: For the minutia-obsessed of us -- can you elaborate a little on where in the system this feature lives? Is it effectively just a % multiplier on an existing base, like an item purchase would be? Or is it some other hidden functionality? Or is it actually a multiplier to the value they get from attack speed items? If the latter (i.e. if it affects the purchase value differently from the value presented), will there be an indicator of what the effect is?
Yeah! Not 100% decided on where the stat will live, but we'll likely put it for the player to see somewhere in this hover-over tooltip: https://i.imgur.com/vBHQATY.png I mentioned this in a previous comment, but I'll copy pasta here since I think it illustrates the change well: As an example, if a rune Rune gives +30% AS: * Previously, the champion gained (0.3) x (BaseAttackSpeed) * Now, the champion gains (0.3) x (AttackSpeedRatio) x (BaseAttackSpeed) For the VAST majority of champions, attack speed ratio will be exactly 1.0, so, nothing will have changed for them. I'm a little unclear on what you're asking, does this answer your question?
: How will this new attack speed scaling interact with some of the new runes (lethal tempo for example)? Would rune sourced boosts to AS work independent of a champs AS scaling (so if they get 30% AS from runes, they'll attack 30% faster), or in line with the champs scalings (so they might get 30% more numerical AS, but won't necessarily attack 30% faster), or something else?
Runes would work the same way items and other sources of bonus attack speed work, kind of like the second way you outlined. To get a bit more into it, if a rune Rune gives +30% AS: * Previously, the champion gained (0.3) x (BaseAttackSpeed) * Now, the champion gains (0.3) x (AttackSpeedRatio) x (BaseAttackSpeed) For the VAST majority of champions, attack speed ratio will be exactly 1.0, so, it will work exactly like it used to!
Naqel (EUW)
: Have you(as in Riot) ever considered just having Attack Speed items give a flat amount of bonus AS. Like, instead of 10%, it'd read +0.12 or something along those lines, and it wouldn't be calculated but just the precise amount of gain from the item.
Yea, that was brought up. We ended up shying away from it for the same reasons we don't do that with such stats as ability power. Consider if instead of blasting wand giving 40 AP, it gave '+40 damage to all your abilities,' or something like this. That would make it a LOT harder to balance each champion around the same item. So instead, items give a stat and champions have a ratio for that stat -- this is true of AP and AS!
: Speaking of weird, semi-invisible "stats" that can greatly influence how effective a champion is, has there ever been discussion about introducing items, effects, or champion abilities that affect a champion's "cast speeds"? I was trying to think of a comparable stat to attack-speed for casters while trying to dream up an enchanter that can support a variety of champions without Marksmen being their obvious companion (damage doesn't quite work, and CDR, while the closest visible comparison, has an entirely different purpose) and thought that "% cast speed" (not missile speed, and not channel time, but only the amount of time the casting animation takes) could be an interesting stat to play with. Is this something that the game's current technology would allow? Would it be balanced for a support to be able to buff allies with, say, + 20% cast speed for 10s? Would it matter?
Hey good question! I believe we have the power to do such things, but typically cast times are set for important reasons. They are tuned around giving opponents appropriate time to react, and kept constant so that both the player AND the opponent can get a feel for how long each ability takes and begin to build a 'muscle memory' of sorts. This allows players to learn and grow in their abilities to react and make predictions, and this is a valuable skill we'd like to keep. So while it's possible, I don't see us doing something like this any time soon.
: How is this going to affect champions that already have weird attack speed adjustments on their wind ups and the like, IE {{champion:429}} and{{champion:412}} ?
This change doesn't give us much more control over how long an individual attack takes to launch, just how many of those individual attacks one can launch per second. So, those champs might still need their black magic.
  Rioter Comments
: Question that's probably more is an opinion than an objective question: I'm looking at how I'm going to build Evelynn post Runes Reforged, and I'm trying to wrap my head around what breakpoints to be looking at to decide whether electrocute or dark harvest is right for me. I know dark harvest scales better into late game, and Eve kinda powerfarms for the first 6 levels of the game so she doesn't use the early game power of electrocute as well as most, but she also kinda stalks around to position for ganks, so only having 20 seconds after a camp might not be enough early. What have y'all found internally? Also: DO SCUTTLERS COUNT FOR STACKING THIS???
Heyo! I'm a designer on Runes Reforged, and also designed the Evelynn update :3 This is a tough question, and we've been pretty split between these runes. I think they are both good, and the better choice will be determined by other circumstances. Evelynn has great synergies with Electrocute since she can proc it really fast with her Q. This allows her to get the snowball rolling quickly, which helps rush her to her powerful mid game. On the other hand, Evelynn also makes good use of Dark Harvest with her E. Lich Bane + Dark Harvest + Runic Echoes = insane damage in the late game. However, as you said, DH takes longer to get going, and isn't especially reliable in the early game. The 20 seconds is enough to convert a gank off a scuttle (yes, it does work on scuttle!) or a nearby small camp (raptors to mid lane, krugs to side lanes) if you hustle straight from the camp to the lane, but Evelynn is more of a opportunistic ganker so this can be challenging. Overall, I think Electrocute gives Evelynn more of what she needs when she needs it (burst damage early/mid game) and while Dark Harvest scales better, Electrocute scales decently enough on its own to be the better choice on average. That said, in games where you expect there to be a lot of kills, Dark Harvest is almost definitely the better pick, since it gives Evelynn a more powerful teamfight presence in the late game and allows her to turn getting a single kill (something she excels at) into multiple (something she is bad at). TDLR; They're both good, but I expect electrocute to be better in most situations, with Dark Harvest trumping it in games with a lot of kills.
: Well, you did just say in an earlier comment that you can limit what spells you can rotate out. Why not just keep Smite out completely initially? Otherwise, we could end up with another Mid smite Ezereal meta. Or Twitch building devourer, or top lane tanks going Cinderhulk. Yeah, the more I think of this, the better it sounds to not be able to swap into or out of smite.
> [{quoted}](name=Paleo Electro,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=4KAg8Y1F,comment-id=000b00010001,timestamp=2017-08-23T23:24:13.591+0000) > > Well, you did just say in an earlier comment that you can limit what spells you can rotate out. > > Why not just keep Smite out completely initially? Otherwise, we could end up with another Mid smite Ezereal meta. Or Twitch building devourer, or top lane tanks going Cinderhulk. > > Yeah, the more I think of this, the better it sounds to not be able to swap into or out of smite. Yeah, there's a pretty good chance we end up doing that for the reasons you outline. We'd really like junglers to be able to take this, though, so finding a balance is going to be tough.
: stashu i stg if you bring back tank ekko we will find you
> [{quoted}](name=LyingOnLine,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=4KAg8Y1F,comment-id=002200020000,timestamp=2017-08-24T00:08:30.350+0000) > > stashu i stg if you bring back tank ekko we will find you It was these hands that killed him. If I bring him back, I'll put my own name on the bounty board.
: Hextech Freezeray is gonna feel really bad to play against as a juggernaut
As a top laner, I sympathize -- I know what its like to be a melee getting trained on by Frozen Mallet Kennen, and it sucks. This rune is an attempt at the healthiest possible version of that. Importantly, the Kennen who takes this will NOT have Fervor Of Battle as they would on live, or any other damaging keystone, so while they get to stick on you a little longer, they'll be doing significantly less damage. Also, the Kennen who takes this will likely not buy Frozen Mallet (since they don't stack favorably), and thus will not be able to permaslow you even later on (this effect has a cooldown, giving you windows where you can couter-attack with your damaging or tank keystone that should give you an advantage in the trade). It's more than likely that the current values are too generous to ranged champions or that the cooldown needs to be longer, but that's the current thinking on why this is fair and -- ideally -- less frustrating than you may think.
: Am I the only person that doesn't like this change at all?
> [{quoted}](name=DarkHalo16,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=4KAg8Y1F,comment-id=003d,timestamp=2017-08-24T00:18:26.431+0000) > > Am I the only person that doesn't like this change at all? Definitely not! Every change we've ever made to the game has met with at least some negative reception, even internally. But please believe me when I say we really, really don't want to intentionally make things that you dislike, we sincerely want you to enjoy the game that we put tons of hard work into. However, there will always be things about League that can be improved, and the answer should not be "don't change that, some people will dislike it!" to everything because then nothing would ever get done. This is not to marginalize you and others who dislike these changes -- I am really, really sorry that you don't like these changes. We strongly believe that Runes Reforged is moving League towards a better future in the long term, and are eagerly awaiting preseason to see how we did. Truthfully, we've been wrong about such things before (Dynamic Queue), and we will do our best to recognize those situations and revert if its clear we went astray.
: Ugh. Freezeray just screams "more cancer for you to deal with, toplane melees!". Doesn't help that it sounds like Akali's just begging for it.
> [{quoted}](name=LyingOnLine,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=4KAg8Y1F,comment-id=0038,timestamp=2017-08-24T00:01:36.898+0000) > > Ugh. Freezeray just screams "more cancer for you to deal with, toplane melees!". Doesn't help that it sounds like Akali's just begging for it. Yeah this is definitely a concern. We have some ideas to mitigate that if it gets too out of hand, like making the slow ramp or decay based on which gives better play for the opponent, or just starting the value very low but scaling it up later in the game when laning phase is over, or just giving it a much higher cooldown early, etc.
: So does the "Active Item Slow" work with damage items that have {{item:3116}} on it? Say for example {{item:3116}} {{item:3152}} would that create the field since you used an active item that made the target slowed? Or is the keystone basically programmed for those actual items that have a slow in them? Just thinking about all the items that have a active slow on it, would be {{item:3153}} {{item:3092}} {{item:3030}} {{item:3146}} {{item:3143}} {{item:3800}} I might be missing a few but I think I got them all. If these are the only items that work with it then it really isn't as well distributed as you said it was. But then again this was an after effect for the keystone, and the main reason for the keystone was the on-hit auto attack slow I guess.
> [{quoted}](name=Dark Nephthys,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=4KAg8Y1F,comment-id=003a,timestamp=2017-08-24T00:06:14.135+0000) > > So does the "Active Item Slow" work with damage items that have {{item:3116}} on it? Say for example {{item:3116}} {{item:3152}} would that create the field since you used an active item that made the target slowed? Or is the keystone basically programmed for those actual items that have a slow in them? > > Just thinking about all the items that have a active slow on it, would be {{item:3153}} {{item:3092}} {{item:3030}} {{item:3146}} {{item:3143}} {{item:3800}} I might be missing a few but I think I got them all. If these are the only items that work with it then it really isn't as well distributed as you said it was. But then again this was an after effect for the keystone, and the main reason for the keystone was the on-hit auto attack slow I guess. You got most of them, the only items you're missing are Cutlass (though, you have the upgrades there) and Face of the Mountain (yeah, that shield slows when it explodes). Currently, it's hooked up only to work with those items that specifically have a slow in them. I can see an argue for the rylai's protobelt interaction, will discuss!
: I think Hextech Freezeray ranged slow ratio is too high for a low cooldown of 8 seconds
> [{quoted}](name=MEWK Dunkprophet,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=4KAg8Y1F,comment-id=000500010001,timestamp=2017-08-24T00:10:19.172+0000) > > I think Hextech Freezeray ranged slow ratio is too high for a low cooldown of 8 seconds Very possible, there's still a lot of tuning to do!
: just make it once per game and we're fine
This takes a lot of the fun and excitement out of it, but limiting the number of uses per game could be a nuclear option if this thing ever gets too out of hand.
Lίssandra (EUNE)
: I'm not really sure about how I feel , but 3 sec CD for a 50% slow is insane , should be 6 seconds at least. I would love to see some new runes for burst mages!
Yeah, that cooldown might not be tuned quite right. What sort of things would you like for burst mages? More burst, or things that help you get to burst, or other rewards for bursting, orrrr :D?
: I like the idea of the Hextech Freezeray, but there's no way I can see Summoner Specialist being in the game in a balanced state. Might be an overreaction, but can you imagine the nightmare it could be if people could change summoners on the fly? Champions adept at running several different summoners (Top laners who can run flash, ghost, teleport, and ignite for example) would become stronger.
Yeah, it's definitely a scary thought. Currently, this hasn't been a problem because they have to base first, so it's never going to happen 'randomly' in a fight. In testing, we've experimented with global chat callouts (5:05 -Riot Stashu has swapped Ignite to Flash!) to reduce this same burden, which is very possibly something we ship with.
: {{champion:245}} A 50% slowing attack every 3 seconds you say? >:) {{champion:245}}
Oh know... what have I done. > [{quoted}](name=Riot jinxylord,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=4KAg8Y1F,comment-id=0022,timestamp=2017-08-23T23:29:28.517+0000) > > {{champion:245}} A 50% slowing attack every 3 seconds you say? >:) {{champion:245}} Oh no... what have I done. *edited know >> no
: Hey, did you discuss adding a rune that allows you to store control wards in your boots?Maybe as a alternative to zombie wards or the activateable boots (sorry i forgot how you called it).I think it wouldnt be too weak or too strong compared to other runes of that category and would be a nice possibility to allow players to store control wards in later stages of the game, instead of not being able to get a component.Other possibilities i would like to see are boots you can activate just like yumuus that grant you a greater amount of movement speed for a little duration, maybe double movement speed for 1 s with a 45 s cooldown.A alternative for the flash rune could for example be a ghost rune that allows you to have kayns e-effect without the heal component on a separate 4-minute cooldown if ghost is currently on cooldown. I would really apprechiate to hear your thoughts on my ideas.Sry for my bad english by the way
The problem you're trying to solve here is a real one. Unfortunately, I don't think a rune is the best place to solve it. Ward slot restriction is a systemic pain that should be solved globally for all champions, rather than on an opt-in basis through a rune.
Ars3lyn (NA)
: would {{champion:516}} be able to abuse the summoner specialist with his passive? cause it not a consumable item. which in alot of can be abusing it if you think about it.
Incidentally, they are currently implemented as consumable items :P ('Potion of Flash on 'D'' is a temp name for one of them). Unsure if this is how they'll ship, but that's a good question. Probably best to keep these only purchasable at base, so we'll probably have to make that happen in whatever way makes the most sense.
Vonler (EUNE)
: I like the idea of affecting potions somehow through runes (currently we have biscuit mastery). I guess such a rune could be considered for the inspiration tree. Just an idea: Potion dealer - player can use health potions on an ally player once every 60 seconds. Each potion consumed increases the healing of the next health potion by 20% to a maximum of 100% increase (150 healing --> 300 healing over 15 sec). Player starts the game with one free health potion. Refillable potion disabled if this rune is picked. To be able to specialize in potions as any champion would be cool.
Thanks for contributing! We also like the idea of hooking into potions, and have tried several different alchemy-inspired keystones that sadly didn't pan out. We haven't tried anything like this, though, and the idea of using potions on an ally is pretty exciting -- some worries about it becoming a must-take for supports, and then also forcing them to sink a bunch of gold into it, but that might be avoidable with some clever mechanics. Really appreciate your time!
: I guess Summoner Specialist will give a big boost to the popularity of the warding Jungle Item, since it's not directly tied to Smite? Or do you think Smite is too important for objective control so people won't swap it out?
That's an interesting decision point. At the least, there will be times when, as a jungler, Baron and Elder Dragon have both been taken, so smite is pretty useless for a while, and Exhuast/Ignite/TP might make more sense, at least for a window. Hopefully, there will be other, less obvious times when it would make sense to switch off smite (like, if their Zed gets extremely fed and becomes the major factor of the game, or if you are snowballing hard as a damage dealer and really need ghost to carry your advantage forward, etc.)
Scopé (EUNE)
: Wait, so having Red Smite or Blue Smite means that I can exchange the spell and still have the jungle item? Or you're going to remove smite upgrades? Because you can't get a jungle item without smite (duh). What if you get one though, and sell it later in the game while not having smite anymore? You have to wait until you can get your smite again?
These are details we have to hammer out, but current thinking is that if you get blue smite, you can still trade out blue smite for, say, exhaust and keep your jungle item (you'll lose access to blue smite, but you'll keep your cinderhulk stats or runic echo proc). As for selling and rebuying the jungle item and that relation to smite... unsure! We'll do our best to give the jungler as much choice and power as possible, without causing weird or arcane optimizations or other game health problems.
: tbh im actually really scared about all the new keystones and the new zhonyas mini item(for assassins with their slow burst nowadays) but lets get back to runes: with this slow thing frozen mallet becomes pretty much useless right? and idk if it doesnt remove alot of counterplay when you chase ppl and im sure supps like thresh want to 100% take this you aa them and basiclly make your stuff unmissable but well lets see how this is gonna play out in preseason and PBE **when** it hits
Yeah, this rune is redundant with frozen mallet, so if you take this rune, you probably won't buy a frozen mallet. Core frozen mallet users will likely choose between taking an offensive keystone and buying frozen mallet OR taking this keystone and buying a different, offensive item. Agree with the skillshot hit-confirming concern, we're currently experimenting with changes to add more gameplay there. Current test: make the slow start realllly small, and then ramp up to a more powerful slow within its last 0.5s or so, giving the opponent more time to react before hitting a small window in which they are unlikely to dodge incoming skillshots. This might turn out to be the wrong approach, but we're confident that we can find a healthy balance here with this or some other mechanical tweaks.
pkcrory (EUW)
: Ok.. so in relation to Summoner Specialist, what would happen if you started the game with smite, bought a jungling item, i.e. get the cinderhulk enchantment, then swapped smite to a different summoner spell? Would the item still give its effects? or would that be disabled?
Currently, there are some... problematic optimizations here around starting with smite, even if you're not a jungler. We'll have to make some changes to address this, but ideally they leave it possible for you to start smite, buy a jungle item, then swap off smite later and keep your jungle item (though, lose your special smite, since you won't have smite anymore).
: So how will it work with Randuin and Glory exactly? See my other comment below: > For Randuin and Glory, it's more complicated since it's already a circular AoE, but I guess a field of ice will spawn at the feet of people slowed by the initial AoE.
Those items will apply the slow effect mod to all units affected. So, in the current model, all units you slow with randuins will have the slow puddle spawn under their feet. We may have to make the AoE slows use a less powerful effect because of the potential high end, but yeah, they'll be included!
: No, no! I mean change the name "summoner spells"! Like as in, the collection of spells comprised of Ignite, Teleport, Exhaust, and friends. _Summoner spells_ is just a bit outdated and feels like a relic.
Ah... while that's probably a good idea, I think that's our of scope for our team here
: Hey Stash these are some super dope Runes, can I ask how you feel these fit into the Inspiration path and what that path is all about. And on a side note, hear me out, you guys should rap about Runes Corner Thoughts?
Here's some notes that we use to describe the purpose of the Path amongst ourselves: INSPIRATION Gameplay: Users seek indirect power through creative tools at the expense of direct damage Audience: Intended to be player type/preference bound rather than function/class bound. This player type is interested in indirect power because it lets them express mastery in novel/unique ways. Note: Nothing in here directly deals damage or grants you damage dealing power. There may be indirect contributions to DPS, like CDR, but nothing direct.
Naalith (NA)
: I see that there is an entirely new alchemy tab in the store in that Bard gif. Are there going to be other masteries besides summoner specialist that utilize this tab?
Unlikely! Trying to reduce complexity and keep the 'rules breaking' component of each rune that does it special for that rune, but that said, it's always a possibility and if it makes the most sense to do, then we'll do it.
: First impressions: * Summoner Specialist is sick. It will be very fun exploring and trying new stuff in the beginning, but I fear it will be crazy overpowered once people (pros, lets be honest) will have mastered its use. You mention in the article that you're "confident it will be balanceable". What gives you such confidence? What are the levers you envision? * Hextech Freezeray is super original, but I'm not 100% sure it's powerful enough for a Keystone, but we'll see when the system is actually released, and the tuning levers are much more obvious. But why restrict it to "item actives *slows*"? Most notably, it means it doesn't work with Protobelt and the Tiamat line, or with Redemption for Supports. Especially Protobelt seems odd not working when Gunblade, Cutlass and GLP all work.
Specialist - We're leaning on the opportunity cost a lot here. From testing, Summoner Specialist users tend to have very tight windows of power, because of how high summoner CD's are. High-level opponents have had a lot of success taking advantage of the windows between cooldowns by forcing fights with their more reliable, lower CD damage/tankiness keystones. Additionally, you have to go back to base to swap spells, so whenever you're on the map, you're locked into the summoner spell pairing that you have and will express the appropriate strengths/weaknesses (for example, if a summoner specialist is rocking exhaust + ignite, then they are VERY vulnerable to ganks, and will lose 1-on-1's to your keystone if you can bait their summoners out). We're also thinking of including global chat call outs to let everyone know when a specialist has swapped summoners, so that enemies can prepare themselves and take the appropriate counter-measures. Lastly, we can always introduce new gates if we have to, like a cooldown on swapping summoners, or if we REALLY have to, we can remove problematic summoner spells from the pool (ie; if everyone takes smite/tp at level 1 with this and we get some weird jungle invade > tp to lane meta, we can fix that) Freezeray - adding a slow to items that don't have them is simply a LOT more pattern warping and much more dangerous. Also, we wanted to limit the number of items that would have this new effect, so that the optimal play wasn't FILL MY INVENTORY WITH ALL ACTIVES! As that can get stressful. Lastly, it just so happened that the suit of active items with slow effects made for a very compelling set, across classes and champions, and made for really meaningful tradeoffs.
: I have to admit that I am extremely disappointed in Summoner Specialist. The 15% cdr on summoner spells is the part I'm talking about, as the current mastery we have that reduces summoner spell cooldowns has led to significant power creep across the board in my opinion. Between blast cones and shorter cooldowns on flash, this was the one mastery I was truly hoping would be removed with the runes rework to cut back on the growing mobility creep.
Understandable, I see where you're coming from. Also, that stat isn't especially strong or exciting. Currently, it's serving an important purpose of making this keystone have a reliable and powerful output. That output can really be anything that fits with the other effect, so I'd definitely like to find something better, but worst case, this will do.
: Does the slow also work on other items like BotRK, Randuins and Righteous Glory?
Yes! whatever effect we land on will be applied to all active items that slow.
: This is so minor but with these changes, and the removal of Summoner's from the lore, is there any chance they might end up renamed in the preseason? I know they're a cool and essential part of League, but I think this is a decent chance to update an outdated piece of nomenclature from the game
Yes! both of these names are very very temp. There's a chance Freezeray sticks, but we'll see!
  Rioter Comments
Landorin (NA)
: To clarify based on what I think the previous poster is saying (and I agree with him): in the current system, AP damage dealers basically have 3 options: Thunderlords, DFT, and Stormraiders. AD damage dealers have 5 options: Thunderlords, DFT, Stormraiders, Fervor, and Warlord's. The runes that have been revealed so far seem to be fairly generalist, which is great, but under the current system there are basically runes usable by everybody, and runes usable by AD only, which basically means that AP damage dealers will always have less options. Just as an example, if something Fervor or Warlord's-esque were to appear in the new system, I'd really like to have them work for both classes of champions (e.g. a version of Fervor that stacks AP with multiple spell casts, or a version of Warlord's that scales off of AP as well as AD).
Yeah that AP warlord's example helps a lot to clarify, thanks. No explicit plans on making something 'AP only,' but we definitely plan on making sure every play style has something for them. Now that you mention it, though, AP warlord's is an interesting idea...
Magisidae (EUW)
: Not sure how much of a fan I am of the active on boots or keystones being an active skill at all. I feel like the rune system should mostly consist of passive effects, while summoner spells take the role of the active effects. I think it's good to have that distinction. Especially because this keystone is basically an out of combat ghost spell or a Youmuus Ghostblade . What I suggest is something more passive. The extra movement speed will activate if you're out of combat and not near any (enemy) champions, perhaps something like Kha'zix's isolated mechanic so it includes minions. This means it will strictly be used for either getting back to lane or for roaming and it would create a lot of stress if you ever went MIA. It could activate at some inopportune times if your opponent plays smart but this makes for some fun counterplay if you manage to pull it off. If you feel the need to, you can always tweak the channel time and the move speed to make sure it won't ever activate in lane. If you do keep it as an active, then I must wonder why some of the other keystones aren't actives as well. Meteor or Berserker could easily be their own active, but you chose to make them a passive effect.
Yeah I get where you're coming from. Reasoning on why this one is okay to be a button press vs meteor or berserk is that those have much lower cooldowns and are in-combat buffs, whereas hunt of the bloodmoon has a high cooldown and can really only be used *before* combat. If meteor were on a button press, the player would have to be thinking about and pressing that button very often, thus making their moment-to-moment inputs significantly more demanding.
: I understand this is a WIP as far as numbers go at this point, so I'll give a little input. I believe that 60 as a level 1 number is to high. You'll get the ability to use the effect at 3 minutes, which is roughly level 2, making it a free spell cast if you step behind your minions for the channel duration. So to help balance out its early game, I believe instead of 60-140 it should be more along the lines of 30-140. As a Trundle player, I see this as is and think "Free level 2-3 kill or force them to base." As Trundle you don't need a starting damage item because of your Q's AD buff which creates opportunities like this.
Yeah this seems reasonable. We've got a lot of tuning yet to do.
: Hope I am not to late for QA. 1) When are we expecting the new rune reforged? Season 8 or Season 9? 2) We have seen 2 aggressive keystones. They are really awesome. Can we see some defensive keystones in the next Runes Corner? 3) So does that mean {{champion:19}} smell an enemy twice??? 4) Is it the old {{champion:19}} in the icon?
1) runes are targeted at this upcoming pre-season! 2) still undecided on what will be next, but we've definitely got some defensive runes to reveal at some point ;) 3) Yes, more or less. This one doesn't tell the player who used it where nearby enemies are like WW does, but it does give the MS to hunt them down if they know where they are. 4) It's the new one, actually :P
jmman (NA)
: Can I make a possible suggestion. It seem a lot of what I have seen are for AD users. I also feel like the mastery's are like this too. (good changes to make tanks ones better) Can we have unique mage ones. I feel like AD has theirs and then we get AP ones that are just as good for ad. So AD will have choices and AP will just get the one that works the best with AP rather than filling a nich role. Thunder lords and DFT are good for casters but AD users are just as effective with them. But then AD can also use the tank ones just as effective but have 2 pretty much unique ones for AD users (something tanks will take them) but at the end of the day AD has vastly more options to deal with situations. It would be nice to have some just for AP users. It sucks how the ones for AP are just as effective for AD its not the other way around. Then tanks can have their sets ones. Maybe its just AD is just too general and can use everything. Possible make some caster or tank only might help.
I feel you here, but a big problem is that nowadays AP vs AD is more about damage type and less about play pattern, and runes focus on play pattern. For example, meteor is a poke rune and Hunt of the Bloodmoon is roaming rune, neither is intended as an AD or AP rune -- there are plenty of both AP and AD champions that poke (Jayce, Varus, Jhin vs Ziggs, Xerath, Lux) and the same for roaming (Talon, Hecarim, Quinn vs Kassadin, Aurelion Sol, Twisted Fate). So we're trying to make the runes work for both AD/AP champs, as long as they fit their pattern. This is why you see runes that scale with both AP and AD. Is there a particular type of pattern or style that you associate with AP users, or casters, that we haven't provided for yet?
: Is each keystone in the current system going to have a suitable replacement in this new system? I cant wait to know what the storm raiders surge replacement is. (also, what about ones like fervor? I need meh kled lvl 2 w cheese :))
I can't speak to this without stepping on the future reveals, but here's a short summary of our view of porting over live keystones: Holistic quality of the system comes first, and there's a lot of value in creating a *brand new* system. This can suffer if 9/15 of the new keystones are extremely familiar. That said, we definitely look to take what people like from the existing system if it has good gameplay and fills a healthy niche. Sometimes, this means porting a keystone directly over and buffing it, other times it means making slight alterations and then porting it to a new keystone, and OTHER times it means tuning it down and making it a new, non-keystone rune in the new system -- we've done all of these things in testing, so expect to see some examples of this down the road!
: yep. as a thunderord 90% all the time user i approve. meteor is ok but i dont like the idea of its design cause its kinda big and may block view site unlike thunderlords which it comes from above and doesn't distract you
Those meteor visuals were temp, stolen from Ziggs R :P. We agree with your concerns though, and are making sure to account for that with the final visuals ;)
: > [{quoted}](name=Riot Stashu,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=hFIemE4p,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-07-19T21:06:01.640+0000) > > C'mon, Darius will love it! does that mean {{champion:33}} can go ***FAST***
: Is this the stormraiders surge analogue? Or will there possibly be another keystone that fulfills a purpose similiar to SRS? I really love stormraiders surge and would hate it if there wasn't a new keystone with a similiar design and purpose
This is not intended to be a stormraider's surge analogue. I don't want to give much more away than that, as we have lots more rune reveals to do and a bunch of stuff is still up in the air, but please do stay tuned ;3
: TL;DR great idea but seems broken Wow, as someone who loves playing assassins, this seems like it gives a player a real leg up. However, for everyone else, this seems **beyond broken**. It essentially gives you both a stronger and free ghost plus duskblade active rolled into one. Not sure what kind of tweaking needs to be done with this to make it balanced, but in its current state, every assassin and nearly every jungler would most likely opt to take this keystone.
Sure it's 'free,' but only sort of 'free' -- we're doing a lot of work to make sure you pay real opportunity costs by taking a given rune (in that you don't get other, different but equally powerful runes). So, when an assassin takes this, they *will have* a powerful haste/nuke combo, but *won't have* access to it nearly as often as other combat keystones and may struggle in lane to other champions who took such keystones. Similarly, tanks who take this will have to give up on some significant tankiness potential, etc. So we're pretty confident we can balance it both by tuning the numbers and by making sure it has weaknesses compared to other runes.
Skias (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Riot Stashu,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=hFIemE4p,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-19T21:37:36.444+0000) > > Yep, I admit, that's pretty scary. I suspect we have some work yet to do on Drakthar, so we'll see what that looks like by the time this rune comes around. At the least, this one will have a much longer cooldown than other runes, so after someone uses it, you should be able to take advantage of their downtime with your lower CD rune. What about a chance of like... taking so much damage knocks you out of "Blood mode" when its up? So you at least have a chance to smack the assassin away if he gets caught? 15s feels like there will be no escaping it even if you CC them.
Yep, this and similar mechanics are under consideration. I like the way you think! We'll see if its necessary, as I'd like to reduce complexity as much as possible, but it's totally an option.
: I remember getting told you guys plan to have about 60 runes at the start, give or take some, how many keystones do you think there will be and also how many from each rune path?
5 paths, aiming for 3 keystones per path, so that gets us to 15! There's a chance some paths end up with more or less, but our target is 3 per.
Penns (EUW)
: Moly 15 seconds, cd is high too tho. Enchanting boots with an active effect sounds interesting, but what about very late game games where you would want to sell them for a 6th item? :o
Probably not worth when you have these bad boys ;). That said, you can use them, sell your boots, and then buy them again in 180s.
: Alright thanks for the answere. If damage runes like this one are balanced for Assassins and Tanks will tanky runes also get the same treatment? As in if the Assassin/ADC takes a tanky keystone to survive longer in fights, will their damage output be hit hard?
yes that's absolutely the plan. It might still be right in *some* rare cases for the ADC to take a defensive keystone, but it should come at a big cost to DPS.
: Is one of the new keystones going to be 'prevent the stupidly mobile champions from killing your squishy, unable to move faster than 375 mage'? Cause I kind of want that.
We'll definitely be introducing a whole bunch of new defensive options that one can take to mitigate aggressive enemy champs. We were even experimenting with explicitly anti-mobility runes for a long time, but found directly punishing your opponents for using their abilities to violate some core gameplay principles, so ended up not going with that. I do believe there is a need for something in this vein, though, so we'll see what we can do.
: This will be pretty cool on kayn, opens up a lot of gank paths with his shadow walk. (Also psh giving credit to the WW icon but no love to the recoloured Rakan particles? )
hehe so you noticed? Yeah those particles are sick, shoutouts to Rakan's dev team.
Show more

Riot Stashu

Level 30 (NA)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion