Dulzara (NA)
: First time posting on the boards since the change from GD. It's not a bad redesign, I just don't like how they work as much, so I don't reply much. However, as a Mord player, I feel this is a big enough thing to come here to talk about. If you really want to change Mordekaiser's play style, I entirely understand that. I agree, a big suit of armor (that is actually one of the smallest models in game still, why?) shouldn't be playing as a squishy one shot mage. I feel Mord, as he was an old champion, suffered from that "where do we go" with his kit design like Sion did. Not as drastically, but obviously the two just didn't mesh well as Riot was a fledgling company. So, fine. We want to change Mordekaiser to a big tanky champion. That's entirely great, except for the following problem: **If a tank has no damage, no CC, and no utility, what is the point of him?** Scenario. Mordekaiser has 9000 health, 600 MR and Armor, and an regenerating shield making him amazingly unkillable late game. We're going to talk about the team fight here: what do you do to this foe? No one can hurt him. But, he doesn't have damage. You don't want him to build full AP, so his damage already will be small. His ult's burst will be mitigated, as he's not building enough AP for it to matter, and DFG doesn't exist now to let him burst. Fine, we don't want him to burst, so he's not a threat in the team fight for damage. However, if you're a tank, you need a reason to be targeted more than the other targets on your team. If you don't have damage, surely you have some reason that the enemy team needs to worry about you. Nope, we don't have any CC. So, he's not a threat to stopping the enemy carry so he can be attacked by your team that does do the damage. Fine; surely he has some form of utility then to help his team out? He has a shield that he can throw on a target that will give some base stats and a very weak aura of damage. And, it looks like with the new changes, a slight speed boost. Great, we're on the right track here, but unless that speed is rather huge, it's still almost pointless to the team. You put it on the ADC, and he's slightly less one shotable by the enemy Zed. (Which why are we stopping Mord from one shotting while that's a thing?) You put it on anyone, and they can run away- for a few seconds. But, if it's only a tiny speed increase, that's again absolutely pointless. So, we have no CC, no utility, and no damage, but we're an unstoppable unkillable machine. What happens? Your entire team dies, and you're left alive. Even if the ADC exists alone, with the power of BotRK and Last Whisper, no amount of tankiness will matter, and you will NOT be able to kill it because you no longer have damage as you didn't want Mordekaiser to build AP. Please, Riot. PLEASE pay attention to this. I know a lot of the forums like to complain about reworks, and a lot of the times, they're unfounded and pointless. But, I still want to believe that you care at least a little about what we think. You have to be careful about how you're approaching this. If you want to change Mord's identity, you need to give him something new to compensate with the removal of damage by design. An unkillable wall that doesn't block something is pointless. An tanky machine without anything to make him actually get targeted is pointless. Give him a taunt. Give him a stun. Give him a slow. Give him something that will make him worth targeting so that identity of a "giant" suit of armor actually matters. If he's not going to deal damage, then he needs something- or you need to give him more base damage and keep him slightly killable. You need to do more than the little bit you're talking here, otherwise we're going to have to wait the massive long period of time it takes to redesign a champion. (And he'll be WAY at the back of the line, as Taric, Urgot, many others need it first.) I'm not saying don't change Mord, or let me one shot people. But please, as one of many loyal customers, at least look a bit closer at these designs. I know you're scared of making Mord the unkillable machine he was that could kill your ADC and then 1v5 your team. But as this rework looks so far, this isn't going to help the removal of an item, but make him even less of a character to play. Thanks. **Edit: I think I came up with a fun sort of mechanic. I obviously can't give numbers that would be balanced, but it would make Mord worth tanking and not just giving him some sort of CC.** If you want him to be kited as a weakness, I can understand that, and that's why you wouldn't give him CC. So, why not tweak his passive and W a bit to interact with something of the following. Mordekaiser is based around being a massive metal tank and 'suffering and draining.' That's what he's been. But, other than his ult, there is no 'drain.' Why not make it that at like 25%, 50%, 75%, 100% shield, Mordekaiser has an aura that becomes stronger. Make it that Mordekaiser drains the stats of nearby champions by being in proximity to them? If he's at 25% shield, he drains .5 AD, .5AP, .5 armor, or such every 2-4 seconds. At 100%, he drains more. I mean, please, I don't know what would make the numbers balanced, but you could balance that somehow, I'm sure. It gives a reason to poke down his shield and then switch back to targets like the ADC, but if you just leave him to his devices, he eventually becomes too strong to handle in the team fight. Or you just become too weak, he doesn't need to take the stats, but it gives him a reason to actually be targeted that doesn't involve a stun, slow or anything, and keeps him "kitable" as you seem to want. It also gives a fresh new mechanic to the field? Feel free to disagree, after all, but I think it's a cool proposition once its properly balanced, and keeps on the theme of giant slow metal man that drains you.
Hi dulzara, I think you have a good point about the problems of Mordekaiser being a tank. Two points to mention here, first one is that seems you didn't take Mordekaiser's ghost into consideration. Image a world that Mordekaiser is tanky enough to survive til the end of team fights, he will have good opportunities to get a ghost and do cool things with it. (Potentially clean up with it?{{champion:119}} ) Second thing is that the goal we said in OP is to make Mordekaiser a fighter/brawler, not a tank. Those definitions maybe not super clear for now, but point is we are not going to make Mordekaiser a tank this time.
: I assume since you're nerfing his burst damage you will decrease his health costs to compensate?
Short answer, yes!{{summoner:31}}
Shíny (NA)
: How drastic are these damage changes? Will this affect his laning and wave clear?
The damage changes will be small, our goal is to reduce his burst potential but remain the prolong threat. I would say his laning will be approximately the same or slightly weaker and his wave clear will be approximately the same or slightly stronger (in lane). But late game his wave clear will be weaker mainly because we are not expecting him to build full damage at that point.{{item:3083}} {{item:3083}} {{item:3083}} {{item:3083}} {{item:3083}} {{item:3083}}
: Any chance that we could see some tweaks to the pet AI? i.e.: Pets being able to attack-move. Pets automatically attacking your current basic attack/single target skill target if they don't currently have a target. Mordekaiser, Annie and Yorick could definitely use smarter pets.
I believe currently Pets already does what you said about "automatically attacking your current basic attack/single target skill target if they don't currently have a target." But I'm afraid the idea of "make Pets able to attack-move" will provide a lot of hidden power(or unnecessary power) for all the "Pets", it is important for player to understand how strong the "Pet" is, especially for those guys who play with/against. Unfortunately this Idea is against that. Right now the minion AI have a problem that after you input any "move" commander they will just "hold" at destination instead of attacking afterwards. I believe this create a lot of frustration and it's something I'm looking into.
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Thales (NA)
: LeBlanc currently has (and has had very consistently) an extremely low win rate in soloqueue across every MMR. I know that win rates aren't the best way to evaluate champion power, but is there something else suggesting she's problematic outside of competitive play? How do you plan to deal with the fact that bringing her in line in competitive play may leave her unplayable outside that environment?
Ban rate and read forums will tell us something. Not making her unplayable outside competitive is also one of our goals, and we are trying out multiple ideas at this moment.
exec3 (NA)
: The LB changes on PBE seem pretty crazy atm. Is this intentional with you guys planning to slowly scale the values back up over time to a decent value (basically testing very low values to see how much they affect her) or did you guys think that she was exceptionally out of line? And since you mention DFG i'll offtopic ask, why does it increase all damage dealt? It's only ever bought as a selfish damage amp so why does it increase the damage from your whole team? The Kayle nerf also seems pretty strong, part of me wonders if this is a case of gutting a champion until a rework is done (she needs one) though I doubt it'll affect her much just like all the previous nerfs because as long as she keeps that disgusting ultimate on that super short cooldown she'll always be super strong.
At this point, we are just doing experimental changes to LeBlanc/Kayle and there is a good chance that we will not release those changes for 4.9. To be more specific, I personally believe LeBlanc's damage is a little too high as she has above-average base damage and very-high AP ratio (3.7 ap ratio for a QRWE combo -_-). Changing the Mimic damage is a good direction to try but we are still trying to find a way to balance her tricky / precise burst while making her fair to play against as I mentioned in the OP. For Kayle, it is not the case you are afraid of. There are high strengths of Kayle and she just needs some real weaknesses. Range reduction would be effective but we are still exploring.
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