: ***
Early external data on Taliyah seems to be that the nerf in 8.12 was pretty impactful, and she's now in a pretty reasonable (though still strong) spot. Will probably wait and see how she shakes out in pro once the nerfs hit there, assuming she is no longer out of line in solo Q as the data seems to indicate thus far.
: Ok so I can pull the build from your match history, but how's the playstyle work? Do you walk up and bully with ap-scaling autos, or sit back and poke with w and Q? Also, what's with the max order? Is it like Q until you can upgrade w, then w, or is it situational based on whether you need poke/waveclear/trading, or what?
You permashove early with Q spam. Can look to trade with Q+auto+aery or will destroy with isolated Q after shoving if they let you walk up. I generally do 3 points in Q for early waveclear then swap to maxing W. Once you have Lost Chapter you're all about spamming W for poke, and you spike once you finish Ludens as DRing or Dseal + Ludens is enough to evolve W. You have to be very careful around levels 6-9 and only poke or followup on your Jungler though, as you will generally lose trades/all-ins unless you poke them a little first. Once you have W evolves you are basically a poke assassin, if you stay relevant in farm your W will do about 50% of squishies HP. So either landing 2 consecutively (the CD is quite low once evolved if you land it and with CDR), or landing it on an isolated target and going in for the Q+ 2 autos for passive proc is almost always a kill. Biggest thing to understand when playing the build is that your W burst when also proccing your passive execute is insane, and will pretty much always kill non-tanks from 60% or lower. Saving your W to followup on CC and pop a target or to surprise kill someone who let you auto them twice gets you a lot of kills from your enemies not expecting the burst.
: What's the funniest bug/unexpected interaction that y'all've rooted out in the past few patches? Weird combos or unexpectedly strong/weak options also count. Also, what's sleeper right now? What should I play if I wanna be too cool for the meta and surprise people with a strong pick?
> Also, what's sleeper right now? What should I play if I wanna be too cool for the meta and surprise people with a strong pick? > I'm notorious amongst the team for my full AP Kaisa Mid, highly recommend that shit is sick.
Regalia (EUW)
: Is there a specific reason why the jungles changes & the marksman changes weren't all shipped on the same patch to gather more data on relevant servers(and use 8.11 as balancing patch) ? And second question why is it impossible now to get 100% crit without overcapping ? Is there a specific reason(it feels really bad as adc to not optimize things) ?
I don't think it was too much of a consideration here, but generally speaking I think it's better if we put large systemic changes on separate patches rather than all on one. Getting to see the isolated effect of each change allows us to better understand it's effects on the game, rather than having to disentangle one systematic changes effects from the other. In terms of the crit chance/optimization, I think this was simply the numbers that got us closest to where we wanted crit ADC power to be (similar to live once you got to your 3 item spike, weaker at 1.5-2.5 items). I can see why it feels bad from a min-maxing perspective to waste 20% crit on a second zeal item, but it is actually more efficient to buy a 2nd zeal item now than on live (assuming you have IE) as previously you got 30% crit from it and now you get 40% (though it does cost 200 more, so this is mitigated a little bit).
: Just a small thing but won't reducing marksman AD at level 1 only hinder them from solo laning and leave them more reliant on their supports early, pushing them towards the bot lane? If not why? Also I'm not sure if this is the place for it but in regards to the latest introduced patch it seems like the change to Runic echoes would make it less useful for most current mage junglers like nidalee, elise, ekko, and gragas who really make use of the roaming potential given by the 7% movespeed and wouldn't really care about the mana especially later on in the game or the small bit of cd reduction especially for tanks that would already cap themselfs on the stat. In regards to {{champion:154}} the AP scaling changes according to my math give him the same burst potential to squishies when using all his Aoe abilities and less to tanks, not to mention a lot less overall sustained damage in a fight (notice though this is a bit less significant early to mid game) and I doubt the changes were meant to be a nerf. Not to mention the extra mana regen and flat mana given will be useless on him and other mage junglers without mana.
To the Marksman AD point, the level 1 AD change in a vacuum should push them more to solo lanes. Assuming all other changes are power neutral (which I'm not claiming they are but lets pretend they are for this discussion), we are increasing Marksman's reliance on levels, as we have compensated for the lower level 1 AD with increased AD per level. Thus if they are at the same power level overall, they now have increased incentive to go to solo lanes, and are penalized slightly for going to a duo lane.
: How many versions has Storm Razor gone through now? Also curious on any internal versions Is this version you guys confident on?
Hey! Answered a similar question here :) https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/teIymOoE-pbe-chat-with-the-playtest-team-811?comment=000e0000
: Hello guys and thank you for this effort you constantly do. I have a question. Regarding the new stormrazor item, can you give a bit of insight on the previous iterations that the item has gone through, on which champions it felt good or bad, when to buy it and maybe possibly the direction that this new iteration is taking the concept? Maybe even if it felt too strong on certain users and if that is why the stacking attack speed was changed. Just general insight on the item and how it has tested up to now, it seems very interesting.
The intention for Stormrazor is to make a first item for crit focused Marksman that feels good as a 1 item spike, but doesn't spike as multiplicatively on 2 items like current IE does on live, thus delaying the Marksman spike until 3 items (Stormrazor+Zeal+IE) and creating a trough during the 1.5-2.5 item window. For a lot of testing we had a version of Stormrazor where your first attack crit for the full 200% damage. This accomplished the goal fairly well, but the build path after Stormrazor was quite awkward it was actually more efficient to build flat AD (BF Swords) than a Zeal item second. This was primarily due to AD obviously working well with the upfront burst of the crit, %crit having anti-synergy with the guaranteed crit proc, and Stormrazor having enough AS in the base stats and passive that AD was generally more efficient in terms of DPS. This led to some awkward inventory's full of BF Swords and Zeals. The item also was quite powerful on AD assassins for obvious reasons (they like Flat AD and upfront burst, even if the AS isn't the greatest). The newer version addresses both of the above issues IMO. By lowering the base crit proc to 160% and scaling it up to 200% with your crit chance, we are simultaneously removing some of the painful anti-Zeal synergy the item previously had and making it a worse standalone item for assassins. The reduced crit power also allows us to shift some more of the raw stats into AD without worrying about assassins too much, which further increases the benefits of building an AS item 2nd.
: Hey, I’m having fun messing with Pyke! There’s a lot of changes right now: the role of ADC, jungling being slowed down, the importance of crab, and a brand new style of Support in Pyke. Do you feel like the role of Support is going to fundamentally change? To me, this puts a lot of additional pressure on Support players to roam and help on invading/defending invades. Or is this an overreaction and the “adc bodyguard” will forever be the primary function? About Pyke specifically: the itemization in the game seems to really let him down at the moment. All his good items are priced for solo laners, and the hyper-efficient Support items like Locket and Redemption just do not work at all. Do you feel like he’s currently in a position to succeed once he hits solo queue, or does something outside of his kit need to change?
I agree there are a lot of systemic changes for Supports right now. I personally think if Supports are more encouraged to roam/ be proactive as you speculated that would be cool, and could potentially help solve the issue of Enchanters frequently being high winrate by making desirable pro play traits more powerful in Solo Q. I think Pyke's itemization is solid. Duskblade is quite a powerful vision control tool that no other support gets to build, and has very cheap components. Hexdrinker/GA/Deadmans Plate are all options to give him some degree of tankiness with decent build paths (though the BF on GA can be tricky). I think he has a pretty solid breadth of options overall (as long as you're willing to build AD/Lethality), and I'm not personally convinced we've identified the optimal build yet with all the Marksman item changes coming.
: ***
I've been liking the Taliyah changes thus far. Gives her more incentive to make proactive plays and interact with champions rather than abusing her exceptional level of waveclear on live. Can't guarantee that they'll be in 8.11, but it's a possibility.
: How is mf with these changes? 😃
I think she's pretty significantly buffed. Having the reverted Last Whisper as essentially an additional target agnostic lethality item is a big deal for her build path. Fleet is also quite nerfed making both poke champions and any champion who already took a different keystone stronger bot, and MF fits both of those (assuming E max for poke). Overall I expect her to be a pretty strong champion after the changes.
Blu 1 (NA)
: Any word on opening bot lane to other roles? Thought that was supposed to be part of midseason
It's still something we're interested in doing, though we don't want to force it too hard. The mana changes in 8.9 were part of addressing this (giving mages more mana at early levels and decreasing their mana per level, making them less level reliant). Marksman changes in 8.11 are the big ticket here, but we'll want to give it some time to soak and see whether or not players feel like it's viable to play non-Marksman as their bot carry. Ultimately we want this to be viable, but we don't want to completely displace Marksman or get other classes there through degenerate play patterns.
Zullar (NA)
: The new Last Whisper is mechanic terrifying. With 3 lethality items assassins will be able to shred 83 armor down to 0... doing true damage. **This is a 29% damage increase vs. squishies compared to live if I did my math right. Are AD assassins intended to be buffed this much?** It seems to me that there should be a clear distinction between squishy killing items (lethality) and tank busting items (last whisper). But on PBE the last whisper is an everything killing item that is great against all targets. I think the decision should be revisited.
I agree this is a meaningful buff to Assassins. Not sure exactly what comparison you were drawing to get the 29% damage increase number, but in practice I believe it's lower than that in most cases. A lot of assassins on live currently build Cleaver 2nd or 3rd after one or 2 of Ghostblade/Duskblade, if they are replacing Cleaver with Last Whisper then they are certainly doing far more than on live, but losing out on significant HP and CDR (similarly they lose the actives/passives of Ghostblade/Duskblade if either of those are replaced, though it is usually more raw damage). I'm in favor of giving assassins this tool personally, as I think we have previously gone too far in making them itemize specifically to only kill either squishies (lethality) or tankier targets (cleaver/last whisper). Giving them a more generalized damage option again will hopefully give them more options in fights, and (fingers crossed) maybe allow them to return to pro play down the road. It's likely we'll have to do followup tuning to some AD assassins as a result of giving them this tool back, but I think the benefits are worth it long term.
Navillus (NA)
: why do you hate spellbook? {{sticker:zombie-nunu-bummed}}
Care to elaborate? What do you do you dislike about new Spellbook or miss from the old one?
: *tries to play new {{champion:99}} , enemy team picks {{champion:105}} , lol didnt go well is all ill say
Keep trying her! Just had an awesome first game with her myself.
: Can you explain how essence reaver will work? Is it all autos during the window or just the first? How is this not going to break champions like master yi and Lucian?
It works on all autos during the window, though it only refunds 20% remaining cooldown rather than full (only 10% off if the spell is 50% off cooldown already rather than the full 20%). I think it's strong on Lucian/Yi, but we haven't found it to be abusive on Lucian in testing. Haven't gotten to test Yi yet, but will do so.
: ^(no single class should dominate a position for multiple years) So Marksmen being the only viable class as bot lane farm position is ok then. Mages are the only class gated by mana lategame. The only class whose usefulness has a limit depending on how many times they **try** to be useful. This changes will not bring back melee assassins to mid lane, this will make marksmen the mid lane meta, again.
I agree Marksman are also a problem. We are looking at them as well, which Riot Axes talked about some here: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/general-discussion/27mrj62T-give-us-an-update-of-whats-coming-this-mid-season-dont-leave-us-in-the-shadows?comment=0005
: One of the more common builds on {{champion:37}} (at least from what I've seen) has been starting{{item:3303}} and then getting {{item:3070}} on the first or second back, since it helps her very mana-hungry play style, but seeing as both of these items are receiving mana sustain nerfs, I feel like she might end up being in sort of a weak state. Are there any plans to compensate {{champion:37}} with some additional base mana regen similar to the other mages?
I agree she is likely to be in a weak state after these changes as one of the more mana hungry champions not getting direct changes. Can't guarantee she'll receive compensation buffs in 8.9, but I'll make sure the designers are aware and we are keeping an eye on her. Thanks for the comment!
Nefas (NA)
: Why are mages - the class that is already the most dependent on skill shots - held to a different standard than others - especially adc’s and ad casters (meaning champs like zed and Yasuo) - when it comes to resources?
There's a lot to discuss about the different ways class/resource systems are balanced in the game. To be succinct here: Mages are generally compensated for having skill shots by those abilites dealing AoE damage, and as a result they have on average the strongest wave clear of any class in the game by a pretty substantial margin. This isn't a bad thing in and of itself, but we've seen for a while now that allowing them this strength while not restricting their resources leads to uninteractive PvE play at high levels via shoving the wave. There are a lot of tradeoffs when it comes to the different resource systems, but the past couple years for mages mana hasn't felt like a real enough resource, and as a result they are not expressing one of their intended weaknesses (limited map uptime via mana pool).
: Have you noticed that most mages aren't really viable anywhere else but mid? I think you've missed the obvious here in that you don't see them played anywhere else. Gee, I wonder why???? I would posit its because mages are already constrained by resources, are very squishy, often immobile, and don't have dps on right click. I don' think you people have thought this through very far at all, and you're removing mages to a point that you would have to redesign every kit to make them viable somewhere.
Swain, Ryze, Cassiopeia, and Vlad have all seen pro play Top this season, so I don't really agree. I do agree that Mages are on the weaker side Support and Jungle currently, but those champions are far more likely to go non-mana builds than Mid laners and as such should be nerfed relatively less by these changes (in the case of Junglers they are buffed from the base stat changes).
Landorin (NA)
: How do the mana changes on the PBE affect mages, in your opinion? I understand the problem they're trying to solve (mindless, cheap waveclear), but it seems like as a whole it will just be a blanket nerf to mages without any real compensation in a meta where I don't feel they particularly shine (to me they feel fairly average). Do you have any concerns that they will be locked into Archangel's/Presence of Mind to function?
While I do expect this to be an overall nerf to mages, it's not necessarily a blanket nerf. Champions who start Dark Seal or Corrupting Potion are strictly buffed before first base, and it's possible some previous D-Ring users migrate to these items as well and are stronger early. After first base I agree it's definitely a nerf, but in my opinion this is necessary for competitive play, and Mages have some room (though not a ton) for nerfs in Solo Q. I do share your concern that mages may just default to Tear builds to continue having effectively infinite mana (Presence of Mind turns on too late and is too conditional to be a big concern here for me). Hopefully the tear nerfs are enough that most champions are significantly punished for doing so, but it's definitely something to keep an eye on.
: Alright, I'll just kick start this whole thing: What are y'all's opinions of the mana changes? How much do they effect mages vs the way they currently play? And do you believe those changes to be for the better?
I'm personally very in favor of the mana changes. Mages have been dominant Mid lane in competitive for multiple seasons now, and their ability to successfully farm out the wave via PvE wave clearing has been a huge component. I think this is a necessary step if we are going to get other classes back into Mid in competitive, which is clearly a win to me (no single class should dominate a position for multiple years). We have been testing some slightly different numbers than what's on PBE now, so I'm not yet confident that the current changes are quite hitting the mark in terms of tuning. Hopefully we can get them into a good spot for 8.9 though and if it turns out Mages are still circumventing resource management afterwards we can do followup further nerfs to the culprit (I'd suspect it'd be Tear in this scenario).
: I have one more question: Did you guys playtest her effectiveness with a low cc and vs a high CC team? How did she feel? Asking since the spotlight vid seemed kinda loaded with cc champs so wondering if there were more "normal" playtests with her and how the Kai'Sa player felt during those kind of games. Spotlight showed: (Kai'Sa/Maokai/Xerath/Thresh/Vi) vs. Graves Nami Jhin Vel or (Kai'Sa/Rakan/Vi/Jax) vs Corki Jhin Rumble Nid Karma (hard cc vs virtually no cc?) or (Kai'Sa/Galio/Alistar/Lee Sin/Nautilus) vs Ashe Graves Syndra Leona Fiora (still not fair) or (Kai'Sa/Taric/Rammus/Shen) vs Ahri Vel'Koz Zac (again...) **tldr:** is she heavily or just moderately ally pick-dependent? (compared to say... Yasuo or something like that?)
Kai'Sa definitely shines when setup by allied CC, and I'd consider her highest synergy Supports to be Leona/Alistar/Thresh, champions that have multiple instances of hard CC to proc her passive and give her opportunities make use of her burst potential in lane. I don't think ranged supports are necessarily bad for her though, as she often just wants to survive lane and the general increased laning presence from a ranged support is sometimes a more consistent way to get through lane than hoping you can find all-ins. Later in the game its definitely nice if you have teamfight CC setup like Malphite/Rakan to followup on, but I'd say she is generally powerful at this stage of the game regardless.
: How do you guys feel about Kai'Sa's snowball potential vs. her usefulness when behind?
She is certainly a much more powerful champion from ahead, as a lot of her Ultimate's power is in making aggressive plays. She has some usefulness from behind, primarily if you go more of a tank busting build via botrk/rageblade and make use of her passive's execute damage to still deal meaningful damage to the frontline. That being said I'd say she's certainly one of the weaker ADC's when behind, as is often the case for any ADC with little or no utility.
: What was the thought process and idea for her ultimate ability, seems like a huge cdr for a dash and a decent shield, how was its impact in playtests?
The reason the cooldown is so long is that when Kai'Sa gets really ahead her Ultimate allows her to be extremely aggressive in forcing fights and playmaking. Once Kaisa gets strong enough to force all-ins on her opponents, her Ultimate can often play out as "dash from 1500-2500 range and kill any enemy who gets CC'd". This is an incredibly powerful snowball tool in these situations, and considering that Kai'Sa also scales quite well, she would tend to just run over games if she got ahead and the Ult cooldown wasn't substantial.
: So what is kaisa's power curve like? (For various builds I guess? I don't know to what degree AP kaisa is a thing compared to on-hit kaisa compared to crit kaisa compared to I dunno what else people might be finding viable.) Is she expected to be weak-ish early, then spike pretty hard mid as she evolves her stuff, and then fall off late? Or is she intended to be a late game monster, or whats her niche? Maybe her early game is actually decent? I have no clue since she keeps getting banned so haven't seen her in action, and it's kinda hard to really get a feel for scaling these days when snowballing is a thing (so you can't tell if it is a strong mid/late or if it's just the lingering effects of dominating early).
You're not too far off on her curve. I'd say she's generally below average early, and very strong both mid and late game. This is generally true regardless of build, though the AP builds tend to be weaker Mid-game, particularly if you are behind.
: Are there any plans on changing Lucian to become a decent pick in the bot lane or new items that could help ad casters? Also, don’t u guys think hyper adc are reaching their power spikes a bit too early into the game?
Would definitely like to buff Lucian Bot. His buffs a couple patches ago were intended to do this (and did to some degree, though he's still weak). The issue is finding a way to buff Bot lane Lucian that doesn't push solo lane Lucian over the top, as he saw significant pro play Mid late last season despite being a sub 50% winrate champion in the role. Odds are he is closer to being viable solo lane than Bot, so we have to be very deliberate with how we buff him in order to make him strong bot and not oppressive Mid/Top. This is why we specifically buffed his crit scaling and reduced some of the level scaling last time around, as these affect bot lane Lucian more than solo lane.
: whats your thoughts on kai'sa. i think her kits inability to lane might make her have a high mastery curve but she might just be weak right now too.
I agree she will have a fairly high mastery curve, but I don't agree that her lane is as weak as people think. She's definitely a below average laner bot, but her Q has a lot of pushing power and subtle optimizations, and when played well she can very often find base timings via her pushing power similar to Sivir. I'd compare her to a mix of Sivir and Lucian in lane, where she doesn't quite have the pushing power of Sivir, but she does have all-in potential when setup by allied CC. She's also fairly strong in matchups with melee supports on both sides, as she can often outshove enemy AD's if they are the only ones hitting the wave and trades tilt heavily in her favor when she has wave advantage due to the power of her isolated Q.
: On a scale from 1 to 10, how much would assassin players enjoy the new marksman champ guy or grill?
I am a longtime Zed main and the new Marksman is probably my new favorite champion so it's a 10 for me.
: Why are we looking into nerfing Kog and not {{item:3124}}, nerfing or changing that, considering Kog and Varus with Guinsoo's? The one item powerspike alone is so large and beyond things, why is the direction going towards a nerf to the champion that isn't really going to fix the problem?
I personally am not in favor of nerfing Rageblade. This and the end of last season are one of the rare times the item has ever been viable in the ADC role, and I personally think it's a cool and interesting item so I don't want it to go away just because it has some top of the meta users. I don't see any reason why Rageblade should be treated any worse than items like IE/Botrk, and those items aren't considered candidates for nerfs just because they have a couple strong users. I think having 2-3 Rageblade users in the meta is pretty close to the ideal state, but Kog/Varus were/are certainly on the strong side, so it makes sense to nerf them rather than hit Rageblade and make it return to having virtually no one use it.
Axerito (EUNE)
: What are your thoughts about Soraka's current state? She feels pretty undepowered right now and outclassed by other enchanters in nearly every aspect. Are you worried that Morello changes will negatively imapct her winarate even more?
While the change to applying Grievous Wounds at all levels of HP certainly hurts, I would actually expect the Morello changes to benefit Soraka as it's now more of a niche item and isn't going to be present in nearly as high a percentage of Soraka's games as previously (when almost every mage bought it). Soraka also heals most in teamfights with her Ult on low-health targets, which were often already getting hit by the previous Morello model. Definitely think Soraka is on the weak side currently though, unfortunately no plans I can share right now.
: How do you guys feel about making changes to marksmen to make them better at sustained damage, while taking away their burst? I know a lot of people have been asking for this for a while. For instance, Vayne's tumble could be changed to add very little bonus damage initially, but multiple tumbles within a period of time would cause it to ramp up.
I think it depends on the champion. While Marksman are in general the premier sustained damage class, I think the class is a lot more boring overall if we shoehorn them all into one strength/playpattern. Things are more fun when we have burst champions like Jhin/MF as counterpoints to the long range auto attackers like Tristana/Xayah. Sometimes there are outliers like Shiv IE Vayne, and we often to look to rectify those (the Vayne nerfs we just did lowering her AD from her Ult, as well as the previous change we made to Tumble that made the bonus AD not apply to her crits).
: Why are Volibear Buffs taking so long. A champion with that much counterplay, should be the easiest champion to Buff without any trouble
Been trying to find the right thing. Ideally we want something more skill expressive for Volibear to help bridge the gap between his high and low MMR performance. We've got something in testing right now that I think is promising, may be able to share it soon!
: Can you guys give us any context for the support itemization removals?
We talked quite a bit about the reasoning in this post: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/xeAEIL6M-changes-to-sightstonesupport-items-coming-to-pbe TLDR: Right now we force Supports to pay an 800 gold tax before starting to itemize for their champion. We don't feel there's a great reason to continue doing so, and hope this allows players to enjoy Support more as a result.
Quackas (NA)
: Hey Players more skilled than I that work at Riot! Was wondering what you thought about the power level of tank supports like Leona, Taric and Blitz in 8.1 compared to their counterparts in the support role. Med or someone posted about looking into a Blitz game-impact nerf which was subjected to a bit of scrutiny on reddit who thought taric and leo were more of an issue. What are your thoughts on this? Also is it wise to be changing individual support power levels just before introducing such a large change to the support landscape (potential removal of SS)? I do agree Blitz is a little too good all-around, I feel that is more Thresh's identity as a Catcher while Nauts is his tankiness as a Catcher and Blitz's (at least in my opinion with the 55th highest Blitz Mastery NA) is his mobility. I feel Blitz would have more of an identity if his W slow was removed (slowing yourself feels terrible) in exchange for a significant loss in durability.
Think tanks Supports are generally strong right now, and it's appropriate to nerf them as a class in some fashion. It's possible that nerfs specifically to tanks followed up by the Sightstone changes leave tank Supports in a poor spot, but tanks seem to be dominant in pro play currently and I think we'd be remiss to not address the situation soon rather than waiting for the Sightstone changes. There's also some benefit to having the Sightstone changes be the only systemic changes to Support on the patch they are released, so we get clear data on the impact of the change as isolated as possible. I do agree that Blitz might feel a little closer to Thresh currently. Playing up his mobility is an interesting idea, but I do think getting in there and getting silences/knockups on crucial targets is an important part of Blitz's teamfighting pattern when he doesn't land a great hook, so I think we'd need to be careful about hitting his durability too hard.
: What do you guys think about Ahri and Kayn these days?
Ahri seems to be in a fine spot for Solo Q. She has an above average winrate with several different keystones. Doubt she will see any competitive play though as historically her winrate has needed to be much higher to see play.
: Hey Playtest team! I was hoping you could illuminate a situation for me! Recently when I see people talking about the state of botlane and Marksmen in general, they typically bring up the biggest offenders, which right now are indisputably MF and Ezreal. However, I also see people bring up Varus in these talks. Now, I know Champion.gg is not the MOST ACCURATE source of data, but from what I'm seeing there, his winrate is actually super below par (at least in plat+), and looking at his rankings in all other stats (not just winrates) he's actually pretty far below average and not looking strong at all. Do y'all think he's that strong right now, because outside of the Big Two, I feel I'm not seeing too many at a crazy power level right now, and certainly not Varus.
I think he is quite strong, though not as strong as Ez/MF. In general I think Lethality Varus is much more powerful in high elo Solo Q/Competitive than plat and below, as pretty much all of his power is in poke and pressuring opponents off objectives. This requires your team to properly play slowly around you and let you whittle opponents down, which generally only happens in high skill settings. If you go straight into fights with Lethality Varus without poking first he's actually awful, so I think this creates a very large disparity between his winrate in lower skill environments, and his power in high coordination settings.
Velasan (NA)
: Hi, So, how does the team feel about Sudden Impact as a rune? It feels like it is rewarding hyper mobile champions for being hyper mobile by doing things they would be doing anyways. There's no build up, or waiting ten minutes, or stacking mechanic to it. Is Sudden Impact being looked at?
I think it's pretty much doing what we want it to. By and large we don't want non-keystone runes to take up a lot of mindshare for the player, so a rune that rewards champions for doing things they would do anyways is pretty ideal. A lot of runes fall into this category. It may be a little on the strong side, but I don't think it's currently an outlier in terms of power. In terms of pattern I think we're pretty happy with it currently.
: Caitlyn and Jhin still seem weak even after the footwork buffs. Do you have any plans for them in the future?
Jhin is seeing pretty substantial play both in high elo Solo Q as well as the Kespa Cup recently, but it's with Comet rather than any Precision keystone as the AD from Sorcery's path bonus is far superior to AS for him. Unsure on Caitlyn. Numbers do suggest she may be weak but I personally think the Fleet Footwork buff was very substantial and she is maybe the best user, so I'd like to wait and see where she settles. In Kespa Cup the AD meta was also dominated by Sorcery primary poke AD's in lane (MF/Varus/Ashe/Jhin), so it's possible Caitlyn is just being crowded out by other champions filling her long range lane dominant niche better than her currently, which may change if we nerf Sorcery for AD's.
: Only just now noticed this....Assuming this isn't too late: Any chance Fiora might be getting any more love in 7.24B? She had the lowest winrate of all the Fervor based fighters in top lane (49/57), but whereas everyone of them buffed in 7.24 had base stat and/or ability buffs, or multiple base stats increased as the case of 7.24B, she only gets.....0.7 base AD per level, about 12.6 AD at level 18 - and she doesn't have a single skill that scales with base damage - they are all based on bonus AD.
There is currently a buff to Fiora's AD per level on the PBE. We feel she's too weak right now, although we want to be cautious about overbuffing her given that we just nerfed Bramble vest substantially, which is what largely put an end to her previous reign of terror.
TomiMan7 (EUNE)
: Hey! Can any of You fine folks look at this thread and confirm if this is a bug or not? I cant seem to get an answer for like 2 weeks now. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/bug-report/M76beHLQ-brand-ultiamtes-bug It involves Brand and his ultimate not bouncing to any target even though there were many valid targets around. In the mean time what are Your thoughts on Brand and Ashe? They are seem to be in a pretty poor state.
Looks to clearly be a bug to me, wasn't aware of this bug personally, thanks for pointing it out. Brand seems to be a bit weaker on Runes, not sure it's enough for us to look at him individually right now. Ashe saw significant play in Kespa Cup with Arcane Comet. We just put in buffs for Lethal Tempo and Fleet Footwork though, so we'll have to see how the ADC meta shapes out after those changes. She may warrant buffs if Sorcery AD's fall off, as I don't believe she's been one of the stronger performers in Precision.
: Any chance that Syndra could see some reverts now considering how badly she is actually struggling(PS It's more than just bug fixes). I personally think her damage is just fine the way it is but it's her lack of reliability that is hurting her the most this preseason. Her Q poke in lane took a big hit from the lack of flat MPEN from runes/masteries, her W is too unreliable now that every mid laner takes celerity but her E seems fine to me once Syndra gets enough CDR and can spawn multiple spheres etc. She should have her most recent nerf reverted entirely with 10% increased AP scaling back on Q, with her E scaling returning to normal, and the possibility of giving her 50 units back to her Force of Will radius.
I agree that Syndra seems to have lost quite a bit of power. I think there are a couple reasons we need to be careful about buffing her however. 1) She was obviously a dominant pick in pro play for almost the entirety of last season, and previous nerfs (such as the W radius reduction) seemed dent her priority but not remove her from relevance. It still remains to be seen just how weak Syndra needs to be in solo Q to not be a pro pick, although the small sample of Kespa Cup seems to indicate we may be there. 2) In general Comet/Aery mages just seem to be stronger than Electrocute mages currently in Mid. Ideally Electrocute would be a strong option for burst mages, and as such I'd expect it to be Syndra's primary keystone. Right now it seems the Domination tree's non-keystone runes just don't match up to the corresponding options in Sorcery for mages Mid, and as a result burst mages are struggling compared to their more poke focused opponents. I think we should probably address this issue and see where Syndra stands before buffing Syndra individually.
: Do you think it's evidence of balance issues with runes that klepto was her best choice, not aery? I mean you'd expect aery to be her best choice even though she likes sheen effects given that it amps both her attack and defense. overall I wonder if klepto is too much of a stat driven mastery in that if a champion can use it well it just gives them a lot of free gold and stats over their opponents
This is tricky for Klepto, but I'd say it's ultimately not really a balance issue and somewhat our intended pattern for the rune. The goal of the Inspiration tree in general is for it to offer unique playstyles that challenge you to optimize them in unconventional ways. As such we don't want the Runes in the path to be too generically powerful, i.e we'd prefer that they be powerful when you pick them in the correct situation and weak in the wrong situation, rather than be generally average or strong. How this paradigm fits into Klepto means that there's a strong chance it is (and should be) the optimal choice for several champions who can best make use of it's paradigm. If we are trying to reward you for taking an Inspiration Keystone, and this Keystone revolves entirely around being able to cast a spell and auto, there wouldn't be much strategic or tactical gameplay to it if it's best users aren't getting significant reward for it. Ideally you are rewarded for taking this Keystone both on the champions who use it best, and against the champions who can punish you least for frequently auto attacking them (should be viable in solo lanes as a ranged champion against some melee). Sona and Ezreal seem to be 2 of the clear cases who best fit the paradigm in practice, and since this is the lone requirement we are imposing on synergy with the Keystone, the remaining way we could make it stronger/weaker for them specifically is to adjust the loot table to give items that are less appealing to them. This is something we are thinking about, and it's possible we'll make more changes to how the loot table works going forward. Nothing planned on that immediately though. To ultimately answer your question, it seems Sona is one of the best pattern fits for Klepto. Given that Inspiration Runes are supposed to sharply reward or punish you for optimizing (or failing to) around them, I think it makes sense that Klepto would outperform Aery on her.
: I'm sure you guys are going to be asked this question alot, but reading through the comments, I haven't seen an answer or comment on it yet. Can you give us some kind of rationale behind why Sona needed the additional nerf, and why she's going to be getting yet another indirect nerf in the next patch? Her winrate dropped considerably after the first nerf, and it made her so much easier to punish in lane that she wasn't just a lane bully anymore. But then you tack on the Aery nerf, the Q bonus damage and mana cost nerf which are currently live. But it doesn't even stop there with the direct nerfs. In the upcoming patch, she's getting hit with a round of indirect nerfs via the flat AP from Sorcery+Inspiration and the shield/heal strength from Forbidden Idol/Ardent Censer/Redemption. I guess what is making so many of us so upset is that none of the other champions were handled this harshly. Even Leona and Miss Fortune, who both have great winrates right now. Leona got a minor 20 damage off her TANK ability. Miss Fortune hasn't had any nerfs. Sona got an immediate hotfix, followed by 2 more rounds of nerfs. And like so many other players here who try to be supportive of the decisions that Riot makes, I'm desperately trying to understand why this is necessary. Why is this champion being gutted? Why is Forbidden Idol being hit, when the tank supports are the most successful right now? Please, can you give us any insight?
Sure! Even after her previous nerfs statistically Sona was still a pretty big outlier. While her overall winrate was no longer insane, she was basically dead even with Leona and Taric for highest winrate in the role by our numbers, so she was certainly still very powerful. If we go beyond overall winrate and go to winrate with their best keystone however, there was clear evidence that Sona was still too strong. Her winrate with her best keystone (Kleptomancy) was over a full percent higher than any other Support, and was in fact the individual highest winrate Keystone/Champion combination at any role in the game. I think these numbers indicate she has substantial room to be nerfed and still be a solid, even if no longer strong, champion.
: Any insight about Pen in preseason? Do you guys think it is in a good spot or over/undertuned? Also, what is the current state of Yasuo as his winrate keeps hovering around the 46%.
I think Mpen items are very strong currently due to the loss of MR blues (which we didn't compensate but we did compensate armor for many champions). Considering Liandries was already the standard 2nd item for mages last season I'd expect Liandries to be too strong currently and we'll need to nerf it most likely in my opinion. Drawing useful information from item winrates is very difficult though so we'll have to wait and see on this until pro play. Yasuo seems a little weaker than pre-runes. Not sure where your 46% number is from but our data shows him in the 47-48% range across Mid/Top. Maybe a little weak but I don't think enough so for us to look at him right now.
Shieldy (NA)
: How do you feel about Poppy's current state? She was really struggling before runes were released and I don't really feel like she's doing much better, especially with the state of things like sunfire cape and what not. If you were to look at her I'd suggest things like upping her shield to 4 seconds and *possibly* making her snapcast a knockup but lowering the duration to 0.75 seconds to keep it balanced, as these parts of her kit feel really clunky and unsatisfying to use imo. Though I could be wrong about all of it, what are you guys' thoughts?
Statistically she actually rose quite a bit with Runes Reforged. She's probably still a little on the weak side but it appears there are quite a few other Top laners who are hurting more than she is. I haven't played as or against her myself recently though, so this is just looking at the numbers. Presumably she will get some small benefit from Aery nerfs resulting in her getting bullied less in lane as well. I don't think she's on our radar for buffs currently, but that could change and it has been a while since she was strong.
: {{champion:41}} {{item:3092}} and new runes r stupid broken! u guys should take a look at it! he gets unkillable with this combination.
We actually did test this a couple times before Runes came out. It is certainly an exceptional amount of gold generation, but you lose the ability to take AD for early lane from your adaptive set bonus. I think the optimal way to make use of this is probably to take Kleptomancy and splash Resolve so you have HP and are tanky enough to just farm out the lane and outscale. I personally think this build has a lot of potential, particularly into soft matchups that can't really punish you for your lack of early laning power with the build. It's yet to prove to be a balance problem on live though, so for now it's just a cool build we have an eye on.
: Hey guys! How is it goin? :) {{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}} I know, i know, i am repeating myself and i am really sorry for that: Some Gameplay Thoughts ago, i asked Meddler about his thoughts on {{champion:62}} . What do you guys think about his performance with Runes Reforged and, most importantly, what do you think about his kit? Especially his passive is outdated and a little bit boring, to be honest. I really hope we can see some kind of modernizing to his kit in this year :) Greetings from germany!
Wukong is performing quite well currently. Him performing well isn't necessarily a problem, but when it's with his current play pattern of one shotting people with his point and click combo + Electrocute, it's concerning. We're definitely keeping an eye on him currently. I personally agree his kit could use some love, but I don't know of any plans for him currently.
: So Specifically in regards to the adaptive damage you gain passively from sorcery/domination... On a champion like Jhin, I really wanted to start one one of those trees, becuase it seemed like they had the most to offer. After all, I want to start with AD, not attack speed. But becuase it's adaptive, I feel as if I cannot start Doran's Ring anymore, becuase the runes think I need early ability power instead of damage. Was this an intentional descion (so that it's like a risk/reward deal with early mana sustain or early damage), or something which flew under the radar? {{sticker:cass-cry}} Also RIP my early game lethality Ez mana sustain (perhaps that's for the better)
This is an interaction we were aware of. The goal with adaptive is for it to smartly give you the stats your champion wants or even support off meta builds by reacting to your item choices. For example while it's hurting Jhin here in the case of things like AP Varus or Ezreal it'd be a benefit, and it reacting to your items even allows you to do things like start with AD for early lane on them and then having it swap to AP after you buy a full AP item. Jhin definitely gets the raw end of the stick here for his D-Ring start. The build was a fairly recent development for him and he does have mana options in the system, but if this build is something players are actually attached to (it seems you are one of those players!), we can consider alternatives. One possibility for instance is that we set a certain threshold of AP you need to buy before it swaps over for Jhin, so his stats would stick to AD until you bought at least 40~ AP or so. Thanks for the feedback and I'll make sure this is kept in mind.
: What keystone do you guys think works best on shyvanna. Lethal tempo,press the attack, glacial augment, or do you think there is a better one then those 3 Also what keystone do you think most marksmen will take if press the attack and. Lethal tempo weren't options
I think Press the Attack and Glacial Augment are both quite strong. I personally favor Press the Attack, the fact you can basically instaproc it with your Q auto reset is pretty dirty, and she makes great use of the AS from going Precision (although you can still get this with Glacial if you splash Precision). I think Fleet Footwork is being slept on for AD's currently, and is a viable option even with PtA and Lethal Tempo. We've also found Glacial Augment to be decent on longer ranged AD's like Cait/Kog. And it looks people are finding success with Aery on some AD's as well.
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