Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 9
Lightning dragon -> give attack speed and cdr beyond the normal limit (like the cdr mastery does). i'll let you work the numbers.
Meddler (NA)
: Current Thoughts on Marksmen
I have a question i couldnt find any answer for. Why does MF have the lowest AD/lvl off all the champion? As a marksman, i feel that shouldnt be the case ?
: You can still open the legacy client and you'll be able to use it until the alpha and open beta complete.
Until the alpha and open beta complete ? what happen if we need to update our item sets after that ? Btw, I currently have a problem where i can update and use the new item set in-game started from the legacy client, but it used my previous one when i start a game in the alpha one.
NoPaxt (NA)
: The NA support meta...
pretty good and innovative counter pick, but i dont really expect it against skt.
: Daily Reminder to look at patch notes
more like, reminder that tomorow you shouldnt be playing ranked.
Rioter Comments
: > So why have champions that counter champions? Why have CC? Why have Raw Damage? All of these things counter something. Mostly because there's a difference between soft and hard counters, being effective versus something and completely negating it. QSS tends to index too hard on complete negation.
> [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FJb6w1gc,comment-id=0006000100090000,timestamp=2016-04-21T04:14:38.821+0000) > > Mostly because there's a difference between soft and hard counters, being effective versus something and completely negating it. QSS tends to index too hard on complete negation. Do you think that dueslist-like marksman like Quinn and Vayne will still be able to duel champions like zed ?
: 2016 World Championship hits North America
> [{quoted}](name=Anonymous,realm=,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=m3IxYZdP,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-02-16T23:57:03.812+0000) > > We’ll be bringing top teams from around the world directly to **North America** to face-off for the Summoner’s Cup. The 2016 World Championship starts with the Group Stage in San Francisco, before moving to the Quarterfinals in Chicago, and then onto the Semifinals in New York City. For the epic conclusion of Worlds 2016, we’ll return to the Staples Center in Los Angeles to crown our new World Champion. Should had just said U.S. if you arent including any other NA country lol....
: > [{quoted}](name=YCitizenSnipsY,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=ONFI3QVE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-02-17T03:35:17.837+0000) > > Where could you host it in Canada or Mexico that could get the kinda of turn out they would get in San Francisco, Chicago, New York, and Los Angeles? Well Toronto could easily do that and Vancouver would also probably be able to.
> [{quoted}](name=A serial feeder,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=ONFI3QVE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-02-17T03:44:22.500+0000) > > Well Toronto could easily do that and Vancouver would also probably be able to. And i think Montreal would be good as well. Toronto being easily the best of the 3 suggestion. I don't understand why Canada never get anything. At least Don't pretend its hitting "NA" if it doesn't visit more then one country.{{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}
: Requiring a player to get 2 visas one for CA and one for US isnt an issue. They had to get multiple visas last year for Worlds in EU.... There is literally no excuse for not having an event in Canada.
Also previously when world was in Korea, group was in other asian countries. There is no reason why visa for only 2 countries should matter, and cities like Vancouver, Toronto or Montreal are big enough for at least some of group stage.
: Come to Toronto
I read the title and saw" NA" hoping at least one city in Canada would have some group stage or something...
: I don't understand why this is either/or. Why does team builder have to be removed to implement this game mode?
with how the new champion select works, why would you want to play TB?
: Unfortunately I am probably not qualified enough, although I will definitely try. There is no harm in applying, right? Thanks!
Just do it! Have some faith in yourself!
: Does anyone know if you get tresh with the skin or do you need thresh?
you get thresh as well with the skincode
darkdill (NA)
: So... Apparently getting Cull as your first item is "wrong"
You get that item only if A) 100% sure you will lane B) lane swap
: Wow this is really awesome, thanks a lot
> [{quoted}](name=Angelofchaos16x,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=9jqulyR4,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-28T20:50:07.624+0000) > > Wow this is really awesome, thanks a lot also, if i recall correctly, Iron Stylus also mentioned he had this very picture as a source of inspiration, somewhere on his desk. Would need time to find the exact quote (if i'm right), and can't confirm if it's still true after 2 years. Maybe your thread will bring attention to this again, and they could tell us more about it, if its still in the work :)
: 4 real ? I'll take your word for it, but if you could post a link to where he said that, it would be awesome
> [{quoted}](name=Angelofchaos16x,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=9jqulyR4,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-11-28T18:51:58.319+0000) > > 4 real ? I'll take your word for it, but if you could post a link to where he said that, it would be awesome http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/ZiNiHLGK-ironstylus-regarding-caitlyn-vu?show=flat&comment=0005000000000000 Its 2 years old, but I still remember that discussion. Understandably, there is some champions that come higher in the priority list for VU still, but hopefully it can come soon :). This is a fan concept that was posted at that time : http://imgur.com/PSwiRhL
: Blind pick exists.
> [{quoted}](name=Photos of Ghosts,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IUqeBK9x,comment-id=00240000,timestamp=2015-11-21T17:46:30.406+0000) > > Blind pick exists. while i can understand this being frustrating, i dont think the game should be balanced around any other game mode then draft pick (basically the ranked game mode). + you are willingly leaving yourself to get either a good or bad matchup with blind pick, so i dont see how that's an issue either. just unlucky.
Albion (OCE)
: Playing a mage into Yasuo is really fun
> [{quoted}](name=Albion,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IUqeBK9x,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-11-21T12:21:09.360+0000) > > Ever tried playing {{champion:99}} {{champion:61}} {{champion:134}} into this guy? > > Between his shield, wind wall and dashes it's near impossible to harass him. And even if you do, he just takes Feast, the 2% life-steal mastery and {{item:1055}} and can be full health after a wave of minions. There's no downtime between him windwalling your abilities, shielding your abilities, dodging your abilities or healing off minions. > > I don't know why he's allowed to have such a good laning phase (resourceless, mobile) combined with one of the best assassin late-games. > > At least you can buy {{item:3157}} {{item:3139}} for Zed, nothing stops Yasuo ulting off his team's knock-ups and hitting you for 1800+ damage with Q+AA. have you tried something different ? maybe its an issue with your champion choice ?
Croanin (NA)
: Why the Hell is IEM Being Played on 5.21!?
Because IEM hardly matter as a tournament. From the get go, its preseason patch, team are voted based on popularity rather then qualifying, some teams recently got team overhauls/player swaps, etc. Also its about the only time any non-riot official tournament can take place any big name teams, since everyone's regional last about all year long. It will still be entertaining, just not much valuable in a competitive point of view.
The Fast (NA)
: The issue is that a lot of mages don't WANT ionian boots. ADCs reach 40% really easily even without any investment from runes, while mages, who are spellbased, have to put everything into reaching the cap. ADCs can reach 40% without impairing their lategame builds, while mages have to give up boots, rely on a buff, or build suboptimal items like WotA or Lich Bane.
> [{quoted}](name=Knight Kore,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0sTQ3AsL,comment-id=001a000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-18T00:21:17.653+0000) > > The issue is that a lot of mages don't WANT ionian boots. ADCs reach 40% really easily even without any investment from runes, while mages, who are spellbased, have to put everything into reaching the cap. ADCs can reach 40% without impairing their lategame builds, while mages have to give up boots, rely on a buff, or build suboptimal items like WotA or Lich Bane. huh what? going cdr boots is much worst for adc then mages lategame, and when you have void, the mpen from boots doesnt matter as much, as maybe getting 1 more spell on with cdr boots imo. + dont forget it also reduce cdr on summoners and thats always great late game (think about having your flash, tp, etc more often late). I'm not sure what mage you are talking about tho? mages that want cdr but not from their boots ? I suppose they want the flat pen ? i would think that a lot of them can actually afford to go cdr boots ->morello/athene->void. As for ADCs "easily" reaching 40%cdr, well first i think 30% as on an ADC is far far more valuable then 10%cdr. Yes ER gives 10->30% cdr, but you need at least zeal to get to 30% and thats really a lot of gold already. Triforce isnt good on a lot of AD, even those that get ER. After those i dont see too many ghostblade at this point (LW or LS items become much more needed), maybe some Death's Dance, but its kind of a situational item, and not a go to. And even after all this only a very few of them actually would like to have that much cdr to begin with. So yeah in a way they can reach 40%, but its not that simple and they do give up a lot for it. I would even argue that cdr boots scales better for mages then mpen. i think its fair to assume you will get most blues in most of your games, and the reliance on it means different powerspike/slot efficiency/balance, so i dont think its wrong to consider it. I think Will is really undervalued, and lichbane is still nice, while not great on a lot of champion. Alternatively, i'm not sure what you guyz would want ? 100 ap cdr item ? that sound like a possible must buy for a lot of APs, and kinda ruin the current optional path of mages builds.
: > CDR boots on ADC means they lose a lot of AS compared to before the changes, 30% is a lot. I'm sure most ADCs, if not all, want to keep their zerkers. And most mages want Sorcerer's Boots for the flat 15 Mpen. They lose a lot of damage if they go CDR boots (especially against squishies who don't have much MR -- that 15 Mpen can easily mean 8-12% more damage). Blue buff is, as you said, conditional. I wouldn't count that towards a reliable CDR cap any more than I'd count it as a reliable source of mana regen. > replace zeal for a codex, ER for Morello and you have 40% cdr for 1450 less gold (thats like a large rod + pink + potions). Again, that's only 30% unless you're still counting Sheen, which does not make sense as a CDR item on most mages. You're basically arguing that you can create a set of slot-inefficient items that will give a mage 40% CDR. That may be true. Hell, you could grab four {{item:3114}} for 2200. But that's horribly slot-inefficent. There just isn't a very slot-efficient way for a mage to grab 40% CDR anymore. Even your CDR boots and Morello also requires some other item. Okay, you could grab codex, what are you going to build it into though? A {{item:3092}} ? {{item:3152}} ? Those items are pretty niche -- WOTA is bad on most champions (and it's worse than new Gunblade), and Frost Queen has nice mana regen but you already have mana regen on your Morello's. 250% mana regen is a waste. Contrast this to Essence Reaver + Zeal and Sheen, which may appear to be as inefficient (after all, it's 3 items)... but Zeal and Sheen will upgrade into Trinity, which is just one slot, and you still have four left to build boots, more damage, or survivability. ER Zeal and Sheen gives an ADC: 65 AD, 40% crit chance, 40% CDR, 5% MS, 15% AS, 250 mana, Spellblade passive (which ADCs can use), and Essence Reaver mana regain passive (which ADCs can use). Sheen, Codex, and Morello gives an APC: 105 AP, 40% CDR, 100% mana regen, 250 mana, Spellblade passive (useless on most mages), annnnnnnd a situational GW passive. Since AP is already cheaper than AD (1 AP is worth 70% as much gold as 1 AD), the mage is losing out in this deal in raw gold efficiency, but also in slot efficiency, because that Codex won't upgrade into anything useful.
> [{quoted}](name=Kitten of Evil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T9JHVmZv,comment-id=000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-17T17:36:42.460+0000) > > And most mages want Sorcerer's Boots for the flat 15 Mpen. They lose a lot of damage if they go CDR boots (especially against squishies who don't have much MR -- that 15 Mpen can easily mean 8-12% more damage). > > Blue buff is, as you said, conditional. I wouldn't count that towards a reliable CDR cap any more than I'd count it as a reliable source of mana regen. > > Again, that's only 30% unless you're still counting Sheen, which does not make sense as a CDR item on most mages. > > You're basically arguing that you can create a set of slot-inefficient items that will give a mage 40% CDR. That may be true. Hell, you could grab four {{item:3114}} for 2200. But that's horribly slot-inefficent. There just isn't a very slot-efficient way for a mage to grab 40% CDR anymore. Even your CDR boots and Morello also requires some other item. Okay, you could grab codex, what are you going to build it into though? A {{item:3092}} ? {{item:3152}} ? Those items are pretty niche -- WOTA is bad on most champions (and it's worse than new Gunblade), and Frost Queen has nice mana regen but you already have mana regen on your Morello's. 250% mana regen is a waste. > > Contrast this to Essence Reaver + Zeal and Sheen, which may appear to be as inefficient (after all, it's 3 items)... but Zeal and Sheen will upgrade into Trinity, which is just one slot, and you still have four left to build boots, more damage, or survivability. > > ER Zeal and Sheen gives an ADC: 65 AD, 40% crit chance, 40% CDR, 5% MS, 15% AS, 250 mana, Spellblade passive (which ADCs can use), and Essence Reaver mana regain passive (which ADCs can use). > > Sheen, Codex, and Morello gives an APC: 105 AP, 40% CDR, 100% mana regen, 250 mana, Spellblade passive (useless on most mages), annnnnnnd a situational GW passive. > > Since AP is already cheaper than AD (1 AP is worth 70% as much gold as 1 AD), the mage is losing out in this deal in raw gold efficiency, but also in slot efficiency, because that Codex won't upgrade into anything useful. you see this is part of the arguement i simply cant get. before the mastery/item changes, the diffrence was that mages could get 5% from mastery 15% from boots 20 from mana item. now suddently cdr boots are not good anymore (when they are arguably much better, 5% cdr for 10% summoner cd, is really good). Is it because now adc finally have access to cdr items ? i simply dont know. all i know is that the mastery is still there, just in another place and cdr boots are still very effective on champions that want to use their spells frequently. How i see it, is that mages have the choice between an early game effective pair of boots (sorcerer) vs a more late game focus one with ionian boots. I was actually still counting boots, as your example is ER-CDR boot-zeal. just to be clear Ionian boots-morello-codex And honestly, i dont see ER-triforce as a good build anyway. yes on paper its sound nice and all, but its cost a lot of gold, while this patch is all about giving adc more power early game. hell if you put all the stats here it does sound nice, but then you realize that ever other zeal item give 10% more crit chance, that realistic the difference between 30% et 40% CDR is not that noticeable specially on the auto-based role, the other zeal item all have at least 15% more AS, you dont buy triforce for the mana/hp, an overall you could get more from that gold going another zeal item + other stuff like lifesteal or armor pen. Your math doesnt take in account the gold differential, mine did. As you can see in my previous reply, you end up with the gold for a lot of other items, which can be more effective as a power spike. And as we all know, APC scales with lvls, ADC with gold (part of the reasoning behind the current lane configuration). So I think its more expected that 6item ADC scale better then 6 item mages (note that doesnt mean one is necessarily stronger then the other, for example 6 item ryze). I agree that lichbane is not always great on some APs, but i think Will is still better then what people think. its certainly not worse than gunblade for APs, its like 1.1kcheaper and you get 10% cdr instead of 40 AD and the slow ability (which doesnt refresh faster on hit anymore). I can see it be an alternative, since there seem to be a huge focus on having your spell up as often as possible (more spells = more healing via Will). Otherwise in the grand sceme of things, it might also just be that the game is balanced so that mids only get to 40% with blue (honestly midlaners should have it more often then otherwise in most games). as of now, i just dont understand why CDR became an issue because ADC have gain access to it.
runedara (NA)
: Part of the problem now crit is lifesteal with the keystone.
> [{quoted}](name=runedara,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T9JHVmZv,comment-id=00000000000100020000,timestamp=2015-11-17T23:14:21.797+0000) > > Part of the problem now crit is lifesteal with the keystone. it got hotfix so it only work on champion. i think frevor is overall better now for ADCs
Odinakos (EUNE)
: Diana is def not aa based. It helps her(specially while jungling) but it is not her focus. Her burst and dive are her main traits. Exept if you go some crazy bruiser AA build and Nasus asks wtf is moonsilver blade that did 50% of the damage. Hue!
> [{quoted}](name=Odinakos,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T9JHVmZv,comment-id=00080000000000000001,timestamp=2015-11-18T01:22:30.042+0000) > > Diana is def not aa based. It helps her(specially while jungling) but it is not her focus. Her burst and dive are her main traits. Exept if you go some crazy bruiser AA build and Nasus asks wtf is moonsilver blade that did 50% of the damage. Hue! that's why i said even diana, its not really her thing, but still part of her kit is autos to proc her passive. just like ezreal is more about Q damage then autos.
: Not always. It's the jungler who decides who gets it unless you want to try to steal it. Had a Rek'Sai that took damn near every blue in a game for some reason. Guess she wanted the CDR.
> [{quoted}](name=Vincent Lucius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FIYBYk87,comment-id=002e0000,timestamp=2015-11-18T18:18:03.955+0000) > > Not always. It's the jungler who decides who gets it unless you want to try to steal it. Had a Rek'Sai that took damn near every blue in a game for some reason. Guess she wanted the CDR. may happen, but more often then otherwise mid lane should get it.
: you forgot THEM {{champion:81}} {{champion:110}} {{champion:21}} And she like the mana on crit {{champion:222}}
> [{quoted}](name=labarso,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0sTQ3AsL,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2015-11-17T14:40:22.620+0000) > > you forgot THEM {{champion:81}} {{champion:110}} {{champion:21}} > > And she like the mana on crit {{champion:222}} I'm sure jinx and miss fortune rather have IE. more Crit dmg on AoE rockets is way better then cdr and mana. MF ult can crit now, and its not like Q cost that much.
: Morello and CDR boots only gives you 30% CDR, so you would also have to take 10% from runes. Unless you're counting Sheen as an AP item still, which is weird since it gives no AP and an auto-attack boost, something that's useless on 90% of mages. While we're at it, if you're counting CDR boots in the "ap version" why not also count it in the AD version? AD champions can use it too. {{item:3508}} {{item:3158}} {{item:3086}} there. Saves you 250 off the Sheen.
> [{quoted}](name=Kitten of Evil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T9JHVmZv,comment-id=0000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-17T16:02:48.843+0000) > > Morello and CDR boots only gives you 30% CDR, so you would also have to take 10% from runes. Unless you're counting Sheen as an AP item still, which is weird since it gives no AP and an auto-attack boost, something that's useless on 90% of mages. > > While we're at it, if you're counting CDR boots in the "ap version" why not also count it in the AD version? AD champions can use it too. {{item:3508}} {{item:3158}} {{item:3086}} there. Saves you 250 off the Sheen. CDR boots on ADC means they lose a lot of AS compared to before the changes, 30% is a lot. I'm sure most ADCs, if not all, want to keep their zerkers. Also most mages are midlaners, who get bluebuffs. thats +10% cdr, yes more situational than items, but 10% that he should have more often than other lanes. 250 gold saved off sheen doesnt mean much when ER is 3600 gold and need at least zeal to get to 30% cdr, while athene/morello are 2800/2550 (morello being over 1k cheaper and still give you grieving wounds and 80 ap). replace zeal for a codex, ER for Morello and you have 40% cdr for 1450 less gold (thats like a large rod + pink + potions). If you consider blue buff into the equation, you can save 800 gold for that codex and get something else instead (you would be saving 2250 gold, thats almost an abyssal/void staff/will, or the component for ludens/hourglass/etc)
The Fast (NA)
: Yes, but you are forgetting that Essence Reaver is also a top tier damage item, alongside being a CDR and mana regen item, and also give ADCs more DPS alongside more burst damage. Mages going for 40% CDR now have to spend buy 3 items, giving up their burst boot option, and buying subpar damage items.
> [{quoted}](name=Knight Kore,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0sTQ3AsL,comment-id=001a0000,timestamp=2015-11-17T16:02:59.862+0000) > > Yes, but you are forgetting that Essence Reaver is also a top tier damage item, alongside being a CDR and mana regen item, and also give ADCs more DPS alongside more burst damage. Mages going for 40% CDR now have to spend buy 3 items, giving up their burst boot option, and buying subpar damage items. 65 ad is not exactly top tier. IE is still more dmg for a lot of ADCs because of the crit dmg. ADC also need 3 items to get 40% cdr, and you have to consider that most mages are mid laners and they wil lget blue buff for 10% cdr as well. morello + boots +bluebuff gives you 40%. And its not like they recently removed any CDR on ap items as far as i remember, so i dont see the issue here ?
: But all mages are more casters than auto-attacks. Well except for maybe TF and Fizz.
> [{quoted}](name=Kitten of Evil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T9JHVmZv,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2015-11-17T16:19:54.303+0000) > > But all mages are more casters than auto-attacks. Well except for maybe TF and Fizz. If you put those as Auto's mages, i would add kayle, azir and even diana as well. We can agree that some mages are more auto-attack based than casters, just as some Marksman are more Casters then auto based.
Ziovi (EUW)
: Indeed. The main problem is that AP champions has to give up on some useful stats if they want to get high CDR. For example, buyng morello + athene give you 40% CDR, buy you are spending gold for more mana reg than what you want, and you give up on some AP. ADCs, on the other hand, can just get 30-40% CDR simply buying items that are optimal for them. I think it may be fine to simply introduce a new item with high AP and 10% CDR, though.
> [{quoted}](name=Ziovi,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T9JHVmZv,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2015-11-17T10:21:10.211+0000) > > Indeed. The main problem is that AP champions has to give up on some useful stats if they want to get high CDR. For example, buyng morello + athene give you 40% CDR, buy you are spending gold for more mana reg than what you want, and you give up on some AP. > ADCs, on the other hand, can just get 30-40% CDR simply buying items that are optimal for them. > > I think it may be fine to simply introduce a new item with high AP and 10% CDR, though. If we talk about optimal, IE is still more dmg late, Triforce cost a lot and unnecessary on most ER users.
: You don't have to complete the Triforce to get the full 40% CDR. {{item:3508}} {{item:3057}} {{item:3086}} is enough, and that's 5850 gold. Still costs a bit more than Cauliflower Hammer plus Cloak, but Triforce is strong on most champs who use Essence Reaver.
> [{quoted}](name=Kitten of Evil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T9JHVmZv,comment-id=00000000000100000000,timestamp=2015-11-17T06:02:39.994+0000) > > You don't have to complete the Triforce to get the full 40% CDR. {{item:3508}} {{item:3057}} {{item:3086}} is enough, and that's 5850 gold. Still costs a bit more than Cauliflower Hammer plus Cloak, but Triforce is strong on most champs who use Essence Reaver. I mean, replace ER for Morello and Zeal for a codex/cdr boots and you basically have the ap version of that for less gold. i think its better to stick with completed items to make an argument.
: > [{quoted}](name=7ha7guy777,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T9JHVmZv,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-11-17T03:26:28.631+0000) > > 30%, you'll still need to spend another 1100g on {{item:3133}} afterwards. {{item:3508}} + {{item:3078}} gives an easy 40% cdr without losing on damage
> [{quoted}](name=Earthlord Jazz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T9JHVmZv,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2015-11-17T05:46:51.072+0000) > > {{item:3508}} + {{item:3078}} gives an easy 40% cdr without losing on damage you dont get the +% crit dmg from IE, not all adc want to spam their spells, and both of them are some of the most expensive item in the game, which takes more time, and delay anything else that could be very usefull at that moment (lifesteal/ armor pen, etc)
: I'm quite sure logically champions that cast spells would have an easier time getting cdr then ADC's the logic to me just doesn't add up
> [{quoted}](name=Derpyon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T9JHVmZv,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2015-11-17T11:44:51.010+0000) > > I'm quite sure logically champions that cast spells would have an easier time getting cdr then ADC's > the logic to me just doesn't add up some ADCs are more casters then auto-attacks. Think about Ezreal, Lucian, Corki, etc
Yrzen (NA)
: Here are your options as an AP mage: **{{item:3115}} and 1 of: {{item:3174}}{{item:3165}} OR {{item:3115}}{{item:3504}} and 1 of: {{item:3158}}{{item:3060}}{{item:3100}}{{item:3152}} OR 1 of: {{item:3174}}{{item:3165}}{{item:3115}} and 2 of: {{item:3158}}{{item:3060}}{{item:3100}}{{item:3152}} OR 4 of: {{item:3158}}{{item:3504}}{{item:3060}}{{item:3100}}{{item:3152}}** {{item:3504}} is pointless unless you have heals or shields, and even then isn't likely to be an ideal choice, even as a support. {{item:3100}}{{item:3152}}{{item:3115}} are all poor besides certain champions with synergy with them {{item:3060}} is a poor option if the enemy team has little or no AP, and isn't ideal for most mages. Two options require Nashor's synergy. A third is the most common route and forces you to choose between 2 meh options if you don't have Lichbane synergy. The last path requires items with far better options (with less cd) for just about every single champion. {{champion:84}}{{champion:55}}{{champion:85}}{{champion:68}}{{champion:8}} along with AP {{champion:82}} and {{champion:421}} are completely barred from all of the routes because of mana associated with items in all of them. {{item:3065}}{{item:3110}}{{item:3190}}{{item:3222}} Are all terrible for mages. You might as well count them for Adcs if you want to take them into account. Same goes for {{item:3050}} in a solo lane. Here are your options as an Adc: **{{item:3508}} and 1 of: {{item:3158}}{{item:3142}}{{item:3078}}{{item:3137}}{{item:3812}}{{item:1400}}{{item:1408}}{{item:1412}} OR {{item:3071}} and 2 of: {{item:3158}}{{item:3142}}{{item:3078}}{{item:3137}}{{item:3812}}{{item:1400}}{{item:1408}}{{item:1412}} OR 4 of: {{item:3158}}{{item:3142}}{{item:3078}}{{item:3137}}{{item:3812}}{{item:1400}}{{item:1408}}{{item:1412}}** {{item:1400}}{{item:1408}}{{item:1412}} are restricted to jungling adcs. {{item:3078}}{{item:3508}} are both poor besides certain champions with synergy with them. {{item:3137}} is a situational item. EDIT: Yeah this list is flawed as shit.
> [{quoted}](name=Ryik7,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T9JHVmZv,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-11-17T09:31:03.169+0000) > > Here are your options as an Adc: > > **{{item:3508}} and 1 of: {{item:3158}}{{item:3142}}{{item:3078}}{{item:3137}}{{item:3812}}{{item:1400}}{{item:1408}}{{item:1412}} > OR > {{item:3071}} and 2 of: {{item:3158}}{{item:3142}}{{item:3078}}{{item:3137}}{{item:3812}}{{item:1400}}{{item:1408}}{{item:1412}} > OR > 4 of: {{item:3158}}{{item:3142}}{{item:3078}}{{item:3137}}{{item:3812}}{{item:1400}}{{item:1408}}{{item:1412}}** > > {{item:1400}}{{item:1408}}{{item:1412}} are restricted to jungling adcs. > > {{item:3078}}{{item:3508}} are both poor besides certain champions with synergy with them. > > {{item:3137}} is a situational item. > > Looking at this, I'd say adcs definitely have it better. for ER to give 30% you need a zeal item, so its not like you get 30% of only 1 item, but 2. Also not every adc will get triforce/ghostblade, dervish isnt in SR as far as i know, jungle item as adc mean they have smite which is terrible for lane, there is almost always a better option then cleaver for ADCs. ER+Triforce cost a lot as they are both some of the most costly items in the game. CDR boots means they dont have Zerkers which are really efficient at the moment, and compensate a lot for the lost of AS most zeal item got (you know adc generally scale better with as than cdr). Furthermore, also note that not many ADCs actually benefits from capped CDR only 2 or 3 does out of 20ish. Then I see you also forget that mages traditionnally are midlaners, that get bluebuffs normally in games. thats +10% cdr. Then i looked at your selection of ap champion that are "in dire" need of ap cdr itemization. Katarina literally has a passive that helps refresh her CDs, she doesnt need more cdr, she needs dmg to proc it. Same with Akali, she doesnt need CDR, she needs to kill people and get R resets. also Energy as a ressource doesnt go that well with cdr, since it just make you go out of energy faster. Its better to get more AP to get more value out of the energy you use. Kennen and Rumble dont need CDr either. they need way to survive (with zhonya or rylai for examples) to be able to do their things (AoE tons of dmg, Slows/Stuns, etc). Just like Akali, they have Energy/heat as a ressource which doesnt work well with cdr. I can see how its harder for Vlad and Mordekaiser to get CDR, but they pretty strong with it so i can imagine that's some balancing involved with this. Boots + Will is 20%. I can easily see both of these as a solo laner going with spirit visage since it goes well with will/their kit (and is really good against other APs. It must more effective on they are mostly sustain mages, and with their build in healing + will 15% healing on spells + 20% increase healing on SV + 8% from mastery, they can heal for a lot. I also wouldnt it put aside the possibility of Lichbane on mordekaiser because of how is Q work. AP CDR Rek'sai ? so you can get that burrowed Q dmg ? because thats the only ap ratio. Thats just bad.
: Adcs have an easier time getting to 40% cdr than mages
> [{quoted}](name=Protean Wings,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0sTQ3AsL,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-11-17T02:44:07.692+0000) > > There's a lot of... abusable things this preseason like keystones and etc, but I think the new Essence Reaver is just too good. > > It honestly offers too many stats for it's cost when you factor in the free cdr you get from crit. > > Yes, Essence Reaver was an awful item before that needed to be reworked but now it's good to the point of being overloaded. i dont see how adc have an easier time ? ER gives 10% -> 30 with a zeal and then they need 1 more item (cdr boots, DD,etc) to get to 40% : basically 3 items. Athene/Morello =20%, + cdr boots + one random cdr item between lichbane, will, etc or literally get the blue buff which should go to the mage in most cases (assuming you are playing a mage mid, since i cant think of many top lane mage that need that much cdr). : basically 3 items -> 2 with bluebuff.
: mages have too few choices for reaching cooldown cap
you forgot that mages are traditionally midlaners that get blue buffs. thats +10% right there.
: The issue is how small the health difference required for the item to provide 15% damage amplification is. If you want a simple example, Ashe has 1870 base HP at level 18 and Tryndamere has 2290 base health at level 18. Even without purchasing any health items, Tryndamere has 420 HP more than Ashe. Tryndamere has not purchased any health items but Lord Dominik's Regards would still provide close to the full 15% damage amplification against him when used by Ashe. That's not an item that punishes champions who stack health; it's an item that punishes the purchase of any health item, no matter how minor, very effectively.
> [{quoted}](name=EndlessSorcerer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bNz1i01E,comment-id=00030000000100000000,timestamp=2015-11-07T21:23:24.765+0000) > > The issue is how small the health difference required for the item to provide 15% damage amplification is. > > If you want a simple example, Ashe has 1870 base HP at level 18 and Tryndamere has 2290 base health at level 18. Even without purchasing any health items, Tryndamere has 420 HP more than Ashe. > > Tryndamere has not purchased any health items but Lord Dominik's Regards would still provide close to the full 15% damage amplification against him when used by Ashe. > > That's not an item that punishes champions who stack health; it's an item that punishes the purchase of any health item, no matter how minor, very effectively. I think it's safe to assume that tryndamere still win that 1v1 lol, not much of a concern :^). yes its just an example, but its one that doesnt show much more then one is an utility marksman, made to be squishy and kiting with her kit, and the other is a dueslist-esque fighter that excel in splitpushing. One is more a teamfighter, the other more of a 1v1 champion. would make more sense to justify it with a duellist-duellist match up, like vayne. Then the core issue i see here is that tryndamere that has more base hp than the average marksman (aka is more tanky, even if its just core hp) is receiving more damage from a champion that is less tanky and has built a very specific item design to deal more damage on champion with more health than you ? also dont forget that if we assume a 500 dmg hit, the amp is +75 dmg. that means the marksman will have to hit you 7 time for 525 (to counter-balance the 500 hp requirement for capped 15% dmg amp), so the marksman has to hit you for 3500 damage to get +520 bonus damage from the LDR's passive. In the end yes the item will allow the ADC kill slightly faster, but its really not as dramatic as the board thinks.
: Most mages run scaling health seals. Those, combined with any of the items you listed above, is enough for 15% damage amplification. It's not a bad idea for an item, but it should definitely have a higher health difference required for the maximum damage. Maybe something along the lines of 1000 to 1500 more health for 15% damage amplification.
> [{quoted}](name=EndlessSorcerer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bNz1i01E,comment-id=000300000001,timestamp=2015-11-06T17:49:24.793+0000) > > Most mages run scaling health seals. Those, combined with any of the items you listed above, is enough for 15% damage amplification. > > It's not a bad idea for an item, but it should definitely have a higher health difference required for the maximum damage. Maybe something along the lines of 1000 to 1500 more health for 15% damage amplification. health scaling making more tanky, and make the anti-tank item more effective against you, how is that an issue ? What i'm seeing here, is people want to be able to build hp items and not get as punished against people that build item that are efficient against hp stacking. Maybe thats the point of these changes ? Also if you consider a 1k damage crit (lol), only after the 4th crit in a row does the damage outweight the bonus hp gate of 500 hp for +15% dmg(15% of 1k is 150, 3x 150 is 450, 4x is 600). If you got 1k dmg critted 4 time, i highly doubt the +15% is what killing you. And any bonus hp above 500 is just helping you be more tanky as it doesnt increase the bonus damage further up.
: Locket is not a full tank item and is normally built on supports to begin with. If Janna wanted to survive at all in a team fight she needs an item with some tank stat outside of sightstone or she would die in like 3 crits from an adc anyway or simply die during a chain of cc.
> [{quoted}](name=My Waifu Chocola,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2mqdKYJR,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2015-11-06T19:32:21.580+0000) > > Locket is not a full tank item and is normally built on supports to begin with. If Janna wanted to survive at all in a team fight she needs an item with some tank stat outside of sightstone or she would die in like 3 crits from an adc anyway or simply die during a chain of cc. i dont understand the "locket is not a full tank item" ? what do you mean ? because it has an aura and AoE shield which make it more supportive in team fight, its less a tank item regardless it has health, resist, CDR, hp regen ? and honestly if janna only has sightstone and locket, while the opponent adc has LDR, which is a 3rd/4th item, then it mean her team is losing to a lot of magic damage, and the adc itemization shouldnt be as much of a concern as the fed ap carry (ies) on the enemy team. either that or poor itemization choice, as there is other choices that could be rushed first that would help a team a lot, Zeke's Harbringer, Arden Censer, Mikael's Crucible and Frozen Heart are some examples of this.
Voluug13 (NA)
: And there are many mages that can get all the 3. Specially RoA Liandri.
> [{quoted}](name=Voluug13,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bNz1i01E,comment-id=000300000002,timestamp=2015-11-06T19:45:13.368+0000) > > And there are many mages that can get all the 3. Specially RoA Liandri. there is many that dont, and there is a lot of different ap items available. in the end, those items help being more tanky, so its only normal that an item design against tanks also work well against them.
: > [{quoted}](name=Risurin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bNz1i01E,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-11-06T15:04:53.409+0000) > > might be an unpopular opinion on this board :^) but i think its fine like that. AP champions have those utility items that make them effectively more durable while not losing much of their bursting impact if at all. see this as a trade off for the hp items you building, they help you tank more damage overall, but also help one champion deal more damage if they also build one specific item. Welp, I'll be quitting if they make it so marksmen routinely win 1v1 duels with mages at any point of the game, because at that point there is no reason to play mages since marksmen kill objectives and players better. I'm not talking about outplays, those are fine. I'm talking about the inherent reliability of right click auto attacks vs the fact that many mages have to do extra work to ensure their combo lands.
> [{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bNz1i01E,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2015-11-06T20:28:47.896+0000) > > Welp, I'll be quitting if they make it so marksmen routinely win 1v1 duels with mages at any point of the game, because at that point there is no reason to play mages since marksmen kill objectives and players better. I'm not talking about outplays, those are fine. I'm talking about the inherent reliability of right click auto attacks vs the fact that many mages have to do extra work to ensure their combo lands. i mean, mages will still have CCs and burst that allow them to kill marksman really fast, and have a ton of utility in team fights. Zhonya is pretty good to help get your cd back will not taking any damage yourself. i dont think there should be a reason why 1v1 with a generic mage and a generic adc should go one way or another during the most of a game.
Duke Anax (EUW)
: Good point, LDR should certainly be effective against tanky mages, however I don't think it should reach it's full effect in the range of only one major health item.
> [{quoted}](name=Duke Anax,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bNz1i01E,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2015-11-06T15:24:19.236+0000) > > Good point, LDR should certainly be effective against tanky mages, however I don't think it should reach it's full effect in the range of only one major health item. then again it only reach its full effect against a fully stacked RoA (if we are talking about 1 ap/hp item), since both rylais and liandri have less then 500 hp each. If we are talking about 1 generic tank item at all, well dont forget that ADC might need to build one themselves, like banshee's veil. The item need to still be good after the adc got a defensive item to not get oneshotted, or it would simply make the item worse when the adc is taking an item to survive a bit.
: Proof that the Giant Slayer passive is "too good"
i have some trouble understanding your logic here... 1.5% damage amp against a sightstone only ? i mean by the time the adc get a lw item, i hope your support have more then just a sightstone ? More importantly, are you complaining that a janna, that is building tank items (because thats what locket is, even if its doesnt have armor), is getting more bursted by the anti-tank role equipped with an anti-tank item ? I feel that's sort of the point here ? I mean even for mages that build those hp/ap items, are effectively more tanky, so an item like that should be more efficient against them. Also i'm wondering really if its going to be as bad as everyone on these board pretend it will be. not to be hatin', but league board isnt the goto reference in term of balancing :^). Technically speaking, if you have 500 more health than an adc, and that champion crits you for 1k damage, the amp is basically +150 damage. i'm pretty sure you are going to die off the crits rather than the damage amp on a item built that will only appear around mid/late game
: I don't really understand the math behind the item. They complained that Last Whisper was basically a minimum 10% damage amp against everyone, and then they release an item that against someone with a single significant health item is a 15% damage amp... with the (admittedly significantly nerfed) armor pen passive on top of that. How does that make sense? And it's such an obvious thing. The item will be built in every single game, just like Last Whisper was, because being anything other than glass makes you susceptible to it, and it's exceptional at destroying tanks. The Grievous Wounds pen item will be a noob trap on 5.22, even against people like Mundo.
> [{quoted}](name=MotherTeresa1910,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bNz1i01E,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-11-06T14:29:41.813+0000) > > I don't really understand the math behind the item. They complained that Last Whisper was basically a minimum 10% damage amp against everyone, and then they release an item that against someone with a single significant health item is a 15% damage amp... with the (admittedly significantly nerfed) armor pen passive on top of that. How does that make sense? And it's such an obvious thing. > > The item will be built in every single game, just like Last Whisper was, because being anything other than glass makes you susceptible to it, and it's exceptional at destroying tanks. The Grievous Wounds pen item will be a noob trap on 5.22, even against people like Mundo. not every ap goes rylai liandry and RoA... with those a mage is effectively more durable and tanky and the anti-tank item become more efficient. its working as intended. also the grieving wound item isnt a noob trap. its to fight composition with lots of sustain. Think about lifesteal/spellvamp.
Duke Anax (EUW)
: Lord Dominik's Regards have the same issue old Last Whisper had: effective against non Tanks.
might be an unpopular opinion on this board :^) but i think its fine like that. AP champions have those utility items that make them effectively more durable while not losing much of their bursting impact if at all. see this as a trade off for the hp items you building, they help you tank more damage overall, but also help one champion deal more damage if they also build one specific item.
hudzell (NA)
: Why not unlock icons of a champion's portrait when you reach Mastery 5 with them?
{{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}} People dont know what we are getting for champ mastery in the next season
: Yeah, 800g for GW is a bit much. Doubly so as you combine it with Last Whisper! I mean...what ADC isn't going to buy this item? That's...just stupid. Guess I won't be maining Soraka anymore unless they give her something to counteract GW more thoroughly. I also feel really bad for Mundo players. Not Vladimir players though... I hate Vladimir... He should just start with GW applied.
> [{quoted}](name=Jharr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hgL1fKhK,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-04T01:55:37.781+0000) > > Yeah, 800g for GW is a bit much. Doubly so as you combine it with Last Whisper! I mean...what ADC isn't going to buy this item? That's...just stupid. Guess I won't be maining Soraka anymore unless they give her something to counteract GW more thoroughly. I also feel really bad for Mundo players. Not Vladimir players though... I hate Vladimir... He should just start with GW applied. the ones that want the other version of lw ? you know the one that does 15% more damage to people that have more hp then you ?
Kat Head (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=SwapShadows,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EMwOzcuu,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-10-18T13:56:53.034+0000) > > Flash is mandatory on almost every single champion. At this point it's better to leave it alone instead of trying to nerf it or delete it. Attacking the one lane that needs teleport to be relevant is a bad idea. Top lane needs teleport to be the way it is (or buffed), to have an impact on games. It is ridiculous how many other lanes are using it now, but Riot needs to be very careful when nerfing this ability. I do not play top lane very frequently, but I do not believe nerfing teleport would be a good idea for that lane. Every lane should be able to impact the game. **THE GAME IS BOT LANE**, whoever wins that wins the game (and Riot is buffing bot lane, LOL).
> [{quoted}](name=Kat Head,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EMwOzcuu,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-10-18T14:04:07.693+0000) > > Attacking the one lane that needs teleport to be relevant is a bad idea. Top lane needs teleport to be the way it is (or buffed), to have an impact on games. It is ridiculous how many other lanes are using it now, but Riot needs to be very careful when nerfing this ability. > > I do not play top lane very frequently, but I do not believe nerfing teleport would be a good idea for that lane. Every lane should be able to impact the game. **THE GAME IS BOT LANE**, whoever wins that wins the game (and Riot is buffing bot lane, LOL). while i agree TP opened a lot of posibilities for top lane and help them having an impact on the map, in the current state its too easy to just deny any form of lead just by TP-ing back in the lane to not miss any minions or goon squad bot lane with midlane (that are also taking TP) and junglers, which in return make bot lane suffer greatly as they cannot make any over agressive play because of the potential of TPs. There is probably way so that top laners can still have a usefull TP summoner without it being overwhelming good like it is right now.
: She's not drinking it, though. ;)
> [{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=n8tf3Nm0,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-10-14T00:14:30.102+0000) > > She's not drinking it, though. ;) what about gragas ? he smoke on one splash and has an ability named drunken rage, so i doubt he is drinking a non-alcoholic brevage.
rindo789 (EUNE)
: Nerf Vayne
> [{quoted}](name=rindo789,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yPdy1HhP,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-10-05T19:49:40.018+0000) > >She did 3 basic attacks to my Alistair support and he was half the health down, he had like 2000 hp! If she actually did 3 autos for 1000 damage, your alistar was massively behind/ vayne was massively ahead. Her silver bolt would have only dealt 220 damage (8% of 2k + 60) rest was physical damage. So unless your alistar has literally 0 armor or vayne has a lot of AD, like really a lot of AD, then there is no way this happenned.
Show more

Risurin

Level 72 (NA)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion