: > [{quoted}](name=Rock MD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rc3q2V7w,comment-id=0001000000020001,timestamp=2019-08-22T20:03:56.959+0000) > > That is the most entitled school of thought I've ever seen. I could say the same about catering to pros. It's like saying "I'm at the top so what I say should carry more weight and affect everyone else." This also leads to the pros problems of not having as many "viable" champs to play. I don't think champs should be watered down so that they can be played by all as that takes away from their sense of achievement and some champs just have a high learning curve but catering to the top 3-4% is somewhat elitist. And obviously it shouldn't be balanced for newer players as they are just starting out and don't have a full grasp on the game. I think Riot needs to look at the average League experience and go a bit right of center and hit that sweet spot that the average player can obtain with more time/dedication and that a pro player could fall into were they to stop playing so aggressively.
> [{quoted}](name=SirLanc3lot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rc3q2V7w,comment-id=00010000000200010000,timestamp=2019-08-23T16:19:47.490+0000) > > I could say the same about catering to pros. It's like saying "I'm at the top so what I say should carry more weight and affect everyone else." This also leads to the pros problems of not having as many "viable" champs to play. Yes, if you know how the game works you know what is and isn't more broken because it's being played by people who know how to play it. That SHOULD carry weight. You're literally saying, "I know the game better, and I have physical proof of that (my rank + status), so I know what should and shouldn't be changed." is entitled when it follows the most basic chain of reasoning. If I know the game better, I know what is and isn't broken and the game should be balanced around that. > I don't think champs should be watered down so that they can be played by all Agreed, some should be tough to play. > as that takes away from their sense of achievement and some champs just have a high learning curve but catering to the top 3-4% >is somewhat elitist. Elitist is a buzzword. The game should be balanced around playing correctly. If you're adverse to the game being balanced over proper play and say, "oh it's just elitist." I'm going to roll my eyes because there's nothing inherently wrong with that. > And obviously it shouldn't be balanced for newer players as they are just starting out and don't >have a full grasp on >the game. Of course > I think Riot needs to look at the average League experience and go a bit right of center and hit that sweet spot that the average player can obtain with more time/dedication and that a pro player could fall into were they to stop playing so aggressively. Gold? No. Plat? Absolutely not. You don't see proper lane mechanics until d1+, and to balance around anything less is gross.
: What if someone wants to play kalista or azir but isn't good at the game? Should they be forever doomed to lose the majority of their games simply because LC$ players can have voice comms and can play much better on that champ? Pros make up an incredibly small portion of the playerbase and should not be the metric for balance.
> [{quoted}](name=Bob the Toastr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rc3q2V7w,comment-id=000100000002,timestamp=2019-08-22T07:34:03.138+0000) > > What if someone wants to play kalista or azir but isn't good at the game? Should they be forever doomed to lose the majority of their games simply because LC$ players can have voice comms and can play much better on that champ? > > Pros make up an incredibly small portion of the playerbase and should not be the metric for balance. That is the most entitled school of thought I've ever seen. What if you really like Dark Souls but you don't have the mechanical skill to play it? Too bad. YOU should be the one to get better at the game and then come back, rather than expect the developers to make the game easier for you. If you cannot pilot a champion because you're not mechanically skilled at the champion, it's you to blame. On top of that, these champions can usually be played inside of Diamond+ games, so no pro balance does not only cater to pros but roughly 3-4% of the playerbase. And I mean, imagine hitting Diamond and Riot saying, "hey fuck you, we're balancing for Silvers and Golds since they're the largest part of our playerbase." All that time and effort invested just to hear that the game will be absolutely unplayable since Azir/TK/Ryze/Kalista/Ornn will run rampant.
KazKaz (OCE)
: "Five incredibly skilled players vs. five incredibly skilled players working as an organized team with a structured gameplan" See...there's your problem, as for the rest of us we have like 1-3 good players in the game and 7-9 absolute bots.
> [{quoted}](name=KazKaz,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rc3q2V7w,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2019-08-22T05:33:45.989+0000) > > "Five incredibly skilled players vs. five incredibly skilled players working as an organized team with a structured gameplan" > > See...there's your problem, as for the rest of us we have like 1-3 good players in the game and 7-9 absolute bots. I've done lots of coaching and I can tell you that's completely untrue. It's more like 2-3 feeding players and 7-8 shit players with overinflated egos because this game they're not the ones feeding.
Ecophile (NA)
: Not sure what you mean. You can't buffer malph R. For flash R combo, you need to flash first. Also, always trying to be max range is a bad idea in high elo. Good players keep their flash solely to flash your ult in fights.
> [{quoted}](name=Ecophile,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mA1ELAmA,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-02T01:27:53.834+0000) > > Not sure what you mean. You can't buffer malph R. For flash R combo, you need to flash first. Also, always trying to be max range is a bad idea in high elo. Good players keep their flash solely to flash your ult in fights. You can't buffer it now, but if it's consistent with every other skillshot in its category, prior to being made to fire even if you went past max range it should've been able to be buffered. And the point I'm making about being in max range isn't about Malphite always wanting to be just within max range. As, well... if you want to initiate that's just suboptimal. I'm saying most high level AD/mid/supps will be thinking, "okay Malphite ultimate has 800 (hypothetically) range so I should be in the 1000-1100 unit range." If you don't get off a good flank, there's no way to reliably enter fights without flashing, and as you normally can't contest a bruiser you rarely open flank spots for yourself. The point I'm making is that they're always skirting just outside your range, and these are nerfs to good engage opportunities for Malphite, because once you're in the range that immediate casting is any good, everyone knows what you're doing and how to counter it.
: A actual look at what can be done to make Treeline draw in more players
> [{quoted}](name=CaptainAntiHeroz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xdLXcdbT,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-07-31T20:45:52.081+0000) > > 1- Larger jungle so team play can get a better focus more champions can be viable and people like {{champion:141}} and {{champion:91}} don't just get to control the whole map because walls mean nothing > 2- Add 1 red and 1 blue buff on opposite sides of the map equal distance away from both spawns that spawn a little later than the early camps around the same time the alters unlock so objective plays aren't pointless. and make them slightly stronger than summoners rift so there is an incentive to go for them and lose an alter > 3- Add a River and a dragon pit. Put the dragon pit on the opposite side of the map got it let's make TT into SR.
: This doesn't really affect speed though. If you are flash ulting, you are flashing into range, then instantly ulting. This hotfix doesn't affect the speed at which the ability is cast unless you are out of range, in which case I would argue that isn't a good thing to instantly ult if you aren't going to hit your target to begin with.
> [{quoted}](name=stTerminator,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mA1ELAmA,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-07-31T20:30:24.205+0000) > > This doesn't really affect speed though. If you are flash ulting, you are flashing into range, then instantly ulting. This hotfix doesn't affect the speed at which the ability is cast unless you are out of range, in which case I would argue that isn't a good thing to instantly ult if you aren't going to hit your target to begin with. > [{quoted}](name=CoolTrainerZach,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mA1ELAmA,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2019-07-31T20:57:04.737+0000) > > I don't care how fast I go if my ult doesn't hit the target... > > The most important ability in his kit can now be easily mis-clicked due to range. I don't wanna double post so I'll tackle both of these. In high elo, people know what Malphite does right? You have to stay x number of units away without your team or he'll initiate on you. Sometimes, Malphite will even flash out of the fog into just about his max range and catch you off guard. If he flashes, walks a second, and then ults it's going to be EXTREMELY obvious what he's trying to do. People will get out ASAP. So yes, there is some value in being extremely fast with your combos, and having that "QoL" fix. However, I did say that I think accuracy is more important, as your ults in late-game should always be roughly max range (as in squishies will try space outside your range) and if you ult a specific spot and the ult comes up short, well you're just and and I think that's just frustrating. Also, this prevents you from buffering > [{quoted}](name=Myrmiron,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mA1ELAmA,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-07-31T20:32:10.699+0000) > > I play a lot of Malphite and I wanted this. This is good. Which means no this is not good. To buffer an ability like Malphite R, move out of range and click a spot to ult. You'll walk toward that spot. If you flash and that flash gets you in range, your ultimate will go off immediately and removes a lot of time that's spent aiming the ability after flashing, giving you next to no reaction time aside from the travel time of the projectile.
: Revert the Malphite R bugfix plz!
There's a tradeoff between speed (casting instantly and not having to walk up to a specific spot) and accuracy. It's a really tough call and although there are definitely cases where speed is necessary (flash ulting), I think accuracy is more desired.
Barkley (NA)
: Can we have an "Invisible" mode please
: Many of the buffs in this patch were unnecessary
> [{quoted}](name=EbonyBladeJ88,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VtibBE9Q,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-07-31T17:31:48.197+0000) > > For Vayne, the Condemn change increases the damage to 150% when they strike a wall and the damage is now instantaneous. It wasn't already enough that it adds a stack of her W that could proc the 3rd-hit effect and is a point-and-click free disengage I guess. The explanation (At least from what I understand based on what's written in the patch notes) given is that it is to aid her in last hitting minions. > > Now I don't play Vayne, but what Vayne player uses their E to last hit a minion? She's already got her AA's and if needed, the AA-Resetting Q that deals increased damage, so why waste the E on a minion? I would think that would practically be inviting the enemy bot-lane (And the JG if they are there) to go on you because your disengage is down. The Vayne's I have seen (Both on my team and the enemy team) never have used it, expect perhaps those that may not know or understand how Vayne works. You misread what they're saying but pretend that explanation doesn't exist. Think about any time that Vayne's condemn hits you into a wall. That now does 150% extra damage. Vayne buys AS and doesn't skill up the ability until level 14 so you're looking at a change from 100 base (100% bonus AD) to 125 (125% bonus AD). Up to level 14 that's less than 100 extra damage in an all in, and that's me being super generous with the bonus AD I'm giving her. Realistically, that's like 60 extra damage at level 14. 50 at best around level 9. Even if you rush IE that's still 105 extra damage but you've lost tons of AS that could be used to proc silver bolts so it's a net damage decrease. The time the damage activates was so that if you're laning you can hit minions easier under tower. It's a nice little QoL fix that does next to nothing for her. > Next, on to Lucian. (I don't play him either, so I'm just writing based on my experiences from that same limited third person viewpoint as with Vayne) > They buffed his R, claiming he needed boosts so he won't fall off as much in the late-game. Here's the problem; Lucian (Based on my understanding) is SUPPOSED TO FALL OFF LATE-GAME! That is supposed to be his intended weakness, that he is strong early to mid game, but loses effectiveness when the late-game comes. He is supposed to want to smash his lane in the early and mid and close out a game before his opponent can outscale him. > Now this buff may not entirely remove that weakness, but it brings up one of the problems of Riot's balancing over the last few seasons. Yes, Lucian does fall off due to the nature of his kit. Yes, that still means he can be buffed in the late-game. If a champion does well in the early-game that doesn't mean they need to be downright useless in the late-game, just less attractive than other picks. Besides, 5 damage per shot on his ultimate doesn't do ANYTHING of consequence unless you sit there and eat his full ultimate because why not. You're freaking out over the most useless buffs that do nothing for these champions' kits.
: The answer is agency His old defensive ability, his passive, was really bad His new E gives him far more agency in team fights, he can function in the game way better than before Before you just join a fight with ult, flash W someone, deal some dmg and probably die Now pantheon has way more options and can be far more useful
> [{quoted}](name=BigBrainSuppMain,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t4ZHsO20,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-31T02:28:57.354+0000) > > The answer is agency > > His old defensive ability, his passive, was really bad > > His new E gives him far more agency in team fights, he can function in the game way better than before > > Before you just join a fight with ult, flash W someone, deal some dmg and probably die > > Now pantheon has way more options and can be far more useful Pantheon's old passive was really strong. The issue was it provided a lot of consistent, unfair power that was hard to play around. It's fair to make the ability much stronger because there are now dynamics to it that make it possible to play around.
: So Riot created this board to literally connect with the players and get feedback, but then when they don't listen to that feedback or do dumb shit that angers the players, who then result to insults because they continue to ignore us, they decide to run and hide their tail between their legs instead of growing up and actually doing something about it. Yea nice one guys. No wonder they go to other websites instead of their own forums they created for a reason. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}
> [{quoted}](name=MiracleMorg94,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=seu7L2P1,comment-id=0015000100000000,timestamp=2019-07-23T12:24:13.781+0000) > > So Riot created this board to literally connect with the players and get feedback, but then when they don't listen to that feedback or do dumb shit that angers the players, who then result to insults because they continue to ignore us, they decide to run and hide their tail between their legs instead of growing up and actually doing something about it. > > Yea nice one guys. No wonder they go to other websites instead of their own forums they created for a reason. > > {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}} "Wow I keep calling this person an incompetent twat why won't he grow up and fix his problems?" the worst part is well over half of these aren't even problems on Riot's end, they're the playerbase being garbage.
: > [{quoted}](name=Rock MD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7qLg4ueA,comment-id=00230000,timestamp=2019-07-22T20:41:50.729+0000) > > Lmao a ball of stats with next to no variation is cool? Well, apparently it is to some people because "revert runes" threads always get a ton of upvotes.
> [{quoted}](name=Reaversal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7qLg4ueA,comment-id=002300000000,timestamp=2019-07-22T21:29:01.207+0000) > > Well, apparently it is to some people because "revert runes" threads always get a ton of upvotes. This board tries to blame anything they can for the game not being fun anymore, and this includes everything from damage to mobility creep to runes. The fact of the matter is the game has been figured out and optimized so the magic is gone, and people are looking to blame anything they can. It's like RuneScape back in the good ol' day. Yeah you had a lot of people leave because of the wilderness and free trade but most of the people that quit did so because they were like, "y'know, I don't find these game mechanics fun anymore. All I do now is sit at the bank and skill and it's boring." Same basic concept. They don't like actually playing the game itself, they like having a laugh with friends doing something novel and exciting.
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Reaversal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7qLg4ueA,comment-id=0023,timestamp=2019-07-22T19:42:27.465+0000) > > Oh look, more people wanting back cool things that the morally bankrupt r%%%%%s at Riot Games removed. > > I am fucking SICK of these threads. Get a fucking clue, Riot. Revert your damn game back to a time when people were actually fucking happy. > > Complaints, complaints, complaints, I AM FUCKING SICK OF COMPLAINTS. > > DO SOMETHING RIGHT FOR ONCE, RIOT, YOU FUCKING PIECES OF SHIT. ALL OF YOU NEED SOME FUCKING SENSE SMASHED INTO YOUR GOD DAMN SKULLS TO MAKE YOUR FUCKING PLAYERS HAPPY. Lmao a ball of stats with next to no variation is cool?
shofaz (NA)
: Using Riot's Balance Framework on Viktor and Jhin
Hi. I'm one of the highest ranked Viktor players in NA. The reasons that Viktor and Jhin differ is largely based on what I would call relative capabilities of their kits. In other words, we compare them to their counterparts to see whether they need buffs/nerfs, and if the class is too strong as a whole then nerfs go out to itemization and the like. Compared to his peers, Jhin is a bad champion. Early game doesn't matter as much for ADCs as (especially in high elos) ADs run teleport to get through the phase where Jhin shines. On top of that, the fighters that play into Jhin are generally way too mobile or too drain-tanky for Jhin to effectively combat. He also does not shove other champions out of the role when he's strong so Riot doesn't feel bad buffing him. In high elo, Viktor is another story entirely. His kit is very simple compared to most mages, and is extremely abusable in lane. Winning lane against Viktor at a high level is almost entirely based on whether his mana bar gives out before your hp bar. That's why I call his E the "cooldown tax" or "hp tax". it's like saying, "okay you've been in lane for 15 seconds with Viktor it's now time to lose 1 death ray's worth of hp." He has to stay weak during this timeframe because if he's good at laning, he gets to bully you into submission and safely scale to late-game for free and we all know how disgusting Viktor's late-game is. That's why Riot is hesitant to buff him. Unlike Jhin, he 100% crowds out other picks when he's good. As for Viktor's winrate, it's higher in lower elos because it reflects how long the average bronze/silver game is. I don't think it has anything to do with skill because Viktor is simple enough that (in my opinion) he scales exponentially with the user's lane mechanics and game knowledge rather than champion mechanics.
: > [{quoted}](name=Rock MD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uKRyT26N,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-17T02:55:08.815+0000) > > How do they do "nothing" to champions when this is probably the strongest outer turrets have ever been? Legitimately curious to your answer on this one, because I know for a fact I've never been more scared of a tower/towerdiving than I have this season. Then you are playing wrong. There is a 1 second delay between turret shots and even more if it has to switch targets. That coupled with time to kill being around 0.6 seconds now a turret means nothing.
> [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uKRyT26N,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-17T03:03:34.823+0000) > > Then you are playing wrong. There is a 1 second delay between turret shots and even more if it has to switch targets. That coupled with time to kill being around 0.6 seconds now a turret means nothing. Honestly you're probably playing really poorly and getting too worked up lmao. 0.6 second kill times and when towers should be strong are not coinciding. What are you hiding under tower at level 15 or something?
: > [{quoted}](name=Rock MD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uKRyT26N,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-17T01:03:17.906+0000) > > "Still glad rito doesn’t read these." Reads as, "These people are the problem, not me." > > Which is hilarious since you never post anything good. > > Also > > AD per minute increased to 9 from 4. > AD cap changed to (305 at 18:00) from (250 at 28:00). > Global gold reduced to Gold 50 from Gold 100. > > Every turret got buffs like this the patch plating was added. They scale up WAY faster. +8 damage 2 minutes in vs. +18 2 minutes in. Yes they were buffed massively in the early game. > > Stop posting pls and ty. You being horrible at interpreting what others say is you’re problem, not mine. Also, yeah see how much good that “massive” buff to turrets did? They are still just ambient gold waiting to be collected and do nothing to champions.
> [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uKRyT26N,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-17T01:09:58.826+0000) > > You being horrible at interpreting what others say is you’re problem, not mine. > > Also, yeah see how much good that “massive” buff to turrets did? They are still just ambient gold waiting to be collected and do nothing to champions. How do they do "nothing" to champions when this is probably the strongest outer turrets have ever been? Legitimately curious to your answer on this one, because I know for a fact I've never been more scared of a tower/towerdiving than I have this season.
: > [{quoted}](name=Rock MD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uKRyT26N,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-17T00:00:46.538+0000) > > Oh do i have to spell it out for you? > > The towers are too weak circlejerk is bad and doesn't realize how much Riot has buffed up turrets both offensively and defensively. > > Ironically, you also lash out and say other players are shit and that's the problem, which I find hilarious. Oh really? Cause the only change to turrets that made any difference was turret plates.... which did nothing but make them even more ambient gold. And I hate to break it to you, but i never lashed out at anyone. -.- but sure. Keep throwing out falsities.
> [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uKRyT26N,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-17T00:04:37.779+0000) > > Oh really? Cause the only change to turrets that made any difference was turret plates.... which did nothing but make them even more ambient gold. > > And I hate to break it to you, but i never lashed out at anyone. -.- but sure. Keep throwing out falsities. "Still glad rito doesn’t read these." Reads as, "These people are the problem, not me." Which is hilarious since you never post anything good. Also >Oh really? Cause the only change to turrets that made any difference was turret plates.... AD per minute increased to 9 from 4. AD cap changed to (305 at 18:00) from (250 at 28:00). Global gold reduced to Gold 50 from Gold 100. Every turret got buffs like this the patch plating was added. They scale up WAY faster. +8 damage 2 minutes in vs. +18 2 minutes in. Yes they were buffed massively in the early game. Stop posting pls and ty.
: > [{quoted}](name=Rock MD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uKRyT26N,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-16T22:24:25.024+0000) > > https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/mfZpltOW-your-one-stop-guide-to-gameplay-board-atm Okay?
> [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uKRyT26N,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-16T22:47:21.567+0000) > > Okay? Oh do i have to spell it out for you? The towers are too weak circlejerk is bad and doesn't realize how much Riot has buffed up turrets both offensively and defensively. Ironically, you also lash out and say other players are shit and that's the problem, which I find hilarious.
Barkley (NA)
: Why don’t turrets do true damage?
Also I'd like to point out for everyone else Past a point, you will get dove if you're positioning poorly inside of the lane. You let a massive wave slowpush to your tower and you're at 50-60% hp? Congrats. If their jungler is there, you're dead. Assassins have tools such as high AD and mobility to burst a target under tower to avoid taking a lot of tower shots. Tanks need tools to dive as well because due to their low damage, lower ranges (and lower mobility in most cases), they're going to just get pelted by the tower. Tanks can't do significant damage to towers inside of their own lane, especially because Bami's will often trigger and swap aggro to them. These changes are actually quite unfair because it means that even if they dumpster their lane and establish good wave control, they won't even be able to set up for their jungler to pick up a kill in a dive. tl;dr board who circlejerks how weak tanks are is asking for significant tank nerfs.
: > [{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uKRyT26N,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-16T19:13:15.675+0000) > > Towers do everything they need to do. So absolutely nothing? Cool. Glad to see we disagree.
> [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uKRyT26N,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-16T20:28:40.484+0000) > > So absolutely nothing? Cool. Glad to see we disagree. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/mfZpltOW-your-one-stop-guide-to-gameplay-board-atm
: Sir, our Japanese and Korean counterparts play League-On-The-Go in their cafes. We NEED to pander to them. Pfft, pleb. Yeah, I came from a time where a game lasted a good 40 minutes and needed an actual strategy, two-minute teamfights and just a good sigh of relief knowing we won. But I changed and now that the game only lasts 5 minutes, I feel much better. Are you implying you don't like when a midlaner is fed in the first two minutes and can change the game and force a nexus in 10? Pleb.
> [{quoted}](name=BigBïtchBërthä,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u2aEAlaa,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-07-16T03:56:50.541+0000) > > Sir, our Japanese and Korean counterparts play League-On-The-Go in their cafes. We NEED to pander to them. > > Pfft, pleb. > > Yeah, I came from a time where a game lasted a good 40 minutes and needed an actual strategy, two-minute teamfights and just a good sigh of relief knowing we won. But I changed and now that the game only lasts 5 minutes, I feel much better. Are you implying you don't like when a midlaner is fed in the first two minutes and can change the game and force a nexus in 10? Pleb. Ah yes, you build a lead on your opponent but with your zero sense of macro you aimlessly wander the map for 30 minutes, group to AoE deathball teamfight for 10 minutes straight, and then coin toss who wins based on who has the idiot who gets caught. Muh actual strategy. Meanwhile, I've seen a video of a pro game where Koreans turned a single burned flash on the enemy team into a free Baron 5 minutes later. They're far more strategic about 1 game than a Tryndamere player like you has been over the span of your career.
: Goodbye cancer ranged top picks
Where do you see these changes?
: Have you ever considered that maybe the forums aren't popular because riot never interacts with them? I'm not one of those "the reddit is just a pro-riot echo chamber" people, but the existence of the "rant" rule and the "no calls to action rule" make it so that any moderator on that subreddit can remove posts critical of riot without much problem.
> [{quoted}](name=Marshbouy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=biWEbu5E,comment-id=000800010000,timestamp=2019-07-14T04:43:54.441+0000) > > Have you ever considered that maybe the forums aren't popular because riot never interacts with them? > > I'm not one of those "the reddit is just a pro-riot echo chamber" people, but the existence of the "rant" rule and the "no calls to action rule" make it so that any moderator on that subreddit can remove posts critical of riot without much problem. Nope. I used to see them interact all the time. It has nothing to do with Riot never interacting, and this place slowly being more and anti-riot. They've alienated Rioters with spiteful rhetoric. And yes, r/lol mods are absurdly strict, but do you remember when everyone on this board (silver players mainly) started complaining that the balance team was silver and clueless. Meddler personally stepped in and said the balance team was all Diamond+ players in one of his gameplay thoughts posts? There are a lot of angry, stupid people on this forum, and they chased off Riot. Not vice versa.
: because riot figures that ignoring the community is better than interacting with it. which is, ofc, wrong. you don't make people like you more by completely ignoring them, failing to explain your design choices, and utterly refusing to interact with your community. edit: I love how half of the comments here are "cause they suck and aren't constructive at all" and this is one of the top posts right now https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/E2ikbKET-proposal-twisted-treeline-gameplay-update-new-game-mode-more-riot-mort-meddler zero interaction from rioters.
> [{quoted}](name=Marshbouy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=biWEbu5E,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-07-14T03:21:41.198+0000) > > because riot figures that ignoring the community is better than interacting with it. > > which is, ofc, wrong. > > you don't make people like you more by completely ignoring them, failing to explain your design choices, and utterly refusing to interact with your community. > > edit: I love how half of the comments here are "cause they suck and aren't constructive at all" > > and this is one of the top posts right now > > https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/E2ikbKET-proposal-twisted-treeline-gameplay-update-new-game-mode-more-riot-mort-meddler > > zero interaction from rioters. They interact with the community. The interact with the masses on Reddit and the high elo players on Twitter. This board is a washed up group of angry players, with a total count of no more than 5k. It's a shithole with people looking to go back to the glory days who don't even know what made the glory days good, lmao. Tell that guy to post his link on Reddit. It's pretty decent there, and I'm sure he'll get a hell of a lot more traction. Most of the people who post here just eat paste and complain.
: Ok, so then you agree with me after disagreeing with me....You use carousel to pick champs if a good champ, like Draven is available. But you never responded to the situation I painted for you: You get 1 Draven, or maybe 2 Dravens but a 3rd never drops. Is that luck or skill?
> [{quoted}](name=Arya Stark FTW,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oEtAndRL,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-12T03:47:45.936+0000) > > Ok, so then you agree with me after disagreeing with me.... No. That's like saying you should always follow your opponent in roams, except for meeting these special requirements. There are exceptions, but they're rare, and you're absolutely not following that rule at all. >You use carousel to pick champs if a good champ, like Draven is available. But you never responded to the situation I painted for you: You get 1 Draven, or maybe 2 Dravens but a 3rd never drops. Is that luck or skill? The third will drop eventually if you haven't tanked your econ to pick up Dravens. Units share a pool, so that while there is some luck to it, knowing which 4* units to go for based on what your opponents are chasing (and you can look at their boards), and when you start refreshing for units is a skill you should practice. Going all in for a 2* unit because you have 2 1* units is a surefire way to say, "yeah this guy doesn't know what he's doing and he's going to lose soon." Thinking it's purely luck when you have so many countermeasures in the game to help you when you do have actual bad luck makes you just look ignorant.
: Popular Opinion: AD assassins are hella overtuned
You're forgetting the part where they have terrible backline access, low ranges, weak AoE, and relatively unimpactful CC. The only real mold breaker on this is Qiyana and the payoff is she requires setup and her damage is dealt over a longer period of time.
: which gpu do you have
> [{quoted}](name=shadow336k,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BMVN9P1s,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-07-07T03:05:07.431+0000) > > which gpu do you have Uh... my graphics card is a Radeon R9 200 series if that helps.
: i found a fix for microstuttering
I have LeagueDisplays not running at startup and I'm still getting a lot of microstuttering. Is there anything else that might be causing it?
: > [{quoted}](name=Rock MD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oEtAndRL,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-07-04T16:32:01.744+0000) > > Oh, you use carousel for the characters. > > Lmao that's all I needed to hear. Why wouldnt you? To completely ignore the champs available in the carousel, you would have to be an idiot. Sure, sometimes a champ you need or want isnt there, so you pick the champ thats worth the most gold and sell it. But why wouldnt you take a draven in carousel and hope more Dravens become available as the game progresses?
> [{quoted}](name=Arya Stark FTW,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oEtAndRL,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-04T21:25:46.514+0000) > > Why wouldnt you? To completely ignore the champs available in the carousel, you would have to be an idiot. Sure, sometimes a champ you need or want isnt there, so you pick the champ thats worth the most gold and sell it. But why wouldnt you take a draven in carousel and hope more Dravens become available as the game progresses? ? >so you pick the champ thats worth the most gold and sell it. ???????? You use the carousel almost EXCLUSIVELY for items. Items are extremely limited, and you need ones that buff up your 2* and 3* units. The only time you should use the carousel for champions is when it gives you a crucial upgrade to an extremely powerful unit (Draven, Swain, ASol, etc.) or when it's the last champion you need to complete a late-game comp. Fishing for units is extremely inefficient and risky, and instead of using your head you're throwing your win to RNG and then complaining that RNG isn't good.
: Ok, lets say you pick Draven off the carousel. Then only 1 more Draven drops for you the rest of the game. He helps you get a win here and there, essentially ruining your bonus gold from having a losing streak. You trade him in for the gold and pick another good champ like Katarina, and only 1 more Kat drops the rest of the game. How do you win TFT with that sort of luck? That happens all the time.
> [{quoted}](name=Arya Stark FTW,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oEtAndRL,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-07-04T10:59:44.348+0000) > > Ok, lets say you pick Draven off the carousel. Then only 1 more Draven drops for you the rest of the game. He helps you get a win here and there, essentially ruining your bonus gold from having a losing streak. You trade him in for the gold and pick another good champ like Katarina, and only 1 more Kat drops the rest of the game. How do you win TFT with that sort of luck? That happens all the time. Oh, you use carousel for the characters. Lmao that's all I needed to hear.
: TFT is 90% luck, 10% skill
If you're losing, you have the opportunity to get the strongest items off the carousel for making a comp. You literally get first pick at making your late-game comp if you're behind. If you're losing fights, you can restructure your units. You can choose new champions to put items on. The only glaring issue, # of items distributed, is already considered a problem Riot is working on fixing. But even with bad RNG, there's a reason the best players win consistently. They have the game knowledge on how to pivot their comp, take advantage of good events and bad ones alike, and will always find a way to stay relevant. Saying TFT is all luck/RNG is what bad players say to soothe their ego after being unable to pull a win when they spend all their gold at stage 3 on rerolls, lmao.
: Not only this but it also makes it significantly easier to detect wintraders.
> [{quoted}](name=JamesTheMage15,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=l9G21ai0,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-01T03:08:59.613+0000) > > Not only this but it also makes it significantly easier to detect wintraders. Nobody is going to wintrade your games lmao
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: Trinity force has become core on Ashe
Yeah it's funny everyone thought Ashe's W buff (myself included) wouldn't do much but now people are rushing CDR with Sheen procs. Weird turn of events.
: If i go 4-0 and im ahead of him i definitely shouldnt be walking on eggshells to play against him. Nor should i just auto lose the 1v1. You're wrong there
> [{quoted}](name=KíttyBun,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vWRmfqXP,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-06-26T23:30:42.947+0000) > > If i go 4-0 and im ahead of him i definitely shouldnt be walking on eggshells to play against him. Nor should i just auto lose the 1v1. You're wrong there You have slow, telegraphed projectiles that are extremely easy to dodge. What do you mean you shouldn't auto lose the 1v1? I get it if you're ahead of a champion you should feel like you have obvious power on them, but Lux has absolutely no duel potential whatsoever. She's so easy to bait out and kill. In return, you contribute a massive amount of crowd control and shielding to teamfights. What is Zed supposed to do against 400-600 shield on every champion in a teamfight? If you said he should be able to do nothing against that in a teamfight, congratulations, now you know why he wins duels against you.
: I miss the days when you died instantly
Wrong board, you're looking for Memes & Games.
Pika Fox (NA)
: I think the better statement is that the general LoL playerbase doesnt know jack about how game design works, or what is actually fair or unfair, toxic or healthy.
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kzbBTL1o,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-06-24T01:07:40.275+0000) > > I think the better statement is that the general LoL playerbase doesnt know jack about how game design works, or what is actually fair or unfair, toxic or healthy. I wanted the title to reflect the point that there are going to be playstyles you don't like and that doesn't make them unhealthy, and for all the flak Asian players get on this board they have an important perspective.
: >When they're strong.
> [{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kzbBTL1o,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2019-06-24T01:00:07.067+0000) > > What does that even mean? I told you that strength does not correlate with interactivity, and China's definition of fairness is based on interactivity. Interactivity is not solely in the context of 1v1s or scrapping with your opponent, because if that was the case midlaners and ADCs would be massively buffed to be self-sufficient and I don't know a single rational person who wants that. Interactivity means you have options in the laning phase that don't involve letting them do whatever they want. Lanes you have to freeze aren't necessarily uninteractive as you'll probably poke these champions down. Uninteractive matchups are ones where, against a good player, you have no options outside of just letting the player do what they want or getting a counterpick. Nothing you said makes sense in that context.
: The differences seem more like the question being asked didn't translated well between each language. The NA players were answering what champions they felt was not fun to play against and the chinese players were answering what champions were not interactive to play against. The specific words were probably close approximations on a superficial level but didn't properly convey the same meanings. I would be more interested to see how these answers translated into what people banned in china (since it is the only server that most stat tracking websites don't readily have information for).
> [{quoted}](name=haaaaaaalp,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kzbBTL1o,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-06-23T23:23:29.797+0000) > > The differences seem more like the question being asked didn't translated well between each language. The NA players were answering what champions they felt was not fun to play against and the chinese players were answering what champions were not interactive to play against. The specific words were probably close approximations on a superficial level but didn't properly convey the same meanings. > > I would be more interested to see how these answers translated into what people banned in china (since it is the only server that most stat tracking websites don't readily have information for). No. They asked which felt the least fair. If you look at the differences in playstyles, it's understandable why they'd think slow paced, control style gameplay are unenjoyable. NA players, being the extraordinarily pseudo-passive players they are (I fall asleep every time I watch an amateur competitive tourney), don't like anything that can prevent them from playing passively. This includes things that run them down if they misposition. Chinese players are very aggressive and, as described by MULTIPLE streamers, pick fights at level 1, and their favorite champions (Lee Sin is a particular favorite for this reason) are ones that can lv1 5v5. Naturally, it would make sense that champions that discourage all interaction are the ones they feel are the least fair to play against.
: Anyone who actually knows anything about the game will say unfair champions are the ones who-- when they're strong-- you can't interact with. Mundo is not currently unfair because he's currently weak. But that isn't always the case. Same for champions like Volibear, Udyr, Jax, etc. The ones with very simple kits have no counterplay when their damage and defenses are high enough.
> [{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kzbBTL1o,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-06-23T18:58:18.399+0000) > > Anyone who actually knows anything about the game will say unfair champions are the ones who-- when they're strong-- you can't interact with. > > Mundo is not currently unfair because he's currently weak. But that isn't always the case. Same for champions like Volibear, Udyr, Jax, etc. The ones with very simple kits have no counterplay when their damage and defenses are high enough. That's not true at all. You can absolutely interact with Jax in the lane phase. You can fight him when you spike harder than him, you can control the wave if you're at a disadvantage, and you can win through other methods. On top of that, your metric is "if they're strong they're unfair." Well, yeah. If any champion is S tier they're unfair. That's not insightful or helpful. The Chinese particularly hate these champions because even if they're weak, they discouraged all forms of interaction. Heimerdinger is not an A or S tier mid/botlaner. However, you can't do anything in these lanes because if you try being aggressive, he'll have pushed so hard that you lose due to minions. So the only thing you can do is match his push and wait for him to fall off. Old Nunu was like this as well. There was literally no point to chasing a Nunu in the jungle. He'd slow you massively and then walk away. This is uninteractive gameplay. It's just not worth it to try interacting with them. There's no point in the early game where they're weak as you're forced to come at them. That's very different from some short ranged, strong early game champion that needs to pick fights to stay relevant. Even if said short ranged champion is overtuned.
Rioter Comments
Yenn (NA)
: Because mid lane is dominated by champions who boil down to 'kill the opponent before they kill you.' Lux out-ranges them and retains the potential to burst them down, while her root makes it hard to assassinate her, making her a safe pick and effective pick against virtually everything. Once she gets nerfed, Xerath will probably take her place.
> [{quoted}](name=Yenn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NAkJsvl4,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-06-20T06:04:31.822+0000) > > Because mid lane is dominated by champions who boil down to 'kill the opponent before they kill you.' > Lux out-ranges them and retains the potential to burst them down, while her root makes it hard to assassinate her, making her a safe pick and effective pick against virtually everything. > > Once she gets nerfed, Xerath will probably take her place. Lux is solely used as a counter pick to Zoe at a competitive level and Xerath is a fucking meme of a champion. Did you crawl out of a cave or something? She's meta going bot lane, running Aftershock, and maxing W.
: The lane is won or lost at champ select. Welcome to adc for the past 5 years my dude.
> [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v30ZJ3Ex,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-06-19T17:49:19.506+0000) > > The lane is won or lost at champ select. > > > Welcome to adc for the past 5 years my dude. Maybe one day you'll make a good post. But that day is not today.
: and i was playing against a leblank smurf in euw, that's actually a challanger and was streaming on his smurf. While getting my smurf to g4 as well. still won. I don't think "better Zeds than you'll ever see in your life" counts since, well you know, eu mid laners. half of your pro scene in murica is eu mid laners or koreans. I'd get if you'd say any other role, but sorry. NA mids are quite worse than other servers. Including your zeds. And the fact still stands, the QSS doesn't' work vs Zed. And I still get downvoted for your mistake, lovely. But hey, you still refuse to play Zed a little amount of 10 games to see why others complain about him. Wow, shocking.
> [{quoted}](name=Serika Zero,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EWRw90A9,comment-id=0007000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-19T15:56:53.300+0000) > > and i was playing against a leblank smurf in euw, that's actually a challanger and was streaming on his smurf. While getting my smurf to g4 as well. > still won. > > I don't think "better Zeds than you'll ever see in your life" counts since, well you know, eu mid laners. > half of your pro scene in murica is eu mid laners or koreans. > > I'd get if you'd say any other role, but sorry. NA mids are quite worse than other servers. Including your zeds. > And the fact still stands, the QSS doesn't' work vs Zed. And I still get downvoted for your mistake, lovely. > > But hey, you still refuse to play Zed a little amount of 10 games to see why others complain about him. Wow, shocking. 1. Lemme see the clip of you beating the LB and proof of that being your account. You can op.gg me any time and see the game vs. the Zed. All I see when i look at your account is a match vs. bots and that's already a fantastic sign. 2. I'd wager Stylish is the best Zed player in the west. I've played vs. him a number of times. I still don't feel that Zed is particularly oppressive. 3. I pointed out the QSS was a mistake that I made due to tiredness and not paying attention to the post/champion I was writing about. Do you really want to die on that hill? 4. I try practice Zed in normals. The more I play him the more I realize his glaring flaws. The champion is very obviously not as strong as people make him out to be. He lacks the consistent pressure and wave control of other mids, and while he more killing power his kill pattern has so much more counterplay than most of the champions that also plague low elo. tl;dr git gud
: > [{quoted}](name=Rock MD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EWRw90A9,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-06-19T04:11:47.702+0000) > > He still has the same counterplay, including dodging his shurikens, Zhonya's, QSS, teamfight, and keep track of what shadows he's used. He also has no lane presence for the first 3-4 waves so you can set up massively for him. > Are you the OP ? because it sounds like you didn't play as Zed or against Zed in like 4 seasons QSS no longer removes his ult. You should reevaluate all your points about Zed, maybe play him 5-10 times, then come back to us and say what you learned (besides the QSS is useless)
> [{quoted}](name=Serika Zero,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EWRw90A9,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-06-19T05:02:55.210+0000) > > Are you the OP ? because it sounds like you didn't play as Zed or against Zed in like 4 seasons > > QSS no longer removes his ult. You should reevaluate all your points about Zed, maybe play him 5-10 times, then come back to us and say what you learned (besides the QSS is useless) Nah I was just thinking about the counterplay to Morde and I blanked out and said QSS. Fact of the matter is I play vs. better Zeds than you'll ever see in your life. Just played vs. a Zed smurf (65% winrate over 260 games, Master tier, fresh account) and I didn't die until the last teamfight. I don't think he's an issue because he's very easy to control in the first 3-4 minutes of the laning phase and you can use that to set the tempo for the rest of the lane. But most people see this game as a fighting game and it shows when they think Zed is OP.
: 300+ consecutive games banning Zed - Heres a few things I've learned.
> [{quoted}](name=Dope Solo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EWRw90A9,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-06-19T01:53:30.951+0000) > > 1. Worth it, meaning no other single ban has more capacity for making a match fair/playable. Yuumi, lmao. Champion is gross and chokes out games when she's even. > 2. No other champ has the same capacity for roaming and wrecking an entire game all by itself. Talon > 3. Riot deletes anti-Zed posts. You mean like the Zed/Yasuo posts that go up to +50 once a week? > 4. Counterplay in league exists, just not on Zed who's been welfare pumped time and again into some rioters faker wet dream. He still has the same counterplay, including dodging his shurikens, Zhonya's, QSS, teamfight, and keep track of what shadows he's used. He also has no lane presence for the first 3-4 waves so you can set up massively for him. > 5. His range + damage on Q is toxic and shouldn't exist. It's on a long CD, it's very easily punishable as he no longer has tools to control the wave, and buying armor goes a long way into making it not very much damage. > 6. His escape capacity is extremely toxic and shouldn't exist. It's got a 20+ second CD and can't be used if he's using it for his "toxic damage". > 7. His wave clear is extremely strong for ZERO mana. His waveclear also forces him to get into melee range of the wave, making him a very easy target for skillshots. It is strong, conditional waveclear and when he activates that condition it's very easy to punish him. At the end of the day you can ban whatever the hell you want but none of these points are good. EDIT: was writing this half afk. QSS doesn't work on Zed ultimate.
: Master Yi should not be able to build %health damage items and then go full tank.
Lmaooo getting shit on in a Yi comp with no enchanters. That's incredible.
Rylalei (EUNE)
: PSA to midlaners
1. Gameplay is not your vent space. Please do it elsewhere. 2. If the midlaner is down in cs, it's not because he's incapable of csing in a 1v0 scenario? Obviously they got destroyed in lane and that enabled their midlaner to roam, and the guy is just trying to play catch up. Suboptimal strategy? Sure. But people tend to do that when they got absolutely destroyed in lane.
: I rarely build Luden's anymore, the goal of a burst mage is to kill them with one rotation when you catch them with cc so you shouldn't need much cdr for most characters. The damage passive is nice but its better for poke characters, Morello's also gives nice damage and the grievous wounds passive is super relevant mid-late game. If you are mostly using your shortest cd spell in lane and only using your cc spells to finish them off then you don't need the mana either, especially with Ahri, not so much with the others you listed. Also, the health it gives you can help you survive enemy burst a lot as well. I build Luden's on aram though for the mana gain on level from lost chapter XD Also, cdr's effectiveness is mostly on long cd spells which you shouldn't be casting much. If your cc skills are off of cooldown your enemy has to respect it and play around it, but if you cast it even if you land it they will have a window of opportunity for a counterattack. Edit: I would definitely go Luden's if you aren't confident with managing your mana on your character or are playing long range poke/siege type of strat.
> [{quoted}](name=Zezockary,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2lVxMjqT,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-06-16T20:47:20.806+0000) > > I rarely build Luden's anymore, the goal of a burst mage is to kill them with one rotation when you catch them with cc so you shouldn't need much cdr for most characters. The damage passive is nice but its better for poke characters, Morello's also gives nice damage and the grievous wounds passive is super relevant mid-late game. > > If you are mostly using your shortest cd spell in lane and only using your cc spells to finish them off then you don't need the mana either, especially with Ahri, not so much with the others you listed. > > Also, the health it gives you can help you survive enemy burst a lot as well. > > I build Luden's on aram though for the mana gain on level from lost chapter XD > > Also, cdr's effectiveness is mostly on long cd spells which you shouldn't be casting much. If your cc skills are off of cooldown your enemy has to respect it and play around it, but if you cast it even if you land it they will have a window of opportunity for a counterattack. > > Edit: I would definitely go Luden's if you aren't confident with managing your mana on your character or are playing long range poke/siege type of strat. And then the enemy builds Hexdrinker. What do you do now? Fact of the matter is mages can't oneshot most characters, and the ones they can there's enough counterplay to prevent it. You might as well just maximize your utility and CC and rotations.
: Sorry if I'm wrong I don't play mages, but don't they sell it mid-late game?
No their site has gotten really buggy lately. Idk what it is but it's damn near unusable. > [{quoted}](name=Nerf Qiyana,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2lVxMjqT,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-06-16T20:37:47.708+0000) > > Sorry if I'm wrong I don't play mages, but don't they sell it mid-late game? No 20% CDR and all that mana is way too useful for late-game DPS.
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Rock MD

Level 226 (NA)
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