: Out off curiosity, what is your problem w/ mage supports? Is it just traditional APCs competing in the support champion pool, the current meta and game state, risk-reward atm, or? I would also argue that this change is only a potential slight buff to supports who keep themselves on a small leash. It takes quite a while for that 5% gold increase to match dumping your tribute stacks w/ poke before backing. I want to say that this change is as controversial as your post in general, but I don't know if there's a way to easily suss out who are the support mains and who are just some random SELFISH blokes.
My problem with mage supports is that they can carry the lane by themselves, with or without the adc being viable. People playing mid-laners as supports only forces Riot to focus on nerfing them, and makes the actual supports never get looked at. For instance, im going to use Brand as another example. Riot has messed with him over and over again doing tiny little nerfs and buffs here and there trying to balance him out, yet he can still hard carry bot lane in lower elo because of his kit and damage potential so early on in the game. Now take a traditional support, or actually lets pick two champions meant for the support role. Braum and Taric. Both of these champions have gone a WHILE without a nerf or buff that changed anything significant about them, and they are arguably both not in good spots. Braum Q scaling with health instead of AP, Taric Heal being essentially useless early game due to mana costs, they just dont have good things going for them, except their potential to actually support, and they do it well, sometimes.... But Riot hasn't helped them out because other champions get all the spotlight. So to sum it up, my problem is that mage-supports ruin the role of support. Most have free harass, as much utility as a regular support, but scale much harder and much faster. A lux support vs a Nami support, the Nami gets hit by a Q, E, Ult in lane phase and is most likely dead if the enemy adc does anything. Both have a frostfang. Lets say Nami all ins Lux, she doesn't do half the damage the Lux can deal, and now most of her mana is gone. It's simply not fair, mid lane champions scale better, and supports don't.
Saezio (EUNE)
: Even better, let relic shield generate 1 more stack per upgrade.
That too, but late game most teams dont let the support use it anyways.
Rioter Comments
: ~5% increase in gold on hit removes option of getting quest progress when your ADC dies or backs prematurely It is a massive nerf to actual supports too.
I have to disagree. The mentality of support, and playing as such, looks good in the eyes of this change, and most of us dedicated support players agree with the changes. The players who believe mid-lane mages should be allowed to come bot and make the game not fun for everyone are the ones who disagree, because they won't be allowed to hard carry lanes without their adc, like they have been in these recent patches. Why do you think in low ELO Brand is permabanned? Instead of finding a way to nerf champions who sweep the support role when they shouldn't, Riot changed the items around to benefit actual supports. And i think that works well.
: maybe if you didn't get punished for farming this wouldn't have even happened
Well the bounty system should just go back to, "If you have more kills you're worth more gold"
: Said like someone whose not played support in their life This "hotfix" is like "well we've done some serious damage to akali, irelia, Zoe... We should murder something bigger.... Something no one would miss!" *riot turns to supports* "Yes a whole 2/3 of the support roster shall suffer" And meanwhile we're just praying our ADC decides to grace us with their presence so we can make money Like they honestly didn't think when they released this. They'll talk to LL Stylish about zed changes but won't consult a single support player before this? Come on riot
My favorite and best role is support, no need to try to attack my opinion with insults like that. And anyways, The role of a support is to be there for the adc, to wait and aid them, too many players think support should be allowed to be a carry role, AND IT SHOULDN'T BE. EVERY other game in existence that is decent has a system where if you pick a support type, you are significantly weaker than everybody else, WHEN YOURE ALONE, BUT stronger then youre helping somebody. Supports can still make money, do you not know about Relic shield? That has a leash and after a few games you get used to it and move on. Riot didnt buff the gold that gave, they buffed gold from the other too. The changes reward support players who play as a support, and punishes players who pick mid-laners and play them bot lane. Ex. Brand, Velkox, Lux, Zoe, Even Ahri and Lissandra can support because of their kits and freepoke abilities. Players like you, are why Riot doesn't take us all seriously. Because no matter what they do you'll disagree with it and complain without even realizing how good it is. this change is good, end of story. If you don't like it, don't start playing support. I'd say don't continue, but you clearly don't otherwise you'd agree with the majority of us support mains that find this change to be a positive one.
Lakrosin (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=SUCC Ghast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dTK5Lk2z,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-02-13T02:16:20.839+0000) > > Ancient coin basically already depended on the adc to last hit for the coins. Wait what? Minions kill each other too you know. If you are defending tower as Janna with the shield that can actually prevent damage to objectives, you will get gold drops with coin as well. Any support main knows this.
yes but gold drops are less worth under tower than if you cs yourself when the adc is away. It really comes down to, at that point 1. "Do i want to get progress towards my wards?" or 2. "Do i want a small gold advantage by farming this wave under tower while my adc is away/dead?"
: Weird world where Soraka is considered a poke mage... But it is true. Spell thief will be better on supports it’s meant for and worse on some supports that wound up taking it anyways (looking at you Rakan). Also, your comment about auto filled supports made me laugh. Recently I played against a pantheon support who didn’t even take a support item. I couldn’t help but jokingly think “welp, autofills cant get much worse anyways”
exactly lol, glad i made ya laugh. I've seen Zoe supports (which im sure isn't awful but these ones were), and i play Ahri support sometimes. Panth suppport could work too if the person played support often
Paroe (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=SUCC Ghast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wLWJVH8U,comment-id=000100000000000200000000,timestamp=2019-02-13T04:47:31.831+0000) > > Well sadly, as a support thats just our fate. I honestly only support when im duo because theres communication. Solo support is worse than top lane lol to be honest thats why i enjoy mage supports. Velkoz, Brand, Zoe, Zyra, Morgana... theyre champions who are capable of functioning on their own and have their own agency rather than being an extension of the marksman like Soraka, Janna, Lulu, Braum, and Thresh are.
whoa man crit Thresh is a threat
Lakrosin (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Paroe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wLWJVH8U,comment-id=0001000000000002000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-13T04:50:24.221+0000) > > to be honest thats why i enjoy mage supports. Velkoz, Brand, Zoe, Zyra, Morgana... theyre champions who are capable of functioning on their own and have their own agency rather than being an extension of the marksman like Soraka, Janna, Lulu, Braum, and Thresh are. Sometimes I feel like playing Soraka and healing a cannon minion because my ADC gets THAT BRAIN DEAD. Like holy shit. Shields towers, buffing minions, etc. That is something I would love to use on a support. If I can't have complete agency over objectives, at least let me support the objectives. But I quit this game because all the dumb as hell decisions Riot has been making. So, why does my opinion matter? lul Just sad seeing once a good game fall.
Game can be fun, if you play with friends, and trollshame you get reported for it in norms
Lakrosin (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=SUCC Ghast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wLWJVH8U,comment-id=0001000000000002,timestamp=2019-02-13T04:38:57.726+0000) > > A lot of players who play support dont like the idea of having to SUPPORT their adc. They instead want the ability to solo lane and honestly thats why they don't support the change. It's actually more the fact that we have so much dependability on our ADC that when our ADC is brain dead, there is nothing useful we can do.
Well sadly, as a support thats just our fate. I honestly only support when im duo because theres communication. Solo support is worse than top lane lol
Lakrosin (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=SUCC Ghast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wLWJVH8U,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-02-13T04:40:01.841+0000) > > I brought up Soraka because she is a pick that should be a support, as where Brand and Lissandra and Velkoz should not be Well we agree on that. Did I miss something then? It seems you said this patch makes her better but I'm reading some of your posts that seem to suggest otherwise as well.
I don't believe this will be particularly helpful for her,. however it isn't bad
Baker I (NA)
: Honestly more needs to be done to nerf mages in the bot lane, they completely run over low elo games, I see people complain about the "nerfs" to coin/spell but they forget that {{item:3302}} was already like this and has been repeatedly nerfed into the ground for the past 2 seasons. I couldn't care less that the lux support rushing luden's first item can't proc her stacks without the adc with her.
Exactly, i agree mid lane mages shouldn't be overpowering every support in the game.
Heretics (EUW)
: just a few posts bellow, https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/Tu0VzhdE-wtf-support-items-just-wow just a heads up i did not -1 u.
i actually commented on that post, and i understand his frustration but the new items are good in the eyes of most support mains that are commenting
: i actually really like this change. It's a buff for actual supports and takes away the BS cheese in top and stuff.
Exactly, most of the "support mains" ive seen today talking about it are in agreement that is a good change.
: its really not, i said the same thing https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/aZEVyqf4-psa-the-spell-thiefs-change-isnt-as-bad-as-it-seems
Players just like to complain is all, most of the people crying over this dont play support lol
Lakrosin (NA)
: I like how you brought up Soraka... When her E is a priority skill in laning phase over W and Q but somehow this is 'healthy' for her. Note: Just because her winrate is good doesn't mean she is in a good spot. This isn't how Riot originally created her to be. It's not Rocket science to realize she was meant to poke with Q, heal with W, and have a side of E. Not poke and do massive damage with E and only increasing W to hurt herself less with every heal.
I brought up Soraka because she is a pick that should be a support, as where Brand and Lissandra and Velkoz should not be
: You do know the point of the "no farm support item" top lane build **isn't** to get vision right? It's not even team based. It's entirely to make the other laner's life hell by constantly harassing them and ignoring farming
A lot of players who play support dont like the idea of having to SUPPORT their adc. They instead want the ability to solo lane and honestly thats why they don't support the change.
: Except those other two "x only" items are actually dependent on hard coded things. "Support" isn't.
wow a moderator commented on my post hi
Rioter Comments
: Thanks for ruining supports with the 9.3 hotfix
As a support main on my main, i gotta say this is only a nerf to frostfang. Ancient coin basically already depended on the adc to last hit for the coins, and since there isnt a cooldown, the support can simply farm when adc leaves lane and get gold anyways. Frostfang however, this a nerf. No matter what way you look at it, caster supports got nerfed by this hard. Now if riot removes the cooldown for csing on frostfang, then its a buff for the same reasoning as ancient coin.
: > [{quoted}](name=SUCC Ghast,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=JAupA1xc,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-02-11T14:37:19.058+0000) > > But Ti"bb"ers > double letters > coincidence > or proof?? you do know that's how you spell tibbers, right?
its a joke about the double AA"s in other darkin lol
: I heard the haunted toilet in the Institute might also be a darkin. Ghastly sounds are heard from there and those who go in sometimes don't return.
: Double letters doesn't mean anything if it's not double A. By that logic A"nn"ie herself would be darkin, as would Camille, Cassiopeia, Ekko, Evelynn, Fiddlesticks, Fizz, Illaoi, Janna, Kassadin, Kennen, Lee Sin, Lissandra, Luxanna, Neeko, Nidalee, Willump, Orianna, Ornn, Poppy, Quinn, Rammus, Teemo, Ziggs, and a bunch of others.
: Tibbers doesn't have a double A anywhere in his name
But Ti"bb"ers double letters coincidence or proof??
d00mface (EUW)
: I think people are forgetting something about the Darkin...
Couldn't every item in the game have a Darkin attached to it. I mean theoretically, Panth could get new lore that his shield is actually a host, and thats how he's so blah blah blah. It's crazy to think about, but imagine the skin he'd get.
: Tibbers is a focus for Annie's magic, though not necessarily the source of her power. He's also her last relic of her late mother, who may have enchanted the bear herself to be able to come alive. (Amoline was, after all, a powerful mage.) Though this just isn't how darkin work (read some more lore), there are other possibilities: If anyone's spirit is in Tibbers, it's Amoline's.
: this may also sound crazy, but i think Tibbers might actually be her deceased dad. after the fire which killed both him and Annie's mom, her dad's spirit must have went inside Tibbers and when she summons him, it's really her dad protecting her like any parent would.
That'd be a really cool concept as well. I wish some champions had certain things about them explained. Like Annies Tibbers, or Sivir's ability to spellshield
: Lack of evidence against something does not confirm it. That's not how evidence works.
I'm not trying to say it does, in the post i suggest the idea, and ask if there is any definitive proof that would make this not possible. That OBVIOUSLY implies i have no proof for it, or against it, and want feedback from somebody who might. You stating a fact already known to me isn't helpful sorry
: There's basically zero evidence that this is the case. I'm going to say no.
tamaya (NA)
: "aa" Ti"bb"ers {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}}
: It's highly unlikely that Tibbers is a Darkin. Demon, maybe, but a Darkin would have snapped her ages ago.
What if the darkin feels sympathy for Annie? Or is maybe only using her as a conduit to unleash its strengths or whatever. It would explain how Annie came to have her powers in a way.
: I disagree with the honor level 0 its INSANELY difficult to get honor level 0 if you are at all a decent human being if you get honor level 0 you 100% deserve it it should be hard to get out of so people might wake up and realize they shouldn't be toxic its not difficult to not be toxic like I said just be a decent human being and you can get honor 5
See, you take a very aggressive stance against toxic players. I have two perma-banned accounts, but my actions to get those bans were pre-honor change. Once a chat restriction is gone, most of us toxic players forget about the punishments and continue to be toxic. Now back then, toxic was more serious than it is now. Nowadays you can get a chat ban for typing a single word in chat, just one word one time, and over years of gameplay that be the only toxic thing you do, and you can get suspensions or chat bans. Honor level 0 is just as toxic as the players who earn it. Also, i agree with honor level 0 being a thing, but i believe there should be a line to where, chat bans can only ever drop you to 1, because words are just words and you can mute people and block them. Afking and griefing should be dropable to level 0 , because they ruin games, not some guy cursing his team out.
Jinto (OCE)
: This is 12 year old levels of fanfiction right here
But is it possible lol, it would explain the Summoning of Tibbers
Rioter Comments
: Riot will probably try to do some "edgy" Ivern skin to push the opposite fantasy instead of saving camps he condemns their souls to oblivion and stuff like that
i wouldn't doubt it, that'd be cool, but Ivern is goofy i want a goofy skin lol
Kazekiba (NA)
: Elementalist/Freljord/Infernal Ivern have long been skins I wanted. That or Noxus Ivern. To sell the skin better, include Noxus Irelia. Unrelated but Order of the Lotus Taliyah still isnt a thing???
Many skin ideas... Much chances for Riot to make easy money
: Riot missed an opportunity to have X-Mas Tree Ivern. i would have been happy with Snow Pine Ivern. we could also have Undead Ivern who is basically a dead tree. branches but no leaves or anything like that. just the branches.
i mean, there are a lot of easy skin ideas, but maybe they could do a "Seasons Ivern" to include those
Rioter Comments
: Yeah. Maokai pretty much has Old Uninspired Skins (Charred + Totemic) + Event Skins (FIFA, Harrowing, Snowdown, April Fools) + Victorious Maokai. Maokai needs a new skins that shows off Riot's current capabilities. Poor fucking Ivern by the way. When Riot started doing skin variants I though for sure that he was getting a Candy Cane King Ivern variant for Snowdown.
And Daisy could've been an ice golem...... Honestly Elemental Ivern could be a cool idea...... Fire Golem, Water Golem, Earth (regular Daisy), Air golem could be like.... a tornado thing, and many other variantions that would look cool..... im boutta make a post.
HeartVine (OCE)
: Probably the latter, but you are a bit of a legend, taking the time to respond to most comments. You have my respect.
well you know, this is the league of Legends 8)
: Elderwood Needs to be introduced again
2 Downvotes guys, not bad i wonder if this post will still be relevant or if it'll just disappear into the boards void lol
EdgeLady (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=FlashnFuse,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=3sarhqMs,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-02-08T00:19:58.945+0000) > > Elderwood Kindred please > https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZ8aGajVAAEWbmy.jpg > > They need a new skin. That's another one that would work super well! By the way, I am expecting Blackthorn Morgana to become a fallen angel of the Emerald Chapel (thus part of the Coven) and Viridian Kayle to be one of the angels of the chapel that Emerald Taric serves. So just patiently waiting for their dual rework here.
Do you think they would then update the Skin for Taric as well? Make him even more fabulous
xZabaksx (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=3sarhqMs,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-07T19:27:10.623+0000) > > Elderwood Ivern legendary But why legendary? Would fit perfectly for an epic skin. Ivern the cruel would be a good candidate for a legendary
Maybe Ivern the Cruel would be Elderwood themed, or would that not fit in with lore?
d00mface (EUW)
: I love the aesthetic of the Elderwood skins. I have Elderwood Hecarim and he's super pretty! I love me a big tree horse. Naturally I saw this fan concept of Elderwood Aatrox and have a mighty need: https://twitter.com/neburaart/status/1049275719724007427 ~~Maybe someday it could become a reality. Let me dream. ~~
That looks... AMAZING!! There are so many opportunities for skins that a lot of players would totally buy, and these are it.
HeartVine (OCE)
: {{champion:498}} {{champion:497}} I'm just gonna leave this here.
Even they could easily have the elderwood skin... Although i'd be fione without seeing another skin for them anytime soon
: Change sherwood ashe to elderwood ashe, her ulti would fire a gold crystal arrow..
Honestly like... who actually uses or wants sherwood ashe lol
: > [{quoted}](name=Luminier,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=3sarhqMs,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-02-07T21:49:16.640+0000) > > Elderwood {{champion:83}} would be amazing. Imagine a gnarled ancient looking ent maiden. You mean like Maokai?
Aren't they both from the Shadow Isles, or am i wrong?
: After its reboot with the Coven theme, it would be, to put it frankly, stupid for Riot to not capitalize on this high-fantasy theme that resonated with so many. Yes the future-techno skins are nice and sell well, but the hype that Leona, Camille, and Lissandra got surpasses that of the hype that any Program or (recent) PROJECT skin received.
Exactly, the skins look beautiful and they just flow so well with so many champions to where it'd be easy to do.
: https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/intermediary/f/1f3c7f77-f51b-4fed-8d67-5563b61ea07d/d9ioccc-c0681329-7d8d-496a-9c95-9056e34aefe4.jpg/v1/fill/w_1126,h_710,q_70,strp/elderwood_fiddlesticks_by_korhiper_d9ioccc-pre.jpg I also saw concepts for Elderwood Maokai and Ivern somewhere a while ago and they both haven't had a new skin for 1000+ days.
i grinded Maokai to mastery 5 without playing another champion on my main account, and tbh his skins are uhhh..... booty. But an elderwood skin would be amazing
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SUCC Ghast

Level 64 (NA)
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