Bârd (NA)
: If it's done properly, we gain dozens of buildpaths for every champion and lose *nothing of value*. Barely any champions would even need to be touched. {{item:3031}} 80 Attack Damage UNIQUE Passive - Crit Damage: Increases the multipliers of any crits by 0.25. UNIQUE Passive - Critical Strike: Wielder has a 30% chance to crit for 2x damage {{item:3086}} Zeal and its derivative items no longer grant critical strike. They now grant a moderate amount of attack damage. {{item:3508}} Either doesn't exist or has been reworked. {{champion:23}} "Tryndamere has up to a 35-50% chance (based on level) to crit for 2x damage, based on his current *fury*". {{champion:157}} Removed doubling crit chances. "Yasuo has a 25/50/75/100% chance to crit for 1.8x damage at levels 1/6/11/16". {{champion:22}} "Enemies afflicted with Frost Shot take 10-50% bonus damage from Ashe's basic attacks" {{champion:51}} {{champion:133}} {{champion:498}} Removed crit chance ratios. AD ratios on these abilities now additionally scale with level. Harrier CD lowered based on level. {{champion:203}} Removed crit damage ratio on E. Multiplier increased by 5%. {{champion:202}} Removed crit chance > AD conversion. AS > AD conversion increased from 25% to 44%. ___ The only champions you even need to consider here are the ones with Crit built directly into their kits, and even in those cases *you don't need to do anything*. As long as you're replacing those items with something good, it doesn't matter. If you don't believe me, lets see how one of the biggest Crit ADC's, Draven, would do with Dota's items, in which their IE equivalent costs 5330 gold. As it turns out... he would be completely fine. If Draven were ported into Dota 2 right now as a ranged strength hero, his build could contain almost any combination of: * Phase Boots * Power Treads * Hurricane Pike * Mjolnir * Satanic * Desolator * Daedelus * Diffusal Blade * Monkey King Bar * Black King Bar * Heart of Tarrasque * Sange and Yasha * Assault Cuirass * Bloodthorn * Blink Dagger * Drum of Endurance * Nullifyer * Moon Shard * Linken's Sphere * Hood of Defiance * Aghanim's Scepter * Hand of Midas * Boots of Travel * Silver Edge * Eye of Skadi * Heaven's Halberd The Marksman rework didn't fail because League's system for Crit is some sacred thing that can't be changed. The Marksman rework failed because *League's items suck*, and Riot refuses to fix that issue. Hell, if Riot wanted to, they could literally build unique crit chances/multipliers into each champion's BASE STATS, but they won't.
>If it's done properly, we gain dozens of buildpaths for every champion and lose nothing of value. No champion has "dozens" of build paths in a world where analysts get paid to theorycraft optimal builds. At the end of the day, every champion will have specific core items, supported by a handful situational items. I mean it's really cute to pretend that you can build half the items in the game. I should be able to relate since I OTP a champion that's been played competitively in all 5 positions and still has quite a few distinct soloQ viable item builds. But really, every champion has an optimal role/position/item build. And it's not an item rework that will change that perception. And seriously, looking at your list makes me wonder why you don't build Wit's End, Triforce or even Spirit Visage on Draven. Because they'd be more viable and make more sense than half the DotA items you listed.
: Crit overall needs a rework. The Marksmen update didn't fix that.
You don't explain *why* it needs a rework and what there is to gain from it. How would it make the game better to change it?
Bârd (NA)
: The state of Crit in league is a big part of why item diversity sucks ass.
What do we gain from wrecking the build paths for a handful champions? The idea of having to rework a dozen champions that are closely tied to crit for the sake of change and "variety" is a lot more disruptive than the ill fated (and mostly reverted) 2018 marksmen update.
Saezio (EUNE)
: All those people that defend this system. I automatically assume you believe it's harder to get a B in a victory than an S in a defeat. Think about that for a second.
All you need to do to get an A+ or better in a defeat is sit in a sidelane and farm as soon as the game looks like a loss.
: > [{quoted}](name=Sailor Mint,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qw4AEAey,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2019-09-08T16:35:11.178+0000) > > If it wasn't for Teleport, you'd basically be forced to ARAM every game as it wouldn't be safe to send anyone bot lane with Baron alive. > > You could get away with it back in the day because people didn't systematically start Baron the second someone showed up bot lane (people were pretty bad back then). Also, while it gives less combat stats than old Baron, new Baron is much better at actually taking down structures and closing games. > > Back when Top lane irrelevant? it's called wave management, which people don't have these days because teleport drained all their knowledge.
That wasn't particularly relevant in the grand scheme of things. Season 2 was a clusterfuck of ARAM 5v5 teamfights until it shifted towards assassins. Season 3 and 4 were assassin dominated metas where games were won by picking off the underleveled support with no items and taking Baron in the powerplay. Top lane started being relevant when Teleport became widespread.
: > [{quoted}](name=FSRER,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qw4AEAey,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-09-08T15:26:30.375+0000) > > Teleport has already been nerfed to the fucking ground (because of ADC's taking it) and ignite buffed into a spell replacing barrier and exhaust because of the pure damage it gives. nerfing teleport doesn't matter when it's entire concept looms anti-fun over the game.
If it wasn't for Teleport, you'd basically be forced to ARAM every game as it wouldn't be safe to send anyone bot lane with Baron alive. You could get away with it back in the day because people didn't systematically start Baron the second someone showed up bot lane (people were pretty bad back then). Also, while it gives less combat stats than old Baron, new Baron is much better at actually taking down structures and closing games. >you weren't here before teleport got popular in top lane no doubt. You're not going back to days of 1v1 Bruisers while the remaining players play a 4v4.
iiGazeii (NA)
: I think it's very possible for low-mobility champions to be fun. The new Morde is fun. Illaoi is fun. Brand, Kayle, Tahm Kench, Xayah, Ivern. We have a ton of "fun" immobile champions. The problem is that mobile champions don't really trade anything for that mobility. They deal comparable damage and have comparable utility to immobile champions, yet they have mobility on top of that enables them to be more aggressive and engage on their enemy, or get out of danger when they overstep. Mobility is incredibly powerful in a game like League that heavily depends on ranges, spacing, and positioning. It should come at a steep cost. Mobile champions should do less damage, be less tanky, offer less utility, and/or have shorter range than their immobile counterparts to offset the dynamic flexibility their kits have to offer. In terms of game design, the devs need to reevaluate how much mobility actually costs out of a champion's power budget. Right now, it's not enough.
You just brought up champions nobody play, effectively disproving your theory. Champion Popularity is a mix of power and fun. Fun champions remain relatively popular even when they're weak. Boring champions fade into obscurity when they're not overpowered. Your mid laner isn't picking Zed into a team full of tanks because it's stronger, but because he think Zed is more fun than something like Cass.
koshkyra (NA)
: If demolish range is higher than lissandra’s auto attack range
Because 600 skill range is shorter than 550 edge to edge.
: sadly the match making system is beyond flawed probably even more so in ranked now I am unsure if this is 100% accurate, so don't quote me on it as far as I know, league uses a rather similar system for ranked that smite uses which is pretty much just 1) Queue up for a ranked match (with your chosen positions) 2) System searches for players to fit into a game (with little to no difference in rank) 3) X amount of time passes unable to find enough people 4) System broadens the search (allowing for greater rank difference) 5) repeat steps 3 and 4 until enough players are found that downside is that league also has the hidden mmr system to skew that process up it doesn't matter what your physical rank is (or if you even have one to begin with), you are given a match making rank according to some logic only riot knows this little bit of extra nonsense makes things difficult, because you can have people that are unranked physically but have a gold mmr, or are plat but have bronze/silver mmr, and thus the system ends up giving you a match that looks weird what you speak of is rather common in ranked match making and i'm unsure if there is a fix riot can implement without trashing the current system and redoing it from scratch
Unless you're high Diamond+, it won't get past step 2. The only arguments are: "Are people getting their secondary position (or autofilled) facing people who got their primary position fair". And even if you answer no to that question, you need to remember that before position selection it was 100% RNG.
Eedat (NA)
: > outside of SoloQ You mean outside the modes 99.99% of people play? Seriously?
She's not meta warping and she's not picked in competitive. There's a reason why the top topic about Ahri is her skins, because nobody cares about her SoloQ presence. It's not much of a debate that you'd rather play with/against an Ahri than the more frustrating alternatives.
Eedat (NA)
: Why do you think they keep Ahri S tier at all times? Oh sorry, "nerfed" from 53% winrate to 52.9%
Alkaîd (NA)
: Knock ups used to be rare/unique
Displacements don't stack, they overwrite each other. Most notable example being Zac's ultimate being cancelled by friendly knowups.
Juice (EUNE)
: Duo queue should straight up be forbidden. Anything that gives an unfair advantage should be forbidden.
Where do you draw the line? * Fancy gaming peripherals? * Recent hardware? * Reliable internet?
: Context, please.
>Conqueror (Precision Keystone) [New Effect] "Attacks or spells that deal damage to an enemy champion grant 3-15 Adaptive Force (based on level) for 3s (8s for melee). Stacks up to 5 times. When fully stacked, heal for 10% of damage dealt to champions and convert 10% of that damage to True Damage." It's basically the lovechild of Warlord's Bloodlust and Fervor of Battle, that also happens to work on DPS mages.
: wtf is Conqueror?
Nobody needs help killing tanks when the only one getting played is Sion (and to some lesser extent, Sejuani).
: Akali Nerfs You Can't Be Real!
You're implying that old Akali wasn't a problem. >Her main key of being an assassin is that she has some sustain in the lane Now 0 ! Nothing screams assassin more than lane sustain.
: my point is that unless you play someone like {{champion:122}} nasus will more or less just ignore you and out sustain you and then once around level 6 he will just kill you
Nasus is also mediocre lategame. He's basically Jax, without Leap or Counterstrike. Doesn't matter how much damage you deal if you have no target access and explode when CC'd.
Glîtchy (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Sailor Mint,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=unsZK11t,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-27T03:22:13.649+0000) > > But you get 1k+ BE per level on average including Glorious capsules and FWotD. that's too much of a tedious grind, 6 levels plus the other stuff is too much grinding for 1 champ
It used to be 80-100 games per 6300 champion.
Glîtchy (NA)
: Anyone else annoyed by the BE system?
But you get 1k+ BE per level on average including Glorious capsules and FWotD.
: Why aren't there more servers?
Splitting the playerbase isn't a decision you take lightly. Reasonable population and ping are what's important. Splitting NA would impact population (the majority of people are East coast).
: Mages are strong at the moment. **RIOT, STOP WITH THE EMPHASIS ON MAGES.** If mages can sit on an Oblivion Orb for the Magic Pen, why can't AD champs have something similar for a DEFENSIVE purpose. Every champion already has 1/2 the base MR as Armor, AP items have more AP per item than AD items, and there's already a severe shortage of MR Items that aren't super situational. Edge of Night already lost its MR component. Mages generally have better wave clear, decent range for laning, and AOE in later fights. Luden gives them a one item power spike and makes it basically needless to worry about mana management, while a ton of AP items are just health stacking ones now, meaning that mages are pretty tanky in terms of health. They might not have as reliable AAs as AD champs do, but that's moot with all of these benefits. Edit: Jesus this post is controversial as shit. 33 Upvote, 33 Downvote.
>Every champion already has 1/2 the base MR as Armor, AP items have more AP per item than AD items, and there's already a severe shortage of MR Items that aren't super situational. E Seems like you forgot that auto-attacks have a 1.0 AD ratio and 0.4-1.0 sec "cooldowns".
: > [{quoted}](name=Sailor Mint,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nvewWBtT,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-12-02T21:46:53.085+0000) > > Are we going to pretend that people know how to play the game back in 2012? Season of support was 2 seasons ago, safe to say people knew how to play by then. Atmogs era you have a point, but it was still much less of a clown fiesta than it is now.
The censer meta had little to do with supports and everything to do with ADCs. When I think of a time back when (traditional) Supports were actually dominant, it's before they nerfed vision (pre-S5, S2/S3 especially). Back when the map was lit up like a christmas tree.
: call me odd but I enjoyed the season of Support and Atmogs meta, fights were much more tactical than they are now, honestly it's like they tuned up the damage purposely to try drag in the Battle Royale crowd. Lemme tell ya Riot, it ain't gonna work. I mean yeah sure, it means that bot lane has a ton of diversity now since games tend to end by midgame so APCs are highly useful, especially lichbane builders like {{champion:112}} and {{champion:115}} or crazy bursters like {{champion:45}} and {{champion:63}}. All you had to do there is give them a power curve similar to their marksmen counterparts instead of turning up all damage so the marksmen are obsolete with the exception of {{champion:202}} {{champion:21}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:119}} and {{champion:145}} due to either having great laning or quick/cheap scaling. Heck it's gotten to the stage where if I want a scaling bot laner, I'm going for {{champion:112}} over {{champion:29}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:15}} and {{champion:18}} because he's generally strong from the moment he gets his first upgrade and has amazing team fight presence even when behind. That ain't because Viktor is OP, it's because the damage is just way too high.
>call me odd but I enjoyed the season of Support and Atmogs meta, fights were much more tactical than they are now, honestly it's like they tuned up the damage purposely to try drag in the Battle Royale crowd. Are we going to pretend that people know how to play the game back in 2012?
iiGazeii (NA)
: Stat Shards from Champ Select
I don't know about you, but if I'm having to change more than just stat shard (i.e.: Nullmagic Orb) when i'm facing a mage vs physical assassin.
: Bounty system is ridiculous
You do realize that he got ~6cs worth of gold from that +150g shutdown? It simply meant that your team was ahead. Also, not sure what you mean by "he had more farm when I got back to lane", it takes a minimum of 6 waves worth of minions to make up a 35cs deficit.
: Yep. I think Riot really should give her a new passive that fit her playstyle.
How much Q damage are you willing to give up for it? All her power budget is in her Q + ult.
: Did Riot Nerf Capsules?
Minimum for regular capsules is 810.
King Lego (EUNE)
: Champions in a nutshell.
That video was produced by Wired, not Riot. Meddler and Ghostcrawler had very little control over it. As for your Vel'Koz comment. In all major regions, except EUW/EUNE, his Support pick rate is significantly higher than his mid lane pick rate. Lowest mid lane pick rate in Korea (~30%), highest in Europe (~50%).
: Doesn't he have the 3rd hgihest winrate in plat+ for top lane?
I feel influence is a better metric than raw winrate when talking about champion balance and impact. He's in no way weak at the moment (especially in Gold). But he has a much lower pick/ban rate (for a similar win rate) than the top tier champions at Plat+.
5050BS (NA)
: Yep and that is why Garen is higher on the tier at #8 vs Urgots #12
That's because you're in an Elo where people have issues not getting runover by zero mobility tanks. As hard as he is stomping Silver/Gold. Garen falls off *hard* at Plat+ and is non-existent at Diamond+. And stats reflect that. Meanwhile, Urgot is a monster at higher Elo and falls horribly at low Elo. The game is balanced around Plat+.
5050BS (NA)
: Why is this allowed?
Stop looking at abilities in a vacuum, balance is about entire champion kits. Comparing single abilities is the best way to make a top tier pick look weak and lesser picks look strong. This thread is kind of ironic since Urgot is currently top tier. Meanwhile, Garen is having one of his better season, but he's still sitting at zero competitive presence and he's still significantly worse at higher Elo.
TomiMan7 (EUNE)
: Hey Is there a chance that Sorcery will get a new keystone, for mainly DoT champs? Lets be honest here aery is 90% tailored towards enchanters witch is totally fine, and comet is tried to be made into a jack of all trades keystone. I feel like every other tree cowers 95% of the champs that might go into said tree. But sorcery on the other hand is like do you wanna shield go aery do you need to stick to your target go phase rush, do you wanna deal some extra DoT go deathfir... Comet. {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}}
Pretty sure the answer is the same as always. Deathfire Touch added no gameplay.
Fízz v2 (EUW)
: Yeah without the "extra CDR becomes AD/AP" part. Idk why it wouldnt make sense if no one takes transcendence anyway
Except Transcendence is the superior option in that line on most casters and supports since the Celerity nerf. Absolute Focus is barely a rune. Not to mention, Celerity will be even more niche next patch.
: Did Preseason officially start and will my MMR be affected now?
The soft reset happens the day before the season starts. Your initial placement will be based on your MMR at the time of the reset. Climbing and tanking in pre-season will have a direct impact on your initial placement next season.
: Current balance team's game choices summed up in the Banner of Command fiasco
They reworked it in 7.12 and it was removed a year later on 8.12. It was indirectly buffed in 8.4 (stacking with Baron) and it was reverted the following patch (8.5). Only direct change was in 8.11 (intended nerfs). ----- An item can remain secret op for months. But once people discovered how to abuse Banner, it was over, we couldn't go back to the past.
: Why did Ahri get K/DA though?
Did you really expect *the* Korean champion to not get a skin for Worlds in Korea?
: 10 Banned list for each team doesn't fit anyomore
https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champions/ Sort by PBI (Pick Ban Index). Notice that the most banned champions (Akali/Irelia/Yasuo) have very low/negative PBI while Jax and Urgot are criminally underbanned. A champion being annoying/frustrating to play against doesn't mean they're strong. The only criteria for a good ban are average win rate and adjusted pick rate, them being miserable to play against doesn't make them a good ban if the average player feeds or the pick isn't overly contested.
: I don't understand what your point is. I'm saying that Meta champions nowadays seem way more oppressive than they used to. Playing against a decent fed Irelia or Akali makes trying to win just seem useless. I feel like I have an easier time dealing with a fed "hypercarry" like Vayne or Yi, since they're both pure damage mobile squishies that can be shutdown with cc. But with newer champion kits like Akali, she is pure damage but you have to play whack a mole trying to predict where she'll be in her shroud or after her 4 dashes. New Irelia's kit is the same as Akali's, and I keep trying to make ways to explain her kit, but there's so much about her Idk where to start. A fed Irelia can 1v1 well, teamfight well, AND can get objectives fast. She's tankier than a Yi or Vayne so it takes more time and abilties to kill her, plus her W, just to make her take some more time to kill. Plus she has a pretty good early game so it's hard to shut down her late game power like a Veigar. It's these new overloaded Kits, the importance Riot has put on early game, and other stuff that just make Meta champions so much more oppressive for the enemy team.
You're basically proving my point. You're complaining about how annoying to play against certain champions, even though their stats show that they're middle of the pack at best. That's separate issues. If you want to talk about actual strong meta champions in SoloQ, you should start by questioning why champions like Jax, Graves, Kha'zix, Ahri, Talon and Jhin have been sitting at the top for an entire season (in SoloQ) and outperforming all the new reworks outside of competitive play.
: Are Meta Champions, Items, etc Stronger than they used to be?
No. * Lane bullies just feel more impactful when games are short and laning matters. * Heavy health sustain in lane gives a free pass to some champions with some historically bad laning phases, especially in already favorable matchups (i.e.: Viktor). * People tend to confuse "annoying to play against" and "strong". * Bias. People remember the times they got dumpstered by Irelia/Aatrox, but don't remember all the bad ones. Their SoloQ stats are average at best. It's not because a champion is dominant in Diamond II+ and competitive that it's a strong pick for the remaining 99% of the playerbase. >I think it's due to Riot just constantly changing the game, separating Bad from Good champions more and more without realizing it. There hasn't been any major changes outside of reworks since the mid-season backlash, and basically everything is getting pushed back to Pre-season. If anything, we're in a period with an historically low number balance changes. Anyway, people wanted top lane to be relevant and more solo carry agency/less reliance on bot lane. What we currently have is what people asked for. To answer your question. Picks and team comps barely matter pre-Diamond. That's ~98% of the playerbase right there.
: Watching Worlds Mid-lane seems like the least impactful lane in this meta.
After today's games. This thread really didn't age well.
: > [{quoted}](name=AvantelWings,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=20UI0q1V,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-10-17T22:55:20.303+0000) > > It's not a channel, but rather a cast time, like Lux or Ezreal ult. The stun would be completed after the animation fully plays out. 'stun would be completed'. soo this champion which is already overbuffed gets to ignore crowd control and do his thing anyway with no negatives? (he effectively ignores the stun meant to stop ult)
Crowd control doesn't interrupt non-channeled abilities. If the animation starts, the ability will complete. It's the same for all champions in the game, but most noticeable for abilities with long cast times like Ezreal's Trueshot Barrage and Tristana's Rocket Jump.
: With the new ranking system, how would duo q work ?
Remember that your positional MMR can't be that much lower than your main MMR. Current: Effective MMR = ( "Player A MMR" + "Player B MMR" ) / 2 + "Duo Queue offset" Season 9: Effective MMR = ( "Player A Positional MMR" + "Player B Positional MMR" ) / 2 + "Duo Queue offset"
wildfox99 (EUW)
: she's basically a trollpick in high elo,the rework made her viabile only as low elo pick (she's a {{champion:86}} of the midlane),that's why if you go on /r/ahrimains you see people commplaining 24/7
> [{quoted}](name=wildfox99,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F6f3B9f9,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-07-12T23:11:22.749+0000) > > she's basically a trollpick in high elo,the rework made her viabile only as low elo pick (she's a {{champion:86}} of the midlane),that's why if you go on /r/ahrimains you see people commplaining 24/7 Ahri being mediocre at Diamond II+ really doesn't say much. She's fine for the remaining 99% of the playerbase, but as with all non-top tier picks, there's little reason to pick her if she's not one of your main champions. You can't blindly first pick her as a safe fallback pick and expect to win the game anyway. And that's not necessarily a bad thing.
: About the Ahri buff on PBE
Because she's been mediocre since her first rework/DFG removal, and the partial revert didn't do much. She's not a good assassin and is outclassed as a burst mage. The rework added a bit more damage potential, at the cost of a lot of safety. With that said, she's nowhere near as bad as some self hating Ahri mains would want you to believe.
: Riot, How do you explain this matchmaking
High MMR Gold players against Plat V lifer who can't get demoted. I guess it's unfair for the Red team Plat players who have a >50% win rate to get matched with people who likely don't care anymore because they've peaked.
: ok but i thought that i would win and lose the same amount of lp with my actual mmr...
1. OP.GG has no idea what your actual MMR is. 2. Diamond MMR requirements are ridiculously steep. You basically need to grind a tier worth of MMR per division to "keep up" with the curve. Anyway, you're playing mostly against low Diamond/high Plat players, which means your MMR isn't awful for a low Diamond, it's just nowhere near the average MMR of all Diamond V players.
ohn0se (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PGVfo3n3,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-06-02T01:06:24.409+0000) > > Because there is a surplus of ADC players and a shortage of some other position? If there's a "SURPLUS" there should be no reason for some other position to autofill...Jesus Christ....
Surplus means the supply of players is greater than the number of available slots. Therefore the excess players are autofilled to positions that need to be filled.
: To be fair, a _higher_ winrate doesn't take away from the point, unless it's above 50. It's still a big deal that a champion with less than 50% is top ban because of an unhealthy kit. Braum is okay to have a projectile-blocker because it only blocks from one direction and he isn't hyper mobile or a damaging champion. Yasuo, or really any fighter/assassin having an ability that negates any and all ranged abilities for not just them but their entire team as well isn't good in theory or in practice.
High skill cap champions should never be at a 50% overall win rate. The few mains/OTPs may hover around a 53-55% win rate, while less experienced players with sub-50% win rates will counterbalance it.
: 47% win rate champion has the highest ban rate
Do you truncate 47.84% down to 47% to fit your narrative?
: Morgana is a bit too strong right now.
Someone just lost to Morgana.
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Sailor Mint

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