: > [{quoted}](name=Sairek Ceareste,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=fuEmWqsq,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-01-17T17:15:20.448+0000) > > If I ever get a game where I had to report someone for being toxic, I usually just wait a minute or two before entering the queue again. > > Go take a bathroom break or get a drink or something if you really don't want to have a chance to get matched up with the same player again. This is penalising the victim, asking them waste there time waiting about, not really fair to ask the person who been abused to wait...This is punishing the victim.
> [{quoted}](name=LittlePinkKitten,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=fuEmWqsq,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-11-18T06:30:49.075+0000) > > This is penalising the victim, asking them waste there time waiting about, not really fair to ask the person who been abused to wait...This is punishing the victim. Necro much? What else is supposed to happen? If reports stopped people from being able to queue up with each other, people could use the report system to alter match making, especially in the much higher ranks. If they stopped the person who got reported from queuing, then people would weaponize the report system to troll people. Waiting a minute or two is no scratch off my back. There are other things I can to occupy my time for that duration easily.
: Are you using Windows 7? LOL {{sticker:sg-janna}}
> [{quoted}](name=SweetRainTv,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=NGK3Z1OE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-07-17T17:08:24.032+0000) > > Are you using Windows 7? LOL {{sticker:sg-janna}} Yes I am with the Classic Windows theme, because it has smaller window borders. I'm not really a fan of forced Windows updates.
Rioter Comments
: PBE 8.14 further damage increase on champions
> Vayne Silver Bolts (W) bonus true damage increased from [4/6/8/10/12% of target's max health] to [4/6.5/9/11.5/14% of targets max health] Well, there goes Riot's hard-on for % true damage showing again. As if tanks weren't useless enough already.
: Can someone explain to me, what's wrong with Conqueror?
My beef with Conqueror is that there is already plenty of ways to penetrate armor {{item:3147}} {{item:3814}} {{item:3036}} {{item:3071}} {{item:3142}} Black Cleaver is already huge as it REDUCES armor -- so everyone on your team benefits from it, combined with a {{item:3036}} and the tank has effectively lost approximately half of their armor from just two items. Combined with most assassins building lethality and tanks can easily have less than 100 armor unless they're building nothing but full armor. This is not even considering champions who already have very good abilities to shred through armor in the first place. But now, add 20% true damage on top of that with an additional 15~35 AD just *because*. And since you're already doing a lot of AD from all of the shred, the true damage is higher. It's not like it has a severe requirement for activating, either. I've literally seen Ezreals run Conqueror (and ignite) and have around 30K true damage to champions in a match. It's absurd. Trynameres and Master Yis do even more than that. Yi's do a LOT more than that, actually. Sometimes 70% of the damage I take from Yi is literally just true damage. My main, biggest gripe with Conqueror though is that it's going to snuff out creative design if it sticks around. Champions like Yi and Trynamere (Trynamere in my opinion has an unhealthy kit imo anyways) doing half of their damage as true damage without even building armor pen (more than half in Yi's case) just from building I.E. and having a passive is not healthy design especially when it can be quite difficult to stop them in the first place and true damage is very difficult to itemize against because health alone means nothing when an enemy is still slapping you for over 1K damage. It can take over 3,000 gold to just survive one extra hit, which when they can easily attack more than 2 times a second, isn't much at all and armor doesn't do very much either because Black Cleaver and Dominik's exists to already make half of their armor value moot. And again, this is assuming there isn't even a champion on their team that doesn't even have some form of innate shred in the first place. Not to mention with Yi, items like Thornmail or Frozen Heart are already somewhat ineffective against him since he doesn't suffer from the attack speed slow. Finally, conqueror itself in my opinion ignores interactivity in the game. Sometimes you don't even build armor pen despite the foe having lots of armor because you can just build damage and it'll work out because hey, free 20% true damage on top of a generous AD steroid. In a meta where tanks aren't getting literally nuked in 2 seconds and true damage wasn't already abundant, conqueror may work in some form, but currently it is doing nothing but contributing to a problem that people have been literally quitting over. I've been playing League since open beta. I've seen tanks be weak before, but I've never have I've seen a full tank melt so quickly to just one opponent by just auto attacking them to death as I've seen this season. I remember when true damage was quite small. Things like Twitch's passive, red buff, etc, all did single to double digits of true damage, aside from ignite or smiting a monster. Now-a-days it's common to see true damage in the 4 digits in mere seconds or even from a single ability, and tank items do not grant nearly enough health to combat that amount of true damage. People say "just build health!" If you build nothing but health though, you're going to nullify the true damage but you're going to still die very quickly to anything that's not true damage and you're VERY easily going to die that anything that damages you by % health, or damage based on missing health -- which is another problem in itself as there's also a lot of % true damage or % missing health true damage that there's also no way to counter and are built directly into many champion's kits.
: Because if Riot nerfed her the entire boards would be spammed with''WHY ARE YOU NERFING THE ONLY GOOD ADCS?1111!!!1''
> [{quoted}](name=ankoanko19,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tdXV4rKc,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-07-11T11:18:29.234+0000) > > Because if Riot nerfed her the entire boards would be spammed with''WHY ARE YOU NERFING THE ONLY GOOD ADCS?1111!!!1'' She's not even an ADC at this point. She's more of an APC. Not to be confused with the war vehicle named APC. Although she sure moves just as fast and machine guns everybody down like she was one.
: You know, league can still be fun
The thing is, the design problems of League currently still shines through heavily through ARAM. Until very recently, people were *literally* one-shotting each other in ARAM with dark harvest. It still happens, it just takes longer and sometimes games are over before that point. Assassins generally rule ARAM in most cases from my experiences, because the assassin can still get in with mark/dash, completely gimp someone, and then get out easily, leaving the opposing side constantly in a 4v5 situation. Especially true if there's a lot of AP on the enemy comp for the assassin, because the only real counter for AP champions have for them is still just {{item:3157}} , and the armor by that is usually shredded by {{item:3071}} . If not assassins, there's characters like Yi or Jax who will hop in 5v1 and still take down two or three people by nearly insta-gibbing them before they go down. Then of course, there's still the problem that poke comps are still just rapid firing machine guns, and the only counter to them is "dodge all the bullets, hyukhyuk". Get hit by two or three of them, and you're dead. I'm not saying ARAM can't be fun (because hell, it's the single only reason I still have the game installed), but it's usually still more often than not a complete stomp and the reason the stomps happen is almost always because of both team's compositions rather than any actual skill between the two teams. This was always a thing of course, but now it's more prevalent than ever before.
: Riot's Poor response to the Multiple Personal Data Leaks 28/06
I mean, it's one thing to not feel like the compensation is enough which is fine to have that view -- but what do you want them to do for you beyond this point? What WOULD satisfy you? What else should they do? It's one thing to say you're not satisfied, but you have to give more context on what they should do to help explain why you're unsatisfied other than "I've been here for a very long time and I've spent lots of money on this game!" as a reason on why the compensation wasn't enough. If that's your only reasoning, then I strongly believe that's a very poor way to look at it. In my view, every customer should be treated with the same amount of fairness. What if someone who only played a month and hasn't spent a dime had their privacy breached too like you just did? Should they receive less compensation than you did just because you've spent more money and/or played the game longer? Their private information should be just as valuable as yours, so how would that make sense? Or what about if it happened to me? I've been playing since the open *beta*. Should I receive a bigger compensation than you simply because I've played longer or spent more money on the game than you did? Do you see where I'm going with this? So please clarify on why you're not satisfied and give constructive feedback on what you believe they should do in order to handle this situation better since you're clearly unhappy.
: can anyone explain this
Well, kills and assists mean nothing by their own. It'd be more helpful to show the damage graphs so we can get more context of the situation. Not that I don't believe you, though. I've been wombo-combo'd by Malphites before when they've built pretty much full AP and they've only (massively) buffed his AP ratios since then.
KeirosCZ19 (EUNE)
: Do you think Lol will get any better?
The best way to learn from mistakes is to make those mistakes. Unfortunately, Riot doesn't like admitting their mistakes, and they have shown time and time again, that they rarely learn from them either. So no, I don't really have high hopes for this game to be honest, unless something happens where some other company or company figure intervenes to take the reigns to steer League in a new direction that's hopefully better than this hot mess. If League came out 9 years ago in the state it was in now, it would most likely have failed very hard.
Elohaven (NA)
: May as well nerf the nexus at this point
I mean, the nexus DOES spawns minions. Wanna know how many times I've died from enemy minions cock blocking me with what is effectively a 2~4 second root? Clearly needs a nerf. {{sticker:sg-janna}}
BLT2121 (NA)
: How to Get S?
The things that contribute to getting a high score rating is: 1. KDA 2. Creep score 3. Vision score 4. Objective participation (Turrets, dragons, baron, etc) 5. Participation (things like damage done to champions, you can get lots of kills but if you only just secured those kills rather than actually do the work for them, the KDA won't mean very much) 6. The role you queue up in 7. Game time The last one in the current meta is really the big deciding factor. Games end so fast, that you usually don't get time for the first 5 to really accumulate. To put it into a simple example. Imagine at the 10 minute mark, you need to be 100% efficient to get an S, then at 20 minutes, 90% efficient to get an S, then 30 minutes is 80% efficient, etc. Back before the meta was so snowbally, I could have games last like 70 minutes, have an above average KDA but nothing too fancy, and still get an easy S. Longer game times means you have room for error to still get an S. Shorter games mean you have to basically have a literal flawless game and perform way above your skill level. There are times where I HAVE had a perfect game, and still have only gotten a B+. You CAN cheese the system slightly. I personally got mastery 7 Morgana by going into a 5 man premade, queueing up as Morgana bot (not support), with a support Thresh, basically doing a kill lane bot comp, shutting them down early, we'd both buy mobility boots with oracle sweeping lens, and kill all the wards in the jungle whilst constantly ganking mid and top. I also bought Banner of Command and Z'Rot portal so I could massively shove lanes (which also gave me a boost in CS) and made me basically an off tank when it came to team fights. Basically, it was a build designed to do everything -- and because of that, all of my scores were generally way higher than average _everywhere_, allowing for very easy S+'s, on a champion that's not normally played in "bot". There's a chance that if I had queued up for support instead of bot, I may not have gotten those S ranks so easily because the average performance for Morgs queued as support is probably higher than the average performance for Morgs queued as a bot. It could also be the other way around; maybe bot Morgs have a higher average score than support Morgs. I personally do not like this system because it's supposed to be a champion mastery thing -- not a role thing. You shouldn't be graded different just *where* you queued up as even with the same champion. If you do well, you do well and should simply be graded as such imo. Not if you do well -- in the role you're playing in with the champion you selected. I understand WHY it is the way it is, but it opens the system up for the kind of abuse I did (even though it wasn't my intention -- I just like playing Morg, and the other guy really likes playing Thresh and support, so we came up with this kill bot lane idea). Usually, if you can find a gimmick that is off meta, you can get S ranks easily with this type of cheesing without even having to be that good; because the enemy won't expect it and know how to counter it (and in bronze, they seldom even attempt to counter anything). Of course, I wouldn't recommend doing it in ranked with randoms.
Whooppy (NA)
: So you want an option where few players can cheat out win against whole team Darius? So smart. lol It's Garen team players fault that they don't care or can complete missions. Don't be sore loser.
Just like how there are "sore losers" there are also "sore winners". Stop being a sore winner.
GreyfellD (EUW)
: Yes because AD champs don't have powerful ranged abilities... Cough {{champion:150}}, {{champion:122}}, {{champion:238}} cough. Even {{champion:157}} has a ranged whirlwind and has NONE of the mana problems mages have.
> [{quoted}](name=GreyfellD,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3FG29UIU,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-07-06T20:48:45.353+0000) > > Yes because AD champs don't have powerful ranged abilities... Cough {{champion:150}}, {{champion:122}}, {{champion:238}} cough. Even {{champion:157}} has a ranged whirlwind and has NONE of the mana problems mages have. Hell, 3 of the 4 champions you listed don't even have mana as a resource on top of it all.
: Losing friends over League
I used to be friends on League with Riot PsyonicHero before he actually became a Rioter. I knew him due to being a friend of another friend, if anyone knows who "DiggitySC" is. Used to be a famous Starcraft 1 commentator when that was a thing. This was back in probably season 1 I think, or season 2. It was my first ranked game, and as per circumstance, my internet went out. So I asked my brother to help finish the game for me on his side because I didn't want to leave the game a 4v5. It was without a doubt a loss though, my brother could only do so much playing a champion he didn't know, in a role he didn't know when thrust half way through the match, though I was sort of coaching him what to do on my side. During this time, I could still hear him and his other friends over voice comms, and wow, the shit he and they were saying about me (and my brother, technically, but they didn't know it was him playing now because I was still trying to communicate with my brother to help salvage the game despite the heat I was getting). It was definitely the last time I spoke and played with him again. Off my friends list after that. I was annoyed when like two days later I saw he was becoming a Rioter, although I realized a few more days later that I probably dodged a huge fucking bullet because he swiftly got fired for an outburst during a match he was streaming where he verbally abused another player (what happened to that player is basically what happened to me over voice comms) and banned the player after verbally abusing them for a month. Had he been a Rioter a couple days earlier, the one who got unjustifiably banned could had been me, and there would have been no evidence of that over the voice comms compared to the in-game chat. People can go read that story up if they want. Maybe a vod of what still exists somewhere. This is the original thread that got him fired by the way: http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=451882&page=1
: Logs only show one side of the argument.
> [{quoted}](name=Dudyr Prime,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=8EVrEE1b,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-07-04T20:29:31.549+0000) > > Logs only show one side of the argument. And that's the only side we need to see. It's not what you and the other person did -- it's what you did.
YoRHa 2B (EUNE)
: Something is wrong with Redemption
Ah, runic bulwark is an old, old school item.
: Item Idea: Repair kit (+25% Tower HP Restore)
I miss old Heimerdinger's health regen passive that also worked on turrets. :/
: Missions broke again!
"Slay a dragon as a team" All 5 of us team up to kill a dragon. No credit after the game. ?????
: Honor level after ban
A two week ban puts your entire account on very, very thin ice. As such, the honor climb at that point is very, very slow (though it's still possible). The thing about honor level 0 is that it's the slowest level to increase, but you earn honor levels faster and faster once it finally goes from 0 to 1, and then from 1 to 2 and etc.
Teslyn (NA)
: you didnt know how to play poppy. Old poppy was stronger than new Poppy.. Very few people understood how to use her properly back in the day. Literally the reason they 'updated' her.
> [{quoted}](name=Teslyn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qTFE9m8O,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-06-30T17:24:13.089+0000) > > you didnt know how to play poppy. Old poppy was stronger than new Poppy.. > > Very few people understood how to use her properly back in the day. > > Literally the reason they 'updated' her. I played old Poppy all the time, In fact, I actually did pretty decent with her playing the support role by just spamming every gold generation thing possible -- including runes and masteries, so I didn't need to farm but would still be able to keep up with the rest of the game. They updated her, because having what essentially equated to a 6 second Kayle ult as soon as level 6, whilst at the same time, becoming a stat check champion, is toxic champion design. It didn't happen often, because the rest of her kit basically made it impossible to farm without being bullied out and/or running out of mana, making her one of the slowest farming champions in the game at the time. But if the game lasted long enough for her to get the items she needed, then she became a literal unstoppable win condition. There are other reasons. Here's a brief history lesson on old Poppy and why she was weak: --------------------------------------- Her dash had been bugged for years. It actually had several bugs up until her rework. Does anyone remember how wonky and absolute shitty that wall hit detection was? Sometimes I'd slam champions into a wall and they'd just walk away scott-free. Sometimes I'd just slam into them and they'd get stunned even when they were in the middle of the lane with nothing nearby. let alone a wall. And then there was the bug where minions counted as "walls" for a very long time. There was also a bug where you would sometimes just harmlessly slam into an opponent but not even do damage -- or sometimes (on very rare occasions) outright go right THROUGH them like they were a ghost. Her heroric slam was the epitome on the definition of "spaghetti code". Even by current today's standards, it's still a bit off sometimes when it comes to an enemy champion dashing or blinking away. There are times where I'll try to charge someone, and she'll just not move, but still the skill will go on cooldown and the target blinks/dash away. Or often times she'll dash anyways, and headbutt the wall harmlessly. And other times she'll just become a ballistic heat-seeking missile and do a 90 degree turn towards the target that blinked away, slamming and dragging them. These properties also existed on old Poppy's slam as well. And of course, there was the infamous bug where she was able to have a pet Baron Nashor following her around. Probably the only time since release her win rate rose to be above the lowest 10. That got patched pretty fast. Poppy players were promised a rework "soon" when Poppy had been out for a few months. That "soon" took over 4 years to come to get the current iteration of Poppy we have today. Poppy back then had one of the worst mana pools and mana regen in the entire game. One E > Q combo at level 2 would consume over half of your mana. Poppy was so neglected, she never made it into the free champion rotation for 3 years. She didn't get a direct buff (or a nerf) even though her win rate was in the lowest 10 for years almost consistently. The only changes she got that are the exception was minor tweaks to her dash to make it hopefully less buggy (which sometimes would introduce a new bug and thus make it even worse). If a sign of a champion being weak being isn't that their skill doesn't even *work* the way it should half the time despite patches to try and fix it not working right -- then I don't know what is. At least Aatrox's abilities actually do the thing they are supposed to do -- his problem is that it just feels clunky. Poppy's dash *literally* didn't work at times whether to her advantage or the dash just "fizzling" in some way. So not only was she a weak champion by her own right, she was also a buggy champion and I assume the easiest way to fix her was to remake her from the ground up. ------------------------------------- *TLDR:* Her dash was fucked up beyond all reason. It wouldn't stun half the time when it should. It did stun half the time when it should*n't*. She'd harmlessly drag enemies. She'd harmlessly phase THROUGH enemies. She lacked the mana to trade and farm properly. She wasn't in the free rotation for 3 years. The only balance patches she had in 4 whole years was (failed) attempts to fix her dash. It took 4 years after promising a rework to actually get one, and the only time her winrate rose above the lowest 10, was when she was VERY bugged and could have a pet Baron Nashor following her around.
ZVlTOR (EUNE)
: Conglaturations riot games
> [{quoted}](name=ZVlTOR,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qTFE9m8O,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-06-29T21:29:03.095+0000) > > just wanted to say conglaturations on making the weakest, and the worst champion off all time in history of league. Is it even posible to make a champion that is worse than aatrox is right now Remember when Poppy was utterly useless for over 4 years?
niceday501 (EUNE)
: cant see my ping ,farm and my score
Try pressing Ctrl + F when in-game.
thaBeast (NA)
: favorite anime/manga
Made in Abyss is wonderful. I would strongly recommend the anime compared to the manga though, even though the manga is much further ahead. The anime version is more of a "remaster" to the manga, especially since the anime soundtrack is godly. Hunter X Hunter (2011) is also another personal favorite as it gets surprisingly dark compared to the original light tone the beginning of the series takes (with still some dark undertones). Either the anime or manga is good. The anime fully and faithfully adapts to the manga, so it's whichever media you prefer to digest.
FFrazien (EUW)
: Community : "Riot please enough true damage in game"
Well hey, if there was any evidence they literally don't read anything we say and don't listen to feedback, this is it. If anymore true damage gets added to the game for real, I'm just _done._ It's so boring and I'm so sick of true damage being 40~70% of the total damage I take every damn match.
: ADC's Lives Matter!
The way to solve Crit ADCs being viable again is to lengthen the average match time. It's not that they're bad. It's just late game to them doesn't exist. They're meant to hit off at around the 30 minute mark and games end on average between 20~25 minutes, not giving them time to reach their peak point. Maybe if turrets weren't so weak to the point that a single wave of super minions can literally solo a turret by themselves, we could have slightly longer matches, but Riot seems to have this hard-on for making them weaker than ever before to the point that they even gutted their health regen.
Rioter Comments
: Warmog's Armor Replacement for ARAM
I would like it if they brought back Winter's orb -- or whatever that item was that basically gave you a shield for 10% of your max HP or something like that if you didn't take damage for 9 seconds (it was basically Malphite's passive in a unique passive for an item). That existed I think around when ARAM officially became a thing. That helped reduce the potency of poke without just outright gutting it in the same way Warmogs did and couldn't be abused by champions like Veigar nearly as easily. It helped stopped people getting absolutely chunked by just the odd skill shot that makes it through by either completely blocking or at least softening up the blow, but if you kept getting hit consistently it wouldn't save you and obviously just disengaging for 20 seconds wouldn't restore all of your health since at best you'd only get 10% of your max health back in the form of that shield.
: Yea the hitbox from the ult is as wide as the whole lane. It misses by a mile and you magically get hit anyway. Same for Q. It's beyond dumb really.
> [{quoted}](name=Spoofghoul,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=80EPd9d4,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-06-03T11:48:01.698+0000) > > Yea the hitbox from the ult is as wide as the whole lane. > It misses by a mile and you magically get hit anyway. > Same for Q. > > It's beyond dumb really. Hit box from long skillshots are usually always off due to height elevation. You can test this out for yourself in the practice tool. Place some dummies on lower/higher elevation than you, and try shooting some lasers. In fact, you can do this with any champ with a long skill shot, like Jhin, Kai'Sa, Jinx or Zoe (it's even way worse for all of them than Lux). I've been hit by Jhin and Kai'sa shots that were clearly way above or below me -- like a whole 300+ units away from any visuals. but because they were on a different elevation, the perspective is awfully skewed and you will get hit anyways even though it looks like the skill shot was far off. It's not just Lux that has this problem. _It's every champion in the game_ that has any sort of ranged skill shot. Combine that with the further argument that champion hot boxes are more akin to circles like tabletop figurines, and then yes, it leads to many BS moments where any spell may hit you when the visuals do not line up.
: those champions also don't have a Point and click Gap closer or hard CC tho. Poppy Does has 2 knockups and a wall stun/knockback on top of sad gapcloser. Meanwhile mundo an Garen are immobile. and just have a single slow/silence respectively.
> [{quoted}](name=ChaddyFantome,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O3zWa0AZ,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-04-26T05:14:45.873+0000) > > those champions also don't have a Point and click Gap closer or hard CC tho. > Poppy Does has 2 knockups and a wall stun/knockback on top of sad gapcloser. > > > Meanwhile mundo an Garen are immobile. and just have a single slow/silence respectively. I'm not saying both are OP or that Poppy is UP, but come on. 1. Her one knock up is her W, which you have to dash/jump inside or against to even trigger the knock up, which isn't even that long. 2. Her other knock up is on her ultimate, which if you instant-cast it without charging, has a knock up that is even weaker in duration than {{champion:12}} Q and the cooldown is 10 times longer. The AOE around it is even smaller. Also no gap closers on them? Garen's Q makes him run 30% faster for up to 3.5 seconds, and it can remove some slows on him. It also has a low cooldown of 8 seconds (after you swing with it). This is three times a lower cooldown than Poppy's movement speed buff which doesn't even start off at max speed. Mundo's ult obviously has a munch longer cooldown, but he still moves a lot faster with it. Not to mention he can literally perma slow you with cleavers which slow you by a whopping 40% movement speed even at level 1. Let's also not forget that both of these champions have a good chunk of built-in tenacity in their kits, whilst Poppy has none, giving them a much easier time for them to stick on whoever they're targeting. And Garen literally has a point and click *true damage* ultimate which does more damage based on the opponent's *missing health* -- so you can't even build against aside from not having the most kills in the match. If that's not "stat checking" then I don't even know what is. Also, Garen and Mundo have no mana to manage. Poppy does. And her stun can be counter played by not standing near a wall. That's not exactly difficult, leaving her only real source of reliable hard CC being her ultimate.
yuna4321 (NA)
: Seriously riot?
Sounds like a good question to ask a support rep with a support ticket.
Bern (NA)
: Then why is the QSS tax a problem at all? It's a very similar principle. You seem to not get that setting the opposing laner's spike back 800 gold is an insanely big deal and executioner's has garbage gold efficiency. If you can fight them when your AD gets their first big purchase and the enemy is sitting on intermediate items and executioner's, that's a very real advantage. You also seem to forget that soraka has more utility than just being an ambulance -- she's one of the few remaining champions in the game with a silence (that also might root). Additionally, she has a slow that also gives you the ability to make someone else run away faster, which in turn can help you proc your own passive to run away faster, helping you disengage from being all-in'd. And her ult is global; using it with an eye for the map can help with executioner's spoiling its value. **Just buying executioner's doesn't negate her entire kit.** Besides, in general, sustain lanes are designed to fare poorly against being all-in'd; surprise, Soraka is bad if someone allins you and executioner's exacerbates that! If they're just poking you with executioner's, you're not really getting too screwed by their purchase; grievous wounds can wear off and you can heal them normally anyways. It's if they actually get into a fight that executioner's is a real issue for Soraka, and that was probably already an issue anyways.
> [{quoted}](name=Bern,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UB83P4xF,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2018-04-13T10:51:34.253+0000) > > Then why is the QSS tax a problem at all? It's a very similar principle. You seem to not get that setting the opposing laner's spike back 800 gold is an insanely big deal and executioner's has garbage gold efficiency. If you can fight them when your AD gets their first big purchase and the enemy is sitting on intermediate items and executioner's, that's a very real advantage. > > You also seem to forget that soraka has more utility than just being an ambulance -- she's one of the few remaining champions in the game with a silence (that also might root). Additionally, she has a slow that also gives you the ability to make someone else run away faster, which in turn can help you proc your own passive to run away faster, helping you disengage from being all-in'd. And her ult is global; using it with an eye for the map can help with executioner's spoiling its value. **Just buying executioner's doesn't negate her entire kit.** > > Besides, in general, sustain lanes are designed to fare poorly against being all-in'd; surprise, Soraka is bad if someone allins you and executioner's exacerbates that! If they're just poking you with executioner's, you're not really getting too screwed by their purchase; grievous wounds can wear off and you can heal them normally anyways. It's if they actually get into a fight that executioner's is a real issue for Soraka, and that was probably already an issue anyways. They're a similar principal, but that doesn't mean they're the same idea. Comparing QSS to an Executioner's is like comparing Apples to Oranges. For one, QSS costs 50% more than Exec. Secondly, QSS provides only MR, which is only good for people who deal magic damage. Exec provides YOU with +15 damage, which, unless you are NOT ADC, is a universally better stat, because you can apply that start to all enemies on the enemy team, rather than preventing a portion of damage you receive from only certain members of the enemy team. Thirdly, QSS has a cooldown to stop ONE crowd control effect which is 90 seconds long. Exec. has no cooldown. All you need to do is hit someone with a basic attack. Fourthly, QSS doesn't even work on all forms of CC (knock ups, knock backs, etc). Exec. however works on ALL forms of sustain, whether it be Soraka, Nami, Janna, Cho'gath passive, any character's life-on-hit, the enemy ADC's life steal, etc. Fifth reason: Exec builds into Mortal Reminder, which not only hard counters sustain, but soft and hard counters anyone who built armor. QSS builds into Mecurial's Scimitar, which only offers 15 more attack damage, 10% life steal, and 35 magic resist for a passive you can only use to one-time counter one skill's side effect from one champion every 90 seconds. This has infinitely less impact, then the 100% up time of "anything you damage heals 50% less effect. Sixth reason is that Mikael's Cubicle exists, which is basically the same as QSS, except that the support can use it on anyone in the team, and it has absolutely fantastic stats for most supports (including Soraka herself). A support however has no real way to deal Grievous Wounds, and an 800g buy is more expensive for them than an 800g buy for an ADC, not to mention it would be far less effective on the support unless the support is some off-meta marksman themselves (like support Ashe). ---------- Finally, you say that it doesn't "negate her entire kit", well, for one, no item in the game can, nor should do that, but executioners gets pretty close. you also speak like punishing three of an opponent's four skills is a bad thing and an awful trade off. Her silence isn't going to do much in a fight in the lane. It's better for choke points. It's countered by walking around it and walking out of it. That's it. Hell, it's even spaghetti coded enough that if you stasis or are reviving and she plops it on top of you (or you just walked into it), you can still flash/blink/leap/dash/jump/QSS/Mikael/Cleanse out of it or through it, because the silence only applies in 0.5 second intervals, meaning for a brief period of time, you're in equionix and are not silenced. You'd be amazed at how much this 0.5 second "delay" matters. Her slow and speed boost isn't much either. It's a 30% slow for 2 seconds. Except, you know, she has to hit you with it first. Again, this can be countered by just walking out of where she's aiming. She even has an animation BEFORE the actual projectile releases, meaning you will know the attack is coming and should be ready to dodge before you even see her release the spell out. It's not like the AOE is large and hard to dodge either. The only exception is when you're already on top of her. The movement portion is only 10% when whomever holds the buff is walking away from the enemy. Again, executioners would counter both the heal so she can apply it to her teammate, and the health regeneration of the buff. Again, this can also be countered by just not getting hit with her Star call, too. It's not complex to read. If she walks in range, either get ready to dodge, or punish her for stepping out of position. I don't see how making her passive proc by healing someone can... proc it, as you state because she needs to have the movement speed buff to provide the movement speed buff to someone else. And healing them removes the passive once they rise above 40% health. I'm not saying her passive is bad, but it's not usually useful in the laning phase unless the enemy team is NOT targeting her in the first place. And I don't think it's fair to argue Soraka is too good at her job, when you just let her do her job with no opposition. Any ADC would be good at killing people too if nobody targeted them.
Bern (NA)
: Every champion that buys LDR or takes Cut Down is penalized for buying extra HP. Those aren't built into the kit, but they're built into a playstyle and buildpath. Soraka is discouraged from it because Soraka's healing is extremely frustrating to deal with, and the main counter is killing Soraka. At least shields (especially at early levels) are temporary; any HP Soraka heals for stays there forever. Executioner's tax is godawful to pay before you've at least got IE+Zeal item; same concept as QSS tax, but less expensive and less punishing if you don't buy it. Dumping 800g into executioner's puts a laner behind a pretty penny. Admittedly, I'd rather just see the game balanced so that executioner's didn't need to exist, but...
> [{quoted}](name=Bern,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UB83P4xF,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-04-13T08:53:00.106+0000) > > Every champion that buys LDR or takes Cut Down is penalized for buying extra HP. Those aren't built into the kit, but they're built into a playstyle and buildpath. > > Soraka is discouraged from it because Soraka's healing is extremely frustrating to deal with, and the main counter is killing Soraka. At least shields (especially at early levels) are temporary; any HP Soraka heals for stays there forever. > > Executioner's tax is godawful to pay before you've at least got IE+Zeal item; same concept as QSS tax, but less expensive and less punishing if you don't buy it. Dumping 800g into executioner's puts a laner behind a pretty penny. Admittedly, I'd rather just see the game balanced so that executioner's didn't need to exist, but... You... are literally the exact example I was talking about with executioners calling. Why the hell is 800 gold to much to spend to not just counter a champion, but HARD counter a champion? To literally make them next to useless? The executioner's calling is gonna do way more work than even an I.E. Every amount of healing you prevent is like dealing damage -- quite literally considering Soraka hurts herself to transfer said health over. Seriously, buy it, and you'll see how helpless Soraka is and how weak she actually is because of how easy and little investment it is to essentially turn the laning phase nearly into a 2v1.
: Riot hates warmog's soraka. It's pretty cancerous to deal with an infinite healing support that has no downside and plays super safe.
> [{quoted}](name=TwinkiePro,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UB83P4xF,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-04-12T21:59:35.446+0000) > > Riot hates warmog's soraka. It's pretty cancerous to deal with an infinite healing support that has no downside and plays super safe. Then they should fix it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Even I don't like Warmog's Soraka. It's a fine example of one champion abusing an item. If the reason that Soraka is shitty and obnoxious to build with is because of only Warmogs, then that's still bad game design and should be fixed either way. It's kind of the same problem that most assassins have with relying on Duskblade right now.
: So I am a little bit late to the party with this post but I wanted to add my 2 cents. Now I freely admit, the math I'm posting below IS NOT accurate. I didn't look at the numbers, or bonus vs max vs base hp, etc. this is simply my own basic league for dummies understanding of her. Soraka's heal is, indeed, 10% health cost. Meaning she can heal 9 times before she is completely out of resources to heal with since she cannot be reduced below 10% by using it. So her base amount of heal per life is 9x. With 2000hp she can heal somebody 9x. With 4000hp she can heal somebody 9x With 120000p she can heal somebody 9x. When she has 2000hp and uses all 9 heals, she is left with 10% hp which is 200. At 120000hp, after using 10% go she is left with 1200hp. So after using all her heals she is left with more hp than she would be if she had not built the health. Meaning she is more likely to stay alive long enough to pump out a few Q's, regain her HP and continue healing her team. You see what I'm getting at? She doesn't suffer at all from building HP. She simply doesn't get any extra benefit from it with that one specific spell. She still benefits from the extra HP because no matter how many times she can heal you, she can either be tankier to withstand assassins, or squishier to die to them. Building HP is essential, it simply gates her power in lane. If it didn't cost 10% hp then she would simply be the old, no risk high reward healer. Now she actually has to interact in lane to get her HP back with Q and that's a good thing! The 10% hp cost is simply the best way to keep her heals strong because if she could spam it all day with no repercussions then Riot would most likely have to nerf the strength of her heal to compensate. Every champ has stats that are good, bad, or mediocre. For example: Aatrox benefits from building Tri-Force even though the mana doesn't do anything. In the same way, Soraka benefits from the bonus HP even though it doesn't help her healing.
> [{quoted}](name=Man E Quinn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UB83P4xF,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-04-12T21:19:41.411+0000) > > So I am a little bit late to the party with this post but I wanted to add my 2 cents. Now I freely admit, the math I'm posting below IS NOT accurate. I didn't look at the numbers, or bonus vs max vs base hp, etc. this is simply my own basic league for dummies understanding of her. > > Soraka's heal is, indeed, 10% health cost. Meaning she can heal 9 times before she is completely out of resources to heal with since she cannot be reduced below 10% by using it. > > So her base amount of heal per life is 9x. With 2000hp she can heal somebody 9x. With 4000hp she can heal somebody 9x > With 120000p she can heal somebody 9x. > When she has 2000hp and uses all 9 heals, she is left with 10% hp which is 200. At 120000hp, after using 10% go she is left with 1200hp. So after using all her heals she is left with more hp than she would be if she had not built the health. Meaning she is more likely to stay alive long enough to pump out a few Q's, regain her HP and continue healing her team. > > > You see what I'm getting at? > She doesn't suffer at all from building HP. She simply doesn't get any extra benefit from it with that one specific spell. > > She still benefits from the extra HP because no matter how many times she can heal you, she can either be tankier to withstand assassins, or squishier to die to them. > > Building HP is essential, it simply gates her power in lane. If it didn't cost 10% hp then she would simply be the old, no risk high reward healer. Now she actually has to interact in lane to get her HP back with Q and that's a good thing! > > The 10% hp cost is simply the best way to keep her heals strong because if she could spam it all day with no repercussions then Riot would most likely have to nerf the strength of her heal to compensate. > > Every champ has stats that are good, bad, or mediocre. For example: Aatrox benefits from building Tri-Force even though the mana doesn't do anything. In the same way, Soraka benefits from the bonus HP even though it doesn't help her healing. Actually, that isn't how her heal works. The cost is 10% of her total HP, but you can cast it as low as 5% of your total HP if that's how much you have remaining. Casting it when you have between 5% to 10% of your max HP will allow you to cast the heal, but you will be reduced to 1 HP. It's weird that her heal has a "minimum requirement" and a "maximum consumption", but that's how it works. Now, where your argument fails, is that yes, while in that method, bonus health "technically" works, you're forgetting that for one, hurting yourself for that much HP to heal... less than the HP you just sacrificed is a net loss. Secondly, it means she has that much of a harder time using Star call to refill her health bar. Good luck regaining 400 HP with even max level Star calls when you have no AP. And even if you do manage to do that, good luck having the mana to keep doing it for long. As for "no risk Soraka" because she built tank... people are already taking no risks with her. There's no way she can take any risks to Star call in this meta against any competent enemy team. If she steps out at all, she'll be popped like a fragile balloon. I know I've been popped myself more than once for just stepping out of position a little bit and that's when I was at FULL health, let alone if I was actually trying to grab health because I already used most of it healing.
Kaìju (NA)
: Soraka has not received any buffs to her healthier thematic since before they added GW for tanks and reworking GW for mages.
> [{quoted}](name=Kaìju,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UB83P4xF,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-04-12T15:32:17.003+0000) > > Soraka has not received any buffs to her healthier thematic since before they added GW for tanks and reworking GW for mages. Not directly buffed. Some items have been great for her. Some nerfs to some of those items were obviously bad for her. But that can be said about every champion I suppose. Grievous Wounds honestly isn't that big of a deal as it should be. Nobody but the mage most of the time is building it. And sometimes the mage isn't even building it with Soraka in mind. The amount of times I've played Soraka and had to deal with an enemy ADC buying {{item:3123}} is less than 2%. It's seriously that rare (from my experience, anyways. I tend to at least get golds/plats in my normal games). It hard counters her, and yet it's rare that I have to deal with it outside of somebody having {{summoner:14}} . Yet ironically, the amount of games I've won when the enemy first buys an {{item:3123}} is low enough that I can count them on a single hand. If more people actually built it to counter her, Soraka's win rate would drop significantly.
Sasogwa (EUW)
: Though it is awkward and feels bad for her to get total health costs, it would be easily abusable to buy a bunch of health for her to spam heal like a tard if it was base health costs instead. The thing is Soraka's healing is insane and the only thing limiting that is the fact she has to pay total health and can't really build tanky and be the ultimate 0 counterplay healing bot. And if you were to nerf her otherwise to implement these base health costs, what of her current version? Straight nerfed to allow for tank Soraka to exist? That being said, a bonus health ratio on the self healing from Q would be an interesting feature. But doesn't it get transmitted to the adc if you heal them or sthg like that? Not too aware of her kit rn and I'm blocked out of a lot of sites including league wikia cause at work right now :o
> [{quoted}](name=Sasogwa,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UB83P4xF,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-04-12T09:29:13.742+0000) > > Though it is awkward and feels bad for her to get total health costs, it would be easily abusable to buy a bunch of health for her to spam heal like a tard if it was base health costs instead. The thing is Soraka's healing is insane and the only thing limiting that is the fact she has to pay total health and can't really build tanky and be the ultimate 0 counterplay healing bot. And if you were to nerf her otherwise to implement these base health costs, what of her current version? Straight nerfed to allow for tank Soraka to exist? > > That being said, a bonus health ratio on the self healing from Q would be an interesting feature. But doesn't it get transmitted to the adc if you heal them or sthg like that? Not too aware of her kit rn and I'm blocked out of a lot of sites including league wikia cause at work right now :o When you heal someone with her heal while she has Rejuvenation active on her, it applies another fresh instance of Rejuvenation onto the target she just healed. This means you can keep refreshing Rejuvenation on a single target to make it "last longer" or apply multiple copies of it onto new targets, until the initial buff runs out on her, where then must land another Star call on an enemy champion. Fun fact: you can keep the buff up indefinitely in One For All, since any Sorakas with any Rejuvenation buff counts for spreading the buff, even if the buff they have wasn't the initial one. You just have to keep healing each other constantly.
Infernape (EUW)
: >Again, no other champion has this problem. Well not exactly. Vladimir's troll pool costs him 20% of his current health to use, and his E costs up to 10% of his maximum HP. But he has his Q and ult to heal the damage back. Soraka technically has the same thing upon her Q hitting a champion and her ult. Mordekaiser and Mundo also have the same sort of thing.
> [{quoted}](name=FurorDivinus27,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UB83P4xF,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-12T09:27:21.156+0000) > > Well not exactly. Vladimir's troll pool costs him 20% of his current health to use, and his E costs up to 10% of his maximum HP. But he has his Q and ult to heal the damage back. Soraka technically has the same thing upon her Q hitting a champion and her ult. > > Mordekaiser and Mundo also have the same sort of thing. The difference between Vladmir's pool is that it costs 20% of his CURRENT health to use. Current health isn't the same as total health. Also, the pool is used to preserve his own health. Usually using it comes at less of a cost than if you didn't use it. In the case of Vlad's E, he does more damage the more health he consumes. This means bonus health isn't a liability, since it still has a benefit (dealing more damage). Soraka on the other hand gets nothing for bonus health anywhere at all. Mordekaiser's attacks cost a base amount of health. There is no Total % Health I can see anywhere. Mundo also has base amounts of health cost, except his ultimate, which is again, current % health which isn't the same as Total health. Also, his ultimate regenerates his health he just spent at an extremely rapid pace, which is again, based on his maximum health (so there's a benefit to building it, unlike Soraka) Even if you were to use his ultimate whilst at 100% health, you still gain more than 20% of your health bar back, along with other bonuses to boot.
: > This problem is even more obnoxious when tier 3 gold generation items have bonus health on them {{item:3069}} {{item:3401}} {{item:3092}} so you have to suffer taking bonus health to unlock the ability to hold a 4th ward in that item slot. Why not use {{item:3096}} {{item:3097}} {{item:3098}} ?
> [{quoted}](name=DerMangoJoghurt,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UB83P4xF,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-04-12T09:16:17.185+0000) > > Why not use {{item:3096}} {{item:3097}} {{item:3098}} ? Because those only hold 3 wards. The other ones hold 4. And it sucks to not be able to make use of the +200 health and a couple other stats because of the +200 health.
: Honestly I'm fine with it costing health what i do find odd though is that while it costs health the heal does not actually scale with health
> [{quoted}](name=trunoob413,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UB83P4xF,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-04-12T08:46:20.970+0000) > > Honestly I'm fine with it costing health what i do find odd though is that while it costs health the heal does not actually scale with health If her heal scaled with health, it would make Warmogs on her an absolute nightmare (more so than it already is if she can somehow survive up to that point -- just because it's not viable now doesn't mean it isn't powerful). Scaling her heal based off of bonus health was my original idea for a solution. But the more I thought about it, the more problems it would create for general balance. It fixes the design flaw (health being a liability), but opens the flood gates for many other problems. A tanky champion with a spammable burst heal and zoning capabilities that you can't quickly shut down in a team fight is probably too strong. In at least my "boost to Star Call" suggestion, she still can't burst heal without emptying all of her health pool still (and it'd still be a subpar amount due to lack of AP), but she can heal an adequate amount of health to multiple targets like most tanky champions who have a heal, and she still requires getting in the fray like other tanky healer designs as well in order to gain the rejuvenation buff (Star Call is easier to land the closer you are to the target, too). It at least FEELS like a healthier design to me anyways, with more interactivity behind it other than "I built health so I heal more nao."
: At one point she was meant to get penalties to armour and MR, it's to stop her being an unkillable health dispenser. I remember the days of tank top Soraka.
> [{quoted}](name=OurLestrade,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UB83P4xF,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-04-12T08:42:04.951+0000) > > At one point she was meant to get penalties to armour and MR, it's to stop her being an unkillable health dispenser. I remember the days of tank top Soraka. Whether she's strong or weak really isn't an issue with me. I think she's "weak" right now due to the current game state (it's kind of hard to heal people when people get insta-gibbed in one or two hits -- shielding that damage before it happens right now is much more preferable), but I'd rather she be weak and playable, than strong, and feel horrible to play. I've played her since season 1. She's been changed many, many many times. But this iteration, which they've stuck with for whatever god-awful reason, is the only iteration where I've literally hated playing her, and it's only because of this dumb health total on her heal. It's not the fact it costs health, just that it costs total health. Again, no other champion has this problem. Even on manaless champions, if you build mana, the worst it does is _nothing_. On Soraka, it does worse than nothing.
Rioter Comments
Keti (NA)
: Gee if you hate everything about the game why don't you spare yourself the misery and stop?
> [{quoted}](name=Keti,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nxKAWLqQ,comment-id=00030004,timestamp=2018-04-09T18:16:48.467+0000) > > Gee if you hate everything about the game why don't you spare yourself the misery and stop? I already have. Look at my recent match history if you don't believe me. Nothing but co-op vs AI and maybe a few ARAMs only because a couple of friends wanted me to play with them. A prospect that's becoming rarer as more and more of my friends also quit League.
: > I hate this emphasis that all Marksmen all practically build the exact same item kit with little variation with only a few exceptions. So like every champion? > I hate how practically every critical hit item gives movement speed. Literally, nothing wrong with this and no problem in the game comes from this. > I hate how black cleaver literally does everything for any AD melee (armor reduction, 20% CDR, health, damage, a good on hit effect). and yet no Cleaver bruiser is viable... > I hate how armor protects about as much from attacks as wet paper does by the 10 minute mark. Have you played top lane into a tank? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You also forget they purposefully made supports stupidly overpowered.
> [{quoted}](name=AirKingNeo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nxKAWLqQ,comment-id=00030002,timestamp=2018-04-08T15:05:19.575+0000) > > So like every champion? > > Literally, nothing wrong with this and no problem in the game comes from this. > > and yet no Cleaver bruiser is viable... > > Have you played top lane into a tank? > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > You also forget they purposefully made supports stupidly overpowered. Let's see... > So like every champion? Uh no. I literally see 80% of all Marksmen all building Infinity Edge, Static Shiv and RFC, even in their nerfed states. Maybe other classes build the same thing, but all I can speak of is from my experience and maining support bot lane, seeing my Marksmen always building the same thing, and the enemy always building the same thing, even though usually they're different champions in most of the game. It's always to that rush to get infinity edge in the first 10 minutes. This makes the laning phase incredibly stale after doing it again, and again, and again. There's rarely anything new. By the 4th or maybe 5th item mark, there's some variation, but games rarely last that long or it usually doesn't matter by that point. Thankfully, Kai'Sa was a step in the right direction, but she's only a drop in a large pond. > Literally, nothing wrong with this and no problem in the game comes from this. Lots of problems come from this and is the definition of mobility creep. Back long ago, Phantom Dancer and Zeal were your only real "movement speed items". Now we have Hurricane, Shiv, RFC, Phantom Dancer (still)... and some marksmen also build Ghostblade too for the Lethality, which gives flat movement speed which makes all of the % movement speed even better, and I've even seen some ADCs also build black cleaver -- which you guess it, gives them even more movement speed. It's incredibly difficult to catch or out position a marksmen who's literally running around with an in combat bonus of 550 MS, and that's before their team goes to cover them. God forbid their team gets a cloud drake or three, which now also works in combat. > and yet no Cleaver bruiser is viable... That doesn't mean the item isn't overloaded. And because it's so overloaded, some non-bruisers are abusing it. This could be Marksmen, Yasuo, or even Assassins. Basically, literally anyone who does physical damage I've seen build this item. It's that loaded with stats that's good for anyone who's AD. Obviously, it's better on some characters than others, what item isn't? Like I said, it provides a great amount of damage, it has **two** on hit effects, one that's a movement speed buff for the user, which movement speed is a stat ANYONE can use, and one that's a massive armor debuff that stacks on the target, which can single-handedly can make a tank's armor items be void with just a single purchase all on its own. it provides 20% CDR, which very few items do, and finally a provides a bulky amount of health that rivals the amount of health full tank items provide. Yes, Black Cleaver is overloaded. but I won't pretend to know what needs to be done to fix it because I really don't know. To me, it's just another thing I hate about the game, and just one of the dozens and dozens of problems that's wrong with this game right now. > Have you played top lane into a tank? No, but I have built "tank" before. If I have 300+ armor (with tabis), and 3K+ HP, and the enemy has no armor pen of any sort, and I can still be killed in less than 5 seconds by the enemy Camille, or the AD Assassin that went mid, or the AD Jungler, or dead by being crit 3~4 times in a row by the Marksman, then no, I don't think armor is really doing its job at "keeping people alive for longer against physical damage". Surviving an extra second or three is a poor turnout for spending over 10,000 gold on raw defensive stats. And this are scenarios with just **one** person wailing on me. I can't imagine having **multiple** people attacking me. > You also forget they purposefully made supports stupidly overpowered. But I'm a support main, and rarely do I not play support unless someone else wants to. So the problem is that I can't see that perspective because generally I'm not playing against it, therefore I can't 'hate it' without being incredibly biased. So the best way to avoid being biased and to not give a flawed perspective is to not mention it at all. Especially since, as a support (who plays enchanters), I'm still stuck on relying on people, and have literally zero way of defending myself. As powerful as supports feel, they can still feel absolutely power**less** if you're just losing in general or given the right circumstance. This as a support player, makes it incredibly hard to gauge. I'm sure it's the same type of scenario that I have for assassins, really. I know that's what they're designed to do and that's their job -- but playing against it still feels bad. However, support Brand can go suck on a coconut until it's raw for all I care.
: Riot, I am probably one of your biggest supporters here on the Boards.
I can't say I know exactly what's wrong with the game, but I do know what I hate about the game now. And in no particular order and what I can think of what I hate just on the top of my head: - - - - - - - - - - - * I hate how Marksmen who get ahead can just burst and two/three shot people instead of just killing through sustained damage, leaving no room for counter play most of the time. * I hate how Assassins who get ahead can just burst people down and then get away scott free, again, leaving no room for counter play most of the time. They're doing their jobs, but I still hate it. * I hate these new minion gold changes. * I hate this incredible focus on Baron which usually has both teams stalemating at his pit for 10+ minutes until one team makes a mistake and they usually lose the game off of it. * I hate how dying once in bot lane will usually cost you the turret and thus the laning phase (and usually the game). * I hate this emphasis that all Marksmen all practically build the exact same item kit with little variation with only a few exceptions. * I hate how practically every critical hit item gives movement speed. * I hate how every critical hit item is cheap as hell. * I hate how tanks can do so much sustained damage with so little. * I hate how black cleaver literally does everything for any AD melee (armor reduction, 20% CDR, health, damage, a good on hit effect). * I hate how armor protects about as much from attacks as wet paper does by the 10 minute mark. * I hate how Static Shiv and energy attacks in general are still doing magic damage instead of physical. * I hate how cheap and easy it is to sustain with life steal/health gaining effects like fleet footwork. Damage doesn't stick -- except when it's bursting someone down. * I hate how everyone ult cooldowns are all under a minute -- sometimes under 30 seconds. * I hate how accessible CDR is. * I hate how snowbally the meta is. * As a support, I hate having to rely on people, even though I really do enjoy helping people. Now if I get caught out alone, I'm going to be jumped on and dead in two attacks, guaranteed. * I hate the mobility creep that has been building up for years now. * I hate how most champions now are jack of all trade characters, rather than having a defined weakness like the older champions. * I hate that whenever a champion gets nerfed or an item a champion uses gets nerfed, they get one, two or sometimes three "compensation buffs" most of the time in return. Just nerf them. If they're too strong, just nerf them -- this isn't a hard concept to grasp. * I hate how Riot keeps buffing champions that are "too weak" when really it's just they're being outclassed by other champions that are simply "too strong". Again, if something is too strong, nerf it. * I legitimately hate the balance team. I don't wish them ill will, but I don't know who else to blame at this point. * I hate the blatant favoritism Riot has on some champions. * I honestly, truly, hate this game, now. It's not fun anymore. - - - - - - - - - - - These are just my own opinions and my own dislikes about the game, but I think people can at least agree with some of them. I've been playing this game since day 1. Still suck at it, obviously, but back then, not a single one of these things on this list would even be on there. And that was a time when Heimerdinger could have 6 turrets (and upgrade all of them -- twice), had auto aimbotting missiles that reached over 1300 units of range and could hit up to 3 targets, had a grenade that could automatically damage enemy structures, and a passive that gave everyone and himself 25/HP5 in a rather generous aura INCLUDING friendly structures, minions and his own turrets -- and was still considered under powered.
: If you're going to constantly give Lux big buffs, then can you do at least this too?
I never had a problem with Lux's Q usually. Sometimes stuff happens but sometimes that can just be equated to a latency problem (all spell effects when a lag hitch happens have similar symptoms). I have had too many issues to count with her laser though. Sometimes I shoot someone and they're in the middle of it and it just does no damage. Similarly, I've been stuck in to the side of a Lux laser (not in the middle, but still clearly in it) before and... nothing. No damage. Still alive. This is more apparent at the end of the laser, especially when firing up north due to the camera angle. Alternatively, I've been and seen other people be well clear to the side of the laser and still get nuked as well. It's like the width of the hurt box changes every time.
: They finally unbanned me. I've never been happier in my life.
> [{quoted}](name=Get Charmëd,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=9zoWn22y,comment-id=0006000000010000,timestamp=2018-04-06T05:56:24.920+0000) > > They finally unbanned me. I've never been happier in my life. Congrats! Kind of glad you weren't just pulling our leg along the entire time. I got banned once before on an official Ragnarok Online server, because some toad of a GM was just going through names that "looked like bot names" and just banned anyone and everyone who just liked having unique names out of the blue without even testing if the people playing on those characters were actually bots or not. Took 23 support tickets and taking the situation onto the forum to raise awareness with other people in the same situation to get my account back. Was relieved when I finally got unbanned but I was still ultimately pissed off. Didn't even get any compensation, either. I think being absolutely persistent when it comes to these types of situation is important. Support staff need to realize more that false positives happen, and that real people can be victimized over this kind of thing. Yeah, it works most of the time (usually). But most is not all the time and that they can save people a lot of trouble and pain by just taking the 10~15 seconds to double check.
koshkyra (NA)
: I think the problem with enchanter suports is that they have way too much easy access to CDR
No one would build both {{item:3174}} and {{item:3222}}. Having {{item:3174}} disables the harmony passive on {{item:3222}} making it very inefficient (you'd be surprised how useful having over 10 health per SECOND is). As for a 37.4 second ult... that's achievable on a lot of people right now. On any support, or any mage... pretty much anyone. Going off to get one CDR item if you want to have a 30~40 second ult isn't asking much, especially when items like {{item:3812}} exists which still provides a lot of damage AND sustain with CDR, or {{item:3157}} which isn't what I'd call much of a "setback" considering how useful the active is. And then there's just plenty of other items like {{item:3025}} {{item:3071}} {{item:3083}} {{item:3194}} {{item:3001}} {{item:3142}} {{item:3147}} {{item:3003}} These are all useful items that hurt hard, provide a lot of offensive or defensive capabilities (sometimes with an active), that all provide CDR. Hitting max CDR on anybody really isn't that difficult, ESPECIALLY if you take both ultimate had and transendence, which transendence eliminates the need to purchase another CDR item, or if you go over it, still provides you with a good amount of adaptive bonus to AP/AD anyways. The only ones who probably can't hit 45% CDR easily is some ADCs, but that's because they have auto attacks in the first place and they generally don't need it. Whilst Lulu can have her ult up every 37.4 seconds, Lux can have her ult every 31 seconds (16 seconds if she gets her reset), Annie can have tibbers up literally 100% of the time with an ult CD of also 37.4 seconds. Ezreal can easily get max CDR with just {{item:3025}} and {{item:3158}} when going into the sorcery tree even as a secondary, and a 56.1 second ultimate may seem pretty high, except that he also gets cooldown timer resets every time he lands a Q, making it much lower than it may actually seem. Basically, my point is that this isn't exclusive to just the support class. Any character can do this -- they just require at minimum one item to do so. The item itself may not even be that much of a commitment, like in Ezreal's case. Then there's the part where the last time I've seen a support reach level 16, was in a game that lasted a whopping 55 minutes. A support reaching level 16 is so rare, that you don't even have to worry about a level 3 ultimate from a support. Some games don't even last long enough for the support to even reach double digits in levels. Finally, to even get that low amount of CDR, the support has to take both inspiration and sorcery, which usually doesn't happen. Most supports take (or at least should be taking) inspiration and domination. Whilst lowering your ult cooldown by 10~15 seconds sounds useful and you may do a little extra poke damage in the laning phase, you're going to be lacking everywhere else especially after the laning phase is done. The exception to this is unless you're some kind of AP "support" like Brand, Zyra, Velkoz, or Veigar. Usually the domination rune is better, because zombie wards are still invaluably important for extending vision duration for your team (they don't even count to your ward limit and only give 1 gold to an enemy who pops them), Then even more importantly: Ingenious Hunter, which can reduce item actives (which includes trinkets by the way) by a total whopping amount of 40% is way more useful than reducing the timer of your ultimate by 15% which is calculated AFTER your actual cooldown reduction. With cosmic insight, this totals a 45% item active CDR. Now which is better? 6~11 seconds reduced on your ultimate on a class that is probably going to get 45% CDR anyways (making ultimate hat less potent), or 40~45% Active Item CDR on a class that tends to build 3, 4 or sometimes even 5 active items in a game, and this also reduces the cooldown timer on your trinket as well?
Rioter Comments
: Which is? My kind summoner, do you notice the fact adc is what can do much but after a while adc meta gets over and it’s assasin meta, where you have a champ who can click 2 buttons and a click and blow your hp away, then the tank meta a bit stabilized tanks could do soemthing, now it’s the onrise of bruisers since conqueror and the new Iriela. At this point you would think adc is strong but why would riot hurt the girls they created to have our eyes pealed to engage on them and fall to pieces
> [{quoted}](name=PERIMITION,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rchILrAY,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-03-25T08:36:43.104+0000) > > Which is? My kind summoner, do you notice the fact adc is what can do much but after a while adc meta gets over and it’s assasin meta, where you have a champ who can click 2 buttons and a click and blow your hp away, then the tank meta a bit stabilized tanks could do soemthing, now it’s the onrise of bruisers since conqueror and the new Iriela. At this point you would think adc is strong but why would riot hurt the girls they created to have our eyes pealed to engage on them and fall to pieces That's literally the meta we have right now. The only difference is that instead of Assassins clicking 2 buttons to blow your HP away, it's ADCs doing it with sustained amounts of auto attacks. The amount of times I get 2 or 3 shot by an ADC by around the 25 minute mark is very consistent. The only times I don't is when I go my weird banner of command/Zz'Rot portal support Morgana build since I end up with around 200+ armor and an adequate amount of health. To that end, ADCs can still delete me in mere seconds with just auto attacks.
Show more

Sairek Ceareste

Level 104 (NA)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion