Rioter Comments
: I don't exactly think 52% win rate is unbalanced. 48-52% should be the aim, with most champions hovering around that point. 52% is a lot different than 54 or 56%
Until you factor playrate into it. Normal winrates should be for normal playrates, and Ahri's playrate has been anything but normal.
: What they've said a lot they balance mostly around plat, with exceptions for big problems either on the pro level or the scrub stomp level. Remember when garen was really really strong after the juggernaut update? He wasn't op for pro play but they still nerfed the hell out of him cus he ruined silver games
Also because him getting to deal true damage to your for your winning lane against him was suuuuuuuuper dumb.
: Gameplay is too quick to judge based on what they think is OP...
North of 52% winrate/10% playrate for _two straight years_ is rather the opposite of balanced. I was one of the ones who got Lux nerfed for something similar. Trust me, Ahri's reckoning is looooong overdue.
: Holy shit I never thought I'd see another Jhin or Sona level circlejerk But here it is right before my eyes Ahri is objectively too strong and has been for forever. Her kit is TOO strong with TOO few weaknesses. She has all the safety of an assassin bu the pick and range of a mage. Tack on some sustain, true damage, and one of the most mobile ult in the game and you have a problem. Just because a few other midlaners were strong doesn't mean Ahri shouldn't be nerfed. A straight nerf, not a pussy number shift.
You kidding? The Ahri circlejerk has been going on forever. Can't let that foxy waifu not be OP, after all.
: Top 5 most broken champions of 7.5 in solo q
I'mo go ahead and dispute Fiora.
: It's not just now She's been busted in solo queue for MONTHS
: Why are people crying for Ahri nerfs now?
Because some of us can look at statistics and see what's actually there.
: Idea: Let Leona Passive Auto Trigger on Non-Epic Monsters
Idea: Stop suggesting something Riot has shot down every time it's ever been brought up. Definition of madness and all that.
: the new build path on cleaver is unpleasant to say the least
Good. Cleaver shouldn't be an easy first rush for any of them.
: I have never, NEVER had his Q be pathetic against anyone, assuming I'm not so laughably far behind that even Soraka is out damaging me, and that we're not only starting the third minute. 10 Qs takes down anyone. Not everyone needs to be able to use every item. It'd be downright absurd if {{champion:22}} used {{item:3107}}.
Did you even bother to read the original post? Or play against a tank who was bothering to stack armor? Also, 10 Qs is at least 24 straight seconds of fighting. And nobody just sits there and fights Nasus for that long.
: I would not say Nasus scales poorly with health but more that he can not itemize for it as early as his Juggernaut counterparts. TF doesn't provide enough health for it to be notable and most lanes require you to go FH or IBG first neither of which have health for the early game. Personally this is why I take HP per level health seals on Nasus. In all honesty giving Nasus a % pen shred on E and increasing its duration to 2-3 seconds would be a pretty significant buff to his weakness of not being able to itemize for Pen effectively. It's nice that his ult does hp shred but honestly no one ever stands toe to toe with him anymore for him to get much use out of it.
I suppose what I meant to say is that Nasus has all of two options if he realistically wants his damage to scale (i.e. Max CDR as early as possible and Sheen items) and BC is neither of those. It doesn't increase his damage or sustain the way it does other juggernauts who have %Max or %Missing HP heals, and he's all but incapable of realistically applying stacks. And...uh, redesigning his E so it has an initial burst of % shred that has a duration instead of linking it to having to stand in his E is what this topic was really all about.
: Serious question, what is Fiora's counterplay?
: You shouldn't be going "wtf guys why no tank" if you didn't pick one. And if the Yi had picked after you, neither should he.
I think Yi is perfectly justified in shitting on him in this case.
: Right now Morello is good on everyone because it provides everything a mage could need except maybe mana regeneration for utility mages. It has high AP, high cdr, and tons of mana. There is no trade off like: "Oh gee, should I buy this mana item for the high AP and grevious wounds but less cdr, or this medium AP mana item for the high cdr and mana regen? Once you have a mana item, you DO start making these choices. Your second item could be: {{item:3135}} {{item:3285}} {{item:3001}} {{item:3157}} {{item:3116}} or sometimes even {{item:3151}}. You can go raw AP from void staff, poke/burst with luden's, defense and utilty with abyssal/zhonyas/rylais, or just max out your damage against the low mr carries with Liandry's. If you go for damage, you generally lose out on utility or defense.
Like I said. _They tried that before._
: Mage itemization is great right now. Just make Morello less bloated and give it a counterpart or two and it would be excellent.
"Counterpart" of what sort? Because Riot's tried having two different mana sustain items before. It just ended with one of them never getting built.
: Remember when the only AD + MR item was Hexdrinker
Remember when mages used to bitch about how Hexdrinker/Maw alone was too much MR? Methinks the problem was never the items.
: X or Y is a choice.
Ah, so you're illiterate. Allow me to make it clear for you. Based on whichever of Nomicon and Athenes was stronger stat-wise at the time, one would be built 100% of the time and the other 0%. _It was not an actual choice_.
: Riot, why did you ruin the option of building Athene's mid?
It wasn't a choice. It was always either Athenes or Nomicon, whichever of the two was the stronger at the moment, for infinite mana sustain.
: > [{quoted}](name=SaltyKracka,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sbjIQid5,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2017-03-12T22:42:05.002+0000) > > I'm using the proper tense. The reworks on those champions are far and away better than the cancer-ass excuses for kits and identities that they were beforehand. You're comparing a stone to a Blue Whale. The "reworks" have absolutely nothing in common with the old champions, and therefor trying to compare them is completely meaningless.
I would much rather have the current champions than what they replaced. I am therefore comparing them and the comparison is meaningful.
SirΤeemο (EUNE)
: Camille abuse stopped?
They nerfed her proper-like.
: > [{quoted}](name=SaltyKracka,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sbjIQid5,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-03-12T22:02:04.313+0000) > > Yorick, Sion, and Poppy were shit. > > Old Galio's not much better. Are shit*. You're using the wrong tense.
I'm using the proper tense. The reworks on those champions are far and away better than the cancer-ass excuses for kits and identities that they were beforehand.
: This is unreal. Incredible. It just warms my heart.
Yorick, Sion, and Poppy were shit. Old Galio's not much better.
: How do you place wards without getting killed?
Blue trinket or vision-granting abilities:
: Why does Darius get to build Black Cleaver and suddenly be unstoppable?
: > [{quoted}](name=Guanxi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Jcvha02e,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2017-03-12T21:30:25.040+0000) > > She's a roaming, utility mage. Her passive and ult are used to gank lanes, and get them ahead level 6. Isn't that super obvious for people? A few MIA pings and it would let people know that she's up to something.
In case you forgot, her ult is super fast.
: > [{quoted}](name=SaltyKracka,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Jcvha02e,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-03-12T21:18:29.536+0000) > > She was super dependent on Rylai's. You know... I was thinking that the reason why she needed that item so much is because she lacked damage. Her passive is so useless and her ult doesn't even do damage cuz it's made to be a blockage.
She...uh, she did a ton of damage, actually. It was all loaded into her three spells, after all. No, the reason she was super dependent on Rylais was that it made hitting every shot of her Q braindead and helped combo into her E-W.
: Why doesn't anyone play Taliyah?
She was super dependent on Rylai's.
: He didn't mentoin AP items being underpowered and he is right that item that provides strong defensive PASSIVE, innate MR plus two offensive stats (AD + Lethality) isn't much healthy. Banshee also provides decent defensive PASSIVE plus innate MR and yet you won't find much complaints when it's Tank item. It's not much circlejerk like people being unable to read properly.
You'll find a bunch of complaints about Banshee's, actually. Admittedly, they're mostly about how it's so shit that nobody actually builds it. And I'm going to make this clear. EoN is an offensive item. Its active is used to enable offensive plays and it has offensive stats. Its active is actually useless defensively (interruptible channel and all). Now, even after the nerfs EoN might still be too strong. But until the circlejerking stops and people start making strong, well-reasoned, analytical posts about the subject, there's no reason to listen to them.
: Fizz changes in 7.5
He's gained 3% winrate and some playrate since the patch. If anything, it just needs to be reverted entirely.
: I don't follow, care to explain? His sarcasm, at least to me, would mean that he thinks that edge of night's MR should be reduced. I don't really see how that's a part of circle jerking when Edge is clearly overloaded?
The circlejerk in this case being the "all AD items are overpowered/AP items are underpowered" one that crops up sporadically. And if he'd contributed to discussion instead of shitposting, it wouldn't have been remarked upon.
: Illaoi's tentacles aren't invulnerable when she ults, she spawns them based on how many are hit in the ult circle... which THOSE are invulnerable, not the ones previously spawned.
: Most squishies have around 30 base MR. Boots is -15, Haunting is -15 but situationally built, Abyssal is +10% more damage (better against tanks tbh), and Void Staff is 35% pen, which is again better for tanks mostly. Edge, Treads, Hexdrinker/Maw, Mercurial Scimitar, and a potential Guardian's (140 without GA, 185 with GA) in late means it will be near impossible for the mage to kill the assassin even if the assassin is caught out and gets hit by their full combo. No pen except for Edge sacrifices a lot of their burst, but with that much AD and tanking, assassins could just hit the mage over and over until they die, in a bruiser or fighter pattern. Annie has 87.2 armor at 18, Zhonya's gives another 45. It'll take fucking forever for the assassin to kill her probably, but she's not going to scratch him either likely, and the assassin would probably win the lengthy trade if no one interfered (which is mostly another issue as well as the mage being out of position or the mage's team not helping for some reason). Yes, mages are supposed to lose to assassins, but I feel like the whole tanky-bruiser-fighter-duelist part is unhealthy.
I mean, eh? I get the feeling if an assassin is building tank or bruiser and still has waveclear/can just get onto an enemy and DPS them down, there are probably other problems. Like that champion's kit. [coughfucktankfizzandekkocough]
: > [{quoted}](name=SaltyKracka,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aKwIKu9p,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-03-12T15:11:32.162+0000) > > Mmm. > > IMO, what the circlejerk tends to miss is that the 30 MR on EoN isn't much, and assassins don't actually stack the AD/MR items and do well with them. but 30 is a lot when mages have to spend at least 3k gold to get around it and still get pretty hard countered by the active. At least when Assassins get an ability blocked by Zhonya's it's down for 120s and doesn't hurt them to build to counter it. So the thing is you are still comparing a lower defensive item with higher offensive value but the defense is actually better because it can be used 3 times almost in the amount of time you can Zhonya's once.
It also lasts for 5 seconds, which means that if you can avoid them for that 5 seconds, it's gone on cool down and they've got nothing out of it. And no, 30 MR is not "a lot". I know mages are spoiled due to being able to itemize for easy magic pen and deal nearly true damage to many champs, but 30 MR without any other accompanying defensive stats is incredibly weak.
: To be fair, Hexdrinker/Maw, Mercurial, Edge, and then a potential lategame Guardian Angel is hell for mages. But on the other hand, without the Lethality (other than Edge) it's far less effective.
I mean, I guess? But at that point you might as well be whining about tanks stacking Locket and Visage and Banshees and Warmogs. Sure, it's going to suck for _your_ damage specifically against them, but it's so far from optimal it's almost hilarious.
: The thing about kill stealing ...
Mandang0 (NA)
: Even if the intent is to have assassins beat mages (not sure it is), can we at least admit riot's itemization is horribly rationed out? Sorry, but forcing mages into zhonya's for armor or a deadend if they want qss active, all while the ad equivalents are very strong, is bad. Leaving morello's as the overbearing auto lock AP item is bad too, and covers up the problems with the rest of AP itemization. Go ahead and nerf the mr+ad items if you want, but let's not pretend that makes it ok to force mages into crap items just to get armor (or forcing ad champs to do the same, but at least they have boot freedom)
Hey want to guess who doesn't get to build items that give them offense and defense against physical damage? AD Assassins.
: Considering Rylai's was nowhere near how broken Lethality was, it makes sense. Rylai's was well rounded, and overpowered on some mages. Lethality was over-tuned, and good on basically any AD character.
...I don't know quite how to respond to something this stupid. Rylai's was hugely overturned for basically an entire season. Lethality items, on the other hand, all just got nerfed after about...three patches. And yes, Rylai's really was broken.
: He was being sarcastic. While he failed to put a "/s" or "kappa" at the end of it, you can assume the tone of his wording through him emphasizing "has".
Which is why it was called out for being part of the circlejerk.
: you know who hasn't fallen below a 50% winrate? {{champion:103}} {{champion:202}} and {{champion:412}} Ahri is one of the most played champs which would herby lower her winrate due to more people being bad at her. Jhin has only fallen below 50% back before turret first blood. The lethality changes ensured that most jhin players would be nearly garunteed to win lane, unless against the only adc who can zone out jhin... {{champion:51}} {{champion:412}} 's utility alone carries him through a large majority of the game. Similar to how with {{champion:53}} in that you only need ONE hook to make a play. Winrate means nothing without playrate. The only playrate of kayle at the time of this post(according to is 1% of all of league players... By your logic you are also saying that{{champion:96}} is overpowered due to him having(again at the time of this post and according to a 54% winrate and a 1% playrate. The same as kayle's winrate and playrate statistics. Not to mention that if you count those two overpowered thanks to their winrate and playrate you also have to include {{champion:50}} whom (gonna say it one more time at the time of this post at has a 55% winrate and a 1.4% playrate. Just throwing statistics means nothing without actually taking in what they mean. You haven't even proposed any types of meaningful nerfs to {{champion:10}} Evidently,you just want to change her numbers... And if you change {{champion:10}}'s numbers you would have to nerf (by your logic) {{champion:103}} 's numbers, {{champion:202}} 's numbers, {{champion:96}} 's numbers and {{champion:50}} 's numbers Which makes no sense as they are all balanced. {{champion:202}} has the best earlygame of any adc in the game. Yet Riot still allows him to scale into the lategame... do we nerf him for having a good laning phase? NO, because laning is one of his huge strengths that was intended by riot. {{champion:103}} is one of the safest champions in the game... and you want to nerf her NUMBERS????? nerfing numbers on a champion that has to NOT EVER get hit straight up doesn't work pre-rework {{champion:55}} and because it was gross for how easy a pentakill was to get. Winrates don't constitute a nerf by themselves. Make a sensible argument or don't try to argue a point which has no weight behind it. -------------------------------------- P.S. If you are trolling, you are pretty bad at doing so. Just sayin, I can at least respect someone who puts effort into their posts. Evidently you simply throw around the winrate like it's your **"BRAND NEW CCCCAAAAARRRRRRR**" from a gameshow and expect it to grab people's attention. It did but you don't look the slightest bit intelligent from that style of writing.
"But Ahri dough" isn't an argument. Ahri needs nerfing too.
RexSaur (NA)
: Edge of night got overnerfed
> [{quoted}](name=RexSaur,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=g9McNBM1,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-03-12T14:15:21.417+0000) > Item just feels shit to use now. Working as intended.
: You Agree with Galio Nerfs on PBE ?
They clearly don't want him to become an unkillable CC bot whose damage scales hard off of defensive stats. So...very much, yes.
: @Meddler - Previous Rengar should be given a second chance
The last Rengar just insta-deleted people from stealth,
: Nerfing the MR of certain AD items would be smarter than giving AP+Armor items.
Mmm. IMO, what the circlejerk tends to miss is that the 30 MR on EoN isn't much, and assassins don't actually stack the AD/MR items and do well with them.
: Easier fix, and it also stops the cancer that is AP nasus. His E now does physical damage. Ticks stack cleaver.
Mmm. In this case, I'm of the opinion that easier isn't the same as better. And it's not like I want to see AP Nasus eliminated.
: > [{quoted}](name=Wav3Break,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oVTYesIv,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2017-03-12T03:44:51.382+0000) > > Few reasons why we aren't hitting R right now to target pro-play considerations: > > - Despite R being powerful in pro, any nerf we do to it will also hit normal play a good chunk as well > - Updated Galio is about to hit Live and will contend with Shen's strategic space somewhat, would like to observe and figure out a better direction once we see how these two champs interact in terms of priority > > Given his normal play performance and priority in pro, my inclination is that we'd rather nerf Shen for pro-play by buffing the champions that are meant to deal with him over hitting him directly. (Some cool trends are in effect though, like Renekton bubbling up etc.) Thus we felt a lighter nerf on him this time around was more appropriate. The nerfs we are trying for 7.6 are aimed at his late game dueling potential, something that I believe stands to be weaker than other parts of his kit given his powerful global presence in the late game. At the same time, our PBE changes are a slight buff to his early laning, not a large one but it definitely can be meaningful in extended trades in the early game. Historically, Shen has been strategically countered by a late game duelist who could lane against him throughout the game. The nerfs on PBE are intended to push him slightly more towards that historical weakness. why did you nerf darius then? darius had a fair winrate in solo queue. why not make him viable in pro play? or you know only ahri and mid lane mages are allowed to have 54% winrates? why not make champions that counter top lane tanks that aren't fiora viable? can you please answer this question wave because it haunts me every day
They nerfed Darius because he was OP. And hey, surprise surprise, he bounced back.
: He is made the way he is to ensure that he can't wipe entire teams. When 10 champions all have a perfect set balance, what sets Nasus apart is his infinite scaling Q. It doesn't matter who you are, if you let the game go on long enough, Nasus will one shot you. That's how he works. His tank build is so that he can actually get into the teamfight and use his Q. There are plenty of champions who don't do much damage outside of what they have when someone builds resistances. Amumu can't do much damage due to resistances when building tank. Also, shitty ratios? Nasus Q has a 100% AD ratio. Any item you build is going to increase the damage by that much. You could go full AD nasus and keep selling items as you hit stack thresholds to replace them with tank items and just get retarded strong.
I'm trying to articulate just how incredibly dumb this line of thought is, but I can't come up with anything succinct. So there's going to have to be two parts. First. That mythical 1k stack Nasus? If the game has gone on that late, his team is probably going to lose. Nasus is shit in team fights, especially lategame team fights. He's slow, he's got fuck-all for range, his DPS is shit, and he's not even particularly tanky anymore because all the damage dealers should have their penetration items. And EVEN THEN he's not going to be oneshotting anyone. Second, you know what else every character has that has a 100% AD ratio? Fucking autoattacks. Nasus is an immobile melee with very little in the way of resistance steroids and a hell of a lot less in the way of damage steroids. He doesn't get to build squishy. And the less said about your asinine item build suggestion the better.
: Mages can sit on {{item:3140}}, a 1300 gold item that gives only 30 MR, for the active, yeah. But late-game, (if there is a late-game... since games tend to snowball in this season) it's a waste of gold, and we're talking about armor...not MR. Yes, mages have range, but assassins have mobility. Every class has something that counters another class. And like I stated before, their hard CC doesn't matter when it can easily be removed. As for mobility, only few mages have them. Some may have a small MS boost, or {{champion:136}}'s E, but besides that, there's only {{champion:103}}. Health isn't effective enough without the defensive stat (in this case, AR) to go along with it. The HP from {{item:3116}} was nerfed, and the gold price reduced, making it more of a "support's" item than an AP bruiser's. The only item that gives a decent amount of HP IMO is {{item:3027}}, which takes 10 minutes to fully stack, and mana-less champions (like {{champion:8}}) would be wasting gold for the mana.
ADs can sit on QSS, a 1300 gold item, for the active, yeah. But it's a slot that's being taken up and damage that isn't scaling upwards whilst they do that. But now comes the portion of the evening when we look behind the curtain and realize that wonder of wonders, QSS is not particularly common nor ever built early against any champ not named Malzahar. So that's one irrelevancy dealt with. CC is powerful and not easily avoidable. But onto the next. RoA exists. RoA is often built. RoA is fully efficient even just one minute after being built. Even Catalyst gives a fuckton of both mana and health sustain. And the circlejerk in this thread honestly doesn't seem to know what it wants. You talk about AP bruisers, OP seems to want an item to defend against assassins, Random dude #3 thinks them durn ADCs r too powerful. But you all want some generic AP/Armor stat stick because you want to 100-0 without taking meaningful damage, despite the fact that mages are clearly not in a bad spot right now.
: ADs can remove CC using {{item:3140}} or {{item:3139}}, or block it using {{item:3814}} and the only "survivability" mages have besides shields (and only few mages have those) is CC.
Mages can build QSS too. Regardless, Mages have their survivability built in in the form of range, hard CC, and oftentimes mobility. Don't forget that their items tend to sport kind of a ton of health.
: We need another AP+armor item
Mages have their survivability built in.
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