Manxxom (NA)
: Here is the thing, the game is bird's eye view, so what looks completely out of proportion when seen on the battlefield below is supposed to look normal from the main player view... Like how pyke's mask looks like bowser jr's.
Pykes mask used to look like bowser jr. They updated it after people complained.
Rioter Comments
: Maybe her civilization is kind of like wakanda. More advanced than we know and an event is going to trigger them coming out of the woodwork (pun intended). We will never know until they give us info.
> [{quoted}](name=Phieldworker,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=GlvdHYJk,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-06-07T18:45:39.126+0000) > > Maybe her civilization is kind of like wakanda. More advanced than we know and an event is going to trigger them coming out of the woodwork (pun intended). We will never know until they give us info. The thing with wakanda is they had reason to hide themselves. They didn't want the world to take advantage of the power they had found and cultivated, b/c they thought the world would destroy itself. This lady literally wants to conquer the world. Why would a conqueror want to hide from the world? Also wakanda had a distinct culture that wasnt just skin tone. :/
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Asdeft (NA)
: I feel like you should be more clear, putting remove/rework in the same category is kind of confusing. I agree with most point except Lich Bane since it is just an item that is mean to synergize purely with AP Assassins and it does so without feeling bad to build or unhealthy to play against. I can delay Lich Bane and not feel like the game is over.
Thanks, yeah it's a bit confusing but I didn't want to make the post any longer than it was. My problem with Lich Bane is you don't have to get it first item or even second; its that you have to buy it to be able to keep up in the late game.
: I agree with most of this but Liandry's and Athene's arent underperforming items (in my opinion), they see alot of usage for quite alot of characters. Liandry's can be very strong with poke mages and tankier team comps, and it does amazingly into squishier champions too, it needs to be changed probably but it itsn't in any respect a bad item. I'm not sure if anyone else uses Athene's as Much as I do but I play alot of Champions Mid that have shields, main examples being Lux and Orianna, I find myself using this item ALOT on these champs as it just provides a really nice utility that is fueled by you doing you main role of dealing damage, Froggen builds it on Lux every so often and has said he thinks it's an underrated item. The rest of the items you mentioned and the changed you proposed are pretty good, the only one I wouldn't change is Mikael's Crucible, it can actually be an amazing item for enchanter supports with shields, especially if it's Active is used well, I think it's just forgotten about since there are easier to use items like Locket that still don't necessarily outshine it.
I agree that neither are bad items. They just under-perform compared to other items in their niche. Athene's, if bought, is usually bought after having both Redemption and Ardent Censor, even though it's design makes for a great first item especially into an AP support like Brand/Zyra. It could do with some minor buffs or make its passive a bit better. Liandry's is an amazing item and has a really cool thematic. It just requires you to completely change your build if you want to make the most use of it. (e.x. Say you are Generic Mage mid and you are deciding which items to go, you should get a mana item like {{item:3285}} so you can stay topped off on mana. Then you think {{item:3151}} looks like a nice item. But then you realize that you need some way to reliably cc someone to do as much damage as possible with it. So you need {{item:3116}}. But is that better than just going {{item:3165}} {{item:3135}}? A lot of times it's not. That's my point. It's a great item, but I find myself regretting purchasing it a lot of the time over just magic pen. Mikael's is straight up broken in the hands of good support that knows when to use it's active. It's just not common to see them and almost never bought. Hence why it was in the Low Usage Rate area of my post. Thanks for the the feedback! I really appreciate the time spent making a legitimate well-thought comment. {{sticker:poppy-wink}}
Skias (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Scream Engineer,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=BE56qAN1,comment-id=003c,timestamp=2019-04-05T19:33:56.016+0000) > > Here is a list of all the items I could think of over the span of 1-2ish hours that might need to be removed/reworked. I might make this it's own post, but we'll see. > > --- > > > **Items to Remove/Rework:** > Unhealthy: > > * {{item:3161}} Spear of Sojin > * 20% cdr, health, and good effect make it a very good bruiser item, but It absolutely breaks certain chamions {{champion:24}} {{champion:92}} > * {{item:3124}} Guinsoo's RageBlade > * The Phantom Hit effect is very strong on certain on-hit characters {{champion:67}} {{champion:10}} It's so strong on them that it limits their build options > * {{item:3512}} Zz'Rot Portal > * {{champion:14}} was specifically nerfed because of the Inting Sion strat that came from this item and Demolish > * {{item:3147}} Duskblade of Draktharr > * Hear me out, I do not think the lethality is broken. The amount of vision control this item provides while being a **VERY** good assassin item is a bit ridiculous. All other vision items are utility based or support items. It could be okay, but I think other classes should have access to vision items as well if Duskblade stays. (see item recommendations) > * {{item:3025}} Iceborn Gauntlet > * Anytime a ranged character can use this item well {{champion:112}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:43}} they have to be nerfed > * {{item:3022}} Frozen Mallet > * {{champion:150}} was nerfed into the ground forever ago because of this item. He still rarely sees play and has only recently started to get a winrate above 47% on 1% playrate due to a recent buff > * {{item:3100}} Lichbane > * AP assassin's like {{champion:131}} {{champion:28}}{{champion:245}} do insane amounts of upfront burst damage with this item. I feel like it limits their build options, they can't build items for the current situation b/c lichbane gives them too much damage to pass up. It doesn't see play anywhere else besides {{champion:37}}. > * {{item:3071}} Black Cleaver > * The combination of AD, CDR, and HP make this item extremely good for most bruiser characters. The problem is that Marksmen like {{champion:236}} {{champion:203}} {{champion:67}} pick it up a lot now too. It seems to give too much power for too many roles. > > Low Usage Rate: > > * {{item:3091}} Wit's End > * I'm glad you decided to give some attention to Wit's End, but you made it even more niche than it was. It used to be good option for ranged onhit champions against a magic dmg team. Due to the below 50% health requirement for the heal and the heal reduction, ranged characters cant use it very well anymore. IMO it only seems good on attack speed bruisers like {{champion:19}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:77}} > * {{item:3512}} Zz'Rot Portal > * Just not used much, and when it is it's very powerful/obnoxious > * {{item:3056}} Ohmwrecker > * I honestly forgot about this item > * {{item:3222}} Mikael's Crucible > * Rarely sees play > > Not Impactful: > > * {{item:3151}} Liandry's Torment > * Outshone by {{item:3165}} except on a few champions like {{champion:17}} {{champion:69}}. Any other mage that wants to build it usually has to build a slowing item {{item:3116}} {{item:3030}} to make good use of it first. > * {{item:3009}} Boots of Swiftness > * These boots are bought very seldomly, and do not provide much. In most situations it's better to go {{item:3117}} (for the speed) or {{item:3111}} (for the slow reduction) > * {{item:3174}} Athene's Unholy Grail > * Almost never built as a 1st or second item for supports. It is outshone by {{item:3107}} {{item:3504}} > * {{item:2053}} Raptor Cloak > * Never used b/c it builds into items never used and it's passive is only good situationally > > ---- > > > **Suggested Items** > > * A Marksman item that gives the ability to place {{item:3363}} or use an effect like {{item:3187}} /Quinn **W** in order to give adc's the ability to counteract the vision removal from {{item:3147}} . Potentially a rework for the current shielding {{item:3046}}. Note: {{item:3363}} wards cannot be ward hopped to, so Lee and Jax should not be able to abuse it > * A replacement for the phantom hit effect on {{item:3124}} that give attack speed characters more kiting ability to make up for the potential removal of phantom hit. > * Armor/Health item besides {{item:3800}} that gives CDR for tanks like {{champion:154}} who can't build {{item:3110}} {{item:3025}} > * An AP heavy melee assassin item that does not trigger on-hit to replace {{item:3100}}. Maybe an active with very small aoe (Graves W) and range for a 1 or 2 second smokescreen that obscures you from enemy vision and deals poison dmg to anyone inside when cast. This would help AP assassins get into a fight and stay alive a bit longer without having to ult/flash out while also reducing their upfront damage from lichbane. Every item with an effect is bad, got it. Lol
... I didn't say that. I said that these items are problematic and can be worked on. There are plenty of items that I think are well designed and balanced. Scruffy literally asked what we thought should be worked on.
Rioter Comments
: Item Shop Cleanup
Here is a list of all the items I could think of over the span of 1-2ish hours that might need to be removed/reworked. I might make this it's own post, but we'll see. --- **Items to Remove/Rework:** Unhealthy: * {{item:3161}} Spear of Sojin * 20% cdr, health, and good effect make it a very good bruiser item, but It absolutely breaks certain chamions {{champion:24}} {{champion:92}} * {{item:3124}} Guinsoo's RageBlade * The Phantom Hit effect is very strong on certain on-hit characters {{champion:67}} {{champion:10}} It's so strong on them that it limits their build options * {{item:3512}} Zz'Rot Portal * {{champion:14}} was specifically nerfed because of the Inting Sion strat that came from this item and Demolish * {{item:3147}} Duskblade of Draktharr * Hear me out, I do not think the lethality is broken. The amount of vision control this item provides while being a **VERY** good assassin item is a bit ridiculous. All other vision items are utility based or support items. It could be okay, but I think other classes should have access to vision items as well if Duskblade stays. (see item recommendations) * {{item:3025}} Iceborn Gauntlet * Anytime a ranged character can use this item well {{champion:112}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:43}} they have to be nerfed * {{item:3022}} Frozen Mallet * {{champion:150}} was nerfed into the ground forever ago because of this item. He still rarely sees play and has only recently started to get a winrate above 47% on 1% playrate due to a recent buff * {{item:3100}} Lichbane * AP assassin's like {{champion:131}} {{champion:28}}{{champion:245}} do insane amounts of upfront burst damage with this item. I feel like it limits their build options, they can't build items for the current situation b/c lichbane gives them too much damage to pass up. It doesn't see play anywhere else besides {{champion:37}}. * {{item:3071}} Black Cleaver * The combination of AD, CDR, and HP make this item extremely good for most bruiser characters. The problem is that Marksmen like {{champion:236}} {{champion:203}} {{champion:67}} pick it up a lot now too. It seems to give too much power for too many roles. Low Usage Rate: * {{item:3091}} Wit's End * I'm glad you decided to give some attention to Wit's End, but you made it even more niche than it was. It used to be good option for ranged onhit champions against a magic dmg team. Due to the below 50% health requirement for the heal and the heal reduction, ranged characters cant use it very well anymore. IMO it only seems good on attack speed bruisers like {{champion:19}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:77}} * {{item:3512}} Zz'Rot Portal * Just not used much, and when it is it's very powerful/obnoxious * {{item:3056}} Ohmwrecker * I honestly forgot about this item * {{item:3222}} Mikael's Crucible * Rarely sees play Not Impactful: * {{item:3151}} Liandry's Torment * Outshone by {{item:3165}} except on a few champions like {{champion:17}} {{champion:69}}. Any other mage that wants to build it usually has to build a slowing item {{item:3116}} {{item:3030}} to make good use of it first. * {{item:3009}} Boots of Swiftness * These boots are bought very seldomly, and do not provide much. In most situations it's better to go {{item:3117}} (for the speed) or {{item:3111}} (for the slow reduction) * {{item:3174}} Athene's Unholy Grail * Almost never built as a 1st or second item for supports. It is outshone by {{item:3107}} {{item:3504}} * {{item:2053}} Raptor Cloak * Never used b/c it builds into items never used and it's passive is only good situationally ---- **Suggested Items** * A Marksman item that gives the ability to place {{item:3363}} or use an effect like {{item:3187}} /Quinn **W** in order to give adc's the ability to counteract the vision removal from {{item:3147}} . Potentially a rework for the current shielding {{item:3046}}. Note: {{item:3363}} wards cannot be ward hopped to, so Lee and Jax should not be able to abuse it * A replacement for the phantom hit effect on {{item:3124}} that give attack speed characters more kiting ability to make up for the potential removal of phantom hit. * Armor/Health item besides {{item:3800}} that gives CDR for tanks like {{champion:154}} who can't build {{item:3110}} {{item:3025}} * An AP heavy melee assassin item that does not trigger on-hit to replace {{item:3100}}. Maybe an active with very small aoe (Graves W) and range for a 1 or 2 second smokescreen that obscures you from enemy vision and deals poison dmg to anyone inside when cast. This would help AP assassins get into a fight and stay alive a bit longer without having to ult/flash out while also reducing their upfront damage from lichbane.
Squad5 (NA)
: Ornn changes on PBE
This seems really cool! I really like that you are taking the time to address him. I really enjoy playing him, but I feel weak when i play him right now. I agree with almost every change you have except the R2 change. I don't think Ornn should receive diminishing returns for hitting multiple champions with his ult. I do not think enemies should be trying to be hit by it to reduce the cc duration for the rest of their team. I think if at all possible people, including front liners, should be trying to dodge it.
Terozu (NA)
: This is false. It's Bard, confirmed many times. Also Zoe seems to be more powerful, not to mention the actual gods of the game. Which Aurelion Sol is not.
I was simply saying that A-sol is stronger than him Ryze. Therefore, Ryze cannot be the stronggest
: I was told this was a Voidborn, like Velkoz or Reksai, not a true Watcher— They are much much **much ** bigger/scarier.
Aww :( I really wanted it to be true! Watchers need to be released!
Infernape (EUW)
: https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/champion-preview/wonder-above
that's more of a constellation and not an actual watcher
Infernape (EUW)
: Second. Bard's teaser showed a Watcher.
I just rewatched it. I didnt see it. Can you link a timestamp?
: But even Aurelion Sol is afraid of whatever creates the void rifts to Runeterra. > I shudder at the thought of what kind of entity is capable of inducing such a volatile rift.
If A-Sol is scared of it Ryze doesn't stand a chance without the runes.
: Not the first..
For official watcher stuff I think so.
: > [{quoted}](name=Scream Engineer,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WwJiJE6J,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-07-26T15:19:28.997+0000) > > I assume the barrier inbetween them is a extremely strong seal on the Watcher. The World rune may have been powering it too. Could lead to us getting more Watcher lore or a Watcher Champ! Pretty sure I heard that Ryze with or without world runes is the strongest being in League of Legends? Correct me
Aureleon Sol without the controlling crown on him. He could literally create another star ontop of Runeterra with the snap of a claw.
: Yeah. And Ryze sh**ed on him holy shit
I assume the barrier inbetween them is a extremely strong seal on the Watcher. The World rune may have been powering it too. Could lead to us getting more Watcher lore or a Watcher Champ!
  Rioter Comments
: Take a look at "Chogall" from HoTS This is what I expected when I first saw Kindred's teaser
While a champ like Cho'Gall is interesting I don't think league has a place for a character like that. The differences between the two games is just to large.
l MrD l (NA)
: tbh id love to see an execute mechanic for wolf? compliments the theme of those that accept death face lamb and get a swift arrow and those that run get mauled by wolf .. having that sort of mechanic is something if love to see
Rioter Comments
: Oh, I actually didn't know that. Nevermind then, I guess I'm wrong here. {{sticker:sg-zephyr}}
: That's accurate, not really biased. As soon as the mark shows up, everyone in the game can see it. They know exactly what paths to ward or what camp to clear based on whether they want to wait and collapse on kindred, or clear it so she never gets the chance to take it. The only thing making it not perfect and only great is that Kindred might never go for it, but that's easily solved by clearing it.
: >Do you like their mark's giving the enemy team perfect information? A bit biased question there. Generally, in a poll or survey, you don't want to lead people one way or another. There's ways to word that in a less biased manner.
I tried to make it as unbiased as possible. How is it biased. Perfect information is a term used for games like chess where both players have all the information at all times.
: This is the opinion of a 1,500,000 mastery point diamond Kindred main who fell in love with Kindred on release, Kindred right now is in their worst spot they have ever been in. I am not talking about win rates or how they work in the meta, I am talking about what really matters, How fun playing Kindred is, and right now they are not fun at all. Kindred went through two events that i dont think Riot really grasped how those two would affect Kindred together. One is the nerf to Kindred's armor and hop CD scaling with Q rank. This change alone was a very good idea to tone down Kindred's early game power, which was really oppressive at the time. The armor nerf didn't affect Kindred's HP while clearing, because they kite the camps but it did make their dueling weaker so they had to pick fights better. Then we have the other event, The change to the mark system to where Kindred's mark now scale their auto range and abilities. Kindred's abilities scaling off marks was a really good idea to where now kindred has to have marks to scale at all. The auto range change was weird but didn't really matter because with their abilities scaling off marks now, it was still the same as before so nothing really changed about Kindred, right? Wrong, because Kindred now starts with only a measly 500 auto range. These two changes together now leave Kindred with 500 auto range, 4 second hop CD, and no armor. This post is gonna be pretty long but i wanted to clarify that i'm not just crying for buffs but have no idea whats wrong, i'm not just a bronze trashcan ranting about why i lost my silver promos to my team again. I'm not hoping riot makes them OP and Kindred is META pick easy wins. I'm hoping riot will use some of this to make Kindred what they should be, fun, because Kindred is not that right now. Before i get into any suggested changes, i wanna share my vision of Kindred, to ensure i am as crystal clear as possible. After all, what i want from Kindred might not be what everyone wants. These are just my thoughts and what i feel the duo grim reaper of the rift is lacking. Kindred should be a self reliant Marksmen jungler, that has the skirmishing potential to be able to contest their marks, in order to scale into the late game. Kindred should have to have marks in order to scale.If Kindred does not have marks, they will severely be lacking in the damage aspect. They can still offer utility through their ultimate and through playing safe and making smart decisions with their ultimate, get back in the game. A Kindred that has been playing good from the beginning and gets a early lead, should be able to start collecting marks at a very fast rate if no one is smart enough to deal with them and eventually, become a monster. Now current Kindred does have most of this in some shape or form. Kindred being able to send wolf out allows for them to get vision, their abilities scale off marks, and their ultimate is a thing of beauty but ill go over that later. So the core game play of Kindred is already there, Riot just needs to tweak it like most champions need, but for some reason has failed to do so, so here i am with a helping hand to address the problems i have stated thus far. Fair warning i will not have strict numbers on any of these, as without being able to test it, i have no idea what would be OP or not. I will give vague ideas that Riot can work on to see if its OP or not. I would love to get in a discussion about what would work and what wouldn't though, because i have been playing Kindred for a long time now and i will never be forgetting my time playing as Kindred. * Changing the mark system: First thing that needs to be changed is Kindred's auto range scaling with marks. You can only feel the effects of this mechanic when you have at least 10 marks. Till then you basically only have normal range and the main pressing issue with this mechanic is it guts Kindred's early game. Kindred's kit feels horrible to play with 500 range, the only way 500 range works is if you give Kindred back a 2 second hop CD and make them like a Kalista early game. Which has already been proven it doesn't work, as it becomes too oppressive against melee junglers (everyone). You could also give Kindred SO much damage that it doesn't matter that they don't have mobility or defensive stats (which i guess is what you are going for since those are the "buffs" you have on the PBE currently), but Kindred is still gonna feel horrible strictly cause of the 500 range and i can guarantee you its gonna get reverted or nerfed even harder. I suggest just make it to where they have a normal range (550, 575, 525 if you give them a lot of damage) and make the marks give some kind of damage on hit. Also scale their abilities even more into the mark side to where they do little damage without them and big damage with them. * How marks are seen: I never quite understood from a game stand point AND lore stand point why Kindred's marks are seen by everyone AT THE SAME TIME. Yes i agree the enemy should be able to see the marks because the person is marked for death but i think a super easy fix to Kindred is just to make it to where the enemy doesn't see the mark till it's fully done cooking (i guess?) on champions, and give the jungle marks the same kind of mechanic, to where only Kindred sees its about to mark. Then when it actually marks the enemy sees it to. This allows for Kindred to prepare marks and will mark Kindred WAY less feast or famine. The very way marks works is just downright weird in every aspect, the current marks are feast or famine the mechanic. Like a mark spawns, you are either strong enough to take it or your behind and you can't get it. Not even including the heavy RNG that comes with it. With the new marks even if your behind or just the same, you can still ward up or try and gank the lane closest to where it's spawning to try and swing the odds in your favor. Marks with how they are now are a flawed mechanic and just downright not fun. * Make Kindred feel like a duo: Don't really need to point out how little wolf does in Kindred's kit but here are some fixes. 300 IQ super easy fix is to just make wolf smarter. If you made wolf follow targets in bushes, he would at least not be seen as the dumb dog the game play makes him. Some more stuff you can do to the W is make wolf always auto things that are really close to you, but activating W makes him go out and do what he normally does doing more damage the the W passive. You can make the E to where if the W is active, Each of the two autos leading up to the third one has wolf maims them and slows them(could leave it as the current maim where he slows attack speed too, probably OP though). Making wolf always attack but making W active do more makes it to where wolf is always with you and he would actually always help, which would make him feel like less of a sidekick. Also adding some kind of interaction with wolf with the three hit E would help too, don't have to use what i stated, just something that could work.(BTW lamb doing physical and wolf doing magical is a pretty good idea to make them feel different but the same, so dont change that) * Kindred's Ultimate: Finally the ultimate and how NOTHING SHOULD CHANGE ABOUT IT. Reading on the Kindred Reddit about how Kindred's ultimate should be changed triggers me to no end. After all this thought i could not come up with a single ultimate idea that beat the current one, without it being OP. Kindred needs some form of utility to be a self reliant Marksmen jungler but having it not on the ultimate would be weird for many reasons. Kindred's ultimate is the best thing about Kindred in terms of what a jungler needs or just its super fun. I could go on for hours about how Kindred's ultimate has infinite value but isn't OP strictly for how awkward it is to use. I can agree it does not fit Kindred lore wise but at this point i would argue it is a iconic ability that Kindred is known for having. This turned out quite a bit longer that i intended and im sorry for the wall of text. It's just that I played league of Legends for quite awhile before Kindred was released and never really fell in love with any of the champions but when Kindred came out they were all i could play. I only ended up reaching diamond because i wanted to see how high i could go with Kindred. I never cared that i would have people flame me for picking a "troll champ" and end up intentionally feeding. I was playing Kindred because I had a blast doing so. I have been playing Pyke now non stop because after trying him out for the heck of it, I had a absolute blast playing him and im hoping Kindred can one day be as fun as they were back then(please no more 500 range).
I read the entire post, and I would highly recommend copying it and pasting it as it's own forum post. You bring up a lot of good points and most people don't read through the comments. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
Rouxful (NA)
: so I can find the sister post tomorrow
Yup! I'll create an edit on this post with the link, so just come back here tomorrow and you should see it. {{sticker:vlad-salute}}
Rioter Comments
: Maybe something to affect the visibility of marks. Right now, it's too easy to shut her out in the enemy jungle. Since they all know where the marked camp is. And with the current scuttle meta(Which almost no one at all likes) she has to try and compete with the current jungle picks, which are all mainly strong early jungle champs, for them. So she's more reliant on marking champs, but that puts you at the mercy of your team most of the time to set up ganking opportunities for you, which is only more likely at high elo. So right now, she's pretty much 1v9 when it comes to the matter of marks below I'd say plat at best. Though thankfully marks aren't completely necessary to be effective, they are helpful. and she doesn't scale nearly as fast as Nasus or Veigar for example. Especially since after a certain amount, wolf only marks Baron/dragon/Rift herald.
I agree with everything you said here, and I have an idea for a fix. It'll be in the sister post later.
: The last couple of patches have pushed Kindred even further to the wayside, so they definitely need something to help them out.
Yup next patch they are getting some pretty decent buffs, but I would really like Riot to explore another rework/minirework for Kindred. With the marksmen itemization nerfs and jungle changes I don't see their current kit working very well in the jungle since it is so intertwined with crit items now.
Rioter Comments
: Im reffering to how all of her nerfs weren't nerfs because they compensated her (over compensated some times) in the same patch they nerfed her almost every time.
All of their nerfs were net nerfs unless you count being able to mark someone 15 seconds faster good compensation for reducing q dmg by 45 max lvl and lowering the slow + dmg of her e in patch 6.11? That is the best compensation they got pre-rework. Post-rework they had only gotten buffs so it doesn't apply. Also what does this have to do at all with the topic. They haven't been touched at all for literally 12 patches, not including the QOL recently, despite having obvious problems.
: Kindred got a year and a half of broken changes that did less to balance her because kindred players were saying dont nerf too hard she is balanced now while ripping through people with poorly balanced % damage (not just on her though nearly every instance of max and current hp damage in the game is too high.)
I honestly don't know what you are talking about. They were released op and received nothing but nerfs and re-balances until their rework [Source](http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Kindred). After the rework they were weak and got buffed, but they haven't been overpowered since her release.
: ... no... kindrid marks arn't the issue.. the issue is riot stupid fucking change that needs to flat out be reverted. i will literally not play this game again until this shit is fixed, yeah kindrid is completely fucked... about 30 more junglers also just go completely fucked by this. the only thing comparably as bad as this change riot has done is "dynamic que" that is the ONLY thing that beats this out in terms of complete stupidity. i dont like giving riot a hard time i really don't they do some great stuff. but their balance team is composed of complete fucking morons or the people in change silence the people who speak up against thier insanity, and the same people have either left the company or are now too scared to talk back to thier supervisors. congrats riot. you finally did what you managed to do in season 5... you made me quit. last time it took you 8 months until i came back. how long are u planning on waiting until fixing your fucking bullshit this time. becuase i am flat out not playing this game with this change here. i warned you.. EVERYONE fucking warned you. but nooo YOU DON'T FUCKING LISTEN. and yeah.. i am swearing... congrats.. u ACTULLY got me to swear at you... you want to know why? BECUASE I FUCKING CARE. I LIKE THIS GAME. and i have to fucking stop playing it because you CHOOSE to make it COMPLETE SHIT. AND THAT FUCKING PISSES ME OFF RIOT. Whoever is in charge of your balance team.. whatever complete fucking moron lets this jungle exp change through. congrats.. u completely alienated over 1/5th of your playerbase. you want to know what i see your your "youtube channel" ADVERTISEMENTS FOR LEAGUE you want to know what you NEVER had to do in the past ADVERTISE like that. and u know.. what.. i am going to go out of my way to WARM people about how much your balance team is a group of fucking morons who wont stand up for what is correct and what is needed in this game. you have ONE game riot... JUST ONE. your ENTIRE COMPANY is based around LEAGUE. do u REALLY think you can pull shit like this? and not face consequences? im only one player yeah. but guess what. i talk to people. i will NOT play your game until you fix your shit. i have done it before. don't believe me? check my match history from season 5. i certainly hope u can get your shit together soon, because i really enjoyed this game..
Dude, if you arent happy about it make a post. It doesnt do anything to complain in an unrelated thread
: {{champion:203}} needs a full rework. Maybe keep the Q and the W but everything else needs to be rethought.
I fully agree. I made a post a while ago about it https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/s74OB64b-kindred-problems-and-my-idea-for-a-rework-to-fix-them-post-your-own-ideas-d I really need to remake it, I want to change a bunch of stuff in it.
Rioter Comments
: If only Riot actually cared about keeping Kindred somewhat viable FeelsBadMan
Riot never seems to care about the stranger characters like Kindred, Gnar, Lissandra, etc... They just nerf them and say they will work on them later and never do it.
Rioter Comments
: 8.10 and Kindred
Honestly I think with the new jungle changes Kindreds marks should appear - 0-1: Gromp, Krugs, Raptors, Wolves (Kindred's Jungle) 2-4: Scuttles, Gromp, Raptors (Enemy jungle) 4-7: Scuttles, Krugs, Wolves (Enemy jungle) 8+: Blue, Red (Enemy jungle) I also think epic monsters should always give a mark.
Sukishoo (NA)
: Well, it usually is, cause the champion concept and in-game are generally designed before they make all of their promotional art. Even in his splash art, which is one of those that comes together near the end of production doesn't have that mouth/mask anywhere near the size of the teaser.
Art is done last, it has been stated many times. But it still doesn't explain the different styles of art used on the mask. The splash art still has the same style as the teaser.
Sukishoo (NA)
: "closer to the orginal" Sorry, but why do you assume the Artwork used for a teaser is the original?
That's the same as me asking why do you think its not the original. It's irrelevant. My wording was bad, but I think the splash looks cooler. I also think they can deliver better on the ingame mask texture. Is that so wrong? As a customer I have the right to complain about something I don't think looks good.
: Honestly the mask just looks silly, like he stole it from a kid...more specifically https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/videogames-fanon/images/4/48/SMG_BowserJr.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/200?cb=20140616233003
I was trying to figure it out, but it looks exactly like a bandana/face mask you would buy at a souvenir shop on the beach. Point being it doesn't make sense. https://www.hoorag.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/shark-fishing-toon-motorcycle-face-mask-bandana-front-HRT07-1024x1024.jpg
Sukishoo (NA)
: Artistic Freedom. They can do things in art that they can't completely do in-game.
I'm a game designer and level designer in college. The texture for a bandana is extremely simple to make due to the relative flatness of it. I agree with artistic freedom, but they could easily make his mask scarier/closer to the orginal in game.
Rioter Comments
: Guess what champion I am
Rioter Comments
: Why are people complaining that tanks are op?
I personally have been taking tanks mid and building them full ap, because runes can allow you to survive lane. Not to mention they have pretty gpod early stats. Noone expects a Nautilus to blow a ryze up at lvl 5.
: Hey man, adding additional damage to monsters or minions is something that we generally try to avoid if we can. That's not to say that we don't use it ever, but it's usually when we don't have another option. I totally agree that adding percent bonus damage to monsters is an easy way to accomplish a goal of "let Nautilus jungle", but there's also something to be said about us not being overly prescriptive of who can/can't jungle through the use of this mechanic. Personally I've gone back and forth on this quite a bit, at times I feel really strongly we should just do a pass on champs to put them in the jungle by adding bonus damage to monsters, but then other times I do agree with the argument that it's kind of a sloppy way of doing so, and sets us up for problems down the road. Not to mention the fact that Nautilus is currently struggling across the board, not just in the jungle, and some sort of signalling that's just "he's better in the jungle but no where else...sorry laners" is kinda shitty. That being said, we're currently looking at adding another line to this changelist that "should" be skew more heavily towards the jungle - likely early base shield on W or early bonus attack speed to help out with his early clear. Either of those changes will also obviously help out top and support, but should disproportionately aid his jungle clearing.
Is there any reason riot is focusing his early game state more than overall state? On another note I 100% agree with not giving his abilities extra dmg in the jg, but I don't think cooldowns are the way to go either. I think his current cooldpwns give him very apparent times of power, which I think shows good balance. Some short term stuff that could make him better are stat increases, passive dmg, passive early root duration, or changes to w numbers. In the long term is love to see a small or large Nautilus rework that focuses on making him feel more like how he looks in the new dawn short. (FRICKING AWESOME)
xCatBugx (NA)
: First off happy birthday dude! As far as a virtual gallery goes I super appreciate the idea but sadly it has to be printed off into a physical book that I'm making. It's all part of a dominos in a really big plan. <3
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Scream Engineer

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