rujitra (NA)
: No, it does not. It has to be specific enough that *the intent is known*. The language “we have sole authority to decide if you violated these terms” is specific enough to display the intent. If you feel you have a case, please feel free to sue them. But you don’t. **** That being said, no, they don’t just “[twist] the language to suit each case they review”. In fact, you’ll find quite a few cases on the boards of punishments that were incorrect being overturned. Yours was not in error. You were subjected to the same rules and review process as everyone else would be.
yes it states that it has the sole authority to decide if I violated the terms which i did and admitted to doing. but nowhere does it clearly state that using a slur will lead to an immediate last warning.
: Should have thought about that before throwing your account away. Your options are A: make a new account and learn from this, or B: quit
I would rather go with option C. where I try to warn other players that riot can and will use unwarranted punitive measures as they see fit and that their outlines are a wash and no one should use the player chat whatsoever if they value their account.
: you were told flat out, "stop doing what you're doing or you're gone"...they literally told you that... I'm finding your story about the support person hard to believe, do you have the text from that exchange?
I can screenshot the conversation I had with the staff member i'm just not sure how to put it in here
: do you really need to be told that throwing around homophobic or racial slurs is a bad thing? i think i'm done responding to you, you're clearly not listening to anything anyone is saying and I honestly don't think you want to hear anything besides "yes you're right and everything about RIOT is wrong" good luck on your next account{{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}}
yes we do need to be told that's the entire responsibility of a punitive system is to clearly define what kind of action will merit what kind of punishment otherwise it would run the risk of unjustly handing out judgement.
rujitra (NA)
: The terms of use say that Riot has the sole interpretive authority. That means it doesn’t matter what you think, it matters what they thing. If you were unclear on this after your first couple punishments, that’s not their problem. Furthermore, the word “excessive” has both of those definitions in common English usage. Your ignorance of that, or your ignoring of one of the two **common** uses does not change the fact that your toxicity was excessive in severity - even if it was not excessive in frequency/duration/length/etc.
when you're in any contract the language has to be very specific and if the language used is in contention then lawyers and courts would have to decide on if the language can be interpreted in any specific way not the interested parties. I do agree that Riot can hand out any punishment it sees fit however it can be a warning to players that your staff does not care how it conducts itself and has no problem twisting the language to suit each case they review
: At this point, the only thing you can 'gladly accept' are the consequences of not following the rules. You're not in a negotiation, and you already had several chances to decide whether your account was worth putting your fingers to the keyboard.
I had exactly one not several. and I have stated that I would gladly accept any temporary punitive measures and the guild of my behavior isn't in question. It's the severity and the hazy nature of why such a harsh penalty could be tossed at any player should the riot employee feel as though it is acceptable.
: considering RIOT classifies the things you said under "zero tolerance" I would argue that ANY usage of them AT ALL would easily fall into the "excessive negative behavior" category it's zero tolerance for a reason, quit trying to justify your toxicity, it's just getting pathetic at this point
where does it clearly outline zero tolerance and also zero tolerance would mean instantly banning my account
rujitra (NA)
: You were previously given temporary measures, and each time you were warned that further abuse would result in a permanent ban. You did not heed your warning. Again, Riot does not have to clearly define the behaviors - and in fact such a task is futile and impossible. The agreement you signed with Riot states: * Riot has the sole determination as to if something violates the terms * Slurs **are** explicitly listed as unacceptable in the agreement * Riot has the authority to punish your account up to and including a permanent ban. In addition, Riot warned you with your most recent punishment that further misbehavior would result in a permanent ban, which you ignored. You have a much better argument if you try to claim that your behavior shouldn’t have resulted in a *punishment*, but trying to claim that Riot doesn’t have the authority to permanently ban you is flat out wrong.
How do you know that I was warned by Riot with my most recent punishment? it's stated by Riot "There is currently no way to view the previous suspension reform cards."
rujitra (NA)
: Excessive does not solely refer to *amount*. It also refers to *severity*. A good example is someone who commits murder may be put in jail for 20 years on the first offense. Likewise, someone who is arrested for drug dealing 10 times may be put in jail for 20 years. Both are excessive. The first is excessive in severity. The second is excessive in amount/duration.
"Excessive does not solely refer to amount. It also refers to severity." that is very open to interpretation which in the matters of punitive measures should never be the case and in the case of a permanently suspended account it is highly irresponsible to use loose interpretations to justify such harsh actions.
rujitra (NA)
: I’m sorry, what? I’m not sure if you didn’t read the terms of use or just chose to ignore them. The emphasis below is all mine and not present in the original terms of use. > 2.1.2. Us.We may **terminate or suspend** your account if we determine, in **our sole discretion**, that: > (a) **you have violated any part of this Agreement**; > (b) we have stopped offering the Riot Services in your region; or > (c) **doing so would be in the best interests of our community**, the Riot Services, or the rights of a third party. > **We may make such determinations, among other ways, by using automated systems and machine learning tools.** So, they establish they have the **sole and only** authority to decide if you violated the agreement, and you agree that they may do so using automated systems. Let’s look at another thing you agreed to: > While using the Riot Services, you must comply with all laws, rules and regulations in the jurisdiction in which you reside. **You must also comply with certain additional rules that govern your use of the Riot Services (the “Code of Conduct”)**. The Code of Conduct **is not meant to be exhaustive**, and we reserve the right to modify it at any time, as well as take appropriate disciplinary measures including account termination and deletion to protect the integrity and spirit of the Riot Services, **regardless of whether a specific behavior is listed in the policy as inappropriate**. In addition to the Code of Conduct, please review the Summoner’s Code for additional guidance on exemplary gameplay behavior. > The following are examples of behavior that warrant disciplinary measures: >v. Transmitting or communicating any content which, in the sole and exclusive discretion of Riot Games, is deemed offensive, including language that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, sexually explicit, or racially, ethically, or otherwise objectionable; They seem to make it very clear that the terms of use are not exhaustive meaning they do not list everything. But even then, they **do** list that your sort of behavior is not acceptable. So yeah, they did make it very clear that sort of behavior is banned, and they shouldn’t need to defend it, as you agree to the terms of use every time the game patches. It’s not their fault you didn’t read it.
I have already stated that I fully agree that my actions were unbecoming and I would gladly accept any kind of TEMPORARY punitive measures and would try in the future to curve my behavior given the chance and agree the homophobic slurs and toxic behavior have no place on the rift. However the point of contention is that the reason given for a permanent ban was my "Excessive negative behavior" which 2 offences in the span of a year does not make. it is also a point of contention that it is not clearly stated that homophobic slurs are considered "Excessive negative behavior" so why did that give you the right to deem it so without any kind of warning to the players.
: Nah, dude, sorry. It's been published for years. https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/207489286-Instant-Feedback-System-FAQ-
yes as I said it is stated that "Excessive negative behavior" can lead to this however it was the first offence on my account since a chat restriction given to me more than a year ago so the excessive nature of it doesn't add up.
: Riot has stated multiple times that they're not interested in finding ways for extremely toxic players to keep playing or to keep spending money - they want them to stop playing. The only way for you to reform is to create a new account.
But I don't want to start a new account nor do I want to continue being a toxic player
: > [{quoted}](name=Scrumf,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OxrnZPTR,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-04-08T02:14:16.601+0000) > > it does not allow me any opportunity to reform my behavior at a later date. it does, just not on that account > [{quoted}](name=Scrumf,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OxrnZPTR,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-04-08T02:14:16.601+0000) > >Full disclosure the first incident involved my using a homophobic slur to which i received a 2 week ban which I agreed was merited when you received this punishment it stated on your punishment card that ANY NEGATIVE BEHAVIOR would result in your permanent ban nothing about this seems unjust
The unjust nature of it is that the terms of use and summoners code make no mention of this and the employee wasn't able to defend their own position on the matter to the point that they simply closed to ticket with no resolution
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