Rioter Comments
: I had this same issue but reversed black instead of green. I contacted Riot last night and they are aware of the bug and intend to roll out a fix this week.
Oh, that's good! Thank you for letting me know.
Rioter Comments
: Real talk, most of us don't actually care about the sexual preferences of fictional characters (in a game that isn't pornographic in nature) Personally I find it annoying when it is highlighted in overt ways. I don't read the lore of epic, larger than life heroes, to learn about their love life. What is this, a soap opera? Additionally, I feel that it's not realistic to place a high amount of emphasis on sexuality of characters because for most people it's not such a big deal. Do you announce that you're gay to everyone you meet? Is that normal to you? It should be just as abnormal as me announcing that I'm straight. Breadcrumbs are cool because it does add some depth to the characters to give them interactions with each other, but if it gets to the point that it's like "BTW TARIC IS SUUUUPER GAY IN CASE YOU DIDN'T GUESS!" then no thanks, that's detrimental. I get that you want to feel "represented" but maybe your sexuality is too core to your identity if you can't feel enough resonance with characters on any other basis besides sexuality. Most gay people I've known share these sentiments.
Let's stop pretending that subtext that can easily be denied or characters turning to the camera and announcing they're gay are the only two options here. This argument gets thrown out a lot and it speaks to me of somebody who hasn't actually put very much thought into their opinion, and is simply having a knee-jerk reaction without considering the options in between. There's literally no reason why a character can't be written to be in a relationship with someone of the same gender in a way that feels organic and natural. After all, many champions in this game already have similar relationships in their stories, they just happen to be straight relationships. And yet, you aren't complaining about the fact that Lucian had a wife, or that Gangplank and Illaoi used to date, or that Zoe has an obnoxious crush on Ezreal, or Xayah and Rakan's relationship. There's no reason to ignore the fact that writing gay characters in just as many varied and nuanced ways is possible, and not even difficult.
: > [{quoted}](name=Reimari,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Apu9NoEs,comment-id=001f000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-22T03:10:12.488+0000) > > Darius has a relationship with a woman in his background stories, there's a comic about it. Other examples include Lucian and Senna, and Gangplank and Illaoi. Ashe and Tryndamere are also married, but I think that's more of a political thing than a romantic one. Azir had a wife and family. There's lots of examples, and these are just the ones I could think of off the top of my head. There are almost certainly more. Lol. Didnt know about any of those. But i also dont care about other peoples relationships. Its a curious thing that lgbt groups seem to put so much importance in relationships. Going to research why later.
Straight people care just as much about relationships, if they have them. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
: I value lore highly but why would you try to tell someone how to write the stories they come up with if you actually value the lore. Riot does a pretty decent job so let them handle their work how they will.
It's called feedback, and if you look to the left of this thread, there's a list of guidelines for this board, one of which is "DO provide feedback and tell us what you want more of." What's the problem?
: > [{quoted}](name=Reimari,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Apu9NoEs,comment-id=001f0000,timestamp=2018-05-22T00:57:00.153+0000) > > No, that would be sloppy and ham-fisted. I want more champions whose lore and stories feature same-sex relationships in the same way that many champions already have relationships with other people in their stories. Who has relationships? The only one i can think of is rakan and that chick
Darius has a relationship with a woman in his background stories, there's a comic about it. Other examples include Lucian and Senna, and Gangplank and Illaoi. Ashe and Tryndamere are also married, but I think that's more of a political thing than a romantic one. Azir had a wife and family. There's lots of examples, and these are just the ones I could think of off the top of my head. There are almost certainly more.
Polekbast (EUW)
: I think it shouldn't be that there is a character that just goes into the game to be gay. But I think if the character goes on and screams:" Hey look at me I'm gay I'm here to represent LGBT!" is wrong. It should be a sidefact and not represented as a Major point but rather as a naturalness in this world that characters can be gay but nobody cares because it's normal.
Yes, exactly! There's no reason that it can't simply be a natural part of their stories.
Kögâ (NA)
: So all your saying is you want riot to explicitly say more champions are gay in their bios?
No, that would be sloppy and ham-fisted. I want more champions whose lore and stories feature same-sex relationships in the same way that many champions already have relationships with other people in their stories.
Relaxe (NA)
: Can we talk about the fact that people can be gay without having to be outed by the community as a whole in some snowflake-explosion kind of way? Exactly what does wanting to knob someone of the same gender have anything to do with the game whatsoever? Why do you need a character to have "the gay identity", when you're obviously just looking for some kind of gay stereotypes to be reinforced in gameplay? Are you looking for Taric to have a voice line that says something about how he needs a good Bear in his life?
Obviously not, and if you take the time to actually read any part of this thread you would understand that, instead of jumping to conclusions and making up arguments in your head. This isn't a useful or constructive contribution, this is simply you wildly misunderstanding the premise of this thread and overreacting in a pretty extreme way.
: Honestly, in my mind Riot is doing the right things by being ambiguous and only mentioning sexuality (to any side) when it's an active part of the champions story or who they represent. Riot isn't going out of it's own way to blatantly state who is gay just as they are not going out of their own way to state who is straight. This lets players enjoy their champions as they want to enjoy them leaving Riot free to focus on making quality champions overall. I've never personally felt the need to have a champions sexuality mentioned just for the sake of mentioning it, I genuinely find that detrimental to a characters design. I feel this way because unless it is something the champion is structured on ({{champion:103}}) you are not developing a character because you want them fleshed out and interesting, you put that aside to shove in what is essentially irrelevance to the overall champion. If we have to chose between any level of strong design and any level of pandering, I would chose the former every time. This is just my opinion but I hold it pretty strongly. I don't want a a single champion lore to open up with something like "this old, gay warrior" just as much as I don't want vice versa for straight champs. And to be real, leaving most champs ambiguous is part of the fun. The lgbtq community doesn't need Riots imput to enjoy champs anymore than straight players do. There's nothing saying a straight woman can't enjoy Graves just as much as a gay man can, especially since Riot has never really shied from enjoying a champion's physical appearance regardless of their gender, orientation or who they may be target towards.
This thread isn't about asking that characters be labeled that way, though, but about having things like that come through in their lore and side stories.
Onotori (NA)
: When you have the same groups of people pushing for the same vain bullshit over and over and over and over and over... it gets old after a while.
Why don't you go find a thread that you would actually enjoy posting in, then? I'm here to hopefully have a productive conversation, not work myself up into a rage! That can't possibly be healthy for you.
: Hi there, I'm also on the LGBTQ spectrum, seeing that that B in there refers to Bisexual individuals just like myself. The thing with homosexual characters, as already stated before, is that there's frankly not a very good way of actually confirming their sexuality without it either feeling tacked on, seen as just a PR move, or simply feel forced or unimportant to the character as a whole. Love is a very strong force, and one I think is the most important in this day and age, but sexual expression seems so utterly pointless and mundane nowadays. I don't know how it's like in America, or other countries for that matter, seeing that I live in Switzerland, which is at the heart of Europe, but sexual orientation isn't a big deal here. The next step to gay acceptance isn't actually trying to aim for exposure, but rather for normalization, why should we even give a damn about who we like to sleep with and who we choose to love? It's given way too much weight, and I think that's the thing bothering a lot of people. But if you ask me, sure! Give us some LGBTQ characters! As long as they're characters that can stand on their own and their sexuality isn't all of their character. Give their SO a strong role in their lore, flesh them out, don't just go, WELL X is X so they like to sleep with Y. No, gimme actual characters with relations to other people, that feels natural, that feels right. Just my own silly two cents on the matter.
Yep! I don't disagree with you. I'm just wondering if we will eventually get that strong, fleshed out lore, or if it's just going to be vague subtext that can easily be denied, you know?
Onotori (NA)
: ***
And there's nothing more indicative of an unbreakable ego than throwing a temper tantrum online because of one thread asking for thoughtful discussion on a videogame forum, I think. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
: But it would be forcing their hand anyway and this usually falls into poor writing. Look at what happened in Overwatch: "The game mascot appeared in the christmas comic with the intention to buy a present, a fight brakes in, she saves the day and goes to his friend's house to enjoy the dinner in company... Oh and btw she is gay, get your token!". While I went a bit hyperbole, this is the exact feeling I had from reading it, there was nothing more than a panel where they had to fill in a (sorry for the term) social justice request the same way they did when they removed a victory pose of her because she had her latex-covered butt showing.
It's not really forcing their hand if they talk about this being something they want to do more of, is it? I'm not forcing Riot to do anything, just asking "if that's true, then where is it?"
: Exactly because they made it in a natural way and mostly through inuendos and such because no1 goes in public shouting: "I LIKE !" just because so every1 knows about it and can better relate with them. I mean, there are a lot of shades in how to portray those things and Riot is doing a decent job in it imo. I just would like more about champions meeting and doing something together now that we are approaching the second or third chapter of their stories.
I really don't think anybody is suggesting that characters should publicly shout whether they're gay or not in this thread, though, just that there could stand to be more stories like the one about Tamara, just with actual League champions instead of npcs. You're arguing against a person that's not posting here right now.
: But it would be really uncompelling to have it wrote in like a character sheet thing. It's like their sexuality is just something to fill a checklist.
Who says it has to be on a character sheet? It could simply be part of a story involving that character and their everyday life.
: But I said that the story would still work (since it is about sacrificing personal attachements for the greater good)... {{sticker:sg-lux-2}} I only dislike the idea of forcing sexuality when it serves no purpose: Cait and Vis relationship could create problems, since they are partners in the policeforce and dating on the job is a bad idea, so why would any of them make this information public? Leona and Diana could totally be in love to make the Lunari Solari clash more tragic, but that reminds me too much of romeo and juliet. Jinxs sexuality has very little to do with her character, since she probably values the fun more than the relationship.
Would allowing the reader to see that aspect of their relationship involve "making that information public"? We as readers have the privilege of being able to see the private moments between characters that are just as important to building up their characters and personality. Maybe there's no reason for Caitlyn and Vi to announce to their coworkers that they have a relationship, but a scene like a comfortable quiet moment with just the two of them would establish that relationship just fine without running into a problem like that. There's always a creative solution for conveying that information to the reader. Leona and Diana, for instance, don't even have to be in love as they are now in their story. Diana is on the run and Leona has discovered some kind of big secret that she needs to tell Diana. This seems to be a major part of her motivation to search for Diana. What happens when they find each other? This secret could be something that could lead to reconciliation and the unification of Solari and Lunari. Throughout this process Diana and Leona could grow closer and eventually become lovers. This is just an example to show that you don't have to spell it out to write a plausible relationship.
: I wish everyone made constructive posts like this on the board that actually leads to conversation, so I'd like to thank you for giving my brain and my eyes a break and something very nice to read. Personally speaking I don't mind or care if there's this kind of stuff in the game. Not trying to be crude mind you! I like the lores, I like the stories. They are all fun and add something to the game. But since my indifference exists, I am not trying to say I don't support these kind of things being in the game, I really do! But at the same time it doesn't influence me. Them being x doesn't change anything for me because I don't think it matters if they are or not. I'm autistic- with Aspergers, so higher functioning autism. I'd like to ask a small explanation on why it's important that characters have those kind of things in the first place. I don't care about skin color or gender, or sex etc. Representation is a GOOD thing in my opinion, but again as I said them being whatever they are shouldn't matter in my opinion. So why does it matter- not to the extent of "They shouldn't be in the game because those people are less" matter, but more along the lines of: "People should just be accepted as who they are so why does it matter that there are these characters in the game?" Is it just someone to relate to? I can understand that to an extent because Ashe seems to be shown as intelligent and a fierce fighter and I highly enjoy that aspect of her personality. I'm all about helping people and trying to be intelligent with what I'm saying, hoping to make an impact by fighting for higher causes... digressing. What I'm really asking is can I have the benefits outlined possibly as to why it's better to have representation outside of the simple presence of the ideals that those of different gender are accepted? I know YOU are asking a question towards Riot as to the philosophy of the representation of the goals they show to have with movements like the icon, while the representation in comparison seems few and far between when it comes to the tidbits that you aforementioned. I felt like this WAS a step towards what you're talking about personally, it's a tiny step, but I felt it was a good step as you seem to as well. I can't speak for Riot, but maybe they feel it's not engaging enough to have be an aspect, or maybe they feel similar to me on how it shouldn't entirely matter- again I think representation is and should be in this game and more of it should be added. I want to stress this while reiterating! We have Varus right, he's the combination of the two male lovers, fused together and has a demon controlling them. That part of him is more of a dramatic entrance rather than touching on the basis of their relationship, it was more like it was added to show the realization of the character. To give them a backstory that had a unique perspective mixed into a conglomeration of a demonic archer. I think if they were to take what you're saying under consideration would be a good thing, and I think they will need to make the dynamic more impact. Maybe even unrequited love from a champion to come to another that exists. Some might write it off as a joke but I think it would be a decent step in the right direction for a character's bio stepping stone to exist. It needs something that draws users in to give them something to think about and to normalize it. I feel like love is a good way to do so because it's already so diverse and exists in so many ways in the lore currently. It might be really interesting to see, but without that kind of factor- and this particular paragraph is more like echoing things I've already seen. I feel like it does need to have some impact to have "relevance." When it comes to League as a Media, but I definitely think MORE wouldn't harm the game and will add diversity that doesn't harm but strengths a community's resolve to fight for people's rights to be treated as equals. And what's more equalizing than using familiar concepts in a story that could fit any archetype but we choose something like the above?
Wow, thank you for the thoughtful response! You say that it doesn't matter to you specifically, and that's fine, but the fact of the matter is that it does matter to other people, myself included, and Riot seems to care about that. For me, it kind of comes down to putting your money where your mouth is, you know? Riot clearly is a company that wants to be seen as a diverse and inclusive company, and, if you're a giant game developer, having the characters in your game reflect that is a really good way to show your level of commitment to that philosophy. Lots of companies start doing little promotional rainbow things around this time of year since it's almost Pride, and most of the time it rings hollow and seems like a cheap cash grab. Having the substance to back up your ideals would go a long way towards not seeming that way, don't you think?
: To me it's not about the words, it's about drawing the readers attention to the fact that they are gay, straight, or otherwise. It's about showing rather than telling if that makes more sense. I personally liked the way Riot handled Valmar and Kai, because all they did was show two people who are in love. The other details of the relationship were secondary and were not key to the story. The same goes for Xayah and Rakan, and Lucian and Senna, the only part of their relationship that has any bearing on the story is that they love each other. In the end their genders don't really matter. I guess it's mostly about making sure diversity does not feel forced. Some people want diversity for IRL reasons, but if it isn't added naturally it could ruin an otherwise good story. It's not really about the what, it's about the how.
Yep! So my question is simply "why isn't there more of that?" I think if there's only one example of that, it really feels like it was simply on a checklist, right?
: Basically what FloRaider42 said. I'm not against revealing a characters' sexuality at all, I just don't want it to be part of a checklist like the blood type and their favorite drink.
And this whole thread is about the fact that it absolutely doesn't have to be, and that doing it isn't some kind of insurmountable task if you are a good writer.
: That comic in question was about sacrificing your love and child for Noxus, so a female champion would only be able to fullfill the first part of that goal. If you opt for a female champion the story would still work, but as so many people have mentioned already: **The revealed sexuality serves a purpose in the narrative**.
You can think a little more creatively than that... there are many different ways an f/f couple could have a child, or a similar loved one that could use the same themes, right?
: **_Disclaimer: Initially I thought the OP wanted something ingame to display characters' relationship that wasn't simply about the VO, that's why the first part of my reply talks about it._** > [{quoted}](name=Reimari,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Apu9NoEs,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-05-20T19:44:15.348+0000) > My question to you is: **how is this philosophy reflected in the work that you produce?** So far we have Varus, who is two half-dead boyfriends trapped in a body controlled by a demon, and some extremely, extremely minor characters in stories that don’t have any impact on the game itself. Better than nothing, I guess? But is “better than nothing” the best we can do? My question is: Why should there be more? Right now the only example of a relationship affecting the game is the one between Xayah and Rakan and to be fair, the fact that they have different genders is just to make them more easily distinguishable, there is no social behavior involvement in the choice. Anything that is about a character personality and such is better to be kept in the lore, stories and some in the VO. Other than that it's just forcing stuff in the wrong place. Edit: There is also no need to simply unveil any characters' sexuality unless their story brings them together with their other half. Right now there are a lot of inuendos between multiple characters and for now that is the best choice of action.
Not really sure what you mean by your edit... For instance, in Darius's lore, there is a comic that reveals his relationship with a woman. You can read it [here,](https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/comic/darius/bloodofnoxus/) if you like. Would you argue that this is forced and unnecessary? How would you feel about the exact same comic if Darius was a female champion?
: No character that Riot has made has been revealed as heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual. That detail isn't important to who these characters are, and doesn't impact their stories in any way. Personally I'd like to keep it that way. That's not to say relationships shouldn't be present, it's just to say that the relationships should be a secondary background detail in the larger story. So far all relationships have been handled in a way that says "these two are in a relationship". This goes for all relationships that have been mentioned by Riot, they simply are what they are with no extra weight drawing attention away from the story that is going on. It doesn't seem like sexual preference has much of an impact on Runeterra, and as I said I'd like to keep it that way. Hopefully I got my point across well enough, it can be a touchy topic and sometimes I'm not very clear about what I'm saying, so if something sounds off please don't hesitate to ask for clarification.
This seems like pointless nitpicking to me. I don't mean to say that those words need to be used or anything like that, just that it would be good if there were characters who did have relationships with people of the same gender, for instance. It does no good to say "well you never know what someone is so they could be interested in anyone", you know? You have to show that in your work somehow.
: **_Disclaimer: Initially I thought the OP wanted something ingame to display characters' relationship that wasn't simply about the VO, that's why the first part of my reply talks about it._** > [{quoted}](name=Reimari,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Apu9NoEs,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-05-20T19:44:15.348+0000) > My question to you is: **how is this philosophy reflected in the work that you produce?** So far we have Varus, who is two half-dead boyfriends trapped in a body controlled by a demon, and some extremely, extremely minor characters in stories that don’t have any impact on the game itself. Better than nothing, I guess? But is “better than nothing” the best we can do? My question is: Why should there be more? Right now the only example of a relationship affecting the game is the one between Xayah and Rakan and to be fair, the fact that they have different genders is just to make them more easily distinguishable, there is no social behavior involvement in the choice. Anything that is about a character personality and such is better to be kept in the lore, stories and some in the VO. Other than that it's just forcing stuff in the wrong place. Edit: There is also no need to simply unveil any characters' sexuality unless their story brings them together with their other half. Right now there are a lot of inuendos between multiple characters and for now that is the best choice of action.
What I meant by this is that the gay characters in the lore and stories are, aside from Varus, just nobodies who aren't relevant in any way to the game. I'm not suggesting it has to be some kind of in-game mechanic like Xayah and Rakan, but there's no reason other champions can't be revealed to be gay through their lore and stories. I'm not disagreeing with you at all!
Onotori (NA)
: ***
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by vanity, but I feel like you could have probably organized your thoughts in a way that was less angry and aggressive for no reason.
Arakadia (NA)
: Some people argue that there needs to be a reason for a character to be gay. That it has to have a purpose (like Varus's romance). The thing is, in real life, lgbt characters don't have to justify themself or their existence. There is no justification or reasoning for why Pyke is black, and it doesn't interfere with his character so its fine. Similarly, there doesn't need to be a reason for a character to be gay. And including lgbt representation in a game to look good and inclusive isn't a bad thing. Thats would be like saying that donating to charities to look good and compassionate is a bad thing. Even _if_ the motivation wasn't true, its st ill a positive effort. So I am all for more diversity. Statistically, there should be multiple lgbt characters in League.
Yes! I definitely agree. I don't feel like a character's sexuality has to be some major part of their character arc(although, of course, it CAN be) or anything like that. I think that, if you're striving for diversity in your characters, rather than asking if there's any reason for a character to be non-white, or a woman, or gay, it makes more sense to ask if there's any reason for them to NOT be black, or gay, or a woman, or whatever. That's a process that I feel like leads to more natural-feeling characters overall.
  Rioter Comments
: Not every x-man is gay, and that's even more obviously a metaphor for gay rights. Just because Riot's using a metaphor doesn't mean that the metaphor has to be literally true too, you know? And just because Lux's design references Madoka doesn't mean she has to BE Madoka, right? Plus, bisexual people exist! Because they didn't have Star Guardian Ezreal in mind when they made up that voice line. All that voiceline is was a reference to their possible relationship in the previous canon, which makes no sense in the retconned Runeterra. Likewise, that's all that Ezreal's connection with Lux in the Star Guardian story was; just a reference to a previous story. I understand that you're upset there isn't an outwardly LGBT champion. I am too. But it doesn't specifically have to be Lux, and I think that your reasoning to think it has to be Lux is suspect.
X-men was created in 1963, I think we can shoot a little higher than "metaphor". Also there is a link in my op to another thread I made that describes my reasoning in far more detail than I am prepared to repeat here, with a followup post in the thread when someone asks me to explain further.
: Blizzard, the single worst company? I'm sorry, do we need to talk about that Hitman game with SM nuns? Because I'd prefer to avoid that, if I had a choice... Blizzard is far and above the average standard of the industry. Which does not mean much, because the industry as a whole is terrible, so above "terrible" may not be very good. But calling Blizzard "the worst" is downright ridiculous...
Blizzard regularly had staff members in the forums mocking people who had any complaints about the story and the way they treated their female characters and things like that... also they can't let go of their racist as hell witch doctor character and stick him or references to him in every single one of their games... I feel like that's pretty bad. And I was referring to like... major developers, not smaller ones. There's plenty of trash to pick over there
: Hi Dolljointed, As has been mentioned elsewhere, SG Lux is not Lux. 'Prime Runeterra' Lux has had no change in the portrayal of her sexuality, whatever that may be. I'm very sorry you feel I lied to you, it was certainly not my intent. When I responded to your original post, it was in regard to exceeding the expectations that have been set previously in handling the topic of sexuality in League's stories. I still believe we will do much better than we have previously, though that in itself isn't a promise to make Lux herself gay. I'm sorry if I gave you the wrong impression, it was in no way meant to be malicious or deceptive. To be clear, what I mean is this: we are aware of a lack of representation of LGBTQIA in previous stories and characters. Many of us at Riot fit into one or more of the letters in the aforementioned acronym. There are reasons why I can't go any further in my explanation of things specific to content, which sucks, I know, but it's one of the pitfalls of the conversation. I wanted to respond to you to say we hear you, to give you encouragement that we didn't take gender/sexuality issues lightly, and that I have complete belief that we will be demonstrating that through content. However, there are things that I couldn't, and still can't go into due to responsibilities to product teams, etc. I did not intend to specifically imply that Lux is lesbian, and if I did so, I apologize. What I wanted to state is that we will do a better job in expressing the many colors of the rainbow through stories and characters as we move forward. I still believe that.
Thanks for your response. I would like to ask you to consider that it would be incredibly messed up to take a character whose lore you have written to be an allegory for being closeted, complete with conversion therapy and the fear of being found out and everything else that comes with it, and make her straight. I personally would consider that to be taking those issues pretty lightly. But I mean, you've already taken a character whose entire design references Madoka and gotten her involved with a boy, so I don't know how far you're willing to take that. How is this development supposed to jive with her voice line? It would seem to make no sense. I mean it still triggers with her SG skin, right? Also, in the 6 months since I made that post the only thing you've done is stick Tamara, your one(1) gay character, into a few panels of a comic featuring a splash page of Darius having sex with a woman. I would really like to believe that you are making an effort but I feel like this is a pretty bad result after half a year. Good will can only last for so long.
: Sorry if I come off as an ass but after seeing countless of these kinds of threads wanting X character be LGBT or Riot releasing one just to have one in league's roster I want to know: Why is that important? I see a lot people use the same argument of wanting to relate to a certain character and them being unable because they don't have the same sexual orientation than them. Isn't relating to character traits and vices and virtues easier and overall more genuine than their choice of romantic interest? I for once couldn't care less who the champions I play would want to have a relationship with as long as they're still the characters I can relate to by HOW they act and what their personalities are. Back on topic though: Riot has stated on numerous occasions that they try not to just go and say X champion is gay/lesbian but would rather keep it open to interpretation, or better, not even make it a big fucking deal.
For someone who claims to not care you seem pretty invested in characters not being gay tbh... especially in a game that includes Xayah and Rakan being as obnoxious as possible. Really makes you think.
: I can understand your feelings, but I'd like to make two points: First, the Star Guardian stories aren't necessarily the same as the League continuity. It's another interpretation of those characters, in another setting. Secondly, there are more sexual orientations than straight or gay. It's entirely possible that, even if that DOES carry over into the standard League lore (which I suspect it does not), Lux doesn't swing just one way.
While you are correct I would like to point out that nothing happens in a vacuum and I don't understand why they would be pushing it again despite retconning it. How is this supposed to jive with Lux's voiceline that was clearly meant to sink the ship?
Naalith (NA)
: Star Guardian Lux and normal Lux don't exist in the same universe and are completely separate entities. Sure, they share some similar characteristics, but in the current lore Lux and Ezreal don't even know each other. And onto a broader point, I honestly think the reason Riot can't come out and outright talk about champion sexualities (other than just straight) has to do with other regions. I'm sure that in some of the regions that LoL is played in it is either illegal or would make the game have a higher rating, maybe putting taxes on it or something? I've noticed Riot likes to tiptoe around the issue and I'm sure it's not because they don't want to make an openly gay/bi/whatever character, they probably just can't or they'll get hit with a sledgehammer in international sales. Take Taric for example. It was super obvious old Taric was probably gay, the new reworked Taric is probably closer to a Pansexual but Riot is always like "well, you know, wink wink but we can neither confirm nor deny these allegations." So that's probably why. Just keep in mind that Lux and Ezreal has been a fan favorite ship since basically the beginning of this game and while they haven't met in the current lore, Riot saw a window to kind of make that ship come true in an unofficial sense so they did. Real Lux might still very well be gay, maybe we'll find it in 43 years when she shows up in another lore story. :)
Blizzard did it. Blizzard, who is probably the single worst company in the industry with regards to issues like racism, misogyny, and homophobia, made the face of one of their main games a lesbian. There's no excuse honestly.
  Rioter Comments
patmax17 (EUW)
: IIRC ghostcrawler more or less confirmed that the next champ is LGBT, I'm looking forward to that :D
Sure and that's great but I'm talking about Lux specifically
: Hi, Dolljointed! I can't tell you how happy this makes me (and I know how happy the principal writer on the piece will be). I'll make sure he sees this thread. Thank you very much for sharing. And I hope we can exceed the understandable expectations you mention. I'm pretty confident we can. EDIT: Just made sure before I said so, but the principal writer on Lux's bio and color text was Graham "Dinopawz" McNeill.
OMG PLEASE... teasing like that is going to kill me,, Thank you so much for taking the time to respond!! I got very emotional reading that last part so I'll hold you to it!!
Glîtchy (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Dolljointed,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=1L64yFeH,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-24T23:05:08.698+0000) > > Don't see you whining about Lucian's wife or Kat/Garen or TF/Evelynn(they have skins even!!!) Why would I? League chose for these things to be what they are, I just find it annoying when people demand genderfluid/homosexual characters in a game when it really would do nothing for the game except probably annoy quite a few, hell, Overwatch fans (including gay and lesbian fans) were GREATLY annoyed when blizzard decided to make Tracer a lesbian without reason.
But if Riot chose for Lux to be gay, that's somehow different?
: Eh, I don't see it. You don't know how old Kahina is in this story. For all you know she could be old enough to be Lux's mother. She is the one that was tasked to mentor her after all. Not to mention they already made an metaphor between magic and being gay, it would be redundant to make an allegory AND actually push this. Plus Riot has no issue with outright stating a character's orientation, as it's been done before. Personally I think you're reading too much into this, as close friendships between two people of the same sex are very possible. But if it resonates with you, then gj, the writing did its main work. EDIT: Almost forgot, the retcon of the Ez X Lux ship was because it didn't make sense with the new lore. How on earth is Lux going to be anywhere near Piltover where Ez hangs out? Even though Ez travels, the likelyhood of them crossing paths is slim to none. That's why they retconned it.
You also don't know enough to speculate that Lux and Kahina _aren't_ dating and the other stuff only serves to strengthen the possibility that they are. It's not being redundant, it's just backing up the possibility in more ways than one. Right now there's absolutely no reason that Lux couldn't be gay and it seems to me that there's no reason for you to bother trying to dispel the possibility unless you had a personal investment in Lux not being gay. Also side characters in side stories really doesn't count as anything more than crumbs and I feel like it's pretty disingenuous to suggest otherwise.
: kinda sounds like you're suddenly against lore when a character is gay to me lol there's a tendency from people who maybe don't realize that they're being prejudiced or sound prejudiced, where they try to act like suddenly the issue doesn't matter or they just don't want to hear about it. IE: when gay marriage was a big fight there was suddenly a lot people going 'well why does government even get involved in any marriages lol' as a way to be against gay marriage without being explicit about it. something for you to reflect on
Catch these people not saying a peep about Lucian's wife or the Kat/Garen thing that's been around for ages
Glîtchy (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Dolljointed,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=1L64yFeH,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-24T22:49:53.124+0000) > > "I don't have any problems with gay people I just don't want to see them in my games" lol Actually, I think that a character's sexuality should NEVER be a concern in a moba/online game (TF2, Overwatch, DOTA, League, etc.)
Don't see you whining about Lucian's wife or Kat/Garen or TF/Evelynn(they have skins even!!!)
msk51 (NA)
: I want to preface this statement by saying that I am not flaming, toxic or judging you in any way. :D I see where you are coming from, but you can't deny the fact that the gay community has been the target of some pretty intense debates recently. Personally I support being gay, go for it if you are in to that. But announcing that you are gay or not bring up certain emotions in people. It's 100% unnecessary for Riot to say either way. If they say Lux is gay or not, the community blows up. I get your points, and I love in-depth characters as well. But I think Riot should stay away from certain subjects purely so they don't stir up the players base. I played overwatch when they announced that Tracer was gay and that resulted in every game someone feeling the need to announce the fact that "tracer is gay". This would often result in a debate between players on whether it was a good decision or not. I come to video games to get away from this kind of stuff and have a good time with friends, the last thing I want to see is a bunch of debates in league games. I guess you have to look at the pros and cons. pros - We get to know that character a little bit deeper and a few people get to identify with her cons - the community blows up, often in a negative way (not saying this is right) people get offended and in some cases stop playing the game (not saying this is right) random, unnecessary debates pop up in game, resulting in a negative experience for those trying to avoid the topic (same thing that happened in overwatch) I'm not against people being gay. I'm against League announcing whether or not people are gay, aren't gay, are Muslim, are Christian, are for abortion, are against abortion, are for immigrants, are against immigrants or any other hotly contested topic in todays society. Yes there is a place to discuss those issues and I myself participate in speech and debate where sometimes that comes up. But personally, I don't want to see it in League.
"I don't have any problems with gay people I just don't want to see them in my games" lol
: So is Lux gay?
I think between the overt allegory of her magic, what we know about her relationship with Kahina, and the deliberate sinking of the Lux/Ezreal ship, it's very possible and even easy to read Lux as gay and I think she is! I don't want to rewrite all my thoughts again but i expanded a lot on these ideas in [this thread](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/qodoElch-luxs-new-lore-really-resonated-with-me) if you wanna read it.
Nylisa (EUW)
: thanks for taking the time to give me such a thorough explanation , really appreciate it. i see your point and agree with it , i'm just like you and i live in Russia...!!! so you probably can see why i would understand your point regarding hiding such things! but the thing is i didn't like the way they went out of their way to sink Ez x lux ship, the method they used i mean. i didn't agree with the ship myself but putting such voice lines in the game in order to state their point was kinda strange to me. couldn't they simply remove Ez from her related champions list?wouldn't that suffice?
I'm from Russia too! I came to America as a baby tho. I think that if they hadn't been so direct about it, then it would have been left up in the air and people would have insisted that it could still be a thing. The fact that they chose to be so deliberate about it gives me hope that this is the direction they're heading with Lux.
: Wait, are you saying that Lux is gay, or that she's a symbol for gay characters? We've seen two gay characters (granted minor ones). I don't think Riot is afraid to make a main character gay if that was their intent for Lux.
: I don't think OP is stating Lux is a lesbian, but her story is very familiar and has been lived by many lesbians in the real world. You pretty much just have to replace magic with gay. Many LGBTQ people are not accepted by the people they live with/are around whether it's family, school, work etc. Often times wishing they lived somewhere they could be accepted. I.e Someone from a country where gays are killed for being gay wishing they could live in America where it is more accepted. Lux states in her story that she wishes she lived somewhere that magic was accepted or even revered. In some cultures, bis/gays/etc were/are seen as special such as some native american tribes seeing trans/bis as two-spirit people who encompass the spirit of both a male and female. Also the part with experimental practices and procedures to "cure" the magic, that's all too real for many people who are LGBTQ. Shock therapy, boot camps where they're told to hate themselves, some sick forms of therapy, it goes on.
Exactly! That and her relationship with Kahina and the retcon of her relationship with Ezreal all come together in a very obvious way imo.
Nylisa (EUW)
: can you please explain a little more as in why you see such subtext in her story?
Certainly! I feel like I did a pretty good job summarizing why in the op though... I gave seven different points to support my reading and explained that I relate to the story because of my own experiences as a lesbian. Anyway just to expand further on this, the entire narrative about hiding an integral part of who you are in a society that hates it and is disgusted by it can very easily be read as a metaphor for being gay. This is a narrative that in real life commonly applies to being gay. The similarities are fairly obvious: being forced to hide an aspect of yourself because you will be shamed or even hurt by the people around you, a family that tries to turn a blind eye and pretend like nothing is happening because other people learning about her would bring shame to their family, even the presence of "professionals" who would "fix" her "affliction". All of this contributes to Lux feeling like there is something wrong with her and starting to hate herself. These are all concepts and experiences that are very familiar and sadly relatable to many gay people, myself included. Having established that it's possible to read Demacia's treatment of magic and mages as an allegory for homophobia, we can move on to Kahina. Kahina is established as a female knight that Lux meets and becomes friends with. In between her obligations to her family to attend public events and be visible in Demacian society, she spends her time with Kahina and their relationship develops into a "deep bond" with each other. This can absolutely be interpreted as a romantic relationship. There's also an interesting separation in the story here with Lux's obligations as a highly visible Demacian noble vs the person that it seems she would rather be spending time with. To add on to this, it's stated that Lux keeps her magic hidden while she is with her family, but can be herself when she is away on missions for the organization that Kahina recruited her into. So she can only be herself when she's with Kahina... who is also the first person that did not shame her or threaten her or make her feel unsafe or bad about being a mage. Finally, the one thing that could get in the way of this reading would be if Lux was in a relationship with a man, and for a long time there were hints at a relationship between Lux and Ezreal. However, this update also sunk that ship, with a voiceline that makes it clear that not only are Lux and Ezreal not dating, but they've never even spoken! This change, in combination with the rest of Lux's lore update, seems like a deliberate move to me and it leaves the possibility of Lux being a lesbian wide open when considered along with everything above. I hope this was a more sufficiently detailed explanation of my theory! Before I made the original post I was very excited and talked to a lot of people about this, and they all agreed that it's a plausible thing to take away from her story. I also know that I'm not the only person to reach this conclusion independently.
Limrick (NA)
: Kahina: New Demacian Champ, or Just a Throwaway Name?
: > I can view one of my favorite characters in a new light http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/000/681/what-you-did-there-i-see-it.thumbnail.jpg
It wasn't intentional!! ...at first
Hrd2H1t (NA)
: > which mostly consists of implying that a character is gay as a joke, such as in this news post where Leona swoons over Miss Fortune Maybe it was just my interpenetration, but I didn't think that was a joke. I think that was just a character being a lesbian and thus interested in another woman. Sure the joke is that she (and several other characters) are swooning over Miss fortune, but it isn't a joke because she is a lesbian, its a joke because Miss Fortune has a huge crowd of people swooning after her.
I consider it a joke because it feels like a throwaway thing that isn't ever going to get any Real development outside of that one post. It's not For Real, you know?
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Seraphic Chicken

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