Rioter Comments
: He was getting fucked last season too. It's nothing new to us. If they make it even worse I guess I'll go main Kha and Elko.
> [{quoted}](name=ChickenWrap,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mZGnMgud,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-12-21T15:58:02.158+0000) > > He was getting fucked last season too. It's nothing new to us. > > If they make it even worse I guess I'll go main Kha and Elko. I just stopped playing, fixes all the bullshit they do.
: Why does Duskblade proc off traps?
I'm amazed that you still play this game after how much they fucked Shaco in the ass with the new items and changes.
: Some Basic Shaco Math
I main AP Shaco as a support. How am i supposed to do anything now? How am i supposed to even get to the late game?
: That doesn't justify a nerf for something subjective, and he's a joke compared to pantheon, urgot, heimerdinger or zyra
> [{quoted}](name=XTRMN00B1337,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6BiXQ8UX,comment-id=000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-16T00:30:24.894+0000) > > That doesn't justify a nerf for something subjective, and he's a joke compared to pantheon, urgot, heimerdinger or zyra I was talking about Yasuo and not Shaco.
: The same about yasuo, yet everybody wants him nerfed.
> [{quoted}](name=XTRMN00B1337,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6BiXQ8UX,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2016-12-13T20:31:58.660+0000) > > The same about yasuo, yet everybody wants him nerfed. Because he's the most obnoxious laning adversary that there is.
HollowMimic (EUNE)
: Maybe xP Did u guyz see the decrease in power for both AP and AD in Shaco's E on PBE? (There was only AP at first btw)
> [{quoted}](name=HollowMimic,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EAh21U5N,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2016-12-14T09:17:05.557+0000) > > Maybe xP > > > Did u guyz see the decrease in power for both AP and AD in Shaco's E on PBE? (There was only AP at first btw) RIOT is filled with retards. Silvers do the balancing of the game.
: 55% winrate is pretty high. Considering people believe yasuo's 50% too high.
> [{quoted}](name=XTRMN00B1337,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6BiXQ8UX,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-12-13T02:27:04.811+0000) > > 55% winrate is pretty high. Considering people believe yasuo's 50% too high. those who play Shaco are his mains. A very small, yet loyal community. Look at his play rates compared to other 50% win rate champs.
: Delusional hopes of a former Shaco main
: When someone makes a post claiming your main needs to be nerfed
HollowMimic (EUNE)
: Why do people downvote a thread that asks for answers?
> [{quoted}](name=HollowMimic,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EAh21U5N,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-12-12T09:37:47.580+0000) > > Why do people downvote a thread that asks for answers? because people hate Shaco.
: How do I actually fight Riven
Just DDoS her, you get a kill everytime! No but seriously, you should just hide under a rock and put a leash on your jungler if you struggle against her :)
Moooose3 (NA)
: I'm aware of this, I've made it to promo series in 3 games before. But you don't get matched with plats after 3-4 wins if you're in gold. That just doesn't happen.
How come it has happened to me last season then..? Also my TT team, after winning a few games, only gets matched against mid-plat teams despite being only silver, i've even had people ask us why we were up against them in the first place.
: Skarners actually good
He looks good, his voice is cool, his voice lines are awesome, he's strong and balanced. Yet he's not satisfying to play apart from using his ultimate. If his Q had some impact maybe i would like playing him, right now it makes no sound and deals no damage so it's not really fun for me..
: Protip: Spamming "report X for feeding" in all chat
I also like it when i see people typing ''report X for being toxic'' and the other person hasn't typed a single thing in all chat, like how am i supposed to know if he's actually toxic.. i should just take your word on it?
: 52-53% win rate across all elos is that not enough of a reason? i mean 53% win rate is fine if it goes to like 47% in another elo with a difference of 7%. if its plus and minus 3% based on high and low, sure that can be considered balanced until the and find a way to lower the differential but 52-53% across all elos just needs a flat nerf
Oh and i guess Shyvana is getting quite the gutting this next patch, right? Oh...
Calabok (NA)
: too strong? nerf it! they also need to nerf that slut Eve
I won't forgive you for calling Eve a slut, Mr Calabok.
: That's a piss shit system, gotta say. It discourages climbing and stacks odds against you to climb at all, especially during promos.
When you're already in a division, it doesn't matter as much. It's only really in your placement matches, as soon as you start losing games, the system says that you belong a bit lower than the opponents you were just matched agaist.
Moooose3 (NA)
: That's just horribly wrong. This doesn't happen. If you're winning like 5-6 games in a row, itll put your elo up a significant amount, but not an entire tier most of the time. You may skip a division. Idk the exact elo algorithm, but if you win 3 games in a row you won't be placed against people an entire tier above you that's just flat out wrong. I've leveled up plenty of accounts from unranked to diamond and if I go like 8-2 in placements which is my average, if I get promoted without losing a single game I'll start to see an increase in my elo. Do it a second time with 1 ish loss and you may skip a division. Do it again and then that's when you'll be against players a full tier or more above you.
You'll win WAY more LP per game if you won games against higher elo players than what your rank is when you finish your placement matches. You get matched lower so that you have to prove that you can actually beat players from lower tiers before moving on to higher ones. That's what i've noticed at least. Whenever i do my promos i'm matched against silver players first, and as i win more and more i get matched against increasingly difficult opponents.
: His boxes can block skillshots when they're placed before they go into stealth, and are immune to displacement effects and damage, you should know this. That sentence is copy-pasted from LoL Wiki, but maybe the wording is awkward. >We already do it.. but the enemy usually has a chance to escape after we chunk 80% of their health, add a stun to that and it's an assured kill 100% of the time... That's why it's an execute. It's also why I've made Shaco's 'combo' take longer. He doesn't get a crit from Q unless he attacks from stealth and then attacks again. His E has it's casting time, and a short delay before he can reactivate it, so he shouldn't be able to just faceroll. He also can't get the 20% bonus damage until after he gets two backstabs, giving his opponent a chance to _face their fear_... >By the way i still don't think that the 3s delay with the enemy being notified of your traps is a good idea. No matter what you say, they would just either back off, making you waste your precious boxes or red trinket the whole place. You can't place boxes in the middle of a lane because of minions, so it would be pretty obvious where the boxes are. Red Trinket shouldn't disable traps to start with - it's a case of Riot hating Teemo and Shaco specifically. Revealing is fine, but disabling is BS. Also, to trigger the boxes you have to be as close to them as they currently require on Live. Currently on LIve the enemy can just casually walk up to them, get feared by .5 seconds and take two box autos before walking out of range. With this change, boxes now cost less mana at all levels, have a shorter cooldown, are stronger, last longer, and aren't proc'ed instantly because a minion / champion wandered too close. It also makes Shaco easier to catch, since he can't just drop a box in the middle of a run and have it CC the enemy while he gets away. It means facechecking a bush doesn't get you 100-0 with a JitB nest, since they don't spring right away. And if they Sweep your area of boxes, then you've baited out their primary means of detecting Shaco - for a minute or so at least. >Every single time you would be baiting a low enemy, he would simply walk away as soon as he heard the boxes. Or everytime an enemy would walk in the jungle or something and would get near one, the enemy would just be like ''oh, Shaco box, lets not walk down that path'' Then his boxes would be functioning as a huge zoning tool. Also, I think it would be rather difficult to hear the boxes unless you're actively listening for them and not spamming your abilities. (Is a Riven really going to hear them over all her flips and dashing? Likewise, listening for the music during a skirmish or teamfight will be tough...) >How could giving shaco's clone a 25 unit explosion radius buff make him overpowered? It would simply make it a little easier to manipulate his ultimate. But you said: "I think the ultimate's explosion radius should be 275." The Ult's current explosion radius is 125 units (within its melee range). That's why it feels like it misses so often. The total range of explosion is 250. If you make clone explosion have a radius of 275, then the total range is 500 units, which is substantially larger. (Slightly smaller than Hydra's AoE cleave, for comparison.)
Turns out RIOT should have listened to US for Shaco's champion update. Also, as for your rework concept, i have a few new ideas When you activate it, it's the same as before, but with reduced damage, and IF you land an auto attack on an enemy unit its cooldown is refreshed instantly for a short amount of time (CD starts there even if you use the second Q), If you re-activate it during the given time period you get to blink again, only to a smaller distance, with only ~0.2s of invisibility and your next autoattack stuns the target for 0.5s. I think this would provide your much needed extra time to burst an enemy time instead of 1 shotting like he was (RIOT doesn't want champs to do that anymore) Your boxes now take 1s to activate (activation timer starts right away if an enemy is in range when you put it but it takes 1 more second, making it 2 seconds like it already is), but have a second layer of activation around the original one. (half the size of the first layer) The second layer can't be activated by minions, only by champions and slows the enemy instead of fearing them. Its attack range is now as large as the limit of the second layer, but being in that zone makes the box deal less damage to you.
: We both know no one can read that with a straight face.
I like to imagine someone holding a double barreled shotgun walking rapidly towards Shaco with an angry facial expression when i double read it.
Dealth (NA)
: already done with league
When you win alot of games in a row (especially your placement matches) you start to get matched against increasingly high elo opponents. To the point that you'll be matched against platinum players after just 3-4 wins in a row.
: Riot's reasoning behind Shaco nerfs.
Ap Shaco JG is too strong. But nerfing him so hard will kick AD Shaco right in the nuts and make him even worse than he is right now, and it's going to throw a shovel at lane AP Shaco's face, because he's not as strong as JG Shaco.
robothax (NA)
send a support ticket quick
: There are many champs getting looked at for 7.1 changes. Shaco got nerfed because he was super out of line. Did you also notice how much his average games played dropped after the rework? Everyone and their grandma was doing well on him. He's supposed to be a macro/high skill champ.
''hey!! You! You can't be stronger than Lee Sin what the fuck do you think you're doing?!'' (shoots)
: Those nerfs haven't gone through to live yet. I'll be very surprised if all of them go through; they'll probably pick just one but they have limited time to test.
Eedat (NA)
: Shyv being nerfed. Lee being nerfed. Ivern being nerfed. Vi, Hec, Skarner all got nerfed with the CotC nerf. ?
ivern gets a shield nerf. and a slow duration 1s nerf. Lee sin got a decent damage nerf, but only 50 damage at rank 1 on his ulti isn't going to change much. (even Shaco's ultimate got a bigger nerf than this) You call that a Shyv nerf? lmfao. > Burnout (W) no longer does +20% extra damage against monsters. And let's be honest, CotC was cancer and they might buff champs if they start decreasing in power because of it.
: Shaco was too strong while having his damage bugged due to TLD not procing properly. So, when they fixed the bug he would default be even more out of line, so they decided to nerf him.
Also, i want to point out that thunderlord's damage is not even close to his ultimate damage nerf, let alone his other AP ratio nerfs.
Eedat (NA)
: Why is it impossible to accept that AP Shaco is overtuned?
Other junglers are overtuned too, look at the top junglers this patch, and then go check the PBE to see which ones got their damage gutted. Also, by nerfing him that hard, they remove LANE Shaco's multiple playstyles, now it's ''MAX W'' only, and it can be disabled with SO MANY different items in the game it's not even funny.
: They didn't need context. They were self-explanatory nerfs. The other 4 listed in the OP were either "Oh no the champ shouldn't get that buff it's OP Riot plz no" or "why nerf such a 'weak' champ."
When you look at other junglers who instagib everything while being unkillable, you'd think it's only fair that Shaco gets to do the same, considering how SQUISHY he is, but no, he's the one getting the nerf hammer.
: Shaco nerfs
Don't EVER expect RIOT to answer a Shaco balance thread.
: There's the miscommunication. Shaco was the least of 100-0 problems. The guy who I replied to was talking about Assassins in general, Shaco just had an overbearing early game.
Yeah, his early game was toxic to most people who didn't main him. Unless you used your wards early and made sure he didn't invade, which took alot of time and effort. But nerfing his early game and then destroying his late game is not going to solve any problem, it's only going to create problems on his balance side, of course now people wont have to worry about Shaco, but Shaco himself will become more and more underwhelming to the point that every single other champion will destroy him.
: yah idk the logic behind riots decisions. They nerf his AD build, then they force us to play AP. Then when people start doing good with AP theyre like, oh wait, sry guys we didn't mean for shaco to be good, gotta nerf that too...
AD sucks as of right now, AP is really strong, especially JG, but instead of balancing both, they're deleting both. Nerfing AD even more with his ultimate nerf. Basically deleting LANE AP Shaco, AD Shaco is now even less viable than it already is. and then the 0 context, 0 explanation, no rioter to be seen here.
: Shaco was too strong while having his damage bugged due to TLD not procing properly. So, when they fixed the bug he would default be even more out of line, so they decided to nerf him.
They give 0 context to those changes, that's the whole point of this thread, i'm not arguing if Shaco's OP or not, i just want the viewpoint of the people who thought up this nerf.
Eedat (NA)
: AP Shaco is overtuned. What else is there to get?
The point of this thread is to get some context from actual rioters, not other players. I hate how they just do changes and give 0 context whatsoever, and then proceed to ignore everyone asking for answers.
Rioter Comments
: Regarding Shaco nerfs
They won't. Their silver lead gameplay designer probably got killed by Ap Shaco and threw a tantrum. `Now you'll be able to do all your mind games, but it won't do damage! :D'' just... fuck them.
: There's nothing "git gud" about it. Why should the Assassin have so many outplay tools, yet not be subject to being outplayed?
If you wander alone in the jungle as a squishy champ, you deserve to get caught. If you're stupid enough not to get a free trinket that disables his W completly all around you in a huge radius, you deserve to die in that fight. If you don't expect Shaco to be in a teamfight because you don't see him at the moment, you deserve to get killed by him.
: I've started to hate Dark Souls for spawning that meme.
It wasnt a meme i told you, you really just have to get good.
: I've read it: you are scared that Shaco is overnerfed, you hope it's only a test, but you don't believe it because you pretend that Riot doesn't revert changes. That's exactly what you said, plus a few swears here and there. Except that Riot reverts changes all the time. So how about you stop your BS?
Sejuani. AP Shaco is strong right now, it's starting to beat Lee Sin so it's going to get nerfed. They. Wont. Revert. Those. Changes. I'll come back to this post when it goes live to flip you off.
: Of course not. We're directly calling them out on a terrible decision and the balance team doesn't like that.
But wait, they answered a lot of threads about dynamic queue when it replaced solo queue!
: This should be sticky'd. I love how they reply to other threads regarding nerfs/buffs but nothing as of yet regarding Shaco's funeral.
Took them 2 weeks before they even addressed Shaco's BUGS after his update in one of my posts, then it took another 2 weeks before they fixed it.
: Shaco is strong because he uses these items well, it gives him late game scaling. Early game he relies on base damage nearly completely so it's not much of a nerf there. Late game the ratios add up to let him kill way too quickly. Worst part is that it's hybrid damage too
: Fizz builds Lich Bane!
b-but it's too hard to play!
: Shaco's the most oppressive. No one finds dealing with Shaco "fun" or even "strategic". Yeah, Hecarim can do shit, but at least you can see him coming, and he doesn't put traps down that majorly chunk you.
Whenever i play against another Shaco i ALWAYS have fun and i never ever get frustrated. Also, you should probably get good. Get that FREE trinket that lasts 10 seconds, and that disables and reveals every traps around him, allowing you to farm them very easily, there's also the control ward which now disables invisible traps, oh and also Duskblade, which every ad assassin ever builds, oh, lets not forget about oracles Shall We? Yeah. Get. Good. It's because of bad players like you that he's getting nerfed to begin with.
: Ivern: 55% Vi: 54% Shyvana: 53% Shaco: 53% Hecarim: 52% Nocturne: 52% Jarvan: 52% Rammus: 52% Skarner: 52% Xin Zhao: 52% But yes. Shaco's the one with the biggest problems, has the most oppressive playstyle, and needs nerfs. Definitely.
> But yes. Shaco's the one with the biggest problems, has the most oppressive playstyle, and needs nerfs. Definitely. Yes. Immidiately.
: Because instant 100-0s with little to no reaction time and no mechanical counterplay wasn't healthy design.
: *Obviously* the correct answer is to build Tank Shaco.
: Why is Shaco being nerfed?
I feel like NO RIOTER will reply to this thread.
Penns (EUW)
: Idk, Ive seen AD builds work before people realized AP is opieop. Im pretty sure if he ends up being too bad after this change, if it even goes live, AD builds will get buffed.
After how many weeks? I've had to wait for about a month just for them to fix Shaco's gamebreaking bugs after his update, and now he's getting the gutter.
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Shac Norris

Level 31 (NA)
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