: > [{quoted}](name=Shacobroyo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rr14tsGE,comment-id=00110000,timestamp=2019-07-22T19:30:46.677+0000) > > I smell a troll Is that how you respond to everyone you disagree with? I'm not trolling in the slightest actually. You can't win a hard lane so nobody can, I get it. Here's one example (obviously there are more but I only checked lane opponents in games I won as Gewrn, I won't dig through history if you're too lazy to scroll past ARAMS). Plat and diamond lanes are too common to be even worth mentioning. [https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/3053823958/235957292?tab=overview] GP build is normal, I'm sure he Q'd me on cooldown like one does, and it doesn't look like he ever went afk. Seems he was on his way to demoting, maybe he was tilted? Though if the skill gap was as insane as OP suggests that wouldn't matter. Forgive me for enjoying the game lol
> [{quoted}](name=JarI BaIgruuf,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rr14tsGE,comment-id=001100000000,timestamp=2019-07-23T03:00:19.684+0000) > > Is that how you respond to everyone you disagree with? I'm not trolling in the slightest actually. You can't win a hard lane so nobody can, I get it. Here's one example (obviously there are more but I only checked lane opponents in games I won as Gewrn, I won't dig through history if you're too lazy to scroll past ARAMS). Plat and diamond lanes are too common to be even worth mentioning. > [https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/3053823958/235957292?tab=overview] GP build is normal, I'm sure he Q'd me on cooldown like one does, and it doesn't look like he ever went afk. Seems he was on his way to demoting, maybe he was tilted? Though if the skill gap was as insane as OP suggests that wouldn't matter. Forgive me for enjoying the game lol Dude was likely just bored and trolling. Hes a support/adc player. He went top lane and he consistently loses games in normals. What's happen is very likely doesn't care about the outcome and just wants to play de-stressed. Also if you look at their match history they got enough normal games to normalize their MMR. So I stand by my comment no silver player has any chance of winning to a masters level player if the person is honestly taking the game seriously if their playing their main champion 99% of the time. You got a support main trolling around top lane goofing off. It's like saying you get excited that you can beat a minor league goalie if he's playing forward, and you're a high schooler that plays forward. You shouldn't feel good about yourself after you win that match.
: Poll: Which player behavior feels the worst to play with?
Why is trolling/griefing not an option? That is the most toxic behavior in this entire game.
: Riot there's a reason we keep talking shit to you on boards instead of just leaving your game.
It's just a cost sunk fallacy at this point. Most of their playerbase fell for the hook, and have played so much they don't get the same hit they do in other games.
: Personally I love the wild matchmaking. I've played against grandmasters as a silver 4! It's exhilarating, especially if you win (which isn't as impossible as some of you seem to think, matches are coin flips). I suppose it's annoying if it's a hard stomp against your teammates, but that's just how games go sometimes. Learn from the experience, get gooder. Also I don't come across too many premades, most matches seem to have teams of randoms that choose flex because it's a bit more orderly than blind pick.
> [{quoted}](name=JarI BaIgruuf,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rr14tsGE,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2019-07-22T17:31:14.568+0000) > > Personally I love the wild matchmaking. I've played against grandmasters as a silver 4! It's exhilarating, especially if you win (which isn't as impossible as some of you seem to think, matches are coin flips). I suppose it's annoying if it's a hard stomp against your teammates, but that's just how games go sometimes. Learn from the experience, get gooder. > Also I don't come across too many premades, most matches seem to have teams of randoms that choose flex because it's a bit more orderly than blind pick. I smell a troll. Match history is ARAM and ranked exclusively. No way you have ever won a game vs a GM LOL unless they were hyper trolling.
AIQ (NA)
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=AIQ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qkzx2Eee,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-07-22T17:06:00.835+0000) > > The only problem is what if I have a new friend that is learning the game. For instance I had my cousin playing, he wanted to play against real people. If the system weighs towards him, then I'm stomping, if the system leans towards me he's getting stomped. If I make a new account them I'm just stomping and smurfing. There is no good solution unfortunately. > > Linking it to my MMR has repercussions too. I think it tries to balance finding somewhere in between, but I don't know. The game should always favor the balance for the majority of players in the game. In which case it should always bump your MMR up in normal games. In terms of creating a smurf to play with him you should be encouraging learning, but playing with him especially at your actual skill level will only hurt him. Even as a gold player when I played with my brother when he first started playing created a horrible experience for him in under two games. At that point you should be specifically hindering your own play and just trying to have fun teaching them the basics.
AIQ (NA)
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=AIQ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qkzx2Eee,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-07-22T16:37:10.945+0000) > > Just throwing this out there, I don't think anyone is out to get you in norms or abuse the system for free wins. I just want to play with my brother and friends, this month I've played a lot more normals/ TFT and ARAMs then I ever have and being in a less stressful environment has helped me improve my mental and have more fun. When I am playing ranked, I notice trolls have significantly less impact on me, despite doing the same thing they did before. > > I apologies to anyone that thinks I'm just there to ruin their day. I've had my solo 1v9 Morde games and have even played Shyvana (I'm a main with 1.4 million mastery) in the jungle a few times decimating the opponent in normals. > > I have no idea if an MMR system exist in norms. Sometimes I'm against plat+ sometimes I'm against Silvers and Bronzes. If it makes you feel better, I've played games and lost lane to golds and plats before. I myself have beaten challengers and masters that I never thought I could. Always improving is the way to go, not letting games that are stomps dictate what you do. > > I just played the new Swain into a Tryn that had almost 2 million master and was D1 I went 0/10, but with all mute and strong mental I came back even soloing the 19 kill tryn twice with nami afking for a few minutes. Point is that sometimes we will all get stomped, it's how we react to it that determines what we gain/lose from it. Norms are the best place to do that with minimal loss. The problem with this is just a simple fact you're having fun at the extreme expensive of others, and in the case that I presented they were clearly abusing the MMR to dominate people. The fact they don't have a way to join extreme MMR differences between normal and ranked creates games like the one I just had. While the solution I presented might not be amazing it's at least better than having them entirely divorced all together.
Kei143 (NA)
: I remember seeing a Vandiril youtube clip about feeding to win. The Nunu and rammus would speed into the enemy mid tower to get killed by the enemy, but in the mean while their mid laner would freeze the lane and zone off the enemy mid laner for exp and CS. The enemy mid laner would accumulate a giant bounty and they would 3 man dive the enemy mid laner and feed the kill to the ally mid laner, giving the laner a giant bounty. They would proceed to do that again to get their mid laner ahead whilst keeping the enemy mid laner at bay. I remember the Rammus and Nunu ended with like 20 deaths, but their laners were so far ahead and they would still dive into them by being super tanky and the super slows from Nunu. They won the game. Sure it was probably a 5 man premade game, but it still shows that there are strategies that can work even if you are strategically intentionally feeding.
> [{quoted}](name=Kei143,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=GBOzLdEn,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-07-19T00:34:49.252+0000) > > I remember seeing a Vandiril youtube clip about feeding to win. > > The Nunu and rammus would speed into the enemy mid tower to get killed by the enemy, but in the mean while their mid laner would freeze the lane and zone off the enemy mid laner for exp and CS. > > The enemy mid laner would accumulate a giant bounty and they would 3 man dive the enemy mid laner and feed the kill to the ally mid laner, giving the laner a giant bounty. > > They would proceed to do that again to get their mid laner ahead whilst keeping the enemy mid laner at bay. > > I remember the Rammus and Nunu ended with like 20 deaths, but their laners were so far ahead and they would still dive into them by being super tanky and the super slows from Nunu. They won the game. > > Sure it was probably a 5 man premade game, but it still shows that there are strategies that can work even if you are strategically intentionally feeding. This is like proxy singed where you intentionally bait the top laner and jungler to camp top while kiting them around while the rest of your team gets objectives. The problem with proxy singed is that if your team isn't onboard they will just flame you and lose the game to tilt.
: > [{quoted}](name=Shacobroyo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qkzx2Eee,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-07-22T16:03:56.878+0000) > #MMR abusing in normal game with high elo players > > This is unacceptable MMR for a normal draft game. How in the world do a team full of golds stand a chance vs two plats, and a D3 on their main? > > Not to mention the fact it was a 5 man group vs 2 two man groups and a solo. The MMR should have been high plat across the board. They abused the system because their kayle was a lvl 30 account. > > This game was unfun in the worst kind of way. You can sometimes carry a troll/rager. We could do nothing to stop this D3 Diana. I just played a champion I wanted to have fun on. > > Seriously link Normal MMR better with Rank for high elo players. It ruins Nomral game experience. > > I know I'm not a Diamond player I know I don't have the ability to beat a Diamond player on their main in normals. Seriously what in the world is normal MMR. "They are deliberately abusing MMR." To try to exploit wins out of normal game? Because there's no way people could have low elo IRL friends that they want to play with in a normal game?
> [{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qkzx2Eee,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-07-22T16:15:54.235+0000) > > "They are deliberately abusing MMR." To try to exploit wins out of normal game? Because there's no way people could have low elo IRL friends? I cannot link the kayle account, but it's a smurf account. So yes they are abusing the system.
Eedat (NA)
: Normals MMR is tracked separately from ranked. Generally, higher rank players play normals far less so their MMR is constantly lower than their ranked MMR
> [{quoted}](name=Eedat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qkzx2Eee,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-22T16:06:55.089+0000) > > Normals MMR is tracked separately from ranked. Generally, higher rank players play normals far less so their MMR is constantly lower than their ranked MMR I said they need to link them in extreme cases or at the very least there should never be more than an entire division differences between the two. IE this player as long as they maintain a D3 in ranked their Normal MMR is locked at least Plat3.
Hordes66 (NA)
: Except that matchmaking is genuinely shit right now, and has been since season 9 started. There has been a very noticeable drop in match quality that has been commented on many many times since the season started.
> [{quoted}](name=Hordes66,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rr14tsGE,comment-id=0000000200000000,timestamp=2019-07-21T15:19:29.942+0000) > > Except that matchmaking is genuinely shit right now, and has been since season 9 started. There has been a very noticeable drop in match quality that has been commented on many many times since the season started. I just experienced this team full of golds 2 two mans vs a full 5 man premade with a d3 and two plats the d3 on their main smashed our entire team. They abused the normal MMR by having a lvl 30 on their team. Normal MMR needs to slash over from ranked after a certain point. If your normal MMR is low silver, but your ranked MMR is mid Diamond you should be instantly buff to at least mid plat. If your Ranked MMR is ever an entire division above your normal MMR then they should just make your normal MMR default to a division below your current Ranked MMR. Here is what happens alot of high elo players don't play normal that often. When they do they usually play with their friends who have significantly lower MMR. Their normal MMR is low because of lack of games, and because of the friend MMR. However, what happens is it creates a horrible experience for the other team because there is just nothing they can do.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Karunamon,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=PlJRxn8A,comment-id=000200030000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-05T16:38:58.877+0000) > > Because there are none. If you want to go through my history for a bad call, knock yourself out - you aren't finding any. > > > To hell with "chilling out". We need to be less tolerant of toxicity, not more. Now that im home, it would be easier to put together a post with examples for you. Since most people agree Djinn had a valid point, why bother. Hard not to mention when you quote me, you only use a small part of a sentence, Thats an example of something considered pretty sleazy and lacks context. Though it sounds like most of your issue is with what Djinn had said.
> [{quoted}](name=purpleKnight,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=PlJRxn8A,comment-id=0002000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-05T20:59:50.980+0000) > > Now that im home, it would be easier to put together a post with examples for you. Since most people agree Djinn had a valid point, why bother. > > Hard not to mention when you quote me, you only use a small part of a sentence, Thats an example of something considered pretty sleazy and lacks context. > > Though it sounds like most of your issue is with what Djinn had said. This is actually something I've noticed being a consistent issue with player behavior. They have no empathy for people, and treat riot as a literal god when it comes to morality of situations. Side note why are specialists allowed to not maintain a significant number of games, and a high portion of those games to be in solo que ranked. They should be required to maintain a rank of at least silver, and play maybe what 10 games a month at least in ranked solo que? Bare minimum. These people are supposedly here to address things related to behavior when they don't experience a majority of the behavioral problems in the game due to entirely avoiding ranked solo que. While technically I'm asking for anecdotal evidence I think it's a reasonable request. It would be one thing if these individuals gave opinions with reasonable perspective to the state of the actual games community. How can people expect to get reasonable advice from someone who is a peer if they don't actually have any of the same experiences as the person seeking advise while that person also is ill informed of the current state of affairs.
: There are three things I think you really need to know about League of Legends. The reason RIOT has never done anything about Smurfs is because this is a concept that is severely overstated by the player community. There really is very little evidence that Smurfing is some sort of epidemic. Yeah, some great players restart their accounts, others do it because they got perma banned on their main, but in general the chances of you running into a Smurf in game, a player that very obviously is way above everyone's level is slim to none. There really aren't that many Smurfs out there. I know this because I get accused of being a Smurf constantly and I hear people accusing each other of being Smurfs all the time. I often take the time to investigate the age of a players account his record, his stats. In the better part of a decade I have been playing this game, I have never found anyone I thought was a Smurf that had the stats I would expect someone like that to be a Smurf. You mentioned a specific player that you suspect is a Smurf, give me his account name, lets look him up and see if we can confirm that he really has those stats. I challenge anyone on this forum to do that.
> [{quoted}](name=LordBadToo,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=lYeozvj4,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-05-10T11:36:29.671+0000) > > There are three things I think you really need to know about League of Legends. > > The reason RIOT has never done anything about Smurfs is because this is a concept that is severely overstated by the player community. There really is very little evidence that Smurfing is some sort of epidemic. Yeah, some great players restart their accounts, others do it because they got perma banned on their main, but in general the chances of you running into a Smurf in game, a player that very obviously is way above everyone's level is slim to none. There really aren't that many Smurfs out there. > > I know this because I get accused of being a Smurf constantly and I hear people accusing each other of being Smurfs all the time. I often take the time to investigate the age of a players account his record, his stats. In the better part of a decade I have been playing this game, I have never found anyone I thought was a Smurf that had the stats I would expect someone like that to be a Smurf. > > You mentioned a specific player that you suspect is a Smurf, give me his account name, lets look him up and see if we can confirm that he really has those stats. > > I challenge anyone on this forum to do that. You couldn't be more wrong. The only reason you don't see smurfs is because you're in Bronze. No smurf worth anything would be down in Bronze in the first place because you would have to lose almost all your games on a smurf to do that (which never happens) Smurfs are infested in high silver low gold due to the fact everyone wants their rewards. The reason riot doesn't do anything about smurfs is that it's another source of revenue. It's why not company does anything to stop smurfs or multiple accounts because they would rather have more paying customers than creating a smurf detection system besides inflating their MMR to high silver- mid gold in ranked. Yes they climb fast (if they are not trolling creating new accounts over and over raging at everyone). I feel like player behavior is out of touch with reality of the ranked community especially when it comes to intentionally trying to climb most of the people around here are just oblivious.
: It doesn't. You'll play against a Smurf maybe once a week. Not only is that not an issue, it's actually fairly education. If you don't play against better players, you don't get better. And if you climb *without* improving, guess what? You're burdening everyone you've climbed to play alongside. I would rather everyone play against Smurfs every once in a while and learn from the losses than having to play with people who've climbed without learning basic win-conditions. That shit is frustrating.
> [{quoted}](name=The Highest Noon,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=lYeozvj4,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-05-10T12:38:23.387+0000) > > It doesn't. You'll play against a Smurf maybe once a week. Not only is that not an issue, it's actually fairly education. If you don't play against better players, you don't get better. And if you climb *without* improving, guess what? You're burdening everyone you've climbed to play alongside. I would rather everyone play against Smurfs every once in a while and learn from the losses than having to play with people who've climbed without learning basic win-conditions. That shit is frustrating. What rank are you playing at? Smurfs are a constant problem in high silver/ low gold and always have been. Smurfs never show up in bronze because the system never puts new accounts in bronze. Silver, and Gold is where they are a significant problem to climbing.
Galiö (NA)
: I'm super surprised at the people who say 25% or less. I legitimately experience toxicity, sexism, racism, and griefing in many of my games between my accounts. Also recently I experience Endgame spoilers atleast once every other game in champ select... people just try to get on other people nerves. I strongly dislike this community :')
> [{quoted}](name=Galiö,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wuOHWeBR,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-05-08T18:46:02.556+0000) > > I'm super surprised at the people who say 25% or less. > > I legitimately experience toxicity, sexism, racism, and griefing in many of my games between my accounts. > > Also recently I experience Endgame spoilers atleast once every other game in champ select... people just try to get on other people nerves. > > I strongly dislike this community :') They likely don't play ranked. Ranked is a significant portion more toxic than normal. They also likely play with friends. Every single ranked game in high silver-low gold has toxic behavior.
: How is this not punishable?
This isn't a 14 day ban this should be an instant permaban no questions asked. This is unacceptable this person is openly intentionally ruining games for people. You want to talk about the real toxic nature of the community. These are the real people behind why the game is so toxic.
Voldymort (EUNE)
: >There has specifically been cases of false positives, and riot has oveturned them. false positives don't support the argument that reports and reports alone matter in dishing out punishments. all the existence of false positives does it prove that something appearing to be toxic behaviour is not always such >Now you have to be able to counter my argument by showing evidence that the number of reports doesn't effect likelihood of them looking into a case despite riots saying otherwise. i must have missed that line where did riot say that they investigated someone **because** of the number of reports being extensive? >I'm not sure where this idea about "proving" something came into mainstream idea. In a formal debate you make a claim, and then someone refutes your claim, then you make a counter claim, and so on an so forth till either you agree or reach a stalemate. ok i'll make a claim: i have 6 fingers on one of my legs. prove/provide an argument that i'm either telling the truth or lying without any other inpput from me on the matter. untill you refute the claim, by your own logic, i don't have to provide any evidence for said claim
> [{quoted}](name=Voldymort,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wVufIf6y,comment-id=00000001000000000001000000000000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-03-28T10:20:18.984+0000) > > yeah... i thought that' the crux of your argument: > > "riot is lying because i said so" > > we're done here! My claim is riot has no reason to tell us the full truth, and they constantly give inconsistent information. What makes you believe they are not able to give inconsistent information or outright wrong information to push a narrative. They have provided no evidence besides their own words of something. Last time I checked that's how the ontological argument works. And from the very start I said if anyone has any understand of complex systems they would know the number of reports matter in figuring out false positives, and severity of the situation. It's extremely illogical for them to ignore information like the number of reports per game. I wonder have you ever worked on a control system?
Voldymort (EUNE)
: >You just made a fallacy of a red herring btw in this post. >a red herring i'm done talking to you. for your own good please stop using words you don't understand in argumentation bye!
> [{quoted}](name=Voldymort,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wVufIf6y,comment-id=000000010000000000010000000000010000,timestamp=2019-03-28T10:18:15.273+0000) > > i'm done talking to you. for your own good please stop using words you don't understand in argumentation > > bye! You don't even know what red herring means it means making an argument that has nothing to do with the current argument to try and refute a claim specifically it's side stepping the conversation without presenting a counter claim. Actually funny enough this quoted claim is a red herring.
Voldymort (EUNE)
: ok. how is narrating what his team is doing to the enemy team **not** harassment here! i'll give you an example of what this log reminds me of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL5_LfKtpOc
> [{quoted}](name=Voldymort,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wVufIf6y,comment-id=0001000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-28T10:14:48.996+0000) > > ok. > > how is narrating what his team is doing to the enemy team **not** harassment > > here! i'll give you an example of what this log reminds me of: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL5_LfKtpOc I consider mostly what he's doing to be light banter and sarcasm. "Harassment covers a wide range of behaviors of an offensive nature. It is commonly understood as behavior that demeans, humiliates or embarrasses a person, and it is characteristically identified by its unlikelihood in terms of social and moral reasonableness." I consider it fully reasonable that someone would be upset if someone was intentionally trying to ruin their fun to at least be sarcastic about it.
Voldymort (EUNE)
: >There has specifically been cases of false positives, and riot has oveturned them. false positives don't support the argument that reports and reports alone matter in dishing out punishments. all the existence of false positives does it prove that something appearing to be toxic behaviour is not always such >Now you have to be able to counter my argument by showing evidence that the number of reports doesn't effect likelihood of them looking into a case despite riots saying otherwise. i must have missed that line where did riot say that they investigated someone **because** of the number of reports being extensive? >I'm not sure where this idea about "proving" something came into mainstream idea. In a formal debate you make a claim, and then someone refutes your claim, then you make a counter claim, and so on an so forth till either you agree or reach a stalemate. ok i'll make a claim: i have 6 fingers on one of my legs. prove/provide an argument that i'm either telling the truth or lying without any other inpput from me on the matter. untill you refute the claim, by your own logic, i don't have to provide any evidence for said claim
> [{quoted}](name=Voldymort,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wVufIf6y,comment-id=0000000100000000000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-28T10:06:42.900+0000) > > ok > > i'll make a claim: i have 6 fingers on one of my legs. > > prove/provide an argument that i'm either telling the truth or lying without any other inpput from me on the matter. untill you refute the claim, by your own logic, i don't have to provide any evidence for said claim I wouldn't be able to prove it either way without receiving evidence, but just because you told me you do doesn't mean it's a valid argument it's actually the entire bases of the ontological claim. You actually believe what riot says on their QA to be true without any data evidence or understand of their systems. Yet when someone comes out directly from riot and specifically mentions the number of reports being part of evidence to justify getting a player banned you ignore it. So you have to use logic to solve the problem IE occam's razor. How likely is it that someone would actually have 6 fingers on their toes? Then you contradicted the definition of a finger in the first place fingers are on the hand not on your toes. This is whats funny to me the entire first set up of a debate is setting up what terms mean and agreeing on them. If everyone started calling their toes fingers then they wouldn't be called toes anymore.
Voldymort (EUNE)
: ok. i'll bite. how is harassing your team in chat not toxic?
> [{quoted}](name=Voldymort,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wVufIf6y,comment-id=00010001000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-28T10:04:04.125+0000) > > ok. i'll bite. how is harassing your team in chat not toxic? You're making the assumption that we agree on what constitutes as legitimate harassment.
Voldymort (EUNE)
: >I was only using your own straw-man against you what straw-man? > because leaving is a bannable offense. {{sticker:sg-lux-2}} riot doesn't ban people for leaving games. they just get low priority queued. they aren't banned from playing the game unless they spam leaves left and right for an extended period of time and ignore the repetitive written warnings on the matter >One of the simplest solutions to rank would be make it a requirement that to play a champion in ranked you have to at least have rank 4 on them. being rank x on a champion does not mean that you are actually good with that champion or that you are more likely not to lose your team the game by towerdiving 1v2 over and over. there are quite a bit of people who have a higher mastery score than me in bronze or below but that doesn't mean they actually know what they're doing, else they wouldn't be in that rank to begin with. the {{champion:74}} with the most mastery points in the game (~ 9 milion) and level 400+ is struggling in bronze and has been for the longest span of seasons >you're specifically going off what some random post said without any evidence besides this is how we say it is. except it's not "a random post" it's literally the support's q&a section where they describe how the game works. and it's publicly available for people who can actually be bothered to do some minimalistic research on the topic they are interested in instead of going with "i think this is how it works because i can't think of anything better therefore this **must** be how it works" >Specifically when it comes to reporting people to much devalues your reporting because it could be creating false positives (except there are trolls/inters/greifings in every single ranked game now in high silver low gold) so it's very likely peoples reports are not getting noticed properly. actually they need to update that since it's no longer the case. it used to be that way but now with the ifs's rate of accuracy they disabled that. the addendum was in a patch at some point but i guess they either forgot to add it into that page or hey simply figured that it being the way it is sin't doing much harm since it prevents some people from reporting willie nillie. >And you're also forgetting that specifically bans that are not issued by the bot are only done after a high number of reports come through from players so clearly the number of reports per game is tracked, and does matter. The support singed is a prefect example of this, and more recently the dude that got 500 reports. >https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/jFwTE8Oj-playing-off-meta-in-ranked-int-feeding-ban?show=flat&comment=0039 your statement on number of reports mattering **would be true** "if" you could provide an example of someone getting punished because of that actual number and not because he was actually breaking the rules on the side. what your example demonstrates is that the system can miss out sometimes but that riot is quick to take care of it when they notice the offence being comitted, not that the number of reports matters. to further adress this point, i'd like to remind you that Deathsiege Sion had the same issue as the support singed. however riot disregarded his case because he was doing that particular unorthodox strat to win games. and it usually paid off. support singed was just being a jerk to his team and in particular to his adc by leaving him to 1v2 and then proceding to doing whatever for the rest of the game ignoring his role as "support" >You've been reported 511 times in a little over a MONTH; many of these are by your opponent, not your teammates. For comparison, I have been reported once lifetime on one of my accounts, and 8 lifetime on the other. i also like how you stopped reading at this point and ignored what follows as if it doesn't matter: >You've made a game of trolling, and even admit to it many times. >[7:41] SION ORNN MID (Gragas): do this every game, no consequences. [11:25] [All] SION ORNN MID (Gragas): the automated system will decide. it cant detect this. >You ban your teammates champ picks You pick non-meta champs to tilt teammates You build those non-meta champs as non-meta as possible (ad mages, etc) You intentionally steal farm You intentionally KS You don't go to the lane assigned, and instead go to interfere with others You leave your team when a teamfight breaks out it does
> [{quoted}](name=Voldymort,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wVufIf6y,comment-id=0000000100000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-03-28T08:44:21.825+0000) > being rank x on a champion does not mean that you are actually good with that champion or that you are more likely not to lose your team the game by towerdiving 1v2 over and over. there are quite a bit of people who have a higher mastery score than me in bronze or below but that doesn't mean they actually know what they're doing, else they wouldn't be in that rank to begin with. > > the {{champion:74}} with the most mastery points in the game (~ 9 milion) and level 400+ is struggling in bronze and has been for the longest span of seasons > You just made a fallacy of a red herring btw in this post. You didn't counter my claim all you said that there could be someone with extremely high mastery that doesn't know how to play at a level that their currently not at. That wasn't my claim my claim was that at someones current skill set level the amount of experience they have is likely to effect their level of play at their own level. IE someone that has never played a champion will not have the mechanic skills of said champion compared to someone at their current level that has reasonable invested time into their own champion. IE just because you know how what a pitcher does in baseball if through your entire career you only play catcher if you tired to play pitcher you would be extremely unlikely to stand a chance vs someone who was at your same level and has always played pitcher
Voldymort (EUNE)
: >You have to prove that the number of reports didn't effect the outcome of his case. that's not how it works. it's your job to prove that the claim you made has a foot to stand on. it's not my job to prove that it doesn't. espeically since i showed you what the support website has to say on the topic. > I never state it can get you banned I merely stated it has an effect on the outcome of getting you banned which my post proves. the only thing your post proves is that reports can get your account investigated for wrongdoings, which everyone knows, not that they have any influence over the ban itself. again... if you have an example of someone getting banned just because he got reported alot, either by reports over multiple games or by 9 reports in 1 game with nothing else affecting the decision, please provide it!
> [{quoted}](name=Voldymort,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wVufIf6y,comment-id=00000001000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-28T09:50:49.954+0000) > > that's not how it works. it's your job to prove that the claim you made has a foot to stand on. it's not my job to prove that it doesn't. > > the only thing your post proves is that reports can get your account investigated for wrongdoings, which everyone knows, not that they have any influence over the ban itself. > > again... if you have an example of someone getting banned just because he got reported alot, either by reports over multiple games or by 9 reports > in 1 game with nothing else affecting the decision, please provide it! How do you think the accounts get investigated in the first place without the report system. Clearly if there is no wrong doing then they will overturn the ban. There has specifically been cases of false positives, and riot has oveturned them. Your argument makes no sense. My claim is this that unlike what the riot post on the Q&A forms says the number of reports a player receives does matter, and that is because the automatic system cannot detect complex ways of trolling, and therefore the higher the number of reports the more likely it is for riot to further investigate the problem. In the case of both proxy singed, and this sion the number of reports was one of the reason they investigated, and commented on the case. If the number of reports a player received didn't matter why would they mention it in the first place. Now you have to be able to counter my argument by showing evidence that the number of reports doesn't effect likelihood of them looking into a case despite riots saying otherwise. I'm not sure where this idea about "proving" something came into mainstream idea. In a formal debate you make a claim, and then someone refutes your claim, then you make a counter claim, and so on an so forth till either you agree or reach a stalemate.
Voldymort (EUNE)
: >People were just as equally as "toxic" as i was. it doesn't matter. it's not a contest. toxic is toxic. when was your 25 game chat restriction?
> [{quoted}](name=Voldymort,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wVufIf6y,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-03-28T07:23:43.249+0000) > > it doesn't matter. it's not a contest. toxic is toxic. when was your 25 game chat restriction? This is literally a stfaw-man. "A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent." You made a claim of refuting the point that with a non argument that toxic is just toxic. It's not an argument it's a straw-man. You could have said that contest doesn't matter to riot (which it doesn't), but that's not justice. Considering contest always matters in the real world.
Voldymort (EUNE)
: that's not what the word "strawman" means. please don't use words you don't understand! >straw man noun noun: strawman 1. an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument. please show me where on that line i did any of what a strawman is supposed to be/mean. i'll wait. {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}} >If you wanted to say riot deems that behavior is toxic then it would just be an fallacy of appeal to authority which is pretty much exactly what most defends in the PB resort to. if you break the law irl despite there being laws against it and you get arrested is that also "appeal to authority" because some people don't personally view said crime as "wrong"? the game has rules. the game had every single player agreee to it's ToS when they made their account and specifically stated that breaking said rules will result in a punishment. https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/21/Appeal-to-Authority *"Exception: Be very careful not to confuse "deferring to an authority on the issue" with the appeal to authority fallacy. Remember, a fallacy is an error in reasoning. Dismissing the council of legitimate experts and authorities turns good skepticism into denialism."* which is what you're doing
> [{quoted}](name=Voldymort,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wVufIf6y,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2019-03-28T09:17:11.416+0000) > > that's not what the word "strawman" means. please don't use words you don't understand! > noun > noun: strawman > 1. > an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument. > > please show me where on that line i did any of what a strawman is supposed to be/mean. i'll wait. > > {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}} > > if you break the law irl despite there being laws against it and you get arrested is that also "appeal to authority" because some people don't personally view said crime as "wrong"? > > the game has rules. the game had every single player agreee to it's ToS when they made their account and specifically stated that breaking said rules will result in a punishment. > > https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/21/Appeal-to-Authority > > *"Exception: Be very careful not to confuse "deferring to an authority on the issue" with the appeal to authority fallacy. Remember, a fallacy is an error in reasoning. Dismissing the council of legitimate experts and authorities turns good skepticism into denialism."* > > which is what you're doing You clearly don't understand what appeal to authority has to do with. It means specifically means you're not making an argument about why something is valid or not without justifying it. Specifically just because something is a law doesn't make it just so it's an appeal to authority to claim it's a good practice. Just like saying toxic is just an appeal to the authority of riot believing it's toxic when the entire post is about injecting in the idea their stance is incorrect.
Voldymort (EUNE)
: >The reason they specifically reviewed the sion case was because the number of reports he received in a month. Which means the bot system didn't realize he was trolling because he was going about it in a way. but did they ban him because he got x number of reports? no. therefore your argument is invalid and unless you can provide an example of a ban occuring **purely based on the number of reports and the person doing nothing else wrong**, it remians invalid >Also they will ban you or they least to if you left more then like 3 games in one month they might have cracked down on that behavior. prove it
> [{quoted}](name=Voldymort,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wVufIf6y,comment-id=000000010000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-28T09:19:06.823+0000) > > but did they ban him because he got x number of reports? no. therefore your argument is invalid and unless you can provide an example of a ban occuring **purely based on the number of reports and the person doing nothing else wrong**, it remians invalid > > prove it You have to prove that the number of reports didn't effect the outcome of his case. Except the rioter specifically said it because it was part of the reason, I never state it can get you banned I merely stated it has an effect on the outcome of getting you banned which my post proves.
Voldymort (EUNE)
: >People were just as equally as "toxic" as i was. it doesn't matter. it's not a contest. toxic is toxic. when was your 25 game chat restriction?
> [{quoted}](name=Voldymort,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wVufIf6y,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-03-28T07:23:43.249+0000) > > it doesn't matter. it's not a contest. toxic is toxic. when was your 25 game chat restriction? This is a stawman you don't provide any evidence to justify your claim you just state nothing. Toxic is merely in the eyes of the beholder it's an extremely subjective term. If you wanted to say riot deems that behavior is toxic then it would just be an fallacy of appeal to authority which is pretty much exactly what most defends in the PB resort to.
Voldymort (EUNE)
: >I was only using your own straw-man against you what straw-man? > because leaving is a bannable offense. {{sticker:sg-lux-2}} riot doesn't ban people for leaving games. they just get low priority queued. they aren't banned from playing the game unless they spam leaves left and right for an extended period of time and ignore the repetitive written warnings on the matter >One of the simplest solutions to rank would be make it a requirement that to play a champion in ranked you have to at least have rank 4 on them. being rank x on a champion does not mean that you are actually good with that champion or that you are more likely not to lose your team the game by towerdiving 1v2 over and over. there are quite a bit of people who have a higher mastery score than me in bronze or below but that doesn't mean they actually know what they're doing, else they wouldn't be in that rank to begin with. the {{champion:74}} with the most mastery points in the game (~ 9 milion) and level 400+ is struggling in bronze and has been for the longest span of seasons >you're specifically going off what some random post said without any evidence besides this is how we say it is. except it's not "a random post" it's literally the support's q&a section where they describe how the game works. and it's publicly available for people who can actually be bothered to do some minimalistic research on the topic they are interested in instead of going with "i think this is how it works because i can't think of anything better therefore this **must** be how it works" >Specifically when it comes to reporting people to much devalues your reporting because it could be creating false positives (except there are trolls/inters/greifings in every single ranked game now in high silver low gold) so it's very likely peoples reports are not getting noticed properly. actually they need to update that since it's no longer the case. it used to be that way but now with the ifs's rate of accuracy they disabled that. the addendum was in a patch at some point but i guess they either forgot to add it into that page or hey simply figured that it being the way it is sin't doing much harm since it prevents some people from reporting willie nillie. >And you're also forgetting that specifically bans that are not issued by the bot are only done after a high number of reports come through from players so clearly the number of reports per game is tracked, and does matter. The support singed is a prefect example of this, and more recently the dude that got 500 reports. >https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/jFwTE8Oj-playing-off-meta-in-ranked-int-feeding-ban?show=flat&comment=0039 your statement on number of reports mattering **would be true** "if" you could provide an example of someone getting punished because of that actual number and not because he was actually breaking the rules on the side. what your example demonstrates is that the system can miss out sometimes but that riot is quick to take care of it when they notice the offence being comitted, not that the number of reports matters. to further adress this point, i'd like to remind you that Deathsiege Sion had the same issue as the support singed. however riot disregarded his case because he was doing that particular unorthodox strat to win games. and it usually paid off. support singed was just being a jerk to his team and in particular to his adc by leaving him to 1v2 and then proceding to doing whatever for the rest of the game ignoring his role as "support" >You've been reported 511 times in a little over a MONTH; many of these are by your opponent, not your teammates. For comparison, I have been reported once lifetime on one of my accounts, and 8 lifetime on the other. i also like how you stopped reading at this point and ignored what follows as if it doesn't matter: >You've made a game of trolling, and even admit to it many times. >[7:41] SION ORNN MID (Gragas): do this every game, no consequences. [11:25] [All] SION ORNN MID (Gragas): the automated system will decide. it cant detect this. >You ban your teammates champ picks You pick non-meta champs to tilt teammates You build those non-meta champs as non-meta as possible (ad mages, etc) You intentionally steal farm You intentionally KS You don't go to the lane assigned, and instead go to interfere with others You leave your team when a teamfight breaks out it does
> [{quoted}](name=Voldymort,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wVufIf6y,comment-id=0000000100000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-03-28T08:44:21.825+0000) > > what straw-man? > > {{sticker:sg-lux-2}} > > riot doesn't ban people for leaving games. they just get low priority queued. they aren't banned from playing the game unless they spam leaves left and right for an extended period of time and ignore the repetitive written warnings on the matter > > being rank x on a champion does not mean that you are actually good with that champion or that you are more likely not to lose your team the game by towerdiving 1v2 over and over. there are quite a bit of people who have a higher mastery score than me in bronze or below but that doesn't mean they actually know what they're doing, else they wouldn't be in that rank to begin with. > > the {{champion:74}} with the most mastery points in the game (~ 9 milion) and level 400+ is struggling in bronze and has been for the longest span of seasons > > except it's not "a random post" > > it's literally the support's q&a section where they describe how the game works. > > and it's publicly available for people who can actually be bothered to do some minimalistic research on the topic they are interested in instead of going with "i think this is how it works because i can't think of anything better therefore this **must** be how it works" > > actually they need to update that since it's no longer the case. it used to be that way but now with the ifs's rate of accuracy they disabled that. the addendum was in a patch at some point but i guess they either forgot to add it into that page or hey simply figured that it being the way it is sin't doing much harm since it prevents some people from reporting willie nillie. > > your statement on number of reports mattering **would be true** "if" you could provide an example of someone getting punished because of that actual number and not because he was actually breaking the rules on the side. > > what your example demonstrates is that the system can miss out sometimes but that riot is quick to take care of it when they notice the offence being comitted, not that the number of reports matters. > > to further adress this point, i'd like to remind you that Deathsiege Sion had the same issue as the support singed. however riot disregarded his case because he was doing that particular unorthodox strat to win games. and it usually paid off. support singed was just being a jerk to his team and in particular to his adc by leaving him to 1v2 and then proceding to doing whatever for the rest of the game ignoring his role as "support" > > i also like how you stopped reading at this point and ignored what follows as if it doesn't matter: > [11:25] [All] SION ORNN MID (Gragas): the automated system will decide. it cant detect this. > You pick non-meta champs to tilt teammates > You build those non-meta champs as non-meta as possible (ad mages, etc) > You intentionally steal farm > You intentionally KS > You don't go to the lane assigned, and instead go to interfere with others > You leave your team when a teamfight breaks out > > it does Just because it's on the Q&A doesn't mean it's factually correct it just means that the information that they want to be publicly present, and I provided evidence that the number of reports do matter in cases where the automatic system catches people. The reason they specifically reviewed the sion case was because the number of reports he received in a month. Which means the bot system didn't realize he was trolling because he was going about it in a way. Also they will ban you or they least to if you left more then like 3 games in one month they might have cracked down on that behavior.
: > [{quoted}](name=Terozu,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bH35HKmg,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-03-25T13:07:35.285+0000) > > Why arent you showing the fed character? > > So checking the matchup, there isn't exactly a lot that a blitz and teemo can do vs a nunu and Shen, I'd have to watch the replay to see if they were inting. This might be the goofiest thing I have ever read on the internet. Bravo.
> [{quoted}](name=Leona Helmsley,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bH35HKmg,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2019-03-27T05:17:32.761+0000) > > This might be the goofiest thing I have ever read on the internet. Bravo. They are a part of the people these people honestly believe even after looking at the stats this person was just playing badly. Despite the fact he has no cs only ever bought a starting item, and has zero CS. I just don't understand these people. However, the second they see someone raging in text they will jump down their throat in a second.
Voldymort (EUNE)
: >No one with any sense of how complex systems work actually believes one report is the same as nine. i'm sorry to break it to you but that's how reality works. mob justice is not a thing in league https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752884-Reporting-a-Player ***Things to avoid*** *"Do not ask other players in the match to report the offending player. It only takes one report for our systems to review a game. Additional reports will not do anything for the offending player; however as mentioned above, it could open yourself up to a report of your own; especially if you are derailing the match by constantly demanding reports of other players."*
> [{quoted}](name=Voldymort,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wVufIf6y,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-03-28T07:34:26.470+0000) > > please don't straw man what i said and procede to make a non related analogy on it comparing **a punishment in a video game with real life drama** > > i will once i know the whole story. hence the question > > without the zero tolerance words being used or a previous punishment, this chatlog seems to be in error. is it toxic? sure! is it toxic enough for a ban with no previous punishments? hardly > > i don't think you understand what that phrase means I was only using your own straw-man against you. What is the difference between civil punishment, and being punished in this game? They are both generally based on stripping someone of some sort of investment of some kind. This game is a time, and money investment when people feel that their investment isn't properly taken care of, and they are harassed they naturally get upset it's a normal human emotion. I'm not sure you understand what psychological warfare means then. I'm not sure if you realize but entrapment is considered a form of torture, and that's exactly what riot does to people because leaving is a bannable offense. No other game will ban your account outright if you leave matches. Generally at most they ban you from playing ranked mode specifically for the season. They trap them inside a video game with strangers that can abuse them, and have no recourse they cannot even leave. I'm not sure what you consider trolling, and greifing to be if not psychological warfare. People want justice, and they are not getting it so the trolls are getting worse because it's become a cycle of trolls turn more people into trolls because they feel it's the only way to get back at the community. You have people generating 100's of games trolling their teammates, and riot does nothing about it because they're just bad. One of the simplest solutions to rank would be make it a requirement that to play a champion in ranked you have to at least have rank 4 on them. Sure it would effect trading, and it would effect their sales. The thing everyone seems to forget is riot isn't in the business to make their customers happy or create a fair game model. It is first and foremost to generate as much profit as possible with as little effort as possible they only way things get change is by community outcry. When people are defending inters like those in an urf game of mine who didn't buy a single item, and saying it's just a bad urf game they are part of the problem. Remaining silent in the face of true outrage is something humanity seems to not be able to escape. > [{quoted}](name=Voldymort,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wVufIf6y,comment-id=00000001000000000001,timestamp=2019-03-28T07:37:32.132+0000) > > i'm sorry to break it to you but that's how reality works. mob justice is not a thing in league > > https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752884-Reporting-a-Player > > ***Things to avoid*** > > *"Do not ask other players in the match to report the offending player. It only takes one report for our systems to review a game. Additional reports will not do anything for the offending player; however as mentioned above, it could open yourself up to a report of your own; especially if you are derailing the match by constantly demanding reports of other players."* Expect riot has never released the information how their system works you're specifically going off what some random post said without any evidence besides this is how we say it is. I'm sorry, but that just doesn't fly in the face of any normal reason. Also they have directly contradicted their own statements otherwise. Specifically when it comes to reporting people to much devalues your reporting because it could be creating false positives (except there are trolls/inters/greifings in every single ranked game now in high silver low gold) so it's very likely peoples reports are not getting noticed properly. And you're also forgetting that specifically bans that are not issued by the bot are only done after a high number of reports come through from players so clearly the number of reports per game is tracked, and does matter. The support singed is a prefect example of this, and more recently the dude that got 500 reports. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/jFwTE8Oj-playing-off-meta-in-ranked-int-feeding-ban?show=flat&comment=0039 > [{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=jFwTE8Oj,comment-id=0039,timestamp=2018-04-04T21:48:13.340+0000) > > It's so blatantly obvious that you are trolling. I don't know if you were hoping you'd get banned so you could contest it, or honestly thought you'd slip under the radar. I don't even know what information you're looking for; you 100% know you were trolling. > > Playing off meta is not trolling or griefing. Trolling or griefing is .. trolling or griefing. > > You've been reported 511 times in a little over a MONTH; many of these are by your opponent, not your teammates. For comparison, I have been reported once lifetime on one of my accounts, and 8 lifetime on the other. > > You've made a game of trolling, and even admit to it many times. > > [7:41] SION ORNN MID (Gragas): do this every game, no consequences. > [11:25] [All] SION ORNN MID (Gragas): the automated system will decide. it cant detect this. > > You ban your teammates champ picks > You pick non-meta champs to tilt teammates > You build those non-meta champs as non-meta as possible (ad mages, etc) > You intentionally steal farm > You intentionally KS > You don't go to the lane assigned, and instead go to interfere with others > You leave your team when a teamfight breaks out
Voldymort (EUNE)
: because 1 report has the same value as 2, 3, 4,... 8 or 9 the extra reports don't do anything so if you keep asking for reports it's considered harassment, which is toxic behaviour
> [{quoted}](name=Voldymort,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wVufIf6y,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2019-03-28T07:28:22.162+0000) > > because 1 report has the same value as 2, 3, 4,... 8 or 9 > > the extra reports don't do anything so if you keep asking for reports it's considered harassment, which is toxic behaviour No one with any sense of how complex systems work actually believes one report is the same as nine.
Voldymort (EUNE)
: >People were just as equally as "toxic" as i was. it doesn't matter. it's not a contest. toxic is toxic. when was your 25 game chat restriction?
> [{quoted}](name=Voldymort,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wVufIf6y,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-03-28T07:23:43.249+0000) > > it doesn't matter. it's not a contest. toxic is toxic. when was your 25 game chat restriction? A crime is a crime so that clearly means we should kill everyone that runs a red stop light right? You didn't even make an argument this is why I hate PB. It's a bunch of self righteous people that cannot create a rational reason why the biggest issue in this game isn't toxic speech, but toxic behavior. They will go to extreme lengths to say someone is just bad, and not trolling or greifing, but the second someone shows even a little humanity to psychological warfare it's a rules are rules conversation. Morals be damn lets allow riot to destroy the community from the inside out because it's much easier to catch toxic speech.
Dynikus (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Terozu,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bH35HKmg,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-03-25T22:33:10.109+0000) > > How do you think they got items? Teemo had 4500 gold, blitz had 3900. Blitz had {{item:1056}} meaning he was sitting on 3500 gold Teemo had {{item:1026}} {{item:3136}} {{item:1056}} {{item:2003}} meaning he was sitting on 1700 gold This is like someone buying 6 tears and running it down all game, then having people come to defend them saying it was just a bad game.
> [{quoted}](name=Dynikus,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bH35HKmg,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-25T22:46:57.205+0000) > > Teemo had 4500 gold, blitz had 3900. > Blitz had {{item:1056}} meaning he was sitting on 3500 gold > Teemo had {{item:1026}} {{item:3136}} {{item:1056}} {{item:2003}} meaning he was sitting on 1700 gold > This is like someone buying 6 tears and running it down all game, then having people come to defend them saying it was just a bad game. Because this community defends trolls, and smites down ragers for getting upset because they have no defense for trolls. Because "its just a bad game" these guys sat on 6k gold in urf.
Dynikus (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Hikari Sakata,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bH35HKmg,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-03-25T09:59:32.569+0000) > > I mean , this is urf , most of Deaths coming from doing a Mistake by going to a wrong place with the Canon and you end up getting busted > the only difference is you just played too safe for that , not exactly their fault 0/22/3, 0 items bought, 0 cs 1/19/3, 0 cs 5/24/2, 8 cs in under 10 minutes How on earth are people actually defending this? lol
> [{quoted}](name=Dynikus,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bH35HKmg,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-03-25T10:16:55.951+0000) > > 0/22/3, 0 items bought, 0 cs > 1/19/3, 0 cs > 5/24/2, 8 cs > in under 10 minutes > How on earth are people actually defending this? lol I'm not really sure I want to say the community is almost always forgiving of behavioral issues if they are non verbal everything is maybe their just "bad".
Ahri Baka (EUNE)
: I mean , this is urf , most of Deaths coming from doing a Mistake by going to a wrong place with the Canon and you end up getting bursted the only difference is you just played too safe for that , not exactly their fault
> [{quoted}](name=Hikari Sakata,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bH35HKmg,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-03-25T09:59:32.569+0000) > > I mean , this is urf , most of Deaths coming from doing a Mistake by going to a wrong place with the Canon and you end up getting busted > the only difference is you just played too safe for that , not exactly their fault They were inting the blitz didn't buy a single item, He rushed in and just died over and over.
Voldymort (EUNE)
: afk farming is not ok either btw
> [{quoted}](name=Voldymort,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bH35HKmg,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-25T09:14:40.515+0000) > > afk farming is not ok either btw What are you supposed to do? Die over, and over to the fed enemy?
: I'm actually more surprised that you only died 4 times in urf as a melee character. But yeah, it's ultra rapid fire, not ultra rapid troll.
> [{quoted}](name=ANearMiss,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bH35HKmg,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-03-25T08:58:19.121+0000) > > I'm actually more surprised that you only died 4 times in urf as a melee character. But yeah, it's ultra rapid fire, not ultra rapid troll. I was with Heimer in lane, and as we realized what they were doing and after they refused to surrender I just tired to play safe and farm.
Rioter Comments
mack9112 (NA)
: But you react to the bully is showing to them that they have power over you. A good example is that many moons ago I had a trolly jungler who came to my lane and started taking my cs . Obviously he wanted a repsonse from me and I didn't give it to him instead just stopped moving and waiting for him to leave which he did and I told my fellow laners to do the same thing. The game went smoothly I submitted a ticket at the end of the game a punishment was handed out.
> [{quoted}](name=mack9112,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=cuBRJ0Aq,comment-id=000200010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-22T22:43:36.640+0000) > > But you react to the bully is showing to them that they have power over you. > > A good example is that many moons ago I had a trolly jungler who came to my lane and started taking my cs . Obviously he wanted a repsonse from me and I didn't give it to him instead just stopped moving and waiting for him to leave which he did and I told my fellow laners to do the same thing. The game went smoothly I submitted a ticket at the end of the game a punishment was handed out. Also you don't ignore bullies you face them. Decades of research back this up. Ignoring them just lets them continue to abuse, and get what they want. What people are failing to see is there are truly malicious people in this world that love to inflict harm on others. It might work in one game, but they get enough reactions to constitute their behavior because most people react like human beings when responding to threats against their minds.
rujitra (NA)
: Toxicity
I'm calling intellectually dishonesty on so many levels. You're not taking the situation of environment into account. You're entirely ignoring key facts about the game that are divisive. First if you know anything about psychology you would know trapping an animal in an environment they find threatening causes extremely severe reactions. For instance league traps you inside a game that if people are intentionally trying to harm you psychologically you have no ability to get away from, and you cannot defend yourself for fear of the larger power extremely harshly punishing you without caring about punishing the first cause or caring about resolving the main problem those that prey on others. The reason this game is toxic, and most games are toxic is because there is no social contract.
: I feel like I have no agency over the games anymore.
I've been saying this since the implemented auto fill. It makes for a horrible experience especially when auto fill almost always is support, and in a meta if your bot lane loses you lose the game it's very important both players in bot lane are mains, and not fills. This is also compounded by the fact mistakes lead to huge advantages even the simple mistakes you don't make if you're playing safe will cost you the game. Honestly, I think I'm just done with League. I really wanted to keep playing, but it feels like wack'a'mole. OP.GG entire team is anyone in autofill or doesn't play their current role { if it's your support or adc 100% dodge} {if it's not your support or adc check to see if they have any games played on the champion they picked if not dodge} { does their main champion in their current picked have a significant negative win ratio below 46% if yes do they have more then 10 games played on said champion if yes dodge} {Did anyone hard counter themselves if so very likely dodge} { Is your adc playing a bot tier adc very likely dodge unless they have a good win ratio on them} { Is your team full AP or full AD if so dodge} { Does your team have no hard CC or no CC to counter specific champions like knocks for Kat if so dodge} { Was anyone remotely toxic during pick/ban then dodge} { Does your comp get countered by their comp IE Kog without heavy CC and D into a dive team if so dodge} { Does your comp have little to no synergy with each other if so likely dodge} {If there was someone trolling or threatening to troll or acting like a troll dodge} { Does anyone on your team have a significant loss ratio or significant losing streak if so dodge} { If for any reason at all you just don't feel comfortable with your current team setup dodge} Only after going through all that do I honestly feel like I might get a decently good game, but the biggest issue right now for me is autofill in general, but specifically autofill adc/support. The other big issue I seeming is people switching mains. Because ADC is strong alot of people are switching to ADC and they cannot play ADC at the same level as their mains so they have no impact.
: Is my only solution to look up bot lanes and dodge weak players?
One more thing Gold isn't low elo......you're in the 20% percentile if you're in gold. Anything below Silver 4 is "low" because you're on the other side of the bell curve.
: OP.GG me, this is the first season I actually decided to climb. And I am making pretty easy progress, my MMR is way higher after massive win streaks. Carry most of my games. But no, its cause I play quite a fair amount. And I dont think rank is actually a way to determine skill level accurately, otherwise you wouldn't have smurfs pub stomping low elo. Anyways. You being gold, still makes you low elo. If anyone should be pitied its you. I can see you are making an attempt, but just about every single game I see.... you get... carried while you feed.... 0/8/6 0/3/6 7/4/5 Not half bad here you do mediocre with nasus for a few games THEEEEENNNN 6/8/8 0/6/5 I can see you try to abuse freelo champs. Im guessing you dont really play those champs regularly BEFORE they get their buffs. So before you go and try to trash on me or ANYONE ELSE just cause my rank has BRONZE in it, work on your own play before you end up right next to me.
> [{quoted}](name=SymbolicFear,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZxPHAFpv,comment-id=00000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-30T07:36:48.285+0000) > > OP.GG me, this is the first season I actually decided to climb. And I am making pretty easy progress, my MMR is way higher after massive win streaks. Carry most of my games. But no, its cause I play quite a fair amount. And I dont think rank is actually a way to determine skill level accurately, otherwise you wouldn't have smurfs pub stomping low elo. Anyways. You being gold, still makes you low elo. If anyone should be pitied its you. I can see you are making an attempt, but just about every single game I see.... you get... carried while you feed.... > > > 0/8/6 > 0/3/6 > 7/4/5 Not half bad here you do mediocre with nasus for a few games THEEEEENNNN > 6/8/8 > 0/6/5 > > I can see you try to abuse freelo champs. Im guessing you dont really play those champs regularly BEFORE they get their buffs. So before you go and try to trash on me or ANYONE ELSE just cause my rank has BRONZE in it, work on your own play before you end up right next to me. I think it's funny you're going through my losses without looking at what even happened in the first place to make my kda that bad. It's the first sign you have no credibility to me. 0/8/6 Was a shen game (I never play shen got put into support brand was my main but it got banned stop playing support this season because of the toxic nature that adc's have become) And I wasn't even the main reason we lost this game. Our riven went 1/9. She died twice in her lane solo no jungler pressure, then proceeded to afk in the jungle, then feed, then afk'ed again. 0/3/6 Was the Zac game I played with the first time Azir jungle main going mid I should have instantly dodged that game, and then we had a Luc adc another reason I should have dodged. Because we had no damage it was going to be impossible to carry Azir once the other team go any damage. 7/4/5 Nasus game my Trist had 15k damage in a 35 min game. I don't even have to say anything else. That's horrible in the current meta you cannot carry that. 6/8/8 I had a 4/12 Riven refusing to do anything but walk back into lane and die over and over. 0/6/5 Was the Nunu game where I think I got all 5 of the drakes, and my Cait had 4k damage in a 25 min game how is the even possible? Every single one of those games was pretty much unwinnable in my book. Yes I could have done more sure, but I don't think I was going to be able to overcome the deficit having those teammates on my team caused. This is why looking at KDA alone is not a good idea unless you actually look at what happened in the games. Carried while I feed? Are you serious right now? If you look unless it's a Nasus or a Singed game all my wins I have a positive KDA. and yes I might not have a positive KDA on losses, but with the current state of the game teams can easily kill you if your team is even a little behind. IE I got to D a tower after my laner died for x number of times, and end up getting dove and die. Go to ward objectives because we have no vision and their team is there and I die. If you want to look at losses that might have significantly been my fault you could say my last Kayne, and WW games could be somewhat it. Even then there was some major issues with both those games on my own team. The Kayne game I was actually doing very well till mid game came, and my Cait decided to be toxic to the entire team. Then proceeded to afk bot lane because she didn't get enough ganks bot lane vs a Vayne TK with Cait Raka there was almost zero chance of us ever being able to kill that lane. This wasn't even considering the fact that their team had a TF roaming his balls off bot lane while our mid laner did nothing. 10k damage on Cait in a 30 min game where she only did that maybe during two fights mid game. The WW game I missed 3 ults, but I honestly don't think that would have made much of a difference. Our support went like 0/8 come to find out he was a fill jungle main and had never played Taric before, and a Cait who did 7k damage in a 25 min game on cait. Garen had the wrong runes, and Cait was toxic to the entire team all game. I seriously need to just dodge Cait from now on shes a bot tier adc, and the only people playing bot tier adcs are die hards or idiots. And my most recent loss was entirely out of my control. Before 5 mins my jungler, and mid had given Brand 3 kills. I would like to point out everyone in that game was low plat MMR, and this Ahri was a jungle main who decided to change mains this season apparently with a 34% win ratio that's an entirely different issue. My jungler I think went 1/9, and mid 0/4. We also had a fill player playing varus adc with his less then 20% win ratio on varus. My jungle was tilted off the face of the earth, and kept going mid to try and do something just digging his hole. By 10 mins that game was done and buried. So I'm sorry if it's to hard to understand for you, but I don't think I should have to spoon feed my team just to get a win. 1/10 times when I win or lose there is almost nothing I did that changed the outcome significantly. The only time I am is when I intentionally play off the wall champions because someone is trolling, and I didn't feel like dodging so I trolled with them. There is nothing fun about that for me. I want to feel challenged not like whoever has the worst player just flat out loses. I cannot take you seriously because you don't play ranked even to 1/4th the amount I do because it's clear you don't care enough to do it. Side note anyone that believes you can still "carry" games in this game out of touch with reality. Unless you're of significant difference in player skill no one is going to consistently be a significant impact to their team. Sure if you're Diamond in a Bronze game, but not is you're a Silver 2 player in a Silver 5 game.
Hibeki (NA)
: Really? Thats why their actions show that they are losing profit? Reducing amoutns of free rewards because their profits are lower Making only skins for popular champions because their profits are lower Having the balance of a champion be completely ignored when they have a new skin soon because their profits are lower Them doubling the amount of skins in 2017 year than 2016 year, because their profits are lower.
> [{quoted}](name=Hibeki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qgnoUNrv,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-01-24T21:51:27.972+0000) > > Really? Thats why their actions show that they are losing profit? > > Reducing amoutns of free rewards because their profits are lower > > Making only skins for popular champions because their profits are lower > > Having the balance of a champion be completely ignored when they have a new skin soon because their profits are lower > > Them doubling the amount of skins in 2017 year than 2016 year, because their profits are lower. The issue is more companies don't like profits staying the same that's the issue with capitalism they always want more. Also Overwatch took a huge percentage of the population.
: The thing is, your rank, literally means nothing, its worthless. The point at which ranked actually tells your skill level is Diamond. From Bronze to Platinum its really nothing at all. Gold players still have a lot of fundamental issues and such that prevent them going further. The thing is most gold players consider themselves to be "good" when in actuality being gold just means you are fairly close to average at the game. Its a "Meh" rating. Every player, even in diamond and up TO challenger, all have their reasons and faults that they can't keep climbing. And yeah, sometimes you can blame your team. But the amount of times where its a valid excuse is way too low to actually keep you from climbing.
> [{quoted}](name=SymbolicFear,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZxPHAFpv,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2018-01-22T07:45:03.047+0000) > > The thing is, your rank, literally means nothing, its worthless. The point at which ranked actually tells your skill level is Diamond. From Bronze to Platinum its really nothing at all. Gold players still have a lot of fundamental issues and such that prevent them going further. > > The thing is most gold players consider themselves to be "good" when in actuality being gold just means you are fairly close to average at the game. Its a "Meh" rating. > > Every player, even in diamond and up TO challenger, all have their reasons and faults that they can't keep climbing. And yeah, sometimes you can blame your team. But the amount of times where its a valid excuse is way too low to actually keep you from climbing. I'm not sure if you're trolling or not but you couldn't be further from the truth lol. After looking at your account I'm honestly not sure either. Bronze 4. It's not about it being impossible to overcome the bad odds it's the fact it's entirely unreasonable and time consuming. What you're failing to grasp is the math of going up in ranking is more of just playing enough games to level your rank slowly. It's one thing if you're of significant skill level difference to those you're playing with. IE a Diamond player is going to be able to stomp in Bronze, but say a player that's skill level is say plat 4 but whos current MMR has them at Gold 2 it's going to take a while for them to rise because the difference between themselves, and their opponents is not going to as easily overcome bad odds. I feel like you're one of those guys that tells themselves that bronze-plat are all the same because it makes you feel better when in reality ranked is a determiner of not only individual skill, but individual perseverance, and investment. I guess you wouldn't understand that seeing as you haven't invested any real time or effort into ranked play. Nor is your normal MMR above bronze. We could get into a debate about if people in x rank are really actually good but why? It's the same as people that say anything below challenger is trash. Diamond players make up what 1.5% of the playerbase? Do you understand how small that is? If you would compare that IQs where the average is 100 it would mean only people above 130 IQ. If you think that's insignificant I feel pity for you.
: "Just learn to play from behind" *Draven runs it down mid*
> [{quoted}](name=Dankest Khan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZxPHAFpv,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-01-22T04:11:09.288+0000) > > "Just learn to play from behind" > > *Draven runs it down mid* MF, but you know it's all the same.
: How about learning to play from behind, learn your fundamental skills before even bothering with ranked.
> [{quoted}](name=SymbolicFear,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZxPHAFpv,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-01-22T04:08:48.033+0000) > > How about learning to play from behind, learn your fundamental skills before even bothering with ranked. I'm past the point of fundamentals lol. I'm not a master, but I've been Gold since Season 4. Just got my main perma in Season 6.
Rioter Comments
Chermorg (NA)
: I strongly agree with what you're saying here. I think the biggest issue for me is that we do also want people to have a place to voice their legitimate concerns - as someone always told me "It's okay for others to be wrong". If they think that the punishment system is absolute shit? They can post that, and if they want to tell people "you're not getting unbanned because it's shit", that may be very wrong but it's not against the rules. We can not and should not stifle one side of a discussion simply because they're wrong - that's what we use upvotes/downvotes for is to get the good answers to the top of discussion view. That being said, there are comments that are borderline that appear. Things like "you deserve the ban" without much context, etc. Those types of comments are also wrong in my opinion as they do not provide any information to the OP about why the punishment occurred or how to contest it/avoid it in the future. However, the comments themselves are merely expressing an opinion - and as I said we should not try and censor peoples' opinions. I've been thinking about ways to encourage players to post more constructively here, and with some new additions to the moderation team coming in the next weeks I think we may be able to make progress on this type of post that is nonconstructive and low effort. The issue is that the problem is widespread and constant and I did not want to try and begin managing it until I thought we had the manpower to handle the posts - if you have a hole in a dam and you patch half the hole but leave the other half open, there's still a hole in the dam. Basically, I didn't want us to get behind on this type of thing and then have people wondering where the line was. I would like us to draw a clear line and moderate this type of low effort spam around it - but to do that requires us to discuss a little more some specifics. I can't promise any changes will be made that are visible to everyone - it may just be slightly stricter moderation, or something else - but I can promise you that we are talking about things like this and are constantly looking for ways to improve the boards :)
> [{quoted}](name=Chermorg,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=H3I5rYYi,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-12-12T19:33:00.899+0000) > > I strongly agree with what you're saying here. I think the biggest issue for me is that we do also want people to have a place to voice their legitimate concerns - as someone always told me "It's okay for others to be wrong". If they think that the punishment system is absolute shit? They can post that, and if they want to tell people "you're not getting unbanned because it's shit", that may be very wrong but it's not against the rules. We can not and should not stifle one side of a discussion simply because they're wrong - that's what we use upvotes/downvotes for is to get the good answers to the top of discussion view. > > That being said, there are comments that are borderline that appear. Things like "you deserve the ban" without much context, etc. Those types of comments are also wrong in my opinion as they do not provide any information to the OP about why the punishment occurred or how to contest it/avoid it in the future. However, the comments themselves are merely expressing an opinion - and as I said we should not try and censor peoples' opinions. I've been thinking about ways to encourage players to post more constructively here, and with some new additions to the moderation team coming in the next weeks I think we may be able to make progress on this type of post that is nonconstructive and low effort. The issue is that the problem is widespread and constant and I did not want to try and begin managing it until I thought we had the manpower to handle the posts - if you have a hole in a dam and you patch half the hole but leave the other half open, there's still a hole in the dam. > > Basically, I didn't want us to get behind on this type of thing and then have people wondering where the line was. I would like us to draw a clear line and moderate this type of low effort spam around it - but to do that requires us to discuss a little more some specifics. I can't promise any changes will be made that are visible to everyone - it may just be slightly stricter moderation, or something else - but I can promise you that we are talking about things like this and are constantly looking for ways to improve the boards :) Separate ranked from non ranked I would be willing to wager that would shift a lot of this very casual mindset. Make it require you having to have played like IDK 20+ ranked games to actually chat in the ranked player behavior section. The people that don't play ranked vs those that do are entirely different player bases. If you ask me I think they need to have two separate report systems working for ranked and non ranked.
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Shacobroyo

Level 122 (NA)
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