: You're right that Lux is not an active protagonist, but I think that's the point. She's a girl hiding her identity from her controlling family (i.e. Garen) and being manipulated by a person she trusts. Her whole deal is to slip between the cracks unnoticed, so of course she's not the primary agent of any event so far. There're a couple possibilities: 1) It's Lux's story just because it's told from her perspective. Or 2) By the end, she'll likely do something to influence the Demacian society with regard to at least her own magic, rather than continuing to concede her agency to others. Basically, she'll come out as a mage. I think that's more likely, and that's character growth that justifies the story being about her.
I understand that she's currently hiding, and I don't think she has to be driving the plot at this point to have presence. With how it's been written/illustrated the focus is often more on how Sylas is manipulating her or what Garen is doing rather than Lux's steps toward her growth. There's also the fact that although we're learning new things about Sylas, Garen et al we haven't really learned anything new about Lux, leaving us in a state of simply waiting for her to catch up with her current lore. The comics shift perspective throughout between Lux, Sylas, and Garen, and is hardly reason enough to call it her story/comic imo considering Riot has previously used other's perspectives to tell us about a champion, most recently Malphite. As far as we know Kahina and some Illuminators are ultimately the only ones that will learn Lux is a mage since she actively hides her magic from Garen, the Dauntless Vanguard, and townspeople in "[For Demacia](https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/story/for-demacia/)", so it's fairly safe to say she will remain in the closet. I think it's more likely that this series ends up being "How She Met Kahina" and that would justify calling it Lux's story, but time will tell. Having said that, periods between releases could also be playing a factor. Reading it as a Sylas comic so far is intriguing, but reading it as a Lux comic feels like I've been waiting over 2 months for something interesting to happen. Perhaps reading the series back to back once they're all released will feel different, but it's something to consider in terms of pacing, if not for this then for the future.
Rioter Comments
: Patch 9.14: Fallout 76 Edition
Is this only on SR or on all maps? I haven't played yet so I was wondering if it's worth logging on today =X
: 9.14: Lore Update
I already said this elsewhere, but while the comic itself is good, I don't think it's a good "Lux comic" if that makes sense. Lux feels less like the protagonist of the story and more a foil for Sylas and/or Garen, who have a lot more interesting things going on imo that overshadow her. She might be in the boat, but Sylas and Garen are the ones steering it. I acknowledge that we still have 2 more issues coming, but so far it feels like a Sylas comic trying to be sold as a Lux comic, which is a disservice to both champions.
: I honestly do not believe that TFT is ready for a Ranked Queue in its current state.
It doesn't make sense to me to introduce a new ranked queue when half the season is already over. They should wait until preseason to bring it in. This would give them time to give us all the information we need in a clear format, make changes, and give it its own ranked rewards.
GreenLore (EUW)
: Well in general this comic is basically the comic-version of {{champion:517}}s backstory, so it makes sense that he gets the most focus and development in this comic.
Then why didn't they just make it a Sylas comic?
GreenLore (EUW)
: I think they'll save that for later. Her shielding people with her powers and realizing that her powers can be used for good, sounds like something that would happen at the climax of a story arc, not at the half-way point.
That's fair. I just want them to give me a reason to root for Lux, because while I understand they're writing her as still developing, I'm dying for a reason to take interest in her. While the comic itself is good, I don't think it's a good "Lux comic" if that makes sense. She feels less like the protagonist of the story and more a foil for Sylas and/or Garen, who have a lot more interesting things going on imo that overshadow her. She might be in the boat, but Sylas and Garen are the ones steering it.
Sadalsa (EUW)
: You must hover your grade after the game ends for it to show on your match history
I don't think that's how it works because I always hover my grade in post game but it's still not visible on a good chunk of my match history.
: > [{quoted}](name=ShadowGlaive213,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=xcrR2bEH,comment-id=000e00000000,timestamp=2019-07-10T23:56:01.820+0000) > > I was more thinking more that this would be a point where they could've brought in the shielding aspect of her kit, since Riot has been integrating more and more gameplay into lore or vice versa. I think greenlore realizes that, he just means that she does not have the precise control required to shield people sorry if you simply meant this would've been a good point to have her do that, not "she should of been able to"
Well they specifically mentioned attacking Sylas, and I already acknowledged in my original comment that she may not be able to. But yeah, I meant it would've been a good opportunity to integrate that aspect of gameplay while giving her some real agency that I feel she's been lacking in the series thus far.
: > [{quoted}](name=fifek900,realm=EUNE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=xcrR2bEH,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-10T20:58:38.986+0000) > > i bet 100$ on most people in Demacia being illiterate. On top of that many of people who can read may not actually have access to these papers. has this argument happened before lol
Yeah I made a [thread](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/0fk4pLvF-what-if-journal-of-justice-was-a-demacian-newspaper) about possibly integrating the old JoJ into the new lore as an easter egg, which literacy was brought up in the discussion. Basically unless a Red confirms or denies the literacy of Demacia we're all just guessing.
GreenLore (EUW)
: At this point she has barely any experience in using her powers in combat, so if she had used her powers she would have likely killed people herself by accident and would have made the situation worse. Not to mention that Sylas still uses Petricite shackles, so if Lux attacked Sylas she might accidently charge him up.
I was more thinking more that this would be a point where they could've brought in the shielding aspect of her kit, since Riot has been integrating more and more gameplay into lore or vice versa.
: [Spoilers] Lux: Issue Nr. 3 - Feedback, Discussion and Questions
I was disappointed. I thought if there was a time for Lux to really shine in some way it would've been now. Yes, she used her powers to break out, but she didn't think to use her powers to protect all those people, or at least to protect Garen if Riot didn't want her mage-ness to be exposed yet since supposedly no one else survived the riot. Instead all she can think to do is throw her body in front of people and beg? If she doesn't know how to use her powers to protect yet, hopefully that'll be in the next issue, if not the one after. It's just strange to me that this issue places us almost where we are currently in lore but Lux is so vastly behind in terms of development.
SpectreF4 (EUNE)
: Arclight Thresh(old concept)
I remember this. I believe [this](http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4429636) was the original thread by Relogged. Considering Thresh is a darker character already I thought a light concept would diversify his skin pool but we've gotten Dark Star, Blood Moon, and High Noon instead. While they are well executed, I really hope Thresh's next skin is Arclight, or some form of it, that or Dog Walker Thresh. These ideas have been around for at least 5 years and haven't been made yet, but Riot did eventually deliver Dragon Master Swain so the possibility is still there.
: Third? Cant hover over anyone. Happened after a game of TFT. Restarted client and still cant see anyone's stuff
I don't think it's related to playing TFT. I haven't played any TFT and still have this problem. Just started yesterday (Saturday) for me.
: > [{quoted}](name=ShadowGlaive213,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=0fk4pLvF,comment-id=000000020001,timestamp=2019-06-27T17:50:18.050+0000) > > The first printed book was around the late 800s if I'm not mistaken, so it's not out of the question that they'd have the technology to print. There's also the fact that Sylas knows how to read, though it isn't clear if he knew how to read before he turned himself in or if the mageseekers found some reason to teach him. So while it's possible, I haven't seen anything to confirm or deny. important to note that even if he was taught by the seekers, Sylas was from a poor household. so he doesnt speak for the average demacian in those terms
I'm actually of the opinion that he already knew how to read before he turned himself in, since the seekers don't really have a practical reason to teach him. If even poor households were literate, odds are average Demacians would too. It doesn't really make sense for the middle class to not have access to literature while the poor do. But again, there's nothing confirming when exactly he learned to read as far as I'm aware.
: Ahh but the first mass-producible moveable typesets was 1439. The earliest printed books were made by carving out each individual page and then printing them out. Which drastically increases the time and decreases the number of books you can have ready to print (since each page takes up space). Then it took about 100 years for the technology to spread throughout the major trading points of the world. Then from this point the spread of ideas then becomes vastly easier which allows scientist to communicate easier leading to an industrial revolution and an increase in free time for the middle class, etc. I'm leaving out some steps for brevity.
I understand the need for moveable typesets, and the first was in the 1000s, but does it need to be mass producible?
: Got your cause and effect off. Nobility don’t have the numbers to police individual educations with any real effectiveness (though some have tried). The real barrier is technology. Demacian tech seems pretty backwards compared to their neighbors. If they don’t have a means of mass producing learning material then reading can’t spread outside the wealthy elite.
The first printed book was around the late 800s if I'm not mistaken, so it's not out of the question that they'd have the technology to print. There's also the fact that Sylas knows how to read, though it isn't clear if he knew how to read before he turned himself in or if the mageseekers found some reason to teach him. So while it's possible, I haven't seen anything to confirm or deny.
: > [{quoted}](name=ShadowGlaive213,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=0fk4pLvF,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-27T05:50:56.901+0000) > > Why would he need those things though? The impression that I get from his lore, story, and the comics is that mages emit a glow that Sylas can see and he simply walks around with his handlers pointing them toward mages. I admit I have not followed a lot of Sylas lore. I would only assume that, as an educated person who would be in charge of Sylas (say I was his main warden) I know I would not want to walk around with a man who was little more then a beast. It would be a heat score (mages would see the spazzy sylas or dullard sylas walk about and dip real quick) as well as presenting a fair bit of issues for worst case scinarios- Sylas gets lost, KNOWS that he has to go somewhere but cant read so cant navigate). I would make sure that he would have the basic skill of reading and writing. HOWEVER *I* as warden would make it minimal. Its been shown that his charisma is decent, so others getting him more and more, there would be the issue.
"little more then a beast"? He was a perfectly normal person who happened to be a mage, and if they thought he was just a beast they wouldn't bother trying to teach him something like reading, something that as far as we know only people are capable of. As far as getting lost goes people have navigated via landmarks and asking for directions long before writing was a thing, and it's because they don't want him talking to anyone that they wouldn't leave him alone to get lost in the first place. He was forbidden to associate with anyone outside of his handlers, and you can't really enforce that if you let him wander around on his own. I recommend really reading the lore before assuming so much so you can arrive at a more informed opinion.
: > [{quoted}](name=ShadowGlaive213,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=0fk4pLvF,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-27T03:48:33.310+0000) > > Sylas was of a poor Demacian family before turning himself over to the mageseekers. We know he is literate because he learned how petricite works from the books he had Lux bring him. Since his handlers only needed him to detect mages I see little reason for them to have taught him, which leads me to believe he knew how to read before turning himself in. That's just what I think though, it's possible they still could've taught him. Interesting take. I would think that, a basic education for the mageseekers to train Sylas would be needed. Things like, measurments and descriptive words if he was used like a psycic, or some sort of education as to what magic is ect. ANd the basis of any acedemic education is reading and writing, and they would have taught him such. My .02
Why would he need those things though? The impression that I get from his lore, story, and the comics is that mages emit a glow that Sylas can see and he simply walks around with his handlers pointing them toward mages.
: > [{quoted}](name=TheMan292,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=0fk4pLvF,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-26T19:36:28.301+0000) > > ? > > almost all the champs from the game arent commoners dude. Noxus, demacia, piltover, Ionia etc. we cant just assume Demacia is this bad place especially when it's considered overall good in universe. ESPECIALLY when the logic is "they're all royals" when of course the game called league of legends is about LEGENDS What DEMACIAN champ is a commoner? Even Lucian and Xin are nobles.
Sylas was of a poor Demacian family before turning himself over to the mageseekers. We know he is literate because he learned how petricite works from the books he had Lux bring him. Since his handlers only needed him to detect mages I see little reason for them to have taught him, which leads me to believe he knew how to read before turning himself in. That's just what I think though, it's possible they still could've taught him.
: Demacia is an inclusive society meaning they wouldn't report on world news like journalists in a center of commerce like Pilover would
I wasn't thinking it'd be on world news like it was originally, but adapted to be more local.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=KnightsKemplar,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=8rLQB9pJ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-06-24T00:35:21.328+0000) > > Most popular streamers have plenty of smurfs, from what I can tell. > > The only player I'm aware of that ever had a ban on *them, personally,* was Tyler1. And that was lifted. One banned account is hardly going to stop streamers from streaming. XJ9 was the first player to have an indefinite ban (though I'm personally against the permabanning system; 1 year ban, 5 year ban, etc. sounds good so they can really sit down and think about their actions, but permanently losing everything you've spent hours and hundreds of dollars on is kinda overboard imo). Jensen was also indefinitely banned, but that was lifted. Dopa and Abusagr also have indefinite bans, and I believe Riot is looking into Tarzaned.
> [{quoted}](name=Catffeine,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=8rLQB9pJ,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-06-24T09:07:24.445+0000) > > XJ9 was the first player to have an indefinite ban (though I'm personally against the permabanning system; 1 year ban, 5 year ban, etc. sounds good so they can really sit down and think about their actions, but permanently losing everything you've spent hours and hundreds of dollars on is kinda overboard imo). > > Jensen was also indefinitely banned, but that was lifted. > > Dopa and Abusagr also have indefinite bans, and I believe Riot is looking into Tarzaned. Didn't XJ9 also eventually get his ban lifted? And I thought IWillDominate was the first permaban. I feel like a lot of people forget about him, but he too eventually had his ban lifted. While I'm not against permanent bans because the rules are laid out and you have to be a severe repeat offender to receive one, "permanent bans" don't appear to be so permanent seeing how so many have been lifted. This could be famous player privilege, but Riot has also previously held test projects that gave permabanned players an opportunity to redeem themselves.
Sukishoo (NA)
: Prestige Caitlyn Splash updated!
I wonder what happened to the reference photos Riot [claimed](https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2017/03/making-a-splash-with-reference-photos/) to use a couple years ago to make their splash arts. If they stopped then they should really go back to that, and if they haven't I'd really love to see the reference photo for this splash.
CytheGuy (NA)
: An analysis of the NB3 vs Nubrac situtation (off-meta Teemo pick)
While I can't say anything about the win rate of the strat, I feel like a lot of people are ignoring some of the picture, at least for the particular game in question. While Teemo _is_ exp sharing with Irelia, Sivir is also gaining an exp advantage in bot lane. While Sivir can't shut down Sona and Taric alone, Teemo is helping Irelia shut down TF. You can argue about which is more important, but while they lose in one area they are gaining in another.
Terozu (NA)
: She's isolated into high society and as a mage. Being part of a social group or humanitarian group doesn't automatically unisolate you, that's not how that works.
No it doesn't, but doing such work like in [Last Light](https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/story/lux-color-story/) allows her to connect with people and grow emotionally. No, she's not one with the people or anything like that, but she's not completely isolated either.
Terozu (NA)
: Maturity is not the same as wisdom and knowledge. Plenty of intelligent people can be emotionally immature. Her isolated nature would actually exacerbate it.
She isn't isolated though because of her work with the Illuminators.
Terozu (NA)
: 19 is still a kid. Trust me, I'm 19. I'm not a mature adult, I'm an impulsive idiot.
She also receives the best education and has been [helping run her family estates](https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/story/champion/lux/) since she was a young child.
Terozu (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Shiny Gorochu,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=7XFwdI5A,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-06-12T16:01:30.571+0000) > > I found it interesting to read. > > My one complaint is how Lux simply being a bit to naive and that last shot of her blushing. > > Like seriously girl {{champion:99}} what do you see in this {{champion:517}} . Like seriously He's the first person she's ever opened up to about her darkest secret and he's helping her as far as she knows. She's a kid, let her be a kid. She'll hate him soon enough.
She's not a kid, [she's 19](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/AsE2ETod-spoilers-lux-issue-nr-1-feedback-discussion-and-questions?comment=0010).
Falrein (EUW)
: LUX CALLED MY GIRL A SPOOKY OLD WITCH. I am mad at her. Great issue, don't have much to say really. Well, actually... I am not a Lux fan, so I don't really care, but I'd like to know what a Lux fan would think about that issue. Lux is depicted as incredibly naive and, not that it's a bad thing, but I'd feel annoyed if a comic series about one of my favourite champion was just them being manipulated Of course the seried is not over so hopefully we'll see growth in Lux. I'm just wondering about that really, and hopefully Lux will grow and won't spend the series being manipulated or overly naive. That's all for me! Great issue really. I just want - no, I NEED this Marvel collaboration to continue. There's so much they can do with comics, plus... Well, who wouldn't want to see their faves in a comic? :p
I'm a Lux fan but I can really only speak for myself. I hate it tbh. This level of naivety doesn't fit her background imo. Because of her status, she should've been educated in the politics surrounding her position and therefore aware of predatory behavior. While part of Lux is that she's optimistic and younger than most champs, she's not a kid and this is more like the blind optimism of a 14 year old. Moreover, Taliyah already covered the young-innocent-naive-girl-who-trusted-the-wrong-people thing in [her lore](https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/story/champion/taliyah/), and I don't think we need more stories about young women being lured in by manipulative men. The whole arranged marriage trope is really old and overused with female characters so not a fan. Unlike her stories, all the changes to Lux's lore in general ever since Sylas was introduced just highlight her insecurities and paint her into a victim, not a hero/champion. Yeah the series isn't done yet, but I'm not holding my breath.
: I'd care to remind that Talon, LB, and Kassadin had their Silence removed because along with their kit and burst, it didn't let their opponents fight back. All of those, for the record, were also click and point. Ekko, as much as he's *loved* by the community, already shows that Riot isn't afraid of handing out harder CC to assassins, even though he's more skirmisher early game, if it's equally allowing of fighting back. With Qiyana, you simply need to be fully aware of where you're fighting her. The river is where she gets most of her CC, her root and freeze on her ult, and land is where her ult does that exploding thing. It's all and good to not forget the past, but that requires looking at every aspect, like how to fight back against being silenced, when the silence is click and point.
Valid point. If I'm not mistaken though, Ekko has a short window where he can actually proc his CC and it's pretty well telegraphed. With Qiyana, however, the river is where most of the large team fights happen because of Dragon and Baron, and therefore can't really be avoided. Her ult is a straightforward, decently sized AoE skillshot, which means she can pretty easily CC multiple people at the most critical points of a game, the first part of which isn't affected by tenacity. This is tank level CC and has no business being on an assassin imo, but ultimately I guess time will tell. EDIT: Another thing players have going for them against Ekko is that you can build {{item:3111}} and benefit from the MR and the Tenacity, which isn't true against Qiyana because she is AD.
: I had to re-read her abilities to grasp them..... Kinda weird that her w is there almost entirely as a q buff/reset (that is also a mobility and buff ability with move speed built in)..... Yeah that sounds overloaded as shit..... She sounds like an absolute nightmare to balance because she gets two ccs, move speed and two mobility abilities....
She really shouldn't have the displacement and stun. The reason assassins like Talon, LB, and Kassadin had their Silence removed years ago was because it didn't allow their targets to fight back. This feels like Zoe all over again, where Riot forgot the gameplay lessons they previously learned.
Urgash (EUW)
: How does Qiyana use the river element on ARAM or 3v3 ?
My guess is they'll tweak her like they did Shyvana, just not sure how. Shyvana's passive gives her stats based on dragons slain, but there are none on ARAM or 3s, so instead she gets them from feeding poros and killing Vilemaw.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=MasterLico,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=R5Yd44ZE,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-05-14T16:39:52.244+0000) > > {{item:3158}} {{item:3048}} {{item:3107}} {{item:3222}} {{item:3504}} {{item:3174}} It's too bad Athene's removes Harmony from Mikael's. Interesting build, even if I don't understand the Seraph's choice. Also, you're missing your ward item.
> [{quoted}](name=ChickenWrap,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=R5Yd44ZE,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-05-14T16:48:17.261+0000) > > It's too bad Athene's removes Harmony from Mikael's. Interesting build, even if I don't understand the Seraph's choice. Also, you're missing your ward item. It's their build so I wouldn't say it's "missing", at the end of the day ward item is a choice and it'd be less useful if they're not playing in bot =X As for your build I think you'd be losing some gold efficiency since Luden's and GLP share Haste, and you pass the 40% cdr cap. Regardless, I'll probably go {{item:3020}} {{item:3504}} {{item:3107}} {{item:3190}} {{item:3092}} {{item:3165}} or {{item:3020}} {{item:3285}} {{item:3089}} {{item:3907}} {{item:3092}} {{item:3165}}
: I'm not sure how you arrive at me saying "I'm sorry, we didn't think about it" when I articulated how we had multiple conversations about the toggle. Just to repeat: we had many conversations about it and multiple meetings about it, and we decided in the end that even though we did not have the time/resources to ship with a toggle, we wanted to get finishers and spawn ceremonies into the competition. It was either ship without a toggle or don't ship it at all, and we felt that bringing them to the competition was better despite not having a toggle than not shipping them at all.
I think the problem with your response was that you replied to a thread that is specifically addressing how a feature is currently a health hazard for a part of the player base and chalked it up as "making League less enjoyable" while your explanation also failed to mention any consideration toward players with epilepsy, which implies that it wasn't a part of the conversations you claim to have had and thus didn't think about it.
: Yuumi Seems Pretty Weak On Paper
I think an important part that's supposed to make Yuumi strong is that if the champion she's attached to uses a teleport of any sort she will teleport with them. This ability, of course, is much more valuable in pro play than in solo queue.
: Special interactions have been super weird and choosy for a while now. Even with Yuumi she asks Jhin to play her some music, but she doesn't say anything toward Sona? Like I get that theyre both supports, so they won't be allies very often, but that doesn't stol Primetime Draven having a Nashor's Tooth quote, or Jhin having a quote for Liandry's.
The Jhin interaction is likely a reference to vids of Sarper Duman playing piano for his cats while they sit on his lap. They often smother him with affection while he plays, it's really adorable.
: Yeah. Hopefully it looks better. Still, if you just want to showcase her theme, why animate it at all? Especially like that?
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I wanted to say something now just in case, rather than risk waiting for it to be "too late in the process to change".
Rioter Comments
: So How 'Bout That New Skinline?
I thought how recently champions got skins and diversity in skin pool were a couple of the factors they accounted for when deciding what skins to do. While I agree that Lux and Ez don't need anymore skins, I thought their next one would be dark. One of the complaints before with Lux's skins was that a lot of them were military themed, which is why people were happy when she finally got Star Guardian. But now it looks like they're just going to keep giving her anime skins. Similarly the only remotely dark skin Ez has is Ace of Spades, which only looks so because of Shaco imo. I don't really mind the other champions they chose, but I liked the idea of choosing Vel'koz as an Assassination Classroom reference, especially since they did chromas, but I know Riot moved away from close references to other things years ago. I also agree with the sentiment that Graves being here is kind of an "I guess?". I also don't like the one-arm-in-the-jacket-one-arm-out on Jayce. Having said that, Yuumi's recall animation is great.
: My Thoughts On Yuumi As An Enchanter Main
I think the most disappointing part of this is that it's our first traditional enchanter class champion in 6 years and they chose to pretty much echo what they already have, kind of like what happened with Dunkmaster Ivern. IMO they just overall stopped choosing new designs in season 6 and I'm not sure why. Kai'Sa's concept art is evidence that they are still exploring interesting things, but the final decision seems to always end up being "let's do something close to what we already have".
y0r1ck (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=ShadowGlaive213,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uloMcihE,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-04-20T06:37:18.092+0000) > > The recurring arguments for keeping bans seem to be: > 1. X is OP. > 2. I don't like having to play around X champion mechanic. > 3. I don't want to play X champion. > > Bans are not a good solution to balance issues, they're limited in scope and don't actually fix the champions' balance problem. > Design decisions are not made around whether you simply like to do something or not. If it's lack of counterplay that's actually the issue then there are other routes Riot can explore to remedy it as they've demonstrated with new items and summoner spells. > The Bench and re-rolls already enable players to avoid playing a specific champion if they roll them. > > There also seems to be some misinformation getting propagated. ARAM accounts are not as effective as people make them out to be. Everyone's pool includes the current free rotation and the 2 that came before, so everyone is always rolling from an ever changing and unoptimized pool of at least 42. While they still influence games in their favor, it's not to the extent that a lot of players are touting in regards to guaranteeing rolls. > > Furthermore there were more than just a few complaints voiced when Riot [first mentioned](https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2019/03/dev-more-experimental-aram-changes/) that bans were coming, and complaints [weren't the only reason](https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2019/04/dev-aram-changes-wrap-up/) for not keeping bans. Despite player claims of increased champion diversity, Riot data showed a decrease in diversity. > > Riot made it clear that bans were experimental and they were here for 2 weeks, not just a few days, and just because they're gone it doesn't mean ARAM will never achieve a more balanced state. Keeping them until they find real solutions would cause even more players to get upset once they're removed simply because a power they liked and got used to having was taken away. Good first point. Balancing the game mode will be far easier if there are no bans. Except I don't care if the mode is balanced or not, I just don't want to fight xerath, vel'koz, and veigar on that map anymore. Some champions just have too good of a kit for aram, riot could spend time balancing them but they've made it clear in the past that balancing ARAM isn't going to happen. Seeing as how they've said balancing ARAM will never be a priority, I think bans are a decent alternative. Yes there were complaints when bans were introduced, but the number of complaints after removing them far outweigh the ones from introducing them. Besides nobody's saying complaints are why the bans should come back. They're saying bans should come back because it was more fun. As for ARAM accounts, they definitely exist. The more games you win, the more you'll notice poke mages. They're a certain problem at higher MMR, and even ruin some games at low MMR. Whether it's enough of a problem to act on, nobody but RIOT knows. Edit - I appreciate that you took the time to address common arguments. I think it's good to engage with the strongest arguments of the other side.
Balancing ARAM has never been a priority but they still put out changes to make the mode more balanced once in a blue moon, previously with the introduction of Snowball and most recently by keeping poke mitigation and champion stat adjustments, which they already said they'd continue to do every so often. It may not be top on their list, but the continued exploration of new items and summoner spells to help less dominant champs indicates that it is something Riot wants to do to some extent. In [OP](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/uloMcihE-bring-bans-back-to-aram-poll): > I don't know why they would remove the ability to ban because of a few complaints when it should be clear that more people than not want bans in ARAM. I wasn't trying to argue that Riot should make choices based on the number of complaints (if that were the case Yasuo and Teemo would've been deleted years ago), I just pointed them out because I felt the OP was downplaying the number of people that don't want bans. I already acknowledged in my original comment that ARAM accounts exist and that they still do influence games, and was merely pointing out that they don't have as much control as a lot of players seem to think. I've been seeing a lot of people who are complaining about ARAM accounts claim that they have a 50% chance to roll a poke mage because they still think the pool is limited to the current free week + champions owned or that they have a 1/30 chance of rolling Xerath along with other similar claims, which isn't true because you're always rolling from the current free week and the previous 2 free weeks ( 42 champions) + whatever you own that isn't also free. This tells me that a lot of player opinions are being shaped by misinformation so I wanted to clarify that. And thanks, I actually wasn't sure if I should bother saying anything cuz it feels like most of the people mobbing the boards about this want what they want cuz they want it. Their minds are made up and they aren't actually open to looking at the whats, whys, hows, and alternatives.
Rioter Comments
: just palyed today and i have the same issue
Yeah, I just got it today too. Seems it hasn't been fixed yet =/
Zraebiel (NA)
: Bring Bans Back To ARAM (Poll)
The recurring arguments for keeping bans seem to be: 1. X is OP. 2. I don't like having to play around X champion mechanic. 3. I don't want to play X champion. Bans are not a good solution to balance issues, they're limited in scope and don't actually fix the champions' balance problem. Design decisions are not made around whether you simply like to do something or not. If it's lack of counterplay that's actually the issue then there are other routes Riot can explore to remedy it as they've demonstrated with new items and summoner spells. The Bench and re-rolls already enable players to avoid playing a specific champion if they roll them. There also seems to be some misinformation getting propagated. ARAM accounts are not as effective as people make them out to be. Everyone's pool includes the current free rotation and the 2 that came before, so everyone is always rolling from an ever changing and unoptimized pool of at least 42. While they still influence games in their favor, it's not to the extent that a lot of players are touting in regards to guaranteeing rolls. Furthermore there were more than just a few complaints voiced when Riot [first mentioned](https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2019/03/dev-more-experimental-aram-changes/) that bans were coming, and complaints [weren't the only reason](https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2019/04/dev-aram-changes-wrap-up/) for not keeping bans. Despite player claims of increased champion diversity, Riot data showed a decrease in diversity. Riot made it clear that bans were experimental and they were here for 2 weeks, not just a few days, and just because they're gone it doesn't mean ARAM will never achieve a more balanced state. Keeping them until they find real solutions would cause even more players to get upset once they're removed simply because a power they liked and got used to having was taken away.
: Are you referring to long forgotten Journal of Justice {{sticker:sg-ahri-1}}
It may have been buried, but it will never be forgotten >.>
y0r1ck (NA)
: I love the bans. I like aram a lot, but my least favorite part is how ridiculous some mages are on the map. Banning veigar makes me happy. If the only reason not to have bans is to preserve the integrity of a random mode, I definitely want to keep bans. Agree with you on everything else.
I don't think bans in general are a good solution to balance issues. They're a lazy band-aid solution at best and I would rather Riot continue exploring other ways they can help make less dominant champions more viable on the map, as they've shown with these other changes. The reason they're okay on SR is because it's supposed to be less about balance and more a strategic decision surrounding your, and the enemy's, picks.
KingLCM (NA)
: Bans: They help a lot. I tend to ban veigar and playing against him in ARAM as a melee champ is a joke with his cages. Minions & Turret Changes: ARAM games were already fast enough. Now they're pushing anti-comeback mechanics and trying to make games end even faster. This is probably one of the worst changes. Poke Reduction: Great. Poke has always been really strong in ARAM. Backtrack: I never see assassins use this. I just see squishy champs like adc's and mages use this. It makes it even harder for assassins. I'm not a fan because it gives too much safety. Mariner's Vengeance/Ghostwalkers: It's very rare that I see people use this. Seems like they're very situational items and don't seem too strong or weak. Warmogs: I never saw warmogs as an issue but it's still a decent item. Rune Adjustments: Very good. Champion Buffs/Nerfs: The numbers could use some tweaking but they're overall good changes promoting champion diversity instead of there being "good" champs and "bad" champs. ARAM has been more enjoyable to be honest. The biggest issue is that games are ending so soon and comebacks are even more difficult.
In my 50+ games I've seen Backtrack on both squishies and assassins, I just found assassins that have a way in but not a way out get the most use out of it (i.e. Kass, Akali, Nocturne) though it does take some timing. While I'm not saying it's bad on squishies, I think they would benefit more from Barrier because it shields more damage and it doesn't take 2.5s for an assassin to kill them so, more often than not, they're not benefiting from the reduced displacement effect that they traded some shield for.
Rayet (EUNE)
: The only things i like are the champion buffs/nerfs and bans. Ghostwalkers - who doesn't like watching the walls to see if there's any assassin lurking around? Weren't enough complains back then? Minions - who thought inhibitors falling in 10 minutes are cool? Mariner’s Revenge - seen it only on Yi, it doesn't matter if you CC and burst him, 4 seconds are more than enough for him to kill 2-3 squishies. Games are now won at the loading screen. If you can push better than the enemy team, it's GG, cause they can't stall the game long enough to outscale you. So overall, one step forward and 20 steps backwards. I played ARAM because it was fast paced, but now feels more like Counter Strike. If that's how you like to balance, it's better to just leave it alone.
To be fair, the minion changes only take place after 15min, but champions do deal 10% more damage to structures now.
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ShadowGlaive213

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