: If they legit removed Q MS and put E amp back she'd be worse than pre 5.2 because she ate nerfs for her 5.2 stuff. And she was considered balanced back then.
> [{quoted}](name=NineTailedMystic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jQYRGhnv,comment-id=001100000000,timestamp=2017-03-27T03:08:49.943+0000) > > If they legit removed Q MS and put E amp back she'd be worse than pre 5.2 because she ate nerfs for her 5.2 stuff. And she was considered balanced back then. No she'd be significantly better. If you count her pre-5.2 followed by post-5.2, the net change was movespeed on Q, no amp on E, and a ton of QoLs that absolutely nobody took into account at the time.
Paroe (NA)
: @thread So... questions. Whats wrong with a high death count? No seriously. Strategically, if you dont reset your gold, its an extremely powerful tool. So whats wrong with it? Also, Why are people bitching about a 2v1 botlane when they KNEW it would be the case? Pick a safe ADC - safe is not range; safe is mobile. You want ezreal, lucian, vayne, graves. Not caitlyn, ashe, varus, or jinx. Honestly it sounds to me like a LOT of you people just dont understand the concept of adapting out of the norm and are complaining because youre being asked to think about things from a different sphere of thought.
> [{quoted}](name=Paroe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iQBhwNJM,comment-id=003e,timestamp=2017-03-19T22:44:22.837+0000) > > @thread > So... questions. > Whats wrong with a high death count? > No seriously. Strategically, if you dont reset your gold, its an extremely powerful tool. So whats wrong with it? > Also, Why are people bitching about a 2v1 botlane when they KNEW it would be the case? Pick a safe ADC - safe is not range; safe is mobile. You want ezreal, lucian, vayne, graves. Not caitlyn, ashe, varus, or jinx. > > Honestly it sounds to me like a LOT of you people just dont understand the concept of adapting out of the norm and are complaining because youre being asked to think about things from a different sphere of thought. Cait has forever and always been the second safest AD carry in the game, right behind Ezreal. But there's nothing I or even the ADC pros can do when an Elise walks right behind you and just sits there while the enemy bot lane pushes right to your tower. You wanna know how many times I died before Elise ganked? Zero. Absolutely zero deaths until they decide to dogpile bot lane and snowball off of there. Elise showed up to kill me and then showed up again and all the while I got no help from my "support" OR the jungler. So I would appreciate if you didn't fault me for his strategy not working because of whether or not I coordinated with him.
: Riot, Please Help Support Mains
I don't think shielding should have a spot. However, damage shielded would definitely be fair to add.
elduris (NA)
: Yep. I watched a lot of his games and pulled a lot of statistics regarding his playstyle. His bot tower is nearly always the first one to fall, typically before the 10 minute mark (usually around 7-9 minutes). The enemy jungler, while maybe losing out on some camps, just applies pressure in the bot lane to compensate. First tower and a few kills on the bot laner makes up for any advantage lost from Nunu. He never properly communicates with his team, just tells them what he plans to do and makes everyone else adapt to him. The most frustrating thing about all this is all the people misrepresenting the situation and jumping to conclusions or over-exaggerating. Brofresco made a video about the guy and was so wrong about literally every aspect that I felt the need to make my own video explaining all the ways he was wrong. When you look at it objectively, there's nothing that makes him different from the people demanding their role in champion select even if they get assigned something else. Makes no sense to try to defend this type of behavior. Everyone knows League is a team game and yes, sometimes you will be held to the standards of your teammates. That's what happens in team games. You wanna play your style all the time, there are plenty of competitive single player games.
> [{quoted}](name=elduris,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iQBhwNJM,comment-id=003c,timestamp=2017-03-19T21:39:28.445+0000) > > Yep. I watched a lot of his games and pulled a lot of statistics regarding his playstyle. His bot tower is nearly always the first one to fall, typically before the 10 minute mark (usually around 7-9 minutes). The enemy jungler, while maybe losing out on some camps, just applies pressure in the bot lane to compensate. First tower and a few kills on the bot laner makes up for any advantage lost from Nunu. He never properly communicates with his team, just tells them what he plans to do and makes everyone else adapt to him. > > The most frustrating thing about all this is all the people misrepresenting the situation and jumping to conclusions or over-exaggerating. Brofresco made a video about the guy and was so wrong about literally every aspect that I felt the need to make my own video explaining all the ways he was wrong. When you look at it objectively, there's nothing that makes him different from the people demanding their role in champion select even if they get assigned something else. Makes no sense to try to defend this type of behavior. Everyone knows League is a team game and yes, sometimes you will be held to the standards of your teammates. That's what happens in team games. You wanna play your style all the time, there are plenty of competitive single player games. Brofresco is the biggest moron to have any renown in League. He, and many of his followers, shouldn't have input on the game.
Ulanopo (NA)
: Not trying to push, but I'm an Arbiter over in the PB&M form and it's interesting to talk with someone who played with him. >And I don't report anyone for anything besides toxicity and the occasional scripter. Fair enough. I'm trying to get a sense of how it feels, though. What will you do if you get paired with him again? >While that's selfish that's what most players expect so I just played along as usual. Do you feel this sort of behavior should be the accepted norm in champion select? How much negotiation or compromise do you see in champion select? Do you feel this is an appropriate amount? How often do you "put your foot down" with regards to your choices? How do your teammates respond when you do? >he wouldn't have played an actual support. When you say "actual support", are you referring more to the choice of champion or the way the champion was played? Do you feel Support Smite Nunu would be more viable if played differently? How often do you see "non-standard" supports and what is your general experience with them?
> [{quoted}](name=Ulanopo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iQBhwNJM,comment-id=002d00000000,timestamp=2017-03-19T19:55:21.208+0000) > > Not trying to push, but I'm an Arbiter over in the PB&M form and it's interesting to talk with someone who played with him. > > Fair enough. I'm trying to get a sense of how it feels, though. > > What will you do if you get paired with him again? > > Do you feel this sort of behavior should be the accepted norm in champion select? > How much negotiation or compromise do you see in champion select? Do you feel this is an appropriate amount? > How often do you "put your foot down" with regards to your choices? How do your teammates respond when you do? > > When you say "actual support", are you referring more to the choice of champion or the way the champion was played? > Do you feel Support Smite Nunu would be more viable if played differently? > How often do you see "non-standard" supports and what is your general experience with them? Probably just dodge since I don't want my ADC to afk on me as per most ADs. It really shouldn't be the accepted norm. Play the role you're given. Play whatever you do best in that role but seriously just play that role. I believe in a few games Faker played and won as Irelia mid. Irelia shouldn't be going mid but at the end of the day Faker still was playing mid and he was doing things as a midlaner. When I say actual supports that's what I mean. I usually just want some good utility (whether via healing/peel/cc, etc) and functionality in a standard lane. I see Zyra, Brand, and Vel'Koz all the time. It's the act of being normalized as a support that turns these non-standard ones into standard supports. It's mostly a matter of "can I do anything to either prevent my ADC's death (excluding killing the assailant first) or set up kills." If you can't do either that shouldn't be a support champion.
Ulanopo (NA)
: I'm curious how you felt during champion select. Did you feel you were being asked to opt in to the Nunu's strategy? Did you feel the Nunu was sincere in thinking this is an effective and fun strategy? Did you try to negotiate with the Nunu and, if not, why not? Did you feel the Nunu would do something else if you asked? In a larger sense, do you feel the Nunu accommodated you at any point? If the Nunu asked you to be his/her duo partner so they could have someone who was familiar with the strategy, would you say yes? Also, if you played with someone who exhibited the same attitude and behavior, but was not trying to "break the meta", would you still choose to not report them?
> [{quoted}](name=Ulanopo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iQBhwNJM,comment-id=002d,timestamp=2017-03-19T16:47:51.956+0000) > > I'm curious how you felt during champion select. > > Did you feel you were being asked to opt in to the Nunu's strategy? > Did you feel the Nunu was sincere in thinking this is an effective and fun strategy? > Did you try to negotiate with the Nunu and, if not, why not? > Did you feel the Nunu would do something else if you asked? In a larger sense, do you feel the Nunu accommodated you at any point? > If the Nunu asked you to be his/her duo partner so they could have someone who was familiar with the strategy, would you say yes? > > Also, if you played with someone who exhibited the same attitude and behavior, but was not trying to "break the meta", would you still choose to not report them? He dropped his sentence stating what he intended to do and I felt like he was telling us that we had to adhere to his strategy. While that's selfish that's what most players expect so I just played along as usual. Yes, he sincerely thought it was good and since I knew I wasn't going to convince him I didn't negotiate. He only plays Nunu so he wouldn't have played an actual support. No I don't duo with crazy people. And I don't report anyone for anything besides toxicity and the occasional scripter.
: Sucks for you i guess. People love him for the same reason they love the support singed, they do something that's considered bad but still manage tot climb with it. I don't get the caitlyn pick tho. Why not take ezreal or like lucian. While caitlyn is alot safer on her own than jinx or KOG i don't think it compares tot ezreal. He's trying to win he's just nog trying to just not in your way. From what i read you're at a relatively high elo so i'm sure your guys can find a way tot play around it.
> [{quoted}](name=Vape Naysh YalI,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iQBhwNJM,comment-id=002c,timestamp=2017-03-19T16:42:11.941+0000) > > Sucks for you i guess. People love him for the same reason they love the support singed, they do something that's considered bad but still manage tot climb with it. > > I don't get the caitlyn pick tho. Why not take ezreal or like lucian. While caitlyn is alot safer on her own than jinx or KOG i don't think it compares tot ezreal. > > He's trying to win he's just nog trying to just not in your way. From what i read you're at a relatively high elo so i'm sure your guys can find a way tot play around it. I was actually going to pick Ezreal but their AD picked him in the rotation right before I picked so I opted for Cait.
UrZedM8 (NA)
: I dont think people on the boards actually understand just how hard it is to 1v2 bot lane. I don't even play bot lane and I know that shit is impossible. They will either freeze the wave and the support zones you from any farm whatsoever. Or they push in and dive you with the jungler and take first blood tower. The people who defend this kind of play style are idiots.
> [{quoted}](name=UrZedM8,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iQBhwNJM,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2017-03-19T04:27:27.378+0000) > > I dont think people on the boards actually understand just how hard it is to 1v2 bot lane. I don't even play bot lane and I know that shit is impossible. They will either freeze the wave and the support zones you from any farm whatsoever. Or they push in and dive you with the jungler and take first blood tower. The people who defend this kind of play style are idiots. Yeah pretty much. It was downright impossible to cs because Nami could just as easily walk up to me and auto W for a quarter of my life so I was like, "Alright let's just sit at tower." and then I saw Spider Bitch behind me and I was like, "Let's uh... let's look at the map to see my team backing me up and... okay I'm taking the L for this one. Fantastic." Ate a stun and a botlane's damage under turret and they got first tower too.
: One of my favorite things about Match History is when it doesn't load and is just a blank box.
> [{quoted}](name=Shuyin178,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iQBhwNJM,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2017-03-19T03:53:54.519+0000) > > One of my favorite things about Match History is when it doesn't load and is just a blank box. You have to download a little something for Chrome to actually get it to work. Type in "LoL Match History Fix" and you should find it.
: People in bronze elo are toxic to riven mains. Why?
It's a stigma against Riven players.
Skorch (NA)
: Just to double check and be sure, i looked at your OP.GG to make sure you werent just trying to perpetuate hatred. Indeed you did play with him. I personally beleive he was rightfully banned. I just double checked you so other people know you are telling the truth. ALSO GOOD GOD The nunu players average KDA on nunu out of 357 games played with a 55% winrate is 1.3/7.1/11.0 Thats not that many assists per death.
> [{quoted}](name=Skorch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iQBhwNJM,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-03-19T03:34:22.954+0000) > > Just to double check and be sure, i looked at your OP.GG to make sure you werent just trying to perpetuate hatred. Indeed you did play with him. > I personally beleive he was rightfully banned. I just double checked you so other people know you are telling the truth. > > ALSO GOOD GOD The nunu players average KDA on nunu out of 357 games played with a 55% winrate is 1.3/7.1/11.0 Thats not that many assists per death. Nah I don't mind. I think you should be honest because people are gonna look for the tiniest flaws.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Lupan (NA)
: Ahri
You could just say you think she's too safe for the amount of damage she dealt. You could've completely ignored adding the part where you were like, "Well I picked an objectively bad champion and my midlaner who is in fact countered by her fed and she, as part assassin part mage, did a lot of damage in a short period of time." And for fuck's sake just address what you think is wrong with her kit rather than stating the things she has. "I think she has too many options in her kit for all scenarios" works a lot better than, "Let's count everything in her kit." And I would agree, I do think she's too strong right now. However, the post you just made is raving lunacy and more than anything else seems to affirm that a fed champion is doing what fed champions do.
Xonra (NA)
: Yeah I know Diamond players with less actual game knowledge than my cat, but happen to know their 3 champions really well and have good mechanics. Let's not confuse the two.
> [{quoted}](name=Xonra,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T2JNb3cm,comment-id=001a00000000,timestamp=2017-03-15T22:27:39.544+0000) > > Yeah I know Diamond players with less actual game knowledge than my cat, but happen to know their 3 champions really well and have good mechanics. Let's not confuse the two. See, this is why people don't take boards seriously. Ya'll prefer eloquent speakers and shoot down even Challengers for the speaker who is spewing shit so long as it's shit that's nicely worded and fits your narrative. I could point out that probably 25% of the mass upvoted threads on this board are rubbish that's loved because it off peoples' feelings (which are fiery and easily manipulated when they're pissed, not something difficult for League to accomplish) and then show you the post I made about why Lucian's buffs exacerbated his issues when he was strong and it got less than 5 comments and it's probably at a score of 0 right now because it's "boring and mouthy" and "I don't agree with your opinion." Quit being so quick to knock down high elo players this is why people don't take Boards seriously. You don't have to worship the fucking air we breathe but, "Oh yeah my cat can get diamond" gets old and it's tiring to be shot down so quickly and repeatedly, especially when so many of these statements aren't opinions but facts.
: Usually, Memes and Games are full of people who are Bronze and Silver players that act like we are way too overboard with shit while they are chill n all.
> [{quoted}](name=WarringNations,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T2JNb3cm,comment-id=001a,timestamp=2017-03-15T20:54:49.535+0000) > > Usually, Memes and Games are full of people who are Bronze and Silver players that act like we are way too overboard with shit while they are chill n all. As a Diamond player, I can confirm that they're absolutely correct.
: Can anyone explain bronzie why armor is efficient against lethality? Why hp is not better?
> [{quoted}](name=Aldapsayar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OhMRyGsp,comment-id=0029,timestamp=2017-03-14T16:41:49.644+0000) > > Can anyone explain bronzie why armor is efficient against lethality? Why hp is not better? Armor pen of any kind does more damage the less they have of it. So you know how if you get your first 100 armor you get 50% damage reduction but if you get 200 armor you only get 66% damage reduction? That's how it works with Lethality too. Shredding 100 armor when your target has 100 will make you do 50% more damage, but shredding 100 when he has 200 will only make you deal 16% more damage. So you get the armor because it breaks even with the armor pen and keeps it from amplifying damage while you take more damage if you forego armor for health.
Snarflaz (NA)
: Is Viktor Still A good PIck
He's really good but you have to be amazing at Viktor to pull him off.
: Yeah not getting to play the game because the enemy team took exhaust is fun
> [{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IxdTubBb,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-03-07T21:18:02.316+0000) > > Yeah not getting to play the game because the enemy team took exhaust is fun The same could be said for not getting to play the game because the assassin bursts you down too quickly. The real issue was in most games it was 2/5 summoner spells and in some 3/5 people took it. It was too all purpose and had too many random stat debuffs in it.
zk0x (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Silvanduin,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=Az58kaOE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-03-06T05:12:58.427+0000) > > When you think you can 1v2 but you're Gold EleGiggle > > 300 games Jinx 1.78 KDA KappaPride You can laugh all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that I'm THE best Jinx and 4th. Insult me, humor me, laugh at me, or cry whatever you want, it cannot change the fact that I am the best and team player. I sacrifice to win the game. Win/lose is the result. Your score means nothing. Did I ever play against diamond? Yup, and I destroyed diamond multiple of times. 8) {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
> [{quoted}](name=zk0x,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=Az58kaOE,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-03-06T05:21:43.322+0000) > > You can laugh all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that I'm THE best Jinx and 4th. Insult me, humor me, laugh at me, or cry whatever you want, it cannot change the fact that I am the best and team player. I sacrifice to win the game. Win/lose is the result. Your score means nothing. > > Did I ever play against diamond? Yup, and I destroyed diamond multiple of times. > > 8) > > {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}} Memes really do write themselves.
zk0x (NA)
: Apparently, most of you don't know what support role is.
When you think you can 1v2 but you're Gold EleGiggle 300 games Jinx 1.78 KDA KappaPride
: Yeah it wouldn't be so odd if he wasn't already walking left and casting a spell when he dodged right I'd def say scripts
> [{quoted}](name=Cronofuge,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=tuvWEERb,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-03-06T00:35:09.873+0000) > > Yeah it wouldn't be so odd if he wasn't already walking left and casting a spell when he dodged right > > I'd def say scripts Oh yeah definitely I thought it was odd that he was so good at juking and then I watched him walk left, perform a combo, and juke right and then go back to walking left. At that point I just started laughing and thinking, "And I thought I just couldn't throw skillshots."
: Seems like a pretty obvious charm tho
> [{quoted}](name=Grimspeake,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=tuvWEERb,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-03-05T22:36:14.194+0000) > > Seems like a pretty obvious charm tho Look at his movements, not my skillshot. As a player, it's almost impossible to be running left, juke 90 degrees to the right just as a cast time starts, and then start running left again. Then you consider that he was also in the middle of a combo and that's goes from being almost impossible to straight outta Starcraft's Grandmaster rank.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
MechEz (NA)
: I seriously hate music nowadays.
Imagine Dragons and onerepublic are the only good bandsnowadays? The fuck? They're so horrifically mediocre.
: > [{quoted}](name=Silvanduin,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=vJY8xjLf,comment-id=0004000100000000,timestamp=2017-03-01T21:21:52.001+0000) > > At the same time would it kill averages to try to do something unique or at least add their touch? > > Every good artist has a unique style. One that their most hardcore fans don't even have to know it's by them and they recognize it. Anyone and their mother can recognize Slash's guitar by the sounds it makes, or Rush's drummer going to town. > > The only thing that makes Nickelback recognizable is Chad's voice, and to that I repeat my previous statement. If it's average, it's not unique. Words have meanings.
> [{quoted}](name=RookPusher,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=vJY8xjLf,comment-id=00040001000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-01T21:43:42.455+0000) > > If it's average, it's not unique. Words have meanings. I meant average skill. Look at a band like MCR. MCR is off on the lower end in terms of musicianship but they're loved because they're so unique and pushed the envelop on their respective genre. Look at the fucking Black Parade. That's what I mean. They had 2 big hits and one of them was so out there and special that it's now engraved as a pop culture icon. I don't expect bands to go that far. I just want a little signature trait that defines their music.
: > [{quoted}](name=Silvanduin,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=fXaN8lA9,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-03-01T20:51:33.210+0000) > > Support is unique because it's function is different. > > That's not to say supports are bad it's just so funky and unique that it requires a different mindset to use them. Yeah like I said, the power fantasy is massively different and not directly comparable, one of the most difficult things about balancing league is finding the right amount of control for supports so that damage dealers and tanks can reach them with knowledgeable and skillful play, but can't reach them at a default because part of the support's role is to be stat checked by anyone unless they sacrificed utility items for a less efficient and accessible tank build it's why whenever riot takes another crack at re-sculpting the meta, finding a new balance of cc for the supports is one of the first things to be addressed every time > As for your Skyrim reference Restoration is both ungodly useful and unnecessary. My first run through was a Wood Elf archer/assassin and I absolutely didn't need Restoration but if I played something significantly less subtle I'd either need to stock up on potions, be a god at hand to hand combat, or be a mage who has access to those spells. > > That's why Breton Spellsword is the definition of easy-mode Skyrim. skyrim is a single player action adventure game that is intended to be accessible via it's health system, the game is by it's very definition easy unless you push a build with the knowledge and acceptance that it's inefficient, or crank the difficulty up to legendary and even then every playstyle has a stunlock _(kinda haha suck it archers gotta be bad at something)_ - You will get more dps out of a two handed enchanted sword necromage vampire _(optional)_ with vegetable stew in their belly than anything else unless you use the resto 'glitch' _(which I'm convinced is very intentional)_ _(or did they remove it I remember seeing something about that)_ _(and even then the two swords will still do more it's just the numbers are cranked so high it doesn't matter)_ - archery is more efficient for ranged combat than destruction, even against dwemer constructs and other things packing armor, and you don't need any stamina to make it's aiming perk relevant - and so you can go pure health with this build to completely remove all risk at all levels in fact you can do this with any build, go full health, and you will never run into a challenge, even those swinging door traps like the one in bleak falls barrow that just kill you and you think that's going to keep happening all game and this is the point pure health will get you through the game, get you the dragon shouts and make you a legend but you will get bored, and if you want to explore other aspects of the game you can find ways to take what isn't yours and get very rich or cause mass destruction while barely being involved and that's where magicka and *blech* 'stamina' come in _(I'm a stamina hater hurdurr I can run a higher % of the time)_ and you can switch from this health focus, to whatever your secondary stat breakdown is whenever you want. If you're a decent player, higher health is silly and you'll have more fun admitting you don't need all that health and picking up secondary skills also the point plus the vanilla game stops scaling at level 55 making a pure health player feel silly after that point unless pure health is just what they're doing action adventure games are sandboxes, there is no pride in optimizing them unless you care about that for your own experiences _(for some reason the 100 health number is really satisfying to me, and that's okay, that's what choices in these games are for, but I know it's silly and that's okay too)_ i guess I'm saying 99% of the game is unnecessary but if it's not a competition the game becomes about exploration and understanding, not victory, because in action adventure games victory is always assured and I guess I'm also saying is anyone treating skyrim optimization like a competition may not know how to have fun or something
> [{quoted}](name=Maid of Plays,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=fXaN8lA9,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-03-01T21:21:39.032+0000) > >snip I'm just using the Skyrim example to highlight what I meant by supports standing outside of the meta. :d
: > [{quoted}](name=Silvanduin,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=vJY8xjLf,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2017-03-01T21:13:04.068+0000) > > People hate Nickelback because they're one of the most successful bands yet one of the most mediocre. It seems pretty unfair, and to an extent I agree. > > I listen to a lot of music too and there's so many songs that are phenomenal and absolutely unappreciated. > > I just got finished listening to Volbeat's Outlaw Gentlemen and that was a good fucking album. Yet, Volbeat is considered nowhere near Nickelback, even though a good number of the songs on that album top anything Nickelback has put out. > > Another similar band that's been out just as long, that I think deserves more success, is Breaking Benjamin. Compare the two. Breaking Benjamin's singles are phenomenal. Look at _Never Again_, _Sooner or Later_, or _Dear Agony_. I've listened to _Photograph_, _Saving Me_, and _If Today Was Your Last Day_. Couldn't even come close to being as catchy or instrumentally well written. > > On top of that Chad Kroeger's voice is scratchy and gross. Yes but that checks out. Averages are averages for a reason. It's a rare thing for someone to do something truly progressive and cutting edge and be loved. There's a ton of great music out there, but you're making he assumption that you and they listen to music for the same reason. Most people don't want to put in effort, or evaluate music. They just want to turn their brains off and either veg out or dance. Nothing wrong with that, but you're also not going to put on the new Bon Iver album if you're at a coffee shop. (that album was garbage, by the way). Getting attnetion has no bearing on talent. None. They're almost two wildly different things. Which is why bands ape movements. Becuase if the masses have agreed to listen to a sound, then they'll accept more within the sound. You need a killer band to shift the meta.
> [{quoted}](name=RookPusher,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=vJY8xjLf,comment-id=000400010000,timestamp=2017-03-01T21:17:01.103+0000) > > Yes but that checks out. Averages are averages for a reason. It's a rare thing for someone to do something truly progressive and cutting edge and be loved. There's a ton of great music out there, but you're making he assumption that you and they listen to music for the same reason. > > Most people don't want to put in effort, or evaluate music. They just want to turn their brains off and either veg out or dance. Nothing wrong with that, but you're also not going to put on the new Bon Iver album if you're at a coffee shop. (that album was garbage, by the way). > > Getting attnetion has no bearing on talent. None. They're almost two wildly different things. Which is why bands ape movements. Becuase if the masses have agreed to listen to a sound, then they'll accept more within the sound. You need a killer band to shift the meta. At the same time would it kill averages to try to do something unique or at least add their touch? Every good artist has a unique style. One that their most hardcore fans don't even have to know it's by them and they recognize it. Anyone and their mother can recognize Slash's guitar by the sounds it makes, or Rush's drummer going to town. The only thing that makes Nickelback recognizable is Chad's voice, and to that I repeat my previous statement.
: Possibly the most hated band and the least deserving. This is what you get when a bunch of aging Gen X'ers want to remain hip in their mini vans so they take the talking points from the internet, but haven't heard a song from the band in 10 years. I'm by no means the best, but I listen to a considerable volume of music. And there's far worse than Nickleback. Also, Breathe doesn't get enough credit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qlg1c_Vu724
> [{quoted}](name=RookPusher,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=vJY8xjLf,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-03-01T20:32:41.205+0000) > > Possibly the most hated band and the least deserving. This is what you get when a bunch of aging Gen X'ers want to remain hip in their mini vans so they take the talking points from the internet, but haven't heard a song from the band in 10 years. > > I'm by no means the best, but I listen to a considerable volume of music. And there's far worse than Nickleback. > > Also, Breathe doesn't get enough credit. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qlg1c_Vu724 People hate Nickelback because they're one of the most successful bands yet one of the most mediocre. It seems pretty unfair, and to an extent I agree. I listen to a lot of music too and there's so many songs that are phenomenal and absolutely unappreciated. I just got finished listening to Volbeat's Outlaw Gentlemen and that was a good fucking album. Yet, Volbeat is considered nowhere near Nickelback, even though a good number of the songs on that album top anything Nickelback has put out. Another similar band that's been out just as long, that I think deserves more success, is Breaking Benjamin. Compare the two. Breaking Benjamin's singles are phenomenal. Look at _Never Again_, _Sooner or Later_, or _Dear Agony_. I've listened to _Photograph_, _Saving Me_, and _If Today Was Your Last Day_. Couldn't even come close to being as catchy or instrumentally well written. On top of that Chad Kroeger's voice is scratchy and gross.
: "Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise!"
Support is unique because it's function is different. That's not to say supports are bad it's just so funky and unique that it requires a different mindset to use them. As for your Skyrim reference Restoration is both ungodly useful and unnecessary. My first run through was a Wood Elf archer/assassin and I absolutely didn't need Restoration but if I played something significantly less subtle I'd either need to stock up on potions, be a god at ~~hand to hand~~ melee combat, or be a mage who has access to those spells. That's why Breton Spellsword is the definition of easy-mode Skyrim.
Bârd (NA)
: To anyone who says "lol i don't really care if we lose" in ranked:
I don't care if I lose ranked. Losing is a fact of life. If you take every loss to heart you're gonna end up jaded and bitter.
: > [{quoted}](name=Silvanduin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aG0aNoJg,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-02-28T00:07:34.598+0000) > > It depends. With Vayne it's not surprising because her Q is an auto reset. > > With Braum your Q isn't gonna add stacks after they're stunned so might as well use it to make sure they're stunned even if they're not in auto range. Yeah but wouldn't you usually auto+Q auto?
> [{quoted}](name=TheMoonlitShadow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aG0aNoJg,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-02-28T00:10:09.335+0000) > > Yeah but wouldn't you usually auto+Q auto? Depends. I usually see Q auto Q or auto auto Q, depending on who is able to pick the fights.
: The burst mentality
It depends. With Vayne it's not surprising because her Q is an auto reset. With Braum your Q isn't gonna add stacks after they're stunned so might as well use it to make sure they're stunned even if they're not in auto range.
Vei (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Silvanduin,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=5cWEAiQh,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-02-27T17:09:31.789+0000) > > I believe that's phlegm, I could be wrong though. > > It coats your lungs when you get sick and makes for the really, REALLY bad coughing. I'm pretty sure it's phlegm, I'm just not sure what it means when it's green tho
> [{quoted}](name=Vei,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=5cWEAiQh,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-02-27T17:09:59.335+0000) > > I'm pretty sure it's phlegm, I'm just not sure what it means when it's green tho When it's green you are sick. That's about it from my super extensive knowledge (or lack thereof) in the medical field. I just know if you cough that shit out you're doing good.
Vei (NA)
: This may or may not be a bit gross to talk about but
I believe that's phlegm, I could be wrong though. It coats your lungs when you get sick and makes for the really, REALLY bad coughing.
NotSid (NA)
: "I don't like hearing opposing points of view..please make this place another echo chamber!" Sorry the truth hurts, mate. But you need to hear it. Trump is a disaster for the entire planet.
> [{quoted}](name=NotSid,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=3GyRWPNM,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-02-27T10:02:59.934+0000) > > "I don't like hearing opposing points of view..please make this place another echo chamber!" > > Sorry the truth hurts, mate. But you need to hear it. Trump is a disaster for the entire planet. ? I'm a fucking Liberal I know he's a disaster I'm just sick of hearing about him 24/7. He's a wreck. I get it. Shouting it over and over again at every little thing he does is so fucking tiring.
Rioter Comments
Lyseth (NA)
: ADC: playable or no?
Assassin update made ADCs more usable. The problem is it's only AD casters when people want crit sustained DPS ADCs to be the ones doing work.
: High elo smurfs
Well generally when I'm smurfing I'm trying to get out ASAP and get to somewhere at the very least mechanically proficient so I can practice a new champ's mechanics.
: Oh and now that you have nothing of value to add, because everything you have said has been refuted, we depend on the argument from authority. Fun fact the argument from authority is worthless, or would you like me to show you Doublelift saying ADCs will no longer be played like he did back around S5? Attempting the argument from authority is literally the last ditch effort of someone who can't accept when they have nothing left to add to the debate. BTW those 4 points you are not even close to facts, it's garbage you made up because it sounded good but holds no water and here is why.... 1--Mechanically I could give this, unfortunately from the point of strategy this is straight up false, if it helps you could think of it as macro vs micro if you get those terms from RTS games. Do you need to be able to hit that Thresh hook/Zyra root/etc as oppose to a Sona Q sure, although one could argue hitting Sona's Q while staying safe when you are as squishy as a cannon minion is a different type of micro skill but I digress, but do you still have the variety of choices, available to you in terms of situational itemization, IE ability to read the situation and then respond appropriately? No you don't, you buy mobi/sightstone/redemption every game because those items are the best options for support period. 2--No it's not. You can be 100% clueless when it comes to understanding actual strategy, IE when to take objectives, how to control the lane with your carry, when is a good time to rotate, etc etc and still climb if you can consistently land a Thresh hook, or Zyra root. It honestly amazes me the amount of plat supports I find who think staying bot lane even after their turret is lost instead of keeping up, or getting ahead, of the enemy teams rotations to stop the objective bleed, or even it out, is the best option. When I'm playing Varus and I have to literally tell my support to get out of the lost bot lane so we can make an impact else where then no you don't have to have the strategic knowledge you once did. 3--Um no you couldn't. http://lol.gamepedia.com/2015_World_Championship/Champion_Statistics Here is the champions picked during S5 worlds, supports where Braum/Thresh/Alistar/Kench, Lulu was played in mid and top. Janna made 3 appearances the whole tournament and Sona/Soraka/Karma/Nami all nonexistent. http://lol.gamepedia.com/Riot_-_World_Championship_2014/Scoreboards/Overview S4 wasn't as bad we did get some Janna and Nami, although Nami's record was terrible with with 10 wins to 16 losses. Braum and Morgana again picked up 12 games each, Sona was played 3 times lost all 3 of them. Alistar was being banned for his top lane and Lulu was still a mid/top pick. http://lol.gamepedia.com/2016_World_Championship/Champion_Statistics Here is S6 where Karma's play rate is inflated due to being a flex pick between mid and support. Behind her is Zyra/Nami/Braum as the top 3 with Nami once again sporting terrible win rates of 10 wins to 14 losses against Zyras 14 wins to 8 losses. Yeah actual tournament data completely disproves the whole "you could totally keep playing those supports" nonsense. I mean sure I guess you could but results speak for themselves they got destroyed by the actual best picks. 4--This is more of your argument from authority. Simply put if your argument is garbage it doesn't matter if it comes from the smartest person on the planet it's still a garbage argument and right now a garbage argument is all you have provided. Also if all you are doing is echoing other people then you are proving my point in that you are clueless. Learn to actually think for yourself and understand the actual concepts, and strategy of the game and you might realize just how silly what you are saying is.
> [{quoted}](name=Martyrofsand,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vi4slOnX,comment-id=00020001000200000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-26T02:05:44.402+0000) > >Oh and now that you have nothing of value to add, because everything you have said has been refuted, we depend on the argument from authority. 1. It's really a bad time to call fallacy on me after all the times your argument depended on your emotions instead of actual facts and you proceeded to go full ad hominem. 2. I'm pointing out that a lot of high elo players think this way. This is why I hate Doublelift. Because he's low elos' scapegoat for saying Diamond+ players don't have a decent grasp of the game when in reality a lot of them really get this shit. >Attempting the argument from authority is literally the last ditch effort of someone who can't accept when they have nothing left to add to the debate. Well if you're not going to listen to me might as well get the words of a support main. >1--Mechanically I could give this, unfortunately from the point of strategy this is straight up false, if it helps you could think of it as macro vs micro if you get those terms from RTS games. Do you need to be able to hit that Thresh hook/Zyra root/etc as oppose to a Sona Q sure, although one could argue hitting Sona's Q while staying safe when you are as squishy as a cannon minion is a different type of micro skill but I digress, but do you still have the variety of choices, available to you in terms of situational itemization, IE ability to read the situation and then respond appropriately? No you don't, you buy mobi/sightstone/redemption every game because those items are the best options for support period. Both micro and macro have improved significantly across the board in terms of gameplay. That's indisputable. You just learn things as you get a deeper understanding of the game. Proof that both have improved? If it wasn't for macro Korea wouldn't have the giant lead they have on every region who isn't China. Also, "wew Mobi/Sightstone/Redemption means there's no build flexibility, but S2 had build flexibility." No they fucking didn't. It was Boots, Sightstone, and Aegis with a Philosopher's Stone and a Heart of Gold in your inventory. That's 5 items you require instead of 3. You got to buy a few items as well if you got lucky and had a lead but hey, that's almost exactly what happens now too. >2--No it's not. You can be 100% clueless when it comes to understanding actual strategy, IE when to take objectives, how to control the lane with your carry, when is a good time to rotate, etc etc and still climb if you can consistently land a Thresh hook, or Zyra root. It honestly amazes me the amount of plat supports I find who think staying bot lane even after their turret is lost instead of keeping up, or getting ahead, of the enemy teams rotations to stop the objective bleed, or even it out, is the best option. When I'm playing Varus and I have to literally tell my support to get out of the lost bot lane so we can make an impact else where then no you don't have to have the strategic knowledge you once did. You're using anecdotal evidence to describe 3 of your last 43 ranked games of low elo solo queue. Do you not know how big of a mistake that is? Solo queue is the biggest variable in the game. I've seen god Threshes in Silver, boosted Jannas in Plat, and literally everything in between. The fact of the matter is that, yes, supports don't contribute purely through strategy right now, but they sacrificed that for dynamic play that allows them to contribute to the team and carry so much harder than they could before while not shouldering the entire burden of something that's actually a team's role. Look at Bard. Bard is a glorious champion who blends decision-making and mechanics to give you the ability to carry games incredibly hard. That's Riot's direction and it's a direction I think is much more healthy and enjoyable for the game than older supports like Janna and the initial Soraka kit. >3--Um no you couldn't. http://lol.gamepedia.com/2016_World_Championship/Champion_Statistics zzz I literally just said >Up until S6 worlds, you could still be a heal-bot or utility-bot and provide to your team in a way nobody else really could. Fact. I'll take the blame for saying "up until" when I meant "for the entirety of S6 up until worlds" but the point stands. You saw Soraka picks, Namis, tanks, etc. I don't get why you hate tanky supports though. There's nothing wrong with a support tank if that's what your team needs/wants. >4--This is more of your argument from authority. Simply put if your argument is garbage it doesn't matter if it comes from the smartest person on the planet it's still a garbage argument and right now a garbage argument is all you have provided. Also if all you are doing is echoing other people then you are proving my point in that you are clueless. Learn to actually think for yourself and understand the actual concepts, and strategy of the game and you might realize just how silly what you are saying is.' "You can't fallacy." *inserts ad hominems and vague insults and statements like it's a day job* 0k b0ss.
ANFU (NA)
: You do realize he is trash mode right now right?
> [{quoted}](name=ANFU,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oaQAqHAw,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-02-25T22:39:45.411+0000) > > You do realize he is trash mode right now right? I addressed it in the OP. It's not a matter of, "We're buffing him into viability." It's a matter of, "We're buffing what makes him problematic and annoying to fight WHEN he's OP."
MrHaZeYo (NA)
: They lowered his dash back to 0 mana?
> [{quoted}](name=MrHaZeYo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oaQAqHAw,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-02-25T22:43:08.052+0000) > > They lowered his dash back to 0 mana? Yes.
: Supports had a dynamic role in the game, but unlike the other 4 positions it wasn't a mechanical one, although you did still need some measure of mechanics. It was very much a strategic one, the support role was the shot caller, the one that when done right would ensure the team had the information they needed would alert their team to enemy movements and would get their team to actually follow through on objectives. You have the clueless idea that when one team starts warding there is nothing the enemy team could do. This is straight up bullshit of the highest degree. 400 oracles made counter warding and clearing your jungle very easy, 125 Pink wards made it possible to keep key places cleared out and safe. The idea that there was nothing the losing team could do hold no water when the warding game was that cheap, just because you refuse to acknowledge that doesn't change that fact, and there was absolutely nothing toxic about it other than the players who couldn't be bothered, but that's the players being toxic not the mechanic itself. No supports do not have a dynamic presence right now they have a static one. They bring additional damage, or they bring another mini-tank. That is not dynamic, and Thresh did nothing but damage how dynamic supports used to be. Forcing the role to be all about himself for the longest damn time and then forcing Riot to change so much about it to give other champs a chance to fight him did nothing good for the role. Supports didn't snowball the game anywhere near like you think they did, and they sure as hell don't know when bot lane just gets insta-deleted by any competent mid/jungle. Now it doesn't take game knowledge to get ahead as a support, that's what you had to have in the past. Now it takes mechanics, just like every other role in the game, it has lost what made it unique in that it got ahead in a different way. In the past as a support if you where strategically sound and mechanically weak as a support you would still carry, now you could be the next Sun Tzu but if you don't have very damn good mechanics it isn't going to mean a damn thing. It's not living in the past to think a game that was born in real time strategy games and inherited much of their core design should give 1 slot the ability to focus on exactly that. It's common freaking sense as it is literally what is at the heart of the game. It's ignorance of this basic fact that leads to nonsense like what you have been presenting, and leads you to think that supports in the past where nothing but wardbots. You are the very definition of clueless.
> [{quoted}](name=Martyrofsand,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vi4slOnX,comment-id=000200010002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-25T23:36:32.361+0000) > > Supports had a dynamic role in the game, but unlike the other 4 positions it wasn't a mechanical one, although you did still need some measure of mechanics. It was very much a strategic one, the support role was the shot caller, the one that when done right would ensure the team had the information they needed would alert their team to enemy movements and would get their team to actually follow through on objectives. You have the clueless idea that when one team starts warding there is nothing the enemy team could do. > > This is straight up bullshit of the highest degree. 400 oracles made counter warding and clearing your jungle very easy, 125 Pink wards made it possible to keep key places cleared out and safe. The idea that there was nothing the losing team could do hold no water when the warding game was that cheap, just because you refuse to acknowledge that doesn't change that fact, and there was absolutely nothing toxic about it other than the players who couldn't be bothered, but that's the players being toxic not the mechanic itself. > > No supports do not have a dynamic presence right now they have a static one. They bring additional damage, or they bring another mini-tank. That is not dynamic, and Thresh did nothing but damage how dynamic supports used to be. Forcing the role to be all about himself for the longest damn time and then forcing Riot to change so much about it to give other champs a chance to fight him did nothing good for the role. > > Supports didn't snowball the game anywhere near like you think they did, and they sure as hell don't know when bot lane just gets insta-deleted by any competent mid/jungle. Now it doesn't take game knowledge to get ahead as a support, that's what you had to have in the past. Now it takes mechanics, just like every other role in the game, it has lost what made it unique in that it got ahead in a different way. In the past as a support if you where strategically sound and mechanically weak as a support you would still carry, now you could be the next Sun Tzu but if you don't have very damn good mechanics it isn't going to mean a damn thing. > > It's not living in the past to think a game that was born in real time strategy games and inherited much of their core design should give 1 slot the ability to focus on exactly that. It's common freaking sense as it is literally what is at the heart of the game. It's ignorance of this basic fact that leads to nonsense like what you have been presenting, and leads you to think that supports in the past where nothing but wardbots. > > You are the very definition of clueless. I'm not going to pretend I know a ton about season 3... ... But those aren't my words. Those are the words of pros and higher elo players who I learned from in that time. Season 3 supports were wardbots. Nothing more and nothing less. Just look at the friggin' itemization. They snowballed games where their jg or mid got a lead to the point there wasn't any coming back. People were tired of that. And you want to know why you could be mechanically weak back then? It's because people were incompetent when it came to supporting. My support main friend went from Silver to Plat in Season 2 and you wanna know what he told me? "Yeah I just realized, 'Oh, I can control this lane and harass their laner.' and I climbed." Being a support was that much of a joke that once you actually applied mechanics and fought in lane you jumped from Silver to Plat. Just because you didn't NEED the mechanics to hit Gold didn't mean that they didn't exist. It just meant that a lot of supports were mechanically incompetent because they didn't have to do anything in lane. But now gameplay is significantly tighter and so you need mechanics because you're required to be a part of your team. You're excusing lack of knowledge and insisting your feelings about what a support should do should replace actual facts. So here's some facts for you. 1. Support is the most involved it's been in a long time. Fact. 2. Everything required to be a good support back then is still required to be a good support now. The only difference is more is required from supports now because Riot took away the easiest methods to climb to a position you don't deserve and gave you more opportunities to excise your "oh so precious" game knowledge through roaming and diving rather than just afking in bot lane. Fact. 3. Up until S6 worlds, you could still be a heal-bot or utility-bot and provide to your team in a way nobody else really could. Fact. 4. I literally have a Diamond 1 and another D1 support main telling me right now support is more impactful and much better than it was years ago. Fact. I can tell one of them to post here if you'd like. Continue calling me clueless, please. I'm just echoing what guys who are 1000x better than you or I will ever be at support are saying. Oh and PS, one just said that warding is more strategic now than it was before.
: 1--Snowballing happens anytime, the reality is in seasons in which we had the ability to ward far more than we do now we saw many more come backs and close games as all elos. Stalling the game out is much more likely when you know how the enemy is moving and can make judgment calls on how to maneuver around and stay a step ahead of them. Being able to ward enmass gave you that ability, it's not a coincidence that S2 was a fairly slow season when mass warding was a huge deal, and then snowballing has progressively gotten worse and worse as ward limits got placed, supports got turned into a 5 damage dealer, so and so forth. The changes have made snowballing worse not better. 2--Except the decision making comes from identifying the situation you are in and being able to select the best aura for the best situation. Some like Aegis that where so strong that everyone would always want them was bad design, WoTA/Frozen Heart/Starks on the other hand where actually very well design as they where situational but picking them up in the correct situation made them very beneficial. In a good strategy game there are more decisions to make that just "do I activate this ability now" which is literally about all there is to supports now. Supports need more situational items, and not all need to be auras but auras definitely should be an option, instead of generalist items. Aegis/Redemption are examples of generalist items that are bad design because you always buy it no matter what, Starks/WoTA/Banner of Command on the other hand are actually good design because they are situational but powerful if you can identify when they are good and get them soon enough. 3--Trying to fight the inevitable just to end up breaking the game as keystones have done many times isn't something I would be proud of. That's like saying you should give someone credit for bashing their head against the wall because their brain didn't get damaged when their skull cracked. 4--You would be wrong, Sona in terms of supports was the highest played champ because of the combo of healing/poke with Soraka following behind at a close 2, mainly because the two could make bot lane a farm lane while still being strong late game for their utility. Janna was picked as a counter to Leona/Blitz bot lanes, or on the rare occasion the enemy team didn't have a bunch of tanks since assassins back then where admittedly weak. 5--Actually it is a little off, the top three supports where Annie/Thresh/Leona, with Morgana as the anti-meta pick vs Thresh/Leo and Zyra started coming back hard at the later stages. Braum saw some play in specific comps, mostly with Yasuo else where for double walls, and the rest where rather scarce in terms of high level play. Did they see some play? Sure but was their level of play comparable to the others? Not even close. 6--https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRKz82v5JQY If you really believe there is no strategic value to post lane warding you are clueless, when everyone is roaming and teams are rotating that is when warding becomes the most critical. Supports already participates in team fights in a very dynamic way hell what's more dynamic "I'm gonna throw out as much damage as I can" or "I'm going to safe x ability to counter y dive, preempt X on my teammate to allow them to do Y" etc etc. When all you do is turn the support roll into a mini-tank or mini-AP mage you have actually stripped them of the dynamic element of who they where, you have instead made it a batter of do they tank enough damage or deal enough damage. We have 4 roles that do that already, I want back the 1 role that actually gave a damn about using utility at the right time, and taking advantage of the strategic elements of the game. In effective I'm saying "I want to eat fried chicken instead of a damn hamburger everyday" meanwhile you are saying "you will eat hamburger every damn day and be happy with it." Support used to be different, a unique role, that took control of a game is a very different way then any other position. It wasn't popular and was often very misunderstood by people who simply bitched they didn't do enough damage or buy enough items or blah blah blah. Your responses have shown the same ignorance that has gotten the role butchered in the first place. You act like scouting and warding has no strategic value outside of laning, you act like having to identify team comps, and appropriate situational items was brainless, while defending generalist garbage that you just buy every game because it's that damn good. You are like the idiot healers in Legion WoW now who keep asking "what's the best heal for the situation, oh right this 1 healer is better so I'll just spam it" and I want to be like the healers of BC WoW who asked "him the tank is at X hp, the DPS is fine, I can sit back and regen knowing Y ability is going to hit in so many seconds." Yeah screw your dumbed down "game plays itself for you" nonsense I want to actually have to think when I play again.
> [{quoted}](name=Martyrofsand,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vi4slOnX,comment-id=0002000100020000000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-25T22:26:41.058+0000) > > 6--https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRKz82v5JQY > > If you really believe there is no strategic value to post lane warding you are clueless, when everyone is roaming and teams are rotating that is when warding becomes the most critical. Supports already participates in team fights in a very dynamic way hell what's more dynamic "I'm gonna throw out as much damage as I can" or "I'm going to safe x ability to counter y dive, preempt X on my teammate to allow them to do Y" etc etc. When all you do is turn the support roll into a mini-tank or mini-AP mage you have actually stripped them of the dynamic element of who they where, you have instead made it a batter of do they tank enough damage or deal enough damage. We have 4 roles that do that already, I want back the 1 role that actually gave a damn about using utility at the right time, and taking advantage of the strategic elements of the game. In effective I'm saying "I want to eat fried chicken instead of a damn hamburger everyday" meanwhile you are saying "you will eat hamburger every damn day and be happy with it." > > > Support used to be different, a unique role, that took control of a game is a very different way then any other position. It wasn't popular and was often very misunderstood by people who simply bitched they didn't do enough damage or buy enough items or blah blah blah. Your responses have shown the same ignorance that has gotten the role butchered in the first place. You act like scouting and warding has no strategic value outside of laning, you act like having to identify team comps, and appropriate situational items was brainless, while defending generalist garbage that you just buy every game because it's that damn good. You are like the idiot healers in Legion WoW now who keep asking "what's the best heal for the situation, oh right this 1 healer is better so I'll just spam it" and I want to be like the healers of BC WoW who asked "him the tank is at X hp, the DPS is fine, I can sit back and regen knowing Y ability is going to hit in so many seconds." Yeah screw your dumbed down "game plays itself for you" nonsense I want to actually have to think when I play again. Okay I get where you stand now. You think that having a massive amount of wards and choking out the enemy team is a better role than having a dynamic presence in the game. So basically you were where i was in season 4 when I thought that Ahri was balanced with DFG after her nerf because I at least had to land Charm. Having a toxic mechanic that chokes out enemy teams without the ability to do something back isn't good design or gameplay. Mass warding isn't STRATEGIC. It's brainless and it prevents comebacks because the jungler can't step foot in his jungle without being seen. Limited vision offers decision-making because you can only ward up so many places, allowing you to think about what spots need it the most. On top of that supports actually have a dynamic presence right now. That's what Thresh added to the role. That's what Redemption added. You can bitch all you want that people will only rush the same items over and over again but let's be fucking honest it wasn't any better when you went HoG + Philo Stone into Aegis (after Sightstone of course). I don't like Zyra, Malz, or Brand as much as anyone but to think that supports are in a shit spot because they don't snowball games as hard as easily then I'm sorry but you're living in the past. Because here's the thing; it takes competence and use of game knowledge to get ahead as a support now, and you have more potential impact the game than you did before. But because it's not nearly as lazy or simple as just tossing down wards and talking about how skilled you are at it, it's now, "brainless and lacking in strategy." So you know what? Call me ignorant all you want but i'd rather have champions that have impact on the game outside of their ability to ward than ones that see their midlaner won lane so now they can completely dick an enemy team just by existing and doing their most basic job.
: demoted for the 4th time, the cycle is neverending
You would probably get a chat restriction or a ban. And you can bitch about it being unfair all you like, but they can't help that they're bad. You can keep from being toxic.
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: CNN, NY Times, BBC, Buzzfeed, and others were banned from a White House Press Briefing
Idk about those other sources but what the fuck was BuzzFeed doing there in the first place?
: > [{quoted}](name=Silvanduin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vi4slOnX,comment-id=0002000100020000,timestamp=2017-02-25T06:14:14.523+0000) > > 1. Vision was a heavy snowball mechanic that was only abused by the highest echelons of supports. Like, it just pushed advantages and made it hard for the enemy to react in that form and the role was still thankless as all hell. > > 2. Let's be honest, Riot either changed aura items to be strong active items or they were being abused by non-supports. Who honestly got WotA besides Vlad (excluding cases where the support bought it to stack with Vlad so he could go full raid boss)? Also, Aegis' upgrade, Locket, shields for significantly more, but it's on an active requiring you to be paying attention to the game. Frozen Heart still remains in aura form. > > 3. I'll chalk up one cookie cutter build -> another as a neutral change of opinion. > > 4. It was bound to happen eventually. Roles simply got more evaluated performances and the strongest champions were selected. I don't know why you think support was exempt from people wanting to pick the best support for the role. > > 5. No if that was true then supports would've died season 6, but that's not true since Karma, Nami, and tank supports all had a field day at points in season 6. > > 6. Ward bitch was the least liked role by a gigantic margin, to the degree if you were last pick you were almost automatically relegated support, but if you think that's what we need to go back to you're entitled to your wrong opinion and I will respect that. 1--It was a snowball mechanic, it was also a come back mechanic as good wards could help you slow down a game, avoid getting caught in rotation, and help you make picks to come back. It worked both ways, but people choose to ignore that. 2--As for who bought WoTA, Vlad/Fiddle/Cassio all immediately come to mind, and even if you didn't have them on your team but instead simply had a heavy AP team, say Diana jungle, AP mid, Kennen top, buying WoTA as a support that game would still be reasonably valuable for that team comp. If we are honest the actives "aura" idea that they try with Locket and even Sona doesn't even come close to old school auras for one very simple reason. Old school auras where stats, stats scale not just with level but with ruins, masteries, and champions kits. Getting a blanket shield that only scales with your under leveled support will never come close to scratching that. 3--I would agree, my only point in stating it was to point out the futility of what Riot wanted to do, IE change cookie cutter builds and yet they still just made cookie cutter builds. 4--This didn't happen because "roles got more evaluated performances" this happened because Riot released a champion with a massively overloaded kit that could create picks, provide massive peeling, create zones of control for his team to fight around, and even engage if need be. In the past supports where strong but not overloaded, since then Riot has been steadily changing that, or just letting AP mages have their field day. 5--S6 saw Zyra/Annie/Morgana as the three biggest supports, and classifying Karma as a support is being generous as her unfocused kit sees her going to damn near every lane now a days. Tanks where seen to some degree as well if they could manage the three I stated above, which usually meant Braum/Thresh, or a jungler turned support/top laner Naut also seeing play as well. The idea that traditional supports like the ones I mentioned earlier not getting pushed out by this simply holds no water, it's been the meta for a long time now. 6--Cool it doesn't mean a damn thing if dropping a ton of wards was "the least like roll" when you have 4 other rolls available to play, and the "last pick" argument holds zero water now that you can pick what you want before even getting into the lobby. You are entitled to your wrong opinion but the idea that you are going to limit a persons strategic ability in a game based around strategy is the wrong opinion. Strategy games need mechanics that allow people to be able to gain the information they need to make plays, the amount of information you can gain about your opponents should be unlimited if you put in the effort and work for it, this is basic strategy 101. When Riot limited that they signal that they no longer cared about the strategy of the game, and they have only continued to show it by focusing pushing the game toward mechanics based gameplay over strategic based gameplay.
> [{quoted}](name=Martyrofsand,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vi4slOnX,comment-id=00020001000200000000,timestamp=2017-02-25T07:20:13.771+0000) > >snip 1. Snowballing that heavily isn't fun. We've been over this a million times. That's why this current meta is a massive pain in the ass. Snowballing happens but trying to leave room for comebacks is crucial and having one side have complete vision while the other struggles leaves no strategic value because, well, what is the strategy? Ward as much as possible. Everywhere. Doing the same thing to win every single game is not strategy. It adds no inherent decision-making to what you do. 2. Speaking of no inherent decision-making, auras provided none of that. Congrats you had stats and now your team has stats. The difference between Locket now and Aegis then is that when everyone rushes Locket, they have a decision when to pop it for maximum effect. When everyone rushed Aegis back then, congrats you have more stats and snowball your advantage. Same thing as S3's "whichever AD finishes BT first autowins the lane and very likely wins the game." 3. Riot made keystones for a more dynamic game. While that hasn't worked yet at least give them props for trying. 4. The most played champion in Season 2 was Janna, I believe. It was because she had massive MS with Mobis and could just drop millions of wards with almost no chance of getting caught. There have been metas before, don't kid yourself into thinking that this all became a thing because of Thresh. 5. Uh...? That's bullshit. There was so so SO many supports in Season 6 and that didn't end until right at the very end when Zyra and MF were being picked. Before then tank supports were dominant (Taric, Alistar, Trundle, Naut, Kench, etc.) and you would see plenty Nami and Karma. 6. There. Was. No. Strategic. Value. To. Post. Lane. Warding. Riot gave you guys itemization so that you could roam, allowed you to participate in teamfights as a very dynamic member of the team even if you didn't pick Janna. They made the role likable so even if you got stuck in support you would at least have a decent time and feel like an actual member of the team rather than being a wardbot. And you think that their strategic niche was removed because they couldn't ward the entire jungle anymore. Smh. There is no strategic value if that's what's been done 100% of the time and if you're not capable of it because your team fell behind, you autolost. That's like saying if you play Mage on Hearthstone and you add Antonidas to your deck, that's strategy. That's no strategy whatsoever. That's what you HAVE TO ADD to not get gimped and fall off in the late-game. That's why they tried not only limiting it but enforcing that vision is a team thing. So that people on both sides could make catches and get back into the game and to make sure the game isn't over just because one team's support is competent and the other isn't. And in return they gave you a significantly more enjoyable role with many more toys, and right now they're working so that you get your precious supports back.
: > [{quoted}](name=Silvanduin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vi4slOnX,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2017-02-24T21:40:28.248+0000) > I remember when supports only built mobi boots and stacked wards. > > And then Riot came in and gave them items to add difficult decision-making > > and Keystones that make the role require less skill > > and then added a bunch of supports that were so thematically interesting traditional supports couldn't compete > > and then they gave them ass-loads of gold generation so that they had even more itemization open causing far more difficult decisions. > > We need to go back to wards and mobi boots. It was a simpler time when Riot cared about the state of supports. 1--Back when supports, or really any player than felt like it, could take over the strategic element for his team by securing vision, keeping their team informed and locking the enemy team out of vision. So glad riot took that way from us. /sarcasm 2--No riot took away decision making by making our ability to gain useful knowledge about the enemy team dependent on our team not being clueless dumbasses that actually know how to use a trinket. Oh and they also took away/nerfed all aura items, Starks/Aegis/WoTA/Forzen Heart, that supports could want to buy for their team and have instead left us with buying Sightstone/Redemption/gold item core which is what most supports are able to afford by the 20-30 minute time frame the game ends in. 3--The keystones, and in general mastery changes as a whole, have been pretty stupid. Riot wanted to stop cookie cutter crap and all they did was trade one cookie for another. 4--They added Thresh, who completely redefined bot lane as Thresh and whoever could compete with Thresh, which took us away from a support set up that saw Sona/Raka/Leona/Janna/Nunu/Blitz/Lulu/Alistar, you know a variety of champions to play in the roll that could all be viable based on comp and what your opponents played. Once Thresh dropped we have instead been stuck with a Trifecta meta for support that is often Thresh/someone that beats thresh/someone that loses to thresh but beats what beats thresh. 5--And this was the death of actual supports. Riot increased gold generation and people realize "hey I can run an AP bot lane and have enough gold to get items to hurt, and suddenly we see Zyra/Malz/Brand/Vel/Xerath, etc etc none of which belong in bot lane as a support. Riot decided to go full retard and ignore the fact that the purpose of a support was to be strong early game to keep their carry safe while packing enough utility to be relevant WITHOUT GOLD. This wasn't some quirk of the game or happen stance it was the very reason all the above champs I mentioned became supports when the meta developed. They where the champs that could abuse people early while still having enough utility to have an impact late game. No we have strong supports who nuke the lane early and then nuke teams late and it's absolutely stupid. 6--I feel like you are being sarcastic, although I hope your not, because the truth is yes this is exactly what we need to go back to. Back before each team had 5 damage threats, back to when 1 person could decide the carry a game via strategic planning instead of having to be mechanics gods, back to when there was actually strategy IN A FREAKING GAME THAT WAS BORN OUT OF A REAL TIME STRATEGY GAME!!!! Riot has strayed so far from the substance of what made league a great game to begin with instead going for an all flash no substance set up. It's pathetic and it needs to die in a fire. /rant over.
> [{quoted}](name=Martyrofsand,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vi4slOnX,comment-id=000200010002,timestamp=2017-02-24T23:28:01.183+0000) > >snip 1. Vision was a heavy snowball mechanic that was only abused by the highest echelons of supports. Like, it just pushed advantages and made it hard for the enemy to react in that form and the role was still thankless as all hell. 2. Let's be honest, Riot either changed aura items to be strong active items or they were being abused by non-supports. Who honestly got WotA besides Vlad (excluding cases where the support bought it to stack with Vlad so he could go full raid boss)? Also, Aegis' upgrade, Locket, shields for significantly more, but it's on an active requiring you to be paying attention to the game. Frozen Heart still remains in aura form. 3. I'll chalk up one cookie cutter build -> another as a neutral change of opinion. 4. It was bound to happen eventually. Roles simply got more evaluated performances and the strongest champions were selected. I don't know why you think support was exempt from people wanting to pick the best support for the role. 5. No if that was true then supports would've died season 6, but that's not true since Karma, Nami, and tank supports all had a field day at points in season 6. 6. Ward bitch was the least liked role by a gigantic margin, to the degree if you were last pick you were almost automatically relegated support, but if you think that's what we need to go back to you're entitled to your wrong opinion and I will respect that.
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Silvanduin

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