Rioter Comments
: Why doesn't rift scuttler show the vision radius
that's part of the skill with vision, same as with wards having blind spots in some areas if not placed well, same as turret ranges etc.
Rioter Comments
: Experiment: Community Patch Notes
I like the idea of this but I hope Riot remember that perception and reality are often at odds. Judging by my experience, a lot of champions would be totally gutted if the community got to decide. This would go way beyond objective balance and fairness. It would make those champions unplayable. I'm talking about stuff like Zoe. Anyway, for a start, I'd add 3000 HP to baron now that it does much less damage and 1500 HP to turrets. This would indirectly make ADCs more useful even without changes but the main problem is that strategic play feels lacking now and the leads just snowball out of control. Objectives that should feel difficult and rewarding are not. Turrets feel like paper and the lead tends to be much more about gold than getting a key turret or territory.
SirPurrr (NA)
: Variance Is SO HIGH That League Feels Less Like a Skill Game Now
I don't care about a solidified meta. I just want a lower variance game. I don't want to be dealt a free win or a free loss.
: Early external data on Taliyah seems to be that the nerf in 8.12 was pretty impactful, and she's now in a pretty reasonable (though still strong) spot. Will probably wait and see how she shakes out in pro once the nerfs hit there, assuming she is no longer out of line in solo Q as the data seems to indicate thus far.
> [{quoted}](name=RiotMadnessHeroo,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=YojVbzPu,comment-id=002b0001,timestamp=2018-06-14T17:43:39.783+0000) > > Early external data on Taliyah seems to be that the nerf in 8.12 was pretty impactful, and she's now in a pretty reasonable (though still strong) spot. Will probably wait and see how she shakes out in pro once the nerfs hit there, assuming she is no longer out of line in solo Q as the data seems to indicate thus far. People know she's busted now and she's often banned so you're having a lot more inexperienced Taliyah's dragging the win rate down. I doubt it's the nerf.
Rioter Comments
: Im diamond in EUW, Ziggs is not good in ANY elo.
> [{quoted}](name=BïtterBlossom,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=bz0HUP5U,comment-id=005e00000000,timestamp=2018-06-14T17:19:12.704+0000) > > Im diamond in EUW, Ziggs is not good in ANY elo. he seems mediocre at every ELO below Diamond and actually bad at Diamond+ what do you think he needs?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 14
JG better not get a beating again. I also shouldn't be penalized for taking lane minions. That's so artificial and over the top while restricting even normal strategies mid-late game like split pushing. The fact that you guys even can consider these ideas scares me because it tells me that you're dangerously close to disaster. The only problematic funneling strategy right now is really Yi-Taric. I might not even bother playing any more this season if jg gets changed yet again. I'd be OK with a full revert though. I don't like the randomized scuttler meta anyway.
: Censorship of the word Testicles
Censorship is awful and it extends way beyond that in this game.
Rioter Comments
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: Dopa on mid lane: "Mid lane is so limited"
this is even more true for jg pick shit like Ekko and you'll get absolutely obliterated by a competent graves, xin, kha early and in graves' case, even outscaled massively even outside of those, stuff like udyr, shyvana and yi will just powerfarm so much faster than non-meta picks that they can't compete + will be lower HP while clearing
: It is **okay** if there is proper counterplay and people simply are not adapting quickly. If there is not enough counterplay then it either signals a meta shift (aka everyone starts doing it) or it is unhealthy. Considering the amount of champions that would be pushed out by it becoming meta I think it's safe to say if it doesn't have real counterplay it is unhealthy. Now we just need to figure out whether or not there is an effective way to play against this strategy.
> [{quoted}](name=redniwediS,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aM3QemWB,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-06-10T23:23:50.516+0000) > > It is **okay** if there is proper counterplay and people simply are not adapting quickly. If there is not enough counterplay then it either signals a meta shift (aka everyone starts doing it) or it is unhealthy. > > Considering the amount of champions that would be pushed out by it becoming meta I think it's safe to say if it doesn't have real counterplay it is unhealthy. Now we just need to figure out whether or not there is an effective way to play against this strategy. you're wrong, even Dopa loses to this in top 10 challenger CN server and it has a nearly 60% win rate in plat + too there is absolutely not sufficient counterplay... they hard push the wave on cd and scale automatically... you can only coinflip a hard winning bot top and end before 30... only chance
Meddler (NA)
: Not certain yet, we're still talking about whether now's the time to prioritize some larger ability work, or whether we should do some power compensation now with ability adjustments later in the year. Will let you know once we've got a certain answer on that. Larger work whenever it happens will likely be around the same amount of change as the Rengar and LeBlanc changes earlier in the year.
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=2tsZxqEF,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-06-08T15:39:04.758+0000) > > Not certain yet, we're still talking about whether now's the time to prioritize some larger ability work, or whether we should do some power compensation now with ability adjustments later in the year. Will let you know once we've got a certain answer on that. Larger work whenever it happens will likely be around the same amount of change as the Rengar and LeBlanc changes earlier in the year. Where's that AS compensation for Ekko? He's really bad JG still if you don't RNG a better team. That's I think literally the only reason his win rate isn't awful (besides how many mains play him). He gets destroyed even by an Eve 1v1 early. Since most Ekko's main mid primary, when they get autofilled or secondary jg, their teams are just better with more people on their roles. His mid game is decent but it doesn't matter because of how exploitable he is and his late game is absolute dog shit for how weak his early is. I like him being a scaling champion but he needs to scale past mid game too.
Ratpie (NA)
: No. We actually need Riot to stop doing across the board changes. While some champs are OP, some are struggling heavily. There just needs to be tweaks to certain small groups or individual champs. These nerf all mana users, or nerf all damage don't apply equally to all champs. It is more about reducing certain champs ability to snowball really early. That needs a scalpel, not a machete.
> [{quoted}](name=Ratpie,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EifXYnwy,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-06-10T13:39:26.964+0000) > > No. We actually need Riot to stop doing across the board changes. While some champs are OP, some are struggling heavily. There just needs to be tweaks to certain small groups or individual champs. These nerf all mana users, or nerf all damage don't apply equally to all champs. It is more about reducing certain champs ability to snowball really early. That needs a scalpel, not a machete. JG is still incredibly terrible right now. You play some of the S/A tier or you can't exist in the game. The scuttler changes only make this worse and the randomness factor reduces the ability to plan/skill.
FNC Jinx (NA)
: The game broke
Zoe is incredibly anti-fun and broken design, even if her win rate is reasonable don't know how they thought that was a good idea but yet they had a problem with AP Kog being viable
P00PD1CK (EUW)
: You can't just treat the whole year like it's the preseason - you need to take more time to balance.
game lost a bit of its soul with these serious reworks like GP being evil now and so on same with the client... felt warm and at home... now impersonal and generic (also terrible usability wise... such as having to click again to make the chat bigger or scroll) they need to get back that touch that makes things feel fun and special instead of just going on stupid trends a lot is still good but a lot was better in terms of the impression it left even if not execution I also feel that I'm wasting my time trying to understand the game, theorycraft etc. because they make it useless so fast
Rioter Comments
needHymn (NA)
: He needed buffs, and not just because people don't know how to play him yet. You just don't have access to the kind of extensive data that Riot is seeing. But I'm seeing similar to what Riot sees, and I can confirm that Pyke needs a buff.
> [{quoted}](name=needHymn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IdHTEpf7,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-08T02:25:52.009+0000) > > He needed buffs, and not just because people don't know how to play him yet. You just don't have access to the kind of extensive data that Riot is seeing. But I'm seeing similar to what Riot sees, and I can confirm that Pyke needs a buff. play vs pyke mains in plat+ and say that with a straight face
Rioter Comments
: "4 Fun" smurfing needs to be Perma-Bannable.
This isn't about smurfing, this is about trolls. What you described could apply to smurfs or not.
Rioter Comments
Cosnirak (NA)
: Comparing a single champion's win rate in such a niche way against the best champions of that class in that niche is pretty dubious to say the least. Ekko has a strong ability to punish anyone who misteps even the slightest, he's incredibly safe and mobile, and his passive does incredible damage. His Q and E both have decently low cds that scale down with rank. His overall win rate is plenty fine, especially for an assassin. He snowballs very hard and has an extremely frustrating kit to play against (at least to me), even compared to other assassins. This whole thread feels like it's just whining that your OTP isn't the top of his class rather than bringing light to a champion that is legitimately suffering. Sorry if that's harsh, but that really is what it looks like.
It's true that Ekko is safe in theory but he's still melee and gets melted in teamfights later on if he makes even the slightest mistake. His W gives a nice shield but it's only 2 seconds and if you get silenced or displaced or anything at all, you're going to get destroyed. Also, people think of his kit in the wrong way. Yes, he has abilities that can give him safety but if that's all you're doing, you're not being a good Ekko. He should be using his E and R primarily to enable aggressive plays and aggressive positioning, not to run away and save KDA. Thus, he actually has an extremely risky style when played well and that's a style that should be better supported. I love his high risk high reward play but sometimes it feels like the reward isn't as high as it should be late game. I remember flashing to try to finish off a 15% HP Mundo with my EQ and W passive only to find him barely living and me caught. I know he's not supposed to be great vs tanks but 15% HP with a "% missing HP" on W. I take that risk and blow flash to do that only to fail. Feels bad. :D To be fair though, he had Mercs and Visage as well as a healthy chunk of HP.
Rioter Comments
: Please stop Training wheels buffs.
Yeah, I think this idea is terrible. They should only add what they think improves the game long-term, not band-aid fixes or change for the sake of change. I hate the last hitting buffs too. I think this makes a mockery of a competitive game. Just let me get used to something STABLE so I don't feel my learning effort is wasted. There's nothing worse to me in this game than putting time to master something or theorycrafting some build only to find that they weren't even serious about those options or that all my effort is wasted in the next "change for the sake of change" cycle. Then, instead of balance, they'll seemingly arbitrarily make another route too powerful to the point that my build isn't even viable anymore. These forced meta shifts really hurt player trust and willingness to take the game seriously imo. What if tennis organizations changed the size of the tennis court and the type of ball every few weeks just for the sake of it? Who would want to become a tennis pro in such an environment? They wouldn't feel like they were on solid ground. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with directed change towards a clear goal and with the outcome of an improved game/more stability later but it seems like many of these changes aren't geared towards "a stable and more refined product." They're more like "let's just shake things up". If the goal was always to reach a more perfect balance state then fine, I understand that.
: PBE Chat with the Playtest Team - 8.12
Have you considered reverting the AD nerf on WW or Corki? The meta doesn't favor either of them anymore imo. WW needs level 3 and feels pretty awkward as an "early game jg" who can't level 2 contest scuttler well. If you level E 2nd instead of W, you really ruin your clear (similar if you level W first). I think the meta when WW was "good" (and literally only good in SQ... and in KR or competitive was still no problem at all) was entirely different than now. It was a really fast level 3 meta where you could quickly invade or gank top (because they never adapt) after red-blue-wolves or red-blue-gromp. I think those paths are huge for WW to really be worth picking. Now, because it's harder to snowball early off predictable level 3 top ganks, it's also harder to get Tiamat and farm properly. Corki is in a similar spot. He was nerfed hard when the meta was very different (despite never having an amazing winrate or high ban rate) and was left that way. Now his usual TF-Shiv-RFC is hugely more expensive. Also, while he has decent damage, he offers literally nothing else. No cc, no utility, just damage with some safety. It's easy to look at just the damage and safety and say "wow, so strong" but the opportunity cost is huge. Ziggs? I don't even know what to say really... just feels very weak right now and I think most of it is his squishiness but I'm not really sure. Maybe he needs a little better ratio somewhere. I think he was definitely in a worse spot than something like Anivia which also had 2x the play rate (or lux). Any thoughts on trading some of the AP on Runic back for MS? Maybe 10 AP for 5% MS or something? It seems pretty good now but I still miss it and I think raw stats incentivize laners too. What do you guys think of it so far from the very limited data? I think AP junglers are alright now because the meta is very fast so something like Yi is not likely to hit late game etc. AP junglers are generally not strong early in terms of compared to the opposing jg but have pretty good ganks (better than most ADs) and a good mid-game. I remember there used to be PBE AS changes on Shyv & Voli. What happened with that? Are they still planned or did it seem unnecessary? When can we remove the random and unfair component on scuttler? I should know where it will spawn at all times even if it isn't always in the same spot. Can't you even draw something on the ground? I think right now it's terrible. When I get the timer,I feel like I just get lucky to be on the side of the map it spawns when I get the timer (and vice versa).
: Why Nobody Likes Season 8 (Big Rant)
I still like it better than when we had DQ shoved down our throats no matter the cost to ranked integrity. This is the problem I have with Riot. They don't seem to have a backbone regarding this game. Every season they can screw the game completely in a myriad of unbelievable ways and something that seemed important all the sudden isn't (ranked integrity for example). I cannot trust them to not ruin their own game and that makes me frustrated. I want them to do a good job and then stop rehashing and randomizing shit just because they can and want it to be "fresh" no matter how bad it becomes. Fresh shit is still shit. Make only changes that truly improve the game. Don't balance for the sake of skins (is a new urgot skin coming out? what about lux with all her recent buffs? legit curious) and value fairness above all. Treat the game's competitive mode seriously! Don't consider it OK to have shit balance for 2 patches in a row etc. because you shipped half baked changes. You realize that some guy last patch who is D2 could prob get Masters just last week by abusing Xin and Graves? How is that OK? To have something that broken that distorts the ranked system be allowed for potentially 100+ games for players?!
: Hey Riot, thanks for listening to us and nerfing turrets
sometimes it feels like Riot just wants to see what they can get away with while players still play despite being unhappy with changes what jungler wants the scuttler's spawn randomized with only 1 minute warning? who thought that comebacks should be even more unlikely and you basically should autolose if your team is behind (no matter how hard you try and even if you did decently)?! it's not enough that they have a lead, but also they get countless other automatic advantages from minions and other things. it seems Riot heard "being behind and feeling like you're stuck in a lost game sucks" and thought "OK, LET'S MAKE YOU LOSE EVEN FASTER!!!" instead of "OK, let's find ways to make leads less automatic wins and give fair but reasonable ways of coming back (even shut down gold is a little unfair because in a way, the team that's ahead gets punished more for a mistake). Let's find a way to make it so games almost never feel completely lost just by virtue of being behind and getting all these undeserved advantages such as minions pushing harder." and who decided "we want no late game at all"?
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Fuck the Jungle Changes
Riot logic: jg is basically a support in competitive and no OP at all BUT our 4 laners are crying about jg since they don't think about pathing or watch the map either. top still died to 2:45 ganks after seeing the enemy jg start bot. it's super predictable and happens nearly every game successfully anyway. players are so used to Riot holding their hands that instead of adapting and learning, their first reaction is to whine. THUS, Riot thinks, damn ranked integrity and fairness, let's ruin jg so that we make 80% of our player base happier at the cost of 20% that we throw under the bus. ;D I'm exaggerating but basically the whining will be 4-1 against jg every season no matter what state the role is in.
SirPurrr (NA)
: Op.GG and Loss Prevented
they should improve their API so loss prevented isn't recorded
: The reasons for early game snowball: -Taric + Yi (call it support juggernaut from 3v3) -Jungle lvl 2 ganks
> [{quoted}](name=ShinkoMinori,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=EQ6VnjTH,comment-id=0051,timestamp=2018-05-30T18:21:04.615+0000) > > The reasons for early game snowball: > > -Taric + Yi (call it support juggernaut from 3v3) > -Jungle lvl 2 ganks They nerfed jungle into the ground and it's not a role that functions well without early game influence. That's where a lot of the jungling skill lies. Their changes simply killed off everything but the top tier junglers. Now, a jungler basically has to be good level 2 to be worth picking (preferably with CC for the scuttler). If a jg is strong early but not strong level 2, such as WW who needs level 3, they are still not that good. Even when you play jungle this patch and pick a top tier champion, it feels so much less interesting. The fun aspect of jungle was exactly getting a fast level 3 with pathing based on where you want to gank/invade and not about scuttler or some other external thing. Jungle was always about early game influence and using your game knowledge and prediction ability to impact the game. With the way jg is now, predicting paths is itself far less viable. There are many starts and so you can't use superior prediction skill as much as before. You're also weak as shit early and will be level 4 to lanes being 6. I can't hold a lane without fearing death. You can't even do scuttler if the enemy lanes have priority. It feels like playing the role handcuffed. Jungle wasn't even OP or you'd have seen a lot more carry junglers in competitive. Instead, jungling in competitive is basically another support role. The issue was not with jg being too strong, it was with laners failing to adapt. How many times does top have to die to a 2:45 gank after jg started bot to learn that? Riot probably did a quick calculation "there are 4 laners and only 1 jg. if we ruin the jg role and experience but make the 4 others happier, it's better for the game satisfaction." I think this is really not good if you want a competitive game. It's very shortsighted. You have to value fairness above all. You're losing trust making such changes. I want a fair game more than I want to just win or do well in lane. The rng scuttler spawn with only a minute warning is yet another slap in the face for junglers. I don't mind the scuttler spawn varying but you can't do that with only a minute to go. Nearly 8 full seasons of jg getting level 3 off 3 camps and now you've decided to randomly "innovate' mid season? I'm sure you can't seriously think that jg deserved these changes. You just want to appease the masses instead of doing what's right.
Xyltin (EUW)
: With the recent videos of Scarra and his opinion about Runes I wanted to ask you what you think about it (possibly removing runes and how dmg on runes is higher while defensive power isn't or at least you have less options). From what we see it seems that one Keystone will nearly always be too optimal for a champ that we will never see a good diversity except for some niche cases. But I think the smaller runes alone actually do work decently. How about removing the stats and moving them into each champ and removing keystones and adding some of that power into the smaller runes?
> [{quoted}](name=Xyltin,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=EQ6VnjTH,comment-id=000500000001,timestamp=2018-05-30T16:53:46.007+0000) > > With the recent videos of Scarra and his opinion about Runes I wanted to ask you what you think about it (possibly removing runes and how dmg on runes is higher while defensive power isn't or at least you have less options). > > From what we see it seems that one Keystone will nearly always be too optimal for a champ that we will never see a good diversity except for some niche cases. But I think the smaller runes alone actually do work decently. How about removing the stats and moving them into each champ and removing keystones and adding some of that power into the smaller runes? I think Scarra is right. runes/masteries always become overly champ specific and then are just pointless gimmicks that the game's balanced around. the strongest runes then determine the meta of what champs to pick. the basic stat runes like AD Q, MS quints, attack speed marks, armor, mr etc. were actually more about matchups and style than the new system in most cases. anyway, it's not too bad now but I don't think hey add enough to justify the balance headaches created. without runes and masteries, probably more choice would be moved to itemization.
Gurdi (EUW)
: > One of the challenges there will be managing both an increase in solo carry potential (another goal) with reducing early game snowball, given things that do one will often clash with the other. I would really like to get more information on how you guys want to increase solo carry potential with respect to snowballing being tightly linked to that in the current system. Are you looking for champion, items or other game mechanic changes to increase solo carry potential while reducing snowballing?
> [{quoted}](name=Gurdi,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=EQ6VnjTH,comment-id=0023,timestamp=2018-05-30T16:32:46.170+0000) > > I would really like to get more information on how you guys want to increase solo carry potential with respect to snowballing being tightly linked to that in the current system. Are you looking for champion, items or other game mechanic changes to increase solo carry potential while reducing snowballing? I was optimistic about the shut down gold but it's often pretty random so it seems to just disproportionately favor kits with more frequent damage ticks. I really hope they fix the atrocious rng scuttler design. I don't want rng elements in jg and it's hard to give a shit about this game when seeing such absurdly terrible decisions in a competitive "strategy" game. One minute is not enough to properly path to scuttler or plan anything. I should know its spawn location at all times even if it alternates randomly. It can be marked on the ground like in the dragon pit. The more I see changes like this, the more I realize that the danger in Riot ruining their own game is so high that they probably need to slow down. The game is only usually good for 3 months in the year and S4 felt way more fun than this (the season with camp smites was cool too).
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 30
if champions are too squishy and fights end very fast, there's less skill expression longer fights make the class differences more obvious (poke vs dps, vs tank etc.) and lead to less scared gameplay/more skirmishing because you don't instadie
: I just won as Udyr jg and it makes me want to quit LoL.
the jg changes shook my confidence in Riot's understanding of their own game and make me worry about the league's future
Rioter Comments
YourQQ (NA)
: You also can't approximate timers because it's random. For buffs and camps, I don't need the timer because I generally know when they'll spawn from experience. It feels so gimmicky. It makes the game worse for sure.
> [{quoted}](name=YourQQ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WzGy3v6P,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-19T01:14:37.987+0000) > > You also can't approximate timers because it's random. For buffs and camps, I don't need the timer because I generally know when they'll spawn from experience. It feels so gimmicky. It makes the game worse for sure. It would be better if it at least alternated sides. Random is dumb and doesn't feel good. I don't want to RNG to win. It stresses me out and that's the opposite of fun. I don't even learn anything from that. I can imagine the coaching video now "based on my RNG experience, after 3 scuttlers bot, top feels like the right intelligent pathing decision! Oops guys, we dice rolled wrong. " Jungling's supposed to be a strategic role and this just reduces that. Maybe they want players who jungle cluelessly to by chance be on the right side of where the scuttler spawns. Most jungler mains don't and taking skill away from the game makes me less interested in investing time to understand it. The other thing is that the more skill there is in the game as a whole, the more chance you have to play something you like which isn't good and still do well. Now it's becoming more and more about picking meta roflstomp champs to win. Subtle strategy is reduced.
Ducasi (NA)
: **Current Meta Status and Upcoming Changes** Me and many other players would love to have your opinion on the current game status, what makes it so unpleasant to play for many players and what is the direction you are taking in order to fix this big issue. Below mine and other players thoughts on the matter and where the solutions could be. Someone told me this is not tank meta, that tanks are not op, tanks are not the problem, but adc and support strength is. I have seen several boring LCS games with adc + tanks (literally 4 other tanks) also winning by a landslide. Things like sion mid are currently meta and he has ridicolous wave clear and poking for being a tank, indeed stomping on every other champs. Cho'gath and Galio tanking lots of damage while wave clearing and returning track loads of damage for free while they can also run over games almost like they are bruisers or assassins. Tanks are omnipresent and you can play them almost in every role in every game. In solo q often people would dodge or int if there are no tanks in a team comp. And admittedly it is very difficult to win without a tank in your team. Tanks are very simple to play, you don't often get punished if found out of position and in return they have lots of sustain and do either very high base damage or % health damage to you. Respect to all other classes they have incredible strenghts and almost no weaknesses at all. Currently tanks hinder the use of any other type of champs which would contend their lane as they always outdamage, outsustain and outvalue opposite classes (conqueror doesnt change a class per se) at any stage of the game. It has happened to me to get 3 shot by a same level tank under my turret. But this would be just an example and I bet any of you had had similar experiences with tanks taking no damage even from all your abilities and in return almost one-shotting you. Is this fair? Champs that just absorb ridicolous amount of damage and that can also kill you in 3 hits, without even landing abilities at times? Is it not this the actual meaning of OP, balance and game disrupting champs? How is this fair? How is this still going on unnoticed and not considered as a big big problem? Many players do believe the number one issue with this meta and game currently is how frustrating and unrewarding to play against tanks is. The overall experience really encourages frustration and spite towards the game. One may struggle to land all abilities and juke as any other player and when one does it, if against tanks, they just turn around, 3 autos, 1 ability and you're dead. How is this a positive experience? How does this encourages us to play more and be rewarded for our capabilities? It feels like all our efforts are useless, all our commitments to learn and try to be better at this game to be just pointless, and us to be stupid to not pick tanks. Tbh we could play any boring brain dead tank clearly op right now, but it's not the example of fun for many of us. Personally I like the challenge and improving and I think this is the real motive behind most league player. I strongly think we should be rewarded for landing abilities and playing smart, instead dumb plays and characters (see aforementioned gameplay of absorbs tons of damage - land 1 ability - dead) should not. As of now many of us wholeheartedly feel playing smarter does not mean having more success, while picking meta, ie tanks, means success. If dumb plays and characters are rewarded then there is no fun, no fairness, no progression, no learning curve and no point to playing this game. I have talked with a rioter about the current satisfaction with the game and the power of assassins in general in a previous patch note. You can find the discussion at the link below. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/uHtUVgXK-patch-chat-with-the-playtest-team-85?comment=00380000 He said the issue is in general more with adcs and support than with tanks and also that powering assassins as another class would warp the meta. Yeah adc and support are strong, especially adcs given that they are simple right click champions and they reach ludacris amount of damage as the game progresses outscaling in DPS and burst any other class in the game. As a rioter said in a twitch streaming with hashinshin and irelia will carry you, an adc replaces the entire kit of an assassin late game with just 3 autos. In solo q games you get people picking adcs in almost every role, this being either top, mid, jg or even as support. Rarely they get punished and can get punished early (see fleet sustain, kiteabilty and escaping abilities), but even if they do get punished early they still remain a real humongous advantage for the team later in the game. Tbh I could be fine with that, as adcs are squishy and can be killed. Tanks on the other hand are almost impossible to kill while delivering disproportionate high amount of damage for their tankiness. Of course a good support hinders the easiness of killing adcs, but still they remain squishies and you might be able to kill them if you play smart. There is some counterplay. Against tanks there is not. Playing smart and landing abilities will get you nowhere. There is no playing around an unkillable/high damage character. What's the counterplay? Where's the balance? Where's the fairness? Where's the fun? If left unchecked assassins would warp the game. True, but arent tanks doing this exact same thing right now? Would you rather have a game warped by tanks or by assassins? Would you rather watch LCS players playing a bunch of tanks or a bunch of assassins? Which one is more fun, rewarding and encouraging sharpness of plays? To me, but I bet many of you, assassins meta would be just more fun (as any other non tank meta tbh). People in soloq might just need to get a bit more attentive and sharp in the game, which I believe it would be fair, but also welcomed as more fun and anyway way more exciting than the current farm simulator experience. I bet also more extremist squishies would love that more, as the core of a game is the same for everyone being it entertaining and pleasant but also challenging and stimulating. But of course it doesnt absolutely have to get there, what we are asking and hope here is just a bit of equilibrium, as you Riot often state being your general goal.... Tanks deserve huge reworks and nerfs. They should definitively remain tanky and with a lot of CC, which is fair and fun but it should be their only real strenghts. Totally removing the capacity to deliver high amount of damage and almost one shot people is the core issue. This is the most important and urgent problem. If this happens, I bet you'll see less tanks in the meta, without them disappearing though, as one could still pick them if they enjoy the huge utility they bring to team fights, their role, their characters and their kits in general. I bet you'll see more diversity in every role. I bet the game will be more rewarding and less frustrating. I bet you'll have more fun as you could finally play around tanks instead of them being a real "kill you/cant die" threat (instead bruisers should be the ones excelling in extended team fights and posing real damage output threats during team fights...). If this happens people will stop saying this game is dumb, trash and boring and finally enjoy playing and watching it too. Personally I have been playing this game for only 1 year and it is always been like this for me and I am sick of this meta already. It is clear that this is a really sad time for league players. The real issue is that many feel like the game is at a still point where there is no way out from this everlasting adc + tanks centered meta which seems to be ongoing since several seasons ago. More concerning is that none of the recent previous patches are targeting these urgent huge issues, while you have been doing minor changes and hitting just different classes pretty heavily too. Indeed with these upcoming very big nerfs also to mages, the only viable champs will finally, definitevely and conclusively be only tanks and adcs. Please drastically change the current tanks + adcs meta. Please give us your input and your thoughts on this very important topic. As you can see there is huge strife within the community about keeping playing and having fun at this game. {{sticker:katarina-love}}
> [{quoted}](name=Ducasi,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=teIymOoE,comment-id=0033,timestamp=2018-05-17T12:21:20.328+0000) > > **Current Meta Status and Upcoming Changes** tanks aren't even good right now... not except for a handful of cases none of the best jgs or tops are tanks and even in the support role enchanters have dominated for quite a while... at least this is the state of sq but yeah tanks in competitive will have higher value due to more competent carries
: The one season I mained urgot and had a 73% winrate over 200 games, then dropped to 66% before I stopped playing him. Certain champs at certain ranks I can get very high winrates on. But at low elo, you have to play some dumb booster-level shit to win or troll Macroplay is pretty useless in silver which is what I specialize in.
> [{quoted}](name=PlayerNo27,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F3jWGTi6,comment-id=0003000000000001,timestamp=2018-05-17T04:10:35.149+0000) > > The one season I mained urgot and had a 73% winrate over 200 games, then dropped to 66% before I stopped playing him. > Certain champs at certain ranks I can get very high winrates on. > But at low elo, you have to play some dumb booster-level shit to win or troll > > Macroplay is pretty useless in silver which is what I specialize in. Urgot is a good champ to carry those levels and much higher imo. Only ~10% of games are actually unwinnable. Boosters typically average 85% or so up till at least high gold. Your skills probably declined, the meta changed, items changed, champs changed etc. You probably have a lot of very general game knowledge but not a good way of tying it in or true expertise at a particular champion. You might also have to unlearn some things which used to be standard and good but perhaps are no longer. Eventually, I hope this game becomes much more stable so player skill accumulated over time is better rewarded.
: Time to Switch From Jungle I Guess?
Vanjie (NA)
: @Riot - The Balance is All Over The Place and Game is Not Fun
I still really enjoy it (more so after this patch). Maybe you need a break or some new champs/roles. You have some good points though. I think not that damage is too high but that players are too squishy (and turrets too). This makes skill expression harder imo. I also miss the MS on Runic but the Talisman changes are a huge boon to APs. The player behavior system seems ridiculously sensitive now too. I've totally removed myself from the social aspect of chat as a result. It's a bit sad. They need human oversight and full (but anonymized logs). The cynical person in me wonders if its' not some attempt to cash in on people making new accounts due to bans. Balance isn't too bad but it does seem like the differences between S tier and C tier are larger than in the past, especially for jg. There are some really random balance changes like the random Poppy nerfs when she was already dogshit but while this certainly makes me scratch my head, the general changes are acceptable.
: what if they got rid of celerity and added it onto phrase rush
: my main was intentionally perma'd so i wouldnt come back and my name was taken. My stats are no longer available though I have screenshots through diamond. I had this problem in season 2 and I was perma stuck bronze 5. I made a new acct, placed gold, and instantly climbed to mid plat. Following season, placed plat 4, climbed to d3, and hung around d4 following season placed plat 2, climbed to master in 300 games, first season with the tier existing. Last screenshot is my promos to Plat 1 during that season :) To prove I'm worthy of Plat 1, I must beat the top 500 in NA Names are cut out to not break the naming and shaming rule
> [{quoted}](name=PlayerNo27,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F3jWGTi6,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-05-17T03:06:38.753+0000) > > my main was intentionally perma'd so i wouldnt come back and my name was taken. My stats are no longer available though I have screenshots through diamond. > > I had this problem in season 2 and I was perma stuck bronze 5. I made a new acct, placed gold, and instantly climbed to mid plat. > > Following season, placed plat 4, climbed to d3, and hung around d4 > > following season placed plat 2, climbed to master in 300 games, first season with the tier existing > > Names are cut out to not break the naming and shaming rule souds like you have a style that creates a subtle advantage so you basically make yourself have only a 55% winrate or so even at lower ranks and thus it's hard for you to solo carry and get to your true skill fast I have many accounts and if I'm playing my main champs, I get 65-75% winrates until gold 5. placements are hit or miss though... usually 7-3 or 6-4.
needHymn (NA)
: If you quit for a long time, the matchmaker detects that and puts other people on your team who have also taken a break from the game. Riot doesn't disclose the fact that the match maker does that. But it's because nobody wants "rusty" players on their team. So the solution is, bundle up all the rusty players onto the same team, and call it "rusty team". Of course, your enemies aren't necessarily rusty so, basically Riot is feeding you to the enemy team, a free win for them. Depending on how long you quit, it can take anywhere from a few days to a few months to get out of the rust queue. You just have to keep playing enough that Riot doesn't consider you rusty anymore.
> [{quoted}](name=needHymn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F3jWGTi6,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-05-17T03:05:23.634+0000) > > If you quit for a long time, the matchmaker detects that and puts other people on your team who have also taken a break from the game. Riot doesn't disclose the fact that the match maker does that. But it's because nobody wants "rusty" players on their team. So the solution is, bundle up all the rusty players onto the same team, and call it "rusty team". Of course, your enemies aren't necessarily rusty so, basically Riot is feeding you to the enemy team, a free win for them. Depending on how long you quit, it can take anywhere from a few days to a few months to get out of the rust queue. You just have to keep playing enough that Riot doesn't consider you rusty anymore. sounds like just speculation
SirPurrr (NA)
: Scarra Kennen Smite Top, Pants Morg Smite Mid [Same Game]
: Master Tier placed in silver on new acct results
I've seen this happen to Plats too. Low ElO games are so random and they don't even listen. One totally clueless player can carry the enemy team way harder than you can sometimes. Climbing becomes much more reliable in gold though because the average competence is high enough for fewer games to be nearly unwinnable due to a newbie. Still pretty easy to win 70%+ but you can have a bad streak of 10-15. Although, you may want to adapt to picks that have more solo carry potential.
Rioter Comments
: Jungle is Worse than Ever
Scarra analysis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASRRk1fyV4Y
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SirPurrr

Level 30 (NA)
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