Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Hey Junglers, let me explain to you why top laners are always so toxic (explaining; not excusing it)
The problem is just that top ganks have a high cost. Bot lane has 2 players and thus is 40% of teams so swinging it is massive. ADCs are also pretty strong and scale much better than most tops so there's that incentive too. Due to having more players and the way ADCs itemize, it also means that winning bot nearly guarantees FB turret. On top of that we also have Dragons. Rift is comparable but spawns later.
: Yeah, he played teemo a lot, but he mostly did this “strat” when with streamers. Otherwise he would play normal teemo support. God, 95% of these people defending this idiot have only ever been ranked silver or below. I don’t know if none of you understand XP leaching, his zero communication with teammates, or the fact that literally no one in his elo wants to play with him, but man, is it telling to see who is defending him.
> [{quoted}](name=Gaijin Bengoshi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OmKBtPoY,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-20T02:58:43.797+0000) > > Yeah, he played teemo a lot, but he mostly did this “strat” when with streamers. Otherwise he would play normal teemo support. > > God, 95% of these people defending this idiot have only ever been ranked silver or below. I don’t know if none of you understand XP leaching, his zero communication with teammates, or the fact that literally no one in his elo wants to play with him, but man, is it telling to see who is defending him. Are you sure about that? I didn't watch his previous games but on his stream he said that he was doing it regardless of who he was playing with.
: lmao. This dude is Iron 3; that explains how he could think Nubrac climbed using his teemo "strat". He has a 48% winrate on it. He climbed using Leona and Amumu, and griefs with Teemo when he's in games with streamers.
> [{quoted}](name=Gaijin Bengoshi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OmKBtPoY,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-19T19:10:26.873+0000) > > lmao. This dude is Iron 3; that explains how he could think Nubrac climbed using his teemo "strat". He has a 48% winrate on it. He climbed using Leona and Amumu, and griefs with Teemo when he's in games with streamers. that's not accurate he played Teemo A LOT and certainly not just with streamers 48-52% isn't even unusual and just implies you're at the skill level you deserve you can go back and forth between those win rates based on match making itself there's always variance in win rates. it's obviously not just your own play his strategy was suboptimal but he was still trying to make it work and he wasn't taking cs unless the laner left. if we're going to ban people for suboptimal strategies then please ban Ashe support, Ezreal mid and all manner of other troll picks that people sometimes pull out in ranked. I pretty much have to dodge games like that and I'd actually have more confidence in the Teemo since he played it for hundreds of games. it may not be getting him LP but it isn't losing much either so his impact overall is pretty neutral. now, if he had a 30% win rate doing this over that many games, sure, it's clearly trolling.
: I Think I Finally Understand What it takes to Climb
this is wrong on so many levels... especially as you climb higher moreover, just attitude and solo carry mentality doesn't get you a good rank automatically in fact, it's often counterproductive in Plat+ and you may be throwing games purely because of it
: Which champs look the funniest when they miss theire ults?
Rioter Comments
: I think deadman`s giving mobility is what is what is causing the powerbudget to be taken up in that item. The speed from that item is pretty drastic / notice-able.
> [{quoted}](name=Tahminatrix ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hnIzBpQ3,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-06-18T01:21:05.336+0000) > > I think deadman`s giving mobility is what is what is causing the powerbudget to be taken up in that item. > > The speed from that item is pretty drastic / notice-able. I agree that it has an interesting and useful passive. This actually even makes it a niche pick on something like Twitch, Evelynn or Ekko. A buff doesn't have to be in stats. They could even just increase the slow duration 0.5 seconds.
: [Champion Rework Suggestion] [Game mechanics] Zilean
I love Zilean's kit exactly as it is. I see no reason why he'd need any changes. I don't like change for the sake of change and he's performing well in the meta. He's not outdated at all. In fact, he even has the occasional pro appearance (at least in NA). I don't play as much Zilean these days but I think mains would generally be annoyed by changes to a champion they already like and are doing fine with. Kit changes should be reserved more for either champions who are too difficult to balance (massive pro/SQ discrepancy like Ryze) or those whose kits are no longer relevant in the meta and where number changes simply make them too overbearing without offering a good middleground.
: Attack Move with Target Champions Only
Yeah, you can't do it and I guess that's fine since ADCs might be too easy if it were possible. The annoying thing is you can't even do player attack click with target champions only. Well, you can but you'd have to hold down 2 keys so it's incredibly awkward.
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 14
Have you guys looked into Nocturne jungle lately? He seems to be struggling. The JG XP nerfs are the main reason since his 6 is delayed but the meta being less squishy is also part of it. Any chance he can at least get his base AD nerf reverted? That seemed overkill even at that time. Not 9.12 Sylas level overkill but a tad much.
: The system does not encourage you to reconnect to a match
Unless you're gone for over ~20% of the game, it generally doesn't mark you as leaver.
: Small QoL buff for Zac
Zac needs more than this tbh. His clear is risky and slower than Sej, Amumu (not to mention carry junglers like Hecarim or Kayn). He's also unreliable and doesn't do particularly well late unless his team's good. His dueling is nonexistent early on and he'll get bullied if lanes lack prio. You can get Liandry's to help carry more but that's pretty much the only realistic damage item for him since his AP ratios are fairly weak overall. There's no stage he truly excels in and no jungle champions there are no jungle champions that he really counters either. His unique engage angles aren't enough to offset his weaknesses (even more so considering that he loses to any countergank early). Making Zac stronger early would probably help the most but there's always a risk to that considering he can snowball pretty well. I think giving him a tiny nudge early and more of a late game would probably be the way to go. As far as this post goes, I never had a problem with visual clarity for Q. Adding more would probably make it ugly and doesn't seem necessary.
Rioter Comments
Azander (NA)
: Hey Meddler, I don't really understand the 9.12 changes to Yuumi and was hoping you could give your input on it. She was released with a win rate of ~30% and was absolutely hated by a lot of the community. She gets buffed and crawls her win rate up to 46%, which is still in the bottom of the champion pool. Challengers haven't been able to break even with her either. And now she's getting nerfed? What is the rationale behind nerfing one of the statistically weakest supports in the game?
> [{quoted}](name=Azander,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=X5txM1wn,comment-id=0031,timestamp=2019-06-07T17:48:33.361+0000) > > Hey Meddler, I don't really understand the 9.12 changes to Yuumi and was hoping you could give your input on it. She was released with a win rate of ~30% and was absolutely hated by a lot of the community. She gets buffed and crawls her win rate up to 46%, which is still in the bottom of the champion pool. Challengers haven't been able to break even with her either. And now she's getting nerfed? What is the rationale behind nerfing one of the statistically weakest supports in the game? Her win rate doesn't yet reflect her power. She's overtuned in the hands of a skilled player.
Kai Guy (NA)
: Part of the issue is there's a massive amount of ignorance on the topic and players have a lot of shitty ideas about how it works. 1. Far to much faith in the system at high uncertainty. 2. Player constantly rate skill on a biases that the game does not consider remotely fking relevant. I can go way to over the top in explaining things so heads up. If you want a wall on the topic just reply asking for more details and you will get them. I really like MMR and Elo systems. I dislike Riots implementation of Duo Que and the massive # of mismatched games it makes. Its a almost constant culprit in posts like this. Thou this season Positional MM and some issues/fuck ups Riot made with Positional Ques+new Tiers are in my opinion still impacting the ladder.
> [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gnJdmE78,comment-id=000f0000,timestamp=2019-06-03T08:04:23.948+0000) > > Part of the issue is there's a massive amount of ignorance on the topic and players have a lot of shitty ideas about how it works. > 1. Far to much faith in the system at high uncertainty. > 2. Player constantly rate skill on a biases that the game does not consider remotely fking relevant. > > I can go way to over the top in explaining things so heads up. If you want a wall on the topic just reply asking for more details and you will get them. > > I really like MMR and Elo systems. > > I dislike Riots implementation of Duo Que and the massive # of mismatched games it makes. Its a almost constant culprit in posts like this. Thou this season Positional MM and some issues/fuck ups Riot made with Positional Ques+new Tiers are in my opinion still impacting the ladder. Sure, I'm interested in thoughts on the topic. Anyway, it has gotten better somewhat. I think it gives you slightly easier teams when autofilled for instance (although this does incentivize always switching if autofilled).
KazKaz (OCE)
: Damage meta is just not fun
Not even that much of a damage meta. They nerfed so many damage runes and tanks (at the very least in the jungle) are doing OK.
Onlyanna (EUW)
: Rig matchmaking please
Thing is it kind of has to be based on win/loss to avoid bias about "the correct winning strategy." There are people with awful KDAs who are good at carrying through splits and people with 5.0 KDAs who play so safe that they barely contribute to the team. Moving it from win/loss encourages stat padding rather than playing the game properly. The most they can maybe do is detect really good performance metrics and then try to pair you at a higher level to see how you perform.
: Can You Finally Fix the Matchmaking?
It truly is horrifically bad at times. They need to fix it desperately but the nature of the game (over a hundred champs with unique interactions, varying balance states and in diverse team comps.) makes it exceedingly difficult. Eventually there will be too many champions for a novice to even understand the basics of how to play against them in a reasonable time-frame. Although, I think matches get A LOT better ~high Plat and worse again at the floors like D4. Eliminating duoQ might help. Too many people duoing on lower ELO smurfs or just not getting much of a penalty because they have practiced and optimized strategies (rather than just for fun). It's no accident that tarzaned is mostly duoing when he plays on his rank 1 account. Duoing also muddies the meaning of ranked because there's no way to tell who duod to a level and who played solo. Imagine if they did this for sports like tennis and just mixed ranks. I actually got demoted recently off a game where my top went 0 4 0 (snowball matchup vs Renekton) and my bot went 0 8 0 all without ganks and just in the first 10 minutes. It's complete BS for me to be punished for such a lopsided game. My mid and I can't 2v8 the game. This was just an autoloss and such games are at least 10% of my matchmaking. Some of it just can't be helped though when players pick random champions they don't play or in match ups/comps. where they can't function. The game itself just has so much variance built in that it's almost impossible to have a fair game every time. Still, it might help to have more transparency about how their matchmaking works. Maybe the community can help and at the very least, it would quell worries about it being manipulated. Games are way too coinflip and it doesn't feel good on either side (less about climbing and more about match quality). We're all so dependent on matchmaking yet it's like a blackbox and that shouldn't be the case for a competitive game. I'd also prefer a true ELO system like before instead of these artificial abstractions. I get that it makes players grind more and makes them feel more rewarded but it comes at a cost to match quality and accuracy. A Silver 1 with 80% win rate isn't the same as a Silver 1 with 50% win rate. Worst of all, people who are stuck at the floors and may have bad MMR simply don't take it seriously anymore. They'll play random champs or just give up if they lose early. Op.gg feels necessary and so does dodging but the punishment for dodging is way too high once MMR is stabilized. -10 is a lot and so is 30 minutes. People are actually penalized for playing multiple games a day. /rant BTW: Here's an example of what I'm talking about (not from my own play): [https://imgur.com/a/uGrHPnS](https://imgur.com/a/uGrHPnS) The problem with match making is often that it thinks averaging MMRs will make a fair game. It doesn't. Averaging MMRs for each role probably gets somewhat close but just having comparable MMRs for the teams is not enough when one role is massively outmatched and creates a huge map imbalance. It's the worst for junglers though because when you're massively higher ranked than your teammates, you can't really play the role even if the enemy jungler is ranked a lot worse. Every lane is losing and under so much pressure that it snowballs into you. You get invaded, get your jg warded, can't counter invade, can't go for scuttlers, can't do anything really.
: Why does riot rework champs if they are going to make them feel entirely different to play
I still miss AP Kog being viable... I don't even play him anywhere anymore
: Warwick Q heal buff next patch is a mistake (OTP WW)
I think WW needs help in higher tier play even if he does get appropriate bugfixes. I like this change because it's fairly neutral to what builds he goes. It doesn't overly favor any.
SirPurrr (NA)
: Replays Unstable 9.10
Yeah it's kind of ridiculous to have a core feature be nonfunctional and not have it hotfixed. :( 2 weeks of an unusuable replay system is a long time.
L I N A X (EUW)
: Use a macro on a mouse button that presses both keys at the same time. then bind that mouse button to PAOC.
> [{quoted}](name=L I N A X,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wEAotcy5,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-05-21T21:10:29.363+0000) > > Use a macro on a mouse button that presses both keys at the same time. then bind that mouse button to PAOC. I don't think that's allowed. That's why I wish they had a separate key for it.
SirPurrr (NA)
: Replays Unstable 9.10
Weirdly, it seems to happen a lot more often when there's an Ekko on the team.
: Replays are constantly crashing.
Yes, it's really frustrating. This is a core feature I need for what I'm working on and also to improve. They should have far better QA testing.
: XD 'a lot of it is luck' Faker got lucky winning s3 s5 and s6 worlds and making s7 world finals? Don't forget his team in s7 was the weakest in a LONG TIME. And still Faker blamed himself for inting and losing them game 3 Soloq is clearly different but the game is the same: be good
> [{quoted}](name=LCKProPlayer2021,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XiylXxvj,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-15T20:17:25.931+0000) > > XD 'a lot of it is luck' > > Faker got lucky winning s3 s5 and s6 worlds and making s7 world finals? Don't forget his team in s7 was the weakest in a LONG TIME. > > And still Faker blamed himself for inting and losing them game 3 > > Soloq is clearly different but the game is the same: > be good Yeah, there is a lot of luck in the short-term and that will affect the speed of climbing as well as win rates. For instance, I may need 50 more games on one account to get to the same rank. Just because you can do things better doesn't change that luck exists. Faker has LESS luck in those situations than we do in SQ actually. He won't have teammates grief/afk or dc/first time etc. They practice all day with those players, have voice communication and all of them are excellent. They don't rely on a rather erratic automatic match making system whose quality varies greatly (especially off-peak hours). The closer the games and players in skill, the more your own performance matters for every detail. Meanwhile, for example, I've had a mid laner fight level 2 and chase into the side of the jungle we knew Lee was starting at. Lee gets a free 400g to start the game and then continues to snowball off this player's bad decisions. No amount of good pathing and strong play can give me an even footing. I am playing a weak early champion and cannot possibly help this player anyway. The correct move is farming up till 3 and then getting a scuttler. The enemy lanes are safe enough too and my champion has weak ganks early. Top lane gets solod. Bot lane gets solod. I've barely had the chance to clear 3 camps and it's ignorant to suggest that this is somehow my fault. It actually was not whatsoever in that particular game. The game is over and I never got to actually play. With the lead created from these bad decisions, I can barely enter jungle since I am going to be invaded by multiple players. I can't gank because they have full vision control and can win even 1v2. When jungling, there are games your teammates will lose for you and that's just a fact (especially on scaling picks). This is ultimately a team game and you are 20% of the equation not 100%. However, you don't need to win every game to climb so that's why long-term it's not very relevant. Plus, sometimes your team will stomp and give you a free win when you perform worse. It's also rare to have games that are pretty much solo lost by your teammates (probably less than 10%). To suggest that no game is the team's fault though is just really wrong. Even otherwise won games can be lost by a single player who chooses to engage randomly when 3v5 or other similarly spectacularly bad choices. As a side note though, roles such as mid do have more carry potential with a losing team than a jungler does. If the jungler has 3 solo losing lanes very early, then the game is mostly over. A good mid can stall at the most important turret for the map and can get more resources (XP/gold) + can generally scale better than junglers. You can win mid with a bad team but it's almost impossible to win jungle with 3 early solo losing lanes. Their performance has much more of an effect on yours than would be the case if you are playing mid. Jungle has a strong impact when the game is somewhat close but has very low agency in stomps.
: Have a same problems here. I think main reason is Riot replays record system has problems, and .rofl file we download to play replays have problem too. I did some test and here is result: - Crash happen on exactly time and always this time - Change client, ex: KR to EUW, don't work, crash still happen. - Redownload replay and play again, crash still happen - Change some setting on client, ex: resolution, image quality, windowed mode or full screen... Crash still happen IF WHAT REPLAYS BY OP.GG OR LEAGUEOFGRAPHS, THIS CRASH DON'T HAPPEN. I try to play 20 replays and 16 of them crash. omg :( Added information, on few patch ago, same bugs happen but very rare and only appear at the end of replays, and not have alert crash, just auto close replays when replays play done.
> [{quoted}](name=zhugeliangvn,realm=NA,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=L8Xv2xMK,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-05-15T08:39:27.366+0000) > > Have a same problems here. I think main reason is Riot replays record system has problems, and .rofl file we download to play replays have problem too. > > I did some test and here is result: > - Crash happen on exactly time and always this time > - Change client, ex: KR to EUW, don't work, crash still happen. > - Redownload replay and play again, crash still happen > - Change some setting on client, ex: resolution, image quality, windowed mode or full screen... Crash still happen > > IF WHAT REPLAYS BY OP.GG OR LEAGUEOFGRAPHS, THIS CRASH DON'T HAPPEN. > > I try to play 20 replays and 16 of them crash. omg :( > > Added information, on few patch ago, same bugs happen but very rare and only appear at the end of replays, and not have alert crash, just auto close replays when replays play done. Yeah, it's really unfortunate and I have a lot of good replays I want to go over/clip. I hope they fix it before next patch. This is unusable for me atm.
: I recall someone making a very popular post on treating your teammates like "dogs". Very basic, primal communication that shows your the pack leader. Never flaming, never distancing a member from the pack. commanding and encouraging such as: "come here." "push mid" "thank you" "well played" Your teammates dont have to be 100% on board every game. As long as you are calm and play like youre trying to be the best, the game is in YOUR hands- hence why the best players can climb with near perfect winrates. ^^ notice i said 'near-perfect'. If you try your best, analyze mistakes and results, and are aware, you still can lose games. As is the nature of the beast, but YOU will never lose a game where YOU play 100% perfectly, because YOU will NEVER be 100% perfect in any game- no one will. **Even faker feeds** "be good" -some pro...
> [{quoted}](name=LCKProPlayer2021,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XiylXxvj,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-05-15T05:30:24.752+0000) > > I recall someone making a very popular post on treating your teammates like "dogs". > > Very basic, primal communication that shows your the pack leader. Never flaming, never distancing a member from the pack. commanding and encouraging such as: > > "come here." > "push mid" > "thank you" > "well played" > > Your teammates dont have to be 100% on board every game. As long as you are calm and play like youre trying to be the best, the game is in YOUR hands- hence why the best players can climb with near perfect winrates. > > ^^ notice i said 'near-perfect'. If you try your best, analyze mistakes and results, and are aware, you still can lose games. As is the nature of the beast, but YOU will never lose a game where YOU play 100% perfectly, because YOU will NEVER be 100% perfect in any game- no one will. > > **Even faker feeds** > > "be good" -some pro... The whole win-rate thing is only for specific champions with hard carry potential and a strong stance in the meta + often a lot of dodging. You won't find a 90% win rate Poppy jungle 1-trick unranked to Diamond (unless it's a duo). You can definitely find it on Riven though, or Rengar, or Kha, or Eve etc. Win rates don't mean much. A lot of it is luck tbh. I've had wildly differing win rates on different accounts in similar time frames and for similar MMR brackets. Someone with a very high win rate may plateau at the exact same level as someone with a far lower win rate.
: RIOT!!! (ranked discussion)
While your team won't hold you back from climbing long-term over large samples, it absolutely can be true for small samples. And there definitely are "match making wins" (not 100% lost but very lopsided performances) sometimes. Although, it's probably true that flaming them won't help. Within ~150-200 games, you'll be around where you belong.
: i know the conqueror and e cooldown nerfs would heavily effect riven's wr, but they should have at least waited to see how low her wr got before giving her a compensation buff. As of now, theres basically nothing of value balance-wise that can be gotten when they berf her.
> [{quoted}](name=Pendergast891,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LhWHE9sq,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-05-14T22:06:34.706+0000) > > i know the conqueror and e cooldown nerfs would heavily effect riven's wr, but they should have at least waited to see how low her wr got before giving her a compensation buff. > > As of now, theres basically nothing of value balance-wise that can be gotten when they berf her. her win rate has barely moved at all so far it's a pretty light nerf
Rioter Comments
SirPurrr (NA)
: Replays Unstable 9.10
Luckily, it seems to not affect all replays. My last replay worked just fine.
Rioter Comments
: Why i can only dodge Once per day ?
Dodging favors players who play less. It's a weird decision.
: There is no way promos use the same matchmaking
You're right. Promos have MMR inflation and are harder than usual. It's not news.
: The Conqueror nerf does nothing to address the core design problem with it.
I agree with that. It's easy to abuse on some and barely viable on others. Case in points: AP champions almost universally suck with it. It provides AP from stacks but statistically it's almost never the optimal choice. Anyway, I'm pretty sure it won't be broken in 9.10.
: Zac changes coming to PBE for 9.11
I like the idea of having a viable AP Bruiser Zac. That's the old build I used when I mained him many moons ago. :D
Moody P (NA)
: Revert Warwick
> [{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T3JbGEOe,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-05-10T21:19:27.732+0000) > > Revert Warwick His rework was excellent and executed well. I'd never want a rework. The new WW has a much higher skill cap (all without really raising his skill floor) and fits his theme far better. The only sad part I suppose is that he falls off a bit too hard but that's more of a numbers thing than about the kit.
: Hi, Warwick sucks and full of bugs. Please fix him.
There's actually a big list of his issues on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/warwickmains/comments/aay8eu/warwicks_buglist_and_possile_qol_changes/ I think even the healing isn't working properly at all times. He was nerfed back when jgs could get level 3 after Red->Blue->Gromp and then gank. Tiamat was also cheaper. I think at the very least he should get his +1 AD back but a full revert of his nerfs would probably be warranted to make him ever worth picking in high ELO.
: > [{quoted}](name=SirPurrr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d75IlPXn,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-02T01:58:56.165+0000) > > That's nonsense. Even before the scuttler change, many junglers ganked level 2 and THEN did scuttler (often with the benefit of lane prio as a consequence of the gank). The scuttler spawning at 3:15 makes that more punishing since they don't have a "free camp" to heal off, get mana, XP and gold. They now have to either invade the enemy jungler after or walk back to their own jungle. It's less efficient and thus actually has a cost. Except there are 2 junglers total that do what you say. :/ Twitch and j4. That’s it. Those are the junglers who gank before scuttle. Because if you gank before scuttle, the enemy jungler is gaurenteed to get it uncontested.
> [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d75IlPXn,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-05-02T03:59:29.994+0000) > > Except there are 2 junglers total that do what you say. :/ > > Twitch and j4. That’s it. Those are the junglers who gank before scuttle. Because if you gank before scuttle, the enemy jungler is gaurenteed to get it uncontested. It was common on a ton of junglers. Even Hecarims level 2 ganked sometimes (Red->Bot->Scuttler). There are countless picks who did it but it's usually not the default play. You can know which side they start on and thus you'd have scuttler access even if you early gank the opposing side. Outside of low ELO, most junglers actually start Red so they are frequently on opposing sides.
: BRING BACK HUNTERS POTION!
trap item Riot just improved your ELO
: another morgana nerf????!?!?!?!
Yes, and a very justified one. It's no accident she's near permaban status in high ELO (especially in KR).
: Scuttle change.
That's nonsense. Even before the scuttler change, many junglers ganked level 2 and THEN did scuttler (often with the benefit of lane prio as a consequence of the gank). The scuttler spawning at 3:15 makes that more punishing since they don't have a "free camp" to heal off, get mana, XP and gold. They now have to either invade the enemy jungler after or walk back to their own jungle. It's less efficient and thus actually has a cost.
: > [{quoted}](name=SirPurrr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEiJjTI1,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-30T09:00:56.170+0000) > > He played several Udyr games even yesterday. I don't know what you mean. It's also not as if he's the only player in Challenger to use Udyr. Not saying Udyr is weak, but if you want to talk about Ranked you shouldn't be using a source that includes Normal matches in its stats.
> [{quoted}](name=Rainbow Slayer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEiJjTI1,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-30T09:20:33.581+0000) > > Not saying Udyr is weak, but if you want to talk about Ranked you shouldn't be using a source that includes Normal matches in its stats. He played Ranked Udyr games. I'm not sure what you're talking about. Lolalytics was also filtered to Plat+.
: > [{quoted}](name=SirPurrr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEiJjTI1,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-29T22:34:53.334+0000) > > Is there any jungler who isn't a metaslave that gets to top 25? The power of champions matters a lot at that level and even more so when you have stat checks at scuttlers so every tiny advantage matters. > > Anyway, looking through my history with Udyrs, I will say that maybe I'm overestimating him a bit. They've nearly all had Udyr in their top 5 most played so they clearly know what they're doing. Maybe that's a more significant factor than their pick. He's still frustrating to face though. I'm pretty much permabanning him if we don't have an ideal comp vs him and/or I am picking early. Pants Are Dragon pretty much explained why he dropped Udyr for Kindred/Reksai. Both of those are far superior gankers and most importantly offer picks to their team without suiciding into the enemy team in slow walk. Udyr is great for lower elo tho since you can't rely on people collapsing.
> [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEiJjTI1,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-30T05:14:40.026+0000) > > Pants Are Dragon pretty much explained why he dropped Udyr for Kindred/Reksai. Both of those are far superior gankers and most importantly offer picks to their team without suiciding into the enemy team in slow walk. > > Udyr is great for lower elo tho since you can't rely on people collapsing. He played several Udyr games even yesterday. I don't know what you mean. It's also not as if he's the only player in Challenger to use Udyr.
Sillae (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=hhaavviikk,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEiJjTI1,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-04-29T10:57:31.371+0000) > > and probably 3: he's just boring, his entire kit is just you right clicking, your abilities change your model and enhance your autoattacks but you still jsut right click, it's litterally all you do, you don't cast spells you don't cast skillshots or even have an ultimate, you just right click all game long which no doubt allot of people don't find fun > > sure it can fall into your ''flasier'' champions reason litterally every champion in the game is flashier than udyr, the only champion coming even close to udyr being sona who just like udyr come mid/late game just rolls er face on the keyboardQWE and then sends an ult and back to rolling face on keyboard for QWE, only difference is with udyr it's not QWE it's QWER had an udyr say that "at least Im more skill based than an adc all u do is right click in the back" I mean if he was insulting a vayne then maybe I'd understand but you can't really just stand still right clicking as caitlyn
> [{quoted}](name=Sillae,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEiJjTI1,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-04-30T02:43:35.896+0000) > > had an udyr say that "at least Im more skill based than an adc all u do is right click in the back" > > I mean if he was insulting a vayne then maybe I'd understand but you can't really just stand still right clicking as caitlyn Honestly, playing melee probably is harder in many ways (not Udyr specifically). I wouldn't consider that just a joke. ADCs have more straightforward play and at least one player dedicated to just helping them. On the other hand, they're also more important so mistakes are magnified.
: Far prefer an Udyr in my games over Lee Sin or Xin Zhao who jump on you and chunk off half your health in a matter of seconds. At least Udyr has to run into you and is easily peeled off. You can also have your frontline build thornplate/execution and he melts pretty quick.
> [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEiJjTI1,comment-id=0028,timestamp=2019-04-30T01:28:41.284+0000) > > Far prefer an Udyr in my games over Lee Sin or Xin Zhao who jump on you and chunk off half your health in a matter of seconds. > > At least Udyr has to run into you and is easily peeled off. > > You can also have your frontline build thornplate/execution and he melts pretty quick. Yes, because you're laning and don't have to deal with him as much. That's a very narrow perspective. Udyr isn't a top tier ganker and that's not what makes him annoying.
gElva (EUW)
: Really, I thought at least Warwick would be able to go toe to toe against him due to how easily he can be everywhere on the map and considering he's probably the strongest 1v1 early game duelist alongside Udyr. Bummer.
> [{quoted}](name=gElva,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEiJjTI1,comment-id=0027,timestamp=2019-04-29T23:02:34.062+0000) > > Really, I thought at least Warwick would be able to go toe to toe against him due to how easily he can be everywhere on the map and considering he's probably the strongest 1v1 early game duelist alongside Udyr. Bummer. WW gets absolutely slaughtered by him 1v1 level 2. it only changes at 6. even level 3 isn't enough.
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SirPurrr

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