Teh Song (NA)
: The passive on death's dance is meant to give squishy damagers a chance to lifesteal before they get bursted. That's why it also has a healing passive. It's not so much a bruiser item as it is a adc item.
Except literally all of the item's users bar Draven have one or more forms of sustain built in and therefore, are pretty far from being squishy.
: If Sorcery can get a proper [Damage over Time] Rune (like Deathfire Touch) then that's all I personally want.
: > [{quoted}](name=SithesisLord,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f1kAmyK3,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-07-13T20:18:36.206+0000) > > Yeah, because Press the Attack and Grasp TOTALLY don't exist. Ah, every other Class has their own Keystones, but Bruisers just because the majority of the Boards/Community don't know how to play against them, aren't allowed to have one? Grasp is for Tanks, PtA is for ADCs. Even Riot acknowledged that when they memed about how Bruisers had no keystone for several months and specifically made Conquerer for them.
No, Riot made Conqueror because ~~Cancer~~ Bruiser mains complained they weren't shitting on tanks from champ select onwards and actually had to learn the lane. Also, all keystones have almost all champions in mind, but people will always pick the one that works more reliably. GPs will always take Grasp/Footwork into hard matchups, Klepto into tank matchups, Comet if they want to scale, Harvest if they want to have fun with AP GP or are just tired of every other keystone. ~~Cancers~~ Bruisers can take PTA (Camille, Renekton), Grasp (Yorick, Garen, Mundo, Volibear), Conqueror (Irelia, Darius). ADCs go PTA, LT, Footwork, Harvest, Comet, Klepto. Sivir even had Spellbook as her main keystone for a while.
: The only one that can actual outheal someone who DMGs him, is Aatrox, because of his E and R. The Rest will heal a bit, but that's about it. If you remove the heal now, after Riot made almost every Bruiser a draintank, they lose a great Keystone, again, having none.
Yeah, because Press the Attack and Grasp TOTALLY don't exist.
Jamaree (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Bone Dad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ThssZX5E,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-07-11T04:02:41.894+0000) > > Unless it's riven. Nerfed recently and her win rate is below average except at the highest elos Edit: You don't have to believe but it true, ten bucks most of the people who are downvoting me are the low elo players and those silver and below players I'm talking about, guess what, at your elos, Riven has a 43% win rate https://u.gg/lol/champions/riven/build/?rank=iron 45% at bronze https://u.gg/lol/champions/riven/build/?rank=bronze and 48% at Silver which is below the average and where most of the players who complain about her play.
I think you meant she was: """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""Nerfed""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
l MrD l (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=SithesisLord,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ThssZX5E,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-07-11T01:14:14.950+0000) > > Yep. > > Still waiting on Jinxylord to stop bouncing on TFT's dick and get to fixing Kayle. whats wrong with kayle? Ive been trying korean build on her with muramana and its good?
Just the fact that her late game isn't nearly as strong for how garbage she is in the early game. Also literally every other hypercarry has better early, mid and late game stages than her. Also also what was a meme rune/build setup pre-rework is the only viable way to play her now. She either needs a much stronger late game or a better early game.
: Nothing feels worse than loving a champion who isn't on Riot's favorite list
Yep. Still waiting on Jinxylord to stop bouncing on TFT's dick and get to fixing Kayle.
Ralanr (NA)
: MR? Tabi was the item that was really good into Bruisers.
I meant Bruisers into Tanks, before Conqueror. As most tanks have only base damage, they're hit the hardest by the slightest of MR purchases.
: > [{quoted}](name=WalkingInACircle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UwOkXPAQ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-10T16:35:14.974+0000) > > None of those things are a problem. It's entirely laning phase based. Jungle tanks like Seju work because jungle. > > Meddler decided bruisers didn't beat tanks hard enough in lane, added conqueror, and removed them from toplane. Prior to Conquerer, bruisers were being demolished in lane by tanks - and everything else you said is overly simplistic and inaccurate.
>bruisers were being demolished in lane by tanks They were because 1100g for MR boots that gut tank damage and CC was too much of a dent on the core build of the most broken class in the game, apparently.
heroikc (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=SithesisLord,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rPPL9s8i,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-07-09T20:31:02.985+0000) > > Imagine putting Kayle, a champion who DOES NOT exist until 4 full items and level 16 and falls off VERY hard at 40+ minutes due to Kleptomancy on the same list as Jayce, Gnar, Pantheon, Kennen, Tryndamere and Sylas. > > Yikes. Kayle is more toxic than tanks given how ridiculous her late game is.
But to compensate for it, she loses lane to literally everyone. You can go Yuumi top and win lane against Kayle. Will it be because of better wave management and outplays? No, it's because you picked Yuumi and the poor bastard on the other side picked Kayle. Hell, her late game isn't even all that good for how garbage her early game is. And again, she falls off HARD at 40+ minutes.
Antenora (EUW)
: Kayle has changes coming in the near future to make her a bit better early but weaker late. When? We're not sure..
>When? We're not sure.. When Jinxylord stops bonucing on TFT's dick, most likely. Which will never happen.
heroikc (NA)
: Conqueror, Darius, Illaoi, Aatrox, Tahm, Fiora are tankbusters. Plus Rhaast, Vayne, Kai'sa, Master Yi, Kog'Maw, etcetc Not to mention {{champion:150}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:126}} {{champion:85}} {{champion:10}} {{champion:127}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:133}} {{champion:27}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:517}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:83}} are MORE toxic than tanks. Talk about talking out of both cheeks.
Imagine putting Kayle, a champion who DOES NOT exist until 4 full items and level 16 and falls off VERY hard at 40+ minutes due to Kleptomancy on the same list as Jayce, Gnar, Pantheon, Kennen, Tryndamere and Sylas. Yikes.
: > **Nowadays** you just get her empowered auto up and then go and kill someone with one combo when you have the items shes been doing this for aslong as I can remember, its not a new thing.
The only reason she does this is because her kit and itemization support assassin playstyles a lot more than fighter playstyles. A Rabadon's rush/Double Doran's Diana will ALWAYS be more useful to a team than a Nashor's/Abyssal Mask Diana.
: While I am against destroying champions as a general rule, when those champions have bad designs, they should be destroyed until their designs are fixed. In terms of why he's able to be in top lane, Tahm is one of those champions.
>when those champions have bad designs, they should be destroyed until their designs are fixed. So gut literally every champion released between Warwick and Kayle plus Mordekaiser into release Syndra levels of performance? I second that.
: > [{quoted}](name=THE RlVER KlNG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4akB1iOI,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-07-07T19:29:04.668+0000) > > Conflating 'removing champions' with 'improving top lane' is selfish and short-sighted. > > I don't like playing against Riven, or Jayce, or Kennen, but I don't want to remove their abilities to lane. Even though they are demonstrably more powerful and actually see professional play. He was just too strong. Period. Have had many many top mains both call out tahm kench for being way outta line in both low and mid and high elo. I have a fresh memory of a gold 3 getting their butt kicked by a tahm who was iron 1 I kidd you not. So it's not skill based its just that tahm is so far outta line.
Literally all they had to do was revert his most recent changes, keep the grounding on ally W and ult range nerfs. Done, he's fixed. But god forbid Riot actually reverts changes.
: It's not Aftershock. It's Aftershock on champions who shouldn't have it. I will say that I personally have no issue with Aftershock on anyone specifically or in general, but I play Nasus so it doesn't affect me.
>It's not Aftershock. It's Aftershock on champions who shouldn't have it. In that case, Riot better re-rework Conqueror so it doesn't work on Riven, Jayce, Yasuo, Kayn, Yi, basically everyone who isn't officially classified as a Fighter. It is a Fighter rune after all.
Ralanr (NA)
: That’s not a gameplay niche. That is salt.
That is Kayle not being able to take anything but Kleptomancy/Resolve because literally every champion outlanes her in champ select, and then falling off past 40 minutes because non-combat keystone is worthless in the late game. That is Kayle having to wait until 4 full items and level 16 for her late game when Jax and Vayne have to wait until 2 items and level 6. That is Kayle having the weakest early game bar none and not even be rewarded with the best late game bar none. That is Riot choosing to design a champion around 35+ minutes when most games are already decided at 15 and other champions of the same type coming online much earlier and being much stronger overall.
: Kayle’s Rework is fine. Very low ban rate, average/slightly above average winrate, slightly below average pick rate. She hits pretty close to what a niche champion stats should be.
Except her niche is being the weakest champion in the game bar none with not even the strongest late game.
Sylph (NA)
: bruh thats a losing fight... we've been yelling at riot about this for aaaages now
Because all you've been yelling about is: MaKe IbG mElEe OnLy!!!!1!! When it's the easiest and stupidest solution ever, when there are better options, like making it a scaling Spellblade based, slow applying tank item: UNIQUE – SPELLBLADE: After using an ability, your next basic attack within 10 seconds deals ~~(100% base AD)~~ (50% base AD)(75% bonus armor) bonus physical damage on-hit (1.5 second cooldown). UNIQUE – ICY ZONE: Triggering Spellblade also deals ~~(100% base AD)~~ (80% bonus Armor) physical damage to enemies surrounding the target and creates a icy zone for 2 seconds, which slows enemies within by ~~30%~~ 10%(+2.5% per 50 bonus armor). The zone has a radius of 180 (+55% bonus armor) units.
: > [{quoted}](name=DaenrysTargaryen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JUoILc86,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-25T22:15:53.284+0000) > > also sion sion and chogath are capable of losing lane trades. tahm isnt. a r%%%%%ed monkey could win lane with that champion. he has a lane kill rate of 60% against almost every single top laner, and thats **after** people learned not to try and interact with him. like his worst matchups are ranged champions that he still decisively beats in lane. please lets not pretend he isnt a problem. hes basically like pre rework lane nunu. broken in lane, almost useless afterwards. only that i dont remember lane nunu being able to 1v3. hes one of the few exceptions who is in such a broken state at the moment, that they should just olaf him for a few patches until they can find a way to balance his lane phase against his midgame.
>tahm isnt. a r%%%%%ed monkey could win lane with that champion. And then lose the game because in the League dictionary the entire definition for 'win lane, lose game' is Kench's splash art.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: Why isn't the design team being held responsible for this game's state?
>Kayle is dogshit, "mini-rework is planned" yea sure, go mini rework a champ that you just spent a whole year creating a new kit, and waste ressource because your vgu was garbage and didn't change anything while also making her even more unfun to play. Kayle's hit the mark a lot more accurately than quite literally every single VGU since Warwick's, Morderkaiser's included. Except the problem with Kayle isn't at all a problem with Kayle. It's a problem with every other late game hypercarry being able to lane.
: Clepto Kayle is about the skill potion to get ranged at 10 not 11. It's not about income... That's secondary..
Klepto Kayle is 100% about the income. Was when the skill potion worked on her passive, is now that it doesn't. Skill potions were and are a nice bonus to have, but isn't at all why Kayle takes Klepto. She takes Klepto because she loses one to EVERY single champion bar maybe Ornn and Sion, having to concede almost whole waves of minions just so she doesn't get engaged on and killed at soon as level 3.
: he was made to be a support... It's the whole reason he has his thick skin, as well as his ult, and the ability to devour allies. He only ended up going top (and sometimes jungle) due to people realizing how goddamn hard he is to beat in a 1v1.
: Yeah, but it's not like this is mutually exclusive. All the OP is saying is that tahm shouldn't be relegated to top simply because they can't figure out how to balance him bot, as he is essentially insult to injury
>All the OP is saying is that tahm shouldn't be relegated to top simply because they can't figure out how to balance him bot, as he is essentially insult to injury He has always been a top laner though.
: Get Tahm out of top lane
Yeah, let's get a top lane champion out of top lane. Smart idea.
RaQqa (EUNE)
: Can we revert Pyke and Tahm to actually be supports "only"?
Kench is supposed to flex into top lane since release. Pyke isn't.
: These new sylas nerfs will destroy him
>These new sylas nerfs will destroy him And literally no one other than the mains of that broken champ found it to be a bad thing.
: Because otherwise he's eating towershots without healing for a potentially very minor miscalculation.
So if he didn't have it, he'd actually have to commit to tower dives? Oh the horror, the horror.
ukog nos (NA)
: Idk man, I think tanks need to be nerfed as far as damage goes. Shen for example melts people. Rammus (kind of touchy because of W) but nonetheless melts people. Tanks aren't meant to deal a stupid amount of damage. They're meant to take the damage and let the damage dealers deal the damage.
>Tanks aren't meant to deal a stupid amount of damage. Better rewind time to World War 1 and tell the inventor of the tank he's doing it all wrong.
: Did you miss the part where he has a 53.6% win rate in top lane? Way higher than it ever was before...
With a pick rate so small you might as well say top Kench isn't a thing.
: nerf his q cooldown early game, make it no cooldown late game
Double his Q CD across all ranks, but quadruple normal and empowered healing.
: > [{quoted}](name=FOR JUSTICE,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ip4ypyqe,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-04-30T22:05:53.208+0000) > > lowkey it does solve a lot though, she cant just perma dodge roll on you until late game (when she is supposed to be strongest anyway). > > at the very least, its actually a pretty decent start because she has a longer window of being damaged. i would have taken a cooldown window on her w over the slight early game nerf on her ult. just something that lets you play around her goddamn kit and creates a window of weakness. another thing they could have done is make her e not create a w stack and displacement if it wouldnt connect her opponent with a wall, similar to how {{champion:432}} q works. remove her auto win button against melee champions and make her use positioning to get the effect. they could even buff the damage on her e in case it does connect the stun, and add a slight slow in place of the knockback when the e doesnt connect.
Alternatively, just revert every single buff she's gotten since pre-season 8, as she needed exactly zero of them.
: {{champion:223}} 42% win rate.
Squad5 saying it's supposed to be 'At WoRsE pOwEr NeUtRaL fOr ToP kEnCh' when top Kench is getting gutted the hardest by the changes is absolutely hilarious.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ragnaveil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=y8P9IkMh,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2019-04-29T02:18:18.550+0000) > > It is a bug. Only after enough feedback came through did the bug become a part of her kit. Lee's ward hop was the same thing. > The main issue is how long they've waited to adjust her kit. Hers and Jax's. And Vayne's. That's... what I said. Calling it a bug eight years later, when they've long since decided it's a feature, is stupid.
>Calling it a bug eight years later, when they've long since decided it's a feature, is stupid. No, it's 100% correct, actually. A bug is a bug, period. Riot may have called it a feature because 'bug' has negative connotation. But her animation cancelling is very much a bug still.
FSRER (EUNE)
: Riot hates juggernauts. That is why they haven't created anything juggernautish since illaoi (made a broken, juggernaut failure, overpowered and borken and they gave up, just like with balancing the game). {{champion:10}} Too strong early game to compensate for the godly late game {{champion:58}} Falls of like a real lane bully should {{champion:120}} Fine except when he becomes unkillable with conqueror (literally goes 1v5 and survives with trinity and steraks and tanks for 10 secs. {{champion:24}} If you know how to play against him he becomes useless with the nerfs they gave him (nerfed a DUELISTS damage because riot created spear of shojin) and actually playing Fiora if you want a duelist is way, way better than jax. {{champion:92}} Builds black cleaver and deaths dance and becomes unkillable {{champion:67}} If they want a adc that counters tanks, they should nerf her q damage and r stealth and leave the true damage untouched {{champion:8}} A ultra safe, self healing mage who hasn't be touched because....idfk why
>Too strong early game to compensate for the godly late game That is 100% the Inspiration rune, not Kayle. The only reason she even takes Klepto is because she loses lane to even scuttle crab. Also, too strong early? She has a 36% winrate at 0-15 minutes and 44% at 15-20 minutes. Inspiration tree is what's making her laning phase at least bearable and even then it's not enough.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: new akali is like one of the least nerfed champion in the game wanna know how much champions got nerfed MUCH more? Do you know that {{champion:3}} had twice more nerfs and yet called a good rework and a good design by the boards? Or how much nerfs {{champion:14}} yet called good design?
Good reworks and good designs aren't tied only to how little a champion has been nerfed. If that was the case, Warwick would be the only actually good rework, as he was nerfed ONCE. Twice, if you count the Q dealing double damage bugfix. Good reworks are always a combination of several factors. Galio and Sion are good reworks because their pros massively outweigh their cons. Akali isn't the case, as her new kit is at best unhealthy (surprise surprise, a CertainlyT champion with an unhealthy kit) and the only positive thing she's got going for her is her splash art.
Moody P (NA)
: "Unfixable" Akali got balanced faster than the reworks you guys suck off
>Akali got one passover After being slightly nerfed multiple times and having bits and pieces of her kit removed. But let's conveniently leave out that detail to fit a narrative.
: Is Tahm Kench still viable?
If you pick him up in top lane, sure. Support Kench is unreliable in soloQ. But if the changes Riot is doing to him are any indication, he'll be effectively dead on any and every role next patch.
: > [{quoted}](name=SithesisLord,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Rgm9qbxG,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2019-04-20T16:01:18.413+0000) > > Squad5 literally said it's at worst supposed to be power neutral for top lane Kench, yet the only thing he's getting for losing a ton of damage in his W, is 50 extra units on his Q, .5 extra seconds of slow duration, increased slow amount and his shield costs no mana. > > It's a nerf across the board. There's no other way of looking at it. And if in a couple of patches time they see that the kit is functioning in a much healthier way they are free to give him larger buffs across the board. This is not meant to be a straight nerf, it's meant to be an attempt to make Tahm Kench less unhealthy to play against when he's good. Or would you rather he sat at a 42% win rate forever?
I'd prefer if they killed support Kench entirely and balanced him around top lane. And all that would take is removing his allied Devour.
iiGazeii (NA)
: They want to take the things that are non-interactive about his kit (saving allies for free) and put power into the rest of his kit. He even said on Twitter that this isn't the last pass for Tahm. He's slowed while eating allies (he can still protect them, and Phase Rush + Switfies is still a thing he can do to mitigate that), but he gained: * A longer and more potent slow on his Q, with increased range * More healing and shielding from his E, and it no longer needs mana * Better damage on squishy enemies when Devouring them * A better ult in the late game This is just the first step. I'm all for taking the one thing that makes him very strong down a notch so that the rest of his kit can be better. Squad5 said that the intention is for these changes to be an overall buff for Tahm. Don't make harsh judgments until the full list of changes is out.
>Squad5 said that the intention is for these changes to be an overall buff for Tahm Overall buff for Kench top. Kench top is being hit the hardest by these changes though. Honestly the best way of nerfing him for pro play is just....removing his allied Devour, taking him out of support and solidifying him as a top laner. They can make it so that his W gets a 3 minute CD when used on allies and he'll STILL be pick/ban in pro play.
: > [{quoted}](name=Dope Solo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Rgm9qbxG,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-04-20T01:15:16.249+0000) > > These are nerfs. There isn't power going back in that's comparable in any way. Suck shit riot. It's readjusting his kit's strengths to give him some power elsewhere. There is every possibility that this iteration of Tahm Kench is still too weak relative to other champions in which case there is more room to buff other aspects of his kit without him stomping in pro play again.
>It's readjusting his kit's strengths Squad5 literally said it's at worst supposed to be power neutral for top lane Kench, yet the only thing he's getting for losing a ton of damage in his W, is 50 extra units on his Q, .5 extra seconds of slow duration, increased slow amount and his shield costs no mana. It's a nerf across the board. There's no other way of looking at it.
: NO. NO. STOP FUCKING PUSHING FOR TAHM TOPLANE, FUCK OFF. Hes the most cancer champion to play against toplane, theres no skill expression. Hes like Darius but triple the braindead. He auto loses to ranged and wins against all melee. WHY DO YOU KEEP PUSHING FOR TAHM TOP, HES A SUPPORT, LET HIM SUPPORT.
>STOP FUCKING PUSHING FOR TAHM TOPLANE Implying this nerf doesn't hit top lane Kench even harder.
: How exactly is Kayle a weak early game champion? She has a spammable point and click 550 range execute damage poke from level 1 with laughable mana costs. She takes CPot so her mana problems are solved. She pokes you down from level 1 forcing you to play back and stopping you from farming properly. Unless you can all in her in the early game, you are going to lose the lane regardless. And Kayle can int all game go 0/20 and get level 16 and 1v5 your team.
>How exactly is Kayle a weak early game champion? She has a spammable point and click 550 range execute damage poke from level 1 with laughable mana costs. Did the definition of spammable change? Because 8 seconds of CD at all ranks is anything but spammable unless she happens to bend the rules of the game in her favor to get 45% CDR at level 1. Also, Kayle IS, factually, a weak early game champion. Unless 39% winrate at 15 minutes doesn't qualify as weak early game. >She takes CPot so her mana problems are solved. If that is the case, then why is her first back almost always one or two Dark Seals? If she really had no meaningful mana costs, she could just start her core items and not go for one/two extra starting items just to sustain herself better. >She pokes you down from level 1 forcing you to play back and stopping you from farming properly. You get 8 seconds of an absolutely FREE lane after she uses it. Also, if you think you are having a bad time farming, imagine how her farming is going. >Unless you can all in her in the early game, you are going to lose the lane regardless. If you're playing Sion, Ornn, Hecarim, Klepto GP and in general champs who can't punish her for literally everything, of course you're gonna lose lane. Kayle's M.O. in almost every single matchup is play safe, freeze wave, farm under turret, be happy with a 20+ CS deficit and hope for a lot of 110g gold bags from Klepto. >And Kayle can int all game go 0/20 and get level 16 and 1v5 your team. If you let her farm and get Klepto procs in between all her deaths, obviously.
: Kayle will never be balanced until you do these changes...
>Make Kayle’s E a melee range attack until level 11 then her E can be ranged after level 11. LMAO, let's make an already weak early game champ even worse early game. >Make Kayle still have to generate 5 passive stacks at level 16 to become exhaulted. And completely kill the hypercarry fantasy she has. The issue isn't Kayle, the issue is Kleptomancy. Half or remove her true damage, add some more power early on to compensate so she can actually lane against people, delete Kleptomancy, which has been a problematic rune since day 0. Done, she's fixed.
: Not even true. I just played the kayle matchup as heca vs kayle she can trade VERY well into me as early as around lvl 5/6. In an all in she loses due to the insane healing i put out but other than that kayle's early is plenty strong.
But then you're playing Hecarim, a champion that just like Sion and Ornn can't realistically punish a Kayle early on like Riven, Irelia and Jax can. The former 3 will only kill her in all ins. The latter 3 will kill her from champ select onwards.
: So in games where people have afks and surrender she has a bad winrate.... k?? Pretty sure 0/15 shouldnt be a high winrate for pretty much anything at all outside of STRICT early game champions. Winning in 15 mins by itself its rather difficult since its post 7 mins when the turrets lose their reductions, and post 14 when turret plates fall. Not sure id judge any champion by that measurement. try the 20 min to 25 min measurement.
>Pretty sure 0/15 shouldnt be a high winrate for pretty much anything at all outside of STRICT early game champions. Which is funny, because Tristana has a 58% winrate at 0-15. Guess she must be an early game champ. >try the 20 min to 25 min measurement. 51.23% on Jax 51.67% on Kayle 56.29% on Jinx 50.68% Vayne 50.44% on Tristana Safe for Jinx, these all seem to be appropriate for game time.
: ***
>Kayles god status isn’t difficult enough to get to It is, actually, and depending on the draft, it's very difficult to maintain too. Draft CC heavy comps against her and she can get as many skill pots to reach level 16 power spikes at level 9 and it won't matter, she'll just die, even if she ults.
: Like I said in a early post, until they address how easy it is to sustain with timewarp , biscuits and klepto she's gonna be a problem
She's only really taking Klepto because the M.O. for 90% of matchups is play safe, be happy with your 20+ CS deficit, and hope you drop a lot of gold bags to make up for lost gold.
Vulkus I (NA)
: What makes it even better is that her early isn't even bad, what an amazing champion. She is getting nerfed this patch though.
>What makes it even better is that her early isn't even bad Her early is one of the weakest if not the weakest in the game, with 39.47% winrate at 0-15 minutes. If you want to complain about hypercarries without weak early games, complain about Jax, Vayne, Tristana and Jinx, not Kayle.
: Ok Shall we reduce your aa range as compensation?
Funny how Irelia gets 200 AA range when Kench and Kayle, who have comparatively long weapons(yes, Kench's tongue is a weapon, imho) don't have it. Riot is very bad at consistency.
Show more

SithesisLord

Level 30 (NA)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion