: Here is a list of all the items I could think of over the span of 1-2ish hours that might need to be removed/reworked. I might make this it's own post, but we'll see. --- **Items to Remove/Rework:** Unhealthy: * {{item:3161}} Spear of Sojin * 20% cdr, health, and good effect make it a very good bruiser item, but It absolutely breaks certain chamions {{champion:24}} {{champion:92}} * {{item:3124}} Guinsoo's RageBlade * The Phantom Hit effect is very strong on certain on-hit characters {{champion:67}} {{champion:10}} It's so strong on them that it limits their build options * {{item:3512}} Zz'Rot Portal * {{champion:14}} was specifically nerfed because of the Inting Sion strat that came from this item and Demolish * {{item:3147}} Duskblade of Draktharr * Hear me out, I do not think the lethality is broken. The amount of vision control this item provides while being a **VERY** good assassin item is a bit ridiculous. All other vision items are utility based or support items. It could be okay, but I think other classes should have access to vision items as well if Duskblade stays. (see item recommendations) * {{item:3025}} Iceborn Gauntlet * Anytime a ranged character can use this item well {{champion:112}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:43}} they have to be nerfed * {{item:3022}} Frozen Mallet * {{champion:150}} was nerfed into the ground forever ago because of this item. He still rarely sees play and has only recently started to get a winrate above 47% on 1% playrate due to a recent buff * {{item:3100}} Lichbane * AP assassin's like {{champion:131}} {{champion:28}}{{champion:245}} do insane amounts of upfront burst damage with this item. I feel like it limits their build options, they can't build items for the current situation b/c lichbane gives them too much damage to pass up. It doesn't see play anywhere else besides {{champion:37}}. * {{item:3071}} Black Cleaver * The combination of AD, CDR, and HP make this item extremely good for most bruiser characters. The problem is that Marksmen like {{champion:236}} {{champion:203}} {{champion:67}} pick it up a lot now too. It seems to give too much power for too many roles. Low Usage Rate: * {{item:3091}} Wit's End * I'm glad you decided to give some attention to Wit's End, but you made it even more niche than it was. It used to be good option for ranged onhit champions against a magic dmg team. Due to the below 50% health requirement for the heal and the heal reduction, ranged characters cant use it very well anymore. IMO it only seems good on attack speed bruisers like {{champion:19}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:77}} * {{item:3512}} Zz'Rot Portal * Just not used much, and when it is it's very powerful/obnoxious * {{item:3056}} Ohmwrecker * I honestly forgot about this item * {{item:3222}} Mikael's Crucible * Rarely sees play Not Impactful: * {{item:3151}} Liandry's Torment * Outshone by {{item:3165}} except on a few champions like {{champion:17}} {{champion:69}}. Any other mage that wants to build it usually has to build a slowing item {{item:3116}} {{item:3030}} to make good use of it first. * {{item:3009}} Boots of Swiftness * These boots are bought very seldomly, and do not provide much. In most situations it's better to go {{item:3117}} (for the speed) or {{item:3111}} (for the slow reduction) * {{item:3174}} Athene's Unholy Grail * Almost never built as a 1st or second item for supports. It is outshone by {{item:3107}} {{item:3504}} * {{item:2053}} Raptor Cloak * Never used b/c it builds into items never used and it's passive is only good situationally ---- **Suggested Items** * A Marksman item that gives the ability to place {{item:3363}} or use an effect like {{item:3187}} /Quinn **W** in order to give adc's the ability to counteract the vision removal from {{item:3147}} . Potentially a rework for the current shielding {{item:3046}}. Note: {{item:3363}} wards cannot be ward hopped to, so Lee and Jax should not be able to abuse it * A replacement for the phantom hit effect on {{item:3124}} that give attack speed characters more kiting ability to make up for the potential removal of phantom hit. * Armor/Health item besides {{item:3800}} that gives CDR for tanks like {{champion:154}} who can't build {{item:3110}} {{item:3025}} * An AP heavy melee assassin item that does not trigger on-hit to replace {{item:3100}}. Maybe an active with very small aoe (Graves W) and range for a 1 or 2 second smokescreen that obscures you from enemy vision and deals poison dmg to anyone inside when cast. This would help AP assassins get into a fight and stay alive a bit longer without having to ult/flash out while also reducing their upfront damage from lichbane.
> [{quoted}](name=Scream Engineer,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=BE56qAN1,comment-id=003c,timestamp=2019-04-05T19:33:56.016+0000) > > Here is a list of all the items I could think of over the span of 1-2ish hours that might need to be removed/reworked. I might make this it's own post, but we'll see. > > --- > > > **Items to Remove/Rework:** > Unhealthy: > > * {{item:3161}} Spear of Sojin > * 20% cdr, health, and good effect make it a very good bruiser item, but It absolutely breaks certain chamions {{champion:24}} {{champion:92}} > * {{item:3124}} Guinsoo's RageBlade > * The Phantom Hit effect is very strong on certain on-hit characters {{champion:67}} {{champion:10}} It's so strong on them that it limits their build options > * {{item:3512}} Zz'Rot Portal > * {{champion:14}} was specifically nerfed because of the Inting Sion strat that came from this item and Demolish > * {{item:3147}} Duskblade of Draktharr > * Hear me out, I do not think the lethality is broken. The amount of vision control this item provides while being a **VERY** good assassin item is a bit ridiculous. All other vision items are utility based or support items. It could be okay, but I think other classes should have access to vision items as well if Duskblade stays. (see item recommendations) > * {{item:3025}} Iceborn Gauntlet > * Anytime a ranged character can use this item well {{champion:112}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:43}} they have to be nerfed > * {{item:3022}} Frozen Mallet > * {{champion:150}} was nerfed into the ground forever ago because of this item. He still rarely sees play and has only recently started to get a winrate above 47% on 1% playrate due to a recent buff > * {{item:3100}} Lichbane > * AP assassin's like {{champion:131}} {{champion:28}}{{champion:245}} do insane amounts of upfront burst damage with this item. I feel like it limits their build options, they can't build items for the current situation b/c lichbane gives them too much damage to pass up. It doesn't see play anywhere else besides {{champion:37}}. > * {{item:3071}} Black Cleaver > * The combination of AD, CDR, and HP make this item extremely good for most bruiser characters. The problem is that Marksmen like {{champion:236}} {{champion:203}} {{champion:67}} pick it up a lot now too. It seems to give too much power for too many roles. > > Low Usage Rate: > > * {{item:3091}} Wit's End > * I'm glad you decided to give some attention to Wit's End, but you made it even more niche than it was. It used to be good option for ranged onhit champions against a magic dmg team. Due to the below 50% health requirement for the heal and the heal reduction, ranged characters cant use it very well anymore. IMO it only seems good on attack speed bruisers like {{champion:19}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:77}} > * {{item:3512}} Zz'Rot Portal > * Just not used much, and when it is it's very powerful/obnoxious > * {{item:3056}} Ohmwrecker > * I honestly forgot about this item > * {{item:3222}} Mikael's Crucible > * Rarely sees play > > Not Impactful: > > * {{item:3151}} Liandry's Torment > * Outshone by {{item:3165}} except on a few champions like {{champion:17}} {{champion:69}}. Any other mage that wants to build it usually has to build a slowing item {{item:3116}} {{item:3030}} to make good use of it first. > * {{item:3009}} Boots of Swiftness > * These boots are bought very seldomly, and do not provide much. In most situations it's better to go {{item:3117}} (for the speed) or {{item:3111}} (for the slow reduction) > * {{item:3174}} Athene's Unholy Grail > * Almost never built as a 1st or second item for supports. It is outshone by {{item:3107}} {{item:3504}} > * {{item:2053}} Raptor Cloak > * Never used b/c it builds into items never used and it's passive is only good situationally > > ---- > > > **Suggested Items** > > * A Marksman item that gives the ability to place {{item:3363}} or use an effect like {{item:3187}} /Quinn **W** in order to give adc's the ability to counteract the vision removal from {{item:3147}} . Potentially a rework for the current shielding {{item:3046}}. Note: {{item:3363}} wards cannot be ward hopped to, so Lee and Jax should not be able to abuse it > * A replacement for the phantom hit effect on {{item:3124}} that give attack speed characters more kiting ability to make up for the potential removal of phantom hit. > * Armor/Health item besides {{item:3800}} that gives CDR for tanks like {{champion:154}} who can't build {{item:3110}} {{item:3025}} > * An AP heavy melee assassin item that does not trigger on-hit to replace {{item:3100}}. Maybe an active with very small aoe (Graves W) and range for a 1 or 2 second smokescreen that obscures you from enemy vision and deals poison dmg to anyone inside when cast. This would help AP assassins get into a fight and stay alive a bit longer without having to ult/flash out while also reducing their upfront damage from lichbane. Every item with an effect is bad, got it. Lol
: Yea * Mikael's crucible is in need of a rework. Overly ping reliant and can be made to better work for players of all skill levels * Ohmwrecker - tower disable hasn't proven to be a healthy mechanic and the item has nearly 0 users currently * Wit's end was this recently - if our 9.7 changes don't give it a more used niche it would fall in here Some opportunities that we would like to pursue with freed up space * More choice and options in lethality builds * An ap bruiser / ap melee item * All around cleanup of support items, get some more choice in there and dont force players into 5 actives in one build
> [{quoted}](name=RiotScruffy,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=BE56qAN1,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-04-05T17:45:19.464+0000) > > Yea > > * Mikael's crucible is in need of a rework. Overly ping reliant and can be made to better work for players of all skill levels > * Ohmwrecker - tower disable hasn't proven to be a healthy mechanic and the item has nearly 0 users currently > * Wit's end was this recently - if our 9.7 changes don't give it a more used niche it would fall in here > > Some opportunities that we would like to pursue with freed up space > > * More choice and options in lethality builds > * An ap bruiser / ap melee item > * All around cleanup of support items, get some more choice in there and dont force players into 5 actives in one build Can we finally get an armor upgrade for Cata? Cata is super good on Taric but you basically force me into MR when I want Catalyst but im fighting an all AD comp.
: So, I've seen a lot of comments(both here and elsewhere), that Taric needs a Star Guardian skin. In many ways, this is a comment that is in the same vein as the rest, but in another way it isn't— This is a reason **why** Taric needs a Star Guardian skin. It makes sense from a narrative standpoint. Let's take a look at what we know: So, Taric(and most of the other Aspects, excluding Zoe), is the closest thing we have in League to a paladin. Rather than channel divine strength through an affinity with a specific deity, he, like the other Aspects, are the living vessels for primordial celestial figures. They are ideals given shape and wills. Unlike Leona, who is bound by the strict expectations and duties of her militant cult, Diana, who has lost the Lunari's history, and her own way, and Pantheon, who has been turned into a hollow shell for the Aspect of War's direct use, Taric's personal ideals and inner strength are completely in accord with Protection's own purposes and desires, giving him a level of autonomy his peers lack. In-game, he even goes so far as to call himself "Chosen of Targon", and claims "The Mountain's secrets are known to me", both of which seem to imply that he is privy to Targon's true nature and inner workings in a way that is unique. He is a champion chosen by one of Runeterra's oldest sources of arcane and celestial might for the ultimate goals of preserving life and cleansing the Void from Runeterra. The people he decides to help, the roses he decides to fight for; what he does in his spare time is left to his whim and will so long as he doesn't lose sight of those ideals. Of course, in the Star Guardian universe, things would be a bit different. But not entirely different. Let us work off of the assumption that everything from vanilla Runeterra has parallel in the SG AU. The Void is, of course, still the Void. I would venture so far as to say the Aspects are still Aspects. And if they're meant to work in concert, their ultimate goal remains the cleansing of the Void. The mysterious First Star, the source of each Star Guardian's power and the driving presence that unites them—I'd say that would probably be Aurelion Sol. He's said to have given life to each star within Runeterra's solar system, and the likelihood that First Star is just as much a literal title as it is accolade is more than a little likely. If the conflict is First Star versus The Void, as it is Targon versus The Void, I'd say that the Star Guardians are newly-appointed infantrymen, drafted into a war they previously couldn't see, given the equipment to fight their foe regardless of whether they want, or think, they can. The Aspects would, war analogy maintained, be considered generals of a sort. Each would be master of their own domain, and would contribute to the fight in their own way, but Taric's intimate connection to the will of Targon would put him in a unique position: he'd work as the First Star's emissary, and, for better or worse, take it upon himself to oversee the Star Guardians grow and develop into the soldiers they're meant to be. ....which isn't to say that we can't get a series of every Aspect being given a Star Guardian skin. But if we're going to have anything on the level of Star Guardian Ahri, I think Taric is the perfect pick.
> [{quoted}](name=A Quiet Lane,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Jxf4Es0n,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2019-03-11T21:45:35.273+0000) > > So, I've seen a lot of comments(both here and elsewhere), that Taric needs a Star Guardian skin. In many ways, this is a comment that is in the same vein as the rest, but in another way it isn't— > > This is a reason **why** Taric needs a Star Guardian skin. > > It makes sense from a narrative standpoint. Let's take a look at what we know: > So, Taric(and most of the other Aspects, excluding Zoe), is the closest thing we have in League to a paladin. Rather than channel divine strength through an affinity with a specific deity, he, like the other Aspects, are the living vessels for primordial celestial figures. They are ideals given shape and wills. Unlike Leona, who is bound by the strict expectations and duties of her militant cult, Diana, who has lost the Lunari's history, and her own way, and Pantheon, who has been turned into a hollow shell for the Aspect of War's direct use, Taric's personal ideals and inner strength are completely in accord with Protection's own purposes and desires, giving him a level of autonomy his peers lack. In-game, he even goes so far as to call himself "Chosen of Targon", and claims "The Mountain's secrets are known to me", both of which seem to imply that he is privy to Targon's true nature and inner workings in a way that is unique. He is a champion chosen by one of Runeterra's oldest sources of arcane and celestial might for the ultimate goals of preserving life and cleansing the Void from Runeterra. The people he decides to help, the roses he decides to fight for; what he does in his spare time is left to his whim and will so long as he doesn't lose sight of those ideals. > > Of course, in the Star Guardian universe, things would be a bit different. But not entirely different. Let us work off of the assumption that everything from vanilla Runeterra has parallel in the SG AU. The Void is, of course, still the Void. > > I would venture so far as to say the Aspects are still Aspects. And if they're meant to work in concert, their ultimate goal remains the cleansing of the Void. The mysterious First Star, the source of each Star Guardian's power and the driving presence that unites them—I'd say that would probably be Aurelion Sol. He's said to have given life to each star within Runeterra's solar system, and the likelihood that First Star is just as much a literal title as it is accolade is more than a little likely. If the conflict is First Star versus The Void, as it is Targon versus The Void, I'd say that the Star Guardians are newly-appointed infantrymen, drafted into a war they previously couldn't see, given the equipment to fight their foe regardless of whether they want, or think, they can. The Aspects would, war analogy maintained, be considered generals of a sort. Each would be master of their own domain, and would contribute to the fight in their own way, but Taric's intimate connection to the will of Targon would put him in a unique position: he'd work as the First Star's emissary, and, for better or worse, take it upon himself to oversee the Star Guardians grow and develop into the soldiers they're meant to be. > > ....which isn't to say that we can't get a series of every Aspect being given a Star Guardian skin. But if we're going to have anything on the level of Star Guardian Ahri, I think Taric is the perfect pick. Taric is THE Star Guardian.
Zeus xD (EUNE)
: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/8c/pzq6n36lsysy.jpg Star Gurdian + chromas,border,icon and i will be happy {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
> [{quoted}](name=King Zeus,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Jxf4Es0n,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-03-11T18:15:15.545+0000) > > https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/8c/pzq6n36lsysy.jpg > > Star Gurdian + chromas,border,icon and i will be happy {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}} This one.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 6
Are we going to see any Taric changes any time soon?
: > [{quoted}](name=Skias,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=1ZAPMpxT,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-15T19:24:33.075+0000) > Catalyst is such a comfortable item on him and eternity feels like it should be core, what would be the chances of getting an Armor based variant upgrade for it? Abyssal mask is the only really worthy upgrade for Taric but a full AD team means he pretty much can't upgrade it. RIP the days when {{item:3800}} built out of a {{item:3010}}
> [{quoted}](name=Pokemonred200,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=1ZAPMpxT,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-16T00:27:17.988+0000) > > RIP the days when {{item:3800}} built out of a {{item:3010}} For real. It feels really bad when your champ isn't part of the 10 populars, so he just gets ignored. I have no idea how balancing this game is sustainable when they only seem to be able to focus on like 3 to 4 champs at once. The time table for less mainstream champs to get attention is literally years in some cases. Ridiculous.
Meddler (NA)
: 9.3 took some true damage out with the IE change, 9.4 will remove some more with Conqueror's adjustment. Agree it's sometimes felt like Armor hasn't been as good a choice as you'd expect, think the issue's more on the damage side than the item side though.
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=1ZAPMpxT,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-15T17:15:30.877+0000) > > 9.3 took some true damage out with the IE change, 9.4 will remove some more with Conqueror's adjustment. Agree it's sometimes felt like Armor hasn't been as good a choice as you'd expect, think the issue's more on the damage side than the item side though. Hey Meddler. I'm a Taric player and due to Taric's adc like power curve, I feel like I'm weak early and made of paper late game despite stacking health and armor. Catalyst is such a comfortable item on him and eternity feels like it should be core, what would be the chances of getting an Armor based variant upgrade for it? Abyssal mask is the only really worthy upgrade for Taric but a full AD team means he pretty much can't upgrade it. I have to build SO many stats to be effective. Can you please consider consolidating his scaling so it is easier to focus on certain purchases (Health, Mana, Armor). In alternative to that, Taric has always felt like an Armor scaling champion. Where do you think he would fall balance wise if his heal lost the AP scaling component and gained armor scaling? The problem with many support items is they give him AP which I generally think isn't as useful to him as tackiness. He is forced to constantly eat poke due to his play pattern to access Bravado. He needs something else outside his ult to allow him to fight all the ranged threats bottom.
Meddler (NA)
: Under discussion as something we should consider, nothing concrete or certain at present though.
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=JeoGRXbm,comment-id=001e0000,timestamp=2019-01-16T17:02:49.234+0000) > > Under discussion as something we should consider, nothing concrete or certain at present though. It would be nice to not have all my armor invalidated for picking Taric and trying to scale with my intended stat.
: Any word on the Ornn nerf currently on PBE? I believe this is a bug due to the fact you had no data on him when that arrived to PBE. (W CD to 14s from 12s) On all statistic websites I see his winrate has dropped even more so, instead, are there any plans to buff him? Mainly his CDs as he gains levels so that he can function.
> [{quoted}](name=PowerOfDrainAge,realm=EUNE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=eJ3T6JR4,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-01-11T17:00:53.018+0000) > > Any word on the Ornn nerf currently on PBE? I believe this is a bug due to the fact you had no data on him when that arrived to PBE. (W CD to 14s from 12s) > > On all statistic websites I see his winrate has dropped even more so, instead, are there any plans to buff him? Mainly his CDs as he gains levels so that he can function. They replaced his shield with armor/mr which are just irrelevant now. Every single opponent will bypass your defense if it's not a shield.
Cõdý (NA)
: Hey Meddler, Are there any discussions on working with the conqueror rune in the near future? It seems like its one of the stronger keystones that may need looked at considering it deals with true damage.
> [{quoted}](name=CodyIicious,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=eJ3T6JR4,comment-id=0024,timestamp=2019-01-11T17:49:53.484+0000) > > Hey Meddler, > > Are there any discussions on working with the conqueror rune in the near future? It seems like its one of the stronger keystones that may need looked at considering it deals with true damage. If it at least dealt physical damage, armor wouldn't be as worthless.
Meddler (NA)
: What we'll likely do in 9.2: Adaptive (Slot 1 and 2) :: 10 >>> 9 [AP: 10 >>> 9, AD: 6 >>> 5.4] Armor (Slot 2 and 3) :: 5 >>> 6 Magic Resist (Slot 2 and 3) :: 6 >>> 8 Changes look pretty small individually, given it's narrowing the gap between offensive and defensive runes from both sides we're expecting it to be larger than it looks though, especially since in a number of cases it should also result in people swapping from offense to defense. E.g. not just 2 x 6 AD and 1 x 5 Armor vrs the same, but more cases of 1 x 5.4 AD vrs 2 x 6 Armor.
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=eJ3T6JR4,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2019-01-11T17:12:11.839+0000) > > What we'll likely do in 9.2: > > Adaptive (Slot 1 and 2) :: 10 >>> 9 [AP: 10 >>> 9, AD: 6 >>> 5.4] > Armor (Slot 2 and 3) :: 5 >>> 6 > Magic Resist (Slot 2 and 3) :: 6 >>> 8 > > Changes look pretty small individually, given it's narrowing the gap between offensive and defensive runes from both sides we're expecting it to be larger than it looks though, especially since in a number of cases it should also result in people swapping from offense to defense. > > E.g. not just 2 x 6 AD and 1 x 5 Armor vrs the same, but more cases of 1 x 5.4 AD vrs 2 x 6 Armor. Are we going to see nerfs to conqueror anytime soon? Champs that stack Conqueror with Black Cleaver (they both serve the same purpose), just make any armor changes you make irrelevant. I cannot play Tanks or itemize Armor as Taric in the current meta. My purchases are almost entirely negated by every enemy.
Haziv (EUW)
: New Skin for Taric The Shield of Valoran
I'd like to see Woad Taric where he has red hair and is all Celtic. I'd also like to see Arclight Taric so he can finally have his Paladin skin. Since he is the most paladin-like character.
Infernape (EUW)
: Make top lane Taric viable {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
> [{quoted}](name=Infernape,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Anub8eHK,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-01-06T20:35:11.705+0000) > > Make top lane Taric viable > > {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}} It is viable.
Hayaishi (NA)
: What if Azir's new E was usable on allies? You could cast in on an ally, a soldier would rush towards it granting him a shield and Azir could still use it to attack( though i might need to lose the knock up) It would create really cool interactions and would enforce his identity as a control mage. It would be a really useful tool for protecting allies and controlling space around them. Also adds some strategic value because Azir has to decide whether he wants to comit all his soldiers to one side of the battle or save some to defend his allies
> [{quoted}](name=Hayaishi,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=6QEXyBIZ,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2018-10-04T18:39:19.611+0000) > > What if Azir's new E was usable on allies? > > You could cast in on an ally, a soldier would rush towards it granting him a shield and Azir could still use it to attack( though i might need to lose the knock up) It would create really cool interactions and would enforce his identity as a control mage. It would be a really useful tool for protecting allies and controlling space around them. Also adds some strategic value because Azir has to decide whether he wants to comit all his soldiers to one side of the battle or save some to defend his allies That's just Orianna's move protect.
Uperior (NA)
: Oh 100% agree; the shuffle honestly needs to go. Been thinking about ways to change Azir to be more healthy So a few things I thought of were Increase his W cast range slightly; to help compensate for the safety that his current shifting sands offers Remove Shifting Sands; replace it with something similar to his old ult where he summons a shield wielding sand soldier to knock back enemies that jump on Azir (Starting with 1 soldier, and increasing to 3 as you level the ability). Something that works like {{champion:103}} {{champion:101}} or {{champion:161}} giving him SOME level of safety without giving him mobility on top. New ult Azir summons a sand mage to his side, shielding his emperor for a duration, and counting towards his soldier limit (Making it easier to get 3), and fully recharging his soldier count So it takes away his full safety net of mobility and self peel, for working more with his W, while still giving him SOME level of protection without making it his ONLY reason to exist
> [{quoted}](name=Uperior,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=6QEXyBIZ,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2018-10-18T23:17:38.276+0000) > > Oh 100% agree; the shuffle honestly needs to go. > > Been thinking about ways to change Azir to be more healthy > > So a few things I thought of were > > Increase his W cast range slightly; to help compensate for the safety that his current shifting sands offers > > Remove Shifting Sands; replace it with something similar to his old ult where he summons a shield wielding sand soldier to knock back enemies that jump on Azir (Starting with 1 soldier, and increasing to 3 as you level the ability). Something that works like {{champion:103}} {{champion:101}} or {{champion:161}} giving him SOME level of safety without giving him mobility on top. > > New ult Azir summons a sand mage to his side, shielding his emperor for a duration, and counting towards his soldier limit (Making it easier to get 3), and fully recharging his soldier count > > So it takes away his full safety net of mobility and self peel, for working more with his W, while still giving him SOME level of protection without making it his ONLY reason to exist What is the purpose of having a knock back or his ult without his current E? It wont save you from Zed or Fizz, so you will be hugging your tower for dear life. His current E is crucial to his playstyle as his Q is VERY hard to use against high mobility champs. You will just force him into hard counters because with your proposed changes, he will be absolutely unable to defend himself, even under tower after 6. You cant just band aid the situation with a ton of shields on everything and expect to not die every lane. Barrier is rarely taken for the same reason. Mobility is the main part of heal that allows you to survive. The only way Azir will survive a gank is reaching safety, and your proposed ult will still leave him dead against most of the meta burst champs right now. Can you imagine how clunky he would feel with his current movement speed trying to team fight? He cant reposition, so he cant move his soldiers. Soldiers disappear so you recast them, Q then everyone is out of range. So you have to move, but there is a wall. So you have to go around. Your team is dead because you spent most of the fight being kited. There is no way he could get any sustained DPS off without his Soldiers applying a massive slow on stab instead of just Q. Youd have to build Rylais into his kit to be playable. Riot came to the same conclusion. Removing his mobility removes Azir. His playstyle is a shifting DPS mage. What you suggest ruins his playstyle. Lower his access to burst, turn up his DPS and keep his mobility.
: Let's talk Azir: Why his kit is a problem and how a possible fix could look like
I've said it so many times in this conversation. His mobility is what makes him unique, fun and not Orianna. He is far harder to play than Orianna. Orianna's ultimate is uninteresting and doesnt require her to put herself in danger to use it. Azir is rewarded with damage because of the intense amount of skill that is required to play him optimally. His skill expression is one if the most satisfying in league of legends. Also, when it comes to lore, maybe a mortal emperor cowers behind his soldiers, but Azir is a god emperor with an ego and tons of self confidence. He doesnt back down or hide in any of his lore. Changing him into an Orianna tower hugging Q-bot doesnt do him justice. Removing his E is like removing Lee Sin's ward dashes. You might as well just make a new champion, because Azir will cease to be the fun, challenging champion he is now. It often sounds to me like some folks just want him to be easier to play like Orianna and that is just not who he is.
Ifneth (NA)
: If you don’t care what I say, then you’re not replying to it, in which case you’re just rambling, incoherently, I might add.
> [{quoted}](name=Ifneth,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=wZsfEAAE,comment-id=0005000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-08T04:56:16.074+0000) > > If you don’t care what I say, then you’re not replying to it, in which case you’re just rambling, incoherently, I might add. To be honest, your idea has flaws. The changes really dont change anything and all you would encourage is mages to stack chapters because there is no unique passive. So, you would remove Anivia from being able to be played at all and instead just have Galios etc stacking chapters. I dont care for this option, personally. Not to mention, it would become a boring stat stick with no power conditions whatsoever.
TomiMan7 (EUNE)
: whoahahah wtf? thats his job? you must be new to leage or something. assassins back in the day had no waveclear. That was a perk of the mage class. They had all the waveclear. An assassin SHOULDNT be able to outshove a mage.
> [{quoted}](name=TomiMan7,realm=EUNE,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=wZsfEAAE,comment-id=000500010000,timestamp=2018-11-18T21:41:23.181+0000) > > whoahahah wtf? thats his job? you must be new to leage or something. assassins back in the day had no waveclear. That was a perk of the mage class. They had all the waveclear. An assassin SHOULDNT be able to outshove a mage. Yeah, exactly. The counter play to assassins is to keep them pinned. Assassins are not supposed to have waveclear.
Ifneth (NA)
: Remove Lost Chapter Passive, Reduce Cost
I think the problem you would run into is inadvertently making champions with high mana costs like Azir, Anivia etc extremely weak and empowering Akali, Aatrox, Irelia and other virtually resourceless champs. The crux of the issue with Lost Chapter is, mana intense champions rely on it to even be playable in a meta where games end so quickly and early game decides everything, whereas champions with lower mana cost harass become nigh resourceless. My opinion is that the abundance of cooldown reduction is what makes it overbearing. It's not the access to mana, it is also how often it is being employed. Removed haste from the item if anything. But you would definitely have to buff Anivia etc somewhere if they are to remain viable. If Manaband hadn't gotten nerfed into oblivion, you would be able to remove the level up mana mechanic because mana intense champions could opt into that instead of damage.
: I see it as a balance measure to prevent IBG rush being too powerful. Mana Sheen Armor Massive CDR Cheap as hell Solo lane Taric would be a nightmare provided he doesn't get statchecked or forced to miss 4 minions/wave especially given Bastion can be self cast, win an easy trade thanks to the shield, then cast on your jungler and re-engage.... yikes.
> [{quoted}](name=MankeyMadness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=JmHT6OER,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2018-12-18T01:35:10.295+0000) > > I see it as a balance measure to prevent IBG rush being too powerful. > Mana > Sheen > Armor > Massive CDR > Cheap as hell > Solo lane Taric would be a nightmare provided he doesn't get statchecked or forced to miss 4 minions/wave especially given Bastion can be self cast, win an easy trade thanks to the shield, then cast on your jungler and re-engage.... yikes. Armor is garbage at the moment though. True damage is everywhere and HP is infinitely better at keeping you alive. Any significant investment in armor depreciates VERY fast. Which sucks since by time Taric gets armor, its worthless.
: > [{quoted}](name=Mc Raton,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=JmHT6OER,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2018-12-18T01:16:18.210+0000) > > Taric mana cost are insane and he deserve a reduction since his kit call itself to spam ! To get a proper value next to healer/enchanter he need to spam 3 bravado to get the same value. Mean he have to use way more mana. He could use a really SMALL mana reduction on his Q since most Taric player level Q last since 2 stack is better during the fight as stacking 5 stack take too much time . The best thing Riot could do is make 2 stack at every level but decrease the max healing to compensate. Like leveling Q would increase heal per stack and turn back second reduction instead of granting 1 stack so people can't abuse the healing while keeping it fair for Taric and it's opponent. I feel that Taric needs no buffs to his mana costs, but if it were ever changed a better option would be to not reduce any costs. Instead they should make it so bravado refunds a small amount of mana. This means that Taric is punished for just sitting back and healing and rewarded for actually going in and actively using his passive.
> [{quoted}](name=AlienPrimate,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=JmHT6OER,comment-id=000d0000,timestamp=2018-12-18T01:20:37.927+0000) > > I feel that Taric needs no buffs to his mana costs, but if it were ever changed a better option would be to not reduce any costs. Instead they should make it so bravado refunds a small amount of mana. This means that Taric is punished for just sitting back and healing and rewarded for actually going in and actively using his passive. That's how he is now. If you sit back and try to heal, your healing is garbage without Bravado. Bravado is the lynchpin of his entire kit.
Zeus xD (EUNE)
: Can we make Taric less mana hungry?
What's funny about Tear, it's not even the mana that's great. Its Awe. That passive makes his mana costs suck a little less. Problem is, its not as good as Catalyst. Catalyst let's you recycle your mana and you die in two hits instead of one.
: The gold funneling nerfs to Taric were never reverted when gold funneling was supposedly fixed. Taric has been so much weaker since. The armor runes were a small improvement but ultimately Taric doesn't feel like he has very much impact in teamfights where his ult is down. Riot, revert the nerfs please.
> [{quoted}](name=Glimmer Man,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=JmHT6OER,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2018-12-18T00:47:32.718+0000) > > The gold funneling nerfs to Taric were never reverted when gold funneling was supposedly fixed. Taric has been so much weaker since. The armor runes were a small improvement but ultimately Taric doesn't feel like he has very much impact in teamfights where his ult is down. > > Riot, revert the nerfs please. I think his base stats just need to be better for what he is. He's just too damn squishy early on.
Mc Raton (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Skias,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=JmHT6OER,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-12-17T15:19:05.924+0000) > > As a Taric main, I can tell you, Taric suffers from the same problem ADCs have. Hes so incredibly item dependent and has an ADC like power curve. He doesnt come online outside of his ultimate until 2-3 items. In the current meta, the game has been decided by then. If they move the ADC's access to power forward like they mentioned in Beyond the Rift, they will have to front load some of Taric's power too, or he will be unplayable. > > Mana costs are what gate him, because he has to spend mana to get bravado. Bravado is the only thing that makes his cooldowns reasonable for the effect that they have. His heals and shields aren't big. It's the fact that he can cast them repeatedly that makes them worth anything. > > To do that, he needs to be in melee range. Going Tear means you are still made of paper and are going to die in melee range. Tear needs a defensive option so Taric can get armor from an upgrade for it. AD and AP are worthless in laning phase bottom lane, and most of the time, sheen is a far better option top lane than AD from manamune. > > He needs armor, HP and mana. He scales with items and Tear takes too long to do jack shit in lane. This man got it right. Rushing Frozen Heart , glory or zeke herald is nice but it take time for taric to come online and the early game meta we have doesn't favorize that. A defensive tear option would open path for Taric and other tank suffering the mana pool issue.
> [{quoted}](name=Mc Raton,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=JmHT6OER,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2018-12-17T22:23:49.908+0000) > > This man got it right. Rushing Frozen Heart , glory or zeke herald is nice but it take time for taric to come online and the early game meta we have doesn't favorize that. A defensive tear option would open path for Taric and other tank suffering the mana pool issue. Thanks dude. I play more Taric in every position than I play any other champ. There isn't a build I haven't done.
Kynin (NA)
: Don's level Taric heal. It increases the max amount of charged held and a slight increase in heal while massively increasing the mana cost even if you only have one charge. It is best to keep it at one point. Heal, passive, heal, passive, heal. Quantity over quality. Will still have mana issues early game but maxing q feels terrible without running a tear. Update: Every website I have looked at has suggested to level q second or third.
> [{quoted}](name=Kynin,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=JmHT6OER,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-12-17T18:25:34.017+0000) > > Don's level Taric heal. It increases the max amount of charged held and a slight increase in heal while massively increasing the mana cost even if you only have one charge. It is best to keep it at one point. Heal, passive, heal, passive, heal. Quantity over quality. Will still have mana issues early game but maxing q feels terrible without running a tear. > > Update: Every website I have looked at has suggested to level q second or third. You level it to two, so you get the full benefit of bravado.
Dr Dog (NA)
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Dr Dog,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=JmHT6OER,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-12-17T14:46:31.376+0000) > > when his costs are low hes gonna end up a problem in solo lanes, you dont know unfun till you've vsed a taric top lane with blue Have fun stealing blue in soloQ and not having your team rage.
: > [{quoted}](name=Tarquin96,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=JmHT6OER,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-12-17T14:32:06.476+0000) > > since ziggs r can hit 5 people in center should it cost 1000 mana?the fact that it can doesent mean much,usually you wont heal more than 3 people with q Try using a similar example. A damage ability requires the enemies not be trying to dodge it. Taric's heal only requires your allies group near either you or your bound ally. And you can ask them to do that. If you want a similar ability to compare, look at Soraka's ultimate. At max rank, which requires level 16, it's 350 with only 55% AP scaling, with a 130 cooldown and 100 cost. Taric's Q on the other hand, is maxed at level 9, has 209 (+100% AP) at 5 stacks counting his base health, with essentially a 4 second cooldown and 110 cost. Considering the strength of the ability, the cost is reasonable. If they were to reduce the mana cost they'd have to reduce the healing as well. And considering the mana cost isn't actually an issue, that would just be a nerf.
> [{quoted}](name=DeceasedL0ved0ne,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=JmHT6OER,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-17T14:45:03.794+0000) > > Try using a similar example. A damage ability requires the enemies not be trying to dodge it. Taric's heal only requires your allies group near either you or your bound ally. And you can ask them to do that. > > If you want a similar ability to compare, look at Soraka's ultimate. At max rank, which requires level 16, it's 350 with only 55% AP scaling, with a 130 cooldown and 100 cost. > Taric's Q on the other hand, is maxed at level 9, has 209 (+100% AP) at 5 stacks counting his base health, with essentially a 4 second cooldown and 110 cost. > > Considering the strength of the ability, the cost is reasonable. If they were to reduce the mana cost they'd have to reduce the healing as well. And considering the mana cost isn't actually an issue, that would just be a nerf. Technically, your math is off. He gets 1 starlight per bravado stack. So considering a 5 star heal means he spends well over 130 mana to charge the thing, then has to spend 110 to cast it. He doesnt get 5 star heals for 110. If you're waiting for all 5 charges to charge without consuming bravado, it would take an eternity for a garbage 250~ heal. You have to remember, he spends a shit ton of mana to get that heal going. It costs almost 250 mana for every 5 star heal and he has to melee something to do it, meaning he has to eat CC, poke and risk dying.
Zeus xD (EUNE)
: Can we make Taric less mana hungry?
As a Taric main, I can tell you, Taric suffers from the same problem ADCs have. Hes so incredibly item dependent and has an ADC like power curve. He doesnt come online outside of his ultimate until 2-3 items. In the current meta, the game has been decided by then. If they move the ADC's access to power forward like they mentioned in Beyond the Rift, they will have to front load some of Taric's power too, or he will be unplayable. Mana costs are what gate him, because he has to spend mana to get bravado. Bravado is the only thing that makes his cooldowns reasonable for the effect that they have. His heals and shields aren't big. It's the fact that he can cast them repeatedly that makes them worth anything. To do that, he needs to be in melee range. Going Tear means you are still made of paper and are going to die in melee range. Tear needs a defensive option so Taric can get armor from an upgrade for it. AD and AP are worthless in laning phase bottom lane, and most of the time, sheen is a far better option top lane than AD from manamune. He needs armor, HP and mana. He scales with items and Tear takes too long to do jack shit in lane.
: Not to mention the balancing. DH just became a massive problem (again), Conqueror still exists, and defensive stats are in general better off being removed with how much damage just ignores it.
> [{quoted}](name=Ragnaveil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0AJbeKRn,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-11-22T16:35:54.351+0000) > > Not to mention the balancing. DH just became a massive problem (again), Conqueror still exists, and defensive stats are in general better off being removed with how much damage just ignores it. Tell me about it. Conqueror should never have existed as well as this current DH. I have no idea why Riot feels armor should be worth nothing. It feels really bad to pick an armor based tank into a team of full AD champs and still die in three hits.
: Season 9 Is Just Going To Be A Worse Season 8
Yeah the game pacing is a mess.
: Look, I'd be fine with Runes Reforged keystone's...
Honestly, if they just removed runes reforged and left the mini runes they have now, this game would be 100x better. This shit is a convoluted balance nightmare.
: I play Taric as my go-to support when I can't play Alistar. I do feel Taric is a little behind in the game due to the indirect nerfs they gave him. He for sure lost a lot when Face Of The Mountain was removed from the game. But I have a build for you you should really give a try to make up for it. Relic and rej beads when leaving base Back when you can finish item Then either Righteous Glory, or Knights Vow build the other then Iceborn gauntlet then Locket Mobi boots When you have the gold, sell your boots and get a gargoyles stoneplate. It gets so fun because you can spam Q while smashing through the enemy team while stunning, while also being a god tier cc support. Although he is nerfed right now, you can still play him to where you wouldn't ever know.
> [{quoted}](name=Herald Est Mors,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AH2ovgXF,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-05-13T06:47:51.492+0000) > > I play Taric as my go-to support when I can't play Alistar. I do feel Taric is a little behind in the game due to the indirect nerfs they gave him. He for sure lost a lot when Face Of The Mountain was removed from the game. But I have a build for you you should really give a try to make up for it. > > Relic and rej beads when leaving base > Back when you can finish item > Then either Righteous Glory, or Knights Vow > build the other > then Iceborn gauntlet > then Locket > Mobi boots > > When you have the gold, sell your boots and get a gargoyles stoneplate. > > It gets so fun because you can spam Q while smashing through the enemy team while stunning, while also being a god tier cc support. Although he is nerfed right now, you can still play him to where you wouldn't ever know. His early game is just so bad bot. Relic Shield is barely an item anymore. It's income sucks.
: I main Taric as one of my three champions in bot. He seems actually pretty fine. Are you a Taric OTP?
> [{quoted}](name=CrestfallenNight,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AH2ovgXF,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-13T00:17:06.006+0000) > > I main Taric as one of my three champions in bot. > He seems actually pretty fine. Are you a Taric OTP? I used to. I don't play him bot anymore because he just absolutely sucks balls into the mages going down bot. King Taric says the same thing. "You're a player with Taric in his name not playing Taric, why?" These nerfs. He's one of the best Taric players around.
Rioter Comments
: Except it's not garbage. Outside of Zyra or so relic users in my games finish the quest before coin/apellthiefs consistently. The ONLY downside the item has is you have to get the eye early for the CDR.
> [{quoted}](name=My Waifu Vanilla,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=2ykqAkNa,comment-id=002c00000002000000020000,timestamp=2018-05-05T23:59:34.664+0000) > > Except it's not garbage. Outside of Zyra or so relic users in my games finish the quest before coin/apellthiefs consistently. The ONLY downside the item has is you have to get the eye early for the CDR. Relic shield is literally only optimal on Alistar. Check out KingTaric on youtube, he goes into great detail.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 11
Any plans for Anivia post mana changes? She feels like garbage.
: Unusability? Sure about that one? Getting almost 100g every wave after like 10 minutes is pretty good compared to the competition.
> [{quoted}](name=My Waifu Vanilla,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=2ykqAkNa,comment-id=002c000000020000,timestamp=2018-04-30T23:05:43.389+0000) > > Unusability? Sure about that one? Getting almost 100g every wave after like 10 minutes is pretty good compared to the competition. Being complete fucking garbage until 10m is unacceptable. The games don't last past 20. You have to make an impact in the first 8, or chances are, you'll lose.
: You make a good point for sure. We're still discussing - I'm leaning towards Tabi and Randuin's applying before Infinity Edge.
> [{quoted}](name=Riot Axes,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=2ykqAkNa,comment-id=002c0000,timestamp=2018-04-30T18:47:08.384+0000) > > You make a good point for sure. We're still discussing - I'm leaning towards Tabi and Randuin's applying before Infinity Edge. Yeah, this was my big concern as a Taric player. With Targon's being nerfed into un-usability, These stats will turn on just as I'm getting tanky and true damage/total armor pen will crap on me anyways. I really miss shield battery and targon's giving gold.
: Each Champion's Adaptive Stat
Don't give Taric some shit AP. AD for smacking.
: Hey Meddler, I had a question about how you think Shurelya's Reverie {{item:2065}} landed this patch? I've been playing it a little on Rakan, and thought it was okay but wish it was more enchanter-y, maybe costing more just so I could get some more base stats that are centered around enchanters. Have fun on your trip! (assuming your leaving for the next couple weeks on a trip)
> [{quoted}](name=ZaneShadow,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=na3Ko02t,comment-id=002c,timestamp=2018-03-30T16:39:24.462+0000) > > Hey Meddler, > > I had a question about how you think Shurelya's Reverie {{item:2065}} landed this patch? > > I've been playing it a little on Rakan, and thought it was okay but wish it was more enchanter-y, maybe costing more just so I could get some more base stats that are centered around enchanters. > > Have fun on your trip! (assuming your leaving for the next couple weeks on a trip) I think it speaks to the base stats of the item's problems that you wish it were more enchantery, while I wish it were tankier. It doesn't do either, so its kind of wishy washy.
: It's a consideration to make on a case by case basis, honestly. Removing DFG from the shop (though I wasn't on the team years ago when that decision was made) does seem like the right call to me. As to Zephyr, it seems like it wasn't earning its place in the shop, and that's a very similar space for Ohmwrecker and Manamune. If Zephyr were still in the game today, I'm not sure there would be a good reason to remove it and not Ohmwrecker, for example. That said, we wouldn't really gain a whole lot by reintroducing it either. The difference to me between Zephyr and Manamune is perhaps that the fantasy behind Manamune is a lot more compelling and defined, perhaps, but that's a pretty subjective assessment.
> [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d0o7nNgO,comment-id=00130001000000020000,timestamp=2018-03-14T23:11:03.289+0000) > > It's a consideration to make on a case by case basis, honestly. > > Removing DFG from the shop (though I wasn't on the team years ago when that decision was made) does seem like the right call to me. > > As to Zephyr, it seems like it wasn't earning its place in the shop, and that's a very similar space for Ohmwrecker and Manamune. If Zephyr were still in the game today, I'm not sure there would be a good reason to remove it and not Ohmwrecker, for example. That said, we wouldn't really gain a whole lot by reintroducing it either. The difference to me between Zephyr and Manamune is perhaps that the fantasy behind Manamune is a lot more compelling and defined, perhaps, but that's a pretty subjective assessment. I love building that or archangels on Taric. It's nice having the high mana option for offense.
: Yeah, pretty much. It's got the damage amp increase on it to still reward those that are getting in there and mixing it up for their team.
> [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O4VrFlEc,comment-id=00060003,timestamp=2018-03-08T06:03:35.542+0000) > > Yeah, pretty much. It's got the damage amp increase on it to still reward those that are getting in there and mixing it up for their team. Would this even hit anyone if you did get in there? Even on Taric, If I bought this, my team would get very little benefit.
: Anyone have insightful commentary on today's version of Rageblade? Interested to hear it!
> [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QVEZ37ME,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-03-08T00:54:15.756+0000) > > Anyone have insightful commentary on today's version of Rageblade? Interested to hear it! I'd like to see it easier to buy early and something to scale other items off of.
Nerouin (NA)
: Rumble's issue is really not the damage on his ultimate. It's that he's an auto-lose against most opponents in top lane and against almost everyone in the jungle. That's a consequence in large part of the long cooldown on his Q, but also his lack of a viable keystone and the hit he took from the itemization rework. If Rumble cannot power his way into the mid-game power spike he once enjoyed, his value will remain impaired, and--given his tremendous reliance upon items--his ultimate still won't be all that strong anyway. AP scaling is of limited use when you don't have the AP items you need, and an extra 10-40 damage per second won't make much difference of its own accord. It's even less useful given the marked mobility creep in the game. His ultimate isn't all that useful against champions who can simply ability their way out of it. That's a particular problem in top lane, given the huge number of champions who can cleanse the slow and/or dash/blink out of its zone of effect. This looks like a big buff upon first glance, but as a Rumble player I feel like it entirely misses the point. It doesn't address the root of his problems.
> [{quoted}](name=Nerouin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xF7mKaPE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-03-09T03:26:35.113+0000) > > Rumble's issue is really not the damage on his ultimate. It's that he's an auto-lose against most opponents in top lane and against almost everyone in the jungle. That's a consequence in large part of the long cooldown on his Q, but also his lack of a viable keystone and the hit he took from the itemization rework. > > If Rumble cannot power his way into the mid-game power spike he once enjoyed, his value will remain impaired, and--given his tremendous reliance upon items--his ultimate still won't be all that strong anyway. AP scaling is of limited use when you don't have the AP items you need, and an extra 10-40 damage per second won't make much difference of its own accord. It's even less useful given the marked mobility creep in the game. His ultimate isn't all that useful against champions who can simply ability their way out of it. That's a particular problem in top lane, given the huge number of champions who can cleanse the slow and/or dash/blink out of its zone of effect. > > This looks like a big buff upon first glance, but as a Rumble player I feel like it entirely misses the point. It doesn't address the root of his problems. He used to be like Renekton. You picked him to bully the lane and fight both the lane and jungle 2v1. Now he can't even 1v1.
: Any chance you guys might try putting the initial nuke damage that the equalizer once had back on? Also, reverting the cooldown on his Q to 6 secs at all ranks would be nice (with appropriate stat adjustments).
> [{quoted}](name=DONT GIVE UP,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xF7mKaPE,comment-id=00020005,timestamp=2018-03-09T08:08:39.624+0000) > > Any chance you guys might try putting the initial nuke damage that the equalizer once had back on? > > Also, reverting the cooldown on his Q to 6 secs at all ranks would be nice (with appropriate stat adjustments). I agree. Just give him some of his frontloaded damage back instead of more damage.
buPPDrmXEO (EUNE)
: Rumble is fine with his mains scoring a 54~% win rate. He has his counters like everyone else, but he is really strong against bruisers and tanks who can't deal with his overbearing lane presence. After level 4 he pretty much auto wins against anyone who's unable to stick on him. Sure he struggles against Camille, Illaoi, Fiora and Riven but so does everyone else.
> [{quoted}](name=Juice,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xF7mKaPE,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-03-09T09:56:13.288+0000) > > Rumble is fine with his mains scoring a 54~% win rate. He has his counters like everyone else, but he is really strong against bruisers and tanks who can't deal with his overbearing lane presence. After level 4 he pretty much auto wins against anyone who's unable to stick on him. > > Sure he struggles against Camille, Illaoi, Fiora and Riven but so does everyone else. These are the champs he should excel against... Lol.
buPPDrmXEO (EUNE)
: Your opinion might be biased considering you're a rumble main. From my , 10 years of experience I can outright tell you that Rumble in the right hands is completely broken and there's noone who can "outright" kill him besides the champions I mentioned. New Lyandri is insane on him and the buffs put him in a good spot. Walking away from Q as a melee is hardly a good tactic when you consider the fact melees have to farm. That's like saying Renekton's whole kit is useless because people can walk away from him. I play against Rumbles a lot in Diamond and most of the players I meet are his mains. If you are forced to go Adaptive / Second wind / Dshield you will not have the damage necessary to deal with Rumble and he will still destroy you thanks to the Lyandri and Sorc shoes.
> [{quoted}](name=Juice,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xF7mKaPE,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2018-03-09T12:06:19.031+0000) > > Your opinion might be biased considering you're a rumble main. > > From my , 10 years of experience I can outright tell you that Rumble in the right hands is completely broken and there's noone who can "outright" kill him besides the champions I mentioned. > > New Lyandri is insane on him and the buffs put him in a good spot. Walking away from Q as a melee is hardly a good tactic when you consider the fact melees have to farm. That's like saying Renekton's whole kit is useless because people can walk away from him. > > I play against Rumbles a lot in Diamond and most of the players I meet are his mains. If you are forced to go Adaptive / Second wind / Dshield you will not have the damage necessary to deal with Rumble and he will still destroy you thanks to the Lyandri and Sorc shoes. If that's what your experience tells you, you must be pretty bad.
buPPDrmXEO (EUNE)
: New liandry is godlike on Rumble, he gets the magic pen he need from his boots. He's almost an auto-win against most melees and very hard to push out the lane, while also having access to one of the most game changing ultis in game.
> [{quoted}](name=Juice,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xF7mKaPE,comment-id=00030000000000010000,timestamp=2018-03-09T13:17:29.236+0000) > > New liandry is godlike on Rumble, he gets the magic pen he need from his boots. > > He's almost an auto-win against most melees and very hard to push out the lane, while also having access to one of the most game changing ultis in game. If it was godly, he wouldn't be the worst solo top in the game.
Erdamon (EUNE)
: Rumble "buffs" are fine, but it's not what he needs. @RiotWittrock
He needs work put into his kit to bring it back in terms of functionality. He's so synergy dependent that recent changes have made him clunky. He's never been designed to have huge cooldowns because he overheats. Giving his Q a massive cooldown has made him feel all fucked up. He's supposed to be at his strongest early and mid, but currently he just sucks early and mid, then sucks late. He's not good in lane and sucks in teamfights.
: Heyo! Thanks for the post and thoughts. Wanted to specifically comment on the discussion of removing the linger. I agree that even with the rest of the list, what went to PBE today may have been a nerf. I certainly want to avoid that, so testing some more straight-forward damage buffs on Q and R tomorrow instead. I believe in the future revisiting removing R's linger is good; it has a clearer effect, rewards good usage, and we can pack a lot more power into it. But we would need more time to understand what buffs would bring that change to neutral; I'm interested in folks perspectives around that.
> [{quoted}](name=Riot Wittrock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xF7mKaPE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-03-09T04:02:53.821+0000) > > Heyo! Thanks for the post and thoughts. Wanted to specifically comment on the discussion of removing the linger. I agree that even with the rest of the list, what went to PBE today may have been a nerf. I certainly want to avoid that, so testing some more straight-forward damage buffs on Q and R tomorrow instead. > > I believe in the future revisiting removing R's linger is good; it has a clearer effect, rewards good usage, and we can pack a lot more power into it. But we would need more time to understand what buffs would bring that change to neutral; I'm interested in folks perspectives around that. Have you considered giving him back his Ultimate's impact damage he used to have before his upfront damage was removed? Also, his cooldown on his Q feels REALLY long when fighting Ornn, Sion and Nasus who just shrug your damage off because theirs is constantly available.
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