: > [{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=211dipeA,comment-id=00110000,timestamp=2016-07-28T04:45:06.329+0000) > > It's ok, but it's wasted potential. Shyvana's synergy with on hit items is so insanely high that not going Bloodrazer is pretty hard to justify. {{item:3748}} pretty much all you need lol
I disagree. You'll find your burst potential falls off a cliff if Titanic Hydra is your only damage item. What you really need is {{item:3748}}. And {{item:3078}}. And {{item:1416}}. And {{item:3091}}. Then you're set. You'll still do enough damage to be a threat with just the Hydra but you won't do enough damage to truly carry without at least 3 damage items.
: What if you bought cinderhulk on Shyvana? It's not exactly a poor item-choice on her.
> [{quoted}](name=Shrek Luigi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=211dipeA,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2016-07-28T02:08:53.305+0000) > > What if you bought cinderhulk on Shyvana? It's not exactly a poor item-choice on her. It's ok, but it's wasted potential. Shyvana's synergy with on hit items is so insanely high that not going Bloodrazer is pretty hard to justify.
: > [{quoted}](name=CerealBoxOfDoom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=211dipeA,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2016-07-27T17:32:41.917+0000) > > its not so much that shyv is weaker as it is the fact that devourer champs are no longer being picked so shyvanna can shit on them though most devouer champions shit on shyvanna. ww jax and yi can duel her fairly well. so can xin
They can beat Shyvana with equal gold. Thing is, they shouldn't ever have equal gold because they're not Shyvana against Shyvana.
: I know why it's there, so that people can't mindlessly build against it and she can't be easily countered by tanks and tanky building fighters. Everybody is always complaining about how her %hp true damage doesn't counterplay (which is redundant because it's not supposed to). I say swap it with total armor ignorance, maybe ignoring 50 or 60% total armor, and having the proc'd vital deal bonus physical damage based on total HP or missing HP. Fiora already builds a Black Cleaver as a standard, and duelists/fencers are supposed to slash and aim for where the armor is the weakest or where the armor doesn't cover. Thematically it fits, and the dreaded true damage everyone hates disappears. Now remind me of how my suggestion is thoughtless, cause now you know my exact thoughts.
Because then you could just stack health against it instead of building armor. I already said that.
: Lol how was it thoughtless? You don't need to insult me, just have a civil discussion.
It's thoughtless because it shows absolutely no consideration for why it is the way it is in the first place. And this IS a civil discussion. Believe me, I'm being far nicer than you really deserve right now.
: I'm speaking as someone who enjoys playing Fiora. People complain about her true damage, all i did was offer a possible solution
You offered a completely thoughtless solution. Think. Why is Fiora's passive true damage?
: Wouldn't it make more sense for Fiora's passive to ignore armor instead dealing % true damage
Then you could just stack health against it. It's supposed to be uncounterable strictly through item builds. Accept it already.
: BECAUSE STATED DEVOURER WAS FUKIN BROKEN. who would think you take away a broken item and a champ that wasnt viable prior to it isnt prior afterwards. the problem with {{champion:102}} is she has zero gank pressure at all and even at 6 with her ult it is weak. she is weak early and is a farm jungler. she provides no cc in ganks so to get a kill/sucessful gank your laner has to provide the cc and engage instead of being able to engage as the jungler. so you take a jungler with no cc, weak early game, item/gold dependent vs a jungler who can set up ganks, provide early gank/kill pressure and is more utility based that can be useful by their kit will always outshine a {{champion:102}}
> [{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=211dipeA,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2016-07-27T23:20:23.305+0000) > > she is weak early and is a farm jungler. Shyv is not weak early. She has weak ganks early. Those are not the same thing. Shyv's early game is actually extremely strong as a duelist and counterjungler, just not as a ganker.
: A tank isn't defined by its CC, hat is a secondary facility. A tank has ability to tank damage. And in that department, They tank more or less the same against AP (assuming same items/levels), but Malphite tanks way better against AD, so Malphite is a better tank. So, by your definiton, a full attack speed Nautilus is still a better tank than a normal build Malphite? Just because he has better CC?
A tank is defined by how well they can exert control from a frontline position. They are not defined by their ability to take damage, otherwise any champ built tanky could be considered a tank. In order to exert that control, you need to be able to both CC enemies that enter into your zone of control and you need to be able to take punishment. Malphite is very good at taking punishment but he's not very good at controlling enemies; once his ult is down, his only CC is his Q slow which is more of a chasing tool given how it's designed. Nautilus by comparion has spammable a spammable AOE slow, snares on his autoattacks, and his hook in addition to his ult, with his W helping him to stay alive. With that in mind, Nautilus is a better tank; the control he exerts in the frontline while also being hard to kill is unparallelled by pretty much any champion in the game. While Malphite is indeed very tanky, he's more of an initiator that turns into an extremely tanky bruiser after ulting rather than a true tank.
: something not so expensive
Your alternative is Titanic Hydra which is only 200 gold cheaper.
: What about {{champion:161}} then. the had removed his passive stacking on his ultimate with the mage update, but added it back a couple patches later.
> [{quoted}](name=DeathBot666,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=211dipeA,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-27T20:03:40.219+0000) > > What about {{champion:161}} then. the had removed his passive stacking on his ultimate with the mage update, but added it back a couple patches later. As a heavy Vel'koz player, his kit just didn't function properly without the ult adding at least some stacks. So glad they changed it back.
: Hmm...okay. I just had a question Tri Force or Black Cleaver...which is stronger on her and why?
Depends on how tanky the enemy team is. Squishy? Triforce. Tanky? Cleaver. Gonna be splitting all game? Triforce. I get Triforce probably 90% of the time nowadays, but Cleaver has its uses.
: > [{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=211dipeA,comment-id=000b00000000,timestamp=2016-07-27T18:41:17.465+0000) > > You don't need it. You'll either have won or lost any fight before lifesteal becomes relevant. I'm sure people will just let you run up to them and smack them in the face instead of nuking your brains out... you need lifesteal or massive tankiness to surive.
> [{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=211dipeA,comment-id=000b000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-27T20:49:28.384+0000) > > I'm sure people will just let you run up to them and smack them in the face instead of nuking your brains out... you need lifesteal or massive tankiness to surive. I find I do fine. {{champion:102}} {{item:1416}} {{item:3078}} {{item:3748}} {{item:3143}} {{item:3111}} {{item:3026}} You don't need to be insanely tanky, just tanky enough to do your job. I find this build along with some slight variations does just fine in that department. Hell, sometimes I replace the GA with a {{item:3091}} for even more damage. Hasn't really been a problem for me in Diamond.
: Why TriForce?
It gives you mobility, it gives you burst, it gives you CDR, it gives you 40% AS, and it gives you HP, all on a good build path. What more do you want?
: In what way is {{champion:111}} a better tank than {{champion:54}}? Hello?? That's either super ignorant or super troll.
> [{quoted}](name=FlyingVanilla99,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NXZ7OrVo,comment-id=0009000100000001,timestamp=2016-07-27T19:33:12.751+0000) > > In what way is {{champion:111}} a better tank than {{champion:54}}? Hello?? > > That's either super ignorant or super troll. I'd argue that Naut has far better continuous contribution to a fight, although Malph has better initiation. In terms of control, Malphite is actually very mediocre, but he makes up for it with godlike initiation and insane durability against physical damage. Nautilus by comparison has endless waves of CC that never really stops until he's killed. You can afford to be near a Malphite when his ult is down. Naut, not so much.
Sidestep (NA)
: From personal experience, it's more of a skill matchup however, I've never seen a fiora win that lane. Yasuo can easily take advantage of her immobility when q is on cd early with his e and autos.
It's honestly down to whichever one is more aggressive. This lane very heavily favors the more aggressive player. Early on, Yasuo has more windows to be aggressive due to his higher pushing power but it swings in Fiora's favor once she has Tiamat and ult.
: > [{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=211dipeA,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2016-07-27T18:22:47.658+0000) > > Just build this shit. {{champion:102}} {{item:1416}} {{item:3078}} {{item:3748}}. 1 shot kids. Profit. where is your lifesteal / sustain?
You don't need it. You'll either have won or lost any fight before lifesteal becomes relevant.
: But mid IS my secondary role >_>
Then you're fine. This is entirely for the people that queue mid secondary to try and get their main role more, even though they don't play mid.
: Can we make assassins AFRAID of tanks again?
Assassins have always been able to 1v1 tanks if given the time to do so. The questions is: Why are you 1v1ing assassins as a tank? Tanks are a threat to assassins in teamfights because of their CC and anti-burst potential, not because they can 1v1 the assassin. If you want to beat the assassin 1v1, then bruisers {{champion:102}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:82}} are what you're looking for and always have been. Don't expect to 1v1 Fizz or Zed with Maokai. But Irelia will destroy either of those kids.
: Why is Shyvana worse post-devourer than she was pre-devourer?
Just build this shit. {{champion:102}} {{item:1416}} {{item:3078}} {{item:3748}}. 1 shot kids. Profit.
: Can someone explain Mordekaiser for me?
0.68% playrate. Only a 2000 game sample. Only around 300 games in that particular experience bracket. Expect significant variation due to small sample size.
: The secret method of how to get your primary role 90% of the time
Fuck everyone who does this; this bullshit is half the reason new champ select is so problematic right now.
: Yasuo Nerfs (Don't downvote it just because of the name)
Yasuo sees absolutely no competitive play except as a rare counterpick to Gnar. Yes, he's balanced. No, he's not the elephant in the room. There are like 15 champions that would be the elephant in the room before you even consider Yasuo.
Reéd (NA)
: Yasuo Nerf
I laughed. +1 for you.
: I really don't believe the decision to make Morde a bot laner was bad. The problem was that they flagrantly did it at the expense of every other role he had.
I can't help but feel this was unavoidable. Every time an adc starts to see good success outside of bot lane, it's a problem. Either the adc is forced back into bot lane or leaves bot lane and migrates to another lane. Hell, current Morde is probably the best we've ever had of a bot laner also being balanced in other roles. Unfortunately, nearly every Morde player has abandoned him bot lane similar to how most Graves players have. Both champs are still perfectly fine down there, but people prefer to play them in solo lanes if they're able to do so.
LankPants (OCE)
: There's no real point to playing her mid, her ratios are pretty abysmal. You get most of your damage from a pair of Sorcs and a Void Staff, buying more AP doesn't really increase her damage significantly at all. Zyra simply has bases which are way too high and far too little power in her ratios, which leads to her not needing any AP whatsoever and being better as a support because she does damage even with zero AP.
That's not really true. Both her bases and ratios are high, but that doesn't mean she's worth the gold investment of taking her mid. For a DPS mage, Zyra's ratios are actually rather high: 15% AP on her plants is pretty significant considering how many of them she gets now. But, she still does her job as a support, so you can play her there and send a more gold reliant champion mid instead. Plus, taking her support mitigates her weakness of immobility, similar to how it does for Brand support. Realistically, there's no real difference between Brand support and Zyra support; they go bot because they have low gold reliance and weaknesses that are covered by being in a duo lane. Zyra is still functionally the same champion she was when she came out, and there's a reason they played her mid back then. That reason remains.
: > [{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6yMNjYwn,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2016-07-27T03:51:07.640+0000) > > Let's face it: In an even fight, Irelia doesn't need a passive. This change is to solidify her role as a backline diver rather than just giving her a bunch of all purpose tenacity just because. And in an even team fight 5v5 she now effectively does not have a noticeable passive. Some nerfs are understandable but this one is likely going to hit the experienced Irelia players the hardest.
If you're not diving 1000 units past your team to dunk their adc, then you probably aren't doing your job anyway. That was the whole point of the passive in the first place: make Irelia harder to peel off your back line. But it wasn't just doing that; it was also making her pretty much an unstoppable brick no matter where she was and who she was hitting. It's still an extremely powerful passive for a champion intended to dive enemy squishies. 40% tenacity at lvl 16 is no joke.
: "we are focusing more on the early game" "towers give first blood gold to entire team now"
This is the best change I've seen since they upped the tower kill gold during preseason. Overly safe play has been far too effective for far too long and it's about time the lane bullies of the world actually get a reward for paining a target on their backs every game.
: Okay, Zyra is either a support or she isn't
She's not a support. She's a discount mid laner playing bot with the adc. And most people have judged her weaknesses too crippling to play her mid but her super high gold efficiency makes her worth playing bot. That's really all there is to it. Same concept as Brand and Vel'koz support.
: Meddler context on what you are trying to do with this Irelia passive changes.
Let's face it: In an even fight, Irelia doesn't need a passive. This change is to solidify her role as a backline diver rather than just giving her a bunch of all purpose tenacity just because.
: You don't get the f*cking point, do you?
: I honestly love how versatile Mordekaiser is at the moment
> [{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QT1E9Mvt,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-07-26T12:34:52.648+0000) > Like, you can take him top, mid, jungle and **bot** and still do well, you can go damage, tank or a delightfully painful mix of both to fit any situation- Wtf? You've been shitting on bot lane Morde from the moment it came out. Are you actually telling me it's not terrible?
Rioter Comments
PagRyze (EUW)
: Why AP champions cant have spellvamp but AD champions can ?
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: Anyone ever realize that Jayce has no real counters?
Jayce is countered by picking a champ with a strong ultimate and not feeding him before lvl 6. Pretty simple really.
hudzell (NA)
: Why is every champion on the face of the earth building youmuus?
It's a stupidly good damage item on it's own merits. That's why. Armor Pen + 60 AD + 10% CDR + the active probably makes for the strongest single combat item in the game, with its only real competition being Triforce and Sunfire Cape.
: > [{quoted}](name=Caítlyn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EYEAyzHz,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-07-26T02:36:59.861+0000) > > Where did I say anything about him being OP? > > All I said is he has infinite mobility, which is true. There is no cost, and no cooldown. well, there is no cost on marksmen auto attack range. please justify them being able to inifnitely attack at range for free, while other champions cant.
> [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EYEAyzHz,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2016-07-26T02:37:57.920+0000) > > well, there is no cost on marksmen auto attack range. > > please justify them being able to inifnitely attack at range for free, while other champions cant. You're asking for logic in a thread about Yasuo. Better off trying to cure cancer; you're more likely to succeed at that than you are to get any reasonableness from the mindless Yasuo haters that inhabit this place.
: It's pretty standard practice these days to mix in a bit of %hp damage with most fighter champs. This helps them to have a slightly more similar TTK on tanks, fighters, and other squishies. If we gave them all flat damage, they would often end up just blowing up squishies at unreasonable speeds (see rengar).
> [{quoted}](name=RiotScruffy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3HQ31YMs,comment-id=001e,timestamp=2016-07-25T23:12:58.271+0000) > If we gave them all flat damage, they would often end up just blowing up squishies at unreasonable speeds (see rengar). cough {{champion:39}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:39}} cough. Rework when?
: How the hell am I supposed to prove him guilty? Seriously tell me. 6k games is an awfully bold claim. 1k games is not. I've easily played 1k games of Yasuo between ranked and normals games.
No, his opinion still wouldn't matter because he's an idiot. You can't just remove that much damage from a kit and still have the champion be playable. I've presented a similar case in this thread: make Leblancs W do no damage. It would still proc her Q so it would be ok, right? And yet, everyone here can see how ridiculous that would be. How their logic fails when the topic shifts to his E is a mystery to me; I can only conclude their bias against Yasuo clouds their judgement. Yasuo is massively reliant on his E damage during the laning phase to win trades and all ins; anyone who says otherwise is either kidding themselves or ignorant. No amount of late game compensation that you could give him would make up for making his laning phase unplayable like this. Frankly, I criticized the OP from the start entirely based on his argument; I merely attacked his "6k games on Yasuo" claim because it's a pretty bold and almost certainly untrue attempt to gain credibility. And I really, really don't like when people do that.
: How the hell am I supposed to prove him guilty? Seriously tell me. 6k games is an awfully bold claim. 1k games is not. I've easily played 1k games of Yasuo between ranked and normals games.
Urgot release date: 8/24/2010 Yasuo release date: 12/13/2013 It's been 954 days since Yasuo came out. In order to have 6000 Yasuo games by this point, you'd need to have a good 6.3 Yasuo games every single day since he came out. That's an absolutely insane amount of games, compounded by the fact that Yasuo has been permabanned probably a good 150 out of those 954 days. Urgot, by comparison, has been out for 2105 days. To reach 8k games, you'd only need 3.8 games per day. That is much more reasonable, although I don't know why you'd want to play Urgot that much.
LankPants (OCE)
: >Yasuo's basically non-existent at the pro level Yasuo saw a successful game about 3 days ago in the LCK as a Gnar counterpick. http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/TRKR1/1140705?gameHash=411b62f3020541f5&tab=overview You should probably do a quick fact check before you make claims, he's seen a couple of picks in Korea over the last week or so.
Does it really count if it's by a bottom tier team? Who cares what they're doing; bottom tier teams don't make it to worlds, and that's what we're talking about. All I know is, no top teams give a shit about Yasuo and I have not seen a single Yasuo pick or ban in NA or EU LCS this split.
: > [{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Xd2GopFL,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-07-24T23:35:31.235+0000) > > Rofl. Yasuo's E doing no damage would make him unable to trade with literally everyone. Nice title btw; it takes balls to put such a blatant lie right in your title. Actually,it'd be a neutral buff/nerf,Sure he would be dealing far far far far less damage but he also wouldn't push the lane in whenever he does try to trade
Congrats, he wouldn't push. He also wouldn't be able to trade because he does no fucking damage. Yasuo's E is how he wins trades early game; without it, he loses to basically everyone.
Émiil (NA)
: Pros: - High mobility - Wall that blocks literally any projectile - Shield - Armor pen from ult - Late game high damage - Easy to farm under tower - Some cc - Synergises with so many champs - Looks like a fucking Nobunaga warrior - Plays the flute - Screams ''HASAKI'' all the time Cons: - Hard to master
> [{quoted}](name=Galacticamaru,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Xd2GopFL,comment-id=0029,timestamp=2016-07-25T06:45:19.551+0000) > > Pros: > > - High mobility > - Wall that blocks literally any projectile > - Shield > - Armor pen from ult > - Late game high damage > - Easy to farm under tower > - Some cc * Synergizes well with stats he naturally wants to build anyway * Very high synergy with on hit items * Very low CDR depency > - Synergises with so many champs > - Looks like a fucking Nobunaga warrior > - Plays the flute > - Screams ''HASAKI'' all the time > > > Cons: > > - Hard to master * Extremely item reliant. * Very low base stats. * Still very buggy. * Has little answer for AOE heavy teams. * Unreliable focus mitigation for a melee carry * Highly vulnerable laning phase due to naturally aggressive playstyle and lack of escape * Tends to create bad teams comps by being either an AD mid or a squishy top. * Lacks the tools to deal with melee champs with targeted gapclosers: Jax, Irelia, Master Yi, etc. * Extremely vulnerable to kite based ranged champs whenever windwall is on CD. * Target reliant mobility makes him predictable. * Very reliant on landing highly telegraphed 3rd Q. * Heavy reliance on shield to win trades leaves long periods of vulnerability when it's down. * One of the weakest lvl 6 powerspikes in the game for a melee champion. I saw that you missed a few things so I went ahead and added them in for you.
: 55% is a pretty damn high ratio, even for mains.
> [{quoted}](name=ThreshBodyPillow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Xd2GopFL,comment-id=00050000000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-25T04:22:45.513+0000) > > 55% is a pretty damn high ratio, even for mains. It's actually right about average for champion mains and is surpassed by many supposedly weak champions, such as {{champion:134}} {{champion:91}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:110}} {{champion:5}} {{champion:101}} {{champion:115}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:68}} {{champion:27}} {{champion:83}}
: Akali Vs Nidalee... Which should I choose?
Definitely Akali. She's a lot easier to play than Nidalee and can be built either AP assassin or tanky bruiser, giving her versatility.
: Why does Riot show such double standards when it comes to CC?
It's arguable that it's not necessarily the permaslow that's toxic, but the permaslow in addition to being able to outduel everyone. Bruisers with permaslows are toxic because you can't really fight them either. Most mages at least give you the opportunity to engage on them and kill them, with Azir being the obvious and most blatant exception. The counterplay to bruisers is supposed to be kiting them but permaslows basically removed that counterplay. While annoying, permaslows on champs like Azir don't remove their intended counterplay: pile them with multiple people, all in them, or blow them up from range.
: Only 1 reason: faker plays it and reks everyone else
I wish. But Faker hasn't playing Yasuo competitively since Season 4.
: Which champions will never be picked or banned at worlds this year ?
{{champion:157}}. Sorry haters, but you know it's true. Yasuo's basically non-existent at the pro level right now and I don't see any reason that would change any time soon.
Kiokami (NA)
: "don't pick yas first pick you're gonna get destroyed"
To be fair, Yasuo isn't nearly as counterable as he used to be simply due to new itemization paths that have emerged. I still wouldn't want to lane against an Annie but PD Hexdrinker makes the 1v1 winnable for me.
Hibeki (NA)
: Can we make Gromp buff actually worth it?
I haven't found it makes much of a difference either way. I finish my clears with around the same health whether I start gromp or krugs. This seems to imply they're fairly equal in power early on.
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Slamurai Jack

Level 30 (NA)
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