: RNG should not be apart of a champions Kit
>That being said if a vital is facing directly at her she's either gonna get free %hp true damage (why though?) and heal (but why?) But why does a champs kit do something? What is the point of the but why’s? “Ugh why does this champions kit do damage ugh what the fuck!” This complaint makes no sense. And Fioras vitals follow a pattern. The first viral always spawns facing blue base, then it’ll be back or down, then front or up. It never spawns unfairly, so once a fight starts it’s quite possible to keep her away from it. And if she Qs aggressively for it in lane she can be punished.
: Every champ released in the last 2 years needs to just be removed/reverted
Fiora was reworked r years ago, so... not sure why she’s on your list.
: > [{quoted}](name=Small PP Player,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=9dFTR5co,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-11T02:31:14.419+0000) > > ..Removed by Moderation.. Was the insult neccessary? I think not.
I think it was. You don’t understand a character you don’t play so you want it changed because it doesn’t agree with your blanket idea of what a character should be.
: [Fiora rework concept]
How exactly did she lose her duelist thematic? Not only is she one of the best duelists in the game, out side of the stat check Yi, Fiora has the tools to beat pretty much everyone. Her entire kit is single target, because she is centered around 1v1ing. Pretty duelisty if you ask me.
: > [{quoted}](name=Small PP Player,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Rc6YRLc6,comment-id=000400000000000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-10T23:05:54.275+0000) > > Her allies being inspired by her does not make her any less of a lone wolf. Your argument makes no sense. Its not like shes Janna or Soraka, the heal is completely different in terms of how its applied. And its not "it just happens". You saying that makes it clear you didnt read, didnt understand, or refuse to try and understand what im saying. > > Heres how it would be from a more "in lore perspective". Take for example the part in the new cinematic where Sion comes rushing forward. Fiora takes an enemy like that on, and beats him. In front of everyone. Thats going to inspire people regardless of why she or they are fighting. Thats what the heal is supposed to be. It doesn't just "happen". It doesn't break her character. She doesn't care that she inspires her allies, shes doing it for herself, anything with her allies is an after effect. > > What did i clearly not read? I replied to what you said in your argument to me. The part where you say showmanship isn't her thing? Her ult isn't putting on a show. Never once did i say she inspires them because of how she beat them, just that she beat them. I've read Fiora's lore, i know her character, she doesn't care about showing off, but i didnt say she did so if thats how you took thats on you. Her ult is not bragging, boasting or anything of the sort. The heal for her, is her focusing and continuing to fight. For her allies they are inspired. Tell me how that breaks her character. How does that make her any less of a lone wolf? Shes not beating her enemy for the sake of inspiring her allies, but it doesn't change the fact that she did. > > I'm not sure what makes you the authority on the character to dismiss me, considering you never play them and are never active in threads concerning the champ. Especially considering you still think shes an arrogant character, and the only times you are is when it comes to the old Fiora thats been out of the game for 4 years. Again, your argument boils down to "it just happens". Why? Because you can replace Fiora with Jarvan and the result is the same. You can substitute Sion for any massive sized character and the effect would be the same. THAT is where I have a problem with your argument and why it is ultimately flawed when used to justify Fiora's heal. Remember the Elementalist Lux cinematic? She took down Malphite with her ultimate. Anyone watching that would have been similarly inspired. So why isn't Lux's ultimate healing everyone in an area? Because despite being a generally inspiring champion, her ability to use light does not allow her to heal. The only champion where this inspiration logic is justified is Draven because he is described as a showman first and foremost. He wants the eyes on him and his job is to excite everyone around him by being the center of attention. Being applied via "inspiration" doesn't work within Fiora's trappings (who she is as a character and her abilities as one). If the explanation above involving substitution doesn't make it clear for you, then we're simply done and we will have to agree to disagree. P.S. - Fiora is so prideful that she kills for even minor insults. All you have to do for proof of that is click "learn more" on her champion page in the client and read everything from there. If that doesn't solidify why "inspiration" doesn't fit her, then you are refusing to think critically about her character.
> [{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Rc6YRLc6,comment-id=0004000000000001000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-10T23:37:40.030+0000) > > Again, your argument boils down to "it just happens". Why? Because you can replace Fiora with Jarvan and the result is the same. You can substitute Sion for any massive sized character and the effect would be the same. THAT is where I have a problem with your argument and why it is ultimately flawed when used to justify Fiora's heal. Like i said, the heal is primarily for herself. Why it can't be substituted with Jarvan is because Jarvan isn't going to go in and take down the biggest guy in a one on one. And yeah the point of using Sion was an example, it doesn't matter who you substitute it with. My point was, in that situation it took 4-5 people, Fiora would have done it alone, thats where the inspiration comes from. She would have done what took multiple people, thats why she'd inspire them. But like ive stressed, the heal is primarily for herself, to keep her fighting. She doesn't care if the people are impressed by watching her. >Remember the Elementalist Lux cinematic? She took down Malphite with her ultimate. Anyone watching that would have been similarly inspired. So why isn't Lux's ultimate healing everyone in an area? Because despite being a generally inspiring champion, her ability to use light does not allow her to heal. Its different to see someone blow something up from far away with magic, and someone to go in and take a giant thing down with only a sword and skill. >Being applied via "inspiration" doesn't work within Fiora's trappings (who she is as a character and her abilities as one). If the explanation above involving substitution doesn't make it clear for you, then we're simply done and we will have to agree to disagree. The substitution example doesn't work, heres why. Characters have strengths, weaknesses, traits whatever. Jarvan is a leader, Fiora is an exceptionally skilled fighter, one of the best combatants in lore. Its likely shes a better fighter than Jarvan. Fiora can beat enemies Jarvan can't. But Jarvan is still going to lead his troops better. Thats why i used the Sion example. Its quite probable Fiora could have beat him alone, that would inspire people. Thats her strength, fighting people, finding their weaknesses. Jarvan's strength is leading. > P.S. - Fiora is so prideful that she kills for even minor insults. All you have to do for proof of that is click "learn more" on her champion page in the client and read everything from there. If that doesn't solidify why "inspiration" doesn't fit her, then you are refusing to think critically about her character. She kills because they insulted her and her house. In her head if anyone is allowed to talk shit about her, then everyone will think its ok, therefore every time it happens it needs to be dealt with. The inspiration comes from them being impressed with her skill, not her reasonings. Its not just that "shes so prideful she can't stand people saying bad stuff about her". Its that her house's name and reputation is in the dirt and if people are allowed to slander the work shes done to restore it, whats to stop everyone from saying the same thing, especially when what is being said is lies.
: > [{quoted}](name=Small PP Player,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Rc6YRLc6,comment-id=0004000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-10T20:48:31.901+0000) > > . > > Its her only contribution, she has no AOE, no on command CC, she cant front line, shes a a squishy melee with literally no way to meaningfully help the team without it. Everything else in her kit is tailored for a duelist, except the after effect on her ult. > > As much as i really like the old ult and wish they had found a way to reincorporate it back into her kit, the ability lacked any and all counter play except Zhonya's. and stealth. And if those were used on it Fiora couldn't do anything. Fiora's old kit is like Yi, it's a stat check that is just frustrating to deal with. > > It is her ideal and most prominent way of contributing. But her having an AOE heal for team fights doesn't take away that her main priority is split pushing. No one is saying that by having the heal she can't split. No one is saying that by having the heal she can't duel. The majority of the time, that heal is used only for Fiora when shes 1v1,2,3 in the side lane. > > (that is completely different from every heal, as in nots some magic like Soraka or Janna, its more of an inspiration thing) > > Fiora's team fighting is still her weakest aspect. Just because she has one contribution doesn't mean it makes her all about team fighting. Its vrey evident team fighting is her biggest weakness, in team fights, she still gets focused down by the enemy ranged champs, and a single CC means she dead. The heal doesn't suddenly make her a god tier team fighter, its just... something. A lot of the time it goes unnoticed. Other split pushers have a way to contribute to team fights, this is Fiora's. Jax is tanky and has an AOE stun, Camille has cc and her cage, Trynd has an AOE slow and the fact that the enemy has to continue to waste time on him once hes already dead. Yi has AOE and insane burst. You get it? They all have something. > > I say it breaks neither. Look at it like this, her R for her focusing, or getting her second wind, its to keep her going, to keep her fighting. The AOE aspect is like an inspiration to her allies, they just watch her kill their "champion" and are motivated to continue the fight. Its not like she says some chant and heals her team as a support, its not like she is some divine aspect blessing her team, no shes a girl with a sword who cut down the enemies biggest guy and now the team is rallied. How does that break anything? > > Have you even read her new lore? Fiora is not arrogant anymore. It was changed in her update. It even states in her lore, "His anger at what he assumed was her arrogance overcame his fear and he stamped forward" People misunderstand her, she wasn't boasting about her skill, she wasn't shit talking, all she said is "All here know my skill with a blade, so choose to live and wear your wound as a badge of honor. Or choose death, and be food for crows by midmorning." She is not an arrogant charcter anymore. > > It doesn't matter if she cares if she likes them, they can still be inspired by what she did. The two aren't mutually exclusive. > > Its not about her wanting to, and the heal isn't like divine winds or some shit washing over them and healing them that Fiora called down specifically for them, its an inspiration type thing. It doesn't matter if she wanted to inspire them or not, she still did. Okay, here's where I gotta outright dismiss you. > Its not about her wanting to, and the heal isn't like divine winds or some shit washing over them and healing them that Fiora called down specifically for them, its an inspiration type thing. It doesn't matter if she wanted to inspire them or not, she still did. Again, happening at all breaks her theme and her personality. That heal being on Draven is about as thematic as it gets. But NOOOOO! It has to be on the lone wolf and "it just happens"! I'm not even going to address how you've clearly not read the rest of the thread for the answers to the rest of your post.
> [{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Rc6YRLc6,comment-id=00040000000000010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-10T21:49:17.280+0000) > > Okay, here's where I gotta outright dismiss you. > > Again, happening at all breaks her theme and her personality. That heal being on Draven is about as thematic as it gets. But NOOOOO! It has to be on the lone wolf and "it just happens"! > > I'm not even going to address how you've clearly not read the rest of the thread for the answers to the rest of your post. Her allies being inspired by her does not make her any less of a lone wolf. Your argument makes no sense. Its not like shes Janna or Soraka, the heal is completely different in terms of how its applied. And its not "it just happens". You saying that makes it clear you didnt read, didnt understand, or refuse to try and understand what im saying. Heres how it would be from a more "in lore perspective". Take for example the part in the new cinematic where Sion comes rushing forward. Fiora takes an enemy like that on, and beats him. In front of everyone. Thats going to inspire people regardless of why she or they are fighting. Thats what the heal is supposed to be. It doesn't just "happen". It doesn't break her character. She doesn't care that she inspires her allies, shes doing it for herself, anything with her allies is an after effect. What did i clearly not read? I replied to what you said in your argument to me. The part where you say showmanship isn't her thing? Her ult isn't putting on a show. Never once did i say she inspires them because of how she beat them, just that she beat them. I've read Fiora's lore, i know her character, she doesn't care about showing off, but i didnt say she did so if thats how you took thats on you. Her ult is not bragging, boasting or anything of the sort. The heal for her, is her focusing and continuing to fight. For her allies they are inspired. Tell me how that breaks her character. How does that make her any less of a lone wolf? Shes not beating her enemy for the sake of inspiring her allies, but it doesn't change the fact that she did. I'm not sure what makes you the authority on the character to dismiss me, considering you never play them and are never active in threads concerning the champ. Especially considering you still think shes an arrogant character, and the only times you are is when it comes to the old Fiora thats been out of the game for 4 years.
: > [{quoted}](name=Small PP Player,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Rc6YRLc6,comment-id=00040000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-10T15:21:52.404+0000) > > The heal is to keep her in the fight as long as possible. It’s to keep her going. How does that not fit a duelist? And it’s AOE is so she has some contribution to her team. Otherwise she’d literally bring nothing useful to her team than killing one guy. Because "directly contributing to the team" isn't inherently part of a duelist and in this particular case, it's breaking the cohesion by being a heal. At least her old ultimate dealt "aoe" damage even though it was still better for dueling scenarios. Tiamat helped cover the team fight weakness of the ability but still didn't make it better as a team skill versus duelist skill. Also, there's the concept of split pushing. You don't help the team directly by joining team fights. You create pressure elsewhere to give your team more openings for winning the game. In fact, within a game that's SUPPOSED to be based on objectives, split pushing should be the ideal means for a duelist to contribute to the team. I'm going to add that, by making it a heal so she can contribute directly to the team, it breaks good design by giving her an added tool to cover a major weakness so said problem isn't as prominent. Champions should have clear weaknesses and defined strengths. Fiora shouldn't be allowed to contribute a heal to her team. It doesn't just break her character, it breaks her theme. Fiora is a prideful, arrogant, and with the skills to back it up. She doesn't give two shits about someone else liking her or being grateful if she happens to help. All of her interests are selfish and she will go to extreme lengths over a minor insult towards her or her house. At what point would such a person want to heal anyone else?
> [{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Rc6YRLc6,comment-id=000400000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-10T15:39:56.529+0000) > > Because "directly contributing to the team" isn't inherently part of a duelist and in this particular case, it's breaking the cohesion by being a heal. > > At least her old ultimate dealt "aoe" damage even though it was still better for dueling scenarios. Tiamat helped cover the team fight weakness of the ability but still didn't make it better as a team skill versus duelist skill. > > Also, there's the concept of split pushing. You don't help the team directly by joining team fights. You create pressure elsewhere to give your team more openings for winning the game. In fact, within a game that's SUPPOSED to be based on objectives, split pushing should be the ideal means for a duelist to contribute to the team. > > I'm going to add that, by making it a heal so she can contribute directly to the team, it breaks good design by giving her an added tool to cover a major weakness so said problem isn't as prominent. Champions should have clear weaknesses and defined strengths. Fiora shouldn't be allowed to contribute a heal to her team. It doesn't just break her character, it breaks her theme. > > Fiora is a prideful, arrogant, and with the skills to back it up. She doesn't give two shits about someone else liking her or being grateful if she happens to help. All of her interests are selfish and she will go to extreme lengths over a minor insult towards her or her house. At what point would such a person want to heal anyone else? . > Because "directly contributing to the team" isn't inherently part of a duelist and in this particular case, it's breaking the cohesion by being a heal. Its her only contribution, she has no AOE, no on command CC, she cant front line, shes a a squishy melee with literally no way to meaningfully help the team without it. Everything else in her kit is tailored for a duelist, except the after effect on her ult. > At least her old ultimate dealt "aoe" damage even though it was still better for dueling scenarios. Tiamat helped cover the team fight weakness of the ability but still didn't make it better as a team skill versus duelist skill. As much as i really like the old ult and wish they had found a way to reincorporate it back into her kit, the ability lacked any and all counter play except Zhonya's. and stealth. And if those were used on it Fiora couldn't do anything. Fiora's old kit is like Yi, it's a stat check that is just frustrating to deal with. >Also, there's the concept of split pushing. You don't help the team directly by joining team fights. You create pressure elsewhere to give your team more openings for winning the game. In fact, within a game that's SUPPOSED to be based on objectives, split pushing should be the ideal means for a duelist to contribute to the team. It is her ideal and most prominent way of contributing. But her having an AOE heal for team fights doesn't take away that her main priority is split pushing. No one is saying that by having the heal she can't split. No one is saying that by having the heal she can't duel. The majority of the time, that heal is used only for Fiora when shes 1v1,2,3 in the side lane. (that is completely different from every heal, as in nots some magic like Soraka or Janna, its more of an inspiration thing) >I'm going to add that, by making it a heal so she can contribute directly to the team, it breaks good design by giving her an added tool to cover a major weakness so said problem isn't as prominent. Champions should have clear weaknesses and defined strengths. Fiora shouldn't be allowed to contribute a heal to her team. It doesn't just break her character, it breaks her theme. Fiora's team fighting is still her weakest aspect. Just because she has one contribution doesn't mean it makes her all about team fighting. Its vrey evident team fighting is her biggest weakness, in team fights, she still gets focused down by the enemy ranged champs, and a single CC means she dead. The heal doesn't suddenly make her a god tier team fighter, its just... something. A lot of the time it goes unnoticed. Other split pushers have a way to contribute to team fights, this is Fiora's. Jax is tanky and has an AOE stun, Camille has cc and her cage, Trynd has an AOE slow and the fact that the enemy has to continue to waste time on him once hes already dead. Yi has AOE and insane burst. You get it? They all have something. > It doesn't just break her character, it breaks her theme. I say it breaks neither. Look at it like this, her R for her focusing, or getting her second wind, its to keep her going, to keep her fighting. The AOE aspect is like an inspiration to her allies, they just watch her kill their "champion" and are motivated to continue the fight. Its not like she says some chant and heals her team as a support, its not like she is some divine aspect blessing her team, no shes a girl with a sword who cut down the enemies biggest guy and now the team is rallied. How does that break anything? >Fiora is a prideful, arrogant Have you even read her new lore? Fiora is not arrogant anymore. It was changed in her update. It even states in her lore, "His anger at what he assumed was her arrogance overcame his fear and he stamped forward" People misunderstand her, she wasn't boasting about her skill, she wasn't shit talking, all she said is "All here know my skill with a blade, so choose to live and wear your wound as a badge of honor. Or choose death, and be food for crows by midmorning." She is not an arrogant charcter anymore. >She doesn't give two shits about someone else liking her or being grateful if she happens to help. It doesn't matter if she cares if she likes them, they can still be inspired by what she did. The two aren't mutually exclusive. >All of her interests are selfish and she will go to extreme lengths over a minor insult towards her or her house. At what point would such a person want to heal anyone else? Its not about her wanting to, and the heal isn't like divine winds or some shit washing over them and healing them that Fiora called down specifically for them, its an inspiration type thing. It doesn't matter if she wanted to inspire them or not, she still did.
: > [{quoted}](name=Small PP Player,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Rc6YRLc6,comment-id=000400000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-05-10T04:35:55.561+0000) > > Have you read Fioras new lore? She’s serious and direct in fights, it makes perfect sense for her to have a second wind or focus more. The fact it’s AOE Thematically can be looked at as people being impressed or whatever, but without the AOE in game, she’s literally have no contribution to the team. What part of "the execution isn't second wind/focus" was missed? Making it an on-ground AOE heal denies the second wind deal and is DEFINITELY not a matter of focus either. This is what I mean by "the heal isn't thematic/functional". It doesn't go with a duelist's kit or theme.
> [{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Rc6YRLc6,comment-id=0004000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-10T11:52:46.364+0000) > > What part of "the execution isn't second wind/focus" was missed? Making it an on-ground AOE heal denies the second wind deal and is DEFINITELY not a matter of focus either. > > This is what I mean by "the heal isn't thematic/functional". It doesn't go with a duelist's kit or theme. The heal is to keep her in the fight as long as possible. It’s to keep her going. How does that not fit a duelist? And it’s AOE is so she has some contribution to her team. Otherwise she’d literally bring nothing useful to her team than killing one guy.
: > [{quoted}](name=Small PP Player,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Rc6YRLc6,comment-id=0004000000000001,timestamp=2019-05-10T03:48:09.982+0000) > > Her ult doesn’t have anything to do with dominance. A roofer even said when she was reworked it’s a second wind/focus type thing. It’s not her boasting or anything. The execution doesn't come off as "second wind" as a massive AOE heal and Rioters even said "it's so she had something for team fights". For someone who wants to be the best duelist, why is she given this gigantic aoe with a huge heal? That's not second wind or focus related at all. No matter how you slice it, it doesn't work thematically and is only half functional within her kit.
> [{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Rc6YRLc6,comment-id=00040000000000010000,timestamp=2019-05-10T03:53:56.984+0000) > > The execution doesn't come off as "second wind" as a massive AOE heal and Rioters even said "it's so she had something for team fights". > > For someone who wants to be the best duelist, why is she given this gigantic aoe with a huge heal? That's not second wind or focus related at all. > > No matter how you slice it, it doesn't work thematically and is only half functional within her kit. Have you read Fioras new lore? She’s serious and direct in fights, it makes perfect sense for her to have a second wind or focus more. The fact it’s AOE Thematically can be looked at as people being impressed or whatever, but without the AOE in game, she’s literally have no contribution to the team.
: > [{quoted}](name=Quinn Is Bae,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Rc6YRLc6,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-05-10T00:26:53.231+0000) > > Her ult is legit unwanted and garbage, let's face it. I tried to play her recently and never the ult was useful, it never helped me doing anything and was more a waste of spell. "She's showing her dominance and putting on a show!" Dominance isn't really her deal. It's simply being the best. And showmanship is Draven's deal, not hers. She's got pride, but not the type that wants to make a spectacle.
> [{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Rc6YRLc6,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-05-10T00:51:03.710+0000) > > "She's showing her dominance and putting on a show!" > > Dominance isn't really her deal. It's simply being the best. And showmanship is Draven's deal, not hers. She's got pride, but not the type that wants to make a spectacle. Her ult doesn’t have anything to do with dominance. A roofer even said when she was reworked it’s a second wind/focus type thing. It’s not her boasting or anything.
Galiö (NA)
: So focusing is invegarating and life giving. But life given-magic eater doesnt heal.
What happens in game isn't 100% exactly what the champion does. Its like this. Fiora is fighting her opponent, Fiora is getting hurt, she calms down and focuses, aka, she heals. Its not, She calms down and suddenly the cut on her arm seals up.
Galiö (NA)
: Things that dont make much sense about Galio
>Why doesnt he Heal off magic Fiora heals off whacking people? Rioters that worked on her rework already said the heal is her focusig, and the ult is her “second wind”.
: Fiora vital bug.
It’s not just iG, it’s a Fiora bug in general.
: > [{quoted}](name=Small PP Player,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sKw7altT,comment-id=0000000000010001,timestamp=2019-05-04T00:06:09.145+0000) > > Heres the difference, Veigar is ranged with AOE, Fiora is melee with all single target and a difficult to pull of passive, especially in team fights. Veigar presses R, Fiora has to play an entire mini game. Veigar is ranged, Fiora is not. Different characters work differently, weird. Fiora’s mechnics aren’t what I would call difficult. Especially when she has a resetting/ stupid low cd dash that procs the marks.
There’s a reason Fioras win rate is low until people have a lot of games played. Just because you don’t think she’s difficult doesn’t make it so.
: At least Veigar's you can itemize against. Fiora lacks any counterplay in terms of itemization.
Heres the difference, Veigar is ranged with AOE, Fiora is melee with all single target and a difficult to pull of passive, especially in team fights. Veigar presses R, Fiora has to play an entire mini game. Veigar is ranged, Fiora is not. Different characters work differently, weird.
: > [{quoted}](name=Small PP Player,realm=NA,application-id=GgNYATV4,discussion-id=L5EZZajE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-03T20:58:23.832+0000) > > Calm down Hashinshin. If you’re gonna have a rant, why not put your own ideas instead of literally saying word for word what hashshin squealed out in his stream yesterday. hey have you ever thought that many people could have the same problem with the bullshit champion. Fiora was given the rework in 2015. that is four fucking years that riposte hasn't been working as intended. laning phase is so in her favor to win, legit the only way you beat her in lane is to pick a champion that is more bullshit than her. on riots home page they say they value player experience, though its funny that whenever a bullshit champion has bugs that favor her, people ignore it however whenever its not in there favor it goes completely ignored
How is laning phase so far in her favor? Champs with any poke can beat her or champs that can just brute force, which is a lot. Just because it requires a different play style than on other champs doesn't mean it can't be done. In all ins you kite to the direction the vital is, she'll have a hard time getting to it even with Q. And what bugs favor her? People mistiming their cc isnt a Fiora bug. How about the bug where you can hit a vital and it won't proc, wait no that, thats against her. Or the one where Q will go for targets that are lower on the prioritization queue? Again, thats against her. Which bugs make her game breaking?
: riot wtf blance fiora
Calm down Hashinshin. If you’re gonna have a rant, why not put your own ideas instead of literally saying word for word what hashshin squealed out in his stream yesterday.
: Ekko has Academy so I don't think so. Would have liked Taliyah instead of Lux tbh
And Ezreal and Lux both have Star Guardian, you cant use that excuse.
Kazekiba (NA)
: >abomination they originally tried to ship. I'll have to check this, I don't remember it being even WORSE. Yikes
https://news-a.akamaihd.net/public/images/articles/2015/july_2015/FUA/img/F_TN.jpg This shit. the new one is so much better than this.
Kazekiba (NA)
: I dig your analysis but the problem with Fiora is, she was once extremely popular so Riot copypasted her but better with Camille. Reading your post, I forgot which champ we were talking about. And that sucks, I like Fiora as a character much more than Cyborg Grandma. When she gets a new lore change I hope it doesn't make her magical in any way, has nothimh to do with mages or Galio at all, and gives her a girlfriend. Without killing her off. Im also hoping Riot doesnt just copypaste her VO for the story's dialogue the way they did Jinx. (Like. Word for word. Look it up, the wedding crasher thing. Laziest story ive ever read.) and in fact, would totally be excited for a VO update! (And a return to her old visuals but neither here nor there. Meh still hate her new face/hair)
Riot copy pasted her old lore, which is fine, I think they did a good job designing her new story. I like the emotion put in with her father. As far as the arrogance, I don’t miss it, it fit, but her new personality is just more likeable imo. I don’t think riot would copy paste her VO, she already has a really small dialogue pool, they could give her more lines to expand her personality. At least with Lux she has like 30 minutes of dialogue. And as far as the face/hair, I’m just happy they aged her down and didn’t use that abomination they originally tried to ship.
: CLEARLY she's racist, she attacked a poor innocent Shuriman Sand Troll {{champion:24}} who just wanted to fish on the bridge.
And eat his eggs, don’t forget that.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Small PP Player,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=gP803768,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-25T19:46:55.011+0000) > > This is much easier said than done. When the enemy team pushes in starts sieging it gets to a point where a fight is near inevitable. > > This is my entire argument, tanks outscale because of their team fight ability. Fiora doesn’t take objectives quickly until 3 items, meanwhile tanks can press their advantage way before that. not sure in what elo you play the only problems i have when i am splitting is if my team decides to bring everyone to me that is the moment my team plays into the strengths of the enemy team fiora can pressure objectives from tiamat and trinity thats about the time she gets out of lane if the tank has bramble then yes 3 items but as long as she can sidelane for 5 minutes she will get them and be fine jax also scales at 3 items but we don't see jax being a bad champion now do we
> [{quoted}](name=Ornndyr2k19,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=gP803768,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-28T19:14:14.756+0000) > > not sure in what elo you play > the only problems i have when i am splitting is if my team decides to bring everyone to me > that is the moment my team plays into the strengths of the enemy team > > fiora can pressure objectives from tiamat and trinity > thats about the time she gets out of lane > > if the tank has bramble then yes 3 items but as long as she can sidelane for 5 minutes she will get them and be fine > > jax also scales at 3 items but we don't see jax being a bad champion now do we You are completely missing my point. What I’m saying is, before Fiora can press her win condition tanks can press theirs. As they are able to able to set up team fights before Fiora becomes a huge split push threat. I’m not arguing if Fiora needs buffs or is too strong or too weak. I’m arguing that Fiora does not hard counter tanks as everyone thinks. The only reason I bring up three items is because that’s when she becomes an unignorable threat and can access her win condition. But tanks have time before that to force team fights where Fiora can’t really push objectives that fast.
Taimi (EUW)
: But, correct me if i am wrong, but immobile means that she cant move or has to stop any movement. Therefore she should stop, since every other champion is restricted to this interaction.
The command from Q still goes, this is an intended mechanic.
Taimi (EUW)
: Fiora and Veigar E Interaction
It’s not a bug. Fiora W’s while In Q, thus sliding. She can’t take any action once W is pressed but the command from Q is still active. It’s an intended effect.
: > [{quoted}](name=Small PP Player,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=gP803768,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-25T18:53:43.135+0000) > > I’m not comparing her team fight to tanks team fight. I’m saying why she doesn’t counter tanks as everyone thinks. Yes IF a tank tries to 1v1 Fiora after she gets enough items then yes she’ll shred him, that’s non negotiable. But all tanks have to do is group and team fight, where they’re much better, and force team fights where it’s 4v5. That’s how tanks win games vs Fiora, they don’t try and fight her, they win the game by team fighting, where Fiora has to try and take the base while her team 4v5s. Which, as league is very team fight centered, means tanks have a better chance at winning. Fiora doesn’t take towers fast until 3 items, at that point tanks, even if they got smashed in lane, have plenty of time to get their advantage. > > What my point is, is yes in a 1v1 Fiora will be tanks, but that’s not a “counter”. Tanks easily capitalize on Fiora’s biggest weakness, which is team fighting. Which is why I say Fiora isn’t a tank counter, tanks don’t have to play her game, they don’t have to duel. Other split pushers do, which is why I said Fiora is actually better vs them because she really gets a chance for her win condition. then they lose their base someone has to cover for the split pusher this is the whole incentive behind split pushing you are STRONGER than anyone at a certain point and they need to send 2 people to defend their structures Yes the tank can just go team fight and group and your team just has to not get caught and clear the waves and suddenly your team is getting ahead in objectives while their team is trying to figure out why they aren't doing anything being a counter isn't just smashing your opponent through every point in the game a counter is also a champion that prevents you from acting on your desired strengths in a game
> [{quoted}](name=Ornndyr2k19,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=gP803768,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-25T19:37:50.526+0000) > > then they lose their base > someone has to cover for the split pusher > this is the whole incentive behind split pushing > you are STRONGER than anyone at a certain point and they need to send 2 people to defend their structures > > Yes the tank can just go team fight and group > and your team just has to not get caught and clear the waves > and suddenly your team is getting ahead in objectives while their team is trying to figure out why they aren't doing anything > > being a counter isn't just smashing your opponent through every point in the game > a counter is also a champion that prevents you from acting on your desired strengths in a game . > you are STRONGER than anyone at a certain point and they need to send 2 people to defend their structures Which is not exclusive to tanks. But other split pushers won’t have the fallback teamfight presence of a tank, meaning once Fiora gets the 1v1 advantage and she starts dueling their split pusher and whoever else, the enemy team won’t have that lockdown a tank would still give. >Yes the tank can just go team fight and group > and your team just has to not get caught and clear the waves > and suddenly your team is getting ahead in objectives while their team is trying to figure out why they aren't doing anything This is much easier said than done. When the enemy team pushes in starts sieging it gets to a point where a fight is near inevitable. >being a counter isn't just smashing your opponent through every point in the game > a counter is also a champion that prevents you from acting on your desired strengths in a Game This is my entire argument, tanks outscale because of their team fight ability. Fiora doesn’t take objectives quickly until 3 items, meanwhile tanks can press their advantage way before that.
: > [{quoted}](name=Small PP Player,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=gP803768,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-25T16:31:31.994+0000) > > . > > I’m not coming at you with hashinshin arguments, I’m coming at you with a shit Tom of experience on the champion X for doubt since you have 5 games on fiora for the last 3 years Normals are completely irrelevant im sure your experience on a champion far outweighs the specific design decisions riot made when designing the fiora rework during the tank heavy meta "None of that is exclusively good vs tanks tho" are you sure we are playing the same game? because from that i think you are playing dota or something instead "I know nobody team fights as good as tanks." Then why even compare her teamfighting to tanks when her whole game plan every game is to out splitpush a tank and then flank due to priority or just chain kill the tank 1on1? Her AOE heal is just there to give SOME incentive to team fight "SOME" incentive They didn't want a nasus with true damage thats why they gave her the AOE ult heal but the motivation behind proccing it isn't to heal her team but to heal HERSELF Fiora is a duelist split pusher who excels at killing people 1 on 1 Her Q Her W Her E Her R are all Single Target She buys hydra So she can actually pressure waves because tanks have huge wave priority over her This is why SHE IS ITEM GATED There is no point in arguing that bramble counters her because she isn't supposed to win lane at all This is proven With a simple OPGG of her STATS THAT TELL US that her win rate goes up by 4% from 48 to 52 after min 35 the fact that she has to win lane to be the main carry later on is the balance fumble riot made Her design is to split and pressure a tank not bruisers not mages not adcs... she is designed to fight tanks specifically Instead of blindly arguing against me based on your awesome assumptions stop for a while and listen to what im trying to tell you because maybe just maybe i know a lot more about the designs of champions than you do her current power in the bruiser meta is completely irrelevant because the champion isn't supposed to win lane while bruisers ARE supposed to win lane If she wins lane the bruisers unimaginably fucked up
> [{quoted}](name=Ornndyr2k19,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=gP803768,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-25T18:38:08.342+0000) > > X for doubt since you have 5 games on fiora for the last 3 years > Normals are completely irrelevant > > im sure your experience on a champion far outweighs the specific design decisions riot made when designing the fiora rework during the tank heavy meta > > "None of that is exclusively good vs tanks tho" > > are you sure we are playing the same game? > because from that i think you are playing dota or something instead > > "I know nobody team fights as good as tanks." > Then why even compare her teamfighting to tanks when her whole game plan every game is to out splitpush a tank and then flank due to priority or just chain kill the tank 1on1? > Her AOE heal is just there to give SOME incentive to team fight "SOME" incentive They didn't want a nasus with true damage thats why they gave her the AOE ult heal but the motivation behind proccing it isn't to heal her team but to heal HERSELF > > Fiora is a duelist split pusher who excels at killing people 1 on 1 > Her Q Her W Her E Her R are all Single Target > She buys hydra So she can actually pressure waves because tanks have huge wave priority over her > This is why SHE IS ITEM GATED > There is no point in arguing that bramble counters her because she isn't supposed to win lane at all > This is proven With a simple OPGG of her STATS THAT TELL US that her win rate goes up by 4% from 48 to 52 after min 35 > > the fact that she has to win lane to be the main carry later on is the balance fumble riot made > Her design is to split and pressure a tank not bruisers not mages not adcs... she is designed to fight tanks specifically > > Instead of blindly arguing against me based on your awesome assumptions stop for a while and listen to what im trying to tell you > because maybe just maybe i know a lot more about the designs of champions than you do > > her current power in the bruiser meta is completely irrelevant because the champion isn't supposed to win lane while bruisers ARE supposed to win lane > If she wins lane the bruisers unimaginably fucked up . > "I know nobody team fights as good as tanks." > Then why even compare her teamfighting to tanks I’m not comparing her team fight to tanks team fight. I’m saying why she doesn’t counter tanks as everyone thinks. Yes IF a tank tries to 1v1 Fiora after she gets enough items then yes she’ll shred him, that’s non negotiable. But all tanks have to do is group and team fight, where they’re much better, and force team fights where it’s 4v5. That’s how tanks win games vs Fiora, they don’t try and fight her, they win the game by team fighting, where Fiora has to try and take the base while her team 4v5s. Which, as league is very team fight centered, means tanks have a better chance at winning. Fiora doesn’t take towers fast until 3 items, at that point tanks, even if they got smashed in lane, have plenty of time to get their advantage. What my point is, is yes in a 1v1 Fiora will be tanks, but that’s not a “counter”. Tanks easily capitalize on Fiora’s biggest weakness, which is team fighting. Which is why I say Fiora isn’t a tank counter, tanks don’t have to play her game, they don’t have to duel. Other split pushers do, which is why I said Fiora is actually better vs them because she really gets a chance for her win condition. >There is no point in arguing that bramble counters her because she isn't supposed to win lane at all I’m not arguing bramble counters her lane, I’m saying it counters her biggest team fight contribution, which is her ult heal. > Her design is to split and pressure a tank not bruisers not mages not adcs... she is designed No, her design is to make her threat vs people equally. Fiora has the same time to kill on a Darius or a Garen or an Irelia that she does on a maokai or a Sion or an Ornn. Fiora is a splitpush threat regardless of the enemy. It’s not like she’s unable to do damage to anyone else. Fiora hard counters champs like Irelia, Aatrox, Yasuo, and then she has skill match ups in riven, jax, gangplank, other champs that split push. She doesn’t exist to counter tanks, she exists to win 1v1 and split. I’m not arguing blindly, that’s literally the champions design. >Fiora is a duelist split pusher who excels at killing people 1 on 1 Yes exactly, not just tanks, anyone. That’s the point of %max hp damage. It makes her a threat to everyone. If it was flat any type of damage it becomes too good vs squishy characters, while falling off vs tanks/bruisers. But if it’s %max hp true damage it is good vs everyone. Fiora’s character is designed to be able to duel almost everyone, that almost is fringe cases like Yi who is just a 100% stat check. > Her Q Her W Her E Her R are all Single Target Because they wanted to hitbhome her theme of being a high damage duelist, who excelled in duels but didn’t also take over team fights. Think about it, where do most duels happen? In the split push. Do tanks like to split? Or do champions like Jax, Yorick, Yasuo? Fiora has all the tools to fight those, if she was designed to only counter tanks, she wouldn’t be winning duels vs other split pushers. Think of the times in the last two seasons Fiora has been picked professionally, it was vs Yorick, Aatrox, and Irelia, and the Shy picked her once vs Urgot. If Fiora truly only countered tanks, she would have been picked into Sion. But she wasn’t. Fiora can access her win condition vs split pushers, it’s much harder for her to vs tanks. > She buys hydra So she can actually pressure waves because tanks have huge wave priority over her Tanks are not the only champions that have wave clear, that’s a ridiculous argument. Riven, Gangplank, Darius, urgot, Garen, illaoi, Jayce, Irelia all the fighter top lanes have wave pressure over her. Fiora’s wave clear is non existent, that’s going to happen vs anyone who has any AOE vs an entirely single target character. >Instead of blindly arguing against me based on your awesome assumptions stop for a while and listen to what im trying to tell you I’m not blindly arguing against you. I disagree for a variety of reasons I clearly listed. You think Fiora is only good vs tanks, I think that’s false. I listed why I think that’s false. That’s not a blind argument. > because maybe just maybe i know a lot more about the designs of champions than you do Some sure, maybe. But on this I’m gonna have to disagree. Fiora’s design is not to only be good vs tanks, I can’t reiterate this enough. Does she have a dueling advantage vs tanks? Yes, undoubtedly. But tanks capitalize her weakness too hard. Meanwhile played right, there is almost no splitpusher that has a guaranteed win vs her when even on item. Fiora is a high skill cap champ, her win rate will usually be on the lower side, that’s how it should be. 48-49 should be expected. There’s a reason her highest win rate is at 200+ games. > her current power in the bruiser meta is completely irrelevant because the champion isn't supposed to win lane while bruisers ARE supposed to win lane I have yet to argue Fiora is a bruiser. She’s a carry. Not once did I argue she’s a bruiser. My arguments about what Fiora counters aren’t just for in lane. I’m talking about accessing her win condition, about being able to split push and 1v1 1v2 those that come to her. Fiora has all the tools to beat those bruisers, all she has to do is make it through land phase, which like you said, is her weakest time. > If she wins lane the bruisers unimaginably fucked up If she wins lane, if she gets to her 3 items, if she gets to actually split push. This is what I’ve been saying, and why it’s a misconception that she counters tanks, when splitpushers/juggernauts are what she actually has to split against, where it comes down to her vs them. Tanks won’t eveb bother dueling, they’ll just teamvfight and press their win condition. But those that need to split for their own condition, that’s when Fiora gets hers as well. Because she can beat the other split pushers. The only thing I’ve mentioned about Fiora’s team fight is that it’s weaker than the other split pushers due to her biggest contribution being easily countered. I’m not saying Fiora is a strong team fighter because of her heal, just thatwhen it coms down to the split pusher team fighting, others haven stronger one. Which is why Fiora is perceived weak in the current meta.
: > [{quoted}](name=Small PP Player,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=gP803768,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-04-25T14:39:28.810+0000) > > Incorrect, Fiora is not only goodbinto tanks. Just because she does %max hp doesn’t mean she exists to counter tanks. Fiora is a splitpusher who struggles because one 800-1000 gold item nullifies her team fight, and lesguevis very team fight oriented at the moment. Fiora is good bs other splitpushers, it’s just at this moment in time they way out team fight her, which is why she’s struggling. > > It’s a misconception that Fiora hard counters tanks. In lane a lot can bully her, and then just grab a bramble vest, at which point Fiora can’t really fight them anymore. And by the time she can they just group and our team fight her. > > Fiora is good vs other splitpushers, most are a skill match up, the only difference is they put team fight her. Due to the fact that one grievous wounds cuts her main team fight contribution in half. Please don't slap me with those hashinshin arguments Fioras whole rework design was made to counter the INSANE tank meta during that time This is why You have Move speed, HEALING, and true MAX hp % damage and low cool down mobility and a counter to cc You reducing her healing by 40% is equivalent to reducing her kit power by 5% or less not significant at all and when she starts buying life steal it instantly becomes irrelevant Why would you say that fiora doesn't want to team fight and then bring the argument that she has to match team fights with tanks? ??? ??? ??? how can you contradict your own arguments so hard it's beyond me nobody team fights as good as tanks Tanks whole power point is TEAM FIGHT SET UP Think bro Think stop watching hashinshin
> [{quoted}](name=Ornndyr2k19,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=gP803768,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-04-25T15:59:00.141+0000) > > Please don't slap me with those hashinshin arguments > Fioras whole rework design was made to counter the INSANE tank meta during that time > This is why You have Move speed, HEALING, and true MAX hp % damage and low cool down mobility and a counter to cc > > You reducing her healing by 40% is equivalent to reducing her kit power by 5% or less > not significant at all and when she starts buying life steal it instantly becomes irrelevant > > Why would you say that fiora doesn't want to team fight and then bring the argument that she has to match team fights with tanks? ??? ??? ??? how can you contradict your own arguments so hard it's beyond me > > nobody team fights as good as tanks > Tanks whole power point is TEAM FIGHT SET UP > > Think bro > Think > stop watching hashinshin . > Please don't slap me with those hashinshin arguments > Fioras whole rework design was made to counter the INSANE tank meta during that time I’m not coming at you with hashinshin arguments, I’m coming at you with a shit Tom of experience on the champion. Fiora’s whole rework was not to countervthe tank meta, it was to actually fill her theme instead of being master Yi 2.0 while also adding counterplay to her kit. Fiora’strue damage is so she fights everyone at a mostly even level. Anything other than %max hp true damage would be too effective vs one type of enemy and worthless for another. If it was physical damage it’s value would be higher, essentially making her an assassin vs people who don’t build armor and low damage vs tanks. Magic damage would fall off too hard, as she couldn’t build pen. Flat values would be too good vs squishies and you’re right back to the assassin dilemma. %max ho true damage is there not to counter tanks, but to make her time to kill about even no matter who she’s fighting. > This is why You have Move speed, HEALING, and true MAX hp % damage and low cool down mobility and a counter to cc None of that is exclusively good vs tanks tho. Without any of that she couldn’t fight anyone. How is healing a tank counter but it’s not an assassin counter, or a bruiser counter. It’s not like she steals health based upon the enemies health like trundle. Fighting Sion or Fighting Jhin Fiora’s heal is the same, it’s based off of her own scaling. Not only tanks have cc, almost every fighter/juggernaut/bruiser/diver has cc. Mobility has always been a feature if Fiora’s kit, both dashes and ms, it’s for chasing people. If anything ms is unnecessary vs tanks because their already slow, it’s too help her fight other fast targets. > You reducing her healing by 40% is equivalent to reducing her kit power by 5% or less Her personal power, maybe. But it reduces her biggest team fight contribution. Fiora doesn’t contribute to team fights by wombo combos or huge AOE damage, she provides her heal helping her team draw out the team fight, that’s how she contributes to the team. The high accessibility of grievous wounds impacts her team fight a lot. > not significant at all and when she starts buying life steal it instantly becomes irrelevant My talk of healing was related to my previous point, so read that again. > Why would you say that fiora doesn't want to team fight and then bring the argument that she has to match team fights with tanks? ??? ??? ??? how can you contradict your own arguments so hard it's beyond me I never said she has to match tanks in team fights. I said they put team fight her. Then I said other bruisers out team fight Fiora atm which is why she’s struggling compared. For example, Jax is a good duelist and a splitpusher, Fiora is a duelist and a split pusher. But Jax has a stronger, safer and easier team fight than Fiora, which is how she struggles vs other bruisers. I never said she has to match tanks team fights, just that they survive lane and put team fight her, which is why it’s a misconception that she’s a “tank counter”. > nobody team fights as good as tanks > Tanks whole power point is TEAM FIGHT SET UP I know nobody team fights as good as tanks. That’s my whole point as to why it is incorrect to say Fiora exists to counter tanks. She literally does nothing vs tanks. She can’t kill them in lane, then they group and our team fight her, then win through team fights. Just because Fiora COULD kill a tank in a 1v1 doesn’t mean she counters them. No tank past 25 minutes will be dueling her, they don’t need to. Fiora does not counter tanks. Fiora’s best match ups are those that would split against her, that will actually try to duel her. > Think bro > think I did, you misunderstood. > stop watching hashinshin I already don’t, and literally nothing I said sounds like him. He hates Fiora, I do not. His point is Fiora is a worthless champ that’s op but has no win condition. My point is Fiora does not actually counter tanks, instead she counters other split pushers.
: Fiora is only ever good into tanks as she outsustains them hard AND with enough ad can vaporize them bruisers are supposed to be good into her until a point at which she outscales them hard Fiora wins lanes only against low damage champions (due to sustain and true damage) or high burst champions at which point her W becomes OP against them So as you pointed out Fiora is out of meta but that doesn't mean she is weak The moment tanks become relevant and start beating bruisers as they should fiora will get a few %s on her win rate Prime example of this out of meta but not weak is trundle as he directly scales with hyper tanks on the enemy team If you can ult a Sej that procs aftershock and still has her passive after both expire sejuanis defenses go into the negative while trundle becomes immune to regular damage
> [{quoted}](name=Ornndyr2k19,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=gP803768,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-25T14:27:45.271+0000) > > Fiora is only ever good into tanks > as she outsustains them hard AND with enough ad can vaporize them > > bruisers are supposed to be good into her until a point at which she outscales them hard > > Fiora wins lanes only against low damage champions (due to sustain and true damage) or high burst champions at which point her W becomes OP against them > > So as you pointed out Fiora is out of meta but that doesn't mean she is weak > The moment tanks become relevant and start beating bruisers as they should fiora will get a few %s on her win rate > > Prime example of this out of meta but not weak is trundle as he directly scales with hyper tanks on the enemy team > If you can ult a Sej that procs aftershock and still has her passive after both expire sejuanis defenses go into the negative while trundle becomes immune to regular damage Incorrect, Fiora is not only goodbinto tanks. Just because she does %max hp doesn’t mean she exists to counter tanks. Fiora is a splitpusher who struggles because one 800-1000 gold item nullifies her team fight, and lesguevis very team fight oriented at the moment. Fiora is good bs other splitpushers, it’s just at this moment in time they way out team fight her, which is why she’s struggling. It’s a misconception that Fiora hard counters tanks. In lane a lot can bully her, and then just grab a bramble vest, at which point Fiora can’t really fight them anymore. And by the time she can they just group and our team fight her. Fiora is good vs other splitpushers, most are a skill match up, the only difference is they put team fight her. Due to the fact that one grievous wounds cuts her main team fight contribution in half.
Antenora (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Bandit Queen,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F0flEaku,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-04-24T18:36:55.132+0000) > > Are you trying to imply that the power shift to Taste of Blood, which is pretty much the only thing being changed to have a lower CD but lower value per proc, a rune which Vayne does not primarily take and has a lower-than-average winrate with, is going to be the big Vayne nerf that will bring her into line - in which case I would like to question how it breaks Vayne specifically but not any other ADC. I don't disagree that she is a bit overwhelming right now but how is 51.17% win rate "broken"? As someone who plays Vayne and is approaching 1.3 million mastery points I believe the following change would bring her in to line > Final Hour (R) > > Tumble Cooldown reduction reduced to 10 / 30 / 50% based on spell rank from 50% all ranks. What people need to remember is **TUMBLE IS MAXED 2ND** it doesn't get maxed until level 13.
A 51.17% w/r on a "high skill cap late game champion" who spikes at 2 items ~20 minutes.
: Riot games is the source of all toxicity
Smurfs in low elo, complains when the players aren't good LUL
gubigubi (NA)
: Is there anyway to check what the most popular skins are for champions?
Based off of r/Fioramains popular opinion and a few polls Project is her most popular, then soaring sword.
: Can't wait to pick her up and main her! Been needing a super OP meta champ to abuse.
How is Fiora in anyway super OP and meta? She’s been one of the worst champs this season. Her playrate has dropped by almost half, with declining win and ban rates. She’s picked almost solely as a counter pick. How is that, in any way a meta champ?
Neriticc (EUW)
: Late game champion btw
>Fiora can start bullying champions from level 1 with her low mana cost spammable mobility spell. She can bully early game champs and late game champs from level 1. Yeah try bullying a Renekton or a pantheon, see how that goes. Fiora Qs in, is now stuck in melee with them and gets out traded. Or a riven, if Fiora Qs level 1, there is nothing to stop riven from using all 3 Qs and completely winning the trade. Exactly which early game champs does Fiora bully? >Fiora’s W was meant to be used as a skill tool to deflect a hard CC tool and counter it No it’s not. It’s a survival tool used to block important abilities, CC or not. Not using it to survive burst because there wasn’t CC on it is a complete misuse. >but we buff it anyway so now the Fiora player can just use W at anytime and still benefit. 2 second slow and cripple. If you think Fiora can parry at any time, you have clearly never played the champion. Fiora’s W is on a 24 second cd ability and is the last maxed ability. So if Fiora uses it randomly she is completely susceptible to getting turned on. She has no way to avoid damage if she uses it solely for the slow.
: > [{quoted}](name=Small PP Player,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=MvFrwIiQ,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-04-15T22:27:48.595+0000) > > -3 Ad > +1 second CD on Final Hour You know it'll be -1 AD and that's it.
> [{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=MvFrwIiQ,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2019-04-16T10:01:15.148+0000) > > You know it'll be -1 AD and that's it. I dreamed too high. Like Icarus, my wings are melting,
Kalikain (NA)
: I'm excited for the Vayne Nerfs
-3 Ad +1 second CD on Final Hour
Rock MD (NA)
: I like how junglers act like their laners are incredibly stupid and incapable meanwhile last 4 games in a row I've played were almost solely decided by a stupid decision made by one of the junglers, followed by them being the first to call for open mid.
Junglers see themselves as a baby sitter having to watch idiotic children. I have yet to meet a jungle main who doesn't think every single lane is the problem.
: What champion do you think represent the game the most
Probably Katarina, she was League's original poster girl and is flashy.
: I'm sure he seems op when your silver
Those are the stats from U.gg, where it’s all from plat + games. Xd tho, what a solid defense of the champ.
: > [{quoted}](name=Small PP Player,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=1LWYLcNL,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-12T06:37:32.199+0000) > > Fiora got a .5 cc increase and reduced mana costs, how is that too much, that’s a little help, not shaping the meta around her. She got mana costs reduction, attack speed increase on her E and a 0.5 second stun increase (which can be game changing in situations). I don't mind the buffs. I am not saying she should not get buffed. But they should do it slowly one thing at a time. Give it 2 patches and then adjust if not happy. What is happening now is that they buffed her in the previous patch, they are buffing her again now. (They did not give the players time to play her to gather enough data).
> [{quoted}](name=SirTauntsALot,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=1LWYLcNL,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-04-12T08:48:52.738+0000) > > She got mana costs reduction, attack speed increase on her E and a 0.5 second stun increase (which can be game changing in situations). I don't mind the buffs. I am not saying she should not get buffed. But they should do it slowly one thing at a time. Give it 2 patches and then adjust if not happy. > > What is happening now is that they buffed her in the previous patch, they are buffing her again now. (They did not give the players time to play her to gather enough data). They are doing it slowly, which is why they took off the E attack speed buff.
Neriticc (EUW)
: How many times are you going to buff Fiora until enough is enough?
It’s hilarious people think Fiora’s W should only be used against cc. There are other important ways to use it and other important things to block. Rengars combo from stealth that one shots, it shouldn’t be used to block that? Or what about Veigar Ult, shouldn’t be used to block that either? The cripple is the base cc, the stun is the conditional one. And Fiora can’t use it whenever she wants, it runs a 24 second cool down, it’s a one time per fight use and is her main survival ability.
JuiceBoxP (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Small PP Player,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=1LWYLcNL,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-12T06:37:32.199+0000) > > Fiora got a .5 cc increase and reduced mana costs, how is that too much, that’s a little help, not shaping the meta around her. 0.5 is actually alot mate. It could mean life or death pretty easily. I don't understand why they buff them, they are fricking strong.
> [{quoted}](name=JuiceBoxP,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=1LWYLcNL,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-04-12T07:06:15.628+0000) > > 0.5 is actually alot mate. It could mean life or death pretty easily. > > I don't understand why they buff them, they are fricking strong. Fiora has been one of the lowest performing champs this season, with an abysmal win rate and a play rate that has dropped by over half since the beginning of the season. Not to mention she’s a late game champ in a mid game team fight meta. She needed help, and I highly doubt what she got will even make that big of an impact.
: Why are we buffing renekton and fiora so hard?
Fiora got a .5 cc increase and reduced mana costs, how is that too much, that’s a little help, not shaping the meta around her.
: > [{quoted}](name=DontLewdOrianna,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4khi24s5,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-04-11T13:24:34.979+0000) > > sure, he might be bad in pro play, bur he is god tier is higher elos too. n----no
https://u.gg/lol/champions/masteryi/build Here is his U.gg How is he useless in high elo?
: What yi is complete shit, how is getting creep blocked counterplay it's bullshit rng
How is being an S+ tier champion complete shit? His items are broken, and its not like hes difficult to pull off.
: Fiora putting her hand behind her back while fencing is a major inaccuracy to fencing.
Well Fioras type of fencing is for survival, she doesn’t practice modern sport fencing. When she fights, someone dies. Her fighting is not modern sport fencing.
Cåracal (NA)
: Fiora is a pretty arrogant character...
Actually she’s not. They changed that, she used to be, before the rework. Now In her new lore they make sure that it’s obvious she’s only perceived as arrogant, but rather is confident. In her new lore she doesn’t boast, and she doesn’t taunt. She is simply confident and knows her abilities. "His anger at what he assumed was her arrogance overcame his fear and he stamped forward" Thats from her color story, je assumed, but it doesn't mean she is. And you can’t site her VO, that thing is outdated as hell.
: Tank killer not broken in meta without over bearing tanks Gets buffed Tank killer broken in meta without tanks in lane primarily vs squishies, mages, and AD carry junglers No nerfs at all?????? Good job Riot!
> [{quoted}](name=MankeyMadness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=QFA1AkUB,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-10T20:24:36.509+0000) > > Tank killer not broken in meta without over bearing tanks > Gets buffed > > Tank killer broken in meta without tanks in lane primarily vs squishies, mages, and AD carry junglers > No nerfs at all?????? > > Good job Riot! Its a misconception that Fiora is only good vs tanks. Fiora does well vs other split pushers. The problem is, her items are too expensive for this early/mid game meta. And she doesn't have a good keystone for her. Tanks outscale Fiora by being team fight monsters and the other splitpushers team fight way better than her.
: > [{quoted}](name=Small PP Player,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=88ByU9gA,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-04-10T04:57:14.798+0000) > > Because malphites slow is AOE and on almost a 4th cd of Fiora W which is a narrow line and has wind up. And Nasus is point and click and is an active cripple for 5 seconds. The cripple helps her in duels/splitpush. > > And besides her W, where do you want them to add power? Increase her Q damage? Her passive damage? It’s a smart way to add power into her kit without making her damage insane. They shouldn’t add power period. As long as she has percent max hp true damage she should remain in the gutter and unplayable. There is no way to play around percent max hp true damage and that is an issue.
Fiora's in the dumpster this season, she needs help. Not like Jax whos been sitting at S+ tier all season, somehow avoiding any nerfs.
DeusVult (NA)
: why is the CC portion of Fiora's Kit getting buffed???
Because malphites slow is AOE and on almost a 4th cd of Fiora W which is a narrow line and has wind up. And Nasus is point and click and is an active cripple for 5 seconds. The cripple helps her in duels/splitpush. And besides her W, where do you want them to add power? Increase her Q damage? Her passive damage? It’s a smart way to add power into her kit without making her damage insane.
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