nm1010 (NA)
: Riot: >Overall damage has stayed the same Yeah but you used to have to land a combo to chunk someone, nowadays you just whiff 2/3 abilities and auto 2 times for a free chunk of burst damage. Ask anyone that played a lot of Orianna pre keystones, that champion lost a ton of her skill cap because you can just abuse her passive + tlords/aery/electrocute for free damage.
"overall damage has stayed the same" is an absolute lie. They added straight damage runes, nerfed armor, MR and health until you're about level 14 and then cranked up the ratios for every burst champ. Jhin can hit almost 1000 AD but "overall damage has stayed the same". My ass it has
Atlªs (NA)
: the reason why mobile champions are more "fun" is because there are fewer consequences for errors
: Do you think Zoe needs a rework? As sad as that sounds.
A champ that suddenly blinks, disables you with an absurdly long cc and then 1-shots you isn't balanced? HOW EVER IS SHE NOT BALANCED?!
: Ah shit. I totally mental boomed on Teridax68's question. I was on my phone and misread the question as "are we considering ttk as well as overall damage" - and my reply was both, because those are both things we're looking into, but his question was "has ttk also remained relatively unchanged". I messed up the answer to that question. :/ TKK is decreased (faster to kill champs) depending on champ, runes, and items. We'll be talking about that in a bit more detail on Friday (as well as what our plans are). Super brief though is we're going to see if we can siphon some damage from systems on either 8.16/8.17 (8.16 is a bit dubious because of playoffs, but could be doable scope depending), with some larger solves to come later in the year in preseason.
Gee, it couldn't possibly have anything to do with the slow trickle of: 1. Base stat nerfs and shifts to growth curves 2. Addition of Thunderlord's/Electrocute 3. Removing defensive runes 4. Addition of passive direct-damage burst items like {{item:3285}} and {{item:3147}} **_why do players think damage is so high_**
Rioter Comments
: A Rioter finally aknowledged that damage creep "Might" exist! (on reddit OFC).
: Anybody else misses those Diamond Ranked Games on the bottom right of the client?
Yeah. XXoXoXX was the top-ranked {{champion:112}} main but he doesn't stream, so that's how I watched all his games and got gud
Velasan (NA)
: I honestly think part of the problem with her design and Riot on AP mid laners in general is their answer to anything is turn them into a burst mage. Don't know what to do with the champ? Make them a burst mage. They do extended magic damage? Can't have that, make them a burst mage. Zoe would be fine if she didn't have really high damage. By that I mean if her design was low damage, but you would help your team by fishing for hits of your sleep and then you NEEDED those spell drops to help boost your mediocre damage then she would be way more balanced. I still don't know if she would be good for the game, but high CC, safety, and high damage should not all be on the same champion.
They refuse to acknowledge that sustain is core to DPS champions, so mages are inferior by definition as DPS champs before you even account for relying on a mana bar or their quarter-second delay on every spell. Literally nothing about mages works as DPS but riot just can't seem to figure it out.
Yenn (NA)
: This season has completely neutered skill expression, can we get a new balance team?
That's what you get when you take the guy who invented S2 Darius and put him in charge
AR URF (NA)
: I used to think immobile champs were easy to play.
No, lmao. They are not easy. Unlike the rest of the cast, immobile champs actually get punished for bad positioning. If you get caught out and waste a {{summoner:4}} you're basically screwed for the next 5 minutes. When you've got blinks and dashes, even your BIGGEST screw-ups only get punished with 1 death at most. When you're an immobile champ like a mage and you waste flash, that can kill you 2 or 3 times.
: The extremely high amounts of AD are the results of different %amps acting recursively with each other. It's not an issue unique to Jhin, and there are other instances of recursive stat increases in the game, but it is certainly most pronounced on him. A change is already locked into the 8.9 to address this with Rageblade.
So why did nobody notice this before it launched? It was immediately obvious to so many players upon release
: Knockups are way too common and powerful compared to other forms of cc.
Don't forget that it also stacks. Knockups are stuns for people who want to win
MegaHuff (NA)
: I don't like lumping people in with each other, but I agree that at least some people in charge aren't really thinking things through enough. I really resonate with the stuff you said about the reworks. It almost feels like when they rework something it just ends up being destroyed, overpowered, or just enhances the problems that existed before. I have always hated {{champion:55}} because of how she has so many instant blinks and all that. You can say her rework gives her more telegraphed combos, but for me, the worst part was the constant shunpos that you practically can't even predict. Ever since her rework, she doesn't even need a kill or assist to get resets. Just throw daggers and blink like two screen distances toward your kill target. You said what I think about {{champion:13}} . Just leave him alone with one kit or take him out to the pasture. I also remember when {{champion:107}} first came out, and just like {{champion:13}} they've been flipping back and forth between mechanics on him, and yet he still feels relatively the same. They reverted the Q change and gave him his old one, and all that. IIRC I remember {{champion:38}} was just a freight train in mid for the longest time and nothing was done to him for years. {{champion:82}} , even if a little underwhelming because of lack of cc, still had a pretty good role before as a bruiser-y ap juggernaut character like {{champion:3}} . Then they tried making him a bot laner carry that just bonks people, and that flopped, so now you only see him played by really experienced players that know how to work with his awkward kit, and as far as I know, he's not even a common pick. Not to discredit the good things they've done, but some things they do just don't make sense. I can't tell if it's because of LCS, lack of communication to the playerbase (which I don't understand seeing how we have a forum) or if they just take a really long time to figure shit out. Sometimes it's just pretty ridiculous. Admittedly, part of what I found fun(ny) about the game before two was the spammable glitchy emotes that would exist. I don't know when exactly they got removed, but I miss the old days of: {{champion:86}} "URGH-URGH-URGH-URGH-URGH-URGH" {{champion:74}} "DON'T WORRY, DON'T-DON'T-DON'T-DON'T-" {{champion:127}} "CL-CL-CL-CL-CL-CL-CL-CL-CLOSE YOUR EYES..."
Ah yes, the 3 years of when "I'm a Kassadin main" actually meant "I only get to play in 10 games a year, out of 600 because in all the rest he's banned"
: No game in history has ever recovered from the downward spiral of staleness. LoL is in a spot where its just a matter of time before the next ground breaking game steals all of its players. Were ALL waiting to get out of here.
Nah, League isn't stale. The balance team is just obviously and grossly incompetent in a way that's only been getting worse every year. We're on what? {{champion:13}} rework #6? It took them 4 years to finally make the one {{champion:268}} nerf that was OBVIOUSLY his problem in letting a hyperscaling champ dominate early, but instead they spent years nerfing everything else about the champ and ruined him for most of that time. Remember {{champion:82}} ? "Yeah, let's make him a bot lane melee carry! Oh, that was a horrific failure? We should either fix or revert him.... ...but nah. Let's just leave him as utter trash for the next several years." Remember how 5 straight seasons of high-elo junglers were all the same two champs? Remember how they just finally waved the white flag and reverted three assassin reworks {{champion:103}} {{champion:7}} {{champion:107}} because they did the exact opposite of what they meant to do? Riot keeps claiming they understand the problem with {{champion:106}} but never do anything about it And let's not forget _**this**_ masterpiece {{champion:23}} Or this one {{champion:56}} "Gee, I dunno, let's make the whole enemy team blind for twice as long? I'm kind of outta ideas" Then {{champion:80}} was good for one season, not _great_, just kinda good. Then riot nerfed him...and then buffed all the other junglers. And never did anything else with him. {{champion:127}} just a big steaming pile of shit since about a year after her release {{champion:202}} this guy isn't so bad for being just a second try at Caitlyn. But how did they **_ever_** manage to screw {{item:3124}} up? It's just lazy analysis and total negligence, because absolutely nobody who's looking could ever miss that little gem of a problem Remember how many times they missed the design mark on {{champion:79}}? I remember them distinctly saying in his rework that they wanted to reward players for landing his ult-into-charged-Q combo that was so rewarding as the old AP Gragas. So what did they do? They removed all his damage and did absolutely none of that. You could ask a room full of first-graders for ideas on how to meet that goal and "take all his damage away" would never show up on that list, but somehow it got all the way at Riot. Here's another one: why is it that {{summoner:1}} doesn't work on suppression but {{item:3140}} does with less than half the cooldown? You can't even compare the value either: you get 6 item slots, but only 2 summoners, one of which _**must be {{summoner:4}}**_ for over 90% of champions.
: kaisa is junk
Her kit was so poorly designed that Riot has very little room to do anything with her. If she can actually win fights, she'll be instantly oppressive and game-deciding. If she stays where she's at, she's just weak. There's really not much in-between. Kinda like {{champion:142}} but worse
infinyx (NA)
: Gragas mains now feel how viktor mains felt for the longest time.
Viktor mains still feel like that. We have to pay 3000 gold go access parts of our kit that any other champ would get for free. His rework never addressed a single one of his core issues. He only saw play in the LCS because he's an afk waveclear bot. Watch LCS games from the last few seasons: Viktor was "designed" to be a mid-range high damage mage. Pros almost never get in Q range of anything because they know it's suicide.
: **PWCS: "Why make all that work for yourself? Wouldn't it be more profitable to produce a healthy kit at its core that can be easily tuned to fit new season conditions for years to come, leaving more time to fix bugs, make new champions, save precious budget to add new content and improve the overall user experience? Maybe finally get to those auto-attack changes we planned years ago for when you shoot at someone who flashes or walks into brus-"** Almost everything in this list is handled by different departments. Thus her release effects none of it.
Look at this guy who has never heard of budgets
Rioter Comments
: Honestly, ADC's, not all mid laners can roam.
What do you MEAN you won't follow Ahri down the river when the enemy Rengar is 5/1 and can kill you in 0.4 seconds from invisiblility? So bad
Rioter Comments
: Can someone please explain to me why some items destroy meaningful weaknesses?
DMP loses almost all its speed right after you hit them once.
: When complaining about a champion for being too op.
His burst is countered by one of those 4 champs? Oh really? I can't imagine any of them beating him in a 1v1... ...oh wait. You're trying to argue that K6 isn't OP because you might be able to stop him if he's outnumbered. lmao
: Viktor buff ideas
Viktor's problem is that his rework failed to address any of his core problems and basically just consisted of dialing his numbers up with a little extra playability added. He's still a squishy mage who's mostly ineffective outside close range because every single spell requires multiple hits and he can't defend himself. Most champs can kill you in less time than it takes your W stun to proc. And his augment item is his biggest problem. Viktor is the only champ in the game who has to pay gold for spell abilities everyone else gets for free. Mages rely on every single item's unique ability and a few extra points of AP don't compensate for what he's forced to give up.
: Viktor is actually very strong right now it's just ppl can't accept the new build
Nice joke, but everyone knows you can't build 6 items on viktor because he only has 5 open slots
Rioter Comments
Mewthree (NA)
: ZOE
Did you miss the part where you get 90% at level 2?
: You know why Riot hasnt nerf Zoe yet?
Because she's a 1-spell wonder as a result of utterly horrible champion design, now there's nothing Riot can do because the moment her Q either becomes weaker or not dependable to land Zoe will be trash
Chiken138 (EUW)
: In what World is Volibear on a fine state
His use is to be a sustain battery so champs like {{champion:51}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:222}} {{champion:429}} {{champion:236}} and {{champion:67}} have something to heal off of when they get bursted low in teamfights. That's why he's got to put 5 ranks into his E just to get about the same movement speed bonus every similar champ gets with 1 rank and why his slow is so pathetically small.
: Champ like Kassadin
I recommend {{champion:238}} only because I ban him in 100% of games anyway. Zed's laning phase is nothing less than unfair because his passive dumbs farming down to 10 cs/min just for trying, he has 1600-unit range poke. The only champ who can beat that is {{champion:110}} , who has a longer cooldown and _**only**_ beats his range by a lousy 50 units; most "long range" mages like {{champion:103}} {{champion:30}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:101}} and {{champion:115}} actually top out at 1450 range for basic spells. He can all-in for kills at level 2. He has 2 extra blinks besides his flash (3 technically). He doesn't have to manage mana. Because he's AD he gets access to sustain and tons of HP/armor/MR without any drawbacks. Again, because he's AD, he gets _**way**_ more options for cooldown reduction. He scales better into the late game than almost any assassin besides Kassadin. And virtually all his damage is unavoidable unless **_you_** make a mistake, which is pretty difficult because Zed's spells are way easier to land than most other champions. The only things that take skill are landing multiple Qs, which isn't even necessary anymore because of Electrocute and Lethality changes.
: Maybe you should learn all roles before jumping into ranked.
*cough* who said anything about not knowing all the roles or playing in ranked *cough* Maybe you should read all the post before jumping into comments
: It would be nice if your role was locked before a dodge. I personally don't mind getting filled, but if I wasn't filled initially, then it sucks because I lost one of the roles I _really_ wanted to play and was told I was going to play but then NAH
Right? I get forced into a role I don't want so _**someone else**_ can have the benefit of a short queue AND they still the pick *I* waited in queue for
Rioter Comments
: ...Oh god your summoner name. And that icon. Oh nooooooo.
Did you know it took FIVE GAMES of jungle lulu with the cupcake skin and me using Whimsy on enemies, smiting them and walking away before someone finally got the joke?
: > [{quoted}](name=Smitemuffin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eYEcqXxr,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-11-13T22:59:09.543+0000) > > Because their champion designs are usually centered around high attack damage, high attack speed and crits as damage multipliers for late game. Their intent is generally a high, steady damage output later in the game But how are crits a reliable sustained source of damage? Assuming this is like every RPG with critical hits, the crits are determined by RNG, and as a result wouldn't be reliable since you might not even get them.
Crit items give you % critical hit chance in increments of 20% or 30%. And because you're throwing a ton of basic attacks per fight as an ADC, you're going to get a pretty representative proportion of your crit chance overall. A 100% crit chance isn't all that ridiculous of an idea either - I often use builds like {{item:3508}} {{item:3031}} {{item:3046}} {{item:3094}} which give 100%. {{champion:157}} also gains double that, so he gets 100% from Infinity Edge and Statikk Shiv
: Why Do ADC Build Crit Chance And Crit Damage?
Because their champion designs are usually centered around high attack damage, high attack speed and crits as damage multipliers for late game. Their intent is generally a high, steady damage output later in the game
Rioter Comments
: Well, except, you DID say it. It's in your OP, right there: > Poor balancing made flat damage and defense stats virtually mandatory
Okay, first I say it's "virtually mandatory" and you try to "correct" it by saying it's mandatory. Then when I say I can't say it's "mandatory" because it's not, you try to claim exactly the opposite. You can't argue two opposites brah
: Well then, just don't say it was "virtually mandatory". But people will disagree. You know, because it *was* mandatory.
I can't really say it's mandatory if half my post is about me not doing it, now can I? :P
: 3 hit heal?
Yeah. I can't remember what it's called. Heals you for a flat amount plus some AD/AP scaling every 3rd hit, even just on minions
: {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}}
: Yep, but that's contradictory. You can't say on one hand "it's virtually mandatory" and on the other "but we had choice". If really you have a choice and can viably take something else, it's not mandatory.
Read the rest of the sentence. And FYI, defensive stats aren't that important if you don't make a habit out of getting hit
: Old runes gave you more options? AHAHAHAHAHAA Please, tell me how you got more options when there was exactly _one_ good rune page for each champion? If you didn't have that _one_ rune page, you were at an automatic deficit. Period. No questions asked.
That's actually really wrong. For APs, going mag pen on reds, blues and quints is great for teams without tanks because it lets you blow up carries without ever needing to buy void staff. Otherwise, it's better to take flat AP for easier farming. For Varus, you had these choices: AD reds and lifesteal quints to scrap in lane OR you could have 24 lethality from reds and quints if you planned to stay at range and Q. Same held true for ezreal. Draven could use either page but just wanted to fight a lot either way. Tanks had several choices as well. My personal favorite was armor reds, scaling MR blues then % health seals and quints. This was because the tanks I often play either win or lose mechanically by making good or bad combos, not by stat margins; so it gave a little toughness in lane but had significant payoffs in mid and late game. The difference meant negating a pair of sorc shoes and often about 400 health. Have you ever tried crit damage or crit chance runes on Ashe? They **significantly** change how you can player her. Yasuo too. Yasuo can skip an entire item if he wants by taking armor seals and 18% crit chance. If you're a vayne or twitch player, the merits of attack speed runes are incredibly obvious. But now there's no trade-off for huge bonus attack speed and it's going to throw the whole game out of whack because tanks will have to be adjusted to endure Marksman who all have 50-80% more attack speed
: "Old runes were better" You mean like how 99% of everyone's Runes will always consist of 9 Armor Seals & 9 MR scaling Glyphs? "Diversity" my ass.
*cough* actually read if you're going to comment *cough* because I called that out too "Poor balancing made flat damage and defense stats virtually mandatory," *cough, lung flops on the table - you scream, I scream, the toaster screams - I shoot the toaster*
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: CotC on Full AP Diana?
Colossus isn't really good unless you're building HP. If you're diving in on 4 or 5 people as a full AP diana, you're probably making a terrible mistake
iiPlayii (NA)
: Some champ designs just make no sense.
Many designs make no sense, but {{champion:240}} isn't one of them {{champion:112}} has no passive because his passive is also an item. And it's an item that he has to waste 3000g on just to get stats way too late to be any good and to get the parts of his spells that are actually effective. Any other champion would have a REAL passive and get those extra abilities for free {{champion:91}} kit is more thematic for {{champion:39}} backstory and character identity because she levitates her blades with telekinesis...and just hits you with them in melee. {{champion:105}} why the fuck is he a fish and why is he so agile if they live under water? Agility should be the LAST thing a fish has on land but _**here he is**_
: Make a post, no one on the boards takes Champion.gg seriously anymore. And somehow, you don't try to disprove my actual argument either, soooooo...
I don't have to because I already did. The data is there and you're just pretending it doesn't exist. You have no real refutation of any substance. The best you've got is a nebulous "well 'everyone' (but actually nobody but you) secretly thinks I'm right". Your argument is literally the strawman example used in entry-level philosophy classes to explain how _**not**_ to make an argument. I present facts backed up by hard data using known, legitimate and transparent statistical methods. You claim they legitimate proof is not valid (strike one), offer _**zero**_ evidence to support it (strike two), then just pretend you're right because you also make the unsubstantiated claim that it's "common knowledge" (strike three). Sorry pal. You're out.
: Bork was actually intended for RANGED champions
I dunno what you're talking about. It's been a major item on all of these guys {{champion:266}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:28}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:10}} {{champion:56}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:98}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:238}}
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Smitemuffin

Level 90 (NA)
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