: > [{quoted}](name=Smitemuffin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eYEcqXxr,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-11-13T22:59:09.543+0000) > > Because their champion designs are usually centered around high attack damage, high attack speed and crits as damage multipliers for late game. Their intent is generally a high, steady damage output later in the game But how are crits a reliable sustained source of damage? Assuming this is like every RPG with critical hits, the crits are determined by RNG, and as a result wouldn't be reliable since you might not even get them.
Crit items give you % critical hit chance in increments of 20% or 30%. And because you're throwing a ton of basic attacks per fight as an ADC, you're going to get a pretty representative proportion of your crit chance overall. A 100% crit chance isn't all that ridiculous of an idea either - I often use builds like {{item:3508}} {{item:3031}} {{item:3046}} {{item:3094}} which give 100%. {{champion:157}} also gains double that, so he gets 100% from Infinity Edge and Statikk Shiv
: Why Do ADC Build Crit Chance And Crit Damage?
Because their champion designs are usually centered around high attack damage, high attack speed and crits as damage multipliers for late game. Their intent is generally a high, steady damage output later in the game
Rioter Comments
: Well, except, you DID say it. It's in your OP, right there: > Poor balancing made flat damage and defense stats virtually mandatory
Okay, first I say it's "virtually mandatory" and you try to "correct" it by saying it's mandatory. Then when I say I can't say it's "mandatory" because it's not, you try to claim exactly the opposite. You can't argue two opposites brah
: Well then, just don't say it was "virtually mandatory". But people will disagree. You know, because it *was* mandatory.
I can't really say it's mandatory if half my post is about me not doing it, now can I? :P
: 3 hit heal?
Yeah. I can't remember what it's called. Heals you for a flat amount plus some AD/AP scaling every 3rd hit, even just on minions
: {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}}
: Yep, but that's contradictory. You can't say on one hand "it's virtually mandatory" and on the other "but we had choice". If really you have a choice and can viably take something else, it's not mandatory.
Read the rest of the sentence. And FYI, defensive stats aren't that important if you don't make a habit out of getting hit
: Old runes gave you more options? AHAHAHAHAHAA Please, tell me how you got more options when there was exactly _one_ good rune page for each champion? If you didn't have that _one_ rune page, you were at an automatic deficit. Period. No questions asked.
That's actually really wrong. For APs, going mag pen on reds, blues and quints is great for teams without tanks because it lets you blow up carries without ever needing to buy void staff. Otherwise, it's better to take flat AP for easier farming. For Varus, you had these choices: AD reds and lifesteal quints to scrap in lane OR you could have 24 lethality from reds and quints if you planned to stay at range and Q. Same held true for ezreal. Draven could use either page but just wanted to fight a lot either way. Tanks had several choices as well. My personal favorite was armor reds, scaling MR blues then % health seals and quints. This was because the tanks I often play either win or lose mechanically by making good or bad combos, not by stat margins; so it gave a little toughness in lane but had significant payoffs in mid and late game. The difference meant negating a pair of sorc shoes and often about 400 health. Have you ever tried crit damage or crit chance runes on Ashe? They **significantly** change how you can player her. Yasuo too. Yasuo can skip an entire item if he wants by taking armor seals and 18% crit chance. If you're a vayne or twitch player, the merits of attack speed runes are incredibly obvious. But now there's no trade-off for huge bonus attack speed and it's going to throw the whole game out of whack because tanks will have to be adjusted to endure Marksman who all have 50-80% more attack speed
: "Old runes were better" You mean like how 99% of everyone's Runes will always consist of 9 Armor Seals & 9 MR scaling Glyphs? "Diversity" my ass.
*cough* actually read if you're going to comment *cough* because I called that out too "Poor balancing made flat damage and defense stats virtually mandatory," *cough, lung flops on the table - you scream, I scream, the toaster screams - I shoot the toaster*
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: CotC on Full AP Diana?
Colossus isn't really good unless you're building HP. If you're diving in on 4 or 5 people as a full AP diana, you're probably making a terrible mistake
iiPlayii (NA)
: Some champ designs just make no sense.
Many designs make no sense, but {{champion:240}} isn't one of them {{champion:112}} has no passive because his passive is also an item. And it's an item that he has to waste 3000g on just to get stats way too late to be any good and to get the parts of his spells that are actually effective. Any other champion would have a REAL passive and get those extra abilities for free {{champion:91}} kit is more thematic for {{champion:39}} backstory and character identity because she levitates her blades with telekinesis...and just hits you with them in melee. {{champion:105}} why the fuck is he a fish and why is he so agile if they live under water? Agility should be the LAST thing a fish has on land but _**here he is**_
Dr Mercy (NA)
: Make a post, no one on the boards takes Champion.gg seriously anymore. And somehow, you don't try to disprove my actual argument either, soooooo...
I don't have to because I already did. The data is there and you're just pretending it doesn't exist. You have no real refutation of any substance. The best you've got is a nebulous "well 'everyone' (but actually nobody but you) secretly thinks I'm right". Your argument is literally the strawman example used in entry-level philosophy classes to explain how _**not**_ to make an argument. I present facts backed up by hard data using known, legitimate and transparent statistical methods. You claim they legitimate proof is not valid (strike one), offer _**zero**_ evidence to support it (strike two), then just pretend you're right because you also make the unsubstantiated claim that it's "common knowledge" (strike three). Sorry pal. You're out.
: Bork was actually intended for RANGED champions
I dunno what you're talking about. It's been a major item on all of these guys {{champion:266}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:28}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:10}} {{champion:56}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:98}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:238}}
Dr Mercy (NA)
: Champion GG isn't a reliable source, and I've lost all faith in any credibility it once had. I personally prefer [Lolayltics](http://lolalytics.com/champion/Aatrox/) when it comes to sources. That said, it's no surprise that his winrate for those who don't main him is low, even if you are using a faulty source. He's much more different than other divers, and much more difficult (His survivability is based on Sustain, as opposed to CC or sheilds.) That said, a majority of champs have winrates that are low for under 50 games, but that doesn't mean we should balance for those who don't know how to play them yet. Do you want everyone to have a 50% winrate right off the bat? Of course not, so difficult champions are going to have lower winrates 50 games below, just look at A. Sol's.
Lol. "Your provided evidence backed up by legitimate iterative statistical sampling is destroying my argument and is therefore invalid" I love it when people say that
Cloud273 (NA)
: Why is Fizz able to break tethers with his "troll pole" but Vladimir can't?
Dr Mercy (NA)
: Winrate says otherwise.
his winrate is abysmal for anybody playing less than 50 games with him which, considering his 0.86% play rate, is virtually nobody. Learn to read graphs http://champion.gg/champion/Aatrox/Top?league
: Nah, plenty of champions are viable.
If you're like S5 and below maybe. But once you get into the tiers where people actually punish mistakes, build properly and farm >5 cs/min, there are like 20 viable champs
: {{champion:13}} needs to be a champ that relies on something other than his point and click snare. {{champion:7}} is supposed to be the deceiver, but she doesn't really do that when her clone disappears after walking in a manner that no player ever would (making it too obvious) not to mention in higher elo players ping MIA and watch the map. I've even called the bluff. There's no way that LB just killed my mid and is now up here top 4 seconds later. Her damage on her W needed that nerf but the bigger issue was her E hitbox being so random. {{champion:268}} needs his soldier damaged/attack speed toned the fuck down so his other skills can actually get damage on them and give him the ability to make plays. {{champion:64}} honestly just needs his damage on R and Q (It doesn't need an execute on the 2nd cast) toned down, and maybe lower the range on his W by one Teemo
{{champion:13}} snare would be fine on-click if he had to hit something else first to get the snare {{champion:7}} Riot shot themselves in the foot giving her, along with most other assassins, better and far cheaper waveclear than the champions who are supposed to be clearing waves. Once that happened, nothing else in her kit could be balanced. {{champion:268}} I think the best route for this guy is to make him more defensive, give him access to more soldiers and increase his defensive stats as more and more of them are around him. He should be an attrition mage who raises an army and then crushes you under a tide of sand soliders if you don't stop him first. Like Imhotep from the original The Mummy {{champion:64}} Oh boy are you right on this one. Nothing sucks more than playing Vayne and getting 1-shot because Lee built Lethality and kicked a Cho'Gath into you after popping {{item:3193}}
Dr Mercy (NA)
: I'm a mage/tank main, so since I don't want to play Aatrox, that means the rework has failed? Aatrox's theme isn't exactly widespread, and while visually he may not be ugly, his looks are still in peculiar people's taste. Like in DnD, I don't care for a lot of nonhuman races, sticking with Elves and Human's mainly. Point is, there is more to playrate than "He's viable now".
Tbh, considering what _**this**_ {{item:3123}} does, I'm a bit confused how you even consider him to be viable. 800g is all it takes to totally shut him down for the rest of the game
: Take my upvote and if you had something to sell I'd say 'take my wallet'. OP is 100% right. Let me expand on this. For all the love that the balance/design team gets for their reworks or Sion and Poppy (well deserved I might add), there are MANY champions in this game that have glaring issues in terms of raw power, game health or just general viability that need to be addressed. What do the following champions have in common? Azir, Camile, Nidalee, LeBlanc, Rek'sai and Ryze. They are all in the bottom ten in terms of win rates and in the case of Azir, Nid, Rek'sai and Ryze they have been for a long time now. All of these champions (other than Camile) have received reworks of a small or grand scale over the last year or so and they have all objectively failed to address their core issues or have made the champion worse in every way. Ryze has been on the chopping block a few times and each rework has made his win rate tank further (now at 36% as of this writing) and his playstyle absolutely awful to play. But why stop there, let's look at a few other cases that need to be addressed... **AHRI** : Still sitting at a 52% win rate, surprisingly this is the lowest her win rate has been in 24 months, even at that there is not another champion in all of League of Legends that has her consistently high win rate, not one. She is just too safe and too easy to pick up and win with despite not having experience playing her. Mobility rules and she has it. Any immobile midlaner might as well pack it in and head for the fountain when playing against even a modestly "skilled" Ahri. **AZIR** : It is virtually impossible to balance this champion, period. His kit is just too overloaded and oppressive or if any one element is taken down he becomes completely useless. If you give him any power it's just too punishing to his opponents because of his very design, but if you take that power away he can't even do what he was (poorly) designed to do. He just needs a complete overhaul. Unlikely to see that anytime soon. **CAMILE** : She hasn't even been out for a year and Camile is already relegated to the dumpster with the ninth lowest win rate in the game presently. Again, there is no way to properly balance her though, because her kit is just way too overpowering if her numbers are brought up at all. Who thought that giving a champion true damage, a heal, a massive gap closer, innate tankiness and, most of all, an ult that you CANNOT ESCAPE would be a good idea? Whoever thought that shouldn't have a job today, period. **EVELYNN** : Another champion that simply cannot be balanced. Either she is incredibly strong or despicably weak---she's been the latter for a long time. Personally I'm pretty happy about that as I think stealth mechanics are terrible in all PVP games, nevertheless one cannot ignore that she is tragically unfun to play against when ahead but in her current state not at all fun to play, period. Her ult seems to be where her power is these days and it just doesn't leave much room for the rest of her to do much. Most people probably never even use her E and why would you? It does nothing! **FIORA** : I almost long for the days of old Fiora at this point. I liked her rework, the vitals and working off of her theme as a duelist, but she has become completely overbearing in top lane against almost all opponents. The real problem here is that Fiora has no weak or vulnerable period during a game. She can flat out destroy just about anyone at any time even at level 1. "But she's a duelist", sure... so is Jax, but Jax cannot outtrade most people at level 1 or 2. Fiora can. **FIZZ** : Currently the second most banned champion (behind Yasuo) with a 65% ban rate. Don't wanna play him as he was intended? Cool, just build tank. Now, Riot has attempted to mitigate this with various balance changes, but as long as Fizz has his troll poll on a 5.5 second cooldown with max CDR, he's viable with ANY build... ANY. BUILD. That shouldn't happen. Make his troll poll a 20 second cooldown at all ranks, and maybe we've got something. But Fizz shouldn't have the damage and easy in-and-out that he does without having some consequence. If he had a meaningful 'window of power' then I think the above would be justified. **KALISTA** : I actually like Kalista, but she's borderline unplayable as she is now, all of her power has been stripped---the last straw was taking her AD and reducing it to 90% effectiveness. I get it, it's hard to balance an ADC with virtually limitless mobility, but isn't that the entire point of this thread? They should have NEVER released an adc that can simply bunny hop and chase down or out-kite anyone in the game. Now, of course, since her autos hit like some rejected Chef-Boy-R-D product, it doesn't really matter, but it's frustrating when someone on my team picks her and I see her destroyed by just about every other ADC. **LEE SIN** : League of Legends is a business venture of Riot games first and a video game second, I get that. I know that some champions are always going to remain viable no matter what, because in the era of e$port$ it's all about the bucks---but come on, there is just no reason that Lee Sin should have the (I'll use one of your buzz words) 'agency' that he does without having any real trade offs. Lee is strong early game, mid game and late game for different reasons, but at no point is he ever worthless or even lackluster. Lee has mobility, high damage and the ability to pick off and seperate teammates with a poing and click ultimate. What's his weakness? He really doesn't have one. His ult does a shitload of damage, but even if it did NOTHING the fact that it's on such a short cooldown and is so gamebreaking just doesn't make sense. And why does he still have ward hopping when it was removed from Katarina? I'd argue that Kat should still have it and Lee shouldn't. (Kat with her 44% win rate certainly needs something right about now). **LUCIAN** : This guy... ugh. The Zed of bot lane is just a balancing dilemma. Lucian is the reason that BoRK had to be nerfed, meanwhile it's the only item that makes Kalista even close to playable---and she still isn't. His passive and subsequent burst just makes him a pick-or-ban type of champion every single game. I almost never play Lucian, but I played him in a game a few weeks back going 13/2/11 against an opponent who was higher ranked and, candidly, better than me... but since I chose Lucian and they chose Corki, I win easily. **MALZAHAR** : What was wrong with the original Malz? He was a lane bully, sure, but his late game was very mediocre, I get that you wanted to try something new, but at what point are you just going to admit that the attempt failed and bring him back to what he was before.. just revert the changes like you did with Kog'Maw. There's no shame in admitting mistakes. **MORDEKEISER** : Morde was reworked because his old playstyle felt too binary---he just smashed abilities and blew you up too quickly... or at least this was Riot's reasoning. So let's look at what happened to ol' metal man since. They tried to force him bot lane, that failed. They gave him a pet dragon... that was neat, but at the cost of the rest of his kit it seemed to be a waste. Morde's core issues were never really addressed... So where does Morde stand now? Well, he's back to being pretty binary, he either feeds hard or is unstoppable in a solo lane---it really depends upon matchup, but there is very little "counterplay" in a sense which was something that the rework was supposed to address. I LOVED old Mordekeiser and now I just can't bring myself to play him. His abilities feel so disjointed and his W doesn't even fit his theme at all really especially compared to the old W. **RYZE** : Just bring back the original Ryze already, apologize for the last few years and move on. Sure, original Ryze as pretty one dimensional, but at least he was "balanced" in the sense that his winrate was 48-51%, he was immobile, got destroyed by long range champs, but did pretty well in close combat. Each time Riot has reworked him or made changes he has become worse... his winrate drops, his playstyle becomes more spammy but feels less satisfying. Ryze is just not a fun champion to play, to play against, to have on or against your team. He has the lowest win rate in the game by far in the 36-38% range... as of this morning it was 36%, the lowest I've ever seen any champion attain in League of Legends. **TALIYAH** : Yep, Riot has already forgotten the stoneweaver, left on the scrap heap by and large. What was wrong with her original W? Taliyah is just outclassed by just about every other midlaner that there's very little reason to play her. Personally I love her abilities that she had upon release, but the changes to her wave clear and W have made her a troll pick at best. She's never been above a 48% win rate (currently 47) and likely never will be. While she isn't the most blatant case of poor balancing, she is definitely one that needs to be addressed. **ZYRA** : When can we actually play Zyra again? Simple question. Outside of a very niche situation or two, she is completely unviable in mid and barely passable as a support. You've left her for dead just like many of the other champions I listed.
^ This. This guy gets it. OP's note: as a kid who grew up in a town where Chef Boyardee had a factory and used to taste test some of their new stuff before it got rejected, _**you don't know what you're missing**_. Sure, canned pierogis were a crime against humanity that stuck to the roof of your mouth like peanut butter, but my brother, me and like 3 other kids are the reason you got to eat spaghetti dinosaurs back in the '90s.
Takazaki (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Smitemuffin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=M3NsAJEV,comment-id=00030002,timestamp=2017-06-08T20:51:32.144+0000) > > "to be meta again" really means this tier list: > {{champion:104}} > > {{champion:64}} {{champion:60}} {{champion:427}} > > Lee Sin has literally never been below top 3 junglers since his release. session 5-6 wants to have a word with you
*cough cough Lee Sin was the #2 most-played champ both of those seasons cough* https://www.yahoo.com/news/here-are-the-20-most-popular-league-of-legends-champions-in-2016-170054452.html https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2tpqrq/lee_sin_2nd_most_popular_12_lowest_winrate/
Dr Mercy (NA)
: Why should a rework have to improve playrate? Just because each champion isn't equally played, doesn't mean that some champions are worse off. Aatrox is actually doing pretty fine numbers wise.
If a rework doesn't make people want to actually play that champ, then obviously it was a waste of time and resources
Takazaki (NA)
: exactly how is leesin overturned. the man had to get some pretty decent sized buffs in order to be meta again after jungle itemization gave him a run for his money.
"to be meta again" really means this tier list: {{champion:104}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:60}} {{champion:427}} Lee Sin has literally never been below top 3 junglers since his release.
: Normally I'd respond with "Who do you think you are?" but speaking from personal experience, the rework of Maokai has left him more nerfed than buffed, and if you weren't playing him in the top lane (as I was not) then you're left wanting. I personally think they were going in the right direction and stopped 60% of the way.
Did you notice how he doesn't really have anything that makes him a tank anymore? All he's got is a little bitty heal on a long cooldown for a heal that's so minor for most of the game. Compare it to, say, {{champion:122}} who heals up to triple the amount by level 9 (compared to Maokai's 18) and Darius can do that heal on a high-damage spell he can usually spam every 3 seconds with a typical build for him. It's not even close by comparison.
Poundman (NA)
: I don't work for Riot or anything, but it seems like the testers are probably the biggest issue here. How these obviously broken reworks and such make it into the live version of the game can go back to the testers don't providing accurate or proper feedback. I don't know what qualifications these people have or what their approach to game testing is, but it's not working. They overlooked clearly broken champion and item mechanics again and again. This is normal for any industry btw. You have an engineer type (the game designer) who creates concepts, the technicians/tradesmen (programmers) who create the product, and then you have quality and application specialists (game testers) who examine the product along the way and report problems as they see them so that the final product will not have any flaws.
I think it's more likely that the people making decisions regarding balance and game health don't actually play the game a significant amount. To me, it looks pretty clear because they repeatedly do things that basically every player _**knows**_ is a terrible idea even before the numbers get released to PBE.
: The game has been moving away from stat-checks (which are easy to get the balance at least close) and more towards mechanics (which is as dependent on player skill as it is on the interactions of the relevant mechanics). It's an exciting and smart direction for the game to take long term, but the price is that making decent balance for the game is now far harder. All things considered, riot's actually doing pretty well (it could be SO much worse, complain though we do).
No, the game is even _**more**_ about stat-checks now than it ever has been. The only difference now is that the relevant stats are different. It used to be who has the most health/resistances/AP/AD/damage ratios. _**Now**_ the stats are dash length, shield sizes, range, armor penetration and how much damage you can deal in under 2 seconds. In a game where some champs get only one {{summoner:4}} for mobility every 5 minutes but you make this {{champion:429}} or this {{champion:55}} a champ, what balance options do you have when those two are in damage-dealing carry roles? At least {{champion:38}} has mana, cooldowns and can't E without a certain number of spells being cast. But Kalista is an auto-spam champ and Katarina can easily get 2 blinks in a half second. From that point either they have enough damage to fulfill the role and their mobility makes them horrifically overpowered, or they don't have enough damage and they're just useless. There's no in-between.
Zelorxon (EUW)
: I read your post 3 times, i don't understand what you want, can you please tell me in a simpler way?
"Clean house" means to dismiss people or reassign them elsewhere. For once example, I highlighted that they repeatedly overload certain champs, which makes them numerically impossible to balance because they just have _**too much of too many things**_ compared to the rest. Then they either let it dictate how everyone is "allowed" to play the game or they just nerf it so hard it's unplayable and then either ignore it for years or do what they're doing with {{champion:7}} and {{champion:13}} where they rework them a million times. That's just sloppy work.
: At this point, I wonder if things could be worse by swapping the rework & balance teams with eachother. I concur the game has been going downhill, ever since they started avoid common sense when it comes to gameplay; anymore they seem to follow the rule 'fun to play as, frustrating to fight against'. To those who question 'how are they loosing players?' Consider this, people who play nothing but ranked have been complaining increasingly loudly about being setup with players outside their rank, why do you suppose that is? If there's not enough people in that rank, the matchmaking system will pull players from other ranks to fill the match. It's a symptom of the growing problem, loosing players.
They need to change a few people around, to be certain. They keep consistently making the most obvious mistakes that even the players see coming, point out in beta, then complain about further on release. But it will still take months for Riot to actually fix the problem they _**knew**_ was there and worse than whatever it was supposed to solve before they even shipped it. And that's without me even getting into the class favoritism. There's never been more than a half-hearted attempt to make AP junglers viable since like S3. As soon as Malzahar jg became playable, they destroyed it _**immediately**_. They refuse to buff Fiddlesticks enough to let him be _**not**_ free kills for Lee Sin to snowball off of and every time they buff him even a little bit, they nerf something else that's way more important to his viability. For example, look how they've been quietly and gradually eliminating every source of MR reduction, but Black Cleaver can be applied in AoE and a ton of champs shred armor on top of it. Look at mages in general. Unless they're a support mage (or a fake assassin like Ahri, LeBlanc, Syndra or Orianna that can basically CC and 2-shot you), their whole purpose as a class is to give mid assassins something easy to kill and snowball off of. But even their "mage update" didn't fix any of that. All they do is temporarily overtune some numbers, then gradually nerf them back down and hope people don't notice. The entire process is just a huge waste of time and resources that could be better spent elsewhere
: It's not about the balance team. If LoL is losing players it's because of toxic babies. Which is why Riot is reworking the Honor system and I am hype.
Honestly, the game is way less toxic now than back when I started. Ranked is still a total cesspool, but at least normals are generally pleasant when you're playing the 15 or so champs Riot says you're allowed to play without getting stat-checked and dominated by people who _are_ playing the Riot favorites
: Its not as easy to perfectly balance a game
Who said anything about perfect? There's a huge chasm between "perfect balance" and the same 2 champs being S-tier Junglers 5 seasons in a row, having to rework the same handful of champions over and over again and releasing new champs that are perpetually one buff or nerf away from dictating the meta or being a total dumpster fire
: When is the last time Tristana was one of the top 3 adcs?
Thankfully, a long time. Her design is just awful, so whenever she's viable she breaks the game
Rioter Comments
: "We like ADC diversity"
You forgot that it's {{champion:236}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:236}} in 3 positions of the game
Rioter Comments
DaNinad (NA)
: Do you hate kassadin and ahri, completely wrecking you?
Or you just play an AD mid and get {{item:3155}} right off the bat. If they're still killing you, their champ isn't the problem.
Rioter Comments
: Cocky Karthus
Probably because it was an accident
: Why is teemo annoying
Teemo is mostly just a running gag from back before Riot nerfed him into the "we don't want you to play this, so we'll make it so you can't" category. Teemo is awful
: Ziggs- What is wrong with this champion?
Ziggs is probably one of the worst champs in the game. Certainly is among the worst in mid. Try playing him against people a few times and you'll soon realize that his Q is not only 99% of DPS, but also virtually impossible to land on anybody under 60 fps who's above silver 5 because its collision radius is barely larger than a pinhead and the bounce mechanics are so slow that it cuts his effective range basically in half. The only way he can gain a foothold in lane is if his opponents are stupid enough to stand by their minions within about 800 range of him the whole time
: > [{quoted}](name=Smitemuffin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AlWbPExx,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-04-09T02:57:46.739+0000) > > Brand's damage drops to 0 if you ward lane brush and learn to dodge spells. It's not that hard people that say this i cant tell if they are trolling or just this stupid.
No wonder you're having trouble then. Clearly you don't know how to play bot lane above maybe 600 elo or this would be obvious. I mean, you're literally complaining that you're getting rolled by somebody who's better than you, therefore it's unfair and their champ needs nerfed XD
Moooose3 (NA)
: I don't care if it's an item, but as a support main, please get rid of that stupid fucking animation. Takes like 10 seconds. What the hell is up with that. Makes you late to ward early.
Yup. My first game playing Kalista, I gave my black spear to my support the second before a jungle invade and got him killed. So fair. Much fun.
: Riot, here's how you balance GP's barrels
Armor reduction is even more cancer than penetration. It's literally taking GP from armor penetration for himself to armor penetration for everyone.
KnifeCat (OCE)
: Why are we reworking tanks instead of tackling the real issue
Thunderlord's Decree is basically the entire problem: it's why assassins can go mid now without even bothering to take {{summoner:14}}, why carries can get instantly bursted even by things without damage items, makes the game snowball too hard
: Riot's idea of a Perfect Tank
That's why Riot lets marksmen buy {{item:3071}} and {{item:3035}} with Ferocity Masteries and negate 82% of all armor before tanks even get a chance to buy it.
Lyseth (NA)
: building a champ pool
You also need to have support champs because getting autofilled to support is inevitable
: so, when are we nerfing brand?
Brand's damage drops to 0 if you ward lane brush and learn to dodge spells. It's not that hard
: How do you play against Renekton?
Renekton is weak until he gets all his basic spells at level 3, so you have an opportunity then to get him low and keep bullying him in lane. After that, you basically need to just lane passively until he falls off after 2nd item. He can be countered with {{champion:86}} who can reduce his burst, silence him and rack up damage. {{champion:164}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:79}} or {{champion:36}} can negate his lane presence by farming safely from range
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