nubulas2 (NA)
: So specifically his off meta pick WAS NOT THE REASON FOR THE BAN WHICH WAS MY POINT FROM THE BEGINNING!!!!!!!!!!!! "refusing to communicate with team" and "refusing to work with team." "picking Singed Support isn't inherently bannable." That is why I wanted YOU to find the reference and post it. I have read the exact same thing and watched his videos.
"Riot Games says they will perma ban Highest Mastery Points Singed, AdellaideSkyhart if he continues to play Support Smite Singed due to it negatively effected his team mates. He has been reported a number of times because of his non-meta playstyle." I am stunned by your resolve to continue playing this game. You only see what you want to see and make that your argument. I will stop replying now.
nubulas2 (NA)
: Quote the source or stop repeating it. These "rules" are not rules just because you think they should be.
If I have to quote something which common sense can adequately fill in, then each post would be an essay long. Are you saying that playing off meta champions that disrupts team gameplay is not reportable? I learned of this directly from the Singed player case in which Riot specifically mentioned what I said earlier in my first post. I seriously do not have the time for you if all you want to do is get the satisfaction or arguing for arguing sake. I am done with your replies unless you have something significant to contribute to this thread. EDIT: Hopefully to shut down your post- "Riot Games says they will perma ban Highest Mastery Points Singed, AdellaideSkyhart if he continues to play Support Smite Singed _**due to it negatively effected his team mates**_. He has been reported a number of times because of his non-meta playstyle." "The warning does say that "picking Singed Support isn't inherently bannable." However, the other two reasons given are "_**refusing to communicate with team**_" and "_**refusing to work with team**_." Is this enough for you or do you want more?
: Again, there is no Riot enforced meta. What you are saying would make the game boring as fuck imo. The reason being that nothing would ever change. Ezrael Jungle would never been a thing. Morgana jungle would never have been a thing. No Mao support. No Naut support. No Malz Support. No Rakan Mid. No funnel strats. No mages in the bot lane. Because none of them were ever meta, until they were.
You said that was off of player data that metas develop and I agreed with you (though it is still highly arguable). I did not say that Riot enforced it since my second post. Your opinion matters just as much as mine and personal preference is where we differ. What is boring or not is highly subjective. Following your point, if you argue that Ezreal, Morg, etc... are the meta, where are they now? It is because they still fall short from the more consistent "boring" meta. Notice that each time a niche meta appears, it is due to recent patches that notch power from one particular strategy to another. Non of the afro-mentioned Ez JG, Morg JG still exists because they were not the developer's intent and as a result, are usually patched (this is what I meant by highly arguable).
nubulas2 (NA)
: Playing off meta champions** that disrupts the team's gameplay** is a reportable offense. I have never even heard that, nor read it anywhere. And if that is a rule, it is the most insanely moronic bullshit rule possible.
Ignorance of a rule is not a good foundation for your bad mouthed opinion. Recall to the double jungle Singed support player and you'll know exactly what I mean.
: Riot has never created a list declaring which champion aren't allowed to be played in ranked bassed off meta, playing something off-meta isn't trolling either its just a different way to play, i win most my shaco support games and that is considered trolling in most cases but if it works and gets the victory's i don't need to play boring meta supports.
It was my mistake to not make my post clearer. I never claimed playing outside of a champions role is trolling. I did not even hint at it. I am suggesting that he plays champions that fit their designated roles to avoid being identified as a troll.
: You mean the list in the champ select to filter picks? Because that is based off data. If people started playing more Soraka top, she would be added to the top filter. So lets adjust the statement: There is no Riot enforced meta.
And that is exactly my point. Since it is based of off player data like you suppose, then it is not within the meta that Soraka should go top. Ergo, Soraka top is not according to the meta displayed by the in-game filter (which is based off of player data).
: 'off meta', nah it doesent work that way, according to Riot there isnt a fixed set of champions you MUST take into ranked, if so, GIVE ME that list, i want to see it.
Yes there is an off meta list*. Each champion is assigned a role and if the champion is played outside it's role, its off meta. Please do not make me list them all out to you. Do a simple Google search. It's also in the game itself. As a precaution, I give one example so that our time would not be wasted further. If you take Alistar (assigned by Riot themselves as SUPPORT) and play it as a Mid lane, IT IS OFF META. So yes, it works that way. So please stop spamming and just play normally. You don't have to be special to enjoy or stand out in the game. All good things have humble beginnings my friend. *EDIT: When I meant a list, I do not mean that Riot has an actual list on their hands with checkmarks on each champion with designated roles. I meant that there is a certain guideline (hence in-game filters) which Riot use to generally control which champion should, not must, be played in their respective roles. Avoiding the list is not a crime - -never claimed it to be - - but will raise suspicion and attention of teammates and therefore, easily targetable as being a troll.
: There needs to be a report for griefing on champ picks
You have to stop spamming these posts. Your voice was already heard. There is not much to discuss here. 1. There is a magical solution, play with your friends in the bot lane. 2. Playing off meta champions** that disrupts the team's gameplay** is a reportable offense. And this goes back to point 1 if you want to avoid it.
: It depends on ranked or normals. Normals go with someone that should be in the role to learn and get better at them. (Unless of course you're experimenting with off meta picks.) Ranked go with someone you're familiar with so you don't cost the game if you got filled. Yasuo engage would be his tornado. There are other supports that don't have good engage though. Like lulu. Lulu is more poke and protect. (And since no one else followed up on your reference, I will. Lol.) I'm not your pal, buddy.
The barrier between unranked and Ranked are quite thin in my opinion; a level 30 account with 20 champions unlocked. Even though I agree with your idea, most of the others do not. If you were to look at other Player Behavior posts right now, no doubt you will see people arguing that they are special snowflakes because they are off meta players. Four people must conform to the one player's champion. I feel like the direction of this entire thread has gone a little askew but I am still very much happy over how it has developed. But I still must say this, if you do want to experiment regardless in ranked or not, do it with your friends. And sorry to say this but, I'm not your buddy, guy.
: >I would argue that draft mode is worst than ranked since there are no stakes. Literally none. There is a stake for every game mode... TIME. Most people only have time to play so many games a day (some only 1). No one wants to be stuck with an ivern adc for potentially an hour if a good way out is a simple 5/15 minutes wait.
I understand. I would have included time, but we are speaking of in game resources.
nyuby (NA)
: Love your reply. ^^ As a new player myself, I love to explore. And frankly, since my language isn't that great, trying to figure out what's going on isn't always easy. I too take to dodging sometimes because I don't know how to play certain champs. And frankly, when I go in PVP, it's a hit-miss for me. I'm not doing it to exasperate or try to troll, or to make life difficult for people. I'm just trying to gain exposure since I find that bots move so much slower than real players. And in SR, for instance, the bots don't start to emerge until later. This gives a farming advantage initially. But how would I have known of that if I didn't take part in PvP? I would have assumed there was a lag each time. ~~It could also boil down to the fact that people think differently; something that makes sense to me may not make sense to you, and vice versa~~ I just wish there was a better way other than dodging, or that there would be a better training mode. Perhaps one where there is a training arena where people are just trying out random ideas? Sure, it might fail badly, but I've never been one to learn from theory. I can't imagine the theory enough. I just wish there were some way to balance my needs more with the needs of the others around.
Well said my friend. You are right, exploration is good and I commend your attitude when being clumped up with others who "explore" unhealthily. The meta we have now was developed by the then off meta players. As you mentioned with the Training mode, perhaps a game mode where off meta compositions can be experimented with. And I do empathize with you regarding the "go play bots" jargon. The potential of a new meta cannot be explored with bots. However, I'm afraid that will only serve to encourage these unhealthy explorers. Let's assume that the new Training mode is implemented. Soon you will have these "explorers" infiltrating Ranked games (the integrity of LoL) and they can justify themselves because Riot indirectly supported them. Again, I believe common sense and the meta exists for a reason. I have no doubt that the meta will always perform more consistently than off metas. I would only suggest off meta players (such as yourself) to play in a group match. That is the only way currently that I can think of for it to work.
: > [{quoted}](name=Snakebreaker,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=rif6goNG,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-18T13:16:33.381+0000) > > Point taken. However my dear friend, lets not get too far here. You are missing the point. The point isn't whether if Yasuo is in or off meta, it is why dodging a queue due to an intentional bad pick results in the punishment of the dodger? You must have at least once in your life met a player that made a bad pick haven't you? And that is what I am trying to convey. It's because by dodging you've just wasted 9 other people's time. Say it took 30 seconds for you to dodge in select. That mean's you've wasted 4 minutes and 30 seconds, which is damn close to 5 minutes. Seems fair to me.
An interesting comment. I have never thought of it that way. But your assumption becomes the down fall of your argument. Are you saying that if your team sees an ADC Ivern pick it is an absolute good use of their time? Are you also saying that when a player decides to do something that will cost the team, and I, by taking an action which will result in me not losing my time knowing full well I will lose, a waste of time? As a matter of fact, one player who dodges saves the other three players in the team the dodge penalty. I could lose 15 minutes (earliest FF time) or 30 seconds (as you used for champ select). So which one wastes more time? I am following your argument to its logical conclusion of course. And my dear friend, if 9 players did wasted 30 seconds of their time, the total amount of time the 9 players wasted is still 30 second... Time and math does not add up like that... Therefore, I find it hard to accept your opinion. Now, I do not expect you to read the rest of the thread. But my thoughts on dodging and its penalty has found peace so I am in a sense replying to my older self.
: Reported for picking a 'troll' support
Nothing beats the feeling of losing time and progress. That much is true when a team fight happens and they realize that no one can protect their Marksmen or help save a dying ally if they only had some sort of sustain from a Support champion. The meta exists for a reason, it is so that the game can actually work. If you want to be an off meta Support, you should queue or at least communicate with your lane. If I lock in immediately ADC Ivern, would you not be tempted to report me? I'll even say you "_suck so bad at the game you think an ADC pick matters_" Of course I am not discouraging you from playing the way you enjoy the game and to be creative. However, if it disrupts communication and composition, then should girdle up your loins and not do it. This is a team game. If you do not think that, then it is you who are bad at the game.
: Why so tilted over what others pick in draft mode? In ranked, I understand getting a bit tilted. As a support main, when I see ADC lock in Ivern (Yes, that actually happened once), I know I am going to lose LP if I play, so I dodge. First dodge of day = 5 minutes and a few LP. But way better than 20 minutes and 20 LP, so I do it and accept it. No loss of MMR, so next game if I win, I get back almost everything I lost from a first dodge of the day. Second dodge = 15 minutes. Now that sucks. And it frequently means I am done playing for the day... or at least for a while. I will find something else to do rather than sit tight for 15 minutes. AND the LP loss is higher. So now I get annoyed. But still, a 5 minute penalty that helps discourage people from dodging is ok by me. Alternative is that I look at my entire team on, look up their win rates on their selected champ and dodge every game where anyone on the team is sub 50% win rate? In that case, the number of dodges will make you wait MUCH longer than 5 minutes to find a game.
My friend, your ability of perceiving anger through online words amazes me. I didn't even know that I was tilted myself. All jokes aside, yes I empathize with your experience. However, just because there are no ranking system (Bronze, Silver, etc) in draft mode, doesn't mean that a player cannot be frustrated. I would argue that draft mode is worst than ranked since there are no stakes. Literally none. What is stopping them from going Ivern ADC? They do not lose LP. I am sure you understand where I am getting at. Unlike you, I always play through any game, ranked or not, regardless if there are ADC Iverns or not. I know that dodging will help save some precious LP in light of a confirmed loss. It is just my thick skulled nature to be stubborn even though it causes my hair to grey faster and clinging on to the hopes of #comebackisreal. Not to mention that I always thought of dodging the same as quitting and I don't like that. After so many replies and opinions on this post, the fact still stands (and to quote Imperial Panda); "_If you want to dodge, that is your choice. You can deal with the repercussions of it._" I now see that dodging is inevitable along with its penalty. Seeing the way you use the dodging system to your advantage gave me a new opinion on dodging. I suppose that Riot was aware of this problem and did give players a way out of it. Thank you friend.
: I feel like the reference joke was missed. ;-; anyways. Here is the what I believe to be the problem. Who gets to decide what is and isn't a bad pick? Sorry, I'm not going to trust the players; and since Riot doesn't want to enforce a meta outside of lane assignments (pending agreement in unusual strats and trades), there really isn't anyone who can. It would become a matter of opinion per player. Sure, I've had people make questionable picks. I've even made some questionable picks. If the game goes through, people seem to get a pleasant surprise. _And I will respectfully disagree. While I encourage people to learn multiple champions, I will leave it to their choice if they want to or not. Being a OTP is their choice. There will be pros and cons to each choice no matter what._
Thank you for narrowing my thoughts. You are right, ultimately what is a good pick or bad pick can be highly subjective and down to personal opinion. However, there are certain principles (and common sense which human beings have....) that should guide our picks. BUT it is when they defy all common sense (I still cannot foresee that Yasuo Support will EVER be viable at any degree), that I think dodging the game is completely justified. Again I ask, should I be punished when players pick champions that cannot fit their DESIGNATED role (in a way that works to actually benefit the team, and not the players personal preference of a particular champion)? Of course, the problem remains the same, it is difficult for Riot to detect it. I am sure if Riot could they would.
: How is this a fair perma ban?
No one is instantly perma banned. You received it because you had a a bad history with unsportsman-like behavior. Judging from your chat log, you very likely deserved it too.
> [{quoted}](name=Yasuo VS Riven,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=kmYxyBIo,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-08-18T03:59:46.228+0000) > > riot your punishment system makes no fucking sense i can call someone a fucking dickhead because they int and troll then i get banned when nothing happens to them fuck your punishment system that things shit fucking fix it already > > Edit: SOME KID WHO GANKED ME 4 FUCKING TIMES IN 10 MINUTES IS CALLING ME TRASH AND IM EXPECTED TO SIT HERE AND TAKE IT "JUST REPORT HIM" NO NOTHING WILL FUCKING HAPPEN If reporting really do not work, how did you get banned? Presumably you were reported and banned yourself. Do you see a problem here? The player who trolled will receive his punishment that is for sure. It worked on you didn't it?
: Then that comes down to your choice. Would you rather have someone playing a champion they know well that is off meta, or a meta champ that they do not know well? Imo, Yasuo wouldn't even be the worse support if they would start Relic to help with gold gen. The wind wall could help a lot. Issue becomes engage at that point. And sorry, everytime I see that or similar I must make the reference: I'm not your friend, pal.
Point taken. However my dear friend, lets not get too far here. You are missing the point. The point isn't whether if Yasuo is in or off meta, it is why dodging a queue due to an intentional bad pick results in the punishment of the dodger? You must have at least once in your life met a player that made a bad pick haven't you? And that is what I am trying to convey. _And to answer your question, I do prefer them to play a champion that they do not know well so that they can learn to play without costing the other 4 players during team fight. I don't have to tell you the answer if you were to ask any decent ADC whether they prefer a Yasuo or (let's pick a meta support) Janna support. This is a team game and composition matters regardless of their skill in a particular champion. Let's leave it at that. _
: How do you know they aren't taking it seriously? Because they pick Yasuo support or something? Off Meta =/= Not serious. If you want to dodge, that is your choice. You can dela with the repercussions of it.
Friend, I do encourage off meta players. But do not assume that all off meta Supports are good off meta Supports. If a player tells you that he only knows how to play Yasuo and will only play Yasuo at the expense of the team's composition ( since this is a team game), then I find it hard to not point a finger at that player.
: You don't lose MMR for dodging. That's the compensation The time penalty is in place so that matches can actually start and not hav players go through 20 lobbies beforehand
Yes, I understand that. My point being; why should I be the one to receive the penalty? That is a rhetorical question of course. I am only wondering if Riot is aware of this problem.
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