: TSM at Worlds 2019, oh wait
I don't know what is going on with TSM. Something happened behind the scenes and no one is saying what. I mean something bad happened. I'm sure we'll find out eventually.
: Congrats TSM
I don't know what just happened in the last two weeks, but ... wow. Just. Wow.
: No Riot, I will definitely not recommend the game to anyone at this point.
> [{quoted}](name=Steeds of Time,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=HaxkP5yl,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-07-28T12:41:55.762+0000) > > I will 100% respectfully not recommend League for any friends of mine. Here are 3 reasons why and I kept repeating them to some people since they are the most relevant to me. But here we go. > > The community is even more toxic than in the previous years, there is not an effective ban system in function (the one working in the present is inefficient) and many inters, trolls and so on are roaming the game freely and ruin many more games until finally, they receive some sort of punishment. > > Then there is the balancing. A complete joke and disrespect to the players that want to have fun and play strategically at the same time. The game in its current state is not entertaining, feels like I get anxiety whenever I play unfortunately (since season 8 to be precise) and I have no idea how Riot employees (the majority or I don't know, not specifying on people) think that damage is the way to go for this sort of a game. LoL is dying and I give it maximum 3-4 years until the loyal player base will finally be gone. And I am part of that base. Many left, and many more will soon start giving up if nothing will be done. We (the players) expected to see some considerable tunning down of the damage introduced in season 8 for the preseason of season 9, yet besides the turret plates, no significant change. > > And finally, not many Rioters seem to use the Boards, where so many useful topics about the game, especially balancing are being created every once in a while. Many say it is a dumb hole filled with salty people. Well yes, we are salty because WE LOVE THE GAME, AND NO ONE WANTS TO LISTEN TO US. > > There are more reasons for why it is not worth to even consider the recommendation to people you know. But yeah, guess it doesn't matter too much for Riot. They are probably thinking of which champions to buff next for a future skin release. > {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}} As a person who has played in every single season I can say that right now, the reason I do not play, is because of the toxic attitude of the community, lack of voice communication in public games, and the game isn't as fun anymore. The game isn't fun when I log in for the first time in two weeks, go 0/10 on anivia and get flamed hard as fuck because I got destroyed and I can't even get out of the game ...
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=SobeDragon,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=tXAAuKP5,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-06-23T06:50:04.301+0000) > > we need a TAB where we can see the other teams compositions. Think of it as champion screen ingame, Items/Champions instead of champions items. It could include gold amount, win/loss streak, and current health level. It would be immensely helpful. I could see this being a feature. Though maybe not exact gold information (see 4th quote). You can see what a player has by clicking on their icon and it will take you to where that player is at (so if they are at the carousel or attacking someone it will move the camera there). You can already see all the players' health on the right side of the screen. > Items at their current iteration are kind of bad. They need a serious overhaul. I've seen items disappear, If you buy a champion for an item, but you don't want to combo it with a guy on the board because his item combo doesn't match what you want, it doesn't matter it auto levels the champion and you get whatever item it gives you. So instead of a bloodthirster on your Vayne, you get a Spatula and you get a Vayne thats also a sorcerer and you don't get your force of nature. Game Changing Items. Really Important decisions Cant be made on Items because of This. Sometimes items visually disappear for me but they reappear next round. Not sure if their effects are gone, but I assume they are still there if that is what you are talking about. Otherwise, I think that is the point. Who you buy on the carousel is an important choice because of what item they might be holding and not taking this into account is a mistake on the players part. If the champ already has three items through the new item will fall off and go to your inventory. > Theres no damage screen. I don't know whos doing what damage, when should I replace this unit? I don't know I need information If you watch the champs while they fight you should see damage numbers just like in a normal game of League. Maybe a visual tool to help process that info would be nice like a death screen except you see if after each battle and perhaps can pull it up during the match. Maybe even a few matches later by using arrows to navigate, > There's no gold income information. I get what I feel is random amounts of gold because I don't SEE why its happening. Its a feature we all know exists, but you don't deal with it, I don't know what my enemies gold status is. What's a normal amount of gold? Am I behind? Should I level up? The UI in general for levels and stuff is weaksauce. > > The UI for your gold amounts is tiny, with large amounts of open area with just color there, MAKE TEXT BIGGER FOR THE REROLL AND EXP BUTTONS. Now, this took me a while to figure out. Isn't it strange that it is so tiny? Try hovering your mouse over it. :3 You will see stats such as passive income, interest and win/loss streak gold as well as expected total income. Also, those things on everyone's left is their interest and since you get +1 interest for every 10 gold you can sort of gauge how much gold a player has based on how many of those things are there. >Scrap the Carousel. Please god. Scrap the thing. Cool idea, but dear lord is it random and you can see it literally win/lose games for people. Its so broken. Especially with how unbalanced it is at the moment. Well, it kind of is like what the whole game is about. I think its a pretty creative way to balance the game. People lose games cause they make poor decisions. Perhaps they grab a champ just for gold and don't use it, or they rely on it too much or they mess up item combinations. I even like that the people losing get to choose first. Though it kind of sucks if your last and what you want is on the other side and it takes you to long to get over there and someone gets free and takes it at the last second. So I guess you can say that it still maintains an element of randomness.
The game is already random, You get random items from minions, you get random champion pulls from rolling or at the start of new rounds, and you get random actions from your minions on the board. I've seen a fully stacked Vayne die in two seconds to a tier two Khazix at the start of a round, and I've seen the same assassin attack a tank instead and die instantly so theres that too. This level of "random" is ok I guess, I have no issue with the random carousel. getting a random item/champion every few rounds is kinda cool, but making it immediately combo items on the characters is annoying as shit. Can we just separate the item and the champion? Can the item go to the bench and the champion go on your bench or auto combine? If my combo can be completed with a Swain, but I have a giants belt on the lvl 1 swain I have in, and I want to grab the other swain on the board with the spatula, why do I now have to take the item combo too? Its too random. Personally I think the Carousel CAN work, but with how important Items are, it can really screw with you. I would just honestly like the ability to choose what the champion does after you get it off the carousel than the game auto combining the champion/item and not even giving you the option to not combine them.
Rioter Comments
: Thank you G2 for putting Doublelift right where he deserves.
Doublelift has been at the fucking top of the league of Legends leaderboards since the competitive scene started. I think he's pretty goddamn good.
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Tiamat - bit too strong a spike as a rush item, power of wave clear offered's very high even if not always appreciated. Compensation - Potentially. Might mean we buff WW a bit more than we otherwise would for example. Also open to helping any other champs hit hard who shouldn't be brought down a bit power wise anyway.
I feel like Tiamat should have a base damage that is based on champion level and have no scaling with bonus ad until the item is upgraded. That would stop the Tiamat rush real quick.
: Can We All Agree The Balance Team Doesn't Know What They're Doing
wait until the dark harvest aoe starts taking over. Once people realise how freaking strong it is on poke champs... I kill you? I snowball. I don't kill you? Next time its gonna do more damage. for free.
: Does anyone else feel like Riot doesn't know how to handle Tanks anymore?
Hey remember all those posts like 3-4 years ago warning about power creep and as they add more champions and rework they are going to have to put more power into older champions? And how as they do this they will add more and more bad designs like a champion who is permenently untargetable in shroud as long as they don't cast anything like Akali Or can put up a wall every 15 seconds that negates everything thrown at it like Yasuo. Why wouldn't it only negate the first item thrown at it? Then you could put more into his damage, maybe reduce the amount of dashes or make it so the dashes have a way longer cooldowns for Yasuo who can multi stack dashes on multiple people and still two shot people. How can you balance a game when there are toxic design choices in your champions is a better question in my opinion. You can't tell me a champion with AA resets, Multiple dashes, huge stun range that can hit an entire team, an ult that disables enemy champions and reduces damage taken and has a w that greatly reduces damage taken. You want a prime example of Riots Balance? Anivia. They removed her "toxic lane domination" by removing her E/R combo in lane. It was her primary way of trading in lane. Now you gotta land multiple spells to even trade properly. Meanwhile champions like Zed can move in and out and even 100 to 0 her easily if she misses her spells, but if she lands hers, it doesn't kill him. Balance can be awful with these games because one champion can literally break the meta and completely flip the balance.
: I'm extremely outmatched in all my games
If you want to improve, you know how to improve. There are literally thousands of YouTube videos and at least three sites I can think of where you can pay for assistance as well. All that is great, but none of that compares to literally just practicing your mechanics and learning cooldowns so you know when to go in and when to attack. If you want a good list of videos, go watch Aphromoos Support is So Easy! Video. Check out IWDs dominate series. 30 videos in and the last one was a shaco Challenger one trick showing how he plays Shaco. Phylol has some good stuff. Tricks old gates videos are pretty good for explaining split pushing. Bjergsen doesn't say much, but he does some insane mechanical stuff that can really show you high end potential of champs. Go watch some of the Skill-capped videos too. Those are pretty good and a lot of pro players get featured. Mostly just lots and lots of solid consistent practice where you use the same posture, position, and you do everything you can perfectly in the game as much as possible. Until csing is second nature and you don't have to think about it it's easy like buttoning your jeans or putting on a belt.
: I think we should give C9 some credit
I think what happened to Fnatic and C9 is a systemic issue from training against their competition. Gauging threat range when most enemy teams don't even attempt that kill is tough, like lvl 2 ganking a lissandra with leblanc/Lee sin. The potential for that is in literally every game. In any game that event can happen, but it didn't in any game, it happened in this game. Because we don't access the threat when it's available to the enemy. We only see the play that happened, not the plays that could have happened. Other regions see the potential and go for it, NA knows its there, but thinks it's unlikely they will go for it, and that's why they fall for it so often.
: It's a 4v5. It's been a 4v5 for 15 minutes. We have lost twice as many turrets as taken.
There are always going to be outliers to the situation he is painting, FYI. The problem is some players don't see that. They think all games are winnable, even when they are massively far behind and die 10 times, they think it's positioning or op champ. Did you ever just consider the game is over? In other sports they call it. When you play football and you lose a quarterback, and your down 30 points and there's only a quarter left to play and you haven't scored more than a field goal since the first quarter, wouldn't you want to leave that game? Riot gives you the opportunity to wash that game, and move on, TAKE IT. Sometimes when you feed an akali 3 kills before ten minutes, the game can be over. It happens. Moving on actually increases your ability to move up in ELO. If you are better, a larger pool of games will cause your rank to rise. 3 games in two hours where you lose 2 doesn't generate as much as if you won 3 but surrendered 2 in that same two hours. That's why people want to surrender.
: This game has been dumbed down so hard it's disgusting
You have been complaining about every champion in every meta. You have complained when any champion shows you why they are a good champion. You provide no actual numbers or a way to resolve the issue outside of complaining about it Yup, this post is a waste of time. You will never be happy with game balance because the game isn't balanced and isn't meant to be. There are counterpicks, champion power creep does exist and riot works on those things. No game is ever going to have perfect balance, but to bitch about balance EVERY PATCH, shows me you don't know how to read the meta and pick the strongest champs. There is literally no way to create unique, creative individual champions with unique abilities and skillsets, without affecting the balance of gameplay. There is always going to be "weak" and strong champs. That's the nature of these types of games. If you can't accept that more often than not, Irelia is going to shit on squishy immobile champions, then don't play league, you won't like it. Additionally there have been more unique champion picks this world's than the last one, how is the meta and balance getting worse?
: > [{quoted}](name=SobeDragon,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=a8lbX5pj,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2018-11-04T20:30:12.319+0000) > > China has had a few teams, but they were all promotional teams built by companies trying to sell to women gamers. For the past week, Youtube has been trying to get me to watch this video on a female team from China that had three supports. I'm never going to click it so I wish they'd stop suggesting it...
Saw that same video, good call totally not worth it. Chinese models paid to be League players, their promotional video was them 'kind of' playing LOL but against bots... They've never had an actual tournament or real time playing the game. It's like paying car models to race. Shit don't make sense, there are women league of legends players stop trying to force women to play and pawn them off as professional players. It's annoying and it's a pretty obvious lie
: Why are there no pro female players in league?
Team Renegade from NA had a female player for 1 year. Then the team disbanded and we haven't seen her since. China has had a few teams, but they were all promotional teams built by companies trying to sell to women gamers. Team Siren should never be brought up again, that was a fucking joke. They took mid tier diamond players and because they were female and they wanted to empower female players, they threw them against high challenger and professional players and then tried to say because they were female they failed. (not my words, more of a community based feeling). I think the biggest hurdle is to get a honest to goodness female that is a high challenger mid carry that is a fantastic mid like Bjergsen or Rookie or Faker. That will happen eventually, but women have to push and work for it.
: I think most people know that DOPA is a monster, this guy is always able to find counters and create strategies to meet anything OP that pops up. Heck he stomps Irelia mid with veigar even when getting ganked frequently in high diamond in korea....i saw all i needed to x)
For sure Dopa is one of the best minds in League. Has done some questionable stuff in his league career but one thing they've never been able to take from him was his insane game knowledge and a great ability to strategize and prepare on the fly. He's a fantastic player who is an even better coach. Fnatic also have great game players with great knowledge, but IG capitalized on Fnatic playing the beginning of the map at a standard speed while IG pretty much pushed for fights lvl 2 3 every single game.
: Yeah but still they used his knowledge about game. In "Dopa talks" he for example stated that Camille with a click cc mage is gg. Never said why though but I believe he told IG why. adne tc. dopa signatue things are allover in IG team.
Camille +cc mage is gg. Well yeah of course it is. The engage range for her E flash at level 2 combined with her q true damage, stun,any cc mage at level 2 with her kit is almost guaranteed a kill if it lands. It's not suprising, what's surprising is that Fnatics coaches didn't recognize the strategy and compensate for it. What's surprising is Hylissang dying 3 times less than 10 minutes into a world's final deciding game 3.
Azca33 (NA)
: Do NALCS players really make over $320,000 a year?
NFL rookies also don't practice for 10 hours a day almost every day for a year and get called trash because they don't win the super bowl. The players in League put in huge efforts to be at the top of their game all year. If you miss a block in the NFL it can cost you a game, if you misclick a button in League even a minute into the game, it can cost you everything. Players in League don't get paid enough imo.
saltran (EUW)
: KT vs IG (2-3) on Quarters was the real final.
Except it was the quarterfinals and if KT was going to make that run they needed to beat Invictus. If the roles were reversed and Fnatic lost that tie breaker out of groups, we probably have a KT rolster EDG final.
: Game at All Stars where all players first time new champions
I think making them play the lowest win percentage champs for each role in a mirror match would be really fun too.
: Lets be honest ...IG was too good..
IG did something that Fnatic didn't, IG went and learned how to affect lanes between 2 and 3 minutes, and once they did they punished whoever they did that to, then transitioned it around the map. The did it top middle and bot and Fnatic just was slower on the gank paths, their laners weren't expecting the lvl 2 jungle ganks, and IG consistently picked a jungler that could gank lvl 2/3 with dashes and cc. Their coaches failed them by not seeing IGs strategy and adapting their bans to make IG beat them another way
: Lets be honest ...IG was too good..
Gg fnatic? You mean the team that picked lane dominant Physical champions in all three lanes and jungle, then wondered why they lost to a balanced composition with better cc and faster ganking speed/paths?
: Every major region has won worlds but NA
Well to be fair, NA needs to split the country. They need East/West/Central servers for America. Split the regions into LA Chicago and NY and work on getting ping averages for most players below 20, and you will see NA improve. Also, people not being bitches and being willing to talk work and grow at the competitive level in diamond Challenger would be nice too. My favorite thing from world's was all the NA players talking about "Omg Solo Queue players talk to each other after games and discuss in game decisions and compositions!". Yes it's called a region wanting to be competitive and willing to work for it. NA just want the results and don't care about the team, they want the glory of saying "look how awesome I am!". It's why Doublelift always falls apart at world's. He has no trust in his team, and makes aggressive moves at inopportune moments and gets punished. Like him walking up to a Mid laner with all their spells up when he's a level down and half health and then acting surprised that he dies.
theTyger (NA)
: Worked soooo hard to avoid spoilers, thanks Rito... :( :( :(
Guys the world's was based in China, we did the same exact thing to them during world's when it was hosted here. It's the nature of having an international tournament across the globe in a central location. I agree it sucks to see spoilers, but I'm still going to watch the games because I may know the result, but I wanna see the in game decisions that led to that result. Also, are you really surprised by World's results? If you stayed up til 430 and watched Fnatic shit the bed in Game 1 you would know the result. Just saying.
: Dopa couching The Shy.
Many of the tactics used by fnatic were hot garbage. Can't plan for dying 3 times and losing tower before 9 minutes. Dopa coaching didn't make fnatic draft an All AD composition with no real tank, or picking Urgot into Irelia/Gragas and dying twice before ten minutes. Or Hylissang dying three times and bot losing a tower before ten minutes. IG went super aggressive the first few minutes of the game and it massively paid off.
: Send Cloud9 Your Worlds Energy!
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ C9 TAKE MY ENERGY ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
Rioter Comments
Jikker (NA)
: Net Neutrality Discussion Guidelines
I mean, are there people out there that think getting rid of net neutrality is a good thing? I haven't met any people. Most people when they hear what it is, go "oh yeah i would be in favor of that"
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=SobeDragon,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=aHiW5X9E,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2017-10-18T01:53:22.477+0000) > > I think this true, but there is a lot of weakness is warding and macro control of overall game strategy that I do see that directly relates to the coaches. Mentality going into these games is weak too. I'd rather them say "These teams are strong members of their region, but we are too. We will simply play our game and play to our strengths." What are their strengths? They are solid in all of their lanes. They play extremely well 5v5. What are their weaknesses? Warding. Map Pressure. Reading the Meta. Team Composition. Adaptability. > > Those are serious weaknesses. Most of them though come from 2 things. > > Coaches should be drilling into them what the difference between a power top lane and a tank top lane is, and how to play around it. What ADC's push better earlier compared to each other. > > They played against Xayah, where was the Sivir or the Caitlyn? Doublelift can play both, both provide amazing early game minion clear, work well with Ardent Sensor, have a decent escapes, and has great damage late game. Sivir/Caitlyn ADC would be amazing with this meta. Plus, Sivir can block Xayah roots and Caitlyn can E out of them. Why was this not even thought about by any teams? Do people think Sivir is bad? Shes got a lower range than most, but thats made up by her blade bounce hitting champs in the back providing a way to get through front lanes and provide wave clear. Plus she has a great way to engage a teamfight with her team speed up. > > Why not Taliyah? Wall keeps Xayah from backing out with her ult with her ult, provides ways to split teams from objectives. They could have pulled out these picks and worked out ways to engage them toe to toe. They instead picked weaker early game champs for later stronger champs, but games aren't going 35/40 games. Improvise. Adapt. Overcome. > > I think they need a military strategist with experience in League. That would make things interesting IMO. I can't really say whose choice it is to pick the champion. There is no way the coaches have the final say in the picks. I don't think they have that much say. Rather, I think it's the players make a suggestion and the coaches normally have to make a comp out of the range. The reason i say this is because TSM wouldn't give coaches the pwoer of their "superstars" like Doublelift, Bjerg, or Haunt. Also, I think a lot of the analyst said what the problem is with picking Sivir or Caitlyn in this meta. You may get the early game, but the issue is, if you lose ONE fight mid or late game, the hyper carries end up outscaling. We have see in that majority of the games. Janna/Lulu with Doran Shield just makes it too easy for Twitch, Kog, and Trist to survive the early game. Don't confuse what happened with WE and EDG. They snowballed because of the J4/Galio, and the bad ADC players (DL..etc) Also, Taliyah is still popular in LCK but in LPL and it isn't as popular the Galio (because of J4 and ADC protection it offers). Taliyah can't really kill bully an ADC anymore with Janna/Lulu or Ardent. The ADC's spike harder. Ryze also beats Taliyah in lane because his W counters her Q. Also, I don't think the draft itself was bad. The strategy that TSM tried was valid, we have seen it get played and it work successfully. The issue is, I just don't think that strategy works for them. SKT/LZ can pull it off because the laners are not just the top players in their regions, but the world. TSM just can't do that same strategy against everyone.
> [{quoted}](name=xJLx MCHammer,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=aHiW5X9E,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2017-10-18T03:01:54.066+0000) > > I can't really say whose choice it is to pick the champion. > > There is no way the coaches have the final say in the picks. I don't think they have that much say. Rather, I think it's the players make a suggestion and the coaches normally have to make a comp out of the range. The reason i say this is because TSM wouldn't give coaches the pwoer of their "superstars" like Doublelift, Bjerg, or Haunt. > > Also, I think a lot of the analyst said what the problem is with picking Sivir or Caitlyn in this meta. You may get the early game, but the issue is, if you lose ONE fight mid or late game, the hyper carries end up outscaling. We have see in that majority of the games. Janna/Lulu with Doran Shield just makes it too easy for Twitch, Kog, and Trist to survive the early game. Don't confuse what happened with WE and EDG. They snowballed because of the J4/Galio, and the bad ADC players (DL..etc) > > Also, Taliyah is still popular in LCK but in LPL and it isn't as popular the Galio (because of J4 and ADC protection it offers). Taliyah can't really kill bully an ADC anymore with Janna/Lulu or Ardent. The ADC's spike harder. Ryze also beats Taliyah in lane because his W counters her Q. > > Also, I don't think the draft itself was bad. The strategy that TSM tried was valid, we have seen it get played and it work successfully. The issue is, I just don't think that strategy works for them. SKT/LZ can pull it off because the laners are not just the top players in their regions, but the world. TSM just can't do that same strategy against everyone. if coaches dont have final say on picks/overall strategy there is a problem there. picking an aggressive top laner with sven playing so passive was a horrible idea. Also, red side, is not a good side to gank top from
Thulious (NA)
: Cause this has kept the NFL from having one team continually win (Pats) and some teams continually place last (Browns)?
The browns are continually last place because they refuse to let the process play out and build their team. It would be like if because Immortals could never make it to a worlds event, they just cut their entire roster and got all new players every split. They could never build a team that knows each other that way. Thats basically what the Browns do. Every two years its a new coach, a new front office, and they cut half the players.
: I wouldn't be upset if they let the top two Challenger teams play a play-in game for the Last LCS play off spot at the end of the spring and summer split, similar to the way the NCAA tournament is played. They wouldn't be given a permanent spot in the LCS but would at least get a chance to prove themselves. I also think they need to increase the number of teams to about 12-16 or even more. I think it really takes away from the players as a whole if they lose the ability to get to the LCS. as a regular player.
Well the whole point of the Challenger teams is to garner talent for their LCS teams. Forcing teams to play for spots in the LCS garners a fracturing of new and upcoming talent. By creating an avenue in which young new players can learn and grow with current Pro players, makes sure that teams have a way to protect their investment in that player when they feel they are ready to go pro. Much like the NFL uses College Football to draft and pool talent from which they train/cut/add to rosters. The smaller number of players per team just means the competition and pool for players is THAT much smaller.
: The players are cocky and don’t take the game seriously. This stems from their ownership with Reginald. Reginald is the ultimate detriment to TSM. I don’t really blame Parth at all. Blaming the coaching for bad play isn’t a decent direction, though I don’t think Parth is great either. Reginald encourages a toxic and cocky playing environment. Get rid of Reginald first. He needs to sell the team to someone else.
> [{quoted}](name=IncrediPhiLL,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=aHiW5X9E,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-10-17T13:29:35.173+0000) > > The players are cocky and don’t take the game seriously. This stems from their ownership with Reginald. Reginald is the ultimate detriment to TSM. I don’t really blame Parth at all. Blaming the coaching for bad play isn’t a decent direction, though I don’t think Parth is great either. > > Reginald encourages a toxic and cocky playing environment. Get rid of Reginald first. He needs to sell the team to someone else. I feel its more a problem of Reginald thinks he knows better, and puts pressure on his players to be vocal. If Reginald would hire some actual coaches and analysts that work on their overall strategy and team comps, I think the dominance that TSM shows in NA would be WORLDS above what they do now. They seem to play to their enemies mistakes, rather than force solid plays with several objectives in mind. They've done ganks bot lane, taken the tower, then all backed. Where were the wards to the inside of their jungle so that when the tower was down they could go for dragon with ward/lane control? They've gotten to used to timelines of games because, they throw in the middle of games so often Making them last longer. They need better warding control and intel. They have two problems, either they fall behind early and turtle up and give up too much pressure on the map to make comebacks at Worlds, OR they get ahead and get too aggressive with a lack of intel on enemy movements and lack of ward control over primary objectives causing mistakes at Worlds and Regionally.
: Both I’m the coaches believe that the players are world class so they expect them to do well in lane international. This is untrue; pretty much all the owners did average or were losing to the opponents. The players should let the coaches know and not let their ego stop them. You don’t always have win lane. TSMs strategy works in their region because they top the list for nearly every role. Internationally, that’s far from true
> [{quoted}](name=xJLx MCHammer,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=aHiW5X9E,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-10-17T14:32:06.751+0000) > > Both > I’m the coaches believe that the players are world class so they expect them to do well in lane international. This is untrue; pretty much all the owners did average or were losing to the opponents. > > The players should let the coaches know and not let their ego stop them. You don’t always have win lane. > > TSMs strategy works in their region because they top the list for nearly every role. Internationally, that’s far from true I think this true, but there is a lot of weakness is warding and macro control of overall game strategy that I do see that directly relates to the coaches. Mentality going into these games is weak too. I'd rather them say "These teams are strong members of their region, but we are too. We will simply play our game and play to our strengths." What are their strengths? They are solid in all of their lanes. They play extremely well 5v5. What are their weaknesses? Warding. Map Pressure. Reading the Meta. Team Composition. Adaptability. Those are serious weaknesses. Most of them though come from 2 things. Coaches should be drilling into them what the difference between a power top lane and a tank top lane is, and how to play around it. What ADC's push better earlier compared to each other. They played against Xayah, where was the Sivir or the Caitlyn? Doublelift can play both, both provide amazing early game minion clear, work well with Ardent Sensor, have a decent escapes, and has great damage late game. Sivir/Caitlyn ADC would be amazing with this meta. Plus, Sivir can block Xayah roots and Caitlyn can E out of them. Why was this not even thought about by any teams? Do people think Sivir is bad? Shes got a lower range than most, but thats made up by her blade bounce hitting champs in the back providing a way to get through front lanes and provide wave clear. Plus she has a great way to engage a teamfight with her team speed up. Why not Taliyah? Wall keeps Xayah from backing out with her ult with her ult, provides ways to split teams from objectives. They could have pulled out these picks and worked out ways to engage them toe to toe. They instead picked weaker early game champs for later stronger champs, but games aren't going 35/40 games. Improvise. Adapt. Overcome. I think they need a military strategist with experience in League. That would make things interesting IMO.
: TSM - A problem with the Coaching or the Players?
But who is they? Is this the players or the coaches/analysts? - Do they copy LCK? Or do they copy their picks? Playing to their strengths has nothing to do with players, but a lot to do with coaching. - Mentality in a game is 90% of a game. Passive or Aggressive thinking is brought on by learning WHEN to be passive or aggressive. That can be on both Coaching and Players, but that should be decided LONG before champ select is completed, and they had already setting for a losing early but harder scaling bot lane. You CANNOT PICK A JAYCE FOR THAT COMP AND EXPECT TO WIN. - If you your talking about the organization as a whole. I agree completely. The players? I think the players take this shit very seriously. Just ask them about their work schedule. If you don't think thats dedication..... The problem is not theiir work ethic. What do they do WITH That time? THATS where coaching/staff come into play. That's where I feel the organization fails.
Rioter Comments
Womp123 (NA)
: Time for TSM to Shake up Their Roster
at the end of the day, the culture and strategy of a team comes down to the Coach. It doesn't come down to the players. They execute the plan, if you want to blame someone for them following a losing strategy. No where to go but Parth. When you lose a game the first 10 minutes of the game, thats down to champ select and strategy. No matter of mechanics can counter a superior strategy and solid execution. You can't outplay the fact that their lane outpushes you, and they warded to protect that lane and roam to protect that push so that its guaranteed a first tower kill, which leads to a massive gold lead for the enemy team for such an early portion of the map. It gives them freedom to ward deeper, and see plays farther out, and suffocate your vision while pushing another lane with that vision. League is a team game and a game of knowledge. NTM, top lane is much easier to gank from blue side compared to red side. It just pisses me off that TSM's analysts and coaches led their players to believe that this was their best strategy going forward. Its extremely frustrating.
: TSM is a WASTE of a seed to go to worlds.
TSM's problem isn't the players for the most part. Its the coaching. They give them these shit strategies they want them to follow for their early/mid games. Its disgusting. Every year they do the same thing for worlds. They don't Adapt, they don't adjust, they play scared, they don't pick correct champions, they screw up their champion selects, they screw up their warding. Not once, not twice, not even three times, but at least 5. They have been to 7 of them. TSM needs to step the FUCK up if they actually want to win worlds. The organization. They need better coaches, better analysts. Yes mechanics make a difference. Bjergsen and Doublelift played one year in the Finals for the 1v1 tournament. They have great mechanical skill. Game knowledge is there, but your game knowledge comes from coaches AS MUCH AS PLAYING OR MORE. Its like watching a professional NFL team play against another NFL team, with high school coaches.
Womp123 (NA)
: Time for TSM to Shake up Their Roster
I dont see the players being the problem. At all. You have had the same Coach for years, and every worlds event, they pick horrifingly bad team comps. Their team is underprepared, and nervous. They play sheltered and Unsure of themselves. Its the coaching. Just like in sports, Coaches determine the plays. They determine it by watching video and film and analyzing it. They then determine things like "ward placement". "Gank times". "Champions to play". "Champion Select Strategies". Then they coach their teams up on what they are expected to do. Then they are expected to talk to each other during the game, look for mistakes or weaknesses of the enemy. Have strategies for their exploitation. The first 5 to 10 minutes of a game, you should know what your strategy is, based on your composition, their composition, and video that you have watched of these teams. Longzhu has a goddamn Breakdown video BREAKING DOWN HOW {{champion:126}} VS {{champion:31}} WORKS. They literally did ZERO things from that video. They didn't even TRY. It was literally a clinic on "this is how to break Chogath." If over 3 years, with multiple junglers, and multiple players. You achieve the same results. And you have the same Coaching staff. What does that tell you?
: TSM would do so much better if they played to their strengths instead of copying LCK
TSM's coaching staff determined, picking the same champions over and over again against the same teams would somehow "work out". The "fast push strategy" that won most games week 2, was completely and utterly absent from ANY games on TSM's side. Other teams saw an exploit and used it, TSM did nothing. _**Strategies were attempted by the coaching staff, with no understanding of WHY this pick works, and it didn't work here. **_ When you only win because an ADC makes a bad positioning call, after a 40 minute tie, that you can't break. You are never going to win worlds. They needed to see what was the meta, hard pushing lanes with strong gankers and a tank top, and PLAY THE GAME. They needed to push towers, gain advantages, rotate, ward, punish mistakes. It literally looked like the plan for TSM was "well lets just wait and see what they do and we can react". Well, that route got Sven killed several times. That route got Bjergsen getting flamed for being passive. THEY WERE TOLD TO PLAY THIS WAY. BY THEIR COACHES. THEIR COACHES DETERMINED THE STRATEGY AND THE CHAMPION PICKS. IF IT IS NOT BEING DONE THIS WAY, TSM HAS EVEN **BIGGER** ISSUES. Yes, players have their comfort picks, but they need to PLAY them.
Croanin (NA)
: Massive wall of text. I didn't read the whole thing, but TSM historically even in their own region are slow to adapt. With a big meta change due to a patch even in NA they start to falter, until their well established infrastructure of analsis and coaches get them on track and back to dominance. You don't have time for that BS in the Group Stage. Other western teams like FNC and C9 are historically better at adapting, hence why they do better internationally.
> [{quoted}](name=Croanin,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=68M9r0n4,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-10-15T22:24:43.296+0000) > > Massive wall of text. I didn't read the whole thing, but TSM historically even in their own region are slow to adapt. With a big meta change due to a patch even in NA they start to falter, until their well established infrastructure of analsis and coaches get them on track and back to dominance. > > You don't have time for that BS in the Group Stage. Other western teams like FNC and C9 are historically better at adapting, hence why they do better internationally. The last game against misfits, the pick/ban phase was so terrible, it was almost like they had given up and were intentionally throwing their last game. Seriously. Major decisions in champion select were just off. They picked a disorganized comp and didn't play to any strengths. They played defensive with a jayce top lane vs chogath, and lane that requires aggression early to snowball the jayce. Coaches literally completely failed them that last game. SKT, saw what EDG were doing, during the group stage, the SAME DAY, and banned the champions and used a similar comp to their first game against them and waited. They played super defensive and played around ward control. They outsmarted their enemy and beat them even with a 10k gold deficit. THAT's what good coaching is. Analysis and understanding allowed them to win.
MysterQ (NA)
: I agree the draft sucked. But Winning 3 NA championships is why they keep losing at worlds. They get paralysis. They have this "perfect" record they want to maintain, so they don't come in boldly to worlds. Instead they come in to not lose, to not embarrass their record. They can win all the NA titles they want, but until they decide winning is more important than looking good, they won't get out of groups. Like literally, go to NA gauntlet. Lose spring and summer. Become the challenger team (even though they clear gauntlet easy). Stop holding up this perfection, it is holding you back. I know when I play ranked, if I am on a streak... I get worse. Because I want to keep the streak. But you need to just play for you, not for some stupid streak or appearances.
> [{quoted}](name=MysterQ,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=68M9r0n4,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-10-15T20:15:41.318+0000) > > I agree the draft sucked. > > But Winning 3 NA championships is why they keep losing at worlds. > They get paralysis. They have this "perfect" record they want to maintain, so they don't come in boldly to worlds. Instead they come in to not lose, to not embarrass their record. They can win all the NA titles they want, but until they decide winning is more important than looking good, they won't get out of groups. > > Like literally, go to NA gauntlet. Lose spring and summer. Become the challenger team (even though they clear gauntlet easy). Stop holding up this perfection, it is holding you back. > I know when I play ranked, if I am on a streak... I get worse. Because I want to keep the streak. But you need to just play for you, not for some stupid streak or appearances. Thanks for your reply. I agree, that is a consistent issue for them. The paralysis you speak of shouldn't happen though. That is a coaching issue. Mentality has always been an issue. That's brought on by your culture. BTW, I'm a Browns fan, so I know a little about organizations that struggle with greatness.
Rioter Comments
: "Camille's not broken look at her winrate"
So When I look at Camille, the problem isn't that she's broken, its that she does wayyyyyyy too much. Double Dash on e, check, attack reset on q, check, second q does true damage, w does a 90% slow, and heals her, and deals percentage HP damage when hit on the outside of its range, R locks a champion down for 4 seconds in an unescapable ring and she does bonus magic damage against that champion. There is so much damage in this kit, she just builds tanky and still deletes adc's. Her skills are tough to land though, and if she falls behind (which is freaking rare due to her super strong early game) she can just play super safe and use her e's for escapes. The range on it is just too damn long. I've done some siiiick e escapes on her already. Just, food for thought.
: Thank You
you got any special gifts for people who have been here since open/closed beta?
Hamßone (NA)
: For reals, we found another couple that plays and we do double dates after the kids go to bed. Other nights we have guys night and drink hazardous amount of Mt. Dew and try crazy jungle ideas, etc.
Wish I could find a woman like that!
: What’s your story?
I started playing league during the open beta. It has been an obsession and a love since since. I will say that I have spent a lot of time playing league of legends. It is by far and large my favorite game to play, and while over the years my skill in the game has largely stayed the same, I still learn something new every game. Over multiple role changes and champion changes, I have learned that this is by far and large, my favorite game of all time. Which is saying something for a serial game player. Thanks Riot for making the game that has become my favorite over the years.
: If you get Mastery Level 7 On a Champion; You Should Unlock an Icon of Their Splash
I would honestly like to see mastery go up to 10, and have skin art at the end of the season for those who achieve it on their champion. Betting that would make things way more interesting.
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SobeDragon

Level 134 (NA)
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