Rioter Comments
: Surrender@20 is so depressing, for every 1 damage nerf another 5 champs get damage buffs
(Deletes half of everyone's hp with any spell) perfectly balanced as all things should be
Bârd (NA)
: About your response to Item RNG
Game's dead to me if they stand by that quote
Moody P (NA)
: Why are modern DPS picks so bursty?
If you calculate DPS based on how long fights last, burst is the only viable DPS...
: I love League, I played it for 10 years. But you make me want to quit.
Yep. Tanks either aren't playable, or are able to kill people in the moments it takes them to die. This is never getting better, what with Riot's design philosophy of catering to manic children who just want to blow everything up.
Glaciace (NA)
: Question about how champion cycling works
As funny as buyselling to deplete the pool would be, that's not the case. I had expected units to return when the player lost, ive heard of another autochess working like it, but not the case as far as i can tell. Otherwise you'd see the popular common units dry up fast (yes) and then hit a resurgence toward the end (no?).
øHaruø (NA)
: Why is this item knock-off a thing?
Knocking all the items upon unit combination would fix this AND the unintended combos, actually.
: Its not that I don't just feel im not playing strategy anymore, I feel actually unhealthy playstyles like inting are now actually encouraged. They actually promote an unhealthy playstyle and are surprised that the communitys toxicity is growing fast. League isn't for experienced gamers anymore, its for entry level gaming.
Back in the day, when one teammate ran around alone trying to oneshot people instead of getting objectives, that could easily cost the game. Nowadays I feel like I'm trolling if I DON'T do that, because odds are someone else is running around casually killing everything in the time it takes to set up anything strategic.
: nautilus can cancel summoning herald himself.
Good chance Mumu can do the same then
: What happened to league?
I think they've concluded that old league wouldn't be profitable anymore due to the BR genre and other things siphoning off people who just want to run around killing everything. So they made Silver Troll Tactics very nearly the optimal way to play in the hopes of milking that audience a bit longer. I don't think there's any long-term plan at this point, just attempts to squeeze more cash out before the game dies.
: I really miss League of Legends
Well put. And this is never getting rolled back, because the devs are too scared of what'll happen if they don't appeal to that manic fantasy. Perhaps rightfully so, now that the BR genre exists and can siphon off players who just want to watch flashy kills. Years ago, you'd see low elo players who would just run around looking for kills instead of doing anything strategic. They'd usually die 1v3, and even if they got the kill a tower or baron would have been better. Going by elo distribution, I would say this was at least a third of the playerbase. Nowadays, that sort of play is very nearly the optimal strategy and if you're not running around oneshotting people, you're gonna lose to the guy who is. The bronze troll tactics became meta to appease those players.
: Can a support CS when the ADC recalls?
It's one of those things where technically taking the cs is optimal, but you have to weigh that benefit against the chance of a mouthbreather freaking out at you for it and playing worse as a result.
: Do you believe that Riot is enfocing a 50% winrate by intentionally matching you with bad teams?
Such a system seems like such a pain in the ass to implement. They can't even do basic team formation right (3 people autofilled into each others main roles), I don't think they're even capable of such a thing, and I doubt they'd bother to make it if they were.
Syrile (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=MankeyMadness,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4AaUf3Os,comment-id=0001000000000001,timestamp=2019-01-27T23:05:53.951+0000) > > Teemos camo requires him to not move or be in brush. > > Now Twitch or Rengar yeah itd be a bit problematic. > Hell look at {{champion:268}} > > _Soldiers expire twice as fast while under turret range._ > Because it wasn't fair for him to WWQaa while you cant attack his soldiers... or him. > Or how Yasuo ults place him outside of turret range unless you're nearly in the middle of the circle. > Even if he has to leave his own Auto range he magically still hits you. It's fun. > Think Riot made Akalis old Ult put her further behind her target so she'd be more likely to draw aggro from minions/Turrets. > > They'll need to put a *lot* of power back to remove the Obscured though. Longer auto range when empowered, lower Q costs (they're removing the heal too.) and R lock out, preferably. Yeah, I was just commenting on Teemo because of the hate he gets. :) There would be an outcry to have it removed even if it was totally worthless (because he has to stand still to start it up and you know where he is).
Teemo Ivern duo to challenger.
: The reason why we hated both damage meta and tank meta.
No? In the tank meta they would need multiple rotations to kill anything, the problem was since they were unkillable and they could stick, they WERE going to get all those rotations off. Even Red Smite didn't give them enough damage to burst the way they do nowadays.
: Yea that's absolutely the case. If you watch (I think it was) the last episode of Beyond the Rift, the one with the design team on it. The designers mentioned how they felt high damage was a necessary component to making the game feel satisfying. And how they were afraid lower damage would scare people from playing the game. This notion blows my mind because not only is the exact opposite more likely to be true, the game was plenty attractive back in season 2-4 when damage numbers weren't like this. I remember there used to be this LeBlanc Video where she One shots GP with full combo out of fog of war and GP laughs like it's the craziest thing he has ever seen. At the time it was crazy, but now pick any AP champion and chances are they will 100-0 you. Some tanks half health you, and most assassin don't even need their whole kit. None of that, is fun to play against. I wonder if those game designers even play their own game.
Exactly. Remember those montages of full AP cheese builds oneshotting, how comical and unusual it was?
Sasogwa (EUW)
: Don't like the amount of damage there is in the game
They know exactly what they're doing, and it's not gonna change. Or to be extremely generous, someone higher up in the chain of command is forcing the balance team to do this because their analytics show that manic flashy games make more money. But there's no way the last year+ has been an accident that they'll suddenly become aware of.
Dr Dog (NA)
: actually unpopular opinion: i hate both URF and ARURF
They should just make it a pve bloodbath where you melt waves of schmucks. People like playing AS the urf buffed champs, but I see little value gained in playing against.
: In the damage meta...
The only real escalation at this point is bursting multiple people and doing it from further away. Too bad riot is doubling down on this.
Roark1 (NA)
: Recently released champions reflects Riot's poor balance choices.
That heal on Sylas confirmed that they have no interest in fixing the oneshot meta. Compared to similar heals and shields on older champs, that thing is MASSIVE, and so clearly because Riot is so committed to high damage that that's their idea of a reasonable bit of defense. And they're probably right, at this point.
Dynikus (NA)
: Played Sylas on pbe. Riot, are you feeling okay?
This really tells me riot has no interest in fixing their game. Look at that heal. Compare that to the heals that were introduced in the past. And it still won't be nearly enough to matter, what with how high damage is. Not to mention the only thing stopping him from ulting 2/3/4/5 times in a teamfight is that they end too fast, so clearly Riot is okay with that too.
Moody P (NA)
: Fighters have strayed too far from their original designs
Accurate. As well, teamfights are so fast now that unless your damage comes out immediately, you might not even have time to use it. Darius full combo (EaWaQaR) for example, even at the fringes that's enough time to get shredded by AoE even if fed. And if you don't get shredded by the time that's finished, odds are someone zoomed past and oneshot enough of your team that you still lose the fight.
: Honestly? 1) Damage is not out of control, and micro/macro play are similar to always. BUT 2) Players are better, and everyone is feeling it. The average CS capture is up to 6/10 from about 4/10. The average hit rate of skill shots is up from about 45% to about 65%. People are just microplaying better. This increases gold, XP, the abuse of level thresholds to seal kills, and consequently..... the damage. BUT ALSO: Most players are not getting rewarded for it. The bitter truth is......the game generally compels a 50% statistic win rate, which is extremely hard to defy, and the 50% Win rate threshold generally falls in Silver. -Short of season rewards. -Smurfed by boosters. -Trolled by unranked placement accounts. -More ways to lose any achievement whatsoever than ever (You can be a rank but not receive the border now) -Harder time earning free content (Good luck farming cheap champs with the way BE works now) -Now there's 12 ranks under Gold instead of 10 (Yes. The new ranks are actually further obstacles to overcome, not less) Most rankers just want one thing...... Those Victorious Skins to be proud of. And, 70-80% never get there. ....... And...... they've been stuck there for 3-6 YEARS..... most of them. And every time they fail to acquire those rewards, they need something to blame. So they begin to pick apart champions, in game objectives, and teamwork. When you've been picking something apart for years because you can't accomplish the goal you want to reach, in lieu of spending less time with your families, more time pulling up average, and the game becomes faster due to skill increases..... Is it any wonder people are constantly trying to undercut the game and getting increasingly distressed?
Never thought id say this, but maybe look someone up before replying? I hit plat/diam many years in a row before I quit ranked. And a not particularly bright bonobo could do this. Ranked being too hard has never been the problem. People HAVE gotten better, look at the boards now vs the old forums 5 years ago, used to be full of people who didn't understand basic concepts. That said, a fair bit of this is the game becoming more forgiving because some less intuitive tasks became less important (jungle pathing, vision wars other than botlane, CD tracking, counterjungling, notice these never get mentioned?) All that said, the baseline play level improving a bit has very little to do with most of the concerns people have about the game.
Rioter Comments
: Are u seroiusly making Neeko's LAUNCH skin legacy?
Problem? She already has hundreds of skins
Moon Mom (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=AUJ6d1RL,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-15T17:26:32.128+0000) > > Indeed. > > It means I must deal with a support playing Katarina with Relic Shield who isn't even trying to pop charges, constantly going into bad fights and pinging me to follow up against their Leona/Jhin under their turret. Beautiful hyperbole tbh.
> [{quoted}](name=Moon Mom,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=AUJ6d1RL,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-12-15T22:15:06.152+0000) > > Beautiful hyperbole tbh. Everyone's got one wild story my dude. Mine is a support Blitz that sat in fountain and demanded exclusive access to the wolf camp in exchange for playing.
: Autofill? More Like Auto Fail
I would get so much shit for this if i submitted it as a compsci project, but billion-dollar company doesnt need oversight or responsibility i guess
: I feel like you're underestimating the versatility of game engines. I mean, look at the Unreal engine. It's been used, quite successfully I might add, to make everything from 2-d fighters to rts to shooters to action adventure games to RPGs(both Western and Japanese style.
Done by developing some set of game mechanics with Unreal tech, functionally a unique engine at that point. You wouldn't try to make a RTS using the 2-d fighter set of mechanics just because RTS was popular. League's equivalent of a blank Unreal project would be... isometry and some of the controls, I suppose. You could get to all sorts of genres from that, and like I've said, if a game was designed from that point to be a team deathmatch with the mechanics built accordingly, I'd respect the decision.
Rioter Comments
Kelly K (NA)
: zed is not meta lol. faker himself has said that zed is bad to play llstylish plays zed but feels he should play another champ to climb because it's way harder to climb with zed.
So we have to grind hundreds of games to reach the top 1% of the playerbase where zeds don't just define every game regardless of meta?
: The most frustrating part of this game is that all the high burst champions ARE SO GOD DAMN SAFE
Thats how its gotta be. Nobody wants to actually put thought into their play, they just wanna grind out 10 games a day. See: NOBODY is gonna keep playing Nekko once her numbers aren't high enough for her to be strong without actually using any of her subterfuge.
: Ah the arrogance of people. So you assume that because YOU like it, it is optimal? And once YOU personally stop liking it it becomes wrong? There are people out there who played Slime Rancher and WANTED it to be a survival game or a Mario kart or whatever. There is no 'optimal'. There is only 'appealing to an audience'. If there was 'optimal', then everyone would like the same games. Name one game that EVERYONE likes. I bet you can't... and even if you think you can, I promise I'll find you someone who doesn't like it. Because game design isn't just some grand spreadsheet that you can check all the boxes and everyone's happy.
The hell? I'm talking about execution. The game's engine should be in at least the same genre as the game itself. If a mario kart minigame was rigged up using Sion's ult that would be funny, but nobody thinks you'd get a properly functional mario kart like that. Same with slime rancher, the engine fundamentally didn't accomodate those modes. They were fun, but if I was going to seriously play either genre I would just play that genre. If Riot would commit and change the game's engine to fit with this manic oneshot game direction, I'd respect that. As is, league is just turning into a worse version of all the other team deathmatch games.
: It's interesting... this perspective that there's somehow a 'right' direction for LoL to go. It has millions of players. Some of those players will like the higher damage, some will hate it... but there's it's not 'wrong' for it to push towards higher damage. *I* personally am not hugely fond of how high damage has gotten, but that's a personal thing. They've had low damage metas, now they're trying high damage metas... but that's fine. We'll see how things go down the line.
As long as they have the current game engine, you can safely make broad statements about the optimal game to be expressed by that engine. And league's engine really is not a twitchy reaction team-deathmatch engine. If I wanted to play a game like that, I'd play one that had been built with that genre in mind. Riot should either have the game play to the engine's strengths (which it did an okay job at years ago imo) or seriously commit and just make a new engine optimized for this manic burstfest. A great example of this is Slime Rancher. Chill game with an engine optimized for dicking around with a hoverpack, then expansions come along with modes that want to be a survival game, and mario kart, respectively. In the same engine. Neat as a gimmick, but there's no fathomable world where they could be worth playing compared to actual games in those genres.
Stacona (NA)
: The Burst Age for League of Legends Straight Up is NOT fun to play in!
Bad as this is, its just gonna escalate into a meta of bursting multiple people at once, calling it now.
mack9112 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Spacesuit Spiff,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1nZqW9ns,comment-id=00010000000000010000000100000000,timestamp=2018-11-25T23:22:10.279+0000) > > Not proposing a solution, just pointing out that "you should never die once fed" straight up guts certain classes and is impractical in general. That might be the direction Riot wants to take the game anyway, but I'm gonna pretend strategy still exists for as long as i can :p I feel stradegy does exist. As a team behind your goal would to secure your carry the bounty gold to help them scale. I really feel that in a game that can turn to stomps rather easily it is important to have as many comeback mechanics as possible.
When games turn into stomps it's usually because one monkey feeds multiple people, which doesn't trigger the bounty gold as much. All this does is punish the one person who's doing well, as though the dynamics of trying to carry that weren't already unfavorable (a mediocre enemy will eventually learn to just not go near a good player, a bad teammate will just keep dying).
: Brand pressed R...
Ok but serious prediction: damage creep will get to the point that deleting one person becomes trivial, so the obvious escalation will be deleting multiple people. AoE oneshot meta
mack9112 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Spacesuit Spiff,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1nZqW9ns,comment-id=000100000000000100000001,timestamp=2018-11-25T22:12:22.986+0000) > > The point of the game is to kill the nexus, if you NEVER consider plays that can get you killed you're handicapping yourself. The bounty gold trims off a lot of those options, but even so: > -Youre top and the enemy team is setting up to 3-man dive you, and they have rift herald. Calculating the damage on their targeted abilities, you can kill 2 when they tower dive, suppose the remaining one has to retreat. Alternative is you back and they take both your turrets + the gold reward from turret plating. > -More common situation, you're a diver champ (back when those existed) vs a fed burst mage ie Annie or Syndra. You can consistently win teamfights by jumping in and killing the adc, then forcing the burst mage's ult in self-defense. No realistic way of getting out at that point, but it might win the teamfight 1 for 5. > > MOST of the time dying is unnecessary, I don't want to feed the helpless mindset of schmucks, but people who become useless for trying to preserve their score are naive in their own way. Ok so what comeback mechanic do you propose then ? If you are someone so far behind and you get a 1k bounty off killing someone who is Uber fed that gives you some identity in the game. One of the points to these bountys is to make the ahead team have to think about plays instead of just mindlessly fighting because you are ahead. These changes are healthy to keep games close I can feel it in game.
Not proposing a solution, just pointing out that "you should never die once fed" straight up guts certain classes and is impractical in general. That might be the direction Riot wants to take the game anyway, but I'm gonna pretend strategy still exists for as long as i can :p
mack9112 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Spacesuit Spiff,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1nZqW9ns,comment-id=0001000000000001,timestamp=2018-11-25T10:07:46.446+0000) > > Because your team picked a bad fight that you had to salvage by killing 4 people and then dying? Or you're trying to help the team and 3 fed burst enemies are all gunning for you? Lots of ways it could happen if the game is lopsided. You should never do something that would get you killed especially if you have a bounty that has been 101 for all of league sure if your team threw a fight you can go in kill 2 and get out or something that wont get you killed . I have played many games with 0 deaths simply because i know how far I can push my champ and what the champs around me can do to me . I know things happen and you can die but if you give up a bounty it is going to be your fault for not being aware of the situation.
The point of the game is to kill the nexus, if you NEVER consider plays that can get you killed you're handicapping yourself. The bounty gold trims off a lot of those options, but even so: -Youre top and the enemy team is setting up to 3-man dive you, and they have rift herald. Calculating the damage on their targeted abilities, you can kill 2 when they tower dive, suppose the remaining one has to retreat. Alternative is you back and they take both your turrets + the gold reward from turret plating. -More common situation, you're a diver champ (back when those existed) vs a fed burst mage ie Annie or Syndra. You can consistently win teamfights by jumping in and killing the adc, then forcing the burst mage's ult in self-defense. No realistic way of getting out at that point, but it might win the teamfight 1 for 5. MOST of the time dying is unnecessary, I don't want to feed the helpless mindset of schmucks, but people who become useless for trying to preserve their score are naive in their own way.
mack9112 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=hi ìm groot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1nZqW9ns,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-11-25T03:46:35.936+0000) > > Unless you're that one guy popping off, and every time you die you give 1k gold to enemies already feeding off your allies. Making the game even more difficult to carry. I mean if you are that far ahead with that much bounty why are you dieing
Because your team picked a bad fight that you had to salvage by killing 4 people and then dying? Or you're trying to help the team and 3 fed burst enemies are all gunning for you? Lots of ways it could happen if the game is lopsided.
ozzirp (NA)
: Can Fervor Of Battle Be Brought Back?
Tbf if fervor came back theyd turn it into frontloaded burst somehow
: But you were able to get those through runes before. Armor and magic resist are new to Runes Reforged. Additionally, everyone is forced to take at least one defensive rune shard.
Tanks get 2 defensive and one offensive. Others get 2 offensive and 1 defensive. Seeems like a wash? Even worse. Offensive stats scale multiplicatively, but since the HP rune is useless the defensive stats we get are resists which actually give less incremental value the more you have. Taken as a whole, its a stealth nerf to tank items.
: I don't understand the thought process that lead to these changes.
I'm resigned to the fact that we're never getting league back. Uninstall for a while, a 1v1 or PvE game will seem like a great breath of fresh air.
: Please define what “strategic and fair” is to you. Champions that I feel are unfair and remove strategy and thinking from the game are champs like Jax, Yi, and Tryndamere who have nothing interesting or interactive in their kits and win by stat checking you over and over again. But they’ve been around since season 1. I know that the favorite complaint of the boards this year has been “too much damage”, which apparently takes away strategy from the game. But I don’t think that damage is substantially higher than it’s been at other parts of the game’s history. The only times I can think of where damage was thought to be low was the Ardent censor meta and the tank meta, metas that people hated for being boring and, well, unstrategic. So what exactly do you mean by putting “strategy” in the game, and how would you do it?
Strategy and tactics. The simple champs have to be strategic to leverage their power; the complex ones just do whatever they want regardless of what's going on. If you've got the tools to always outplay, there's no question of whether you CAN, or how to get to a point where you can
: The fact this forum is spammed about this makes me want to puke. Why do people care one way or another, this isn't a story driven game and it has 0 effect on gameplay. Unless you read lore, who honestly cares? Like, would be nice if this game actually had some form of story telling with it's characters but it doesn't so personality of champs barely matter other than listening to them talk once and a while,
The way politics is right now, you've got a certain demographic trying to turn every damn thing into a culture war, just as a cheap distraction from how outdated their stances are becoming. Then other people drink the koolaid and think said scapegoat is an apocalyptic threat. The fact that people are gonna show up to push back against this, and others are gonna watch because the farce is darkly funny, isn't unexpected.
: Neeko is a dumb pander to the LGBT community for money
When there had to be a tweet clarifying that yes, she was gay, because it was ambiguous enough to warrant such, you'd think the "stop shoving sjw propoganda down our throats!" brigade might sit this one out.
Terozu (NA)
: Why do people want to 'discuss' Neekos Sexuality?
Well clearly a character being so obviously gay that it needed to be spelled out for us in a tweet is sjw thought police ruining Freeze Peach and Western Civilization. This is just another manufactured controversy to feed a culture war that has no basis in reality, and to provide a persecution fantasy for neckbeards.
: Neeko's Sexuality Is A Minor Part Of Her Character
Given that this was word-of-god'd in, the outrage is ludicrous. It's just the same tired old complaints we hear every time, appealing only because it feeds the neckbeard "sjw thought police are coming for our freeze peach" persecution fantasy.
: Neeko is a lesbian: Let's please calmly discuss it.
I would not have confidently guessed she was gay from just the released content, sure the vibe was there but other interpretations could fit. It was only connfirmed by word-of-god. Isn't that exactly what people claim to want when they talk about it being shoved in their faces? Isn't that the opposite of her sexuality being portrayed at the cost of other characterization? I really don't see how this character could be portrayed without starting this shitstorm, if facts don't matter. Really just sounds like the same tired old complaints, recycled from Tracer et al. If only there was a meme to describe reactionaries behaving in a manner similar to NPCs... That's not to say her design can't be criticized, but try to do so within reason. A character can't be everything and also can't be nothing, which is an unfair standard I often see applied to characters whose roles create very polaized expectations from the community.
im small (EUW)
: Why do people think Neeko being a lesbian is an issue?
When the character gets announced with a trailer, a shitton of voice lines, and some lore, the fact that people need to cite a tweet to push their reactionary narrative is very telling. This is just some NPC-meme level recycled complaints, exactly what was said about Tracer and whoever else. I genuinely don't know how a character would have to be portrayed to not piss off the "sjw thought police are coming for our freeze peach!" crowd at this point. Regarding the "reasons for a trait" argument, I've grown to appreciate both approaches. You might as well roll dice to determine characteristics that don't matter to the plot, and assign them based on the setting's demographics. With enough characters there WILL be some convergence of uncommon characteristics; this isn't pandering, it's realism. Now, a character used as a lens to explore a specific characteristic in a setting is also fine, if they have other traits (which might be inferred from seeing the character in action rather than infodumped, which I think a lot of people get hung up on). As an example, the Parahumans universe. Certain characters are LGBT and it has no real impact on the story, aside from demographic realism. Others are depictions of characteristics in that setting: two brothers piloting the same body and one is gay, a trans girl using her power to slowly transition via alternate dimensional bullshittery, etc. Both approaches are interesting content, despite how easy they are to whine about for the sake of whining.
Xonra (NA)
: I don't know how you can go to blind pick after draft. It feels like some sort of space cancer where people are just yelling out stuff. It gives me PTSD from the old ranked champ select except with less trolling.
> [{quoted}](name=CallMeBoomer,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=lBGJPGPg,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-11-16T06:48:08.183+0000) > > I don't know how you can go to blind pick after draft. It feels like some sort of space cancer where people are just yelling out stuff. It gives me PTSD from the old ranked champ select except with less trolling. And then you get a lobby where you genuinely can't figure out where the clows are thinking of going, and when the game starts they all get mad and insist they're all going bot as jax, rumble, etc...
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Spacesuit Spiff

Level 77 (NA)
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