: Ivern is the perfect example of going back to the ROOTS (Pun intended) of league of legends
Exactly. Sadly thats not what people want though. Why pay attention to your enemies when you could just turn them into a fine red mist?
: Negativity towards the State of the Game goes far beyond the boards.
Riot: but the casters are still hyped about everything that happens!
: Runes are boring, viable champion pool is small, no counterplay, game sucks @RIOT
I'm starting to see the value of jumping to a different game every time you get ranked high enough that everyone's using antifun meta strats. Had a great couple weeks in Gwent until i got high enough on the ladder that it's the same 3 decks over and over.
: People say puns are just bad dad jokes.
I thought bad dad jokes were called dad jokes
Bârd (NA)
: If an assassin can't 100-0 somebody, then that is just a useless champion since they would have neither damage or utility. If an assassin can't 100-0 somebody QUICKLY, then that champion will **never** be played as an assassin. See tank {{champion:245}} and bruiser {{champion:105}}. If an assassin can't get in and out quickly, then that champion is a **Diver**, not an assassin. See {{champion:164}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:62}}. If a champion can't clear waves, they aren't a viable mid laner. This is especially true for assassins, who need to shove the waves to roam. For most assassins, being made unable to lane mid via removal of waveclear means the champion is dead. {{champion:238}} {{champion:91}} {{champion:7}} aren't exactly great top laners/junglers. {{champion:555}} is not a fucking assassin. He's a damage/pick oriented support who **looks** like an assassin.
Back in ye good olde days before Burst Per Second, assassins put out respectable damage but could function without needing to oneshot. Catch a MF by herself, you do 60% with your combo and then keep autoing or wait for your Q to come up. She would shoot you in the meantime, but the damage difference meant you would end up winning the fight. Now you either oneshot with the initiation or die to 4 autos.
: What does ''Int'' mean
When anyone on your team does anything whatsoever that you don't like, its inting. When an enemy runs it down mid, you clearly carried because you're the next faker. ...atleast according to how i see it used now
Proxy345 (NA)
: Players from 2013 already knew what the game would be like in 2018.
Have LCS play urf and bloodmoon exclusively, then we might get our game back...
: Yasuo windwall should instantly kill an ulting yi
: Except Yi has enough mass to not be displaced as easily as, say, a hot coal (or whatever it is Annie throws on her autos). Now, if you have an ulting *Quinn* run into it, that would count as a knockup, because it'd be an upward air current to launch her and Valor higher into the air...
> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=PllQoO3k,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-06-18T18:27:21.366+0000) > > Except Yi has enough mass to not be displaced as easily as, say, a hot coal (or whatever it is Annie throws on her autos). > > Now, if you have an ulting *Quinn* run into it, that would count as a knockup, because it'd be an upward air current to launch her and Valor higher into the air... Aurelion Q says hi
: Experiment: Community Patch Notes
Soraka: E damage reduced at low levels, but the silence is instantly applied to enemies entering the circle, and applies to enemies that are untargetable or in stasis, preventing them from queuing up spells. (I'm not a fan of raka as a champion but this has bugged me for years)
Velasan (NA)
: Yeah the issue with situations like this are that really high damage means lack of skill expression. It turns into who pressed their buttons first. Sort of like if Blood Moon was the main and only game mode. No vision and everyone is an assassin insta killing eachother. It's especially bad when your team feeds (or you feed) because damage is so high that it makes hard to risk anything without getting exploded. Add lower vision to that and you can't even see objectives to contest them. The team that is ahead gets all the scrying plants/scuttles. Tank metas may have been frustrating when a Sejuani could sit on you during a team fight, but what's worse; a Sejuani who does low damage trying to keep you out of a team fight or a Sejuani who can't tank anything and yet is being encouraged to build damage who will blow you up instead? At least when tanks are tanky everyone gets to play out their role. They added higher AP scalings to Zac, and Sejuani is getting the same treatment next patch, and AP Malphite is already popular this season.
Accurate. We play this for the pvp, and when you instanuke someone you aren't playing pvp with them anymore, and they're just playing Gray Screen. People want to be able to just jump on someone and blow them up without having to worry about counterplay, because that's a simple way to win... but that's what singleplayer games are for, since they let you do it way more often and without anyone wanting to do the same to you.
: Any relation to spaceman spiff?
The calvin reference, yes. So many versions were taken and that one naut skin is an "empty" spacesuit so here we are
Yenn (NA)
: If your champion can't 100 to 0 someone in 3-4 seconds, it's not viable in top, mid, or jungle
When does the 3-4 seconds start? When you get vision of them from 2 screens away and turn on all your mobility to just run them down and oneshot? I see mages that are unviable because they die during their ability animations, now. When you see a Syndra/Veigar having to run from squishies because they'll get oneshotted in the middle of their combo, something's wrong.
Âquarius (EUW)
: Oneshot Everyone, as Everyone.
I saw an anecdote about how when designing an enemy AI to feel "smart" giving them more health actually helped because they'd have more time to appear smart before they died. Instead this oneshotting just strips away pvp interactions. Food for thought.
: Is something ever going to be done about Relic and Allies?
People have been saying this for years now, idk why riot doesnt think its a problem. Theyre probably concerned about using it to hardpush but really, in what world is that going to matter outside of laning? Even for clearing supers its nothing special.
: Why does Yasuo instantly get compensation buffs and passive rework
They're terrified of the feeding capabilities of yasuo mains. This explains most of the balance decisions regarding popular "edgy" champions.
: Can we talk a bit about Essence Reaver and the fact that its more of a top lane item than an ADC one
: Please stop Training wheels buffs.
A lot of the edgier champs get to keep their training wheel buffs indefinitely, or get more later, because Riot knows they attract players who'd feed their little hearts out if it weren't nigh impossible.
: PSA to teens: Defensive driving is fucking important, so don't treat it like a joke
Accurate. It's not a matter of doing what you're obligated to do, its a matter of making sure that whatever some dipshit does to cause an accident, you can avoid it. I get that the league community tends to be happy to fail as long as there's any sort of excuse, but dealing with that shit is a huge pain even if it ends up not being your fault.
: The game's now balanced around uninteractivity, around inevitability. If Yasuo gets one or two kills, he'll start snowballing extremely hard. If toplane Quinn or a midlane assassin gets one or two kills, they start roaming around the map killing everyone. If a jungler dies early in a duel for scuttle, the game is now a 4v5 and that jungler is basically a walking jungle creep for the enemy team. If a botlane feeds and no leads are made by the feeding botlane's team, the game is over. If midlane feeds any said champion that snowballs hard, the game is over. If someone on a team feeds and has a useless build, the game is over. If your team gets wiped once and you weren't ahead, the game is over. If League of Legends continues down this path, Riot is over.
Accurate. And to be fair, uninteractivity is what people gravitate towards. There's so much going on in the game, and opponents are extremely unpredictable, so it just makes sense to not want them to matter much to your plans. Riot needs to ACTIVELY push back against this trend instead of enabling it. People would rather win than play the game, be it winning in champ select or using a strategy with no meaningful PvP outside of facerolling and bursting everyone because you got ahead as a lane bully. It's regressive and Riot needs to stop enabling it with powercreep and statchecks.
Brija122 (EUNE)
: Jhin & Poppy draw
Toppien (NA)
: im tired and sick of zed
You either go mid and lane against zed, or play a different role and let your midlaner feed a zed. I know its partly bc norms is infested with zed onetricks who get off on stomping people in the mode that's for learning new champs, but there's a reason they gravitate to the guy. He's too hard to punish and too strong against weak players.
: I feel like most of the people that complain about League are actively trying to NOT have fun
I mean that probably applies to a lot of these threads, but there's also just less of the game to play now. Strategic elements have evaporated because once someone starts snowballing, you can outplay them all you want and still get blown up by whatever unavoidable instant burst is currently in this regressive meta. Or rather, real options to outplay in that situation no longer exist. PvP games need tension to be interesting. When a huge portion of time is spent where it's hard to even imagine what the losing side could do to turn things around, there's just no tension. Add the fact that assassins and botlane are in a current state of fully preventing the other from playing the game, and you get a lot of wasted time that's just really difficult to enjoy. Tldr its not impossible to have fun... its just way harder a good amount of the time.
: How do you fight zoe?
Impractical but satisfying solution: pick nasus. Hit lv6. She can't come near you because Wither is a death sentence, and you can apply it while she ults. She can't kill you, and can't really escape long-term if you chase/dive her.
Speedweeb (EUW)
: For once, let's blame Ghostcrawler for something he's actually responsible for!
Very accurate. They need to find more power fantasies that dont revolve around killing everything, or stopping someone from killing anything. Massive damage used to be cool because of how rare it was, people would make videos of cheese builds oneshotting, but now that's just what the game is. A neat solution i saw was the Vodyani in Endless Space 2. Warmonger faction in a 4x game, except they have the option to "take their enemies alive" by wiping out their military and then parking some UFOs on the population centers and slowly vacuuming up enemy civilians. That way the Vodyani get a consistent source of civilians to abduct as long as they keep the UFOs protected, but their opponent isn't just taken out of the game, and has an opportunity to play smart and make a comeback later. League equivalent of this: you get ahead in lane and buy an item with a toggle effect "damage done to champions with current health less than half your current health is reduced by 80%, reduced damage is converted into some sort of scaling for the user". Id explain the impact of this but my phones bugging out, ask and ill get back to it
: I am from the year 2025, these are some of things that has happened to League over the years
Death recap now shows ally ? pings doing 1000 true damage but is otherwise the same
Arzonv (EUW)
: Who tf did this to Pyke!
The assassin support needs cheese
: Riot, thank you for this change to Banner of Command
There was a recent kshway video where singed lost a 1v1 to a bannered cannon minion
Sukishoo (NA)
: They are trying to make a different variety of supports. Not all of them are gonna be Healers, Shielders, Tanks. They wanted something else, and of course to really do that you're gonna start to see a bit of overlap from other styles of gameplay.
> [{quoted}](name=Sukishoo,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ExEkV9Y6,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-05-14T18:06:46.426+0000) > > They are trying to make a different variety of supports. Not all of them are gonna be Healers, Shielders, Tanks. They wanted something else, and of course to really do that you're gonna start to see a bit of overlap from other styles of gameplay. That's gonna be an uphill battle for rito then. I already feel like I'm trolling if I don't play a shieldbot. Alistar, Naut, Leona, etc already have enough trouble keeping adcs from insta-dying, I don't see what this guy is gonna do against Zed or whatever. Time Q perfectly for a decent pull, but unless you can chain the stun with that with NO opening for the assassin to faceroll, the adc is dead. And you just know most players are going to want to be the 4th guy diving the enemy adc instead of peeling. I woulda loved this guy a couple years ago, but he seems like a trollpick now.
: Anyone else very satisfied with autofill?
People don't complain about autofill because they get autofilled. They complain because their teammates do. If you get autofilled you can dodge, but a rando will quietly lock in something they have no idea howto play
: What happened to all the youtube content?
Damage being so high kinda takes the wind out of league humor imo. Used to be people would do some cheese build and make a compilation of oneshots, but now oneshots aren't even something to blink at in the main game. Not to mention the sort of juke trolling SivHD is known for has gotten harder to pull off because you get blown up faster.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: My personal feedback about 8.11
Interesting, but i think people are more concerned about damage in general being out of control rather than which particular adc build crowds out the others.
TS Media (NA)
: Yasuo is NOT a general go to champ
Eh, you can hit that 0/10 powerspike in any matchup and that's really what matters
: What is your opinion on NON-assassin AP champions right now?
The unique stuff mages bring (potentially higher area of impact, delayed AoE for kiting, etc) doesn't mean much with how manic the game is right now.
: The New Essence Reaver- We Should Probably Look At This
Very neat, the direction of the game makes me worried that people building this are just gonna melt before they can even get their second rotation off, even with the reduced CD
: Before you shitpost about 8.10 PBE Marksman Update
Good use of dividers. If your whole point is that the PBE stuff is subject to change, what's the problem with us discussing the current version? Doing so just increases the chance riot actually fixes it. Sure you could tone police but a) extreme stances can actually help establish the starting assumptions of the conversation, and b) threads you'd approve of on this topic probably wouldn't get upvoted as much.
HotHasan (EUW)
: Bring a min 10 surrender out
Game might as well just auto-surrender in the lobby based on which team got boned by matchmaking. That wouldn't be a massively different way to award lp
: Am I the only AP main that is jealous of the new Essence reaver?
ADCs are ascending to this weird new design philosophy. Mages still have one foot planted in DOTA logic
PB4UAME (NA)
: I just don't think ranged damage threats should ever- EVER be the largest, or only damage threat on a team. They invalidate any non-overtuned melee just by design when that's the case. Why pick a melee damage dealer who has to struggle against basically 50-75% more of the game than a ranged champion even has to worry about, if the ranged champion also does more damage anyway?
Honestly, i think part of the reason ranged squishies are mandatory is so assassins and divers have someone to go after. If the team's damage threat is a Darius or Fiora or similar, they would just kill anyone who wasted half their power budget on even reaching them.
InTheory (EUW)
: I asked you - you answered. Stuff about marksmen
Pretty accurate. I think they should have to find high moments of being able to go wild with dps with impunity, instead of just presuming they get to do that every fight. Hard to balance them across play levels though. In low elo a team is one adc and 4 people who just want to dive the other adc. Burst per second starts to make sense since that's the only way a lone adc can possibly protect themselves. But if you've got a support, well, bps is just disgusting. Makes me wish adcs were less mandatory so riot didnt have to pander to the ones who play it despite having no team to stand behind.
Rexxiee (NA)
: The arms race between assassins and supports needs to stop
Yup. I remember back when i had to decide whether to get AS or AD on reksei for optimal diving. Now neither option would get through the shields and lifesteal, because im not playing some manic assassin.
Elohaven (NA)
: ADC mains want ADCs nerfed just so...
Boards for years: "theres no such thing as an adc meta because the meta is whatever can deal with adcs" Rito: "hold my beer"
: Well, the worst offending champs were mainly permabanned until they got nerfed/reworked, though usually there was a few that'd slip through the ban nets due to the more limited number of bans. As is now though, from what I've seen, many of the offenders people have a problem with tend not to get banned, for some strange reason. Which is part of the reason things feel worse, the offenders are less likely to be banned than before. Kassadin for example, had a 99% banrate at one point. Kaisa, who many would argue is the worst offender in terms of marksmen, has a surprisingly low banrate for how high her winrate is. Janna and Lulu, the common example of supports that people don't like playing against, are also not often banned. Which is one of the major reasons I would say people feel that the meta is bad. People aren't banning commonly played champions that they don't like playing against. Marksmen in general have low ban rates, as do supports.
You can't ban out burst per second as a concept, and banning out enchanters isn't feasible solo, or a good use of bans. "When everyone's banworthy, no one will be". Only referring to the current botlane options obviously. Besides, your team can abuse the meta too, so it just makes more sense to use bans for SEVERE individual outliers, even if a whole class is sucking the fun from the game.
: People seem to have forgotten how utterly toxic the game used to be
Eh I've played through nearly all of that, and it was always possible to ban out the worst offenders and have fun. Now the whole meta is a disgusting situation, rather than just some outliers.
: @Riot Sotere I've been a Jungle main 8 years, your changes are the worst idea I have ever seen.
I recall this being what they wanted when they first introduced scuttle, but nobody was interested and they let it go. I basically expect that aside from pros, nobodys gonna bother fighting over scuttle because as a jungler, your team already has more than enough chances to screw you. Most likely it'll just be the stronger jungler taking it uncontested, or it just being totally ignored while people gank bot at lv2
: It's been said before but this is never happening. Part of the draw that Riot always wanted (and by extent, every other game on the planet) is that the path to pro is just that: A path. Making LCS and normal pugs play different cannot function. It destroys the notion. Bear in mind this is not like having a different rule set ala baseball in your uncle's cookout and baseball at the MLB. This is "The bats and ball weigh different and the outfield is more slippery". More importantly, it would also screw with your own perception of skill: Maybe you grind and grind with Lee Sin all the way to gold. Then as soon as you get to gold "Hey welcome btw lee sin's Q doesn't work on monsters anymore have fun". What I will say is the game should lean more toward one side or the other, as 50/50 balancing isn't working. (Although I'm in the boards minority and think the game should solely balance around the High Diamond-to-Pro area of ELO.)
Its ALREADY a totally different game if you're playing with a team. They could split 5s and non 5s without disrupting too much.
: you tripping if you think riots gonna fix adcs and not super buff them
-3 ad Next patch: +3 ad and can crit towers
: One week suspension because of my name
Tbh id expect the boards to be more offended by the ADC part
: I feel a huge mistake a lot of players make is that they retreat right after their opponent chunked them with an ability in lane. If that champion just used their abilities to damage you, that means their abilities are on cooldown, and they are effectively silenced for the duration, which puts you at _less_ of an disadvantage than if you were to attack them when their cooldowns are back up. As such, a lot of players end up falling into this loop where they get chunked, retreat and hide, and only emerge to play aggressively again at a point where their opponent's abilities are back up, whereupon they get chunked once more and quickly lose. This is especially visible when playing against assassins, where a lot of players run away _after_ being bursted, rather than before. I don't think LeBlanc's laning phase is perfectly healthy either, as it's gone back to her pre-rework pattern that was notoriously unpopular to play against, but I feel that unpopularity can already be addressed to some degree by a quick player change in trading patterns.
Makes sense on paper but they just sit back a little and the minions/jungler mean trying to force in that window isn't a great move. Also, if you're a midlaner, you would've thrown all your stuff when she traded, so you're on cooldown too unless your cooldowns are A LOT lower than hers so you can walk up, throw stuff, and walk away before LB is online for round 2
: Ok, seriously, I am tired of this, can you gut Janna until you find a way to fix her?
Give her the raka treatment. Shield value gutted unless she landed a Q recently.
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