Iloonio (EUNE)
: Any changes for Swain in the works?
King Cobra mentioned he's looking into making Swain's soul frags perma increase damage
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 14
Hey Meddler could I ask if you have Update on the Kayle changes August is looking into and what you feel is Qiyana's main weakness
d00mface (EUW)
: If you could take one object from the world of Runeterra to have what would you take?
: Cougar or human?
: It’s the time stone duh
Now the image of Thanos ripping it out of her head like Vision is in my mind
: Would he still get a shield from E1 or is it all moved to E2? Personally I think it would be better for e1 to still give a small shield so E1 feels decent to use
Poked Squad5 and he mentioned all of the shield is moved to E2, E1 would essentially just be a short range dash that triggers passive
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 24
Also have you changed posting patterns since I noticed it went down to 1 post a week and deviated from the usual Wednesday and Friday posts
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 24
Also do you have any opinions on Sylas, since Squad5 mentioned you guys have some changes planned
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 24
Hey Meddler do you have any further context on the Janna changes
: Does Yuumi's release increase the chances of riot giving Omen another try?
I don't think so, a lot of Omen's aesthetic went into Rek'Sai and the gameplay went to GP and MF
Meddler (NA)
: Wukong Prototype on PBE: Additional changes
Hey Meddler could I ask if you plan on changing the way Wukong dashes with E now that the other images can be targeted, in order to really confuse players as to who he is dashing to since I believe on live it always spawns one to the left and right of him
: What does it take to become a Narrative Writer at Riot?
I remember from the job listing a few months ago, from Riot for a narrative writer, that a minimum of 4 years of work as a writer or similar experience in a games industry related creative role be required to work at Riot.
: League's Evolution into an Abstract Anomaly
This brings me back, good old nostalgia. I can't remember if this was played in draft or on dominion but it gave me the chills either way
BenJe (NA)
: Professor Graves Splash Art
I believe it's a bug Riot is aware of
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 17
Also do you have an update as to when we should see some the item shop work Scruffy announced
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 17
Hey Meddler, Zhanos mentioned he was going to revert most of the Diana changes, are you guys going to look into larger scope work for her then Also did you see TL vs IG
: Small Diana Gameplay changes coming to PBE
Is the AA reset on ult still there from your last round of changes
Meddler (NA)
: Prototype Wukong Changes on PBE Context
Excited to test these changes Meddler, could I ask if you want Wukong to be more assassin-y or bruiser with these changes
Rodsquad (EUW)
: What colorstory is your favorite?
Leaving Weh'le by Michael McCarthy
: By your definitions then champions like Cho'Gath and Kog'Maw can also be considered humanoid, no? It feels like the goalposts have moved here, especially since the 2017 chart which was the first major statement of "monsters aren't resonant" included Hecarim among the eight champions they counted as monsters. How come the classification has changed but the argument has been left untouched? ------------ Rammus seems to consistently be a roughly middle-of -the pack jungler despite seldom being touched, and when people who aren't avid league players think about the game he's probably one of the most iconic champions around. On release he seemed to be getting plenty of content dedicated to him, too. Was he popular/resonant then and has since ceased to be? (If that is the case, it suggests that rather than monsters not being resonant there is a separate issue) If we continue to constrict the definition of monsters to exclude those who don't support the notion that they aren't resonant we're left with such a small group that there is little point in making generalizing statements about them. It becomes essentially "champions whose kits aren't good and who aren't well characterized aren't popular" instead of "monster champions aren't popular." This isn't just something I've seen here but in every conversation on this subject I've had. ---------- I feel your argument here is working with a strangely constricted idea of what a monster is. What is "full monster?" Is it being a complete animal? Because Aurelion Sol has a far more human personality than Hecarim or Kha'Zix yet is near-unanimously seen as a monster champion (because he supports the notion that they are unpopular?) At what point is a design too far removed from the human form to be considered humanoid (thus apparently removing the thematic resonance they had?) Must a monster crawl along the ground? ------- I agree with you that the overall theme of a champion is important. And I believe that is where the majority of monster champions fall incredibly short. It's likely in part because of how dated they are. (I also think Yasuo is a good champion who has a well earned place in the game but don't tell the boards I told you) A champion is a complete package and the way I often judge them is as just that, a whole. A great kit can be ruined by poor writing and an uninspired design. Like making yasuo's kit a lizard for some reason. The best champions sell a fantasy and Riot has been absolutely killing it in that field lately (Aatrox now that his kit woes are being addressed just feels so... amazing to play. I get into the moment. Same with Sylas and his ult making me feel clever and adaptable.) The problem is that there is no fantasy being sold with most of the monster champions who have been left to rot (either it's implemented in a way that restricts gameplay like Kog'Maw or there is dissonance between what the champion promises and what they deliver when being played like A. Sol). It feels dishonest to say that monsters on the whole are unpopular when those that are are suddenly no longer considered monsters and the rest have been left in an abysmal state for a number of other reasons. Skarner, for example, has so much to offer as the misunderstood but compassionate monster. Like Frankenstein's monster he is hideous and terrifying but also surprisingly intelligent and emotional. He's been thrust into a world vulnerable and confused, only to be abused and feared by humanity who he seeks to understand. His kit doesn't communicate the fantasy of being a misunderstood creature. Nor does his VO. His relationship with hextech gemstones and his human-like mind mean he could be a fantastic and compelling character with gameplay to match. Sell the confusion, the fear, the anger at the injustices he faces. Make his fighting seem almost reluctant. (semi-detailed example because I've been mentally cooking up a skarner post recently) Instead what we have is big superpredator who chases people down. He doesn't sell a fantasy other than "this champion comes in the shape of a scorpion." Of course it wouldn't be resonant, but that's not based on the fact he's a monster it's based on the fact he is poorly executed. Like Yasuo's kit, lore, personality, and design sell the betrayed but skilled drifter seeking vengeance and redemption, monsters need an identity other than being a monster. If a human champion was released whose identity was that they are just a person, and their kit was also designed to communicate that they were just a person, it too would be a failure. Monsters offer things that most human champions can not. Much like how a human character is often defined by the weapon they use and how it reflects them as a person, monsters use their own strange physiology as weapons. When I'm fed on Cho'Gath and I'm lumbering towards the enemy team who are scrambling to find an answer to my presence or arrange themselves in a way that keeps them safe, I'm in the moment. I feel powerful when I hit the demolish proc for nearly 2000 damage on a turret lategame. I'm the giant monster whose inexorable advance they must work together to halt. The problem is that those moments are rare and usually I feel like a big piece of meat that the enemy team is smacking around. We remember monsters, sometimes more than any other character in their stories. They are reflections of humanity in a twisted mirror. I think if they were approached with anywhere near the same standards of quality that we see human champions (including the high standards of skill expression rather than trying to keep all of them simple and noob-friendly), we would see that resonance isn't the issue and overall design+lack of content have been.
I agree, I think that’s incredibly unfortunate most monstrous champs come from a time when champs have marginally less depth in any of the 3 pillars of gameplay, lore and visuals. I don’t think anything short of a VGU, due to all the hype thats built around them and promotional stuff, can get players interested in Leagues monsterous champs due to all the baggage associated with them.
Arakadia (NA)
: Perhaps I am being too optimistic that monster designs can resonate with people and have likeable themes.
I don't think you're wrong to think that, there's a time and a place for monsters like every other thematic out there. There are people who really like them, some real die hard mains for like ASol, but I don't think monsters will ever truly have a broad appeal, but that doesn't mean Riot or any other company should stop making them
: The near-ubiquitousness of certain monster monster champions in league matches when they're actually viable doesn't support that claim. When Kha'Zix was strong he was everywhere, hecarim creeps his way back into the meta and is super common every time he's powerful enough to compete. Rek'Sai comes in and out of the high elo scene based on how playable she is. (but all three often get excised from the meta for long periods of time and don't have the tools to compete with the increasingly mobile cast of human champions) Humans/Humanoids aren't dealing with the baggage monsters have. Take Lux or Ezreal, who are ALWAYS playable and sometimes extremely strong. They aren't abandoned to be weak for long peroids of time. It's a safe investment to fall in love with those champions because you know you won't be abandoned. You'll have places to spend your money, no shortage of content to be passionate about. If you love skarner I hope you like Guardian of the Sands and maybe one month of viability every two years. The damage has largely been done, but the monsters not being compelling has been a self-fulfilling prophecy. They would be less successful because everybody who loves those champions would enjoy the skin but dread the knowledge that what would follow would be a years-long dry spell of content. Monsters have so much room to be made compelling. The movies manage to do it. Stories manage to do it. Monsters tend to get a bigger following than the humans in their stories. It's not that they are monsters that makes them unpopular. It's that for some reason their kit has to be a gimmick and their lore is either barebones or so generic it understandably doesn't catch interest.
Well Hecarim and Kha'Zix I would consider as humanoids, Hecarim being a centaur dude and Kha'Zix being bipedal, so I don't think they carry the same amount of baggage Rek'Sai has, someone whom I would consider a true monster. Even when she was really strong, like a few weeks ago, her playrate didn't massively shoot up, maybe in higher elos and pro play but I believe they pick more for power then resonance. I agree that there's potentially a bad feedback loop of players not wanting to invest in low playrate champs because they won't get a ton of content, but what drives Riot to create content is players investing in them (real chicken or the egg stuff). Again I'll agree that it certainly doesn't help that monstrous champs are tacked with niche playstyles like ASol or the representation of their lore in game (VOs) make it hard for people to catch interests like Rek'Sai's screeching. However back to the Hecarim and Kha'Zix points, I feel as though those champs have higher resonance are because they have more humanoid traits that players can identify with, I think it's truly hard to go full monster and really make players care about it. This isn't to say that all humans/humanoids are auto popular because they're humans, we have some real niche ones like Ivern and Zilean, but I think the overall theme of a champ is just as important as gameplay or lore in making a champ popular. For example Yasuo, whom despite the boards complaints about him, I think is a champ Riot knocked out of the park, and he wouldn't have the same immense popularity had he say been a 4 legged lizard but had the same gameplay and some how the same lore. He probably would still be popular but not as imho.
Arakadia (NA)
: I do think however if you gave a monster character the most fun kit and a spectacular legendary they would be much more popular. While it may not be a primary cause there most certainly is connection between the lack of attention from Riot and the popularity of monsters.
Kit maybe, even the shine of a high tier skin wears off after a while, personally I do agree that it doesn't help most of the monstrous champs in League have a pretty niche playstyle i.e ASol and Skarner. But I feel as tho if you do give an incredibly fun to kit to a potentially low resonanting monster, you get stuck with people who really like a kit but hate the theme
Meddler (NA)
: Probably hitting PBE next week as well. Context post tomorrow or early next week.
Are you able to share the scope of the changes, are they as big as Wukong or something like Aatrox and Tahm
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 9
Hey Meddler do you have an update on the Diana stuff as well
: This feels like an issue of what came first, the chicken or the egg? Are monsters unpopular and therefore don't get a lot of frequent spotlight or content, or are they not popular because they don't get a lot of spotlight or content? For me, it's really simple. It's the first. Why? Well, I want you to list me the number of stories, TV shows, Anime, literally any piece of Media you want, where the main leading character is a Monster. I know there's a few, but the few that exist are hugely outnumbered by the amount of Media where we have a human, or humanoid (Dwarf, Elf, human-relatable-looking character). And that's really it, you said it yourself, we empathize and relate most to humanoid characters. Keep down the same train of thought, you see where Monsters are typically left in the spectrum. They're the villains, the mysteries of the world, the surprising ally to the main group whose remarkable for 'overcoming their nature'. Why do you think when Authors want to make monsters more empathizable, we give them more Human-like Traits? When we start to characterize them as people, instead of Monsters, they tend to gain traits akin to a human, concepts like Family, Loyalty, Honor, things that aren't...well, Monstrous. If it makes you feel better, you can believe all you want that the only reason monsters aren't popular is because Riot doesn't give them any spotlight, but you're gonna be hard pressed to find the evidence to back it up. It's really easy to find an appeal in a human character, but it's a lot harder to find the appeal in a monster whose completely benign.
Good thoughts, I completely I agree that its the former of your statement. I’d even argue if you gave a monstrous champ the most fun kit in the world and the most spectacular legendary skin, it would not do as well if you gave the exact same things to a human/humanoid, they wouldn’t even need to be sexy to still do marginally better
: > [{quoted}](name=Spideraxe,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=6q2XNrhR,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-05-07T01:52:48.219+0000) > > It is, I'm not sure you understand the amount of work that goes into working on voice overs Is it really that much work? Seems pretty simple to be honest.
It is, you'll a need a writer to write a script, gameplay designers and engineers to put in new or updated triggers, sound designers to add processing and mix up audio, VO producers to cast a voice actor, the voice actor to record lines and then regional teams to do all of the above for every single language League is played with. Compare that to a VFX artist working on updating particles
: Wow, this is like a thesis. Can't comment on a lot of stuff as "things" are in motion.{{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}} But very cool, and well thought out.
Hey Odin I was wondering if I could ask you if your Zed comic planned on further expanding some of the stuff Michael McCarthy did when working on Kayn and Akali
: Can we get voice updates instead of all these VFX updates?
It is, I'm not sure you understand the amount of work that goes into working on voice overs
SuperYay (NA)
: Which champions do you think look best with their default skin?
Could Odyssey fatigue but I like Kayn's base skin, mainly because I'm not a big of soulhunter
: Known "Gods" in Runeterra?
There are the Freljord gods like Ornn, Anivia and Volibear plus some unnamed ones like Tusked god of Tryndamere's tribe. Illaoi's god Nagakaboros or however it's spelt. I believe Demacia worship Kayle and Morgana as deities to name a few
: Malphite changes coming to PBE
Is his W mana cost unchanged since it wasn't mentioned
Meddler (NA)
: Thank you. I'll be passing the Wukong work on to someone else so they can continue it shortly. Initial player labs have shown promise to it, though would like to do some more with a wider group. Also considering putting it on PBE for a cycle and then taking it off again (isn't currently shippable, and might take a while before it got there, but would give good discussion and potentially validation). TK - cautiously optimistic so far. Need to see how his solo lane health looks and whether we have managed to increase his power in regular games while lessening pro problems before being too confident though.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 3
Hi Meddler welcome back, we missed you. Now that you're back, are you going to be picking up Wukong work again and do you know where Tahm Kench has landed after his big set of changes
: Can someone tell me the IG Skins artist?
Pan Chengwei drew the splash
Terozu (NA)
: Is that the Crystal Scar at the end of Yuumi's trailer?
It is but they confirmed they used its assets for the trailer and only trailer
: Yes it is!
: Early 9.10 Patch Discussion
Is the Zac revert still planned for 9.10
: Can someone tell me at 0:06, who is the fellow sitting in the chair and who is that woman standing with a cup in her hand?
> [{quoted}](name=JhonTeemon,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=EA8rIXqk,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-04-26T10:59:56.397+0000) > > Can someone tell me at 0:06, who is the fellow sitting in the chair and who is that woman standing with a cup in her hand? That's Garen and I believe their aunt
Seba7290 (EUNE)
: What D&D alignment would you say Sylas is?
Chaotic Neutral, slightly leaning towards evil
d00mface (EUW)
: Would you be interested in a Taliyah centric comic?
I'd be down, a pretty underrated champ in the lore imo
Rioter Comments
Reav3 (NA)
: The poll will just be for one of the VGUs in 2020, jsut because a Champion doesnt get chosen in the poll doesnt mean they wont get a VGU in 2020, it just means it won't be guaranteed for 2020. When I said less VGUs I didnt mean like 1 a year, just less then we have been doing
Would you reveal the team working on the polled VGU, because I think knowing which folks could sway opinions
: kayns character splash art question
I personally think it it's hardened flesh, like Rhaast corrupted that side of Kayn so it can't be undone unless Rhaast is banished.
The Iceborn (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Spideraxe,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=HE0vWfRH,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-04-17T13:37:27.193+0000) > > For the last part I'd love to see a dark story with Lissandra making ice zombies based off of that new passive Meddler gave her I can only imagine Lissandra full volatile mode, conjuring all kinds of zombies... Exactly kind of like the new passive! Edit: Actually they should make that her color story, creating these zombies or casting some vile curses.
I'd like to see her turn to perverse magic in order to raise an army if the Frostguard and trolls aren't enough to fight off the Watchers and the Avarosans and Winters Claw
The Iceborn (EUNE)
: My hopes for Lissandra's future lore
For the last part I'd love to see a dark story with Lissandra making ice zombies based off of that new passive Meddler gave her
: I don't think it will be coming before MSI, they won't risk MSI meta for big changes. Probably 9.10
Well other then the fact the designer who is working on the changes said they're shipping in 9.9, 9.8, this patch above, is the MSI patch
d00mface (EUW)
: Me Miserable: Aatrox as a Fallen Angel Archetype
: What happened to the {{champion:53}} changes
Shipping in 9.9
Krabohod (NA)
: Can we have Ornn's update item quotes back?
Just got Squad5 to look into this
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