Spoo (NA)
: So we have ranked TFT, when can we expect ranked ARAM
My main empthasis by calling TFT more random than ARAM. In TFT you can literally lose because insufficient luck. Sure the good players are generally better at coping and making the best of a bad situation, the game is generally too short to recover from seriously bad RNG. The only thing saving it is the fact their are 8 opponents and you only need top 4. I've gone the games going 3 rounds in and being unable to achieve a rank 2, or only receiving defensive options, or ap options for an ad team and vice versa. In ARAM a good comp vs. a bad doesn't guarantee victory and in many cases I've claimed victory from the jaws of defeat just because my team utilized better skill, teamwork, or a player's carry potential on a champion. Sure it lacks the objectives of SR but there is still the notion of when to engage, how and when to push, whether or not a fight will gain you any ground in the long run (and in turn healing relic access), when to sit back and just stall the wave (and let dead members respawn).
: ok first of all they don't even maintain anything outside of summoners rift. the argument is that no one plays it but the reason no one plays alt game modes rank is because they don't update and do anything with them. so let's say a ton of people play ranked aram. who says how it will be balanced? what is the counter balance? will people still play normal aram anymore?
> [{quoted}](name=Cloudinator37,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ftspKjJq,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2019-07-25T03:45:56.935+0000) > > ok first of all they don't even maintain anything outside of summoners rift. the argument is that no one plays it but the reason no one plays alt game modes rank is because they don't update and do anything with them. > > so let's say a ton of people play ranked aram. who says how it will be balanced? what is the counter balance? will people still play normal aram anymore? Just because a system is 'ranked' doesn't mean it has to be a perfect ranking like SR is intended to be. Just some way to seperate those who can play random with more skill from those who play it with less. Sure they're are scum accounts, but anymore the patch balances should bring them more in tow.
Durzaka (NA)
: Can you maintain a 51%+ win rate in ARAM with its RNG? Because people can do that in TFT. Not to mention since TFT is a FFA, the first 4 places get LP, so it mitigates any potential issues with RNG, because you can very realistically get top 4 even with bad RNG.
> [{quoted}](name=Durzaka,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ftspKjJq,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-07-24T17:17:08.069+0000) > > Can you maintain a 51%+ win rate in ARAM with its RNG? > > Because people can do that in TFT. > > Not to mention since TFT is a FFA, the first 4 places get LP, so it mitigates any potential issues with RNG, because you can very realistically get top 4 even with bad RNG. Easily! And without scumming accounts.
: Would size be an issue with the cosplay? I have a very large league of legends cosplay I would love to enter!
{{champion:54}} Rock solid!!!
Pika Fox (NA)
: And you still forget to include summoners and resists. Youd be dealing about 30-40% less damage.
> [{quoted}](name=Lo4ding,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8rfIss6n,comment-id=00160000000000010000000000000000000000020000000100010000,timestamp=2019-07-23T06:35:39.469+0000) > > I dont know if you are blind or something else. > > (Q(241) + E(205) + AA(110) + AA(110) + Aftershock(80 +-)) x **Armor|MR Reduction(0.75)** > > That means magic damage gets reduced and physical gets reduced by same amount. Which is without tank items +- 25% whole game. There is no place to talk about summoner spells. This scenario is: If pyke land his stun and run his whole rotation, does he have kill pressure? Regardless what you think, yes he has. > > Math is right. > > ps. Since Pyke builds lethality items. From 2nd item he deals pretty much true physical damage. On top of that, lethality, cdr, is so cheap (probably efficient too).
JuiceBoxP (EUNE)
: Pyke gets far too much gold from his ultimate now
When,why,how should a support ever be made into a primary carry assassin. Oh, yeah its rito.
Rioter Comments
: She CAN be pretty strong, but she is a tier 4 unit, so I kinda feel like she's supposed to be strong? Also she DOES have a synergy if you have just her, she's a single ninja. I feel like if you're building her up you should be rewarded with a strong unit. She's also pretty squishy. I guess if they HAD to nerf her they could increase her ability cost a bit, as five point strike is very low cost and pretty good damage. But I really don't think she's TOO crazy.
> [{quoted}](name=Solidair3,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=cTQ2eIXn,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-07-19T16:24:24.691+0000) > > She CAN be pretty strong, but she is a tier 4 unit, so I kinda feel like she's supposed to be strong? Also she DOES have a synergy if you have just her, she's a single ninja. > > I feel like if you're building her up you should be rewarded with a strong unit. She's also pretty squishy. I guess if they HAD to nerf her they could increase her ability cost a bit, as five point strike is very low cost and pretty good damage. > > But I really don't think she's TOO crazy. I really hate the single unit synergies in TFT. Really, I'm rewarded because I happened to win the draw lottery once? Not 3x, or 9x (true if you want 3* or typically a trio of 2* required for a decent synergy). On top of that Akali uses her ult almost immediately it feels like. That seems pretty ridiculous.
: Why would you remove my comments???? I didn't curse, I didn't say anything vulgar, nothing!!! All I did was question why you guys are taking a hammer to healing when the healing in-game by champs is so minimal! Yuumi's healing is a joke! Sona, Yuumi, Soraka, there heals all are crap and/or come at a major cost in mana or health. Late game they're better but even late game Yuumi's heals are pretty mediocre. If there's too much healing via lifesteal or items or w/e, deal with that! Also, one of the comments you guys randomly deleted just asked why do the devs seem to hate Akali?? They keep gutting her to death, I never even see her played anymore but yet she keeps getting whacked over the head with nerfs. Nerf Yuumi's Q damage ,Buff her healing, give her more of a break in-between reattaching to allow for more windows of opportunity to get her, and instead of removing the mana from her passive totally just nerf it first! Why do you guys take such massive swings at champs, just nerf the mana dont' remove it completely.
Yuumi's healing is a joke? Are we playing the same game?
: How to make {{champion:555}} Pyke balanced again: 1. Get rid of the idea that Pyke gets an extra "Your Cut" on a successful execute with his ult, let alone 2 for landing it but not executing. It's way too much gold to give him especially since his ult can reset. 2. Allow the E to do reduced damage to minions at least. (IE The only reason Pyke needs {{item:3077}} in solo lane) 3. Give his damage numbers a small nerf across the board, including his ult. The AD Scaling for his ult execution is a little too busted with squishies.
RIP being able to ARAM against a good pyke with so much free gold now.
: nami was squishy enough without this aram nerf
As a person who LOVES Nami in ARAM, she can easily self-heal back to full no problem. Big heal nerf is only on healing allies, not self.
: Is it just me or Soraka in ARAM does no healing anymore? Just played a game and my W did 83 at best at two-three points. Typically it would do around 100 by two points in. Runes and build didn't change. Am I seeing things....?? :^(
She's not supposed to. RITO has realized the unfairness of healbots in ARAM being a single lane. By nerfing healing they force those 'Mogs healer's to actually engage the enemy and take risks. Its the same with Sona, they nerfed her healing into ground to force a more interactive and healthier playstyle. In any case, Soraka's far better throwing in some ap and landing e/q poke anyway.
: It’s unreal how someone took a look at her and went “Her passive is the problem, remove the mana refund for interactive and sometimes risky play!”
Oh no, lets not build regen, force her to use biscuits instead of autoing? The mana regen is probably the most balanced thing they can do without ripping her completely apart. Heck, its the same reason they removed the old Soraka mana regen when they 'reworked' her ever so slightly. Because with it, you never have to leave or sacrifice anything for a constant barrage and with Yuumi's range/damage/slow and cd of her Q a Yuumi isn't really punished by throwing them out constantly and missing. It just ends up making for a neverending siege and easy tower plates. At least now she'll have to think before using them and line them up a bit more with her push. The damage/slow was never her problem its the constant '**neverending**' barrage that's the problem which inevitably only serves to allow her more ap scaling early than she (a long range support capable of signifant healing/damage/sieging/counterengage/engage) should have access to.
: How I see it, it's not worth it to come off to get shield because it's too low, no mana regain and they up the cost on her Q to poke for Laning phase. So basically the laning phase might be hell now...they could've lessen the amount of mana she receives but don't out right take it out she's already squishy and not much adc's like to play with her.
A champion with that much poke needs to have a limit on how often she can poke and forced to grab items to maintain it. If anything it probably just bought her early game power down a scoosh.
Bastion (NA)
: I think that was because Irelia is/was already overloaded. Having a passive that increases attack speed and damage along with shield busting (+ the rest of her kit) is pretty powerful to have on 1 champion. By distributing this power to other classes, you side step the issue of having Irelia be turbo loaded while increasing other champ viability. Whether or not Renekton was a good candidate for this buff, is a different story, but I'd like to see how he does for this patch.
RIP top lane Karma/Rumble shields.
Adam0193 (NA)
: “Revive is an unfun mechanic” is all it takes for it to be removed? Might as well remove Zilean ult then. Or Guardian Angel. Or Sion/Kog’Maw passives. Or Karthus passive so he can’t keep damaging you after he dies. The point being, just because something isn’t fun to play against, doesn’t mean it should be removed. Aatrox’s revive was a core part of who he was. He was supposed to be this immortal badass demon and riot took that “immortal” part away in the sake of balance. Now he’s just a worse Riven.
If anything I would think getting access to the crazy healing would make him more viable then he ever was.In addition by getting rid of such a 'niche' feature they can afford to put power back into him. I will admit I'm not an Aatrox player as I really didn't like his kit, but watching enough LCS a decent Aatrox looks almost ungankable with said revive. Simply put, IMHO there isn't/wasn't enough counter play to a person who self-revives and can do ridiculous damage/healing as their is in say an assisted resurrection from a teammate. I have about as much fun watching an Aatrox revive lane as I do the unnerfed Akali rework.
: Wouldn't that make the revive fit his lore? He's taking the flesh of the enemies who died to revive himself.
And revert him back to old Aatrox who was out of the meta for ages until the final days/weeks before his rework???
: Teamfight Tactics-- /Dev Update: Your Feedback and the Road Ahead
My {{item:3161}} {{item:3161}} {{champion:53}} Hooks! Bops, walks away! Hooks another long range bops walks away! All other units focus their target? Why not blitzcrank? My amazing BC game where my blitz pulls all the assassins in one by one into my backline despite great setup. TKS BRO!
: PLEASE let us mute other players, it is a pain when they spam in all caps, or spam pings, thanks.
Can I mute the Little Legends emotes? If i hear another squeak I may go deaf!!!
: No comment on the AI? I'm not playing another game until the AI is fixed. Watching the AI do the most stupid decisions every match makes my blood boil. I'm talking about units pathing, units standing still not attacking, units specifically assassins attacking tanks instead of the carries standing next to them, units casting and missing their spells 24/7 etc
Part of the game is figuring out the AI. There is a way to manipulate the assassins to get them to avoid the front/backline. That's why you can look at others map setups before you fight them?
Night 25 (EUW)
: I think most people agree that giving everyone the same amount of items is the less frustrating way to handle RNG. I would also keep the number of items quite high, so there's more to work with and make decisions around. Another thing I would like to see during the game is damage dealt by each one of your champions, so it's easier to realize which ones do the most damage (it's hard to tell even if you add more stats) and which items/champions synergies are working at the moment
I disagree that RNG needs to be taken out and items given equally. The essence of the entire mode is RNG and how you adapt to said RNG especially with the champions/items obtainable. Item RNG while annoying doesn't typically bother me. However, running into severe champion droughts for multiple games straight whereby I couldn't achieve a tier 2 for 2 rounds feels really bad. While not 'over' it feels like I'm wasting a terribly long amount of time on the 'attempt' to come back and its hard to one-way a suitable item for champions if I can't even get a likelihood they'll be useful enough in my overall build. RNG can be healthy. But like healthy RNG games there needs to be a little controlled/expected element to the chaos. Otherwise there's no game or aspect of skill its only luck.
: Please fix this delayed loading issue at the start of games. It prevents us from loading into the game in time to chose our first champion from the first carousel round, meaning I end up skipping the carousel and am only ready to play in the first PvE round with one of the remaining champions from the carousel automatically chosen for me. My game settings are all set to low quality or disabled for the best performace but I still can't load in time.
I don't have this issue, but I have experienced it before. There simply isn't enough time in the initial carousel. Even if you get in, if your first pick gets stolen your hosed.
: Teamfight Tactics-- /Dev Update: Your Feedback and the Road Ahead
Problem#1 I had was time with the initial carousel and pick stealing. If your pick gets stolen in the first carousel there is no time to get a second best. What's worse the game doesn't give you your closest pick but a random one. Please put a few more seconds into the initial pick to prevent pick sniping. Rounds and all carousels after are fine if not a little long. Problem#2 Carousel advantages aren't really felt sometimes. Why? because the design is circular. Sometimes being first to pick means I get my 3rd best choice. Why? Because I have to run around the circle to get it and by then another person has subsequently unlocked already nabbed it. Solution: Spawn pickers into the center of the circle when it is there turn. They are all then equidistant to their picks and have a fair chance. Pick advantage is preserved 100%. Kick the unit out of the circle when their pick is done. (Keeps annoying people from keeping the rest of the lottery from being able to make a sensitive pick..had this happen a few times too). Finally) PLEASE DEAR GOD ENABLE THE SAME CAMERA LOCK SR AND ARAM SHARE SO I CAN GET BACK TO THE CENTER OF THE MAP!!! SO INFURATING TO HAVE THE LITTLE LEGEND RUN OFF SCREEN SO I CAN'T SEE ANYTHING AND CAN'T GET CENTERED BACK ON THE MAP.
: > [{quoted}](name=MrSnowman0,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=4HOMjBEE,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-07-04T01:23:59.469+0000) > > get {{item:3161}} {{item:3161}} {{champion:555}} out of my games -_- I honestly think you shouldn't be able to stack items.
Get {{champion:119}} 1* crushing opponents out of my games.
: Patch 9.9 notes
Last time on Dragonball Z. KAMMMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!! Next time on Dragonball Z. KAMMMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!
: Also it is true Riot really did revert the items, but I'm not sure if you noticed, but they lowered the Critical Chance on {{item:3094}}, {{item:3087}}, {{item:3085}}, and {{item:3046}}, and lowered the attack speed a ton. Back then, Crit items used to give 40%-50% attack speed which, for an example, helped {{champion:202}} out a ton. Now with attack speed items being 30%-40% Attack speed, it is really hard to get that "orb walking" feeling when you can never always take Alacrity in your precision rune page due to lack of life steal in your later build. See the issue is, in my opinion, a typical ADC build would go like this (when people actually picked tanks and whatnot). {{item:3006}} {{item:3094}} {{item:3031}} {{item:3087}} {{item:3036}} {{item:3026}}, but that would mean you have to take bloodline in your rune page which sacrifices your early game attack speed. Additionally, to the nerfs on sorcery (Absolute Focus and Celerity) marksmen take Inspiration or Domination meaning you essentially will not even be able to get your boots early on due to Magical Footwear, or if you take Domination, you sacrifice the biscuits for sustain. Overall, I would not say that ADCs are struggling, but I say that there is not a lot of options when it comes to picking an ADC to play, for so many of them are out of meta it's difficult to play ADC in this Bruiser meta.
Somebody has to be last. And for NA and Doublelift's sake I'm glad Jhin is on the bottom. All this, yet, Varus, Ashe, Vayne are still within the top 7. And this is counting all the weird Taric games and the OP Ezreal skewed games. https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/builds/adc/lcs
Mortdog (NA)
: Ok :) https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2019/04/dev-aram-changes-wrap-up/
BTW lot of info in this article, really do appreciate seeing the visualizations and while I can understand the rationalization, I really do hope you take another attempt at it in the future. My average time loading into games severely diminished with bans not having to wait for people who ragequit as often when they don't get the champ they want.
Mortdog (NA)
: Ok :) https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2019/04/dev-aram-changes-wrap-up/
## #makeARAMBeautiful #bringbackbans - join in if you agree :)
: I play nothing but aram. Aram mmr is in top 1% and the changes have made me quit league. The game of aram is nothing like it used to be. Nothing but luck in games, who wins the team fight around 10 mins? They kill 2 paper towers. They want to die and buy! They die and the other team that lost both towers loss 4 and loss game. The damn towers are the single biggest problem, farts knock them down. Buffalo the towers so I don't just loss the game after my 18/1 ass gets killed so I can buy, just to see my team unable to to defend and loss the game
I'd disagree. If towers were buffalos, I'd either have more aggravation in having to wait for my next game (I mean if i lost in team comp, buffalo towers aren't going to save me), or just be outscaled to death by one or two inevitable hypercarries each game (yi,jax) only causing me to be more frustrated. Towers are already hard enough to take as since respawn times are relatively low early on and if even ONE mage survives with mana there is already plenty of wave clear to stall a tower take. I can't count how many senseless games where my team has wiped as 4 where i just abuse lux wave clear and stall the tower. I do however hate that late game damage buffs to towers. If everyone can be Ziggs/Trist than whats the point in playing them. Also it seems to make games end a lot more abruptly then they otherwise should when the game finally gets to a point of being interesting/balanced item wise.
: First of all, Riot did say in the patch notes doing this removal that it was partially based on feedback and discussion between themselves. This does confirm that opinions from the community were taken in charge. Now, add the fact that an huge proportion of players were welcoming the bans with open arms (on here and Reddit at least) and we can already see a tendency in favor of keeping them. Even now, it has not even been a full day since the ANNOUNCEMENT (not even the implementation!!!) of these changes that the hot section of the boards already have several threads including mine **showing exceedingly positive scores**, even if anything related to ARAM barely gets any attention in normal circumstances. From this, we can see a strong leaning towards the apprectiation of bans in the gamemode. You can always say that this represents only a vocal proportion and it doesn't actually represent the demographics or whatever, but literally anything can be negated by this same thing to the point it isn't relevant at all and is really tiring to always see here on the boards (such things as saying "Riven and Vayne are perfectly fine, since the boards is the vocal minority and shouldn't be taken seriously at all") Feedback IS feedback as soon as it is observable and should get the considerable weight its worth for, and the observation we can easily set is that *Riot went against the popular feedback to make changes that are unwelcome for the majority said feedback*. How do I know that the negative feedback is coming from people barely playing ARAM usually? Well, I feel that you would simply point at an X player saying he is against the bans and point out his game history showing clear evidence of several past ARAM games just to say "haha! I've proven your point wrong by cherry picking amongst an array of possibilities a single occurence that says otherwise!", but I'll still explain myself. As I already said, the proportion of positive feedback against negative one was utterly crushing, meaning that the actual number of occurences of people arguing AGAINST aram bans is actually quite low, low enough that you can literally just show any occurences of "Howling Abyss" in one's match history and it'll show you information that can be applied to quite a big proportion of the feedback (lower occurences of said persons providing such feedback does mean that they represent a much bigger proportion of the opposition themselves when compaired to those going with the trend). So, by simply doing a research within the the match history of some accounts, you can see some pretty interesting things. What a surprise to see amongst most people some tendency to have between about a single game of ARAM or ten each months, depending on how much they play as a whole and still representing a very small proportion of their games played. Personally, I made the assumption that most people giving negative feedbacks and showing those kind of match history play ARAM as something to relieve frustration from normal gameplay. While this is quite understandable, this also means that those kind of people will most probably not experience what frequent ARAM players do experience, since a random game mode that you are unfamiliar with requires more iterations of experimentation to see a trend (such as ARAM accounts and frequent picks who were both aimed at by the ban changes), hence how their feedback is extremely, well biased. Try it: dig up some threads from the last weeks and identify key threads and comments providing negative comments about the bans, since most of them have a solid negative score, you can easily spot them by the furious red colored numbers. Check the users, and while you WILL end up with some results showing guenuine experienced feedback (after all, most feedback were in favor of the ban implementations, but it wasn't under any way exclusively in its favor), you will also end up with some occurences that would bring some thought on "do they really understand what the gamemode is about?" This and, well, a "new" occurence of type of players. In fact, I will kinda change my first statement that was "based on the feedback of people who played ARAM only for the event" to "based on the feedback of people who most probably have no specific knowledge on its inner workings **and those who were actually aimed at by the changes**", admitting that I was partially wrong in the first place. You see, while there's some people out there who do have an impressive ARAM history who are also against the bans in it, their picks in it are quite...odd. In fact, you see them playing, yes, an HUGE number of ARAM games, but their picks are, for someone who play as much, quite frequent and weirdly consistent. What a surprise to see people who usually get several champions from the top 10 winrates in ARAM, then get a very frequent number of free-rolled picks after the introduction of bans protest against them. Weird indeed, its almost as if...
As a person who has only 1 account with THOUSANDS of ARAM games, owns every champion, and (when they were still tracking it) had about a 55% winrate in ARAM. I APPROVE THIS MESSAGE! Bans are a necessary evil. Since last major set of ARAM buffs and before the serious evolution of the game from a slow play poke fest while waiting on minions to a more fast paced mode where everything is allowed(improving item scale times like tear and ROA), some champions will ineviitably hit late game fantasy of death and destruction. While the more power picks in the game, ziggs,sona, heimer were definitely terrors their scaling was not as a challenge to deal with these inevitable hypercarry picks. Bans provide some relief that the champions that are going to auto-win the game at 20 are somewhat diminished. Even if you can't take care of all the terrors, you could at least remove the one bane of your existence that plagued you that 'somehow' showed up from one game to another despite being a random mode. #bringbackbans
: The main reason why i play ARAM only, Is because i dont wanna waste 40min-80min in a game and just lose in the end. Rather spend up to 15min-30min max in a game either losing or winning, and i get to try other champs and get mastery points across my champs. Shame, I liked the bans, it cut out a lot of the busted ass champs in that mode. Yes its a random mode and forces you to learn the other champs you have, but good luck freaking learning when the other team has Karth, Brand, Veig, Ziggs, and Morg. Of course if they luck out with those rolls and are decent with those champs. If we still have bans, i and many others wouldnt be pulling our hair out.
I play ARAM mainly because I feel I'm decent mechanically, and I don't really care to balance that mechancis around the science of the map and taking objectives.
: Your choice, but if every champions should be played, then the whole gamemode should've been reworked into no bans, no rerolls, no trade and no champion change from dodging while giving full roster to everyone. The problem before bans happened is that, well, not every champions were played because of how easy it is to manipulate the picks you get. The bans actually enhanced the amount of time low winrate champions were played since it wasn't as easy to rely on getting an high winrate one, thus actually increasing the amount of effectively played champions.
I noticed a MARKED difference in games dropped at champion select with <5 seconds to go with bans. Why? Easier to ban out things you don't want. Easier to reroll into at least a reasonable comp! All the while not preventing completely OP comps from still existing and steamrolling.
: Riot recently made the best addition ARAM ever got just to remove it mere days later...
Missing bans already. There are just some picks that in even a decent players hand can unilaterally take over a game.
: Patch 9.8 Notes
RIOT! Why do you not understand the need to ban that annoying late game Kayle of ARAM who always hits endgame shenanigans!!!!!!!
: Lol, these kids just crying over wanting ezmode handouts. Try handling some adversity in life
Just because I want some semblance of avoiding terrifying picks so I can have slightly more competitive games on average I wouldn't call it ezmode. And if you don't like removing OP's at least remove a few crap picks so you can avoid rolling into them. This was easily the best change to hit the Abyss.
: What do you think about my thoughts/rework idea on garen that will possibly keep both of you and riot satisfied! https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/general-discussion/zFZ214Ur-a-garen-rework-that-satasfies-most-players-in-the-game Here i will state the problems each group of players have with Garen and the solution: Riotrepertoir stated that Garen is hard to balance: (the things that would need to be done to make Garen a powerful option in pro (or even high skilled solo queue play) would likely mean he’s disgustingly powerful for most players.) https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2018/03/ask-riot-hard-to-balance-champs/ Garen: he stomps people in low elo// abilities -> binary /mobility is not even close to be as good as other meta toplaners gaping flaws->(kitable, has barely any CC) There are 3 parties when it comes to Garen. Group 1 to 3 1.) Riot wants to keep Garen as a champ for beginners 2.) People that get stomped in lane by Garen mains are in bronze/silver 3.) Garen mains that play him in high elo that get beaten up in their lanes because of the reasons above Now this is how it should be: To satisfy all 3 groups Garen needs changes to his kit that keep him a basic champion with abilities that allow players with a higher skill ceilling to outplay his opponent. Possible Solution to satisfy all 3 Groups: 1.) Keep the general frame of his kit Q/W/E/R how it is 2.)Take away the unreliable (RNG) Villian mechanic that destroys people in low elo/ and add CC to his R so Garen becomes usefull in teamfights 3.) add something to his kit that rewards skillfull players and punishes if the player misses the play* *Here is the solution or my thoughts : If Garen activates his Q and reaches a certain distance to his Q target, he can leap forward by pressing Q for a 2nd time then he deals bonus damage on hit. IF Garen does not connect then his Q cooldown extends by 4 seconds or X amount of time needs PBE testing! To compensate the removal of the villian mechanic that is an unreliable (RNG) and unfun mechanic his NEW R draws people in X distance of sucessfull execution of the enemy towards the impact area of his ult and slows them for X amount of time.
Let 'Spin' reflect or deflect projectiles. Even if he can't get in, he can at least provide some utility while he's busy being kited anyway. (Of course URF Garen woudl be unstoppable unless you fix the perma 'Spin'.) From this he has something relatively simple counterplay and teamwork, and you can tweak his numbers down if need be to make up for this ability. He's still susceptible to point & click, melee CC or anything when its down. Simply put his weakness is his 'Spin' downtime anyway, he's already easily kiteable, at least this provides some relief if not a fun mechanic.
: Garen could use a WW scale rework tbh. Still beginner friendly,but with enough room for skill improvement.
As long as they remove that Villain mechanic. By far the dumbest idea I've seen and too imprecise of a passive to be effective.
: Garen deserves a large-scope rework
Needs the ability to bat projectiles back during spin...OH YEAH! Finally, he's mechanically complex, trades offense for defense unless he's already in, and can stay in long enough not to have to death bush/flank in order to get immediately CC'd against a fair number of champions. Could even remove the tenacity from his 'W' if it seems OP. On top of that Garen who's all about Demacia and teamwork finally has team utility and not just a selfish champion if he can't get in to do damage. Meanwhile point and click CC, melee CC, all still viable counters.
: I feel like I want some champions to be as simple and straight-forward like Garen. It fits his personality and his identity as a Demacian who's naturally opposed to Magic. I'm a M7 Garen so it's not like I'm hating on the champion or intentionally trying to ignore him. Q (charging and silence) = shows his courage charging into battle and the remove slow/silence shows the anti-magic/Demacian side of him. W (dmg reduction and tenacity) = strong dude and again, anti-magic. E = I don't know how this really ties in to his identity. R= Shows Demacian might and justice to those who oppose Demacia (villain). It's pretty dramatic and cool. I'm not saying Demacian Champion = No CC/Magic/tricky Skill Champion. That's simply not true. It's just that Garen is the most iconic Demacian in League of Legends and embodies the ideals of Demacia. He is the might of Demacia. While Noxus might use whatever means to win, not Demacia. Demacia fights with honor and dignity. Which is why I like how Garen is straightforward and doesn't use tricks to fight. (Doesn't mean a total lack of skill expression either, especially with the active part of his W) **Garen fights fair even if the fight is unfair for him. ** {{sticker:garen-swing}}
SIMPLE + STRAIGHTFORWARD = EVERY ADC sooner or later Garen's going to be bad enough for even demo purposes. Why get new people hooked on a champ who's kit will frankly never succeed. He's got a greedy playstyle, and for one who serves Demacia his kit does nothing to empthasize teamwork. Even his theme doesn't fit his playstyle and by a LARGE degree. Run away to regen, when Demacia's about going in. "Forge onward!" "Our courage must never waver." So courage must never waiver, yet we're giving him a passive that requires him to run out of combat and waiver?
Saianna (EUNE)
: It's super weird people even bother to dodge nowadays especially when we have the "rerolled champions bin", which helps a fuckton. Like seriously, they are the kind of people who dodge the game because they don't have 101% win chance, or some OP urf champion..
Yeah, which is one of the reasons I become more super frustrated. Soo many dodges still regardless of the new features.
Rioter Comments
: So conqueror...at max rank it is a free deaths dance that gives 10% bonus true damage and healing instead of the normal 15% healing. That seems way to strong. There isn't a single other rune out there that gives the equivalent of a full item. If you compare it to electrocute which is one of the damage runes, it just gives around 300 damage depending on their tankiness. Most top champs were taking the old conqueror, but now I can't see a reason for any top champion to take anything but conqueror.
Would beg to differ. Big difference between 15% that turns on instantly and 10% that you have to stay in combat for. Each functions differently for different ideal situations of course but: * Endgame Dark Harvest easily can accumulate over the measely 80 ad/ap of a Death's Dance with but 3 souls. * Even arcane comet hits for over 100 (before the 20% ap scaling) end game meaning functionally it will easily grant you about the same damage increase as the raw AP granted from a deathcap (no passive). Not everyone can afford to sit in combat long enough to charge this up, it can no longer be charged on minions, pretty much means your going to have to trade your high AD hopes at some points for some defense,have something built into your kit, or get the jump on your opponent. * But over similar time frames having to take the time to charge this up puts the person at more risk so why not a bit more reward. * Since you are at higher risk, you either have defensive utility in your kit and stack the AD and gamble on your skill or you build in some raw defense thereby trading off your 10% bonus anyway.
: So now supports have no reason to harras an enemy. Cuz their items just die whenever adc f*cks off? Great... Well tank sups only now. See no reason to play raka janna or nami now. They allready took skill to play and they are good because you could hold harras enemy champs from your turret. But now they will be behind and that making klepto on them mandatory.(or you forced to play super agro when your adc is near - what can get you in really bad spots). W8, Jungl changes that force jungl to only ganks(cuz they cant take gold from minions now) Now sups that will be forced to play super agro... You are truing to turn it into some Battle royale with CoD lvl of action aren`t ya?
Raka/Janna/Nami take skill? Janna...seriously?
: You do realize that Xayah had an [80% pick/ban rate](https://lol.gamepedia.com/2018_Season_World_Championship/Main_Event/Champion_Statistics) at the most recent world championship (4 months ago), right? Where are you getting this 8 month measurement? Even now she's still relevant in the pro scene, hovering around a 25% pick/ban rate among the pro regions. She's far from unplayable lol. Not great, but not as trash as you make her out to be.
I'd say kog has been out of the meta far longer than Xayah. A) They ruined crit. (Granted they are bringing it back with 9.3 so who knows) B) They nerfed shielding. = No more protect the kog comps.
Spiçy (NA)
: Can someone look into Tahm Kench (this mostly applies to top) When you are getting stacks on a enemy, then go to press w to eat them, you'll eat a nearby minion instead, idk if it's a ping thing (my ping is around 65, and stable) it's like if the server doesn't realize the 3 fish things are all stacked up yet, and so ignores champ and eats a minion close to the champ instead. Thanks Riot,
Check your quick cast settings. Quick cast = sometimes I don't do even close to what I intended.
: You're cutting out half of the equation, which is item slot efficiency. While ER was the quicker buy, it was never a rushed item since, again, you were committing to being squishier in order to have your burst. Spear lets you actually put stats to use. Though the higher amount of AD helped with burst, fact is the item geared you into getting blown to hell. If you wanted to steamroll, you'd have to do it quick. Now this acts as a different kind of Triforce with its effect - but one for champs with no mana gated just by their cooldowns rather than being used on already spamming champs. The problem is that you can still go out of mana with Triforce - there's no such thing as that on the champs that build Spear. In addition, the power Triforce gives is metered out between AS, AD, mana, and health - you get a little of each instead of investing into one stat. On champs like, say, Ez, the AS barely even gets used that much. Yorick has the same issue where the AS is kind of a moot point - it doesn't make the effect go faster, doesn't reduce cooldowns, it doesn't do _any_ thing besides increase attack speed on champs that really don't need a large amount of it. And these are the champs it's _best_ on? Arguably Darius has the best time with Triforce as he actually puts every single stat to use, and he's still gated by his own relative immobility and lack of ranged poke/initiation. But 60 AD? Yeah, every champ that builds that item is going to put that to a ton of use. In fact, we should just compare these two items' stats flat out: 250 health, 20% CDR, and 60 AD versus 250 health and mana, 40% AS, 25 AD, and 20% CDR. Taking into account that mana is a completely moot stat on the champs that largely build spear, we're weighing literally 60 AD versus 25 AD and 40% AS - the stats of most old AD items and the stats of Swift Zephyr. And Triforce is an item that is largely considered inefficient in its own right, but on the champs it's for, it is an absolute must buy to the point those champs and the item are balanced around each other one and the same. So a must-buy item for champions that have largely been balanced around not having that item so far now have the item they've always dreamed of that solves basically all their issues much in the same manner triforce helps out its champs - except where triforce ends up being more a jack-of-all trades item, spear only needs its three trades: CDR, health, and damage, and when you only need to plug numbers into half the stats, you have a lot more stats to throw around. This item has no loose ends, no wasted stats, and that's where the issue comes in: its effect is phenomenal for being so slot/stat efficient for the champs it's made for.
When you're calculate efficiency you calculate the gold value of the stats your paying for. Sure they're getting a kindle gem out of it. The item is more efficient in terms of the stats that are useful to the people that bought it. But the item is less efficient in terms of the total gold and opportunity cost of acquiring the item. THAT IS HUGE! What you're forgetting is that by making it more expensive the opportunity cost of taking it will balance the item out. I.E. putting 400 more gp into this power spike means that's more gold your not putting in additional items to back this item up. Meanwhile thats 400gp your opponent can put into countering it. Which in turn will balance the ridiculousness of the item. You get Spear of Shojin. I have black cleaver(3400 gp from SoS probably competes directly with this item in terms of slot) and am 100gp away from Ninja tabi. Maybe not a full counter I have 20 less AD just as much static CDR, but more damage in terms of armor shred. In turn I've also tacked on mitigation. My item is useful 100% of the time. Your item is only useful when your ult is available. Compared to old essence reaver which I may have barely finished my cleaver. Even if you bought it just for the passive, that 15 more AD and a passive you had 1-2 waves sooner. The reality of this item is the 3400gp item cost is near Trinity Force cost. EVEN IF its as broken as you think you're paying for the power spike. If this item is a power spike, playing against a champion with this should be no different than playing against anyone else in a power spike. Respect it or die. But to say its broken...I don't think so. Not in the slightest. 3400gp is more than enough time to send 1-2 ganks this way to punish the lane, create a CS/level lead, and make this item inconsequential.
: > [{quoted}](name=Toxic Control,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RzNGV85T,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-02-07T13:45:22.511+0000) > > Now we can argue that ER did the same thing and nobody was truly broken with that item - but the thing is that ER granted no bulk and restored mana on hit, meaning half of the stats and effects the item gave out were utterly wasted one these champs. > Spear throws that idea out the window. Now it's a bruiser item mitigating all of a bruiser's weaknesses immediately on buy - it may be expensive, but you cover all your early game bases with the item: health for your early bulk, AD to do damage, and your cooldowns are effectively rendered irrelevant. I largely thought the same at first, but a closer inspection proves this wrong. Old essence reaver cost 3000g New spear of shojin costs 3400g Further, old essence reaver gave 75AD. New spear gives 60AD. Finally, old ER gave 0 health New spear gives 250 health So even if we entirely ignore the mana aspect of old essence reaver: Gold cost is up 400 Ad value is down 525 Health value is up 667 Net effect: 400+525-667= 258 That's to say, if AD and Health are valued equally and mana is worth nothing, the item was nerfed by 258g. Further: Since the new item costs more, it will delay your completion of it (longer downtime before the Champions become super powered), and it will delay the completion of every other complete item in their build (if they rush it, they'll get Trinity 400g later, they'll get their defensive items 400g later, etc...). However since it's more slot efficient (250hp is worth more than 15AD, especially on these Champions) they will be stronger at full build. This is the only real argument to have against the change. Now with all of that said: essence reaver was indeed beyond busted on these guys, and spear will remain busted on them. It is a problem and needs to be addressed. However don't act like this made it worse - it is a nerf to the item so the balance team aren't complete idiots. They're moving in the right direction.
: Patch 9.3 notes
Are we considering nerfing the Jhin buffs that we gave him awhile back to make sure Stormrazor was effective on him. Have to say I don't think the current version of him falls in line with these new items.
: We're going to be paying attention to ARAM in regards to Dark Harvest to make sure it's not awfully warping for that mode. We don't want victory to be determined by "which team has more teams that can abuse Dark Harvest". I have no idea yet if the current nerfs have gone far enough, but rest assured that we're paying attention.
I hope its soon. Even champions who have no business taking DH are taking it. I average 4-5 people taking it a game. I'd show you a screenshot of my last game with a DH/precision Sion, but its a bit gruesome. I don't want tanks with full tank builds being 2nd in team kills because of a talent tree pick that awards free damage from ANY/EVERY ability in the game. Really can't depend on looking at someones items anymore to know if you have the health for a trade with this rune. At the very least it should mark a target for a period of time for follow up damage or something, not provide free damage from fire and forget poke.
: > [{quoted}](name=Spoo,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=RfjE2AUv,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-01-29T21:09:12.910+0000) > > Google drive links work, onedrive etc. I just don't want to have my email posted with it as well.
> [{quoted}](name=How Do You Meta,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=RfjE2AUv,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-01-29T23:00:39.048+0000) > > I just don't want to have my email posted with it as well. Gotcha, just assuming you maid a faux email like some people do.
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Spoo

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