: It is pretty good on many champions. The issue is that Morellonomicon is extremely powerful and tends to overshadow other options. -------------------- Even on a "core" user of Seraph's Embrace like Anivia, I'd be rather tempted to build Morellonomicon after Rod of Ages for the CDR.
> [{quoted}](name=EndlessSorcerer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wP76gcZT,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-02-17T13:51:25.921+0000) > > It is pretty good on many champions. > > The issue is that Morellonomicon is extremely powerful and tends to overshadow other options. > -------------------- > Even on a "core" user of Seraph's Embrace like Anivia, I'd be rather tempted to build Morellonomicon after Rod of Ages for the CDR. Ehhhhh but perhaps sit on a tear.
: Archangle's staff
{{champion:266}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:150}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:85}} {{champion:240}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:421}} {{champion:58}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:98}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:154}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:238}} Kappa
Ixchel (NA)
: Why are there no "reworks" like Garen's?
Darius's rework is a much better example of a "change nothing" rework. Garen's was a failure IMO.
Ralanr (NA)
: Lack of in combat sustain imo.
> [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UwE3VAy3,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-02-14T13:26:28.822+0000) > > Lack of in combat sustain imo. And sometimes mediocre base stats. Juggernauts end up being surprisingly tanky without items because their base stats are usually beefed up to the max. Its also why many of them have very decent level 1 all ins and anti all ins.
Jaygo41 (NA)
: Thunderlords is still the best Keystone
Ok, ill insert a bruiser with high ad ratios that isnt riven. {{champion:122}} And if you go thunderlords with hm youre a boosted fucking animal, because fervor is way more oppressive.
JuhnChan (NA)
: Wow I didn't know it was my fault for not being able to afford Leblanc and try her out. Or having a job and not being able to play during freeweek. Or you know, playing {{champion:112}} who has 0 leverage against {{champion:7}} , the champion who happens to be able to dodge the laser, outpace the stun field, and outmaneuver his ult all while dealing massive damage at the same time. If you've been following League of Legends' balance history you'll know that saying don't pick _________ because it gets hard countered by _________ is a sack of shit. Some champs in this game don't have mobility, so even if they walk in the opposite direction, it doesn't do anything because Leblanc is moving at the same speed. Just RIP right? Never should play those champs ever. League of Mobility is where it's at. {{champion:7}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:154}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:254}} {{champion:64}} or go home. Fuck the rest of 'em.
> [{quoted}](name=JuhnChan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=i9r2TQka,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2017-01-23T01:26:30.895+0000) > > Wow I didn't know it was my fault for not being able to afford Leblanc and try her out. > > Or having a job and not being able to play during freeweek. > > Or you know, playing {{champion:112}} who has 0 leverage against {{champion:7}} , the champion who happens to be able to dodge the laser, outpace the stun field, and outmaneuver his ult all while dealing massive damage at the same time. If you've been following League of Legends' balance history you'll know that saying don't pick _________ because it gets hard countered by _________ is a sack of shit. Some champs in this game don't have mobility, so even if they walk in the opposite direction, it doesn't do anything because Leblanc is moving at the same speed. Just RIP right? Never should play those champs ever. League of Mobility is where it's at. {{champion:7}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:154}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:254}} {{champion:64}} or go home. Fuck the rest of 'em. {{champion:48}} is not a mobile champion.
: specialization has everything to do with it. If you change the power curve over time you must compensate for this. Most adcs have never been this strong earlygame and when lategame comes they are weaker than they used to be. If you want to go further down that path then careful what you wish for. Making tanks strong lategame also has little good to offer. The game needs to end.
> [{quoted}](name=ScissorsNstuff,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rihbUv2e,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-17T17:05:21.695+0000) > > specialization has everything to do with it. If you change the power curve over time you must compensate for this. Most adcs have never been this strong earlygame and when lategame comes they are weaker than they used to be. If you want to go further down that path then careful what you wish for. > > Making tanks strong lategame also has little good to offer. The game needs to end. Fail. There will always be late game and early game centric ADCs. Itemization for both early and late should be available to all classes, and scaling should be mostly dependent upon champion kit, not itemization. Its why we have the abomination known as caitlyn, an early and late game god.
: Except Fiora can beat Camille 1v1 iirc.
> [{quoted}](name=TyrekGoldenspear,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jNQzi9Um,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-01-17T16:50:36.651+0000) > > Except Fiora can beat Camille 1v1 iirc. Thats what everyone thought at first. As it actually turns out fiora tries her little lunge stab and gets a face fucking with four times her own true damage output in retaliation.
: because then to balance out that adcs are going to be doing so much lategame you have to gimp them all game and then do the same with tanks for the opposite reason. Basically both will go from specialists to special snowflakes that disappoint all day long (like right now but worse)
> [{quoted}](name=ScissorsNstuff,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rihbUv2e,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-17T17:00:00.821+0000) > > because then to balance out that adcs are going to be doing so much lategame you have to gimp them all game and then do the same with tanks for the opposite reason. Basically both will go from specialists to special snowflakes that disappoint all day long (like right now but worse) Not at all, I think you misread what Im suggesting. Specialization has nothing to do with game phases. ADCs can still be best at what they do and tanks best at what they do respectively. Game phase should have little to do with the class and moreso to do with the individual champion (am I playing a bully or a late game scale?).
: > [{quoted}](name=SquashCannon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rihbUv2e,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-01-17T16:07:43.740+0000) > > Give ADCs something to do early game and make tanks actual meat shields even towards late game? no
> [{quoted}](name=ScissorsNstuff,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rihbUv2e,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-01-17T16:48:11.637+0000) > > no And why not?
: {{champion:15}} people just need to play her into him
> [{quoted}](name=ReZisT Lust,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZQTHQGoW,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-01-16T23:28:07.797+0000) > > {{champion:15}} people just need to play her into him Yeah but her gutting makes her feel shit to play as.
Rioter Comments
Shundown (NA)
: A statement to Riot Games
Holy shit vayne actually relied on her W back then instead of Q half-healthing people.
Rioter Comments
: Because they're two different champions with two different kits meant to build differently?
> [{quoted}](name=tombdragon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nywMrRyw,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-01-17T06:05:28.535+0000) > > Because they're two different champions with two different kits meant to build differently? Theyre both hybrid damage fighters meant to build quite a bit of damage. I contest the idea that because these two hybrids are different champions that one gets to build all AD and even AD pen while still outputting stupid amounts of magic damage while another has to have more balance and isnt allowed to build pen at all.
Rioter Comments
: His mana cost changes didn't address his strong areas anyway. Base mana buffs were inconsequential. Not enough to allow him to forgo Tear. In fact, it made him stronger with Tear. The one to his W only affects his all-in costs, but barely. The ability is literally never used outside of all-ins. It was a pretty small buff either way. Not enough to allow him to forgo Tear. The only significant change was the reduced scaling mana cost to his E, which you max last anyway, so you don't see any benefits until 13+, which is where he's already falling off pretty hard. __________________ None of the mana buffs were significant enough to allow him to forgo Tear. He just never needed Tear in the first place. Idiots spamming EQ all day in lane is why people thought he needed Tear. Don't spam EQ, and you realize he didn't need Tear and never has.
> [{quoted}](name=WoonStruck,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nHZMBpmi,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2017-01-16T15:26:43.825+0000) > > His mana cost changes didn't address his strong areas anyway. > > Base mana buffs were inconsequential. Not enough to allow him to forgo Tear. In fact, it made him stronger with Tear. > > The one to his W only affects his all-in costs, but barely. The ability is literally never used outside of all-ins. Not enough to allow him to forgo Tear. > > The only significant change was the reduced scaling mana cost to his E, which you max last anyway, so you don't see any benefits until 13+, which is where he's already falling off pretty hard. > > __________________ > > None of the mana buffs were significant enough to allow him to forgo Tear. He just never needed Tear in the first place. > > Idiots spamming EQ all day in lane is why people thought he needed Tear. Don't spam EQ, and you realize he didn't need Tear and never has. load of shit.
Rioter Comments
: Winrate OVER playrate is what matters, not just winrate.
> [{quoted}](name=Marshbouy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Nq8lvYmw,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-01-14T18:01:59.599+0000) > > Last season pre-rework Yorick was played once in challenger and was 100% winrate. Do you really think he needed nerfs? In which case, there are a few champions that deserve nerfs alongside {{champion:122}} the current PBE is nothing but a bunch of AIDS.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Because adding an extra 5 HP per sec early and over 40 HP per sec late (without modifiers) is useless??? Really???? Having the only resource that you have to manage (other than cooldowns) to be replenished faster out of combat is useless???
> [{quoted}](name=doiminat0r3600,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dEyFjMc8,comment-id=0006000000010000,timestamp=2017-01-14T03:31:49.391+0000) > > Because adding an extra 5 HP per sec early and over 40 HP per sec late (without modifiers) is useless??? Really???? Having the only resource that you have to manage (other than cooldowns) to be replenished faster out of combat is useless??? That regen can only be unlocked after completely backing off the lane for 9 seconds. That's just irrational for a pure melee champion. You're basically telling garen "we know your kit makes you want to get in it for cs and trading, but your passive is telling you you need to fuck off and lose cs and dont trade at all" And that's how most garen lanes are.
Rioter Comments
: He did great on the garen rework though... He literally listened to the community by asking, then took all of that into consideration. He used everything the community said was a main detail about him. Reworks aren't supposed to change a champion completely, but they are supposed to just update a champion so they can be relevant in the time, which is what happened to garen. Pre-rework, he was almost never picked except by the die hard mains. Now, he can be easily picked up and everyone that used to play him was happy. I don't understand why you're bringing a perfectly good rework that happened almost a year ago into this.
> [{quoted}](name=doiminat0r3600,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dEyFjMc8,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2017-01-13T17:45:58.095+0000) > > He did great on the garen rework though... He literally listened to the community by asking, then took all of that into consideration. He used everything the community said was a main detail about him. > > Reworks aren't supposed to change a champion completely, but they are supposed to just update a champion so they can be relevant in the time, which is what happened to garen. Pre-rework, he was almost never picked except by the die hard mains. Now, he can be easily picked up and everyone that used to play him was happy. > > I don't understand why you're bringing a perfectly good rework that happened almost a year ago into this. No he didn't, that useless freaking passive is still there.
: Opinion on Darius nerf
Also as a M7 darius main (this is a smurf) I wholeheartedly disagree. I'd rather the Q nerf than the passive nerf.
: At least with ArP your damage was consistent. Nowadays you can lose fights bot by simply critting less than the enemy ADC when you both have BF+Zeal.
> [{quoted}](name=My Waifu Chocola,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=g6vxkQ88,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2017-01-12T23:52:17.141+0000) > > At least with ArP your damage was consistent. Nowadays you can lose fights bot by simply critting less than the enemy ADC when you both have BF+Zeal. You're right, when ADCs use Arpen I get consistently fucked to the ground LUL. At least the damage is consistent, that's all that matters.
: AA > W > Q isnt hard. It doesnt take good mechanics to pull off consistantly lol
> [{quoted}](name=WhoIsThisDude,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OL54oUFn,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-01-13T01:50:47.716+0000) > > AA > W > Q isnt hard. It doesnt take good mechanics to pull off consistantly lol A lot of people who aren't experienced dont even use W as an AA reset, or many times press W so fast they cancel their AA and the combo becomes moot. There's also the typical low elo "wait until the enemy is at 1 hp before you try and dunk" which wastes so much time and damage in teamfights/skirmishes. You can tell darius noobs from darius players even with a champion as simple as him.
Rioter Comments
Zen Ineth (EUW)
: Lane bullies exist as a counter to the typical late-game scaling hypercarry. Champions like Irelia or Gangplank are great once they reach their power fantasy of having three items and starting to kill people left and right due to that; A lane bully serves as a way to shut them down to delay their carry potential. Someone like Renekton or Darius is meant to have great strength early to remain dominant in the late game if they play properly. Even when played properly, though, a lane bully will typically not reach the same outward potential as one of these hypercarries.
> [{quoted}](name=Zen Ineth,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=z1K9iFZA,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-01-12T16:18:07.489+0000) > > Lane bullies exist as a counter to the typical late-game scaling hypercarry. Champions like Irelia or Gangplank are great once they reach their power fantasy of having three items and starting to kill people left and right due to that; A lane bully serves as a way to shut them down to delay their carry potential. Someone like Renekton or Darius is meant to have great strength early to remain dominant in the late game if they play properly. Even when played properly, though, a lane bully will typically not reach the same outward potential as one of these hypercarries. Funny you mention darius, not when the passive nerf goes through.
: now you change the subject from the actual numbers and facts to "he was never changed so he was balanced" :D This, again, proves me that you admit that this nerf is indeed justified xD Darius is and was always strong, he is a lanebullyfor a reason. And i showed you that is was indeed only a lovetap and not a "from op/broken to trash" tier nerf. just because something has a high winrate it doesnt mean its broken/op. But a drasticly higher winrate indicates that something might be to strong and should be looked at. If you want to convince me that this was, indeed, a "huge" nerf like you claim, than explain me why a 10 bonus Ad loss, after using all your abilitys( except ult) makes a "huge" difference. Otherwise my logic has no fault, thus is the correct one. That is how thinking and working with numbers, facts and theory works.
> [{quoted}](name=Lord Desert,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iwulVksg,comment-id=00110000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-12T21:41:37.514+0000) > > now you change the subject from the actual numbers and facts to "he was never changed so he was balanced" :D > This, again, proves me that you admit that this nerf is indeed justified xD > Darius is and was always strong, he is a lanebullyfor a reason. And i showed you that is was indeed only a lovetap and not a "from op/broken to trash" tier nerf. > > just because something has a high winrate it doesnt mean its broken/op. But a drasticly higher winrate indicates that something might be to strong and should be looked at. > > If you want to convince me that this was, indeed, a "huge" nerf like you claim, than explain me why a 10 bonus Ad loss, after using all your abilitys( except ult) makes a "huge" difference. Otherwise my logic has no fault, thus is the correct one. That is how thinking and working with numbers, facts and theory works. "That is how thinking and working... works." Ignored
: he has 50(+150%bonus ad) and 40 + 100% Ad dmg with low manacosts and a %missing heal and + 30 ad after 5 hits, at level 1! but atleast you admit that this huge nerf is not so huge :D
> [{quoted}](name=Lord Desert,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iwulVksg,comment-id=001100000000,timestamp=2017-01-12T20:49:53.450+0000) > > he has 50(+150%bonus ad) and 40 + 100% Ad dmg with low manacosts and a %missing heal > and + 30 ad after 5 hits, at level 1! > > but atleast you admit that this huge nerf is not so huge :D Actually I don't admit that you silly troll. In any case, darius hasn't been changed since season 5, if he was considered balanced all throughout season 6 only to become broken right when CoC came out, I'd reckon that any logical person can find a correlation that is just a little too convincing with regards to whether or not darius broke darius or CoC broke darius.
: Dammit riot, why?? http://imgur.com/u80Z5cu
> [{quoted}](name=DariusTheGreat,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iwulVksg,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2017-01-12T19:07:04.816+0000) > > Dammit riot, why?? > > https://imgur.com/a/J01dq Image doesnt work
: > [{quoted}](name=SquashCannon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iwulVksg,comment-id=00100000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-12T18:48:14.721+0000) > > And you are missing the point of this thread. Darius himself is fine. Courage of the colossus broke him. Courage is going to get nerfed again, and therefore there is probably no need to nerf darius directly. > > Darius hasnt been changed for over a year. > > Darius had only a 50% win rate before courage was introduced. > > The statistics are right there for you. The statistics I'm looking at say that people that play more than 3 games on him his winrate is 54% to 60%.Overall it's 51.9% and it's being bogged down by the amount of people that play him 1-2 times and only hit 40 to 47% winrate. You want statistics then look at all of them, not just a general one. In ADDITION to that winrate also isn't the only factor in determining whether a champion is too strong or not. Also the argument that he "probably" won't need a nerf is hardly a strong one.
> [{quoted}](name=Verarticus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iwulVksg,comment-id=001000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-12T18:54:26.636+0000) > > The statistics I'm looking at say that people that play more than 3 games on him his winrate is 54% to 60%.Overall it's 51.9% and it's being bogged down by the amount of people that play him 1-2 times and only hit 40 to 47% winrate. You want statistics then look at all of them, not just a general one. In ADDITION to that winrate also isn't the only factor in determining whether a champion is too strong or not. > > Also the argument that he "probably" won't need a nerf is hardly a strong one. Youre looking at current statistics. He had a 50% win rate BEFORE COURAGE WAS INTRODUCED. Can you read? Do you understand the reasoning behind the OP?
: I for one am glad for the nerfs. He's just too good at what he does. He hits way too hard for how tanky he is. Nerf that cancer.
> [{quoted}](name=Mountain Warden,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iwulVksg,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2017-01-12T18:50:58.093+0000) > > I for one am glad for the nerfs. He's just too good at what he does. He hits way too hard for how tanky he is. Nerf that cancer. He isnt too good at what he does, courage is. Explain why darius had a 50% win rate before courage?
: > [{quoted}](name=SquashCannon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iwulVksg,comment-id=001000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-12T18:38:09.756+0000) > > Right, and the early and mid is where darius shines the most. "It goes right back to EQUAL at level 14" at that point I'm falling off anyways... You seem to be missing the point of a nerf here. They WANT his strength to go DOWN. It's like the opposite of a buff. Get it now? They're nerfing where his highest strength point (dueling in a solo lane) is and leaving his weaker late game alone. It's not even as big a deal as you're making it out to be. In ADDITION to that this also opens the possibilities of buffs later down the road since they're weakening his oppressive laning. He could get a late game scaling, he could get something else that make him not fall as hard, who knows. Weakening something now doesn't mean he won't get something more later.
> [{quoted}](name=Verarticus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iwulVksg,comment-id=0010000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-12T18:45:14.903+0000) > > You seem to be missing the point of a nerf here. They WANT his strength to go DOWN. It's like the opposite of a buff. Get it now? They're nerfing where his highest strength point (dueling in a solo lane) is and leaving his weaker late game alone. It's not even as big a deal as you're making it out to be. > > In ADDITION to that this also opens the possibilities of buffs later down the road since they're weakening his oppressive laning. He could get a late game scaling, he could get something else that make him not fall as hard, who knows. Weakening something now doesn't mean he won't get something more later. And you are missing the point of this thread. Darius himself is fine. Courage of the colossus broke him. Courage is going to get nerfed again, and therefore there is probably no need to nerf darius directly. Darius hasnt been changed for over a year. Darius had only a 50% win rate before courage was introduced. The statistics are right there for you.
: dude, "huge" has a rather different meaing then just mere 10Ad on his passiv lost... And you only get the bonus from your passiv after you got 5 stacks on a target. on whom you will already have used all your cds, except your ult... and 10 less Ad is just a joke :D If they had scrapped it to lets say to only 10 bonus ad at level 1, then i would classify it still only as a decent/normal nerf (you still need to have 5 stacks before anything changes). So "a huge nerf" is rather over the top, specially considering his already HUGE Dmg and dps output and sustain. So dont you worry it really was just a lovetap at best :D
> [{quoted}](name=Lord Desert,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iwulVksg,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2017-01-12T18:39:14.799+0000) > > dude, "huge" has a rather different meaing then just mere 10Ad on his passiv lost... And you only get the bonus from your passiv after you got 5 stacks on a target. on whom you will already have used all your cds, except your ult... and 10 less Ad is just a joke :D > If they had scrapped it to lets say to only 10 bonus ad at level 1, then i would classify it still only as a decent/normal nerf (you still need to have 5 stacks before anything changes). > > So "a huge nerf" is rather over the top, specially considering his already HUGE Dmg and dps output and sustain. So dont you worry it really was just a lovetap at best :D Darius doesnt have huge damage pre noxian might, he only does if you play a squishy.
Kilanost (NA)
: Yup I dont think its a big nerf at all. But peoople are coming out of the woodwork trying to say this is the end of days for Darius. Some dude even made an excel graph trying to show this....but it really didn't prove his point at all....in fact it really hurt it the more i think about it.
> [{quoted}](name=Kilanost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ai3EklTj,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2017-01-12T01:06:49.435+0000) > > Yup I dont think its a big nerf at all. But peoople are coming out of the woodwork trying to say this is the end of days for Darius. Some dude even made an excel graph trying to show this....but it really didn't prove his point at all....in fact it really hurt it the more i think about it. And that thread has gained surprising traction considering how many people on the board suddenly started hating darius (which started after CoC was introduced).
Kilanost (NA)
: The majority of those people were using CoC on riven. In fact, most Rivens I have played against have been using CoC. With the double shields she gets to trade for free. One thing at a time, grasshopper.
> [{quoted}](name=Kilanost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ai3EklTj,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-01-11T23:23:51.933+0000) > > The majority of those people were using CoC on riven. In fact, most Rivens I have played against have been using CoC. With the double shields she gets to trade for free. > > One thing at a time, grasshopper. One thing at a time? Geee, well darius is one of the premier abusers of CoC, why dont we wait to see how CoC nerfs affect him before nerfing him? One thing at a time.
: > [{quoted}](name=SquashCannon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iwulVksg,comment-id=0010000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-12T18:23:14.780+0000) > > "It only nerfs his early and mid" > > Yeah because when I pick darius I'm looking to scale into a vayne level hypercarry... > > Q is to weaken him conditionally (the condition being missing his outer q and only grtting inner q), passive nerf is just a nerf to everything during his max potential. Now you're just making ridiculous comparisons. You're losing some base damage in your early game, and at level 14 you're back to EXACTLY the same damage you were before. At no point did I say you're a scaling hyper carry. Don't compare two different champs that have nothing to do with each other. The condition being you fuck up a Q you could have landed better, and you're "slightly" punished and you proceed to slow them bleed them of their health getting free extra AD while ignoring their armor and can then either smite them for true damage or just walk away and let the bleed win the trade that you could have done "better" on. The missed full Q potential there didn't exactly fuck you up that much.
> [{quoted}](name=Verarticus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iwulVksg,comment-id=00100000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-12T18:31:09.050+0000) > > Now you're just making ridiculous comparisons. You're losing some base damage in your early game, and at level 14 you're back to EXACTLY the same damage you were before. At no point did I say you're a scaling hyper carry. Don't compare two different champs that have nothing to do with each other. > > The condition being you fuck up a Q you could have landed better, and you're "slightly" punished and you proceed to slow them bleed them of their health getting free extra AD while ignoring their armor and can then either smite them for true damage or just walk away and let the bleed win the trade that you could have done "better" on. > > The missed full Q potential there didn't exactly fuck you up that much. Right, and the early and mid is where darius shines the most. "It goes right back to EQUAL at level 14" at that point I'm falling off anyways...
dominusx (EUNE)
: Fiora yes. Riven....i might go with yes but only her shield a little bit.
> [{quoted}](name=dominusx,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=s0VIgHan,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-01-12T09:24:19.361+0000) > > Fiora yes. Riven....i might go with yes but only her shield a little bit. No, if darius got his might reduced, I would want rivens ult buff reverted, thats all.
: > [{quoted}](name=dynikus,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=5AioxEH6,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-01-12T10:54:39.933+0000) > > Fun fact, the english plural form of cactus is actually cactuses. Cacti is the latin plural. Well maybe Darius is Latin?
> [{quoted}](name=Its Not Shacko,realm=OCE,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=5AioxEH6,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-01-12T11:56:41.286+0000) > > Well maybe Darius is Latin? The name darius has persian origin, not latin origin.
: Let's say he's far from being the elephant in the room...
> [{quoted}](name=Tidal Tyrant,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=m3o4x8Li,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-01-11T22:55:36.739+0000) > > Let's say he's far from being the elephant in the room... Lets just say the freaking T rex in the room is courage of the colossus
: One of those nerfs won't even hit good Darius players. (the handle dmg) And the other one only hits him when enraged (5 stacks or successful ult.) Darius was never struggling, colossus just made him show up on the radar a bit more.
> [{quoted}](name=LostFr0st,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=m3o4x8Li,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-01-11T22:56:50.889+0000) > > One of those nerfs won't even hit good Darius players. (the handle dmg) > And the other one only hits him when enraged (5 stacks or successful ult.) > > Darius was never struggling, colossus just made him show up on the radar a bit more. "Only hits him when enraged" you mean when he actually starts to do damage? If riot doesnt like noxian might, they may as well revert the darius rework, pre rework darius had a shit ton more damage pre five stacks, and a lot faster damage too.
: We discussed in call how Jayce is easier to deal with than Darius and the guy ragequit halfway through. That's what I'm referring to.
> [{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=m3o4x8Li,comment-id=0001000000010000,timestamp=2017-01-11T23:49:49.228+0000) > > We discussed in call how Jayce is easier to deal with than Darius and the guy ragequit halfway through. > That's what I'm referring to. If you main the fuck-up child of the juggernaut update then sure darius is more frustrating.
: it's pointless to post here friend, board went from "darius is balanced" to "darius is overpowered" in 2 weeks
> [{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fHnyEivY,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-01-12T17:41:05.389+0000) > > it's pointless to post here friend, board went from "darius is balanced" to "darius is overpowered" in 2 weeks Its such a tragedy. For an entire year, everyone praised darius's design, complaint threads usually got guttered with downvotes, every time, and all of a sudden people think darius is the problem instead of CoC. This board seems to be full of gnats.
: > [{quoted}](name=SquashCannon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iwulVksg,comment-id=00100000,timestamp=2017-01-12T17:57:07.255+0000) > > Thats wrong, darius mains didnt mind the q nerf because it reinforced a counterplay option. The passive nerf is just a nerf to his stats. > > One reinforces darius's intended weakness while keeping his intended strength and another just makes him outright weaker in every scenario possible when he plays right to get his intended strength. Except, again like I said, Darius EXCELS at close range duels so it doesn't change much when people get into a duel since he doesn't really want to use his Q at point blank range anyway. (also once you get at least a phage it's trivially easy to juke into the outer range of your Q then go back in during a duel) And also no. That's not what that second nerf looks like to me. It only nerfs his early to mid game, when his strength is really the problem. His late game is the same strength and only gets the Q "nerf". Again, the point is to weaken him. Not reinforce a false idea.
> [{quoted}](name=Verarticus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iwulVksg,comment-id=001000000000,timestamp=2017-01-12T18:19:05.852+0000) > > Except, again like I said, Darius EXCELS at close range duels so it doesn't change much when people get into a duel since he doesn't really want to use his Q at point blank range anyway. (also once you get at least a phage it's trivially easy to juke into the outer range of your Q then go back in during a duel) > > And also no. That's not what that second nerf looks like to me. It only nerfs his early to mid game, when his strength is really the problem. His late game is the same strength and only gets the Q "nerf". > > Again, the point is to weaken him. Not reinforce a false idea. "It only nerfs his early and mid" Yeah because when I pick darius I'm looking to scale into a vayne level hypercarry... Q is to weaken him conditionally (the condition being missing his outer q and only grtting inner q), passive nerf is just a nerf to everything during his max potential.
: Isn't the whole point of a nerf to weaken a champ? Every Darius main is happy with the Q nerfs because it doesn't actually matter that much. "Oh. I don't hit as much with my Q when they're next to me? Oh well, they're now in my range and thus not kiting me and an easy kill now 9 times outa 10." That doesn't make him weaker, that just gives the illusion that melee can duel him. Something had to go, he can't be allowed to have auto trade wins, good sustain, and good damage all while building a cleaver then straight tank.
> [{quoted}](name=Verarticus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iwulVksg,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2017-01-12T17:28:42.617+0000) > > Isn't the whole point of a nerf to weaken a champ? Every Darius main is happy with the Q nerfs because it doesn't actually matter that much. "Oh. I don't hit as much with my Q when they're next to me? Oh well, they're now in my range and thus not kiting me and an easy kill now 9 times outa 10." That doesn't make him weaker, that just gives the illusion that melee can duel him. > > Something had to go, he can't be allowed to have auto trade wins, good sustain, and good damage all while building a cleaver then straight tank. Thats wrong, darius mains didnt mind the q nerf because it reinforced a counterplay option. The passive nerf is just a nerf to his stats. One reinforces darius's intended weakness while keeping his intended strength and another just makes him outright weaker in every scenario possible when he plays right to get his intended strength.
Ralanr (NA)
: Remember how Taric was originally intended as a support and top lane was an off role? You know how Riot balances champions around their intended role? Warwick was intended for the jungle. Taric was not intended for top.
> [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fZQrpuV5,comment-id=000100010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-12T17:32:02.100+0000) > > Remember how Taric was originally intended as a support and top lane was an off role? You know how Riot balances champions around their intended role? > > Warwick was intended for the jungle. Taric was not intended for top. Remember how riot said they supported his top lane viability and would try to keep it alive? Well it didnt, his kit got changed to the point where top taric died. Also, as someone pointed out, he was meant to be a bruiser but ended up being a good support since his heal let him survive poke and his targeted stun had a ton of power especially as skillshots became more and more prevalent.
: Wow, I didn't know op.gg had that kind of information. Thanks for sharing that, I stand corrected, let's see how Darius performs after the CoC nerfs.
> [{quoted}](name=404 shitlord,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EiQXMZtG,comment-id=000000010002000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-12T17:02:38.954+0000) > > Wow, I didn't know op.gg had that kind of information. Thanks for sharing that, I stand corrected, let's see how Darius performs after the CoC nerfs. I think there is something wrong with champion.gg. Usually its reliable, but if you look at it logically, how can champion.gg say that darius has only a 51.9% win rate when his CoC win rate is above 53% and grasp at a whackass 59%?
Ralanr (NA)
: Still has a stun, heal, and armor scaling. Now he just has better and more noticeable teamfight utility. Really it feels like a modernization of his kit. Especially when comparing to how Warwick's rework is going.
> [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fZQrpuV5,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2017-01-12T16:58:21.221+0000) > > Still has a stun, heal, and armor scaling. Now he just has better and more noticeable teamfight utility. > > Really it feels like a modernization of his kit. Especially when comparing to how Warwick's rework is going. There are two ways I can address your response here. I'll start with the simulation response. Try taking warwick jungle, he didnt change much right hes still a jungler. Try taking taric top lane, the rework killed it off.
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SquashCannon

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