: > [{quoted}](name=Storren,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BvyfIYEb,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-02-12T07:00:13.954+0000) > > True tanks don't have HP shred except Zac. The problem is the class of bruiser. You can build minimal damage and escalate to tank status by building all defenses. Bruisers should have to build more than just a Cleaver or something of that sort to do the damage they can do if that makes sense. Tanks in general or if you pull up the tank tab don't really have HP shred. Their shred also isn't usually really spamy either. > > https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/227984552046362625/280231368330444800/unknown.png the bruisers who are able to do this usually have clear gameplay counters. my guess is youre talking about juggernauts. the idea is, that juggernauts are tanky melee carries. however, without the help of an actual tank and support on their team, they usually have it difficult to get in melee range of their opponents and stick. theyre the antithesis to marksmen. where marksmen are squishy ranged, and often mobile carries who are only effective when they manage to stay out of melee range and kite, and need the support of their team to keep distance while carrying, juggernauts have the opposite playstile. theyre only really effective when they can get into the middle of your team, and survive/stay there. if a juggernaut makes it into melee range of your backline, you royally fucked up, or your team got simply outplayed.
You're right but he said tanks so I was just talking about tanks in general. Just saying Bruisers are supposed to hurt either way. I know they have counter play but I failed to mention it because I wanted to keep it short lol
: I did not say it was worse
I know I was trying to enhance what you was saying was all
Akrid415 (NA)
: I don't see how any mage player can complain about maw/edge when they have an invulnerability item {{item:3157}} along with champs like {{champion:90}} who constantly gets spell shields. Or {{champion:13}} who can stun with the click of a button. Or {{champion:50}} who has a stun plus clicks r to heal and deal aoe damage. Or {{champion:134}} with her stun to insta r death. I think you get the point.
You have to realize that all those champs have 0 mobility and what do assassins get mobility while only one of those champs Its beyond strong on and that's swain cause he heals off it. SYndra has to hit her combo at least it takes skill to combo. You trade CC for mobility so why you making a point about spell shields when legit 2 of those champ are going through constant nerfs and ryze is getting looked into. Every one of those get nerfed its not like Zhonyas Made a meta. Edge of the Night is legit the meta as of right changed a whole game with just on item that combos off more pen like Duskblade. I have stated. Zhonyas active is great it can dodge spells and stuff and damage. The point is Edge has changed the game into this lethality meta. The stats you get on Edge of the Night, do not compare to the stats on the Zhonyas. You get great offensive stats with decent defensive capabilities and ghost blade makes that shoot through the roof due to movement speed. All I am saying is the stats it provides needs a nerf the the ability to spam a free banshees viel with a more constant refresh. The stats of offensive power for its good defensive stats needs changed either the damage needs to go down, or the active needs a nerf on time. Never once said Zhonyas was bad but It falters in comparison to Edge.
: [Champion Concept] Calus, the Dusk's Shadows
I see you have this shadows on the Map typed in the ult but I do not see any where that creates shadows. Maybe make that apart of his or her passive?
: Champion Concept- Lira, the Snowball Fighter.
The passive alone is pretty much a teemo blind dart with no mana cost. That alone doesn't help make the champion unique. Besides that it seams legit
: Let's talk about Lethality... Again..
The problem is Edge of the NIght really. It gives so much offensive stats and has a defensive utility that is pretty spamable. People say zhonyas is broken but heres what I think people forget. The highest Ad item in the game Is Blood Thirster at 75. Edge of the night doesn't even require a bf sword but gives you 60 15 pen 35 mr and a decently good active that stops imitations to where only a 15 second window is available. When you finish the item while Dusk blade has a bf sword yet gives 65.. seams kind of bull to me and gives penetration with defensive capabilities. Then mages have Zhoynas which is supposed to be like maw for bruisers and Edge for tanks. The highest ap item is DC at 125 yet Zhonyas gives you only 75 10 cd and 45 armor at a similar price to edge of the night. Yes you are paying more for a great Active but the active on Edge of the Night and combined with ghost blade give you so much defensive capabilities while having amazing offensive stats that you feel beaten before the fight even starts. I think the solution relies in nerfing the offensive stats of ghost blade and Edge so you don't have 60 ad with the same utility. The actives gives you defense capabilities and reposition potential that makes you use your gap closers to keep up with them and kill them. While Zhonyas can be used to grant time and let your team help you or cooldowns for your moves. The stats it gives is very incomparable, just way better offense stats while having a pretty decent active. I may sound like I am repeating a lot but its just I want to get my point acrossed.
: {{item:3814}} while similar is not {{item:3102}}
Yet does more for attack damage focused champions and can use it more often with minimal cooldown and the penetration helps with the right clicking
Storren (NA)
: > Well a passive as powerful as a second life from death must have major draw backs right? How the design of the revival thing isn't bad its in a decent spot. The rest of this post I agree when he loses that attack speed steroid he feels really weak. The W is all about management so using the W at optimal times is how Aatrox complexity kicks in. I just feel when he revives that he should lose a Red bar which is the blood well and keep a white bar which is attack speed and only falls out of combat. This alone might be just enough to give him strength to compete. Yeah that's the trick with Aatrox, He has little usage for his empowered offensive skill and it feels bad in my eyes. If the W instead of hurting you had a passive that stored damage you absorbed from opponents then after a threshold healed him or empowered his auto attacks based off the damage he absorbed then you could activate it to heal himself but lose the offensive stats might help with the champions lack of damage but fit his champions design. Lest I would think so
Plus this would be a difference from like xins healing auto attack which would imply uniqueness to him
: > [{quoted}](name=Storren,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=K39iN6E6,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-02-12T07:05:20.199+0000) > > Well a passive as powerful as a second life from death must have major draw backs right? How the design of the revival thing isn't bad its in a decent spot. The rest of this post I agree when he loses that attack speed steroid he feels really weak. The W is all about management so using the W at optimal times is how Aatrox complexity kicks in. I just feel when he revives that he should lose a Red bar which is the blood well and keep a white bar which is attack speed and only falls out of combat. This alone might be just enough to give him strength to compete. His W is great in lane In teamfights it's fucking retarded and you have to keep the sustain up or you die more instantly than you already do
> Well a passive as powerful as a second life from death must have major draw backs right? How the design of the revival thing isn't bad its in a decent spot. The rest of this post I agree when he loses that attack speed steroid he feels really weak. The W is all about management so using the W at optimal times is how Aatrox complexity kicks in. I just feel when he revives that he should lose a Red bar which is the blood well and keep a white bar which is attack speed and only falls out of combat. This alone might be just enough to give him strength to compete. Yeah that's the trick with Aatrox, He has little usage for his empowered offensive skill and it feels bad in my eyes. If the W instead of hurting you had a passive that stored damage you absorbed from opponents then after a threshold healed him or empowered his auto attacks based off the damage he absorbed then you could activate it to heal himself but lose the offensive stats might help with the champions lack of damage but fit his champions design. Lest I would think so
: Edge of Night's active might be a little too available. Disable an opponent's ability to deal with you entirely if they have one way to catch you before you get to them. And you can do it twice in a minute. You also don't seem to really pay for getting it, since triple lethality is a desirable end. And the whole Lethality ADC is best ADC thing probably won't hold up as a good game state for long. But Zhonya's is kind of its own tier. The general idea of Edge of Night doesn't feel out of place. The whole, Zhonyas compares to Maw, and Edge can be better than Maw so Edge is bad, doesn't hold up. Zhonya's and Maw really don't parallel that well.
Here's the issue I see with it. the highest ad item you can get is blood thirstier at 75. edge of the night gives 60 while dusk blade gives 65 and you build way more damage into dusk blade. So why is an item that takes a bf sword give 65 when Edge takes minimal damage components gives 60, utility and penetration. Zhonyas only gives 1 utility for a way longer cool down. Yes Invulnerability is better than blocking 1 move but the stats that it gives is crap in comparison to edge of the night that also provides utility and a lot of offensive stats. Now how does that make sense because if they were on par in stats Zhonyas would be about 100 ap or 110. Which is broken but still that's the equivalent to the stats that Edge provides with utility. Yet zhonyas utility comes at a way higher price. That's my issue with this item
: Just playing Aatrox once and I saw
Well a passive as powerful as a second life from death must have major draw backs right? How the design of the revival thing isn't bad its in a decent spot. The rest of this post I agree when he loses that attack speed steroid he feels really weak. The W is all about management so using the W at optimal times is how Aatrox complexity kicks in. I just feel when he revives that he should lose a Red bar which is the blood well and keep a white bar which is attack speed and only falls out of combat. This alone might be just enough to give him strength to compete.
: HOW TO MAKE TANKS MORE BALANCED!
True tanks don't have HP shred except Zac. The problem is the class of bruiser. You can build minimal damage and escalate to tank status by building all defenses. Bruisers should have to build more than just a Cleaver or something of that sort to do the damage they can do if that makes sense. Tanks in general or if you pull up the tank tab don't really have HP shred. Their shred also isn't usually really spamy either. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/227984552046362625/280231368330444800/unknown.png
: {{item:3157}} {{item:3151}} {{item:3027}} {{item:3116}} {{item:3020}} {{item:3089}} Base armor - 85 Runes - 9 Items - 45 Armor = 139 = 58% damage reduction Base hp - 1900 Items - 1100 hp = 3000 = 7140 effective hp {{item:3156}} {{item:3814}} {{item:3111}} {{item:3139}} {{item:3071}} {{item:3036}} Base MR - 53 Runes - 27 Items - 140 MR = 220 = 69% damage reduction Base hp - 1900 items - 300 HP = 2200 = 7097 effective hp Seems fair to me. Before anyone says something about armor penetration remember that this is a team game. The assassin has no armor with this build so they will get absolutely shredded by AD while the mage has more health to take magic damage from the assassin's team.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/227984552046362625/280228488974303232/unknown.png This is what I mean. Can build Edge of the Night go full tank and be just fine his damage was 40k some how as well. This why this item is a problem just shines higher than any other item in the game. Not saying what you are posting is wrong its just situations like this. Can burst people down absorb a lot of damage.
Rioter Comments
: Read the item's tooltip. "UNIQUE Passive - Last Whisper: +30% _bonus_ armor penetration"
Example: 30% armor reduction multiplies the target's armor to 70%, so a target with 20 base armor and 40 bonus armor will be reduced to 42 armor ((20 × 0.7) + (40 × 0.7) = 42). http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Armor_Penetration I found this on tthat website so maybe this is true?
: Read the item's tooltip. "UNIQUE Passive - Last Whisper: +30% _bonus_ armor penetration"
Thought that meant if you have 7 from the mastery tree that meant here is 30% more. Not hey penetrate only bonus armor pen
: Edge of night cannot be used if you are already in combat. It doesn't really need a double edged sword because it has a clause that makes it so it cannot be used if jumped on or if you start a fight without it on. As for maw it's strong but it does have a decent cooldown. it's hard to compare the items just because their use cases are so different.
NOt always you just cant take damage while channeling it
: But, like you said its a team games so they can get away with build this cause its not 1 dude versus your team and if that build takes out 2 people(In most cases it does) it will tilt your 5v5 to a 3v4. The base mr of that second build is 130 which in turn gives you that in shield for the Maw.
also you have to remember you say 58% damage reduction yet penetration takes a factor in that argument and most people don't use black cleaver or lastwhisper with that build theyd run ghsotblade
: Last Whisper penetrates bonus armor while Void Staff penetrates total MR. Also, different gold values of AD and AP are on the items.
Where you find that at? It doesn't say it on the item so I always thought it was total armor.
: there are more armor items to stack then MR items to stack, therefore less need for power on certain pen items... I think
Yeah but even with runes and Masteries you can get more armor pen than magic pen. You may be right but I don't know was just wondering that. I guess the most mr on an item you can get is 70 but you can get 100 armor from thorn and 90 from frozen so I guess you're right
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Storren,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VUkGRb9O,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-02-09T03:50:23.544+0000) > > Yes that's true but right now even ADC's are building this item which they do come with range, yes no CC but range is there and to me that's an issue. The item was meant for assassins but its sooo good that ADC's are even building it Yeah i've seen it on a lot of lucian, varus, and miss fortune players. It's really more of an issue of riot balancing these items around the changed ad assassins and going fuck it when thinking about the ADC side of these items. Melee only would definitely fix these issues but armor pen builds on ADCs do have some trade offs.
I agree also armor pen works on basic attacks vs champions but does magic pen work on basic attacks vs champions? I don't think so but I had this question and never put a post about it XD
: Zyhona's, if you activate it with no allies on the battle field, can get your surrounded and a easy target. It is a double edge sword. There have been times where I played Poppy and Q'd where a mage was after activating it. The very second Zhyona's ended, Poppy's Q reactivated and killed them, leaving no room for retaliation or flash. It is in safer positions like behind your towers to save yourself from a Ziggs ult or in team fights where your team will focus down on whoever was trying to get the mage will that be as you described. There is no double edge sword with these items. I mean sure, from Maw you can pop it from pocking before going ham but that is more in laning situations where you can poke. Just fighting and trying to burst, that does saves lives.
Yeah that's what I was trying to get at thank you Ark Sorcerer
: you literally have an invincibility button and you are complaining that mages don't have enough defensive options? >15 penetration, 200 Hp, 80 ap, 20 armor for I don't know 3200 gold that when you activate it reflects a physical attack or spell at the target? This item would be broken.
Yes I know just an Idea doesn't have to be that thing, I'm not complaining at all that was just a simple question. Like ARk Sorcerer said its a double edge sword. That new item almost seams willy nilly can be used whenever. plus its has a 90 second downtime while Edge of the night has 15 if used fully or 30 at the worst.
: I think you mean mercurials not QSS. Also it is hard to put a value on invincibility on demand vs a spellshield that must be used before you are in combat and a shield that only comes up once you hit 30% hp. Assassins dont normally build mercurials but it is still there and a decent active. Mages don't need as many defensive options because they come with range and on demand CC where most melee AD don't have access to.
Yes that's true but right now even ADC's are building this item which they do come with range, yes no CC but range is there and to me that's an issue. The item was meant for assassins but its sooo good that ADC's are even building it
Rioter Comments
Storren (NA)
: Grey WarWick
Yeah I remember when it was in the store to buy for like 975 but I was just 15 with no job back then so I oculdnt obtain it when I really wanted it but wish it would come back
: So about the Grey Warwick skin ...
I was a player back when the Skin was released in the store and when I first started playing I didn't want to spend money on the game because I didn't know if I wanted to keep playing or not. Well it turned out I did and that WarWick was one of my favorite champions so when I went to go buy it when I got the cash it got removed from the store sadly. Well they had the referral rewards and I tried so hard to get it but never could. Then apparently they made it easier to get which I didn't know and missed out on that to sadly. SO personally as a player as old as I am that still loves the game and continues to play and be active in the community as much as I can and support Riot with tons of money that I worked hard for, I agree it should be aloud in the game for some players to buy. I'm not sure about all because that keeps the "rare" aspect healthy which is fun and nice but if they made and event and called it "Classical Rift" or even Twisted treeline where you have to do something and get a reward like money that you can cash in the store to buy them like influence points but only for this event only you can get them. Then I think it would be something cool and fun way to obtain something to use in the game permanently.
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Salron (NA)
: You should really space out some of that paragraph, It's painful to read Personally I don't find emote spamming all that annoying, but iirc, you can hide it by typing "/ignore (summoner name)" Though obviously that's pretty hard to do for someone who has accents in their name, like me
ty for the info on ignoring htem helps alot
: Opposite Skin Line to Blood Moon
Could call them Solar Eclipse skins
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Storren (NA)
: So by what you are saying below that tank and Bruiser are pretty much the same thing period therefore bruiser is tank? "Tank Gragas: engages with his ER and then if they don't kill him by this time constantly uses his CC to foil enemies plan. Bruiser Gragas: basically the same thing that tank Gragas does but he is more likely to die in the process but bring overall more pain."
wouldn't that mean they shouldn't really do damage, or tanks should do more damage then? Just the whole bruiser thing is ackward
Octahedron (EUNE)
: ***
So by what you are saying below that tank and Bruiser are pretty much the same thing period therefore bruiser is tank? "Tank Gragas: engages with his ER and then if they don't kill him by this time constantly uses his CC to foil enemies plan. Bruiser Gragas: basically the same thing that tank Gragas does but he is more likely to die in the process but bring overall more pain."
Octahedron (EUNE)
: ***
I guess I didn't see the E W combo as Brawler but that does make sense, I was only asking because I had a 50 min game where everyone was full build and myself included had MR and he just q R back in to the q and blew up like 3 people. Just figured if you want a brawler shouldn't he only excel mostly at the tank role and not the mage assassin role? Mean its ok that he can play that way but to me if he is this brawler which sounds like a tank that means he should be Rated like S or A status and if you do go mage youd preform at about a B status if that makes sense. That's why when I look at I feel he shouldn't excel that hard as a mage with tank stats you understand what I am saying? This post isn't only for ragas, its for any tank really like Zac or Sej. Just to me if you are meant to be a tank you should be exceptionally good at tanking right? Then if you try to go glass cannon build you should be good enough to do it alright but not better than champs that were designed for it so that way you have diversity but not overall dominance. That is what I cant understand why he can do it so well and that's what I cant understand so if light would be casted upon that so I could understand it that would be nice so I can have a more rounded mindset.
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Storren

Level 30 (NA)
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