: > [{quoted}](name=Subdue,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=k1fETiew,comment-id=000a000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-19T16:58:41.533+0000) > > If high elo players are currently likely to dodge if they don't get their preferred pick since they can switch to another account, then wouldn't preventing smurfing decrease the queue times in high elo by forcing the high elo players to play on their main accounts, thereby increasing the effective population at any given time? > > Also, does it matter if the population of diamond were to drop by 40-60% if that 40-60% consists of smurfs? It's not like someone can play on multiple accounts at the same time, so the disappearance of smurfs would have no effect on queue times, except to decrease them as explained above. They would be less inclinded to play because a lot of them games would feel forced and awful to play. The mentality of high elo is a lot more different than lower. Also the lower population of alts would mean an increase in wait time as well because dodges would have higher impact. If I dodge a 100% troll game I can no longer requeue as an alt. I have to sit there for the full 30. So that takes me out of the queue entirely.
> [{quoted}](name=Emelie Cauchemar,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=k1fETiew,comment-id=000a0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-19T20:01:59.126+0000) > > They would be less inclinded to play because a lot of them games would feel forced and awful to play. The mentality of high elo is a lot more different than lower. Also the lower population of alts would mean an increase in wait time as well because dodges would have higher impact. If I dodge a 100% troll game I can no longer requeue as an alt. I have to sit there for the full 30. So that takes me out of the queue entirely. Seems to me like the problem is less not being able to smurf and more needing to deter trolling. That said, someone banning your pick isn't "trolling." Maybe banning people's picks happens in high elo, but it happens in competitive/professional play too. It's not a valid reason to dodge. What we probably need are faster response times reports of trolling in champ select (MIDORIFEED type stuff), and higher penalties for dodging. Combined with not being able to smurf, higher penalties for unwanted behavior should have people playing out more games rather than cherrypicking only the matchups they want.
: My boyfriend just got permabanned for defending me from someone trying to flame me (cause I’m bad at the game) and he didn’t use severe cursing, slurs, or homophobia. Also had only ever had one two week ban before this no warnings. ? It makes no sense as a fiction when most people can be as mean as they want no problem but if you happen to get “caught” the one time you speak up, you’re done.
> [{quoted}](name=Lokiijuice,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7xjAjBE9,comment-id=00020000000200010000,timestamp=2019-09-19T17:19:56.360+0000) > > My boyfriend just got permabanned for defending me from someone trying to flame me (cause I’m bad at the game) and he didn’t use severe cursing, slurs, or homophobia. Also had only ever had one two week ban before this no warnings. ? It makes no sense as a fiction when most people can be as mean as they want no problem but if you happen to get “caught” the one time you speak up, you’re done. If he got a 2 week ban without any chat restrictions, he was either severely toxic in a few games, or he said a zero tolerance word/phrase. This automatically bumps you penalty level to 3, with 4 being the permanent ban. At penalty level 3, even very light toxicity can push you over the edge. This is how the system is currently setup. While I agree that zero tolerance phrases should be penalized, and I believe that penalties should escalate for repeat offenders, I think this unique interaction between a ZT penalties and the penalty levels should be fixed, and I had a pretty lengthy post about it from a year ago. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/xAAcRMo4-the-incompatibility-of-zero-tolerance-with-the-tiered-penalty-system
: If you dont spend money on the game that really has no affect on anyone. Most people once they lose their main accounts just stop spending any money period. Although I will add this New accounts get three rune pages, over 12000 BE and upto two perm skin shards before level 15. Quite frankly if League had a system like DOTA where they shove you in video game hell I would be a lot better with my comms BUT they dont. Banning still allows you to play the same game modes with the same champions as usual with no real affect whatsoever.
> [{quoted}](name=Hateful Redditor,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=YOHIQkqV,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-09-19T17:10:26.449+0000) > > If you dont spend money on the game that really has no affect on anyone. Most people once they lose their main accounts just stop spending any money period. Although I will add this > > New accounts get three rune pages, over 12000 BE and upto two perm skin shards before level 15. Quite frankly if League had a system like DOTA where they shove you in video game hell I would be a lot better with my comms BUT they dont. Banning still allows you to play the same game modes with the same champions as usual with no real affect whatsoever. Haven't you heard? DOTA is banning players now. Also, Dota requires a phone number, so smurfing is much more difficult/expensive. I agree with you though, League should follow suit and crack down on smurfing.
: Fastest way to get off a chat restriction?
Sounds like a good way to get permanently banned.
: > [{quoted}](name=Karunamon,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=k1fETiew,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2019-09-19T16:02:35.011+0000) > > Why isn't this a problem in DOTA? Once you reach where you're supposed to be in the ladder, you cease climbing until your skill improves. That's how ladders work. > > Don't we have autofill to keep queue times reasonable? Isn't high elo supposed to entail some kind of bragging rights? Dia+ isn't for casuals. I don't think you caught what I said lol. High high elo players queue into an extremely small population and because of that, if they say, can only play the game at 5-6 am? Not only are they waiting 30+ minutes for a game. If anyone on their friends list ((which most of them have eachother added)) see that they other is in champ select too, they will just outright target ban your champs. So, saaay you're an Ahri main? Well, now you're effectively at half capacity and have to play a champ you're not near as effective at. So, now you're going to play a 30+ minute wait time game to be . . . target banned. Make matters worse, you're an Ahri main streamer and your stream really only wants to watch you play Ahri. You'd usually save face and dodge because you can go play on an alternate account that's slightly lower mmr. But, if you dodge now, you could be waiting upwards to an hour to play a game you might target banned yet again in. Also, you work all the time now and can only get a game or two in? Too bad though, it's 7:30 now and gotta get ready for work. Now your mmr tanks due to how high elo decay works and you're officially D1 again. Making it so you can only have 1 account will honestly just screw the streaming + high elo community. It also makes it a lot easier to "troll" people. They know you really don't want to dodge because of time constraints, and so if you don't get the role you want you can threaten to make the game a terrible terrible time. Yeah, you can be reported and all of that for going something dumb like Kat jungle, but it's technically not punishable and you just wasted everyones time + LP. But at the same time, if you truly have nothing to lose ((like a stream, or competitive integrity)) Why would you care? So long as you say nothing you can't be punished, and if someone else gets mad at you? You can potentially take away their only account. There is no true downside to you passive trolling, and only stuff to gain because you're taking out your own direct competition via bans lol. Let's not forget the population of diamond would effectively drop by 40-60% ((Yes, that's how many smurfs are in diamond. It's kind of ridiculous.))
> [{quoted}](name=Emelie Cauchemar,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=k1fETiew,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2019-09-19T16:16:51.017+0000) > > I don't think you caught what I said lol. > > High high elo players queue into an extremely small population and because of that, if they say, can only play the game at 5-6 am? Not only are they waiting 30+ minutes for a game. If anyone on their friends list ((which most of them have eachother added)) see that they other is in champ select too, they will just outright target ban your champs. So, saaay you're an Ahri main? Well, now you're effectively at half capacity and have to play a champ you're not near as effective at. So, now you're going to play a 30+ minute wait time game to be . . . target banned. Make matters worse, you're an Ahri main streamer and your stream really only wants to watch you play Ahri. You'd usually save face and dodge because you can go play on an alternate account that's slightly lower mmr. But, if you dodge now, you could be waiting upwards to an hour to play a game you might target banned yet again in. Also, you work all the time now and can only get a game or two in? Too bad though, it's 7:30 now and gotta get ready for work. Now your mmr tanks due to how high elo decay works and you're officially D1 again. > > Making it so you can only have 1 account will honestly just screw the streaming + high elo community. It also makes it a lot easier to "troll" people. They know you really don't want to dodge because of time constraints, and so if you don't get the role you want you can threaten to make the game a terrible terrible time. Yeah, you can be reported and all of that for going something dumb like Kat jungle, but it's technically not punishable and you just wasted everyones time + LP. But at the same time, if you truly have nothing to lose ((like a stream, or competitive integrity)) Why would you care? So long as you say nothing you can't be punished, and if someone else gets mad at you? You can potentially take away their only account. There is no true downside to you passive trolling, and only stuff to gain because you're taking out your own direct competition via bans lol. > > Let's not forget the population of diamond would effectively drop by 40-60% ((Yes, that's how many smurfs are in diamond. It's kind of ridiculous.)) If high elo players are currently likely to dodge if they don't get their preferred pick since they can switch to another account, then wouldn't preventing smurfing decrease the queue times in high elo by forcing the high elo players to play on their main accounts, thereby increasing the effective population at any given time? Also, does it matter if the population of diamond were to drop by 40-60% if that 40-60% consists of smurfs? It's not like someone can play on multiple accounts at the same time, so the disappearance of smurfs would have no effect on queue times, except to decrease them as explained above.
Subdue (NA)
: The Incompatibility of Zero Tolerance with the Tiered Penalty System
It's been a year, but this is still relevant.
: No you definitely have to be nice. Speaking as someone who has been chat restricted on multiple accounts you should just be nice or not type.
> [{quoted}](name=Niggel Wessom,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7xjAjBE9,comment-id=000200000002,timestamp=2019-09-19T07:37:30.176+0000) > > No you definitely have to be nice. Speaking as someone who has been chat restricted on multiple accounts you should just be nice or not type. Speaking as someone who has had an account in good standing with 0 penalties across thousands of games since Season 1, you do not have to be nice. You have to be neutral, and you can slip up and be a jerk once in a while without receiving a penalty.
: Permabanned five minutes after game ended, 1 game referenced.
Yea, your log does show toxicity, and as you were warned when you had your 14 day ban, any toxicity results in a permanent ban. I do agree with you getting escalated to a 14 day ban for a zero tolerance phrase shouldn't immediately put your account in permaban risk for normal behavior. That said, the word you used is a zero tolerance phrase, and what you should have done after your 14 day ban was research what exactly would qualify to get you permanently banned. I made a post about this a year ago, but unfortunately nothing has changed in that regard. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/xAAcRMo4-the-incompatibility-of-zero-tolerance-with-the-tiered-penalty-system?show=flat&page=6
: > [{quoted}](name=Subdue,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7xjAjBE9,comment-id=0002000000010000,timestamp=2019-09-19T07:26:22.729+0000) > > You didn't post the logs so there's no way to verify. However, just because you haven't been penalized does not mean you've "been obedient to the rules." Like I said, the system is VERY lenient and weighs both frequency and severity of toxicity. You can be neutral most of the time, and occasionally an asshole, and never receive a punishment. That doesn't mean you haven't been breaking the rules, you just haven't been breaking them enough to receive a punishment. You can submit a ticket and they'll tell you how many times you've been validly reported. I understand, but no chat restrictions at all? I've never afk'd or inted im pretty sure, everything ive done has been chat based, so I guess I just don't understand why I havent got a chat restriction but a 2 week suspension and permaban are on the table
> [{quoted}](name=cp dubspol,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7xjAjBE9,comment-id=00020000000100000000,timestamp=2019-09-19T07:29:21.968+0000) > > I understand, but no chat restrictions at all? I've never afk'd or inted im pretty sure, everything ive done has been chat based, so I guess I just don't understand why I havent got a chat restriction but a 2 week suspension and permaban are on the table Post your logs. And yes, that word is one of the zero tolerance phrases.
: Re-read, I made a lengthy edit.
> [{quoted}](name=caffeine abuser,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7xjAjBE9,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-09-19T07:16:11.396+0000) > > Re-read, I made a lengthy edit. Like I said, the consideration is in the leniency. Once in a while someone will say something that really pisses you off, and you may give into the compulsion to argue back at them. You don't get penalized for doing this ONCE IN A WHILE, unless your idea of arguing back is throwing around slurs or advocating self harm. However, if it happens all the time, you absolutely deserve a penalty, because you're contributing to a bad experience not just for yourself and the person you're arguing with, but for everyone who has to listen to your bitching and moaning.
: > [{quoted}](name=Subdue,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7xjAjBE9,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-09-19T07:13:44.608+0000) > > What do you consider a "small amount of understanding?" As it is, the system is VERY lenient. You don't have to be nice or communicative. You only have to be neutral and you'll never receive a penalty. And furthermore, because it takes into account frequency and severity, occasional outbursts where you go on tilt won't get you penalized either, unless your outburst is very severe, including racial slurs, calls to self harm, and other zero tolerance behavior. So, to recap, you don't have to be nice, and you can even be an asshat once in a while, and you'll never get punished. To get punished you either have to be severely toxic in a few games, or consistently toxic in many many games. I would beg to differ, this is the only my second instance of punishment from riot in my four year runtime, other than that ive been obedient to the rules. Riot knows their game is tilting and aggravating at times, so more indepth analysis of a game where you decide the fate of a long running account would be appreciated.
> [{quoted}](name=cp dubspol,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7xjAjBE9,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2019-09-19T07:20:10.182+0000) > > I would beg to differ, this is the only my second instance of punishment from riot in my four year runtime, other than that ive been obedient to the rules. Riot knows their game is tilting and aggravating at times, so more indepth analysis of a game where you decide the fate of a long running account would be appreciated. You didn't post the logs so there's no way to verify. However, just because you haven't been penalized does not mean you've "been obedient to the rules." Like I said, the system is VERY lenient and weighs both frequency and severity of toxicity. You can be neutral most of the time, and occasionally an asshole, and never receive a punishment. That doesn't mean you haven't been breaking the rules, you just haven't been breaking them enough to receive a punishment. You can submit a ticket and they'll tell you how many times you've been validly reported.
: Meanwhile, over in DOTA land:
Cool, now recommend that Riot require a phone number to maintain an account, and see how fast you get downvoted to oblivion. A reliable way to minimize smurfing is essentially to applying any sort of permanent penalty, and unfortunately the league community, or at least the boards, are very against that.
: I feel that as a company, if they make something like this: https://tilttypes.riotgames.com/en-us/p/2 ...and don't exercise at least some small amount of understanding when it comes to situations where someone is under attack from teammates and retaliates, they are just blowing smoke up our asses. It's obvious from this page that Riot KNOWS some people feel an inescapable, deep-rooted, psychologically-driven compulsion to defend themselves from what are perceived to be personal attacks, so there should be at least some small consideration of the circumstances surrounding situations like this. I KNOW it's against all these rules and blah blah blah, that's why I mute all, because I don't want to lose my account. But why do I have to lose the primary communication channel with my team just because some people can't take as well as they dish out? Can't go AFK too cool off, going AFK is against the rules. Can't leave the game, leaving the game is against the rules. Can't fight fire with fire, flaming is against the rules. **The rules are biased against a portion of the community large enough that an entire page was made to describe us. **Refusing to communicate is against the rules too, technically, but FORTUNATELY that one isn't enforced, or there would not be a single "barbarian" playing this game.
> [{quoted}](name=caffeine abuser,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7xjAjBE9,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-09-19T07:08:17.754+0000) > > I feel that as a company, if they make something like this: > > https://tilttypes.riotgames.com/en-us/p/2 > > ...and don't exercise at least some small amount of understanding when it comes to situations where someone is under attack from teammates and retaliates, they are just blowing smoke up our asses. What do you consider a "small amount of understanding?" As it is, the system is VERY lenient. You don't have to be nice or communicative. You only have to be neutral and you'll never receive a penalty. And furthermore, because it takes into account frequency and severity, occasional outbursts where you go on tilt won't get you penalized either, unless your outburst is very severe, including racial slurs, calls to self harm, and other zero tolerance behavior. So, to recap, you don't have to be nice, and you can even be an asshat once in a while, and you'll never get punished. To get punished you either have to be severely toxic in a few games, or consistently toxic in many many games.
: Does permanently banning players really help your game?
Posts like this one with toxic players throwing a tantrum over getting penalized for being toxic feed by faith in Riot's system. Thanks Riot!
: I make more money than NA pros without a salary or long-term sponsorship.
Random unverified self-brag aside, the very premise of this article is flawed. You're comparing the earnings of someone who is Top 5 in Tekken to the _average_ LCS player. Faker, for example, nets 2.5M / Year as salary from SKT. Furthermore, you're comparing LCS _salary_ to the Tekken overall compensation. This is especially blatant when you take into account advertising for your calculation. https://www.thewealthrecord.com/celebs-bio-wiki-salary-earnings-2019-2020-2021-2022-2023-2024-2025/other/faker-net-worth/
Jansuo (EUNE)
: Not Even As a Computer Science Graduate Can I Understand The Way The Remake System is Programmed
https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/player-behavior/play-games-matter/remake The rules seem pretty straightforward.
: Even complete strangers should go into a ranked game with the intention to win with their team, if not they shouldn't be playing ranked and in all honesty there should be some kind of punishment for not playing to win.
> [{quoted}](name=Wayward Son,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3RXAkbmw,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-09-15T17:43:45.927+0000) > > Even complete strangers should go into a ranked game with the intention to win with their team, if not they shouldn't be playing ranked and in all honesty there should be some kind of punishment for not playing to win. See, this is where there is a massive disconnect between your premise and what is actually happening. Most people go into the game with the intention to win. But every single game, EVERY SINGLE GAME, one team outplays the other. And because of the snowbally nature of the game, more often than not small victories at the beginning grow into bigger victories later on. The OP is complaining that people aren't playing the way he wants them to play, that's different from not playing to win. It's okay to disagree with what someone thinks is the best way to win. And by the way, statistically speaking, the people that the OP plays with are about as effective at winning as he is, so this thread is nothing more than whining and blaming teammates for being stuck.
Nhika (NA)
: Frustrating to be a TRYHARD player in ranked...
If only there was a ranked mode where you could pick your team so that you would be sure everyone shared your mindset instead of trying to impose your preferences on complete strangers...
: Fun fact: Heal is for 2 person!!
This is appropriate: https://binged.it/32Juj2E
: "event" "mission" "rewards"
The missions don't require you to go out of your way at all. You complete them by just playing the game. It's the epitome of "More Free Stuff." You are complaining about not getting enough free stuff.
: "Top ward my red please!"
I'm not seeing what one has to do with the other. The reality is that the position of the lane is not the only thing to consider when deciding whether or not to gank. Some other things your junlger might be looking at: 1. Your HP vs your Opponent's HP. If you might die if you try to help, I'm not ganking. 2. The number of minions piled up at your tower. If you are going to lose 2 minion waves worth of XP and gold, or worse hanging me out to dry when I come, I'm not ganking. 3. Your mana/cooldowns. If you don't have the mana to contribute to a gank, I'm not ganking. 4. Your time and lane management. If when I get to the top side jungle you're not in position for a successful gank, I'm not ganking. And then there are even more reasons that have nothing to do with you for why I chose not to gank your lane: 1. I want to be near an important Dragon to contest it. 2. We have a high scaling ADC against a lane bully comp and I want to make sure our ADC gets into the late game. 3. The enemy jungler is camping you and they're a stronger duelist than me - If the two of us are unlikely to beat the two of them, I'm not ganking unless I 100% know the enemy jungler is far away when I'm close enough to gank. So thanks for the ward. You did it to give your team a better chance to win. If I'm staying away from your lane, it doesn't mean I have some personal vendetta against you, and it's not because I'm trying to lose. I've judged that my resources are better spent elsewhere, and I'm trying to give our team a better chance to win too.
word dog (NA)
: What honor actually means.
If no one stood out to me as doing anything particularly honorable, I honor the person who performed the best, sure. Most of the time though, I end up honoring someone who did poorly but didn't give up or lash out in chat. This is especially important to me because as a jungler, I tend to favor ganking the lanes where I can secure an advantage and that's rarely the lane that gets off to a bad start.
: > [{quoted}](name=Subdue,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EXX1vd0x,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-02T22:29:06.694+0000) > > You don't get penalized for what you have in quotes there. If you got penalized for that game, it was for something else you said. I'm here to tell you: yes you can. Riot views multiple attempts to correct a teammate's play as harassment, even if you're not shouting insults.
> [{quoted}](name=5 Dollar Holler,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EXX1vd0x,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-06T20:20:25.705+0000) > > I'm here to tell you: yes you can. Riot views multiple attempts to correct a teammate's play as harassment, even if you're not shouting insults. Looked though a few of your posts and found at least 2 times that you were punished, both of which were not for constructive advice, but rather for insulting comments. Care to provide logs that have led you to the conclusion that you get penalized for constructive comments?
: everyone: autofill always get me jungle fuck that, meanwhile me:
I don't know if it's different on your server and at your current rating, but I always queue Jungle/Mid even though I don't play mid, and I get jungle pretty much every time. I can't remember the last time I got anything other than Jungle.
: Calling it damage, then having damage reduction that doesn't reduce the 'Damage' is an oxymoron. Fundamentally wrong.
> [{quoted}](name=Fluffi Kitti,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KcyVBeVE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-09-05T05:13:31.760+0000) > > Calling it damage, then having damage reduction that doesn't reduce the 'Damage' is an oxymoron. Fundamentally wrong. Or you could argue that "true" damage which is reduced by some forms of reduction is not "true" damage. That's also an oxymoron.
: > [{quoted}](name=Subdue,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EXX1vd0x,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-01T22:28:03.333+0000) > > Example of "Urging teammate to adjust their playstyle": Play safe, we'll be there to gank soon. > > Example of being a dick: Stop feeding noob! > > The latter will get you penalized. Again, I don't have the quotes, but it was more like "Start hugging the tower, your current strat is not working and he's going to snowball out of control if you don't change what you're doing now." I don't name call like in your example, ever. Like I said, now I'm just silent.
> [{quoted}](name=5 Dollar Holler,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EXX1vd0x,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-02T18:36:11.913+0000) > > Again, I don't have the quotes, but it was more like "Start hugging the tower, your current strat is not working and he's going to snowball out of control if you don't change what you're doing now." > > I don't name call like in your example, ever. Like I said, now I'm just silent. You don't get penalized for what you have in quotes there. If you got penalized for that game, it was for something else you said.
: > [{quoted}](name=GreenTeaAndPoro,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=W51MLTG7,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-09-02T13:38:17.299+0000) > > You can not be toxic. and be a respectable human being. So chat doesn't have to be muted. Alot of ppl hate competitive communities because ppl don't know how to act when they lose a game. Leagues community is easily the most toxic out their. And it does need cleaned up. Your cleaning up would only result in a bunch of smurfs. Given that it is a free to play game. But you are right. Let's get all the toxic players, and make them play with the newbies. That would sure help the reinforcement.
> [{quoted}](name=The Kombinator,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=W51MLTG7,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2019-09-02T15:23:27.120+0000) > > Your cleaning up would only result in a bunch of smurfs. Given that it is a free to play game. > > But you are right. Let's get all the toxic players, and make them play with the newbies. That would sure help the reinforcement. Some toxic players get their account banned and come back on new accounts, that's true. Some of those players turn over a new leaf and stop being toxic. Some of them don't, and they're permabanned much faster, as new accounts experience far less leniency. And of course some of them simply don't come back. Furthermore, Riot's smurf detection is pretty spot on. Smurfs are identified quickly, and they end up playing with other smurfs. Given all that, if even one toxic player doesn't come back, or comes back and stops being toxic, that is a net positive.
JOOTAROOO (EUW)
: Little Legends. Gambling. I don't get it, man.
The gist of it is that it keeps the legendary Little Legends feeling legendary. If you break down the cost of each tier based on rarity, the legendaries actually make up the bulk of the price. Also, the Little Legends aren't a true lootbox because the contents are not truly random. They're fixed sets and each purchase affects the probability of future purchases.
: A report button from recent players could be useful. The issue is evidence. In your example, one might think simple; but what if it ended up being an empty threat and they did jungle?
> [{quoted}](name=Imperial Pandaa,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=dGUGipJP,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-09-01T22:46:54.547+0000) > > A report button from recent players could be useful. The issue is evidence. In your example, one might think simple; but what if it ended up being an empty threat and they did jungle? The threat itself should be enough to carry a penalty.
: > [{quoted}](name=Subdue,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EXX1vd0x,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-01T18:52:05.496+0000) > You've likely been less than neutral many times before. And make no mistake, this is the standard. I received a 10-game restriction myself last season. I was shocked. I posted the chat logs here, and the community consensus was "Nothing you said was toxic, but it wasn't really positive either." This was a long time ago so I don't have the quotes, but along the lines of my urging teammates to adjust their playstyle. If someone is going 0-15 in the first 10 minutes, your only comment can be "Great job!" or nothing at all. The result for me is that I just don't type in chat anymore for any reason. I use pings when I have to but that's it, I'm basically a bot heh.
> [{quoted}](name=5 Dollar Holler,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EXX1vd0x,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-01T19:45:47.380+0000) > > And make no mistake, this is the standard. I received a 10-game restriction myself last season. I was shocked. I posted the chat logs here, and the community consensus was "Nothing you said was toxic, but it wasn't really positive either." This was a long time ago so I don't have the quotes, but along the lines of my urging teammates to adjust their playstyle. > > If someone is going 0-15 in the first 10 minutes, your only comment can be "Great job!" or nothing at all. > > The result for me is that I just don't type in chat anymore for any reason. I use pings when I have to but that's it, I'm basically a bot heh. Example of "Urging teammate to adjust their playstyle": Play safe, we'll be there to gank soon. Example of being a dick: Stop feeding noob! The latter will get you penalized.
: if the case is that you get penalized for frequency and other games there should be some sort of indication for this. when u get penalized it shows u the chat log for that one game. u get no warnings for whats unacceptable behaviour. it goes from 0 to 100 over one game, i have no way of knowing whats acceptable and not when i got no warnings and i didnt say anything really offencive, whats being displayed to me by streamers and waht not is way worse and they are not being penalized for doing it on a daily basis, so it kind of states that its acceptable behaviour. i personally dont belive that calling someone an "ape" and tellign them to "SIT" is ground for me to lose all year of progress on honors as a first time offender. if the punish ment is going to be this harsh u should atleast recive a warning at some point seeing as u say its based on more than whats displayed? why are we not getting info when its piling up? my frequency is low, i dont speak in 99% of my games, n the severity isnt high either in my opinion "ape" and "sit" isnt severe. So i think the system is too vauge and too harsh as a first time and end of season
> [{quoted}](name=LilBlondie,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EXX1vd0x,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-09-01T17:58:17.044+0000) > > if the case is that you get penalized for frequency and other games there should be some sort of indication for this. when u get penalized it shows u the chat log for that one game. u get no warnings for whats unacceptable behaviour. it goes from 0 to 100 over one game, i have no way of knowing whats acceptable and not when i got no warnings and i didnt say anything really offencive, whats being displayed to me by streamers and waht not is way worse and they are not being penalized for doing it on a daily basis, so it kind of states that its acceptable behaviour. i personally dont belive that calling someone an "ape" and tellign them to "SIT" is ground for me to lose all year of progress on honors as a first time offender. if the punish ment is going to be this harsh u should atleast recive a warning at some point seeing as u say its based on more than whats displayed? why are we not getting info when its piling up? my frequency is low, i dont speak in 99% of my games, n the severity isnt high either in my opinion "ape" and "sit" isnt severe. > > So i think the system is too vauge and too harsh as a first time and end of season It shows the chat log for your last few games as an example of the behavior that got you penalized. Keep in mind that you're supposed to be at worst neutral at all times. Calling people "ape" and telling them to "sit" is not neutral, and it is against the rules. That it's not severe enough to trigger an immediate penalty is not an excuse to continue doing it. For reference here's is the Summoner's Code: https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/get-started/summoners-code/ It may be the first time you've been penalized, but you are not a first time offender. You've likely been less than neutral many times before. Personally I think there should be a one-time warning when you're halfway towards the first penalty which reminds you that your behavior is unacceptable and provides an example. However, after that any penalty should result in loss of season rewards, period.
: > i really hope Riot looks into this and finds a better solution for first time penalties that makes players want to do better rather than give up. If you've been playing since season 2, you've had literally thousands of games as "chances" to behave. Unless you dropped a zero-tolerance phrase ("kys", racist & homophobic comments), you didn't get punished for just one game...you've had a history, however recent, of not following the rules. This is going to sound a bit harsh but news flash - punishments are supposed to feel bad as a deterrent. Hopefully you'll remember the loss of honor and chat restriction and not repeat the same behavior again. Again - if you've been around since season 2, the system and how it works is not a secret to you, and you need to stop the negative chat in game. > its basicly the end of season already and getting my honor up to lvl 2 again to recive any of the rewards availeable for me is close to impossible Again - since you've been here since season 2, you know that seasons end in the first few weeks of November. Why would you risk your account standing and rewards at this point?
> [{quoted}](name=GatekeeperTDS,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EXX1vd0x,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-09-01T15:50:41.357+0000) > > If you've been playing since season 2, you've had literally thousands of games as "chances" to behave. Unless you dropped a zero-tolerance phrase ("kys", racist & homophobic comments), you didn't get punished for just one game...you've had a history, however recent, of not following the rules. > > This is going to sound a bit harsh but news flash - punishments are supposed to feel bad as a deterrent. Hopefully you'll remember the loss of honor and chat restriction and not repeat the same behavior again. > > Again - if you've been around since season 2, the system and how it works is not a secret to you, and you need to stop the negative chat in game. > > Again - since you've been here since season 2, you know that seasons end in the first few weeks of November. Why would you risk your account standing and rewards at this point? Here's where I'll disagree with you. What is acceptable and what is not acceptable is not always clear. Ideally people would be angels all the time, but that's not the case. Everyone slips up a bit. And since the system is so lenient, it's easy to understand one's behavior is acceptable when in reality it's slowing racking up penalty points against you. Toxic people should definitely be penalized, but the penalty should not be different based on when during the season it occurs.
: First time penalties
You're not penalized for one game. You're penalized based on frequency and severity. So you can be extremely toxic in a few games, or you can be mildly toxic in a lot of games. Also, the bar for not receiving a penalty is extremely low. You can get away with A LOT. That's why the vast majority of players are never penalized. That said, I do agree that whatever they settle on should be as punitive whether you get penalized early in the season or late.
: There's no point in explaining it to you further. You're too _ to understand.
> [{quoted}](name=Light Burner,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=AY75q1EX,comment-id=000700000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-01T04:07:29.456+0000) > > There's no point in explaining it to you further. You're too _ to understand. http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-the-four-levels-of-comedy-make-your-friends-laugh-make-strangers-laugh-get-paid-to-make-jerry-seinfeld-166867.jpg
: I agree im too gay to understand.
> [{quoted}](name=Light Burner,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=AY75q1EX,comment-id=0007000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-01T04:02:00.049+0000) > > I agree im too gay to understand. Please elaborate. What do you mean by the?
: Explain what this "very basic concept" is without trying to mudsling because thats also an error in logic.
> [{quoted}](name=Light Burner,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=AY75q1EX,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-09-01T03:57:11.703+0000) > > Explain what this "very basic concept" is without trying to mudsling because thats also an error in logic. There's no point in explaining it to you further. You're too _____ to understand.
: Moderating abuse
This thread and the one it references is an excellent lesson in how to be intentionally obtuse. Light Burner is a total ______. How else can he not understand this very basic concept?
: > [{quoted}](name=Subdue,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=nEn5Uovy,comment-id=00000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-09-01T01:48:09.533+0000) > > Take the word "Gay" in those two examples and replace it with another word that you think conveys the same meaning. "man i hate losing to funnel" "its such a op strat" I do not see the part while this is offensive
> [{quoted}](name=Garen is adopted,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=nEn5Uovy,comment-id=000000000001000000000001,timestamp=2019-09-01T01:50:43.637+0000) > > "man i hate losing to funnel" > "its such a op strat" > > I do not see the part while this is offensive So you think "Gay" and "Overpowered" are synonyms?
: thats cheap its such a fun strat Which one is hate speech?
> [{quoted}](name=Light Burner,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=nEn5Uovy,comment-id=000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-01T01:49:19.390+0000) > > thats cheap > > its such a fun strat > > Which one is hate speech? Well first of all, "Gay" and "Cheap"? Cheap is still a negative. Using gay as a negative is the definition of hate speech. But your example is such a stretch anyway. As for fun, your example is "I hate losing to funnel, it's such a **fun** strat"? Any 3rd grader can tell you that doesn't make sense.
: "oh i got killed in a bush off a cheese strat" "thats gay" "man i hate losing to funnel" "its such a gay strat" Neither of these have to do with idiotic or stupid. Negative context i would say is subjective in this manner since, doing something "200 IQ" can be considered "gay" in the way the above examples use it. Its kind of dumb that people are pushing the literal definition of gay when they know that isnt what was actually meant.
> [{quoted}](name=Light Burner,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=nEn5Uovy,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2019-09-01T01:38:07.327+0000) > > "oh i got killed in a bush off a cheese strat" > "thats gay" > > "man i hate losing to funnel" > "its such a gay strat" > > Neither of these have to do with idiotic or stupid. Negative context i would say is subjective in this manner since, doing something "200 IQ" can be considered "gay" in the way the above examples use it. Its kind of dumb that people are pushing the literal definition of gay when they know that isnt what was actually meant. Take the word "Gay" in those two examples and replace it with another word that you think conveys the same meaning.
: "Retalitory Report"
> [{quoted}](name=Glamorous Rammus,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=spWYORXH,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-08-28T15:56:26.512+0000) > > I'm guilty of throwing salt when I get stuck in a game like this. But I've noticed a serious trend- the person rallying for reports is throwing just as much salt, if not more.
Subdue (NA)
: When you think you're about to rage...
--------The Point------> (Your Head)
: > [{quoted}](name=Subdue,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=spWYORXH,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2019-08-31T20:09:29.707+0000) > > You won't get what you're asking for, because it is illogical and contrary to the data. That said, It wouldn't really matter anyway. My chat is always clean, and I always report both sides of a flame war. I imagine most people do the same, and as such, you'd get penalized about as frequently anyway. > > Also, have you noticed how most of the people here who disagree with you have kept their side of the conversation civil, while you seem completely unable to do the same? I'd be willing to bet even if the rule was that whoever "started it" would be penalized, you'd still be penalized quite often, as you seem unable to control yourself, even here in a low stress environment. Funny how you talk about being civil but you try insulting me with passive aggressive undertones. "I'd be willing to bet" is an insinuation, so even if you aren't using vulgar language, you're still being toxic. And people that get away with this kind of behavior are the reason people like me are frustrated with the system. If I put you in front of a psychologist, they would say you have anger issues. A person that makes insinuations as a base line to judge other people is prejudiced, and is practicing a "less hostile" form of discrimination. Because I am frustrated- you insinuate that my opinions are less valid. And despite keeping a logical stance, you're even claiming my argument is illogical. The only lack of logic here is displayed by the people chiming in with the thoughtless "reap and repeat" responses. In fact, your inability to defend that stance with reason- and the fact that your entire argument consists of a repeated conclusion without any premises, shows your argument to be the illogical one. Except it's the internet, and you have the luxury of sitting at your computer and pretend to be whoever you want to be. So you're pretending to understand how logic works against a guy who captained the debate team. But if this was an "in person" discussion you wouldn't be as comfortable pretending to understand what "logic" looks like.
> [{quoted}](name=Glamorous Rammus,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=spWYORXH,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2019-08-31T22:14:56.354+0000) > > Funny how you talk about being civil but you try insulting me with passive aggressive undertones. > > "I'd be willing to bet" is an insinuation, so even if you aren't using vulgar language, you're still being toxic. > And people that get away with this kind of behavior are the reason people like me are frustrated with the system. > If I put you in front of a psychologist, they would say you have anger issues. A person that makes insinuations as a base line to judge other people is prejudiced, and is practicing a "less hostile" form of discrimination. > Because I am frustrated- you insinuate that my opinions are less valid. > And despite keeping a logical stance, you're even claiming my argument is illogical. > The only lack of logic here is displayed by the people chiming in with the thoughtless "reap and repeat" responses. > In fact, your inability to defend that stance with reason- and the fact that your entire argument consists of a repeated conclusion without any premises, shows your argument to be the illogical one. > Except it's the internet, and you have the luxury of sitting at your computer and pretend to be whoever you want to be. So you're pretending to understand how logic works against a guy who captained the debate team. But if this was an "in person" discussion you wouldn't be as comfortable pretending to understand what "logic" looks like. I didn't have to make any insinuations. I didn't assume anything about your behavior. You outright stated in your original post that you do things which the system considers unacceptable. Remember this? > I'm guilty of throwing salt when I get stuck in a game like this. But I've noticed a serious trend- the person rallying for reports is throwing just as much salt, if not more. You're merely arguing that you shouldn't be penalized if the person you're being rude to is also rude to you, and I'm telling you that other people are likely reporting you as well, so you'd get penalized even if that person's report didn't count. As for the why of that, it's pretty simple. Your argument with this other person that you consider the offender doesn't just affect you and that person, it affects all of your teammates. It's annoying and frustrating to see teammates arguing instead of playing, and also arguments within the team are already known to reduce the ability of the team to win. Also, I highly doubt you're on a debate team when you resort to ad hominem attacks in the 2nd line of your introductory post.
Rioter Comments
: "Retalitory Report"
You won't get what you're asking for, because it is illogical and contrary to the data. That said, It wouldn't really matter anyway. My chat is always clean, and I always report both sides of a flame war. I imagine most people do the same, and as such, you'd get penalized about as frequently anyway. Also, have you noticed how most of the people here who disagree with you have kept their side of the conversation civil, while you seem completely unable to do the same? I'd be willing to bet even if the rule was that whoever "started it" would be penalized, you'd still be penalized quite often, as you seem unable to control yourself, even here in a low stress environment.
: No I started in B4..your premises are fales people can climb, I have, but in silver I get near or in a promo and I get fucked. I just dodged a game with unranked players (yes I look at winrates and kdas and they usually are 25% winrate with 0.5 KDA, NOT silver material) and then I got the below team: My team Me-S2 S4 B2 Unranked Unranked other team G3 G4 S3 S3 S2 That is total bulslhit and has nothing to do with my skill. I should not have to fucking be challenger to climb in silver to gold....so no you are completely wrong, my first season I was finied provisionals as Bronze 4 then I climbed to bronze 1....I have climbed to Silver 1, but now I get horriffic teams. I should be able to play mid and not have to go 10 -0 by 15 min in order to win the game, but most of my losses are that exact scenario How many new players are silver level, not many. The ones I just had in my game were God awful, I have never seen a new player just carry games....they should start in iron 4. Either they work to improve or they just play ARAM and URF all day...atleast they dont fuck my games. Nobody in life ever starts in the middle...….they start at the bottom.....
> [{quoted}](name=Buckeye2002,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HlrE9Ono,comment-id=002800020000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-30T04:04:26.729+0000) > > No I started in B4..your premises are fales > > people can climb, I have, but in silver I get near or in a promo and I get fucked. I just dodged a game with unranked players (yes I look at winrates and kdas and they usually are 25% winrate with 0.5 KDA, NOT silver material) and then I got the below team: > > > > My team > Me-S2 > S4 > B2 > Unranked > Unranked > > other team > G3 > G4 > S3 > S3 > S2 > > > That is total bulslhit and has nothing to do with my skill. I should not have to fucking be challenger to climb in silver to gold....so no you are completely wrong, my first season I was finied provisionals as Bronze 4 then I climbed to bronze 1....I have climbed to Silver 1, but now I get horriffic teams. I should be able to play mid and not have to go 10 -0 by 15 min in order to win the game, but most of my losses are that exact scenario > > > > How many new players are silver level, not many. The ones I just had in my game were God awful, I have never seen a new player just carry games....they should start in iron 4. Either they work to improve or they just play ARAM and URF all day...atleast they dont fuck my games. > > Nobody in life ever starts in the middle...….they start at the bottom..... You didn't start in B4... You started in Silver, just like everyone else, and you promptly dropped because you were bad. Now, maybe you dropped before your preliminary matches were over so you never actually saw Silver before you dropped into Bronze, but Silver (or at least Silver MMR) is where you started. That said, not everyone has that experience. Most people aren't bad enough to drop into Bronze, even when they're starting out. In fact, there are more than twice as many people in Silver as there are in Bronze, and 16 times more people in Silver than in Iron. You should consider your own experience in your understanding of how the system works. You were super bad, and as a result, you fell like a rock, right into Bronze. Other super bad people experience the same thing.
: People do play well, I shouldn't have to go 10-0 in my lane every game to climb, that's ridiculous. I do watch coachings, I do watch all kinds of videos, and I can beat much higher ranked players in my lane, the problem is I cant overcome so many fed bot and top lanes....it's insane.....literally 3 games in a row where my bot lane is 2-10+ by 15 min...… and no dont give me this bullshit about you are the problem, when you watch high level players, they bitch at their teams too.....AND if they lose a few games, they get new accounts because it's so hard to climb when your MMR is not pristine...….
> [{quoted}](name=Buckeye2002,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HlrE9Ono,comment-id=0028000200000000,timestamp=2019-08-29T00:41:58.658+0000) > > People do play well, I shouldn't have to go 10-0 in my lane every game to climb, that's ridiculous. I do watch coachings, I do watch all kinds of videos, and I can beat much higher ranked players in my lane, the problem is I cant overcome so many fed bot and top lanes....it's insane.....literally 3 games in a row where my bot lane is 2-10+ by 15 min...… > > and no dont give me this bullshit about you are the problem, when you watch high level players, they bitch at their teams too.....AND if they lose a few games, they get new accounts because it's so hard to climb when your MMR is not pristine...…. Okay, let's look at this a different way. You started in Silver, and you have not been able to move up ever since. Imagine if since inception, everyone started in in Iron 4, the very bottom of the barrel. That would mean you would have started in Iron 4 as well. Thus, you would expect to be playing with the EXACT SAME PLAYERS that you are playing with now, and you would be unable to progress, just like you're unable to progress now, except you'd be in Iron instead of Silver. Is that what you're looking for?
: I really want to buy a little legend. but the RNG Gambling system you set up is ridiculous
It probably has something to do with wanting to keep legendaries rare. If you analyze the probabilities of various levels of Little Legends against the cost of buying them, you'll find that the bulk of the cost is actually in the legendaries.
iChem (NA)
: The gold early on is literally the equivalent of ONE stage worth of income. That is by no means an advantage of any kind. Do you even play TFT? The only thing it allows you to do is generate 1 extra gold interest 1 stage earlier. That's it. At best you can forgo the interest and get a couple 2 star champs if you are oh so lucky to get 3 of the same champs twice early without having to reroll and that's only an advantage for the first couple of stages when everyone else has 1, that's it. Once everyone else catches up after a couple stages you will lose any even matchup because of items and in most cases any matchup you would normally have won as well because full items have a bigger impact on the game (when placed right) then champ star levels for common champs. Getting to the later stages might help, but once again you are RNG'ing items and not just items but whether or not you will even get an item to decide if you have a chance or not. And if you would of bothered to read my post, you would have read that I made it to stage 5. Which is after raptors and GOT NO ITEMS. EVERY GAME. I've always been an unlucky person and this game mode is no different, I don't mind rng in the game but not to the extent that it is. What you get in the champ bar is rng, the items are rng, what comes up in the carousel is rng. who you fight is rng. The only thing about it that isn't rng is where you place your champ. It wouldn't be a problem if RIOT actually knew how to implement rng properly but they don't. if you dont get items in the first stage you most like won't in any of the later stages either (depending on how many have been knocked out). It's the same with who you fight. You will fight the same 2 or 3 people over and over again because they aren't using true rng, its pseudo rng and pseudo rng ALWAYS generates a predictable pattern because it can't break its own rules and takes into account what other people get as well. Lets say its a 50/50 chance of you getting an item vs gold. 4 other people in the game got an item so the other 4 in the game WON'T get an item because its a 50/50 chance and the game must adhere to this rule. So because those 4 got an item your chance is actually 0%. Granted this is an overly simplified example and I'm sure there are some other rules that allow for the odds to be unbalanced a bit but it isn't enough.
> [{quoted}](name=iChem,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=La9dTLnE,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-08-26T19:47:21.155+0000) > > The gold early on is literally the equivalent of ONE stage worth of income. That is by no means an advantage of any kind. Do you even play TFT? The only thing it allows you to do is generate 1 extra gold interest 1 stage earlier. That's it. At best you can forgo the interest and get a couple 2 star champs if you are oh so lucky to get 3 of the same champs twice early without having to reroll and that's only an advantage for the first couple of stages when everyone else has 1, that's it. Once everyone else catches up after a couple stages you will lose any even matchup because of items and in most cases any matchup you would normally have won as well because full items have a bigger impact on the game (when placed right) then champ star levels for common champs. > > Getting to the later stages might help, but once again you are RNG'ing items and not just items but whether or not you will even get an item to decide if you have a chance or not. And if you would of bothered to read my post, you would have read that I made it to stage 5. Which is after raptors and GOT NO ITEMS. EVERY GAME. I've always been an unlucky person and this game mode is no different, I don't mind rng in the game but not to the extent that it is. What you get in the champ bar is rng, the items are rng, what comes up in the carousel is rng. who you fight is rng. The only thing about it that isn't rng is where you place your champ. It wouldn't be a problem if RIOT actually knew how to implement rng properly but they don't. if you dont get items in the first stage you most like won't in any of the later stages either (depending on how many have been knocked out). It's the same with who you fight. You will fight the same 2 or 3 people over and over again because they aren't using true rng, its pseudo rng and pseudo rng ALWAYS generates a predictable pattern because it can't break its own rules and takes into account what other people get as well. Lets say its a 50/50 chance of you getting an item vs gold. 4 other people in the game got an item so the other 4 in the game WON'T get an item because its a 50/50 chance and the game must adhere to this rule. So because those 4 got an item your chance is actually 0%. Granted this is an overly simplified example and I'm sure there are some other rules that allow for the odds to be unbalanced a bit but it isn't enough. If you get all coins in the first 3 PVE stages, that's a total of 9 gold, in addition to any interest income you may have earned as a result of making it over 10 gold. To put that into perspective, every round where you don't earn income and aren't on a streak you earn 5 gold, which means it takes 2 rounds to start earning any interest. The gold therefore puts you at least 2 rounds ahead but again it's exponential as the more gold you have each round the more interest you earn, which means you could easily be 3-4 rounds ahead of the competition in terms of income, which translates to hitting 50 gold when the others are at 20-30, which means you could leapfrog to get ahead of levels without drying out your income, thus being able to reroll harder to grab key high value units such as Draven, Jinx, Kayle, etc. Would I rather have this than getting 6 items off the initial PVE rounds, no. However, it's also not that bad.
: The problem is you can position against everything else in a pretty similar way while Hextech really screws it up, so when there are 8 players, it feels like coinflip on if you get to face them or not. I guess I didn't explain that part well enough - it's not a problem when you're the last two players, but the rest of the time it feels like an issue.
> [{quoted}](name=SmukkeHund,realm=EUW,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=a316BEiq,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-26T05:39:13.853+0000) > > The problem is you can position against everything else in a pretty similar way while Hextech really screws it up, so when there are 8 players, it feels like coinflip on if you get to face them or not. I guess I didn't explain that part well enough - it's not a problem when you're the last two players, but the rest of the time it feels like an issue. What you're describing is not a problem, it's a boon. Having to come up with positioning that is effective against multiple compositions adds depth to the game. This is a good thing.
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Subdue

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