: What is Sona suppose to be?
An outdated stat stick who should have been on the list
: I seriously think we need to have a discussion about enchanters in this game moving forward
As enchanter player, I think: Janna and Nami are fine as they are right now. Basically because they can safely cc the enemy adc/sup when an engage happens. Soraka is borderline, she really shines in low elo when players don't buy grievous wounds, and don't dodge her Q skillshot. Once you climb she becomes a situational pick for the silence. Lulu is trash, polymorphs range sucks, its single target. Her spells are mediocre garbage that dont do anything early game, and she's really only viable with a kogmaw. Even then a kogmaw could still do well with something like Nautilus, and nobody plays kogmaw. Sona needs a rework badly, she's essentially a stat stick that can only function mid-late game. Honestly she's still better as an adc still. She is just way too easy too camp or engage on early, and the reward from making it to late game isn't as good anymore bc of the sona/taric nerf. Yuumi should have never been made. I would like some defensive stat increases for all enchanters. But tbh Lulu and Sona are too outdated for the current meta of support. Nami and Janna could use some QoL's, but I rather just see engaged nerfed.
: Immobile Assassin concept
: How bad are enchanters nowdays?
Enchanters are far too squishy early imo. They all get blown up if they make one mistake. For how low impact they are early. Karma is alright, Janna's cd are a bit too high early, Nami is fine just suffers from being squishy, Soraka's Q is far too slow against good opponents, Lulu's polymorph range should be a bit higher, and her Q should do more damage if you hit both lances. Overall they're all okay but there's a few things I would like changed, base stats in particular because it's "oops I made one mistake, time to blowup and now the enemy will snowball". Mage sups suffer from this as well, but they at least have high damage early and typically higher range so it's safer. It's more deserved in their case to have poor base stats outside of AP.
Norikat (NA)
: If it’s having you walk closer when you try to cast it’s because the place you chose to land your ability was out of range, and I’m assuming you intended it to land where enemies either are standing you where you predict they will be standing... so why on earth would you want this change so that your ability will instead auto cast closer than intended and miss, ergo wasting mana and putting it on cooldown?
The ability is very inconsistent over walls for max range. Go test it out yourself along the dragon pit. The max range outside the pit works fine, but over the wall it won't cast at certain angles. (At some points in walls, the ability will not cast at all from the proper max range) It also happens when your moving back and forth a lot, I go to click the spell but the game will register me to far bc my model turned around. In these instances I rather it cast from max range, then not cast at all. It wastes my time, and possibly prediction of the enemy moving forward. Also the 1 extra second that it moves you forward makes you so obvious that'll you be casting Q before the indicator even appears.
: Another dang thread about Pyke
Don't forget he also gets 70 armor more from aftershock.
Łauren (EUW)
: I'm a Soraka OTP and this would hurt her, **please do not change this**, if people are bad at her stop playing her, it's that simple or learn her ranges before you play her in ranked or use quick cast indicator. But if you still decide to do so then please let each individual themselves decide whether he want this option to be enabled or not.
I agree it should be optional, but it's not about knowing the range or not. The skillshot is already easy to dodge when you play against competent opponents. It doesn't help that sometimes when you cast it from max range, it has you walk forward a bit instead of just doing it. (particularly on walls) Soraka is my most played champ as well, and I've got to D2 with. I wouldn't consider myself bad, this would just be a nice QoL the few times you do use Q from max range. (Since it's much easier to hit short/mid range)
: Support: what to do with a bad ADC.
Depends on how bad it is, I'll usually stay in lane and just try to finish my support item. After that I'll prob leave bot lane, and rotate around the map trying to make plays. If there's nothing on the map, I'll go deep warding, then sit with whoever is the most fed/most likely to actually help me until the next objective comes up.
: Experimental "Max Cast Range" Changes Coming to PBE!
Can you add Soraka's Q to this? It often has me walk up instead of just casting it. Nice idea
: what counters shaco bot lane?
Poke sups or soraka, start with a control ward, and sweeper. Put the control ward on your brush side, and sweep when you see/think he'll put down boxes. Use your spells to harass his ADC (since he cant trade effectively without you running into his boxes).
Senamz13 (NA)
: Worlds Support Champion Diversity
Hooks are fun to watch logic~ they even tried to nerf yuumi so she wouldnt appear, didn't work. (yuumi is flawed by design) Poke and Enchanter's are not as good rn, they're way more squishy, provide less engage cc and do about the same damage as hook supports. (Poke do more, Enchanters do less) Poke sups aren't reliable enough, you have to land a lot of spells to outpoke the tanky hook boy. Which is harder to do against good players who can dodge skillshots. Enchanters utility numbers aren't high enough early, and while they can survive the lane if they avoid getting hooked, one mistake or if they flash engage will get an enchanter/adc killed usually. Both of these types are easy to tower dive as well, which can happen in proplay. Imo hook sups base stats are too high for having the best engage cc
: Make enchanters great once.
Their utility is weak bc the game doesn't usually go long enough for them to scale, and it's very aggressive early. They can do damage, each enchanter has an ability they you will want to put 3 points into before you start maxing out your utility ability. Soraka Q or E (Depends on how good your opponent is at dodging Q) Nami Q or W (W if you can't reliably land Q's, nami's Q has a higher base, and the cdr by leveling it first is nice to have it up more often) Janna W Lulu Q Sona Q The reason why they may feel weak even if your poking correctly, is bc they are so squishy, and damage is high. If you get cced once it's usually death or all sums used. I rather buff enchanter's early base stats, before directly buffing their damage or utility.
: If I understand riot's balancing act...
That's a dream come true. But I don't think so yet, they very hesitant with enchanters and mages. I do think control mages will probably be getting damage buffs overall first. Syndra is viable now, and Orianna got a nice buff. Perhaps someone like Ziggs, or Anivia are next. I'd like it if Janna Q did more damage (but she fine rn), if Starcall had a faster missle speed/soraka R cleansed griveous wounds, and if they do something to Lulu. At least each enchanter has a reason to be picked right now aside from her.
: > [{quoted}](name=Sune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=26e281Jt,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2019-09-26T03:43:28.117+0000) > > bc riot aren't nerfing the obnoxious mid lane champs, so to bring ori more aline to their balance they have to buff her so she'll be picked. she's bad into a lot of these early game assassins. which orianna cannot kill unless they mess up severely, but more times they will just roam around the map. she'll still be the same champ from level 1-5, but her ulting will be more rewarding which she kinda needs if she wants to be picked rn, since we aren't shifting out of this snowball meta that's awfully nice of them to buff a champion who didn't need it, for the sake of allowing them to have a better experience in the mid lane.... while in the meantime they completely destroy toplane by buffing the fuck out of fiora who will now beat you in lane, but then also push you the fuck in with little you can do about it, on top of all the ranged bullshit that they let people play freely at no disadvantage. and i'm suuuuuuure orianna NEEDED that buff. like QRW doing 80% or more of your health is completely fine and should be rewarded with even more damage despite her kit being fully aoe. imagine giving a control mage or utility mage or whatever she is more DAMAGE. 10/10
I don't like this balance philosophy either. But ori clearly needed some type of buff if they are not nerfing her counters, the champ is hardly played, and hovers around 49%-50% usually. Maybe this will happen to every control mage now, seeing as though Syndra is the only viable one after she got her damage buffed. We'll see how ori ends up, but I think the buff is big but won't make her broken. Like I said still the same champ for lvl 1-5, she just now packs a punch with her ult earlier. Which is rather important for the early-mid skirmishes. She still has a lacking early skirmish pre-6.
datfatguy (OCE)
: Shurelya’s Reverie
I like building the item on enchanter supports if I don't need ardent after my athene's.
: Why is syndra allowed to deal nunu ult levels of damage instantly/point and click and one shot me?
Syndra's damage was simply brought up to par with assassin damage. She is still immobile, so if she misses her stun she's dead. If she's killing you with just ult it's real late in the game or she got fed. I'd like if they lowered all the damage in the mid lane. She's literally the only immobile viable mage stop crying bc "point and click" after she landed her skillshot.
: I completely agree! Part of picking an enchanter is for their ability to peel well late game, but because of the nature of meta, games are pretty much decided by around the mid game. Riot has really killed the idea of waiting to scale up for enchanters because of all the tools engage supports have, but you already know this. Lol If Riot wanted to buff the range on something, it really should have been Lulu W because my god, that champs needs help. XD
I'd like if enchanters had better base defensive stats early if they want us to play so agressive early. (But the same stats overall, so we're the same squishy mid-late) This way we can reliably poke out the enemy adc if the hook sup doesn't land anything, and have a chance at surviving an all in if they hook us instead of our adc. Or they could lower the damage output of hook sups/adc earlier. Idk it's to the point where even just Rakan W at level 1 can get you killed in bot lane. Damage is just so high
: Let's Talk Hook Supports
As another diamond enchanter main, I completely agree how hook champs just feel so bad to play against right now. The game usually doesn't go late enough to "outscale". This forces us to play agressive early, and put 3 points into are damage ability first. We always have to put ourselves in the range of hooks, while the only defense is the minion wave. One hook = death or all sums used. It's playable but really annoying how they can just keep missing and just back off. On top of them all being tanky compared to us, while doing the same or more damage. The only real peeling during the early levels is CCing the enemy adc, Nami Q or Janna Q. It's why those 2 feel so much better than the other enchanters. (Lulu's W range is not safe enough against an enemy ADC, works gr8 for assassins still) Then they just buy mobi boots, and walk up to your face, or bother other lanes/junglers. At this point they'll have CDR, and points put into the ability. So if they miss in lane, the window just gets even smaller. I've played some games where hooks were ultimates lol, for such a high pressure ability I'd think the CD or Mana cost would be higher. Sure it's relatively high at level 1, but janna shield is around the same at level 1. I just ban Naut everygame right now, Thresh added utility is more annoying (since he can do stuff even if he misses), Blitz was the most fair to play against but now they added range, Pyke still has insane regen for w/e reason ontop of gold share.
Doodlzzz (NA)
: Whats with the Orianna buff?
bc riot aren't nerfing the obnoxious mid lane champs, so to bring ori more aline to their balance they have to buff her so she'll be picked. she's bad into a lot of these early game assassins. which orianna cannot kill unless they mess up severely, but more times they will just roam around the map. she'll still be the same champ from level 1-5, but her ulting will be more rewarding which she kinda needs if she wants to be picked rn, since we aren't shifting out of this snowball meta
Saezio (EUNE)
: Well, she is on the strong side, so she should be a little bit nerfed. Now, other supports like Thresh/nami should be nerfed too and they aren't, which feels unfair. But think of poor rakan/tahm players... LOL getting gutted simply cause of pro must feel terrible
I think she's currently fine. Not big enough of a menace to consider changes like this. I can get why they would want to change E max, but the compensation is lacking. I ban Thresh every ranked game I play, he's way too impactful, and overloaded with utility.
: I don't understand why they are nerfing her damage in the late game. Like I can see them lowering the damage a bit at early ranks but why also at max rank? Soraka barely does any damage in the late game so this just seems dumb. No idea why they want to make her E so terrible pretty much at all points of the game. If the issue is that she is "too lane dominant" why no actually make her early game be worst? instead they seem to be nerfing her at all points in the game... but don't worry guys her Q will heal you and your allies a bit more! among with having more MS at some points!
Yeah that's my main concern as well since the nerfs are impactful all game instead of just early. In fact late game, where you'll more likely to get both hit's on E (the damage reapplies when it roots) it does so much less damage when you remember this. The compensation for the nerf isn't that great, and leaves you more reliant on the ADC to use the MS buff correctly.
: Its the damage she is doing by maxing E first. That is why it is being nerfed, along with Q. While I believe Riot should focus on the other damage dealers that, quite frankly, look at Sorakas damage and chuckle, the community clamoured that damage is too high...Riot is just going about it in a strange way... I don’t understand the decaying MS from Q though, unless all Ms buffs are destined to decay over time (like with shields)
I can see why they would want to force Soraka players off of E max for damage. It's not interactive with the enemy. It however leaves her with a weakness because of it's long base CD. Players can still punish her for maxing E, by doing an all in when it is on CD. I just don't understand why they nerfed Q's damage and CD ontop of it. The utility added isn't that great at all since's it's decaying, her damage potential is just hurt too much imo
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: What happened to non adcs bot lane?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 3
Any plans to give other enchanters slight damage related buffs like you did with Janna? Seems tanks are rising up again in the support role majority of the time.

Sune

Level 323 (NA)
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