Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 16
Hey meddler, What are the early results on the Nasus change? I one-trick him in mid to high plat and he feels a lot better in my games since the change, but still not oppressive. My friends in Gold or lower believe he is "super overtuned", but I felt like the change was mostly targeted to improve his Plat+ win rate. Also is jungle Nasus doing as poorly as the stats indicate?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 28
Hey Meddler, any chance Nasus might see some buffs? Damage is considerably high early (especially with dark harvest), the doran's shield makes him more susceptible to getting pushed out of lane, and he has a difficult time capitalizing on turret plate gold (since he can't cross the river too often). Myself and other Nasus players have noted his considerable weakness since preseason and he feels really low impact in Plat+. We thought that the extended laning phase would help his win rate, but it appears to have gone down.
Rekkon (EUNE)
: No, Nasus needs either a complete rework or a nerf to the fucking ground so that he is unplayable forcing him a rework. I'll explain my hatred in a detailed and well-established reason list: * Nasus offers to the game nothing but tankiness and damage. Tankiness for one because he has a passive giving him life steal, equaling sustain in lane, and damage because of his Q which stacks. Not only do you have a lot of damage as a tank, but you don't even have to build damage to do so. What's worse is that with his ultimate he becomes even better a tank, meaning he is unkillable unless the entire enemy team focuses him down while delivering tons of damage in a single ability with highly low cooldown. No this is not what a tank does. A tank delivers CC and utility, while being in the front of their team to block enemy projectiles. Since tanks are made to survive, it really is stupid when they start doing brainless damage. People keep complaining about ADCs and their stupid upfront damage with {{item:3095}} when Nasus is no better, especially when he doesn't need to spend gold for damage. Imagine the oneshots if he did build such items while remaining healthy because of his passive and general tank stats. * Nasus has a really easy to play kit. None of his abilities require any skill, you just point and click with your Q, W, E and then you apply a broken-ass self-buff with the press of a single button. No channeling, no relative cost, no warning. Just R. * Nasus is as useless in a teamfight as Rengar. Both have something in common, they have little CC and burst down single enemies. Their main difference is that Nasus dies really hard when caught out and does not need items to do damage, compared to Rengar. A teamworking game requires anything but that, let alone in a *tank*. I keep complaining about tanks and that's because they have extra damage which does not have a reason to be there. The support class has so bad damage output because they offer utility, which is their purpose. And that is what tanks should be about. * Nasus is really boring and linear. All he does is brainlessly all-in you with his W, E and R, while spamming Qs and basic attacks leading to your death. If that wasn't enough, he uses {{summoner:14}} to secure your ass before you run away safely to your escape. I don't feel good when I play such champions. Sure, oneshotting someone looks "fun" for once in a normal game. But the champion becomes unfun, completely boring and miserable. *"Okay then Hash Jr., what do you want him to do?"* Rework. Simply make that doggy Pharaoh a little more interesting. Give him a leap, because he is a dog. Or don't and make him a tank. Or make him throw a curse on you with a more interesting ability with a weird shape or some sort. Just not this. Remember Akali? The old Akali everyone hated playing against? That stupidly overpowered champion who brainlessly dashed onto you, threw a Q and proc'd it with the basic attack synergizing with her passive and a {{item:3100}}. That thing got reworked. What it became is another topic, but at least she is annoying in a more interesting way. Nasus is just something you can't do much about. Only if you chain CC you *might* kill him, and if you don't kill him, you will live the 70s again in that B&W panel. Nasus shouldn't be what he is because honestly League is not a boring game. Opinions saying it is a broken or unbalanced or whatever might hold, but it's anything but boring. You will not be bored because of the mechanics that have been implemented. Nasus is a toxic champion in the pool and needs to be changed "to match the current style of the game". Regarding kiting, not everyone can kite easily. He perfectly counters assassins because they rely on being in melee range to deliver the damage with their combo and then escape. While doing so, Nasus will throw 2 Qs and delete you faster than the game itself once you get fed up with that "gameplay". At least assassins do fancy moves and stuff before throwing you in the dumpster, whereas Nasus be like "BAM". Yes I keep bitching a lot about this, but I am not alone or wrong. Nasus needs a different type of counter in order to be countered effectively. You can't dodge (other than the queue), reset, recall, teleport, flash, blink, dash, anything. If he decides to point on you and press the magic button, it will happen. All you did was be there since you wanted to play your lane and farm. Even if you're going for a little poke, while your damage might slightly hurt him, he won't even feel it a second after because he passively has 12% life steal. I still don't get what the reasoning behind increasing that shit was, given how sustainable he is. If they wanted to make him slightly more viable "in high ELO" all they did is annoy the asses of everyone against that because he is now stronger "in low ELO". Players in that "low ELO" who play more interesting, difficult, or anyhow skilled champions are gonna suffer that "BAM" because their teammate went full degenerate and inted. Realistically speaking he is even more unplayable in higher ELO and much stronger in low ELO after the buff, whereas the exact opposite should happen. He'd rather be legitimately unplayable in all ranks than face an easy and hardly countered tanky burst champion. TL;DR rework this shit because the least we want is the game to become point and click madness again. At least we should delete enemy health bars with a little more skill than that (talking about you {{champion:238}}).
> [{quoted}](name=Rekkon,realm=EUNE,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=6x8PicjP,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2018-10-07T13:24:39.160+0000) > > No, Nasus needs either a complete rework or a nerf to the fucking ground so that he is unplayable forcing him a rework. I'll explain my hatred in a detailed and well-established reason list: > > * Nasus offers to the game nothing but tankiness and damage. Tankiness for one because he has a passive giving him life steal, equaling sustain in lane, and damage because of his Q which stacks. Not only do you have a lot of damage as a tank, but you don't even have to build damage to do so. What's worse is that with his ultimate he becomes even better a tank, meaning he is unkillable unless the entire enemy team focuses him down while delivering tons of damage in a single ability with highly low cooldown. No this is not what a tank does. A tank delivers CC and utility, while being in the front of their team to block enemy projectiles. Since tanks are made to survive, it really is stupid when they start doing brainless damage. People keep complaining about ADCs and their stupid upfront damage with {{item:3095}} when Nasus is no better, especially when he doesn't need to spend gold for damage. Imagine the oneshots if he did build such items while remaining healthy because of his passive and general tank stats. > * Nasus has a really easy to play kit. None of his abilities require any skill, you just point and click with your Q, W, E and then you apply a broken-ass self-buff with the press of a single button. No channeling, no relative cost, no warning. Just R. > * Nasus is as useless in a teamfight as Rengar. Both have something in common, they have little CC and burst down single enemies. Their main difference is that Nasus dies really hard when caught out and does not need items to do damage, compared to Rengar. A teamworking game requires anything but that, let alone in a *tank*. I keep complaining about tanks and that's because they have extra damage which does not have a reason to be there. The support class has so bad damage output because they offer utility, which is their purpose. And that is what tanks should be about. > * Nasus is really boring and linear. All he does is brainlessly all-in you with his W, E and R, while spamming Qs and basic attacks leading to your death. If that wasn't enough, he uses {{summoner:14}} to secure your ass before you run away safely to your escape. I don't feel good when I play such champions. Sure, oneshotting someone looks "fun" for once in a normal game. But the champion becomes unfun, completely boring and miserable. > > *"Okay then Hash Jr., what do you want him to do?"* > > Rework. Simply make that doggy Pharaoh a little more interesting. Give him a leap, because he is a dog. Or don't and make him a tank. Or make him throw a curse on you with a more interesting ability with a weird shape or some sort. Just not this. Remember Akali? The old Akali everyone hated playing against? That stupidly overpowered champion who brainlessly dashed onto you, threw a Q and proc'd it with the basic attack synergizing with her passive and a {{item:3100}}. That thing got reworked. What it became is another topic, but at least she is annoying in a more interesting way. Nasus is just something you can't do much about. Only if you chain CC you *might* kill him, and if you don't kill him, you will live the 70s again in that B&W panel. > > Nasus shouldn't be what he is because honestly League is not a boring game. Opinions saying it is a broken or unbalanced or whatever might hold, but it's anything but boring. You will not be bored because of the mechanics that have been implemented. Nasus is a toxic champion in the pool and needs to be changed "to match the current style of the game". > > Regarding kiting, not everyone can kite easily. He perfectly counters assassins because they rely on being in melee range to deliver the damage with their combo and then escape. While doing so, Nasus will throw 2 Qs and delete you faster than the game itself once you get fed up with that "gameplay". At least assassins do fancy moves and stuff before throwing you in the dumpster, whereas Nasus be like "BAM". > > Yes I keep bitching a lot about this, but I am not alone or wrong. Nasus needs a different type of counter in order to be countered effectively. You can't dodge (other than the queue), reset, recall, teleport, flash, blink, dash, anything. If he decides to point on you and press the magic button, it will happen. All you did was be there since you wanted to play your lane and farm. Even if you're going for a little poke, while your damage might slightly hurt him, he won't even feel it a second after because he passively has 12% life steal. I still don't get what the reasoning behind increasing that shit was, given how sustainable he is. If they wanted to make him slightly more viable "in high ELO" all they did is annoy the asses of everyone against that because he is now stronger "in low ELO". Players in that "low ELO" who play more interesting, difficult, or anyhow skilled champions are gonna suffer that "BAM" because their teammate went full degenerate and inted. > > Realistically speaking he is even more unplayable in higher ELO and much stronger in low ELO after the buff, whereas the exact opposite should happen. He'd rather be legitimately unplayable in all ranks than face an easy and hardly countered tanky burst champion. > > TL;DR rework this shit because the least we want is the game to become point and click madness again. At least we should delete enemy health bars with a little more skill than that (talking about you {{champion:238}}). I read through most of this, but it just sounds like you don't really understand Nasus that well. It is true that Nasus is a ball of stats, but he is primarily a split-pusher and a lot of players really like playing simple champions like Nasus. There are several that exist in the game. Nasus is easily countered via kiting and using your skills properly. The mistake that a lot of silver and gold players makes against Nasus is they don't really understand how to play against him except harassing them. And since most player in lower elo don't trade really well in low elo, how they harass him is not really "optimal". They use their dash skills to engage instead of disenage, they fight Nasus on his terms often (1v1 when he has ultimate) and they don't put really don't understand that you beat Nasus by mostly putting his team behind in the process of him stacking. It sounds like you personally just find him boring or you have a difficult time against him. He is pretty strong in silver and gold, but by the time you get to platinum they understand how to play against the kit. It's just that simple, using your mobility spells to engage Nasus without a mobility spell to disengage him or without layering CC on Nasus is usually going to lead to a dead opponent. I get kited out playing him all the time in high platinum and most players in Diamond that play him actually give up playing him and switch champions. It just sounds as if you are a lower elo player that struggles playing against him because you don't understand HOW to play against him. Which is fairly common. I play games where most of my opponents never even get in wither range unless I have RG or I flash on them. Nasus is easily killable while ulting, it's why they have continuously buffed him every season.
La Bello (NA)
: Those suggested changes imply you simply want Nasus to be strong when what Nasus needs is to be HEALTHY. his kit is from a bygone era and has aged like cheese. back then in Season 1~2 when EVERYONE was a low-counterplay statcheck sure he was fine among friends ({{champion:86}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:10}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:48}} ) but since then League has gotten a LOT more dynamic than that. new law of claw dictates that he has to be modernized
> [{quoted}](name=Eachtar,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=6x8PicjP,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2018-09-05T11:42:57.895+0000) > > Those suggested changes imply you simply want Nasus to be strong when what Nasus needs is to be HEALTHY. > > his kit is from a bygone era and has aged like cheese. > > back then in Season 1~2 when EVERYONE was a low-counterplay statcheck sure he was fine among friends ({{champion:86}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:10}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:48}} ) but since then League has gotten a LOT more dynamic than that. > new law of claw dictates that he has to be modernized Nasus is fairly healthy in that he has weaknesses that are exploitable. He has a tremendous amount of counterplay and is easily punished in lane for poor wave management. He is kited easily, but mobility creep has lead to easier kiting. Just the other day i lost a Nasus games because the enemy gragas just decided to only go top and not gank any other lanes. I had 4 attempted ganks by him by level 5. So I was in a 2v1 lane and my jungler had the whole map to exert pressure. I fell very behind, because the lane was pretty much a 2v1. Got tower dove 2 times fairly early and was effectively taken out of the game and made completely irrelevant until maybe 20 minutes. Even then after catching up and I think finishing 5/5, all the other lanes didn't really capitalize on the enemy jungler only going top. So in the end, I was a non-factor to the game which was an active decision made by the enemy jungler that paid off. My point is that having him spike sooner or giving him an additional mechanic through stacks would probably help Nasus enough to achieve a 50% win rate.
Saezio (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Swiftstrike4,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=6x8PicjP,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2018-09-04T19:37:26.476+0000) > > If the Q is a skill shot, I can tell you right now that most players will not play him that currently do. A lot of Nasus players, even the higher elo ones, like the simplicity of his kit and don't play complex champions. It would alienate his player base and I know that most of the even D4+ Nasus players (the couple there) aren't mechanically very gift, they just make very good decisions with Nasus. My mechanics are very poor and am in Plat III. Making it a skill shot would probably not really 'help' the players already playing Nasus. If his Q was a skill shot they would just move to another simpler champion like {{champion:83}} most likely. Well is this not the whole point? To make the champion more mechanically rewarding and less of a stat-checker?
> [{quoted}](name=Saezio,realm=EUNE,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=6x8PicjP,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2018-09-05T00:34:36.766+0000) > > Well is this not the whole point? To make the champion more mechanically rewarding and less of a stat-checker? Not if it completely alienates it's already existing player base, which prefers simple champions. Most of the time when Riot does a rework they don't make an easy champion mechanically way way way more demanding and they usually don't make a mechanically demanding champion way easier to play. Typically, they keep them close to about the same skill. Giving Nasus skill shots on a primary ability would probably make him to complex for is established player base.
: 1. Increase the stack gained per kill by Q to 5/10 2. Set a cap on Q stack according to level (20-530 stacks, level 1-18, increased by 30 per level) 3. Add conditional hard cc to W or/and E. (1) Roots everyone inside the range of E for 0.75s when its duration ends (2) Q will stun the enemy for 0.5s if the said enemy is also slowed by W (the stun will prolong the slow) Now nasus can be somewhat more useful in teamfights starting from early on. I should no longer see autistic Nasuss splitpushing all game without having any impact on the game when his 4 teammates are being towerdived and slaughtered
> [{quoted}](name=UVM ZhaoRiTian,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=6x8PicjP,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2018-09-04T15:33:07.300+0000) > > 1. Increase the stack gained per kill by Q to 5/10 > 2. Set a cap on Q stack according to level (20-530 stacks, level 1-18, increased by 30 per level) > 3. Add conditional hard cc to W or/and E. > (1) Roots everyone inside the range of E for 0.75s when its duration ends > (2) Q will stun the enemy for 0.5s if the said enemy is also slowed by W (the stun will prolong the slow) > > Now nasus can be somewhat more useful in teamfights starting from early on. I should no longer see autistic Nasuss splitpushing all game without having any impact on the game when his 4 teammates are being towerdived and slaughtered I will say, both of these types of CC buffs would probably make Nasus a bit overtuned. He would be extremely difficult to deal with in lane with that much CC skills plus a potent slow. The idea of a conditional root on his E though, has been kicked around by higher elo Nasus players. If you are slowed while being in his pool you are rooted for a set duration. I know I have talked with some Diamond 4+ players about it. They like the idea, but we are always overly cautious with it. It might be "way too strong" and we don't realize it. Personally, I don't think Nasus needs hard CC to become "relevant" again. He just needs minor tweaks IMO to be "serviceable" again. I don't think Nasus has much agency due to his immobility. Champions with mobility spells can simply move around the map (rotate) and teamfight. Nasus just walks to you... Now in gold or lower players do just walk within wither range and you can snag them. But by Platinum they don't really do that, and they certainly are smart enough in Diamond to never do that.
Saezio (EUNE)
: OK this will be a bit radical but what if they doubled Q range but made it a skillshot? Kinda like Yas Q. Or keep it as it is for minions and hold to skillshot on champs? This should nerf him enough on low elo while buffing him high elo. An even more radical idea would be to make nasus rank up abilities based on stacks instead of levels. like at 20 stacks you get another skill point, then at 40 then at 75 etc. Still base stats scale with level but not skill points. And compensate with some mobility buffs
> [{quoted}](name=Saezio,realm=EUNE,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=6x8PicjP,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2018-09-04T06:39:23.510+0000) > > OK this will be a bit radical but what if they doubled Q range but made it a skillshot? Kinda like Yas Q. Or keep it as it is for minions and hold to skillshot on champs? This should nerf him enough on low elo while buffing him high elo. > An even more radical idea would be to make nasus rank up abilities based on stacks instead of levels. like at 20 stacks you get another skill point, then at 40 then at 75 etc. Still base stats scale with level but not skill points. And compensate with some mobility buffs If the Q is a skill shot, I can tell you right now that most players will not play him that currently do. A lot of Nasus players, even the higher elo ones, like the simplicity of his kit and don't play complex champions. It would alienate his player base and I know that most of the even D4+ Nasus players (the couple there) aren't mechanically very gift, they just make very good decisions with Nasus. My mechanics are very poor and am in Plat III. Making it a skill shot would probably not really 'help' the players already playing Nasus. If his Q was a skill shot they would just move to another simpler champion like {{champion:83}} most likely.
: Preseason Development Update 1
Hi Scruffy, Is there any way that we could opt into early CDR but still be in the defensive tree? Starting CDR is really important on a champion like {{champion:75}} and {{champion:45}} in order to stack their abilities. We use to be able to opt into the additional CDR starting prior the rune changes and it really had forced Nasus into building early CDR if he plans to stack. Now we can't start with 10 or 15% and the most we can start is 5%.
Dicerson (NA)
: Suggestion- What if his stacks Capped out at about 300, and stacked a bit slower (so 2/4 damage per kill instead of 3/6). But, once you hit 300 stacks and cap out, the damage doubles (or he gets some other massive buff as a result). Basically just a quest minigame. This way, nasus is still focused on farming and stacking, and it's still a significant part of his kit, but he isn't forced into it for the entire duration of the game, and once he's done stacking he can go off and rampage around. Though that doesn't really fix the kiting issues, I agree that there is significant mobility creep. Perhaps the solution then is just a rework of his entire kit, because as it stands there isn't really a way to help him deal with higher mobility other than just giving him better mobility or better CC
> [{quoted}](name=Dicerson,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=6x8PicjP,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-09-02T22:08:40.619+0000) > > Suggestion- What if his stacks Capped out at about 300, and stacked a bit slower (so 2/4 damage per kill instead of 3/6). But, once you hit 300 stacks and cap out, the damage doubles (or he gets some other massive buff as a result). Basically just a quest minigame. This way, nasus is still focused on farming and stacking, and it's still a significant part of his kit, but he isn't forced into it for the entire duration of the game, and once he's done stacking he can go off and rampage around. > > Though that doesn't really fix the kiting issues, I agree that there is significant mobility creep. Perhaps the solution then is just a rework of his entire kit, because as it stands there isn't really a way to help him deal with higher mobility other than just giving him better mobility or better CC If they lowered his stacking numbers then he would be incapable of dueling any top laner after scaling. Right now, conqueror has limited or cut some of his dueling power. The issue is that most top laners have a good amount of upfront damage at early levels. Nasus has very little relative to most tops and needs time to do any damage. So if you lower the stacks per creep, you really just lower Nasus's early lane presence relative to the enemy top laner AND you also aren't scaling as hard because your overall damage will be lower. Giving other lanes such as {{champion:24}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:164}} more time to scale and simply put you behind with their early lane power. The tipping point of Nasus being stronger than those champions eventually arrives in a narrow window so that playing patiently pays off. If you push that point back then...it gives them more time to run over Nasus's very poor early game. Even if the stack is capped at 300, the bonus would have to be...really really really strong. I hit about 300 in 15 to 20 minutes based on the matchup nearly every game. 400 or 500 at 20 in easy games. That means at about 15 minutes if Nasus's stacks are capped and lower per creep kill...he would have to be near invincible in a short time window. Which also doesn't offer much counter play. You also forget that having stacks also helps him sustain through a lot of damage in fights because he has the lowest scaling health of all the juggernauts due to his passive. (I checked his health scaling is lower than mundo, garen, and darius) Stacks are not the issue because any Nasus player would say that after about 600 stacks they become "irrelevant" to the game's outcome. I know that most of the games I have anywhere close to 700 to 800 stacks the game is likely a loss because it went on too long during his primary power window. Once the ADCs and APCs begin building penetration items, he really does melt pretty quick. He has a massive defensive steroid (probably the strongest in the game), he can build FULL tank say ({{item:3025}} {{item:3047}} {{item:3065}} {{item:3001}} {{item:3742}} {{item:3143}}) has the highest lifesteal in the game, and he can still get annihilated in short succession in a fight. This is mainly because it is just very simple to avoid Nasus damage and CC him from a far and if he doesn't build full tank he will die incredibly fast. How many champions can build full tank have strong damage and still be pretty irrelevant in a fight? Not many, because they all have a gap closer, mobility, or a way to go untargetable. {{champion:57}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:516}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:111}} and {{champion:154}} are pretty good examples of tanks that still can get to a target or have CC that really helps the team. They also have pretty good damage (not great).
: Personally, I think what we would need for Nasus is for him to be able to Ground targets with wither. Granted, you wouldn't be able to just tack it on without nasus becoming extremely dominant in the top lane. Maybe something along the lines of 50% slow at rank 5, 25% cripple at rank 5, and grounding the target for the duration of wither
> [{quoted}](name=Spicy Rice,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=6x8PicjP,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-08-30T01:37:53.731+0000) > > Personally, I think what we would need for Nasus is for him to be able to Ground targets with wither. > > Granted, you wouldn't be able to just tack it on without nasus becoming extremely dominant in the top lane. > > Maybe something along the lines of 50% slow at rank 5, 25% cripple at rank 5, and grounding the target for the duration of wither Grounding has been discussed by other higher elo Nasus mains. I personally still think this would make him too oppressive for a lot of other champions that rely on mobility to deal with Nasus. I think if you get grounded via his pool while he withers...he would win almost every top lane duel. I personally think increasing the wither range when using his ultimate would be sufficient enough for Nasus to actually get to a target that he wouldn't need an additional effect.
: TBH, what I really think Nasus needs is a limit to how many stacks of Q he can get, perhaps get rid of the stacking mechanic completely. That would help him immensely because his sole focus is no longer stacking Q all bloody game while his teammates are forced to 4v5 to defend a turret. Nasus, will you group? {{champion:75}} No, I'm farming top. Nasus will you group? {{champion:75}} No I'm farming Krugs. Nasus will you group? {{champion:75}} No I'm farming top again. Nasus will you defend the base now that 4 of us are dead and we have an inhibitor down? {{champion:75}} Are there minions there? Yes. {{champion:75}} Okay. **ACED!** {{champion:75}} Wait, the enemy team just collapsed on me because I wasn't checking the map. **Enemy Team has slain Baron Nashor** Yes. If anything, doing something about Nasus' infinite stacking might be the best place to start fixing him. It'd also be better for the other guy because then Nasus couldn't one shot a squishy champ with just a Q + TF proc. It'd also help the game because towers are too weak these days for Nasus to be healthy with his current Q. He revolves a little too much on Q farming all game, while it's good, it's also too much focus for one skill. In ARAM, good nasus players don't even bother that much with his Q. They go AP bruiser and are still able to be relevant in the game. So it's not like you have to focus his game around his Q either.
> [{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=6x8PicjP,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-08-29T22:20:40.526+0000) > > TBH, what I really think Nasus needs is a limit to how many stacks of Q he can get, perhaps get rid of the stacking mechanic completely. That would help him immensely because his sole focus is no longer stacking Q all bloody game while his teammates are forced to 4v5 to defend a turret. > > Nasus, will you group? > {{champion:75}} No, I'm farming top. > Nasus will you group? > {{champion:75}} No I'm farming Krugs. > Nasus will you group? > {{champion:75}} No I'm farming top again. > Nasus will you defend the base now that 4 of us are dead and we have an inhibitor down? > {{champion:75}} Are there minions there? > Yes. > {{champion:75}} Okay. > **ACED!** > {{champion:75}} Wait, the enemy team just collapsed on me because I wasn't checking the map. > **Enemy Team has slain Baron Nashor** > > Yes. If anything, doing something about Nasus' infinite stacking might be the best place to start fixing him. It'd also be better for the other guy because then Nasus couldn't one shot a squishy champ with just a Q + TF proc. It'd also help the game because towers are too weak these days for Nasus to be healthy with his current Q. He revolves a little too much on Q farming all game, while it's good, it's also too much focus for one skill. In ARAM, good nasus players don't even bother that much with his Q. They go AP bruiser and are still able to be relevant in the game. So it's not like you have to focus his game around his Q either. Nasus players that play him like this typically don't climb or win too often. Smart Nasus players rotate around the map and still secure stacks. It could be that most Nasus players play like this, but they will not have much success in ranked playing like this.
: > [{quoted}](name=KrakenKnight,realm=OCE,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=6x8PicjP,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-08-30T01:37:53.306+0000) > > HE NEEDS! a piss poor early game. This is one of the reasons I'm in favor of abolishing his infinite stacking. Good junglers know you have to camp the Nasus lane. He's one of those top champs you really can't ignore or let get going. If he gets too many stacks then towers become a joke. I'm fine with split pushers existing, but a well farmed Nasus with a lot of armor and HP is taking that strategy to the extreme. Nasus is figuratively a ticking time bomb with his inevitability, and like you said he needs a terrible early game because of it.
> [{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=6x8PicjP,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-08-30T04:07:56.289+0000) > > This is one of the reasons I'm in favor of abolishing his infinite stacking. Good junglers know you have to camp the Nasus lane. He's one of those top champs you really can't ignore or let get going. If he gets too many stacks then towers become a joke. I'm fine with split pushers existing, but a well farmed Nasus with a lot of armor and HP is taking that strategy to the extreme. > > Nasus is figuratively a ticking time bomb with his inevitability, and like you said he needs a terrible early game because of it. He isn't a time bomb at all. His spike is in the mid game primarily and right now his mid game spike is not terribly strong as it was in past seasons. His early and late game are pretty bad to average.
japhib (NA)
: Nasus is not unique in that sense at all. Literally every champion that is a certain age is “simple” enough that they have to have good base numbers to be viable in low-mid elo, but since they’re so simple people are better at outplaying them at higher elo with more versatile champions. See also {{champion:32}} {{champion:1}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:10}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:80}} Edit: I wanted to add that none of your buff suggestions would really help overcome the problem of him being good at low elo but not high, since they’re all pretty straightforward buffs that just make him stronger without really giving more options. In other words your suggestions would make him just plain better, but it’s only a matter of time before he would be outclassed again by champs with dashes, CC, or more mobility. The one suggestion I like is to give him scaling tenacity with stacks. It would effectively make him more mobile when ahead, allowing for more counter play as him. Another option would be to make one of his skills more time windowed, since other than the Q they’re all just long skills that have an effect for a long time, in a large area in E’s case. For example the Garen treatment where he got 75% tenacity for the first .75 seconds of his W, makes timing the W crucial. So if Nasus got a bunch of tenacity for the firs 2 seconds of his ult, or the W slow was reduced but he got movement speed towards that enemy and/or damage reduction against the affected enemy, it would give him more meaningful choices about skill use in the middle of a big fight.
> [{quoted}](name=japhib,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=6x8PicjP,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-08-30T01:36:04.619+0000) > > Nasus is not unique in that sense at all. Literally every champion that is a certain age is “simple” enough that they have to have good base numbers to be viable in low-mid elo, but since they’re so simple people are better at outplaying them at higher elo with more versatile champions. > > See also {{champion:32}} {{champion:1}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:10}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:80}} > > Edit: I wanted to add that none of your buff suggestions would really help overcome the problem of him being good at low elo but not high, since they’re all pretty straightforward buffs that just make him stronger without really giving more options. In other words your suggestions would make him just plain better, but it’s only a matter of time before he would be outclassed again by champs with dashes, CC, or more mobility. > > The one suggestion I like is to give him scaling tenacity with stacks. It would effectively make him more mobile when ahead, allowing for more counter play as him. > > Another option would be to make one of his skills more time windowed, since other than the Q they’re all just long skills that have an effect for a long time, in a large area in E’s case. For example the Garen treatment where he got 75% tenacity for the first .75 seconds of his W, makes timing the W crucial. So if Nasus got a bunch of tenacity for the firs 2 seconds of his ult, or the W slow was reduced but he got movement speed towards that enemy and/or damage reduction against the affected enemy, it would give him more meaningful choices about skill use in the middle of a big fight. Well the CDR or reward system for stacks would reward "higher play" because if you are good at avoiding all-ins, not dying, and stacking you will have sufficient damage. Most lower elo Nasus players don't stacks that well at all, manage the wave poorly, and die...a lot. Either that or they stack the whole game and never help secure objectives or pressure the map. Nasus is mostly a decision-making champion and if you consistently make poor decisions on him, you won't really climb beyond low gold. My point is that Nasus has a hard time even after spiking this season because he is spiking a bit late and usually with underwhelming damage. He is also gets easily outclassed the higher you climb by other champions with more powerful synergy with the key stones. I think a passive stack mechanic is the best route for Nasus, but right now Riot appears to be content continuously buffing him when his stats dip. If you read the ultimate on Nasus, it is completely absurd with how strong it is relative to other ultimates. He is granted health, his cooldown on siphoning strike is lowered, he gets AoE % damage, he gets flat resistances that stack over time, he grows in size increasing the range of his siphoning strike...like it's absurd. And some how...he still feels completely useless relative to a lot of other champions in the game due to damage and mobility being so prevalent on kits and items.
Rioter Comments
: Nasus is so frustrating to lane against.
If you are trying to lane against Nasus by trying to 1v1 him then you are playing agianst Nasus wrong. You should simply be focusing on his teammate if you can't kill him.
: Revert nasus E changes for 8.14?
No Nasus main wants this change. Even the higher elo ones.
Meddler (NA)
: We're looking at a few different directions on Nasus. I think the one likely to ship is a buff to his passive Lifesteal early game, help him get through laning phase a bit better.
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=7tEYw6Ij,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2018-07-11T15:39:29.145+0000) > > We're looking at a few different directions on Nasus. I think the one likely to ship is a buff to his passive Lifesteal early game, help him get through laning phase a bit better. Meddler, You should consider a few things about Nasus before making changes * The power spike he has is coming a bit too late, or is not quite as effective relative to other tops with the proliferation of conquerer. He is punished in lane by better early game champions and he simply doesn't scale well enough to swing a game later for the early sacrifice of playing cautiously. * Early laning IS hard and probably something to help with that might be needed (not sure what) * The payoff for when he does spike (if he gets through laning) is pretty negligible the higher you go. Part of this is the inability to run high CDR for those extra stacks, but also the early cooldown for Q is very long. It limits trades in lane and makes it punishing to trade over stacking. Going to lane with 15% CDR last season was much different than going to lane currently with 0 or 5%. Siphoning strike cooldown being lower at early levels (from 8/7/6/5/4 to 7/6/5/4/3) may "bandaid" Nasus. But all you would probably be doing is restoring some power to what he had last season. I don't know if that fully solves Nasus feeling completely useless against enemy damage creep or mobility.
BraumHole (OCE)
: Did Nasus Get Nerfed?
A lot of Nasus players use to start with 10 to 15% CDR. When the runes were changes you start with 0% or 5% if you run in the inspiration tree. It was an indirect nerf to him not being able to load up on early CDR.
: Revert Nasus E back to flat pen and reduce mana cost
I am working with Angormus (the only Nasus one trick to get Master two seasons in a row on NA) on all the Nasus nerfs. He also is considering what changes need to be made to his kit to help him and is going to probably propose a list of potential changes. I mentioned your posts and he thinks the E is perfectly fine and what needs to change is other elements to his kit. The changes could be minor or a slight mini-rework. I never thought changing or altering the shred would sufficiently change how he played. He needs other changes.
: Nasus needs some help.
Yep, he is pretty terrible right now and feels very low impact in high platinum. He seeds minor changes I think or a mini-rework.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 4
Any thoughts or changes upcoming for Nasus? He has been fairly weak for awhile with several indirect nerfs. Nearly all the players in higher Diamond stopped playing him and he feels very underwhelming in high plat/low diamond. Most other top champions outscale him and he never really hits a strong powerspike.
: Somehow Nasus feels a lot easier and better to play in this meta
...No high ranking player is playing Nasus right now. He is pretty terrible relative to every top laner and the game pacing.
: How I would change Nasus to benefit everybody.
He just needs minor base stat adjustments early and the Q needs to be lowered by 1 second per level. That will probably solve everything.
Yenn (NA)
: How about actually banning players for queuing for ranked, saying they're tilted, and feeding?
Just dodge if you see that in the lobby. Not worth the headache and riot will not make an adjustment for it.
Sasogwa (EUW)
: Angormus reached masters. Nasus is in a slightly weaker spot because of current meta and the fact conqueror's exist; but I feel it would just cause problems to buff him. He's still very viable until diam, so don't worry it's not only because of the champion if you can't climb higher. watch streams and your replays to improve
> [{quoted}](name=Sasogwa,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RAuxL8jP,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-06-18T14:14:50.026+0000) > > Angormus reached masters. Nasus is in a slightly weaker spot because of current meta and the fact conqueror's exist; but I feel it would just cause problems to buff him. He's still very viable until diam, so don't worry it's not only because of the champion if you can't climb higher. watch streams and your replays to improve Angormus did reach masters and now doesn't play Nasus because the champion is awful. He also mostly E Maxed. All the top players have dropped him and only a couple of players on NA have over 100 games on Nasus and are D3 or higher. He feels like crap to play and doesn't have a power spike nor does he outscale many champions that can do more earlier. The nature of the games ending earlier has not helped either.
: Experiment: Community Patch Notes
{{champion:75}} change. Lower the cooldown of his siphoning strike from 8/7/6/5/4 to 7/6/5/4/3. Nasus use to be able to start with 10 or 15% CDR which lead to a nice power spike in the mid game. Now, he can't start with early CDR and his power spike is on average lower because he cannot achieve as many stacks in early laning. This will also open up additional trade windows in early laning.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 15
Any idea on Nasus buffs? Conquerer and game pacing have made him virtually not viable in Plat/Diamond.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Swiftstrike4,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=r1eqke0v,comment-id=005f,timestamp=2018-06-06T18:31:10.608+0000) > > Dear Meddler, > > Is {{champion:75}} going to receive his annual compensation buffs for being indirectly nerfed? Conquerer, changes to talisman, sterak's changes, and any rune changes in the tank tree have all really hurt his early laning phase. He also doesn't spike nearly as hard in the mid game even if he stacks diligently and avoids early deaths because he can't load up on early CDR. > > He just doesn't scale or have much of a hard spike and the snowball nature of the game at the moment makes him feel...very irrelevant. > > There is very little reason to play him over several other champions that can go top that scale so well, such as {{champion:164}} that can do Nasus's job better. > > I am a Nasus one trick sitting in high platinum and my joy for the game has been very low this season because Nasus feels considerably weak at almost all points in the game. > > I am punished in the early game, I don't spike as hard in the mid game, and I am kited out in the long games or I am outscaled. > > I never achieve raidboss status and I am just a split-push bot with no mobility. Im very happy with his current state. Nasus finally has a weak early game again. With the nerfs to resolve and early game jungle pressure, Nasus can finally get dicked on without some jungler coming in level 3 with doubles to basically reset the lane for Nasus and give him time to heal back up so he get enough gold to get buy defense item with sheen and kill you at 6. Now i dont have to play aggro at 1 if I dont want to because I need to try and form as much of an advantage as possible before the enemy jg shows up and cucks me. Yes Nasus still had some bad matchs up before this patch but they were really few and some of those were really cheesy picks like vayne.
> [{quoted}](name=Oakleaf Ranger,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=r1eqke0v,comment-id=005f0001,timestamp=2018-06-07T06:56:06.150+0000) > > Im very happy with his current state. Nasus finally has a weak early game again. With the nerfs to resolve and early game jungle pressure, Nasus can finally get dicked on without some jungler coming in level 3 with doubles to basically reset the lane for Nasus and give him time to heal back up so he get enough gold to get buy defense item with sheen and kill you at 6. > > Now i dont have to play aggro at 1 if I dont want to because I need to try and form as much of an advantage as possible before the enemy jg shows up and cucks me. Yes Nasus still had some bad matchs up before this patch but they were really few and some of those were really cheesy picks like vayne. Vayne's easy for nasus...You just E max. E Maxing wins lanes against most ranged matchups. I think the problem is the payoff for the weak early game never comes to fruition. I don't mind having a weak early game, I do mind getting out scaled when I am suppose to hit my power spike by other champions that have better early games. I don't know your ranked, but Nasus feels pretty useless at most points in the game. Probably in Gold or lower he is still fine, but he is pretty hard to play well the higher you go because player punish him better. Even if I don't die and stack well I still feel "useless" relative to other champions because they have escapes, mobility, or hard CC. There isn't much reason to play him over {{champion:164}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:114}} or {{champion:23}}. Most of those champions can 1v1 him too in longer games. Probably not tryn.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 6
Dear Meddler, Is {{champion:75}} going to receive his annual compensation buffs for being indirectly nerfed? Conquerer, changes to talisman, sterak's changes, and any rune changes in the tank tree have all really hurt his early laning phase. He also doesn't spike nearly as hard in the mid game even if he stacks diligently and avoids early deaths because he can't load up on early CDR. He just doesn't scale or have much of a hard spike and the snowball nature of the game at the moment makes him feel...very irrelevant. There is very little reason to play him over several other champions that can go top that scale so well, such as {{champion:164}} that can do Nasus's job better. I am a Nasus one trick sitting in high platinum and my joy for the game has been very low this season because Nasus feels considerably weak at almost all points in the game. I am punished in the early game, I don't spike as hard in the mid game, and I am kited out in the long games or I am outscaled. I never achieve raidboss status and I am just a split-push bot with no mobility.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 30
Hi Meddler! Nasus has received annual buffs the last two seasons when his win rate fell. Will Nasus be examined before the end of this season? I am a Nasus one-trick and he feels considerably weak since the end of preseason. The introduction of conquerer, the lack of starting CDR, changes to runes like bone planting, and the changes to items like Talisman have all indirectly hurt him. The subsequent sterak's change also hurts TF{{champion:75}} , but buffs opponents. He feels pretty below average to play in high platinum and low diamond. I never really hit a "power spike" like I use to with stacks. Any chance that his Siphoning strike cooldown at early levels could be lowered to be in line with 10 to 15% starting CDR? Or slight buff to early base stats? He goes to lane with about 665 health with a starting doran's shield and the tank tree. Even better would be an increased wither range while using his ultimate. That would provide him stronger teamfighting power.
: 2 Years later I'm still high Silver. WHY?? ;-;
Actively try to learn how to play the game and improve. If you are still only silver after two years of playing than you are doing something fundamentally wrong over and over and over again. Go to summoner school, it's a subreddit that is dedicated towards learning how to play the game.
: i dont think anyone beside mains wants nasus to be strong tbh, he is almost impossible to kill 1vs1 late
Anyone that tries to 1v1 Nasus late is an idiot. You shouldn't be 1v1ing Nasus post level 9 or so ever unless he was put behind in the early game.
: http://www.probuilds.net/champions/details/Nasus Stats don't lie and virtually nobody builds builds that item on your shit champ
Probuilds is a terrible site to use for build assessment. For Nasus specifically a lot of the higher Elo player E Max or the games don't go long enough to build Sterak's. Even then it is the 6th most popular item on Nasus, so the site you used to support your argument refutes your claim that "no one builds it." In general if you look at most Nasus one tricks it is an item they build later in games if they aren't E Maxing.
: This is not nerfing nasus at all because nobody builds this item as it is awful on him
Yeah, you have no idea what you are talking about. Sterak's is a pretty common item 4th or 5th on Nasus if ahead.
heroikc (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=The Cane Master,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aceyidGl,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-21T00:09:22.350+0000) > > I am not refusing that those 13 other champions need as much improvements/buffs than {{champion:75}}. However, I am posting about {{champion:75}} only, to each their own. > > Context on this, btw given in the topic link, clearly says: > > {{item:3053}} : > [Removed] +50% Base Attack Damage > [New Effect] UNIQUE Passive - Giant Strength: Gain 50% of your Base Attack Damage as Bonus Attack Damage > > {{champion:75}} does not have any bonus AD scaling, rather base AD scaling with {{item:3078}} . Oh....and how many Nasus players build sterak's gage on him? I don't think Nasus is played enough to warrant any buffs to compensate for an "indirect nerf" that may not really affect his overall gameplay. Now if {{item:3078}} were to be nerfed, he will need a buff. But Sterak's gage? Not really.
Sterak's is a pretty common item on Nasus players that are ahead...
An Draoi (NA)
: He's extremely hard to kite, especially if you're not very mobile. Some tanks aren't. Outside of mobility spells, his Wither is crippling over that duration. And I disagree really. You should HAVE to kite his late game, he was originally designed to be a late game powerhouse juggernaut. But his "late game" is much earlier than it used to be.
Hit late game stinks and his early game stinks. He is a mid game champion.
An Draoi (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Swiftstrike4,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nAJWwdXJ,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-04-25T10:10:15.388+0000) > > Nasus probably needs another buff to his kit. But yes his ultimate has been buffed multiple times, but all it does is initially even out his win rate and then it dips again as the season progresses. > > He is so easily kited that he needs the defensive steroids. > > Seriously, Nasus can build full tank, have a defensive steroid, do a % shred on his E, and has lower cooldown on his Q and yet...he still sucks at team fighting and his win rate is always modest to low. > > He feels really bad this season since the end of preseason and the indirect nerfs he had from rune changes. Hes really only easily kited if hes fighting multiple people or his opponent has a kiting ability. Otherwise, wither does all the work for him
Most champions have a dash or a knock up. If they don't they have CC. And most player by Platinum are smart enough to juggle Nasus and to never 1v1 after he has spiked. It is in lower elo (Bronze, Silver, and a bit in Gold) that the players walk up to Nasus and try to 1v1 him. The only reason players with dashes die to Nasus is if they are alone or they use their dash to engage and realize it was a bad idea. I'm sitting in Plat 1 and rarely (rarely) does a player try to 1v1 me after spiking without any assistance. Not to mention summoners. You know how many times I get kited out but burn all the enemies summoners? Every game there is probably one time where I burn two or three flashes and still die. It's all about positioning. If you position poorly you will be punished by Nasus if you do not have help and you use your skills improperly. I almost never try to fully engage in a 1v1 unless I know where the enemy is on the map.
: [Gameplay] Nasus q can go through untargetable now
I am a Nasus main, but this doesn't look like a bug. Once Nasus begins the process of swinging his Q down it will hit if the untargetability or flash is not timed prior. I kill players that flash over walls all the time because my Siphoning strike has begun the process of swinging. It looks close, but I think your untargetability was just a split-second too late. You may wan to test it in the practice took.
: I think it’s funny that you still have to ban pantheon to enjoy top lane at all as a melee
I will take Pantheon over a lot of other top laners every single game. Illaoi and GP are matchups I don't enjoy, but it does depend on the skill of the GP. Good GPs I don't want to play against. Average ones I will deal with. I main Nasus too and I just E Max against him and push him out of lane. Not worth trying to stack and Risk dying. He has shit sustain so it is pretty easy to shove him out.
: > [{quoted}](name=Swiftstrike4,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FZoxmXco,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2018-05-12T09:31:58.295+0000) > > If Nasus didn't have that slow he would literally be useless considering how much mobility and cc there is in the game. His slow lasts for like 5 seconds and isn't only a slow, but a massive attack speed reduction as well. Darius doesn't have mobility but he seems to be doing alright. His slow should at least be a skillshot to give it some counterplay.
Counterplay? It's a single target potent slow because if he doesn't have that he loses to any duelist with mobility. The also probably loses most duels. How can Nasus catch any champion if they have a dash if wither is not as potent as it currently is? Darius and Nasus aren't really comparable. Both are immobile and do damage but Darius has a grab that pulls his target to him and a slow. The grab also has armor penetration too! He also wins prolonged fights if he lands his q and activates his passive. Most competent players can literally just use their mobility if they get withered to get away. E.G. Tryndamere engages nasus. Nasus wither's Trynd, Trynd spins away in response to his wither. Nasus walks to Trynd and by the time he gets to him his wither effects are off. Same with Jax, Camille, Fiora, and any other top that has mobility escape. Nasus usually has to land 2 withers on a target to catch and hit them. Not one. In team fights the slow is potent but mikaels and qss negate it and most ADCs that use one of those items against with will probably because to kite and duel him before Nasus can get in range to land damage. Wither holds Nasus's entire kit together and if it was any less potent or on a longer cooldown or harder to use than Nasus would never be able to gap close to any target.
: And that sounds like an excuse to defend a fictional title, playing for several hours a day for years sounds more experienced; everyone is going to perform better when they have top of the line computers on an isolated server, so those pros are just as mediocre to me. My point is I was only asking for an example, not a life story. I was more curious about their unavoidable self-peel, yeah you can slow them, but they both can create a fixed distance regardless of speed; how do you deal with that? Or are you also getting cooldown reduction to keep them slowed as your mana allows?
Your first point doesn't make any sense and is unrelated. Never once discussed PC specs.. Peripherals don't mean much and neither do computer specs. I play on a keyboard that is 11 years old, a monitor that is 7 or 8 years old, and a pretty mid-tier PC. It comes off pretty rude when you asked a question. You just drop your pool on them. The range on Nasus's pool is really far is wide and far. It will hit most champions that are ranged and I will be out of their AA range. Their self peel doesn't matter too much since I just use the spirit fire to zone them, get CS, and do damage. You can easily take it in the practice tool to see how far it can go. Far enough of a cast to hit most ranged champions. Maybe Caitlyn would be able to AA me and still avoid most of the pool damage, but Vayne, Quinn, Teemo, and Jayce can't. All have pretty short AA range. I take corrupting potion and buy a doran's ring on the first back. Pop the corrupting potion before I intend to drop a pool. I don't try to kill them (I don't wither them unless I think I can kill) but they take a lot of damage from Nasus's Spirit fire and most don't bother building any MR. They won't have enough sustain early to farm safely and avoid damage from my E. Usually I push them out of lane after 5 spirit fire drops. If they stay longer they could simply die to subsequent drops. Maxing spirit fire is pretty common in tough matchups for Nasus. You can still CS with it and it does a lot of damage with early points. A lot of players don't think Nasus players will max their spirit fire, but the higher you go the more often they will need to in tough matchups to avoid missing CS. I max my spririt fire against other matchups too where I can't get close to melee, like pantheon, darius, or olaf.
: My only issue with Nasus is his RIDICULOUS point and click slow. It's far too long and after a second you might as well be stunned because it's either flash or tank at least 3 Qs.
If Nasus didn't have that slow he would literally be useless considering how much mobility and cc there is in the game.
: For one I am explaining how your mentality, and your excuses arent good enough to prove how you learn more from playing with lower level players rather then people of your level. And that you seem to know exactly how every single silver and gold player thinks. Also if you are first timing a champion you dont play them in ranked period. Play them in normals, you dont ruin anyones game that way.Also are we talking about first timing a champion or spilt pushing? Or is the first timing a split-pushing champion? If so again you can go to normals, In fact it would be better to split in normals because it literally doesnt matter if you lose. Another thing is if you are plat( not boosted) regardless of if you paly a champion for the first time there is literally no way, because your marco and mechanics will be at the level of a plat player, so even your first time is at a higher level. Again how is it that you improve more at a lower level rather then a level that is the same? What specific skills do you gain that you wouldnt gain at a higher level compared to at a lower level then your own. That is like saying that as a 9th grader by reading childrens books I gain more knowledge then reading actual 9th grade books. It doesnt make any sense. And I already know your going to replay to this argument saying you can if you are learning the basics but then that would mean you didnt even deserve to be in that elo and it was luck, you need to at least have the basics to reach that level. Also for your Calculus example that would be like actually not even having the basics of math down yet somehow passing all the way to reach the level to actually take Calculus meaning you didnt even have basic math figured out. I may not for something else, but it does in league or else you wouldnt actually have anything to show your progress. If you are improving you are essentially winning more by working to improve the thing you want. That is how you track progress in league, for example if you are improving on a specific champion you win more on it. If you are improving with split pushing then you start winning more because you are split pushing effectively. Again there is nothing stopping you from doing this on your main account in fact it would be better to, because there is actually pressure involved that you would not find in gold/silver. Marco is better mechanics too, so you would have actual challenges when someone is coming to 1v1 you. If you are 1v1 against a player that isnt even as good as you how do you improve in that area? If you split push yet the players barely look at their own minimap, because they dont have enough awareness how can you actually be improving? You yourself should know the difference in level of play, so again how can you actually gain anything from playing against lower level players then you?
I typed up a pretty long response and then realize that it was a waste of time because you believe that you can't learn anything from smurfing at a lower elo, which I completely disagree with and most higher elo players would also disagree with. Just because you are a Diamond top laner doesn't mean you are a diamond mid laner and playing mid lane on a smurf if you are learning is better in a ranked setting than a normal setting.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 11
Yo meddler, Is there any chance that this solo changes will help Nasus? I am sitting in high platinum as a {{champion:75}} one-trick and I feel completely incapable of carrying a game, even if I stack well and avoid early deaths. I almost always die to adcs and other champions come mid game and I feel like I never truly hit a power spike. Will these changes help him? Will he get a future buff? I play this game to play him with 2 million mastery on Nasus. He doesn't feel like he gets any rewards anymore and conquerer is making early laning much harder without simply maxing his spirit fire.
: So you have essentially you have proved my point that you can go into games and ruin them for others, you can improve while wanting to win, that is how you track you progress. If you go into games and essentially go into them not even wanting to play with your team but split push you can lose games for people. Also it seem like you just to scared to lose elo in your main account to learn. So instead you find it better to possibly lose elo for ppl in lower elo's, I am not saying that you are always going to lose, but you will lose a lot doing something you are not good at. Also you still havent disproved my point that playing at a lower level is some how going to improve you more then playing in your own elo. All you are proving is that you are to scared to lose elo in your main account to improve, so you'd rather lose elo in a lower elo for others.
Believe what you want kid because at this point you aren't really saying anything substantive beside repeating your misled arguments. I am not going to play a new champion on my main account in ranked because I climbed playing specific champions. Taking a new champion into a ranked game that you have never played is a good way to lose your rank, that much is true. But if my skill is the same or close to the same level on that champion in silver or gold the game is relatively fair going on a smurf. Playing at a lower rank lead to me practicing specific skills that then lead to improvement on my main. Simple as that. I was not a good split-pusher, went on a smurf, practiced it, and now I am a good split-pusher because I dedicated a lot of time towards it. That's how most players improve at this game. Sure I could have just dedicated time on my main account towards splitting, but I probably wouldn't have incrementally learned anything. It would be like taking a Calculus 3 course and not knowing pre-calculus. Also winning doesn't always equate to improving. A lot of players in league play to win, but not to improve. If you are only playing to win you will just be streaky and once you hit your peak elo you will sit at 50% win rate if you put no time into figuring out why you aren't winning. Most of the players in silver are playing to win. They aren't critically thinking about their games, their mistakes, their positioning, etc. They are in silver because they aren't taking the next steps to improve, which is why 70% of the player base is Bronze or Silver. They mindlessly grind games thinking that winning and improving is the same thing. If you improve you simply will begin to win. You can win without improving all the time, but usually it is followed by loss streaks going the other way.
: Don't care about your rank; but nice to see smarter junglers that know to cripple late game champions early.
Rank implies that I have faced and seen counter picks (a lot) and have had success against them. Counter picks don't really matter too much until Diamondish and champion proficiency and game knowledge is more important. I have faced so many top vaynes/quinns in gold that simply don't understand how favorable that matchup is if Nasus maxes E.
: So? Honor level 4 means nothing, most people give it to the player who did the best that game it means nothing, if seen people with honors who shit talk losing lanes in gold, it means nothing. Also your attitude toward lower elo players is toxic I dont care about you personally, saying that all Low elo players do not want to get better and due to that they are in that elo is toxic thinking. I never said it wasnt useful to split push in gold, I said you would gain more from learning to split push in plat then you would in gold. You are playing and spliting in a higher level, more map awareness, better reaction time, more wards being placed. Everything is at a higher level, so how is spliting in gold helping you more when you can learn the same thing in a higher level? If you learn it at a higher level you will learn more and be better then if you learned it in gold.
Well if you do have honor 4 it means you aren't toxic or receiving punishments. Once you get punished you lose honor, simple as that. And it takes a lot to recoup it. I actually don't honor people every game either for the "extra honor" you get. I probably honor players once every 4 or 5 games, so me honoring others didn't expedite the process. A lot of low elo players are just trying to win, they aren't trying to improve. I have smurfed in low elo and silver is pretty toxic and a vast majority of the players in silver just want to blame teammates instead of accounting for the mistakes they make in game. They simply deflect. Some also don't know how to improve. They just play a large volume of games making a lot of the same mistakes because they don't identify what they are doing wrong themselves. Some are trying to improve, but most are fixated on winning and not improving. Most of getting better at this game is attitude. If they are focused on losing because of "bad teammates" and spend the game harassing them, those players aren't trying to improve in my eyes. That's a lot of silver. Mid gold or so the players are generally nice. And I wasn't a good split-pusher. I got to Plat IV and noticed that my split-pushing was less effective. Sat in plat iv for probably half the season last year. I played on my smurf to practice split-pushing and just really practicing splitting instead of "trying to win" helped me improve a lot at it. Essentially I got to an elo where the basic tactics weren't working and I had to figure out what would work and tried different stuff. The practice helped and my smurf got to the same elo as my main. My main account finished in Plat II and my smurf finished in Plat III last season. Splitting on my smurf and trying out different ways to split became applicable to my main.
: Have you done it and have proof?
Yes, I one trick Nasus (Currently Plat 2) and I have faced plenty of ranged champions. E Maxing versus ranged matchups is how most Nasus mains should play the lane. Fairly easy to deal with ranged matchups if needed. I stopped seeing top vayne in mid or high gold. Top Vayne is pretty terrible since my jungle knows she has a weak laning phase. Usually junglers are smart enough to shut down top vayne, which is why I completely stopped seeing it once hitting platinum.
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Swiftstrike4

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