: > [{quoted}](name=Syrile,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ARTEbZ1E,comment-id=0002000000000001,timestamp=2019-09-07T00:53:30.565+0000) > > The problem with this is that none of those champions has both ridiculous damage, and sustain. Mixed with all of his other overloaded kit and massively broken ultimate. > They have a role. Defender. > He literally functions as a limitless sustain, super safe, assassin that is also a built-in funnel comp. > Clear difference in power level in that kit. Pyke doesn't have ridiculous damage. As an assassin support, he has more CC than a plain assassin, but also less damage. He's unlikely to solo kill anything. Those who want a support with damage tend to go with a mage, like Brand or Zyra. A lot of Pyke's power is rolled into chaining his ult. Pyke has sustain from champion damage taken, and only when out of sight. Minions, turrets, Baron, etc. don't give him grey health, and he can only turn that into actual health if he manages to flee a fight before getting killed.
> [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ARTEbZ1E,comment-id=00020000000000010000,timestamp=2019-09-07T01:21:23.428+0000) > > Pyke doesn't have ridiculous damage. As an assassin support, he has more CC than a plain assassin, but also less damage. He's unlikely to solo kill anything. Those who want a support with damage tend to go with a mage, like Brand or Zyra. A lot of Pyke's power is rolled into chaining his ult. > > Pyke has sustain from champion damage taken, and only when out of sight. Minions, turrets, Baron, etc. don't give him grey health, and he can only turn that into actual health if he manages to flee a fight before getting killed. And yet.. none of this even matters. It is extremely easy to break vision with someone who can stealth, who can even regen while Ignite is on them. As for damage... Burst mages do more damage than him, sure, but again, none of them have his ridiculous safety or obscenely easy CC. His kit is overloaded, overtuned, and overpowered for one specific reason and everyone except Pyke mains knows it.
Kazekiba (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Syrile,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xpv4k3gf,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2019-09-05T15:55:14.228+0000) > > So much could be said about this... > But this was never mentioned as a problem by most players until Riot said this was an issue in pro play. > In fact, 0.75 seconds to low elo means almost nothing so wasting a low elo flash on a 0.75 second root meant absolutely nothing except you are down a flash. > > The problem with Ryze was at high levels he was extremely powerful. > There was nothing "unhealthy" about him. > Annie has an AoE stun that is stronger. > Ahri has a charm that is easier to land with her ultimate and still has dashes to escape and true damage. > The list of things that prove this statement wrong is so long it could not fit in a message on here. Annie AoE stuns are targeted, and ever since the Mage update Summon Tibbers is easier to dodge than it is to hit if you have a brain and/or flash Ahri charm is a single-target skillshot on a 24 second CD that can be blocked by minions Ryze Rune Prison is a point-and-click root with no drawback, no windows of set up to make it happen, results in a kill 50% of the time especially if theyre melee, and has fuckall for Cooldown. Along with having an ult that does fuckall for winning fights, Rune Prison is the entire reason Ryze has been reworked 6 times.
> [{quoted}](name=Kazekiba,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xpv4k3gf,comment-id=000400010001,timestamp=2019-09-05T21:03:19.553+0000) > > Annie AoE stuns are targeted, and ever since the Mage update Summon Tibbers is easier to dodge than it is to hit if you have a brain and/or flash > > Ahri charm is a single-target skillshot on a 24 second CD that can be blocked by minions > > Ryze Rune Prison is a point-and-click root with no drawback, no windows of set up to make it happen, results in a kill 50% of the time especially if theyre melee, and has fuckall for Cooldown. > Along with having an ult that does fuckall for winning fights, Rune Prison is the entire reason Ryze has been reworked 6 times. Oh, I realize that I did not mention... Flash+Stun-Tibbers is exactly why Annie is so strong into some matchups and why her mains are so defensive of her. It is not hard to land at all. Flash+Charm is impossible to dodge really with Ahri, if you are decent, but she can do it with just /one/ of her three ultimate dashes as well... and the duration is longer than Rune Prison and actually buffs her damage. So yeah... again, wrong.
GigglesO (NA)
: I swear talon used to have a shorter range on his rake. Honestly that was some of the counterplay to assassins, low range... Now that alot of them have been reworked, and have longer ranges (see leblank revert complaints about longer tether range) they have even less counterplay.
> [{quoted}](name=GigglesO,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BQIZwYHe,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2019-09-05T22:36:02.879+0000) > > I swear talon used to have a shorter range on his rake. > > Honestly that was some of the counterplay to assassins, low range... Now that alot of them have been reworked, and have longer ranges (see leblank revert complaints about longer tether range) they have even less counterplay. Yeah... it feels like it. I think that is more that Riot's game is broken in general. Too many skill shots "hit" when they very clearly miss. Talon is by far the most broken champion for how easy he is to play and offers absolutely no counter-play against a decent player of equal skill unless your team is coordinated, like pro games. At Master+ his ban/pick/win rate is still absurd so the whole whining about "high elo can out play him" is a lie.
Kazekiba (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Syrile,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xpv4k3gf,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2019-09-05T15:55:14.228+0000) > > So much could be said about this... > But this was never mentioned as a problem by most players until Riot said this was an issue in pro play. > In fact, 0.75 seconds to low elo means almost nothing so wasting a low elo flash on a 0.75 second root meant absolutely nothing except you are down a flash. > > The problem with Ryze was at high levels he was extremely powerful. > There was nothing "unhealthy" about him. > Annie has an AoE stun that is stronger. > Ahri has a charm that is easier to land with her ultimate and still has dashes to escape and true damage. > The list of things that prove this statement wrong is so long it could not fit in a message on here. Annie AoE stuns are targeted, and ever since the Mage update Summon Tibbers is easier to dodge than it is to hit if you have a brain and/or flash Ahri charm is a single-target skillshot on a 24 second CD that can be blocked by minions Ryze Rune Prison is a point-and-click root with no drawback, no windows of set up to make it happen, results in a kill 50% of the time especially if theyre melee, and has fuckall for Cooldown. Along with having an ult that does fuckall for winning fights, Rune Prison is the entire reason Ryze has been reworked 6 times.
> [{quoted}](name=Kazekiba,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xpv4k3gf,comment-id=000400010001,timestamp=2019-09-05T21:03:19.553+0000) > > Annie AoE stuns are targeted, and ever since the Mage update Summon Tibbers is easier to dodge than it is to hit if you have a brain and/or flash > > Ahri charm is a single-target skillshot on a 24 second CD that can be blocked by minions > > Ryze Rune Prison is a point-and-click root with no drawback, no windows of set up to make it happen, results in a kill 50% of the time especially if theyre melee, and has fuckall for Cooldown. > Along with having an ult that does fuckall for winning fights, Rune Prison is the entire reason Ryze has been reworked 6 times. Hmm... Funny how Riot, pro analysts, pro teams, pro players, all think otherwise. The Paladin-Play was removed because of his ultimate being too strong. His ultimate has and always will be the biggest problem for that version of Ryze when it came to pro play when Vision meta was a thing. In modern day, his versatility was why. Pro players are good enough to bring Cleanse (novel idea? Much shorter CC than Flash and completely counters the Flash-Rune Prison strat) thus this is less oppressive than some would like to claim. Ryze has insane damage, good laning, good sustain, and ridiculously scaling as well as a game-changing ultimate. That is why he was reworked. Rune prison was just something weaker players complained about.
: > [{quoted}](name=Syrile,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ARTEbZ1E,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-09-05T16:18:38.059+0000) > > Which of those champions does damage like Pyke does, while having stealth, scaling on Lethality of all things? and having an outright execute that is resettable and gives not only extra gold, but even boosts the gold beyond 2 kills per kill? Can Pyke provide his allies with extra armor? Can he heal them? Can he gain extra MR/armor even for himself? Can he dash an ally to him? Can he intercept projectiles? Different champions are different. That heal is what Pyke needs to not be instantly shoved out of lane every time he shows up. The point of the Lethality scaling is to stop him from building armor/MR, the resetting execute is a skillshot, and the gold is intended to allow him to take kills without putting the carry behind (although the number probably still needs tweaking). All of these are separate issues from the one at hand, though.
> [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ARTEbZ1E,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-09-05T16:24:07.247+0000) > > Can Pyke provide his allies with extra armor? Can he heal them? Can he gain extra MR/armor even for himself? Can he dash an ally to him? Can he intercept projectiles? > > Different champions are different. That heal is what Pyke needs to not be instantly shoved out of lane every time he shows up. > > The point of the Lethality scaling is to stop him from building armor/MR, the resetting execute is a skillshot, and the gold is intended to allow him to take kills without putting the carry behind (although the number probably still needs tweaking). All of these are separate issues from the one at hand, though. The problem with this is that none of those champions has both ridiculous damage, and sustain. Mixed with all of his other overloaded kit and massively broken ultimate. They have a role. Defender. He literally functions as a limitless sustain, super safe, assassin that is also a built-in funnel comp. Clear difference in power level in that kit.
: > [{quoted}](name=Syrile,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ARTEbZ1E,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-09-05T16:07:25.546+0000) > > Deletion. > The cost of Pyke should be deletion. > He needs to be removed from the game. iv yet to see riot do that the first champion that should of been deleted was zed then yasuo now i see pyke and morde as well as toxic kits.
> [{quoted}](name=Ninja Anubis,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ARTEbZ1E,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-09-05T16:24:43.509+0000) > > iv yet to see riot do that the first champion that should of been deleted was zed then yasuo now i see pyke and morde as well as toxic kits. Yeah.. but of course Riot.
: On top of 30 mana being an insane number that would drain Pyke's entire health bar after a single engage, that heal is Pyke's only defensive ability/steroid to deal with being poked as a melee squishy who can't even gain bonus health. Taric has extra armor with W and a heal with Q, Leona has armor/MR with W, Braum has armor/MR with W and an intercept with E, Thresh has armor with passive stacks and a shield with W, and so on. Most of those abilities can apply to allies, as well, while Pyke can only heal himself and it doesn't help him during an engage.
> [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ARTEbZ1E,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-09-05T16:14:19.812+0000) > > On top of 30 mana being an insane number that would drain Pyke's entire health bar after a single engage, that heal is Pyke's only defensive ability/steroid to deal with being poked as a melee squishy who can't even gain bonus health. Taric has extra armor with W and a heal with Q, Leona has armor/MR with W, Braum has armor/MR with W and an intercept with E, Thresh has armor with passive stacks and a shield with W, and so on. Most of those abilities can apply to allies, as well, while Pyke can only heal himself and it doesn't help him during an engage. Which of those champions does damage like Pyke does, while having stealth, scaling on Lethality of all things? and having an outright execute that is resettable and gives not only extra gold, but even boosts the gold beyond 2 kills per kill?
: > [{quoted}](name=Syrile,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ARTEbZ1E,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-09-05T16:07:25.546+0000) > > Deletion. > The cost of Pyke should be deletion. > He needs to be removed from the game. While I do agree, we can only dream.
> [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ARTEbZ1E,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-09-05T16:13:33.144+0000) > > While I do agree, we can only dream. Le sigh... We can dream, I suppose...
: Can we have 2 bans each?
Honestly... My bans go towards the boring matchups. There are tons of cancerous, broken champions to ban, depending on which patch it is, which skins are out, and what season we are going into. With the exception that Yasuo, Riven, Ahri, Lux, Ezreal, and Talon are almost exclusively powerful at all times. Oh, and I guess we add Pyke to this list because Riot really wants to push this idea that "Anyone can win" and wants G2 to prove it. But whatever... So, I ban Ahri or Lux because mid lane is riddled with them, literally, 70%+ of my games has one of them, if not both and while the match is not particularly dangerous to most of my champions and I can play around them in a million ways, the matchup is sooooo boring because it is sooooooo common that I would just like to see new champions. The few times it is not them it is Yasuo (whom I love to punish) and lately Neeko (who is stronger than all of those to be honest) or Talon (which is stronger than all of them including Neeko). Yet, I ban the boring matchups. I think maybe just deleting about 10-20 champions would help more though. :D
musixxal (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Syrile,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xpv4k3gf,comment-id=0004000100000000,timestamp=2019-09-05T16:04:28.100+0000) > > Wait... I thought you meant Ryze. -_- > Hahaha > Not Aurelion Sol. > I had this almost identical answer about the "broken" root of Ryze's and it was right after my post about Ryze. > Sorry, haha. > > However, this whole thing about Aurelion Sol being bad for the game is kinda nonsense. > He was played so infrequently by so few people he was hardly warping the game around him. > He was extremely powerful for the like 3 people who played him at the very highest level. Even Faker did not play him at the level that was truly broken. -_- he was palyed infrequently after being olaf'd. before that he was pick/ban.
> [{quoted}](name=musixxal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xpv4k3gf,comment-id=00040001000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-05T16:07:08.783+0000) > > he was palyed infrequently after being olaf'd. > before that he was pick/ban. When he first came out, sure. He was super busted. But shortly after he was exceedingly niche, with only around 3 pro players being able to even use him and even then, they rarely picked him. In regular elo, he is very punishable and had tons of ways of just killing him. Especially in modern day League, is simply too slow to really matter. Which is part of why they reworked him. They made him dumbed down. Riot literally does not care at all what is healthy for the game. They care about drawing in casuals to spend money and eSports.
: Pyke’s regen needs a actual cost.
Deletion. The cost of Pyke should be deletion. He needs to be removed from the game.
musixxal (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Syrile,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xpv4k3gf,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2019-09-05T15:55:14.228+0000) > > So much could be said about this... > But this was never mentioned as a problem by most players until Riot said this was an issue in pro play. > In fact, 0.75 seconds to low elo means almost nothing so wasting a low elo flash on a 0.75 second root meant absolutely nothing except you are down a flash. > > The problem with Ryze was at high levels he was extremely powerful. > There was nothing "unhealthy" about him. > Annie has an AoE stun that is stronger. > Ahri has a charm that is easier to land with her ultimate and still has dashes to escape and true damage. > The list of things that prove this statement wrong is so long it could not fit in a message on here. when asol was new the gimmick with him was you W the wave. and W the enemy reptors from over the wall. pushes faster than anything in the game. opponent can't do anything else but farm under turret. none of your examples even match this on any level, you don't get that though, you think this is about CC applied or something, no it's about how the champions interact with the creep wave. Asol does not allow his opponent to interact with the creep wave in his old guise, that's bad gamplay hence why he got removed from the meta with a very strong nerf bat. you guys in here saying you don't like the new gameplay, rito doesn't care about you, neither does anyone who pays attention to what gameplay variants champions bring to the game.
> [{quoted}](name=musixxal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xpv4k3gf,comment-id=000400010000,timestamp=2019-09-05T16:01:15.599+0000) > > when asol was new the gimmick with him was you W the wave. > and W the enemy reptors from over the wall. > pushes faster than anything in the game. > opponent can't do anything else but farm under turret. > > none of your examples even match this on any level, you don't get that though, you think this is about CC applied or something, no it's about how the champions interact with the creep wave. > Asol does not allow his opponent to interact with the creep wave in his old guise, that's bad gamplay hence why he got removed from the meta with a very strong nerf bat. > you guys in here saying you don't like the new gameplay, rito doesn't care about you, neither does anyone who pays attention to what gameplay variants champions bring to the game. Wait... I thought you meant Ryze. -_- Hahaha Not Aurelion Sol. I had this almost identical answer about the "broken" root of Ryze's and it was right after my post about Ryze. Sorry, haha. However, this whole thing about Aurelion Sol being bad for the game is kinda nonsense. He was played so infrequently by so few people he was hardly warping the game around him. He was extremely powerful for the like 3 people who played him at the very highest level. Even Faker did not play him at the level that was truly broken. -_-
Anatera (NA)
: It's very funny to see Sylas solo kill basically everybody because of his overloaded sustain
But he'z so skilz'd and awesomeseses in pro'playz!!!! Muzt keepz strong! Thus... we have this trash invading our games all the time. I personally love Sylas.. but Riot needs to stop with the overloaded champions but they never will because bad players feel like they are pros playing them and they think it looks cool in pro play.
: i wouldnt say pyke is a huge problem, although the buff to his income from ult wasn't necessary
> [{quoted}](name=DemonicWolfs,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kp63uufP,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-09-05T15:53:26.545+0000) > > i wouldnt say pyke is a huge problem, although the buff to his income from ult wasn't necessary In Platinum+ ranked play, Pyke has a 49.19% ban rate, still has a 14.78% pick rate. His low-end winrate is 50.88% with that winrate jumping to 59.38% after 50 games on Pyke. There is a person in NA with an 88% winrate on him. These numbers are not conducive to a fun or healthy game at all.
musixxal (EUW)
: his old W is unhealthy gameplay bro. you gonna have to get over it.
> [{quoted}](name=musixxal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xpv4k3gf,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-09-05T15:45:39.876+0000) > > his old W is unhealthy gameplay bro. > you gonna have to get over it. So much could be said about this... But this was never mentioned as a problem by most players until Riot said this was an issue in pro play. In fact, 0.75 seconds to low elo means almost nothing so wasting a low elo flash on a 0.75 second root meant absolutely nothing except you are down a flash. The problem with Ryze was at high levels he was extremely powerful. There was nothing "unhealthy" about him. Annie has an AoE stun that is stronger. Ahri has a charm that is easier to land with her ultimate and still has dashes to escape and true damage. The list of things that prove this statement wrong is so long it could not fit in a message on here.
: > [{quoted}](name=Syrile,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xpv4k3gf,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-09-05T15:23:33.784+0000) > > It is literally all about making bad players feel like they are amazing. > Take Ryze, for example. > He was a high-skill champion with a lot of versatility and skill expression. > His combos, when performed correctly, felt rewarding and had a high impact on the fight. The champion himself had a high impact on the game if you can play him, despite being abysmally low on any tier list because he was so difficult to play. > > Then.... they made his E + Q do all the work for you and you get that little rush of excitement when you blow up a wave of minions and get all that gold that previously would have required you to properly set up the wave and use your skills correctly. > > Same for using your combos properly to do maximum damage or whatever you wanted to do with him at the time. > Now, you just poor out the damage while randomly rolling your face on the keyboard. Nice. > > Almost all other champions have gotten this treatment. They are just trying to finish up on the ones that have not yet (Like Aurelion Sol is getting now). It is disgusting. I did not play Ryze at all, but I know he was harder b4. But ye, personally I do not find enjoyment in this. I thought we had different champions so we could pick a different playstyle. For example "Annie feels too easy and boring, I want to try out Azir, he is more of a challenge to play! So for that matter, Azir is considered more skill capped of a champion, and that is good! Azir is DIFFERENT in that way. And Annie is considered more of a low skill capped, and that is also good! Because then different players can enjoy the game! Not saying that mastering Annie is easy, because mastering a champ is completely different. But back to Ryze, ye, so what if he is difficult? Is it not fun to have a wide diversity? Does every champ have to have the same strength and weaknesses? I do not think so. Reward those players who knows how to play old Ryze, those who find old Ryze too hard too handle, i assume will pick another champion. (I am sorry if you enjoyed Ryze before and now dont btw)
> [{quoted}](name=Blå drake,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xpv4k3gf,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-05T15:34:00.804+0000) > > I did not play Ryze at all, but I know he was harder b4. But ye, personally I do not find enjoyment in this. I thought we had different champions so we could pick a different playstyle. For example "Annie feels too easy and boring, I want to try out Azir, he is more of a challenge to play! > > So for that matter, Azir is considered more skill capped of a champion, and that is good! Azir is DIFFERENT in that way. And Annie is considered more of a low skill capped, and that is also good! Because then different players can enjoy the game! Not saying that mastering Annie is easy, because mastering a champ is completely different. > > But back to Ryze, ye, so what if he is difficult? Is it not fun to have a wide diversity? Does every champ have to have the same strength and weaknesses? I do not think so. Reward those players who knows how to play old Ryze, those who find old Ryze too hard too handle, i assume will pick another champion. > > (I am sorry if you enjoyed Ryze before and now dont btw) Yeah, he was vastly harder to play. And far more enjoyable as well. Azir is similar. I love Azir, even if he has been dumbed down some, he is still not particularly easy. Ryze is still kinda fun but not nearly on the level that he once was. I loved that League used to have different levels of champions before but this is going away. And previously, that would keep players from picking those champions until they were good enough. Now, they just play whatever because they are all essentially becoming the same.
GigglesO (NA)
: I thnk assassins are uninteractive
Assassin mains want you to believe they require skill so they can tell you how awesome they are when they get 20 kills in a game by pressing two buttons. Example: Talon. Starts off the lane, gets level 2 (especially if you are still level one) by hard-pushing with W. Immediately raises Q, flashes to you, ignite, auto-Q-auto, doing this immediately after just barely nicking you with the "skill shot" of W that is impossible to miss. Many times he can kill you without even landing a whole combo. Such as if you flash away when he flashes, he can Q to you and still kill you many times. Definitely if you are still level 1. Very, very few champions can live through this all-in and certainly no squishy targets. So... you say there is counter-play to this? Just stay back and do not let him eh? Well.. problem is, he then controls the wave. Easily zoning you back from experience and CS as the wave starts towards you, he lands W on you at will. When you are equal level to him, he is now up in health. If you push out at all, he kills you on the spot. And so, say you are playing a mage against him... he has the highest MR of anyone in the game, added on his defense rune of MR, making him take significantly less damage from you, while having all-in potential at level 2 (sometimes even level one if you mess up), taking less poke damage than you take from his W and he has total control over the way the game is played. Now... you may try to say a mage has range... But I already pointed out the difference in MR but to further drive this home, almost all mages armor is really low at base. Add to that the armor rune for defense is 2 points lower than the MR rune. So, not only is he tougher than you, has better poke than you, but he even has more sustain (higher base health regen). In fact, his typical starting item of a long sword give him an advantage in getting his required items earlier. But let us really break this down. Say you actually turtle, giving up experience and gold to a talon player (which is what he needs, to be ahead). He then finishes his tiamat and mobility boots (because he is too powerful to really care about needing real boots)... And guess what happens? Your teammates become the gold source for him. Especially once he gets Duskblade and vision is literally meaningless at that point. The entire game becomes an attempt to not feed this person that can easily all-in kill almost anyone in the game with almost no skill required. My very first game playing this fellow I got first blood in the game by just doing the above combo. I then killed the enemy laner almost immediately when they returned to the game and then killed the JG that showed up right with them. The game was over at that point. His snowball is such that you lose once he is ahead, even with inexperience. Becoming invisible, diving over walls with nigh-infinite dashes and automatically deleting almost any target gives no chance for interaction. Which is, fundamentally, the core of almost every assassin. Half the AP assassins are actually somewhat interactive. Fizz, Ekko, etc all have pretty clear times to punish. Akali? Hahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha (just watch any pro game or high elo player) LeBlanc? Ummm...?? Talon? Millions of dashes, invisibility, tons of movement and insta-burst damage... Qiyana? Ranged CC, dashes, AoE Stuns and knockbacks... Yep.. Interactive... -_- Ahri? Hahahahahahaha.... Has three dashes, plus flash, ranged CC, true damage, AoE wave clear, healing.. Probably the single safest champion ever built with tons of damage and, as mentioned, CC???? Katarina? Yeah.. Super interactive there. Dash, kill, dash, kill, dash, AoE kill team, dash.... Pyke? Need I say more? The most uninteractive champion ever, including Yuumi Kayn? I mean... he walks through walls and literally becomes untargetable to kill someone from the inside... Also has multiple CCs and healing.... -_- And I can continue... I have made posts about this before but the usual assassin mains and Riot White-Knights will come swooping in from the heavens to tell you that they are high-skilled champions with impossible mechanics... Except you can pick them up in a handful of games (with like two-three exceptions).
: > [{quoted}](name=Syrile,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xpv4k3gf,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-09-05T15:00:11.256+0000) > > He is not flashy and does not auto-delete people with infinite dashes. > So umm.. The mains are just ignored in favor of dumbing him down for the casuals that want to pretend they are really good. > Like most other champions that get this treatment. You are onto something I am talking about. Why can't we keep our "weird playstyle champion" and they can just make a new one that everyone else plays. Did they not just realesed qyiana that deletes people?
> [{quoted}](name=Blå drake,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xpv4k3gf,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-09-05T15:08:30.317+0000) > > You are onto something I am talking about. Why can't we keep our "weird playstyle champion" and they can just make a new one that everyone else plays. Did they not just realesed qyiana that deletes people? It is literally all about making bad players feel like they are amazing. Take Ryze, for example. He was a high-skill champion with a lot of versatility and skill expression. His combos, when performed correctly, felt rewarding and had a high impact on the fight. The champion himself had a high impact on the game if you can play him, despite being abysmally low on any tier list because he was so difficult to play. Then.... they made his E + Q do all the work for you and you get that little rush of excitement when you blow up a wave of minions and get all that gold that previously would have required you to properly set up the wave and use your skills correctly. Same for using your combos properly to do maximum damage or whatever you wanted to do with him at the time. Now, you just poor out the damage while randomly rolling your face on the keyboard. Nice. Almost all other champions have gotten this treatment. They are just trying to finish up on the ones that have not yet (Like Aurelion Sol is getting now). It is disgusting.
Myrannya (NA)
: Will there ever be consequences to this?
Off-Meta is simple. It is a champion that is not considered optimal. Or a build that is not considered optimal. The difference is, Rakan cannot function in JG. Nor can Braum, for example. And not taking smite as a JG tells you they are trolling. Their actions in the game tell you they are trolling. Defending these types of players is the epitome of everything wrong with the game and shows you just how much people want this game to be filled with players that abuse other players and cause toxicity and cause the game to be unplayable. Defending this type of behavior should be bannable as well because it is clear this is a thing that the person defending it wants in the game. That means they are actively aiding griefers.
: Just delete Akali and get it over with
Delete Pyke. He is much more of a problem. Also, Lux and Ahri. But that is just my hate for them, not because they really matter. Though.. being at the top of the tier list for mid laners for several months is really getting old. Mid is always one of those two if they are not banned or picked somewhere else.
: List of things in aram that could improve.
Like... sooo many things wrong here. First, the problem with ARAM is two-fold. One, the idiotic adjustments made to the champions is total nonsense. Two, certain champions have kits plus builds that completely destroy the mode. Fiddlesticks, Soraka and Malphite are all totally unfun champions. More-so than most of the "OP" ones. Undodgeable Silence that goes off every few seconds plus a massive AoE Knockup that deals millions of damage (and is wonderful for say.. Yasuo?) is not fun either. The problem is not specifically that these champions exist but that the re-rolls, continual dodges, and ARAM accounts make these champions far too common in the game. Or, those champions and extremely strong champions in general. Gets really old, really fast.
iMaB3AST (NA)
: Pyke Nerf Idea
Delete the champion entirely. That would be a nice change. Take Lux and Ahri along with him.
: Aurelion Sol - Cannot a champion be unique, Riot?
He is not flashy and does not auto-delete people with infinite dashes. So umm.. The mains are just ignored in favor of dumbing him down for the casuals that want to pretend they are really good. Like most other champions that get this treatment.
: Increase in bots
Yes. Yes. And. Yes. Hail of Blades Zyra with Ghost and Heal Press the Attack Morgana (Both buying AP items) Comet Draven And oodles more, many times without Flash as a summoner and will have bot-like Summoner spells like Heal/Ignite or Heal/Ghost seems to be the most popular. The champion will then move in strange ways, randomly firing off abilities and doing things similar to an AI. This has become exceedingly common. Furthermore, they are randomly showing up right around level 30. Sometimes in the low-to-mid 20s and sometimes just over level 30.
RookieUS (NA)
: How can you learn characters without p*ssing people off?
Check a good website like Lolalytics or something else to get an idea of the champion's item builds and runes. Go into practice tool. Get a feel for each of the characters abilities. Learn how to CS with the champion (unless you are playing a support maybe). Know which abilities to max first. See how the damage trades off with a some AI that fits your lane in the practice tool. If you are a jungle, check to see how the clear feels to you. What camps you take, etc. If it feels comfortable enough to use, go into Draft. Play to win. Do not worry about what people say in chat if you do poorly. If it feels like you are still not comfortable with the basics, maybe run through another practice session. Do not rely on AI though. They are nearly useless. This is just to get an idea of how the abilities feel and how CSing (or clearing JG) feels. Stay in Draft until you feel very confident on the champion in most match-ups for your lane (assuming you not already high elo and thus very good at the game in general, which you said you were relatively new?). If you get reasonably confident in a majority of matchups with the champion, go into ranked when you feel ready. Otherwise, if people are flaming you, ignore it or let them know you are practicing the champion but you are still playing to win. Key thing: Play to win, even if you start losing. Adjust your style to match what is happening in the game. If you are getting trounced in lane, try not to feed and try to do other things to help your team win. It helps a ton in these cases. If you have even a single champion that you understand all of the matchups with, and you take each other champion into practice tool and run them through a time or two, you can get a good idea of how most matchups work and you can deal with a lot of situations better. Keep in mind that Jayce is deceptively hard. He seems easy sometimes but in reality, only a small handful of players are actually really good at him. He is not really easy to get down to the point of being exceptional, so if you really want to learn a champion like that, do not get disheartened if you do not dominate in a few games, even if it seems your opponents are killing you with him every time.
: What is wrong with the punishment system?
The number of downvotes on this post shows exactly what is wrong with League. Anyone with any interest in winning a competitive game would not hate the idea of banning deliberate trolls. Nor would they ever defend said trolls. In fact, they would also be outraged by the overwhelming number of int'feeders, openly stating in chat that they want you to lose, that they are disconnecting because the JG refused to gank and thus "cost them their lead" or int'ing so much the enemy team asks in AllChat "what is wrong" when they walk right down the middle of lane and feed 18 times within 20 minutes, without auto-attacking an enemy that was right in front of them at 12 health, while the enemy is saying in AllChat "Kill me, I am right here" or something similar. These things are absolutely impossible to misunderstand and happen about 60-70% of games. It really is disgusting and it only happens because Riot does not care that it happens and worse, players defend this behavior.
: please disable 4 man queues in norms
There is literally no reason to hate 4-person premades. It makes no sense at all. The level of control freak that people have is quite worrisome to be honest. If anything, maybe you should be excluded from playing the game if you do not want other people to play with their friends. Specific people do need to be banned. Anyone who int'feeds, afks, etc. sure. But that is not nearly all pre-mades. This makes no sense.
Sydney26 (EUW)
: Leagues unhealthy State
Yeah... these are some of the problems. Though.. catering to casuals definitely happens. That is why Lux, Ahri, Pyke, and tons of high-mobility, insta-burst champions exist at such a strong state. On the whole, yes, this game is in a really poor state though.
: League is in a bad spot rn
Ahri and Lux are picked almost perpetually... so you forgot the worst ones.
: My midlaner rage quit last game and i cant honesly say i blame him....
The problem is that this makes the game not fun. This is not anywhere near an auto-win. If your team is competent (with randoms, good luck), they can easily punish this tactic and destroy the game because the JG is wasting their time, so long as you play properly and do not allow yourself to be killed every few seconds.
: pyke. an assasin with stealth. mobility, fast heal IN COMBAT a hook, an execute, slow. stun
Because G2 players use him well. Also, because bad players use him well. Also, he makes bad players feel like they are really good so they BM all the time and spread toxicity in the game. That is why Riot thinks this is "okay." Push the narrative that "anyone can win" on everyone by making flashy plays really easy to pull off while having a champion that needs deleted. Mind, I love the concept and enjoy the champion but he should not exist.
JuiceBoxP (EUNE)
: Does anyone actually get enough orange essence to redeem skins?
Long ago (like just a year or year and a half? not sure exactly), they gave a lot more orange essence per shard. Shortly after they changed it, I mentioned in a survey that the random capsules feel worthless to buy now. I could care less about unlocking them through free sources, but the random bought capsules decreasing means that the value for spending money is significantly worse. Why bother buying them at that point?
: An (long) Essay on Permabans - One size fits all policies don't work
The thing is.... Permabans are not about stopping toxicity in the game. if Riot was serious about stopping toxicity they would write an algorithm (and this is not nearly as hard as the Riot-Knights try to say it is) to stop cheaters, boosters, and especially griefers from playing in their game. Chat toxicity, no matter how much people whine about it, is by far the least of the problems with League of Legends. I made a huge post about it before and it was downvoted immediately (within 8 seconds) of posting without actually being read. The whole thing discussed ways of reducing the toxic environment and improving the League community but was ignored. I sent a similar thing to Riot support before this as a suggestion and they told me to post it here. A week or so later, a Riot employee came out on... Reddit? or Twitter and made fun of the boards talking about how useless they are. So that is how much Riot really wants to improve their game for the players. Permabans exist solely because of money. Many of the people who really want to play will come back, buy skins, etc. But that is not the thing. Riot believes they will get tied up in some cyber-bully lawsuit thing because everyone wants to whine about everything. Banter should exist. It happens in eSports. Riot actively promotes trash-talking in all professional play but bans it in-game? That is the epitome of hypocrisy and shows the truth about how it is handled. In fact, Uzi (and others), were fined for being extremely toxic, including yelling at their team, playing under unregistered accounts, etc. Things that violate their terms. Yet... not banned. A minor fine and nothing else. This again shows Riot has no interest in really solving the problem. Much like if you teach a child it is okay to do something by doing it yourself, merely telling them not to will not fix the problem.
Zed Boss (NA)
: "Why did you ban my champion?" Answer: "Oh cry me a river"
Honestly, this is against the ToS and it should be. Players who deliberately ban out a hovered champion are being toxic to their team. Say that it is because the champion "is OP." Well, we should want this champion on our team right? Say that it is Yasuo (Ugh.. Am I really defending Yasuo here???)... Then maybe hope that this is the "enemy Yasuo" and will carry your game for you. Probably not but who are you to say they cannot play that champion? Say it is a new champion or a newly reworked champion? Honestly, you are just being a jerk at that point and should be banned. There is no real excuse for this. Sometimes people are one-tricks. Sometimes they just want to play that champion. Sometimes they had a really bad day and want a comfort pick. If it is ranked, they may be going for their comfort pick because it is their promos and you are already tilting them. All of this deserves to be removed from the community.
: Give Galio His Damage Reduction Back on His Ult
Galio is not allowed to be tactical or team based because Riot needs every usable champion to be flashy and all about dashing around and doing billions of damage so "anyone can win" and certain regions get stronger along with weak players. So... I doubt he will ever be anything like what he once was.
: {{champion:60}}, {{champion:28}} etc are assassins, just assassins of a different type.
> [{quoted}](name=FederationFurry,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NNpvGm1j,comment-id=00330000,timestamp=2019-08-13T08:19:51.095+0000) > > {{champion:60}}, {{champion:28}} etc are assassins, just assassins of a different type. Those are more skill-intensive assassins. Closer to how they should be built rather than Pyke/Zed/Talon/Akali, etc.
: TFT forced me to restart my computer by blocking task manager access
This is just a bug that League has in general now. Wonderful Riot would rather make the game as unfun as possible instead fixing the millions of bugs that show up nearly every game now.
BigIdea (NA)
: There's no point in making these posts anymore. There are hundreds of threads making these same points that should be super obvious to anyone remotely capable of logical thought. Riot's clearly noticed them and I'm not convinced they actually think widely varying item drop rates make the game fair. That being said, their refusal to implement this change is likely the result of some unknown agenda.
> [{quoted}](name=BigIdea,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=XwA8Fgjg,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-08-11T20:16:04.342+0000) > > There's no point in making these posts anymore. There are hundreds of threads making these same points that should be super obvious to anyone remotely capable of logical thought. Riot's clearly noticed them and I'm not convinced they actually think widely varying item drop rates make the game fair. That being said, their refusal to implement this change is likely the result of some unknown agenda. It is not unknown. The whole concept is catering to bad players. Much the same as the recent (last 18 or so months) of changes to League itself. RNG is the way of preventing the game from being unwinnable for horrible players so they will keep playing. This is a very sad, very bad tactic in modern "competitive" gaming.
: MAKE ICEBORN GAUNTLET MELEE ONLY
Honestly, this is not needed at all. Just fix Ezreal. Mind, I love Ezreal, but he is far too powerful at basically every stage of the game with almost no way to punish him (Unless you are a certain couple of pro players that always get caught out....). In lane, him plus any good poke support makes for a horrible laning experience and if he knows how to play late game, he can easily win the game. They are nerfing him but I wonder if it will matter.. Considering that if he drops in win rate they will probably just hot-fix buff him since he is so popular.
JuiceBoxP (EUNE)
: Nerf pyke's ult gold generation already.
Pyke makes bad players strong. Thus... no nerfs. Also, i love playing Pyke. However, he should not exist. At all. Much less gaining billions of gold for his team for pushing a single button.
: Surrender@20 is so depressing, for every 1 damage nerf another 5 champs get damage buffs
No, the best part is when they wait 6 months to "nerf" an op champion like say... Pyke? And they do this: "Pyke is a bit too strong right now, so we are taking some of his power out of early game and making him scale better into the mid game." "Base AD: - 1" "AD Growth: +0.5/Level" "Q AD Ratio: + 20%" "R AD Ratio: +20%, Execute Damage Threshhold + 25/100/200" We nerfed him guys! Please keep playing our game!!
koshkyra (NA)
: What is this double standard?
Are we really complaining about Bard, of all champions? Like..... c'mon..
: I might troll toxic teammates in the future because reasons
Toxicity is irrelevant compared to gameplay. The problem with League (other than Riot itself) is that too many players do not have the mentality of playing to win. That is what ruins the game. Not people whining about random things that do not even matter.
: Galio's W grounding him is one of the most hypocritical nerfs ever
No, Riot wants him out of pro play, which is why they keep nerfing a champion that is nearly unplayable to begin with. Galio is made to be a tactical champion. He requires teamwork in his previous form before they started ripping him apart like removing the damage reduction from his ulti. At least until they buffed his damage to obscene levels. However, the main thing is that anyone that enhances the game based on tactical thinking rather than flashy, overtuned, overloaded, overperforming kits will be systematically gutted and removed. I have been calling this for a while and Riot is doing exactly what I said and has been for a long time now.
Amachy (NA)
: Why does it feel like I'm playing against certainlyT in every game?
Pyke is the definition of what is wrong with League. Strangely, I love the champion but I hate that he exists. He is far too overtuned, easy to use, easy to break the game with, can win a game while being massively behind simply because you press R over and over again with zero skill requirements. The whole design is a perfect example of how badly Riot fails at their own game. They constantly talk about changing champions because they are not fun but Pyke and Yasuo exist. No matter the power level of these champions, they are hated by most players because their kits are not fun. And there are many others. Ezreal, someone I really like, is one of the most unfun champions to play against as well. Much like Akali and Yuumi.. Weird how more and more champions fit this design nowadays too, yet Riot tries to say they remove features because they are not fun.
R0XTAR (NA)
: Why is Corki getting nerfed?
Because Riot fails to understand why Corki is picked in pro play so often. Instead, they would rather nerf a champion that is of little real consequence to try to force mid lane meta in pro play to change. However, he was not overly buffed or anything to cause this. It is a complete misunderstanding of the game that brings them to these worthless changes.
: When will Riot admit that modern assassins are too forgiving?
Assassins are not High-Risk/High-Reward. Assassins are Riot's way of making bad players feel like they are insanely good by performing some play with dozens of dashes and looking flashy with a high KDA so they can talk about how "OP they are." Thus, we have Pyke. Hand-crafted for certain pro team's styles and Riot's refusal to fix him despite being adamant about him only being a support for a long time. Assassins could be really fun. LeBlanc was mentioned. However, she is punishable. Pyke is almost impossible to punish if he is good enough and has no real weakness to note but will not be nerfed because he helps Riot tell the narrative that "anyone can win!!!" so less skilled players and regions can be at the top. While pro play is not a good indication of solo queue in the past, it is quickly becoming the same thing in modern day as pro play is being deconstructed for Call of Duty style twitch-reflex matchups rather than tactical play. The more this happens, the more solo queue becomes a fiesta as well. On a side note: Saying Elise is not an assassin is baffling.... Literally, that is what she does.
: This season feels so exhausting and boring to play in
Easily the worst meta of all time. Riot is too busy focusing on telling a narrative in pro play than they are fixing the game for the players they will soon lose.
Galiö (NA)
: Galio is zero fun anymore
Galio was too tactical and required you to understand the game itself rather than use twitch-reflexes or broken champions. Thus, Riot must destroy them rather than allow said tactical play to exist. The game is going downhill pretty hard if you enjoy anything other than Call of Duty style fiesta play. Just remember, Pyke is what they want for a champion (as show by their refusal to fix him).
: "lack of counter play" "feeding his team gold" "killing Y O U R team" sounds like you get trash teams who don't know how to play safe when they're on low health since he can really only feed his team gold by executing them when an ally has damaged them. Play smart and learn audio clues since he has a loud one when he's invis near you. Here's a book to teach you about pyke {{item:3165}}
> [{quoted}](name=SoftCounter,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jii97oeO,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-07-31T13:09:24.793+0000) > > "lack of counter play" "feeding his team gold" "killing Y O U R team" sounds like you get trash teams who don't know how to play safe when they're on low health since he can really only feed his team gold by executing them when an ally has damaged them. Play smart and learn audio clues since he has a loud one when he's invis near you. > Here's a book to teach you about pyke {{item:3165}} Unsurprising. Someone who plays Pyke all the time saying that he is balanced when he shows otherwise with pro players, analysts, and almost anyone of decent rank can tell you that he is broken... Weird that.
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Syrile

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