: > How are we supposed to kill tanks without conqueror? Very slowly.
This is what people don't seem to get about tanks....
: > [{quoted}](name=Black Jesus,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=qoGOecqN,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-12T10:39:42.692+0000) > > It's an aram. > > A game mode where you can relax and play for fun, stop breathing down people's necks, telling them what to build. I understand that, but as I said, the item she built was literally useless against the enemy team. You are literally saying that a Riven can build {{item:3089}} on ARAM just because it is "a game mode where you can relax and play for fun"
> [{quoted}](name=YumaS2Astral,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=qoGOecqN,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-06-12T19:18:28.483+0000) > > I understand that, but as I said, the item she built was literally useless against the enemy team. You are literally saying that a Riven can build {{item:3089}} on ARAM just because it is "a game mode where you can relax and play for fun" That's exactly what he's saying. Be a hall monitor in ranked queues, ARAM is 4 fun.
: Patch 8.12 notes
Dear Riot, Please tell me that myself and our dearest Phreak are reading these notes wrong in regards to Sejuani. Did you really change her E-break damage to minions from 400 always to 300 max and like -nothing- early? It did not work like that on PBE...the nerf to 300 damage was enough to compensate her being able to re-cycle the damage imo. But that’s not the point; how can you let us test something for two weeks and then pull the carpet at the 11th hour, if true? Can’t even check this until it goes live I guess, so please respond and give a reason. This was literally the lone bright spot this patch, and will be a beyond massive nerf to this already weak champion.
nm1010 (NA)
: Depends on your skill level and the skill level of your games. Q flash or R flash combo are probably unheard of below gold and rarely used effectively below diamond, but they are also a nearly guaranteed engage tool. So if you don’t take flash you are essentially missing out on the best parts of her kit.
This is legit one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. Get off your high horse; silver and even some bronze players are pretty damn good at the micro part of the game. This includes the oh-so-difficult ability to hit two buttons in the correct order OHMYGAWD. That being said, flash is an amazing tool for Sej but I can see not taking it and using Ghost or Exhaust.
: > [{quoted}](name=Riot Novalas,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=BXPmZYyd,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-05-31T21:06:35.844+0000) > > The Sejuani changes actually make her early clear substantially healthier/mildly faster. We're not necessarily looking to give her a large buff either, just make her a bit better (since she's sitting around 46-47% atm).
Their search function is literally broken, I still can't search and find that.
: I'm really confused about the goals of the Sejuani changes on PBE
I'm very concerned that this is the only post on the entire board in the last week regarding the Sejuani changes. She has been repeatedly shat upon, then Tank junglers were shat upon, and now if you aren't playing Xin/Graves/Udyr then you are going to get dumpstered by one of them. We get it, people were sick of Sejuani in pro games. But if it's not her it's someone else. Don't get me wrong, I freaking LOVE the change to let her jungle faster. But it's like her original Passive...seems too strong overall and gimmicky. Probably will get nerfed I would bet money on, just like the passive did. Hate to say it but I wish they would go back to the drawing board on her E and passive. The resistances don't make her tanky in reality, they are just a gimmick. And I hate her having to stack the E, always have. Again, gimmicky. Simpsons already did it. A couple good suggestions from the boards/Reddit include: -letting her Q apply a stack of Frost---I really like this one. Since they nerfed the duration on her E stun (by a TON, 2s>1.4s was a HUGE nerf), it need something. Or one less stack to stun. Something here, folks. -Giving her Ult full stun duration even when used point blank...she's a tank, she is supposed to get up close and personal. -Letting her Ult>break>then stack her passive again>break. -Any sort of update to make her CC AoE again...this is what always differentiated her from Nautilus. She went from being a team fight MONSTER to almost 100% single target. Why?? ***Ideas for this: --Reverting her Ult to it's original form somehow. If the problem is the range of her Q>R, give it some sort of lockout that you can't cast your ult within 2 seconds of Q. --Let her E stun multiple targets at a time. Then possibly make her old Ult apply Frost and maybe a slow zone like it does, and you can E off of it=Voila Sorry for the novel. I don't think she is too far from being decent again. Please, any red comments would be huge, just to know they care about ~~The Winter's Wrath~~ The Fury of the North <btw that's still weird>
: Why Nobody Likes Season 8 (Big Rant)
This list is so extensive,,,if you don't like the game that much, why play? Also, Silver isn't anywhere NEAR as bad as everyone wants to meme. Most people play the game very well and the same stupid mistakes are made in most ELOs with chasing, gettting ambushed, not warding etc. The difference isn't as large as everyone in Plat/Diamond want to make it seem (just to puff themselves up tbh). Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't (especially in regards to your teammates).
Zerenza (NA)
: I have a question regarding champions that you pushed out of the jungle. Mostly the jungler's that can't duel pre-6. It's become really hard to play any tank jungler's, assassin jungler's and mage jungler's because you lack any real way to fight back if an enemy duelist invades you, you have to rely entirely on your team to help you but as we know, in solo que it's not really something you should rely on. Like, i think that increasing AP Jungler's ability to clear camps, as in, making them much more efficient at it would balance out Duelist jungler's ability to 1v1 early on, because they can't clear as quickly as their pre-6 enemies.
There were allegedly Sejuani buffs planned for this patch, but they are missing in action still. Please help.
Shock16 (NA)
: Sej support?
I've tried it a couple times with bad results. First ADC couldn't CS at all, second game we did very well until her internet started pooping out and i was 1v2. TBH taking Flash/Smite is pretty damn good because even with weak combat equipment/masteries she can kill scuttles with her E/Smite. I took the bottom one both games and got to level 2 before the enemy team. Not sure how worth that is, but it seemed like it could be very useful for controlling scuttle and also Drag/Baron. Missing Exhaust is probably a mistake though. Fortunately both games were normals, but I don't think I was the reason for the losses (as all Silvers think I'm sure). Her CC and passive are both outstanding tools for trading in lane. I would like to see it tried with a semi-competent ADC.
: Who's gonna CC a monster at level 1 before its basic attack is mid air anyway?
This is what I was thinking...why would you ever NOT auto the damn thing first for the free damage? I'm actually okay with the game punishing you for not playing the game smart. I wonder if Fiddle or Nocturne has the same interaction if you use their fear on incoming? I don't play them at all.
: I just realized something: Sejuani was never picked at all at MSI
Sejuani V8.7 Stats Health growth reduced to 88 from 95. Permafrost Stun duration reduced to 1 / 1.1 / 1.2 / 1.3 / 1.4 seconds from 1 / 1.25 / 1.5 / 1.75 / 2. V8.3 Arctic Assault Cooldown increased to 17 / 15.5 / 14 / 12.5 / 11 seconds from 13 / 12.5 / 12 / 11.5 / 11. On top of: Cinderhulk V8.5 Bonus health reduced to 15% from 20%. V8.4 Can no longer build from Tracker's Knife, due to the item being removed from the game. The Health growth and Cinderhulk nerfs really screw her out of building Warmog's as a second item sometimes (and it is incredibly good as a second item). Hell, half the time I build it third after say an Iceborn Gauntlet and I STILL don't have 3000HP. The removal of Tracker's Knife was also a slight to tank junglers overall, as they usually lack dueling power and the vision (or threat of vision) prevents invades. The CD of her Q was the first nerf and wasn't huge per se, but still pretty noticeable. The nail in the coffin was the nerf to her E (Permafrost) stun duration. Stacking her E is a pain in the ass, but the Stun/Shatter damage was pretty well worth it. Now it is much less worth to level this second, as 6 tenths of a second is actually a huge nerf---so most Sej players level Q second instead to recoup her cooldown nerf from 8.3. This triple nerfs her because now she only has a 1 second stun for a huge part of the game. NOW they are adding this new Scuttle mechanic that really is a buff to "duelist" junglers. So really another nerf to her. Depressing AF to be a SejMain these days. I still have solid games from time to time but the difference is massive after that many nerfs imo.
: I miss full AP Sejuani lol
The problem is, this is why she was a problem. She becomes a ranged assassin like LeBlanc with even less counterplay. It's undoubtedly fun to play, but pure cancer to play against.
: Crescendo range: 900 Glacial Prison range: 1300. Plus she has a dash. Compared and returned. My point still stands
Apparently you've never seen the two abilities in game? Sejuani's old ult would stop on first contact and freeze only people that are right next to each other, then slow others around. Meaning it could be tank blocked. Sona's will go through and stun everyone for that 900 range. Yes, the dash gives it more range, but that's at the cost of her Q's mobility/damage/CC for using it like that.
: That would become one of the most overpowered champions in the game. You realize her old ult was what made her (on average) a weaker champion? When you have a potential 5 man stun from decent range, you can’t be very strong in other areas.
Compare it to Sona's ult. Then come back and try again.
: so I just played sejuani
TriTanic works on a lot of champions. Personally I've been a fan of this type of bruiser hybrid build since the rework but I've always felt so alone on it.
Rioter Comments
: i gotta say i feel like im relevant as her even without any damage items beyond frozen gauntlet but i agree completely on the ult, its extremely unsatisfying. i sorta understand why they did it, before it was hard to do anything about her ult whereas now you can body block it, but its just so unsatisfying.
But that was just it: you traded having a good early game and decent clear speed/dueling power for the sweet late game and team fight. Now she is great in skirmishes and well below average in team fights. Also still not amazing early, will get beaten like a drum by many meta junglers.
: Communicate with your team. Remind them they are playing ranked and that they need to watch the minimap, to communicate, etc. Also there are 100000 videos of people climbing from Bronze. Play well. If you consistently win lane and make good map plays then you will rank up.
That first part is 100% guaranteed to get you flamed and send whoever you think you are trying to help into full nerd-rage tilt mode. Better to just be silent most of the time in my experience. Also I'd say 99% of those videos are made by players who are very experienced and already play the game at a semi-high level. Most normal players aren't quite at that level yet.
: instant ranged stun??? she has more hard cc for sure
The AoE part is extremely significant there. Tanks exist for teamfights, thus she needs more AoE abilities. Ulting into a team fight doesn't really do shit anymore. And trying to get her E off in combat feels like shit, you cant use it to peel at all because people are dead before you get the hits in.
: > [{quoted}](name=TEKadeo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pde7XGEo,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2017-07-01T19:26:00.143+0000) > > But surely nobody thinks she has more CC now right? An INSTANT ranged AoE stun pretty much trumps everything she has now. Maybe if they took away the stacking mechanic on her E stun then the dabte would be open, but as it is it&#x27;s not even close. She doesn't have more CC, outside of the extra slow on her ult, but she can CC more often, now that her stuns aren't all locked behind her ult CD. The catch with removing the stacking mechanic is: A) it'd pull her away from what they wanted her to be, which is a tank that synergizes better with melee heavy comps, and.. B) she would need more changes on top of that, due to the short CD of her E combined with her shatter passive. It would probably need a much higher CD or her shatter removed, but that would majorly hurt her jungling.
Yeah but I have to believe that everyone on planet motherfucking earth thinks that any champ being forced to rely on melee auto attacks is STUPID AS SHIT. There is no precedence for this mechanic, and is gimmicky as hell for no reason. What sense does it make? Does she have no archers in her army? It's plainly idiotic. I can get on board with everything but this, really (except maybe that her ult is LESS effective from melee range).
: The base expectations for classes REQUIRE tanks to be unsatisfying to play
Been struggling with this a lot recently as a Sejuani OTP. I do not like her kit nearly as much anymore and the tank-suck meta is only making it worse. LAtely I have been building AD items (Titanic, TriForce, etc) just to feel relevant. Building tanky means nothing these days. You are either ahead and dominate, or behind and have zero chance...so the only option is to get ahead early (thus the early Hydra). I hate it because I used to be able to build tanky and even if my team was behind my tankiness and AoE stun could win fights. Now building tanky feels like shit and her ult is fucking awful. Her ideal play is to force the 4 autos and get the E stun, break it, Ult and break again. Therefore your best play takes quite a long time (by league standards) to make happen. Feels horrible, honestly.
: amumu amps his team damage, sejuani carries by herself . there u go, reason to play her. no reason now, except that she's blatantly op
You still building Titanic TriForce?
: I wish she had her old W back
New W is way more useful imo. I just miss the old ult. She used to be a team fight megastar (not unlike Malphite) but now she is actually a pretty crazy solo champ who excels in skirmishes. She is SUPER weak in team fights I think and it kills me inside a little.
: old sej was a diver
Wait I think new Sej is even more of a diver due to her stacking mechanic forcing you to follow/chase more?
: > [{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pde7XGEo,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-07-01T15:39:27.507+0000) > > beating a dead horse fam > > riot wants all tanks to be good only for CC with no other qualities, because that makes diversity or something It's cause it was decided that tanks should be primarily about CC, not damage. Juggs are the super tanky damage dealers. Sej is classified as a tank, so more CC focus.
But surely nobody thinks she has more CC now right? An INSTANT ranged AoE stun pretty much trumps everything she has now. Maybe if they took away the stacking mechanic on her E stun then the dabte would be open, but as it is it's not even close.
: > [{quoted}](name=TEKadeo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jEnqvZQh,comment-id=0001000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2017-06-24T00:03:15.990+0000) > > Of course I&#x27;ve seen it. Both seconds of it. Literally the least impressive &quot;tank&quot; ability in the game. After those 1/2/3 seconds you are about as tanky as Orianna. Saying a champ is a &quot;tank&quot; because they have CC is dumb. Is Malzahar a Tank? Varus? People on this game stupidly call anyone who isn&#x27;t a carry a tank. Gragas is considered a Fighter/Mage, and he is more tanky than Sejuani. So is Mundo. Yeah the only champion that used to be able to have 1000 armor in one game is bad. Totally not enough reduction to be better than a hp passive shield. Meanwhile, she is actually a tank but keep thinking otherwise. She must be ADC right?
Yeah I can't even respond to such a moronic comment, but thanks.
: > [{quoted}](name=TEKadeo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jEnqvZQh,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-22T19:39:16.500+0000) > > Their list means dick. Builds matter more now. Sejuani is a Fighter/Diver more than a tank now MrDawkNSunshine is correct. Except I see four tanks ({{champion:12}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:27}} {{champion:98}}) but still. Yes, whatever Rito labels them doesn't mean they are great there. (Maokai rework anyone?) You are still wrong though. Tanks have CC. Most of what you listed has poor CC to none. Just because you can build HP on a fighter, juggernaut, and bruiser doesn't make them tanks. And Sejuani passive? Have you not seen it?
Of course I've seen it. Both seconds of it. Literally the least impressive "tank" ability in the game. After those 1/2/3 seconds you are about as tanky as Orianna. Saying a champ is a "tank" because they have CC is dumb. Is Malzahar a Tank? Varus? People on this game stupidly call anyone who isn't a carry a tank. Gragas is considered a Fighter/Mage, and he is more tanky than Sejuani. So is Mundo.
: i understand but they arent see the list i provided below its from a riot post
Their list means dick. Builds matter more now. Sejuani is a Fighter/Diver more than a tank now
: AD tanks: {{champion:122}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:58}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:98}} {{champion:78}} Mixed damage tanks: {{champion:75}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:77}} (depends){{champion:120}} {{champion:54}} also you forgot some: {{champion:12}} {{champion:27}} {{champion:36}} I may be wrong on some of these, but what was your point again?
I think Shen and Sejuani belong in the mixed damage tanks tbh. Sejuani typically does more physical than magic dmg now
: Sejuani permafrost bug
I've only really seen it on rift scuttler, but it's been dozens of times
Légs (OCE)
: Is Sejuani Top lane intended to be a thing ?
I would say that her Mana nerfs were intended to hurt her laning phase more than anything. Then more nerfs (-50 max HP, Less resistances early on passive) also hurt her laning. However, she is still pretty damn good 1v1 against almost anyone now, especially if you grab a Sheen item (Pref TriForce) or Titanic Hydra. TRied both together and didn't love it. You still want to be a tank, so build tank after.
: lets make taric an ult bot
Man I still don't love New Sej. I don't really feel like a TANK anymore, which is okay I guess. But I feel incomplete until I have a TriForce. Is this how Hecarim or Vi mains feel for the first 20 minutes of a game? I also hate team fighting now, which is a new thing for me as a Sej main. I also LOVE chasing people through the jungle trying to get my E popped and it gets me killed. Not used to that either. I can dream for a revert, right? I get she is strong, but not in the right ways imo. Dumpster the E and the passive and go back to the drawing board and get me some damn AoE CC and a real Tank steroid.
: Yah, the hope is to make her less of a tank. To be fair, the other mentioned champions play more like fighters than tanks in my opinion.
Is it completely lost on Riot that Sejuani plays more like a Fighter now than a Tank? And you just nerfed her only Tank ability (passive) that truly only last >3 seconds? She plays more like Vi and Xin now than a tank. Was this on purpose?
: Let's be honest: Sejuani is overpowered
She is strong, I don't think overpowered. Some people just haven't figured out how to deal with her. Plus she traded her old team fighting kit to be one of the best duelists/skirmishers and people don't realize... but her team fight is so much more lame now.
: [Zen PSA] Sejuani is a Lane Bully.
Yeah because nobody has ever stomped a lane before.
9kPluzZ (NA)
: Nice "tank" update Riot
Don't forget they changed Sejuani into a Bruiser. Which is cool. But I liked winning team fights more than just getting picks all day and literally being one of the best duelist in the game with a TriForce.
: > [{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=chFp2M32,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-05-11T16:04:25.249+0000) > > sejuani is a bruiser, maokai is an AP support and zac is a troll pick > > wew lad what a tank update, 2/3 aren&#x27;t even tanks anymore lel Do you have a source for Sejuani being a bruiser my son? I wouldn't put much stock into Zac currently being weak dogshit at the moment. Aatrox was weak dog shit on his rework's release as well, but once Rito figured out the right numbers he's been decent.
Dude is typically trolling but just simple thought process and examining her kit leads you to see that TriForce and Hydra are both amazing items on her. Koreans are doing it with Shen, but Sej with these items (and typically Cinderhulk) will outduel almost anyone.
: I wouldnt dive heimer's turret like i dive a rift tower. Heimer's tower are way scarier.
This is so unbelievably true and sad at the same time. I cri...
: sejuani is not a tank tho lel {{champion:113}} {{item:3078}} {{item:3748}} superior bruiser build {{item:3053}}
100% agreed. She is much more similar to Vi and Xin Zhao now, and I don't even think it's close. Any champ can build tank and be a tank, but the above build is what I've been saying since it was revealed. At least one of TriForce or Titanic and she is a god.
: DONT KILL THE PORO
Who's to say Azir and Malzahar aren't "balanced" from Riot's perspective? The players only want to play the "OP" champs, not the balanced ones. That being said, I agree. Two straight PBE updates with no nerfs is nice. But I am definitely feeling that mana cost hit Sejuani took. Fucking sucks, I can't really give up my blue at all. I mean what am I meant to auto attack and E my way through the jungle??
: If you're in lane, you're doing 10%. Stop trying to over exaggerate.
No dude, he's right. 10% is early, 15% after lvl 7 and 20% after lvl 14.
: What you're seeing is the new malzahar. - Gave sej a kit that reflects a fantasy nobody asked for - Overtuned raw numbers in order to make the new kit seem appealing - Introduced in a meta that heavily favors it - Given tools to survive in a fucked up meta (banshee's veil for extra security in mid lane for mal, tons of armor and MR for sej to survive jungle) It won't be long until sej gets nerfs in every part of her kit until she's not even the same playable champion she used to be (and yea, she wasn't bad pre mid season, her clear was just shit off raptors and krugs alone.)
This is hits the nail on the head, and is my biggest fear. The only thing "cool" about this new kit are the numbers. And they are already taking the axe to them. But I will argue that I never had a bad jungle clear with her Pre-MSU. Red/Blue with leash, wolves, Blue/Red (smite) then Scuttle, then gank at level 3 with at least 85% HP. That's pretty damn good tbh. And her ganks weren't that bad: a dash with knockup and great slow. Not a ton of damage, but I'd say my first gank was probably 75% on point at either getting a kill/assist/Flash.
: Yeah. Ignore the constant threads where I said she'd be broken, me saying that her identity would be replaced at the very start (which it has) supersedes all of that
Her identity has been completely replaced. She used to be an AoE CC Teamfighting machine with a weak early game but realistically speaking weak-ass built-in tank abilities... Now she more resembles a Fighter imo. She is more Xin Zhao than Gragas at this point. Her CC is great for ONE target, a bit too good. Her single target damage is crazy good, even vs Tanks. But she is so much weaker in teamfights that it's a joke. Her damage is outstanding on her E, but it isn't exactly EASY to ever use in a teamfight. Her passive is more befitting a Fighter, who goes in-and-out of battle. Tanks are supposed to go in hard and lock people down and hope the other team wastes their shit on them so the carries can go clean up easier. Now the problem is that Riot in their infinite wisdom would rather nerf the shit out of her W (which is her main jungle clearing tool---as a jungler) instead of the damage on her passive. Every Sejuani player cried for this to get nerfed on PBE. So prepare to be Sejuani'd again, as they nerf something that isn't really a problem: so far the CD on her passive dmg/resists, the Damage/CD/Mana cost of her W (and her HP scaling on this was one of the last nerfs on PBE) but leave the real problem untouched (the shatter damage from passive/E/R). Another problem is the stacking of her E and R. Nearly 5 seconds of lockdown shouldn't be allowed. This echoes so hard the nerfing of Sejuani when everybody on Earth knew that the original Cinderhulk itself was just too goddamn strong. Sejuani was pretty strong back then but didn't deserve the gutting she got, only to see Cinderhulk get shit on in the coming months with no buffs to compensate her. Watch and see, history will repeat itself. They are already nerfing the wrong abilities, and later on the other shoe will drop on her E damage and E/R combo. And she will be left in the shitter. Again. With Cassiopeia.
: They gave him a Divers kit...
Funny, they gave Sejuani a Fighter's kit with the Vanguard update.
: Of course she will be broken and of course Riot will not revert her. From what I can tell her power budget is too focused on her passive. I have seen 100+ armour and MR at lv 1... What? Hey, I will abuse this power as much as I can before she becomes unplayable. Look at the W damage... nothing!! After her passive and maybe stun nerfs, she will be left incomplete in her damage budget and become unplayable. Sad too because there is nothing wrong with current Sejuani.
It's all a numbers game. I like some things (passive resists and slow immunity is cool, I like her new W) and hate others (E is clunky and doesn't add any fun factor except it's overtuned damage, new Ult is meh). She will be good while her damage is too high, then when she gets nerfed she will be left useless and not my Old Sejuani. At least I'm getting too old to play this game.
: Sejuani is hella waifu material af
Are they supposed to update the skin to match that?
: Are there any plans to fix the passive animation on every Sejuani skin?
Got to say I agree… This is not a good look at all
: Sejuani has been buffed massively on the PBE several times over, from her clear speed to her overall damage output. I've played them both before 2 days ago because my PBE client is broken now, but Zac has traded a lot of his up-front CC for very clumsy mechanics. His E has half the knockup it does now, and his sustain in teamfights took a hit with the new ult not providing all the blobs current one does also let me be clear that i despise this sejuani rework and hope it fails so spectacularly that it's reverted with a public apology , but from what I'm seeing/playing Sejuani is very powerful
Honestly deep down I hate this Sejuani re-work as well… The only reason people are excited is because of her damage numbers. And everybody that plays this game knows for a fact that her damage will get nerfed, and she will not get back any of her lost CC, or become any tankier as a trade off. In which case she will be dumpstered again, and I will just be left missing my Old main.
: Updated Sejuani splash art leak
This....this is pretty epic. Well played.
LankPants (OCE)
: The reason I'm not a fan of bonus damage VS monsters on Sejuani is because out of all of the tanks in the game Sejuani feels like she should deal the top damage or at least close to it to champions. She just shouldn't need all this extra damage, her base line damage VS everything should be good enough to clear the jungle. The changes to her CDs in this list also almost definitely push her much too far in how well she can clear. The 4 second CD E will absolutely rip single camps to shreds and the 30% bonus damage on her W with the other damage increases will let her nuke down both single target and AOE camps far too fast.
I won't argue with you, I assume we are all sej mains here and we want her to be strong. However, what is your reasoning on why she should deal the most damage of all the tanks? Just curious. She kind of has lots of CC (well, had...still does kinda?) and that typically is one of the scales with which they balance (others being inert toughness ---ie not what you build/spec--- damage, utility and mobility. I guess now that I think about it, we are losing a lot of CC. Even with the added slow on W2, we simply are losing a ton of CC on her Ult as well as a very reliable slow on her E. Not quite sure we are gaining in other places? I guess we are gaining toughness by our passive, but tbh that isn't much. Technically her ability to use W while still moving adds a level of mobility too. Can't really say we are gaining damage though. Maybe? Right now on Live, her wheel thing has her as a 2 on damage, 2 on toughness, 3 on CC, 2 on mobility, and 1 on utility. I would have to say we drop to a 2 on CC with this rework.
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TEKadeo

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