Wen294 (EUW)
: With CDR: {{item:3001}} {{item:3194}} {{item:3110}} {{item:3025}} {{item:3109}} {{item:3800}} {{item:3065}} {{item:3083}} No CDR: {{item:3742}} {{item:3193}} {{item:3143}} {{item:3068}} {{item:3075}} {{item:3512}} {{item:1401}} Quick look through the items. May or may not have forgotten some. But yeah it's on a fair amount of their items. That said, if you want some HP with your armor you're in a rough spot. And if you don't have mana there's only 4 items that offer CDR, and it's all only 10%
on your typical top lane tank, however, really only spirit visage is reliably bought in that top category. all the items in the bottom row are way more common and arguably more broadly useful for tanks. the cdr items, such as the glacial items or warmogs, are either more niche buys or late-game 6th item type stuff. meanwhile pretty much every core item in every class grants 20% cdr off the bat. {{item:3071}} {{item:3078}} {{item:3285}} {{item:3147}} plus {{item:3508}} for a good chunk of the adc roster. pretty much every support item has cdr on it, whereas tanks don't get as much as they should.
darkdill (NA)
: Given Demacia's current state after the Lux comic, will we see an Inquisitor Champion at some point?
Demacian Inquisitor that hunts down mages and evildoers is one of the most glaring archetypes Riot has never explored. Closest we got is Camille and Vayne, although Camille is all hextech-y and Piltover-y while Vayne is more old-fashioned vigilante. I want a sleek petricite gun-wielding state-sanctioned assassin with an evil laugh and a wide-brimmed hat. Please Riot.
Profirix (NA)
: He won't even be remotely playable after 9.14. I don't think people realize just how much they have removed from his kit...or they don't care...or worse they cheer it because they would rather watch the champion disappear altogether.
people talk about how much they've removed from azir's kit over the years but tahm kench has had it a lot worse in my opinion no movement speed at all with ally in belly. it's actually completely the opposite, you're slowed and grounded no matter what. enemies no longer nearsighted in belly or stunned when spat out. virtually impossible to spit over small walls now. q now cleanses stacks of passive. q no longer applies stack of passive. ult no longer grants damage, which was moved to passive and heavily nerfed (no longer stacks). e is now only a portion of damage received. it's frankly ridiculous
: when you main {{champion:26}} but then you also somewhat main {{champion:202}} you would think it evens it out, but no, it doesnt. - . I am still bitter. edit: I missed that op was mainly focused on viability which is why I mentioned Zilean. With that in mind, it´s true that while being completely forgotten by riot my main is still at least playable.
zilean doesn't get skins but like he's totally playable in two roles and very rarely if ever gets nerfed even when he's strong the same cannot be said for some of his other counterparts {{item:3070}} {{champion:136}} {{champion:163}} {{champion:127}} {{item:3070}} but yeah jhin way overcompensates lmao riot has been sucking that guy's dick for the past 3 and a half years
: Now that he is being nerfed. it looks like he is being pushed into the jungle role because he can eat jungle camps now. really saddening
he's not just being nerfed. he's being actively removed from functionality at any stage in the game as a top laner.
: Nothing feels worse than loving a champion who isn't on Riot's favorite list
imagine trying to play tahm kench if he's even remotely playable anywhere, he's either gutted because pros are picking him or gutted because people can't adapt top lane to a champ that is useless past 15-20 minutes the moment certain niche picks are actually relevant riot will smash their knees in with a hammer while the same 20 or so generalist champs can be strong for years
AyreBiRabak (EUNE)
: TLDR: I'm a Tahm Kench main and i don't want him to be nerfed. Get off your high horse. The damn frog deserves whatever is coming. If that fucker is unfair in the top lane, then he deserves to be nerfed unfairly (assuming they even hit hard enough which i hope they do). I've played vs this cancer. Had to afk before i lose my mind and go insane.
it's not as if i said I don't mind nerfs and proposed some literally within the post read next time
: While I am against destroying champions as a general rule, when those champions have bad designs, they should be destroyed until their designs are fixed. In terms of why he's able to be in top lane, Tahm is one of those champions.
And yet no one seems to be clamoring for removing Aatrox, Riven, Jayce, Kennen, Vladimir from the game, who are all much more oppressive, scale better, and have their own design flaws.
Alzon (NA)
: At least they’re buffing his E sustain, but the roughest part of these changes is going to be how Tongue Lash no longer applies OR refreshes An Acquired Taste. There goes all dueling potential. The removal on stun is fine, as it prevents Q>W stunlock. The cooldown increase is fine, since it also decreases stunlock. The removal of passive damage on abilities hurts, but is acceptable - it removes poking as a viable option and only leaves all-ins. The shield nerf in favor of a regen buff is also fine - it especially helps support Kench. But it’s going to be nearly impossible to devour enemy champions now, unless they’re dumb enough to let you OR you have an item like Righteous Glory to reengage after being peeled off.
I don't see how removing this champion's ability to do things he's done for years is fair or good balance design. People only complain about Tahm Kench now because he was never played. Riot virtually removes his ability to be a support in Solo Queue and so he goes top, which was slightly buffed. If he's problematic you hand him a few small nerfs, not completely remove his ability to function as a top laner by restricting use of his own abilities. Tahm Kench has plenty of counterplay. He is easily kited and immobile. He is hurt by sustained damage he can't shield against. His approach is linear and difficult to execute in a wave or in a teamfight. He lacks AoE CC or engage that other tanks have and needs time to execute on a target. Shield nerfs hurt support Kench more than top Kench, who makes better use of the sustain.
: At this point I say these changes are fine. Anything to help the state of top lane is ok by me.
Conflating 'removing champions' with 'improving top lane' is selfish and short-sighted. I don't like playing against Riven, or Jayce, or Kennen, but I don't want to remove their abilities to lane. Even though they are demonstrably more powerful and actually see professional play.
Rioter Comments
Soulave (NA)
: gettin real sick of seeing tahm kench toplane
getting real sick of seeing the same post over and over again bitching about a champ thats useless after 20 minutes
: I made Lissandra play her login theme, the theme of the Freljord
Just listened to a bunch of your videos and subscribed. Really amazing work! I especially like how you use Pyke's E and and teleport to strike the dummies at different tempos. That's so creative and I'm sure it's really time-consuming.
: Riots champ design is incredibly dull now
pyke design was pretty good and is visually very striking and interesting. neeko is decent, but i think they really should have made her a lot more reptilian. last interesting design was ornn. before that 2016 was an extremely strong year for releases - jhin, camille, kled, asol, ivern, and taliyah were all great. in terms of vgus, they ruined galio, turned swain into a silver fox, made aatrox more boring. irelia and eve were ok for what we should have expected. nunu and urgot were good. then 2015, which was god-tier - kench, kindred, bard, ekko, illaoi. everything since then has been pretty bland or too sexy. kaisa, sylas, kayle, and a few others are pretty egregious.
: https://i.gyazo.com/272dc9855ae0bd5dd9a3cc6f211fd95f.png
you keep using lane kill rate when this exact picture literally shows yorick wins vs tahm
Rαy (EUW)
: This game isn't enjoyable anymore. And the reason is too much damage.
one and a half years? its been like this since the adc rework at the beginning of season 6
: Vote Fiddlesticks so That They Can Give Fiddlesticks the One Thing he TRULY Needs...
: The vote for a 2020 VGU is up
: Tahm Kench changes from the perspective of someone who loves him
these nerfs are cowardly and destructive. you can't call yourself any true fan of the champion if you're excited about these changes. they will destroy him yet again.
: Jesus Christ, just remove Tahm's ally Devour at this point.
these changes are so fucking gross and disgusting. riot should be ashamed.
: TL-DR BELOW. Tahm Kench's Q slow and W cost on minions are both in good spots. Putting more power into those will do nothing for his support WR and give him more power in the top lane. Keep nerfing W targeting coordinated play (there was a proposed change that W would auto-spit allies if Tahm takes unshielded damage, and that is a much better change in my opinion than the self-slow) If you want to fix his support win rate, you need to revert E nerfs, and HP nerf (now that Targons has been nerfed to Oblivion). Tahm is a warden like Braum, Taric, Galio (all played bot lane). However all of those champions have something that Tahm does not: Damage Reduction or Resistance amplifications, or both. Taric: Bastion Braum: Stand Behind Me, Unbreakable Galio: Shield of Durand Of these three, only Braum has the same base HP as Tahm Kench, and Braum's passive synergizes much better with ADCs than Tahm's passive. We won't even get into the fact that both Braum and Galio have a Dash built in their abilities (not counting ultimates). I'm not saying Tahm should get Resistances on his E, or damage Reduction like Braum. Don't get me wrong. I like that Tahm is literally an HP tank rather than an armor stat like Taric/Braum/Galio. But a lot of HP Nerfs in runes, items and combined with nerfs to his E have had zero effect on him in pro play, but are major Nerfs to his solo q play. TL-DR: Buff E. Nerf W (targeting coordinated play, as above). Tahm is an HP tank, yet has LESS HP than every other warden, and doesn't gain bonus resistances through abilities. Give him his HP sustain back through his E.
Seconded. Adding power to Q over and over again does little to help when he's already easy to kite and box in offensively. Put power back in stats and E. Nerfs to W, sure, but it’s unfair to keep Tahm squishier than other Wardens and still get nerfed over and over.
Youngcuck (EUW)
: {{champion:98}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:429}} {{champion:76}} {{champion:497}} {{champion:421}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:98}} {{champion:163}} {{champion:6}} We all agree!
: Sylas should not be casting Swain's ult with maximum Soul Fragments for free
he should just have whatever amount swain had when he stole it be that 0 or 5 if thats too weak i dont see why he cant gain soul fragments when a champion dies near him
: the conqueror changes are just stupid
are you saying tanks are op and conqueror shouldn't be nerfed because that's a laughably bad take right now in the meta we are in.....
: > [{quoted}](name=DoktorKaiser,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=TdaRmnqw,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2019-01-28T08:52:30.843+0000) > > I hate both Zoe who feels out of place on the rift and Kayn/Sylas/Yasuo shirtless anime edgelords. Can we just get original designs like Ivern, Orianna, Gnar or Jhin? Too much to ask ? You know, some of the concept art of Zoe looks really fabulous. Its just such a wasted design. https://lol.gamepedia.com/Zoe/Gallery Especially number 15. You know she is targonian just by looking at it.
zoe herself is garbage design. gameplay, lore, art direction. its all horrible. the artists involved with drawing, making, animating her, no shade to any of you - excellent work. she LOOKS great, Riot's art team are all amazingly talented. it's just her direction, lore, gameplay are all so offensively horrible that it's hard to appreciate yall's hard work.
Reav3 (NA)
: Hmm I forgot Shaco and Udyr, they are for sure on that list
: nerfing tahm kench when he's at a 44% winrate
and he's getting his skin too :(
: > [{quoted}](name=Bears Dont Care,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EGEmz81T,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-01-23T22:22:12.180+0000) > > Lee sin does not belong in that list dude. He is still arguably one of the best junglers in the game. Cassiopeia, Braum, and Tahm Kench also do not belong into this list, both of them are completely usable in SoloQ and strong in many situations.
tahm kench has been absolutely eviscerated and is getting nerfed again this patch, despite getting a skin
: > [{quoted}](name=Hayaishi2,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ttcucido,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-01-17T00:16:16.021+0000) > > Assassin mains are spoiled because they get to bully squishies with no counterplay. > > Nothing more satisfying than destroying that broken ass class with a bruiser. “Nothing better beating one broken ass class with another broken ass class”
bruisers are infinitely more broken than assassins in this meta and have been for like over a year now lmfao
Nea104 (EUW)
: Indeed. Season 8 in a nutshell. (also, add giving an **assassin** a crazy **tank skill** for no reason, and nerfing the (basically) same skill to a proper tank {{champion:223}} )
tahm kench grey health is worse than pyke's in every way sometimes the shield doesn't even cover how bad the healing is. you shield like 99% of the time because of how bad the healing is. i wish i had options between waiting for a heal payoff or getting a big shield as protection. instead i have one option in almost every scenario while pyke gets to swim his slimy ass back to full health in like 2 seconds after every trade.
Roigaar (EUW)
: I really dislike using Phantom Dancer for this. PD's mechanics are unique and incredibly fun, and losing what makes it so for a shield feels bad. If they're already adding Spear of Shojin, why not just add a new Zeal item with Lifeline? Besides, despite the loss in stats, that shield trigger looks way too broad to be healthy.
PD mechanics are brainless and anti-fun. hur dur i bought this item now i take less damage from you by default in lane and move faster to boot
: And some nice chromas aswell
tHeRe ArE cHrOmAs? EDIT: THEY ARE BEAUTIFUL EDIT 2: THERES AN EMOTE AND A SUMMONER ICON!!!!
: I don't even play Kench and I love this. Also. He's eating a roasted Raptor chicken from last year's April Fool's event and I love that little detail.
I didn't notice that! That's exactly what URF Kench was missing and his other two skins have - a big array of food he's about to chow down on.
The Iceborn (EUNE)
: He definitely deserved a skin, he didnt get one in a long time and this one is very pretty
Rioter Comments
: iT's jUsT CoINcIdAnCe bRo
where the fuck are kench buffs then
Poske (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6ebiAgy3,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-12-31T04:01:24.819+0000) > > you know what else is nasty? conqueror on actual good champs Oh shit that 2k true dmg per game Irelia and Yasuo do with CONQ Volibear has aftershock which is strictly STRONGER KEYSTONE
resists mean nothing when yasuo gets 20% true damage and 50% armor pen
: I love people who say a strong champion like zed is weak while....
Antenora (EUW)
: Please DO NOT change Phantom Dancer.
please DO its a fucking ball of free 1v1 stats that makes facing stuff like yasuo and vayne complete hell you can crush yasuo in lane and he will come back with a pd and kill you under tower
: Is there a Tahm Kench skin in the works?
Dukues (NA)
: Riot Balance & Design teams have cured my addiction
i uninstalled a few weeks ago, and have yet to feel a strong urge to come back. i will if things improve. but i don't intend to anytime soon with how season 9 is shaping up to be.
: > [{quoted}](name=Rylalei,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eA5efksR,comment-id=00140000,timestamp=2018-12-18T21:59:59.394+0000) > > It's not only about winrate and pickrate. Sona is considered an S tier support yet she's far from being as popular as Leo, Thresh and co. That's Pretty Hypocritical coming from your op you put all the winrate/pickrate stats.
: I don't understand why people think <50% WR + <10% PR indicates that a champion is inherently in need of a dire nerf. It just means they're thriving in the current state of the game. It has nothing to do with the champions kit being unhealthy. At this point adding win rate and pick rates as some kind of data or statistic model in a post is just fluff. Toxic kits that still exist are champions like Pantheon and Fiddlesticks where there is no inherent weakness to their targetted CC abilities. Abilities that cannot be countered outside the scope of the receiving player's champion kit. The only 'unhealthy' part of Lucian's gameplay is the fact that he is more or less the ONLY marksman that can proc Press the Attack effectively. That's the only thing that's making him strong right now. If you were to remove keystones from the game, theorhetically, he would be just as weak as he was before the marksman item update, as we would not have any upfront burst damage followed by enhances persistent damage because of the 12% damage received buff. **IF I WERE TO BALANCE LUCIAN AND THE REST OF THE MARKSMEN BUT I CAN'T BECAUSE I'M JUST A PLAYER AND NOT RIOT EMPLOYEE** I would nerf PTA to 9% damage received from 12% Revert the nerfs on Fleet Footwork. Because right now the only way marksmen are stay relevant is if they can keep up with Lucian and playing his game by also taking PTA. If you nerf PTA you nerf everyone in the marksmen roster but Lucian will stay on top just because among them he can reliably proc it in all stages of the game, where most of them won't be able to proc it until 12+ mins reliably. Besides it's not like MOST PTA users are gonna miss that 3%. Melee champs are comfortable taking Conqueror anyways.
if a champion is being picked more than double or triple the amount of times than its other contenders are and is still the inarguable best in the role then there is a problem.
Rylalei (EUNE)
: Let's Talk: "I'm high tier and best assassin for 10+ patches in both low and high elo" Aka Shaco
yeah maybe he has the highest winrate but he has nowhere near the playrate of champions like kha, pyke, zed, lb, etc.
Mc Raton (NA)
: Every Hook champion are meta warping this game on bot lane It's frustrating
blitzcrank has legit been in the top 3 supports in high elo for like 2 years now but the moment you actually try and complain about how busted his kit is you get lambasted by people who say he's only good in low elo
: The fact that we're going back to 1 rework : 1 new champion release makes me sad.
> [{quoted}](name=XIII Vanitas,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6AQk7T9m,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-12-17T02:53:00.480+0000) > - have been completely power-creeped out of the meta {{champion:53}} {{champion:42}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:9}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:56}} {{champion:72}} {{champion:106}} volibear is literally the only champion on that list that this applies to. corki isn't weak per se just not a strong mid laner. blitzcrank has been consistently in the top 3 supports for like 2 years now. skarner and nocturne are both viable junglers. fiddlesticks is still very strong bot lane. mordekaiser and mundo are viable in their roles.
: I did the same, but it needs more than a mere keystone removal for me - it needs a whole new design direction. The whole "flashy plays mobility" + overloaded af kits + dmg upon dmg needs to stop.
i think the whole concept of a keystone has broken the game for 3+ years and riot needs to pull their heads out of their asses and abolish them in their entirety. dark harvest just happens to be the most egregious.
: After seeing that Vayne buff, I'm glad I quit the game
i uninstalled a few weeks ago and swore to one of my friends it would stay that way until dark harvest was removed. not nerfed or changed. removed.
: Guess My Most Hated Champion...
its janna, she's the most historically broken champion of all time
Moody P (NA)
: Volibear buffs. BASED Riot Games
why the fuck are they buffing singed
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