: Steraks and maw fuck everyone over. Anyone who can utilize them, will. Assassins included. An assassin's job shouldn't be as easy as you seem to think. They're *supposed* to be high risk, high reward. As of late, they're mediocre risk, high reward. Most assassins have a pretty safe lane phase if you play it right, and in teamfights, even if they don't kill the carries, getting them low enough to be out of a fight is just as good for the rest of that fight. ADCs can't do a whole lot alone unless they're really fed, so while their team has no damage behind them, the rest of your team is just going to destroy them. After that, the ADC that you took out of the fight now has no one to peel and may as well be dead with the rest of them at that point. All they can really do is clear waves unless, again, they're really fed.
> [{quoted}](name=BuffsOP,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZGNdgijN,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-16T19:25:07.321+0000) > > Steraks and maw fuck everyone over. Anyone who can utilize them, will. Assassins included. An assassin's job shouldn't be as easy as you seem to think. They're *supposed* to be high risk, high reward. As of late, they're mediocre risk, high reward. Most assassins have a pretty safe lane phase if you play it right, and in teamfights, even if they don't kill the carries, getting them low enough to be out of a fight is just as good for the rest of that fight. ADCs can't do a whole lot alone unless they're really fed, so while their team has no damage behind them, the rest of your team is just going to destroy them. After that, the ADC that you took out of the fight now has no one to peel and may as well be dead with the rest of them at that point. All they can really do is clear waves unless, again, they're really fed. how do assassins have a high reward if they cant kill the carries. Your example just exemplifies a mediocre risk and a mediocre reward. They go in, they do some damage, enemy carry lives and assassin doesn't do much after major spells are burnt. Assassins are supposed to have a good laning phase so they can spike in mid game. The issue in the meta right now is that the spike is not as noticable as adc's can stack up defensive items and tanks do so much damage. As a result assassins also stack up defensive items like maw, which invalidates their original purpose of high damage high burst.
DrNova (NA)
: Mechanical skill? Jump onto so.eone, smash all 4 buttons and kill them instantly. How is that mechanical skill?
> [{quoted}](name=DrNova,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZGNdgijN,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2016-04-16T18:55:02.631+0000) > > Mechanical skill? > > Jump onto so.eone, smash all 4 buttons and kill them instantly. How is that mechanical skill? it is much better than some tanks that press r to win. Fundamentally all champions just press four buttons and win. That is like saying that basketball is an easy game, because u just throw the ball in the hoop.
: I was going to say something, but actually... I'm just gonna sit here and watch everyone in Gameplay & Balance come eat you alive.
> [{quoted}](name=TheThundersRoar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZGNdgijN,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-04-16T07:00:01.516+0000) > > I was going to say something, but actually... > > I'm just gonna sit here and watch everyone in Gameplay & Balance come eat you alive. Can you explain why?
Stacona (NA)
: Its already the assassin meta, and when does people ever like playing against assassins?
> [{quoted}](name=Stacona,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZGNdgijN,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2016-04-16T18:19:40.136+0000) > > Its already the assassin meta, and when does people ever like playing against assassins? Are you implying that playing against op tanks and bruisers are better?
Stacona (NA)
: Its already the assassin meta, and when does people ever like playing against assassins?
> [{quoted}](name=Stacona,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZGNdgijN,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2016-04-16T18:19:40.136+0000) > > Its already the assassin meta, and when does people ever like playing against assassins? If maokai is op now, I don't think it is the assassins meta.
: No. As in ADCs are required and assassins haven't been entirely required this season. However, due to ADCs being as strong as they were and are, assassins became much more usable and popular. Pop the ADC and your tanks are free to do whatever they want.
> [{quoted}](name=BuffsOP,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZGNdgijN,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2016-04-16T07:13:40.924+0000) > > No. As in ADCs are required and assassins haven't been entirely required this season. However, due to ADCs being as strong as they were and are, assassins became much more usable and popular. Pop the ADC and your tanks are free to do whatever they want. Hypothetically you are correct. The issue is that adc fundamentally screws over assassins. Look at graves, Lucian and Jhin. With streaks, maw and with much better hybrid damage items, an assassins job to assassinate is much more difficult.
Mokkun (NA)
: Of the various role-based metas you can have, assassin metas are by far the most cancerous. It comes down to ping, super-snowballing, and who can do more unavoidable damage faster. Assassin metas exist when the defensive side of the arms race is very very far behind. Tank metas may be boring and grindy, but there's more of a sense that you can react to what's going on. Personally, from a competitive standpoint, I think support metas are best, because those are teamwork metas. For non-organized play, generalist mage metas probably end up being the most fun in the aggregate.
> [{quoted}](name=Mokkun,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZGNdgijN,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-04-16T07:36:07.115+0000) > > Of the various role-based metas you can have, assassin metas are by far the most cancerous. It comes down to ping, super-snowballing, and who can do more unavoidable damage faster. > > Assassin metas exist when the defensive side of the arms race is very very far behind. Tank metas may be boring and grindy, but there's more of a sense that you can react to what's going on. > > Personally, from a competitive standpoint, I think support metas are best, because those are teamwork metas. For non-organized play, generalist mage metas probably end up being the most fun in the aggregate. I agree. I just wanted some input on assassins needing a bit more attention now. I just hope riot gives a shoving hand to assassins.
Annoxis (EUW)
: There is a little something you seem to forget : Assassins are defined by their very nature high-risk, high-reward champion. But, the meta design what is the most likely to make you win and is thus played accordingly. You see where the problem is lying, I guess. You want mechanical outplay ? Okay, it is fine. But if assassins become a great part of the meta, it just mean that they are strong. Winning with Kha'Zix at the start of the S4, was it a great display of mechanical outplay, when, you towerdived the ADC with your evolved ult ? No, because he was utterly overpowered. The stronger assassins are, the less you can outplay your opponent since the quality of an outplay is measured by the risk taken by the player, risk that is dimished by the overall strength of your champ.
> [{quoted}](name=Annoxis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZGNdgijN,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-04-16T07:43:24.266+0000) > > There is a little something you seem to forget : Assassins are by their very nature high-risk, high-reward champion. But, the meta design what is the most likely to make you win and is thus played accordingly. You see where the problem is lying, I guess. > > You want mechanical outplay ? Okay, it is fine. But if assassins become a great part of the meta, it just mean that they are strong. Winning with Kha'Zix at the start of the S4, was it a great display of mechanical outplay. No, because he was utterly overpowered. The stronger assassins are, the less you can outplay your opponent since the quality of an outplay is measured by the risk taken by the player, risk that is dimished by the overall strength of your champ. According to your theory then why should assassins even bother to exist. If a tanky bruiser can do the same thing as an assassin with less effort, where does the high rewards really come in. You can argue that the complexity of a play is what makes it an outplay, but that is about the same parallel you can make of a zed outplay being much more insignificant to like a annie one. If assassins have high risk but equal reward, then that is when they need buffs. I am proposing it based on this conjecture.
: Riot Please Make An ASSASSIN META
Another thing I would like to mention is the Dunning-Kugger Effect, where simply Assassins seem much more frustrating from a gamer's perspective because they tend to delete people faster. This does not mean that they are more op compared to a tank nautilus, but rather that they just feel a lot more frustrating to deal against. When you see a tank nautilius you dont expect the massive amounts of damage he is applying. When you are against a zed, you just feel helpless against his death mark. The Nautilus may eventually kill more people but the zed simply just causes more rage.
: Riot are currently testing for a massive Mage update right now that will be live in the near future. That will change up the meta greatly for mid lane, if you wanted a change for mid laners. Assassins already had received {{item:3147}} to help them assassinate their targets, and that is already a great quality of life item for them. Riot are also trying to provide more emphasis on team-play, than individual performance (as the result of Dynamic Queue), so they aren't going to start a heavy emphasis on a solo carry meta (Mages are getting an over-haul because they haven't been in meta for a lot longer than any other group of champions). If you are complaining that you can't assassinate a champion because a tank (whose main job is to provide CC and peel for their damage) gets in your way, I'm sorry to say, but that is completely fair and balanced (imagine assassins being able to ignore tanks completely during mid-late game. That would break the entire game, not just the current meta.
> [{quoted}](name=CoolMike127,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZGNdgijN,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-04-16T07:13:27.547+0000) > > Riot are currently testing for a massive Mage update right now that will be live in the near future. That will change up the meta greatly for mid lane, if you wanted a change for mid laners. > > Assassins already had received {{item:3147}} to help them assassinate their targets, and that is already a great quality of life item for them. > > Riot are also trying to provide more emphasis on team-play, than individual performance (as the result of Dynamic Queue), so they aren't going to start a heavy emphasis on a solo carry meta (Mages are getting an over-haul because they haven't been in meta for a lot longer than any other group of champions). > > If you are complaining that you can't assassinate a champion because a tank (whose main job is to provide CC and peel for their damage) gets in your way, I'm sorry to say, but that is completely fair and balanced (imagine assassins being able to ignore tanks completely during mid-late game. That would break the entire game, not just the current meta. I am fine with the tank being able to stop me from assassinating, but I do not feel that a kindred sated jg that also builds tank should also be able to stop me as an assassin. Being a bruiser right now offers the best of two worlds which I really hate. Tanks also do an insane amount of damage right now, in some cases they are able to outdamage in single targets than assassins. In your theory, right now the tanks and bruisers are doing the assassins job.
: We've had an assassin meta this season already IMO. Not a really strong one where assassins were required, *cough ADCs cough* but an assassin meta nonetheless due to ADCs being the way they were/are. Either way, I think most people would rather have tanks and tank items simply deal less damage and give other things lower base damage or ratios.
> [{quoted}](name=BuffsOP,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZGNdgijN,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-04-16T07:04:50.926+0000) > > We've had an assassin meta this season already IMO. Not a really strong one where assassins were required, *cough ADCs cough* but an assassin meta nonetheless due to ADCs being the way they were/are. Either way, I think most people would rather have tanks and tank items simply deal less damage and give other things lower base damage or ratios. ADC's may be assassins but remember a lot of adc's became much stronger due to items such as maw and steraks. Graves is a prime example of this. When I mean assassin I generally mean the champions with the Assassin classification provided by riot.
Annoxis (EUW)
: From memory, in season 4, there was an assassin meta. From memory, it was by a great margin one of the worst meta I have experienced. Furthermore, if you want to show « Pure mechanical skill », the fact that DFG isn't here shouldn't bother you that much, right ?
> [{quoted}](name=Annoxis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZGNdgijN,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-04-16T07:03:03.639+0000) > > From memory, in season 4, there was an assassin meta. From memory, it was by a great margin one of the worst meta I have experienced. > > Furthermore, if you want to show « Pure mechanical skill », the fact that DFG isn't here shouldn't bother you that much, right ? Worlds was much better from a spectators perspective. I just feel UN-rewarded as an assassin. Season 4 was not necessarily a better meta but it was much more fun. People actually valued mechanical skill and just not farm, lane-swap and wait till teamfights happen. In solo-q a assassins role is greatly diminshed because there are much better options such as building bruiser or simply tank. I am not proposing to make asssassins kings, I am saying that assassins should be good at what they are doing. That is killing champions that are supposed to be squishy. Utilizing items is part of the mechanical skill process. It is called using items in time for the right purposes. The itemization right now is really bad for assassins as they do not have the same correlated reward to mechanical skill.
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: How can I carry harder when...
the answer is that you really don't. As long as you are not a whole tier in mechanics compared to another person, even if you win lane you will still lose. I only hard carried once as zed 11/0/2. Play zed, own laner, roam bot, kill adc 5 times, then push and make other team ff. It is very hard to do this if you are not tiers above in mechanical skill. Buy a pink and put it in baron, dragon, it provides a good investment.
: > [{quoted}](name=TSA unityinstall,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iEjaUWrX,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-01-02T03:21:02.272+0000) > > in the lower elos she really sucks. > Because she's in the hands of lower elo skilled players. And no champion should be able to carry 3v5s unless they are retardly fed and levels ahead with major match up advantage and terribly bad enemies. Ahri in no way needs a buff. She has a great poke, a great form of CC and amazing mobility. Her ult can easily chase enemies and serve as an escape if the situation is dire enough to call for such a measure. Ahri is a great mid laner. No buff needed. Continue to use Ahri, find your counters and work around them.
> [{quoted}](name=ERROR 1404,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iEjaUWrX,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-01-02T03:33:15.318+0000) > > Because she's in the hands of lower elo skilled players. And no champion should be able to carry 3v5s unless they are retardly fed and levels ahead with major match up advantage and terribly bad enemies. Ahri in no way needs a buff. She has a great poke, a great form of CC and amazing mobility. Her ult can easily chase enemies and serve as an escape if the situation is dire enough to call for such a measure. Ahri is a great mid laner. No buff needed. Continue to use Ahri, find your counters and work around them. to my knowledge adc's like vayne can.
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: > [{quoted}](name=Savage Bear,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qEAWItnH,comment-id=000300010001,timestamp=2015-11-26T00:00:24.920+0000) > > He's 48% win rate in Plat+. His win rate is only decent in lower elos where people literally don't know how to deal with him at all. Not surprised most of these boards is silver I can deal with him and I still hate him. lol. He literally makes me want to rage quit because of how many times he can fuck up and still come up on top. And no i'm not silver so idk why u made that comment o.o Edit : oh wait look at this!!! you play two of the most annoying and obnoxious champions in the game. No more speaking about your champion being fair to play against because you clearly don't play against him if you're playing him. http://i66.tinypic.com/117quqw.png
> [{quoted}](name=BakedLotion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qEAWItnH,comment-id=0003000100010000,timestamp=2015-11-26T00:25:24.601+0000) > > I can deal with him and I still hate him. lol. He literally makes me want to rage quit because of how many times he can fuck up and still come up on top. And no i'm not silver so idk why u made that comment o.o > > Edit : oh wait look at this!!! you play two of the most annoying and obnoxious champions in the game. No more speaking about your champion being fair to play against because you clearly don't play against him if you're playing him. > http://i66.tinypic.com/117quqw.png the only way of knowing how good or bad a champion is by playing against him and with him. People have a misconception about yasuo, and please refer to my post. Don't judge someone just because they play those champions, because in your theory all challenger players ideals are stupid, because they main or they are really good at those champs.
: Lane bully and late game monster is just silly Windwall needs reworked, one point wonder ability The procing of r needs fixed, it procs off of the most silly things. Im fine with the damage just fix the two things i mentioned
> [{quoted}](name=Ace 1n your hole,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ANH4IyrE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-26T00:05:17.367+0000) > > Lane bully and late game monster is just silly > > Windwall needs reworked, one point wonder ability > > The procing of r needs fixed, it procs off of the most silly things. > > Im fine with the damage just fix the two things i mentioned he is not a lane bully to annie, malzahar, xerath, and etc. His damage output is less than most bruisers and adc late game. He does not function the best as an assasin. Windwall is 25 seconds, I agree he might needs to change. Maybe reduce damage and aoe effect. Procing of R yea sure, i agree. I just hate when people say he is a god.
Rioter Comments
: Except not really. The mastery made him even more broken than he already was, his kit is still stupid broken, he can still get tons of lifesteal off of the mastery, as long as you're farming champions.
Some food for thought. I see up to 50 boards forums a year in complaining about yasuo. Riot guts him at season 5. New mastery comes up, makes him op. They nerf shiv and they nerfed ie. People must realize that Yasuo's overall damage output is not one of the late game hyper carries. Any adc in this era, besides corki will out damage him. Tryndamere will out damage him because Yasuo's crits do less damage. He is a mid-late game champion. A wind wall doesn't do shit if it is on cd for 25 seconds for crying out loud. His shield is disabled with a auto attack. If you want to make him lose. Get a fucking jungler camp your lane for first ten min. Make him die twice, and he becomes a useless piece of shit. His power curve is much smaller than those of season 4. Currently there are also so many options to deny him. Kindred, Ekko, Tahm Kench, Kalista. Are all examples. you get a warwick, a yi, a malzahar, a darius, it would shut him down. His ult is not op, as you need a skillshot to land. You hate his ulti, get a qss. You can qss out of the ulti..... TLDR: I don't know why are people crying about yasuo if he is so weak. There is a reason why riot gut him to oblivion already. If you are going to say his kit is toxic, look at ekko or gnar. High base damage and can go full tank to do damage. Look at swain, level 6 pop ulti sustain and drain. Look at brand level 6 prepare to die full combo... Way too high damage. Other champions are equally as strong as yasuo and does yasuo's job easier. EG Vayne and Zed. Yasuo has no sustain, he is very squishy. He cannot reliably kill anyone. His laning phase you might argue is strong, but is not that great when you play defensive, and have jg gank. He is weak, and that is why high elo players abuse it like shit. Season 5 was evidence on how weak he was. Even after tuning down the keystone mastery, you guys still want him nerfed. HOW CAN HE FARM CHAMPIONS IF HE CAN BARELY SURVIVE IN LANE. There are always counters in the game. Lulu for burst champions as an example. Ahri, can beat an yasuo easily. Ahri playing smart is very easy to beat him. This is an example of a mage owning the shit out of an yasuo.
Rioter Comments
: Why so many yasuo players?
the idea that every game I have, I cannot pick him, and that when I play him riot will give me some random yasuo map bug pisses me off. Go to this clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Wh_c0l1Zd0 and go to 0:18. This is the bug I am talking about;
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Zhugan (NA)
: 1. Ah, yes, first off that assumes have the money to pay to change my server. Second, I'd be paying for a ping improvement combined with an inconsistent ability to communicate with the people on that server AND not being able to play with my friends (many of whom are central or west coast, and don't have playing on LAN as any kind of conceivable option). Now, I can understand why you would draw the analogy to playing in China and not switching to a Chinese server. The difference is I assume you have some ability to communicate in chinese since you are living there and that you have friends in china, since you are living there. Which means that my drawbacks don't exist for you. 2. I'm not talking about people at the very top. I'm talking about the average difference between someone in bronze and someone in Diamond+. That difference exists and has always existed. Trying to say that it doesn't matter is a bit of a poor argument when it has been documented for years. It obviously does make some manner of difference. As for Quas, using a professional caliber player to prove your point is a poor example. His combination of insane mechanical skills and game knowledge puts him in the top 1% of the top 1% in NA. That'd be like comparing a pro football player to the average players in a flag football league. Things that make differences to the average aren't really gonna have as big an impact on Peyton Manning. 3. I'm not being toxic. Read my post again. I'm talking to the small percent of the west coast population that IS raging about things. Even to people who have posted on this from the west coast saying they are okay with this my response has been along the lines of "this post wasn't about you, and you're alright for supporting a more level playing field". If you read everything in this post, people are downvoting me, calling me an idiot, calling me wrong, etc. I'm hostile because people are hostile towards me. I am snarky because I have been told a few too many times that ping doesn't matter to let people then moan about how awful having this ping change will be. Oddly enough, both of those groups are dominated by west coast players. 4. Except it won't be a .2 second advantage. Right now the west coast averages about a .05 second advantage on the east coast. In extreme cases that can balloon to as big as .1 seconds. (LA vs me, for instance.) By changing the location to Chicago the average difference between people in Chicago and anywhere else should be closer to about a .03 second advantage. That's a 40% average improvement, which is a pretty good deal all around ESPECIALLY if Riot makes good on the promise of the connection being more stable which would mean fewer lag spikes for everyone. And, as far as a multiple server idea goes, especially a decentralized multiple server idea, I LOVE that idea. But, at this point, it seems about as likely as a snowstorm in the Sahara in midsummer. Which means talking about that idea is just a bitter pill for everyone because who wouldn't like to sit closer to 20 ping than 50? 5. I've never been warned on the boards. I wasn't warned on the forums over two years of posting there. I've never been warned in game. I've never been banned or given a chat ban either. I've gotten EVERY SINGLE award for being a positive member of the community. Other than a slightly inflammatory title (which is kind of necessary to get places on the boards) my post is in no way derogatory or rude. I tell people complaining about their higher ping to get over themselves because they are losing a little for a whole lot more people to gain a lot. If I was on the west coast I wouldn't be happy about gaining some ping, but I would be happy to have a more level playing field. (I also wouldn't have told people had no impact on ranking or the game because it obviously does.) Am I heated? Absolutely. But you might be the first person in roughly five years of playing this game to call me toxic. 6. I'm not a pro, and I don't want to go pro. That isn't the reason that I dislike an uneven playing field. I've been involved in competitive events/sports/games since middle school, and I _hated_ it when the playing field wasn't level because of some inherent advantage or disadvantage to one side or another (outside of the skill of the individuals competing). Winning when you're at an inherent disadvantage might be awesome, but losing because you're at an inherent disadvantage is awful.
> [{quoted}](name=Zhugan,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=Ka5HG4bA,comment-id=0013000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-08T01:31:51.982+0000) > > 1. Ah, yes, first off that assumes have the money to pay to change my server. Second, I'd be paying for a ping improvement combined with an inconsistent ability to communicate with the people on that server AND not being able to play with my friends (many of whom are central or west coast, and don't have playing on LAN as any kind of conceivable option). Now, I can understand why you would draw the analogy to playing in China and not switching to a Chinese server. The difference is I assume you have some ability to communicate in chinese since you are living there and that you have friends in china, since you are living there. Which means that my drawbacks don't exist for you. > > 2. I'm not talking about people at the very top. I'm talking about the average difference between someone in bronze and someone in Diamond+. That difference exists and has always existed. Trying to say that it doesn't matter is a bit of a poor argument when it has been documented for years. It obviously does make some manner of difference. As for Quas, using a professional caliber player to prove your point is a poor example. His combination of insane mechanical skills and game knowledge puts him in the top 1% of the top 1% in NA. That'd be like comparing a pro football player to the average players in a flag football league. Things that make differences to the average aren't really gonna have as big an impact on Peyton Manning. > > 3. I'm not being toxic. Read my post again. I'm talking to the small percent of the west coast population that IS raging about things. Even to people who have posted on this from the west coast saying they are okay with this my response has been along the lines of "this post wasn't about you, and you're alright for supporting a more level playing field". If you read everything in this post, people are downvoting me, calling me an idiot, calling me wrong, etc. I'm hostile because people are hostile towards me. I am snarky because I have been told a few too many times that ping doesn't matter to let people then moan about how awful having this ping change will be. Oddly enough, both of those groups are dominated by west coast players. > > 4. Except it won't be a .2 second advantage. Right now the west coast averages about a .05 second advantage on the east coast. In extreme cases that can balloon to as big as .1 seconds. (LA vs me, for instance.) By changing the location to Chicago the average difference between people in Chicago and anywhere else should be closer to about a .03 second advantage. That's a 40% average improvement, which is a pretty good deal all around ESPECIALLY if Riot makes good on the promise of the connection being more stable which would mean fewer lag spikes for everyone. And, as far as a multiple server idea goes, especially a decentralized multiple server idea, I LOVE that idea. But, at this point, it seems about as likely as a snowstorm in the Sahara in midsummer. Which means talking about that idea is just a bitter pill for everyone because who wouldn't like to sit closer to 20 ping than 50? > > 5. I've never been warned on the boards. I wasn't warned on the forums over two years of posting there. I've never been warned in game. I've never been banned or given a chat ban either. I've gotten EVERY SINGLE award for being a positive member of the community. Other than a slightly inflammatory title (which is kind of necessary to get places on the boards) my post is in no way derogatory or rude. I tell people complaining about their higher ping to get over themselves because they are losing a little for a whole lot more people to gain a lot. If I was on the west coast I wouldn't be happy about gaining some ping, but I would be happy to have a more level playing field. (I also wouldn't have told people had no impact on ranking or the game because it obviously does.) Am I heated? Absolutely. But you might be the first person in roughly five years of playing this game to call me toxic. > > 6. I'm not a pro, and I don't want to go pro. That isn't the reason that I dislike an uneven playing field. I've been involved in competitive events/sports/games since middle school, and I _hated_ it when the playing field wasn't level because of some inherent advantage or disadvantage to one side or another (outside of the skill of the individuals competing). Winning when you're at an inherent disadvantage might be awesome, but losing because you're at an inherent disadvantage is awful. 1. I am an american traveling abroad. I do possess chinese linguistic abilities, and that I do have a couple friends in China. But all of this does not make me not part of NA. I like NA because of the vocal community and their communication (albeit toxic) in games. It is fun to talk to NA people. I also play in korea, I dont know korean. I communicate with pings and it is fun to play with challenging oppponents. 2. I have no idea of your merit or accomplishments in the boards or other forums. To me in this particular forum, it feels that you are directing this message to all west coast players. This may have caused some mis-understanding. 3. Some west coast people are jerks, but by fighting back i dont think it makes you better. It makes you equal. This honestly should not even be a issue, as Riot has mentioned stabilized servers would be implemented in Chicago. In your #4 point i just stated that since Chicago was moving to the central part of the us, you don't seem to harbor hostility to the central people now having the advantage. #5 I understand what you are coming from, but as a fellow member of tbe boards, the posts were just some of my thoughts. I hope no other hostility would be created between us.
: Yeah, nobody's happy that all they're doing is moving it. I'm glad it's nearer to me for better ping, but really, they ought to just make a second server like other large regions have (China has what, like 4 independent servers?). EUNE and EUW are closer together than West coast and East coast, but they have their own servers (although I know they are definitely not the best servers out there).
> [{quoted}](name=junglerboy16,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=Ka5HG4bA,comment-id=00090000000100000001,timestamp=2015-08-08T01:19:27.842+0000) > > Yeah, nobody's happy that all they're doing is moving it. I'm glad it's nearer to me for better ping, but really, they ought to just make a second server like other large regions have (China has what, like 4 independent servers?). EUNE and EUW are closer together than West coast and East coast, but they have their own servers (although I know they are definitely not the best servers out there). my point exactly. I think riot should have implemented this to a greater degree. Having 2-3 servers in NA would make ping a small factor to gameplay.
Xys (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=junglerboy16,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=Ka5HG4bA,comment-id=000900000001,timestamp=2015-08-08T00:36:07.191+0000) > > Sorry, I was a bit rude, but I was kind of gloating, and I almost never get to gloat about anything. I'm sorry for the offensive generalization. It just sucks hearing that my ping is going to be tripled when I'm used to something else for the past 4 years when this isn't the correct solution for this massive problem.
> [{quoted}](name=Xys,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=Ka5HG4bA,comment-id=0009000000010000,timestamp=2015-08-08T01:11:51.971+0000) > > It just sucks hearing that my ping is going to be tripled when I'm used to something else for the past 4 years when this isn't the correct solution for this massive problem. you will live trust me. You will get used to ping.
Zhugan (NA)
: I mean, the easiest context I can give is the comedy I find when I saw pros streaming from CA and they would talk about how they were getting a "lag spike" and their ping would still be sub 100. And I'm just sitting here amused because that isn't lag. Lag is when you can be at 30+ fps (my average) and essentially be getting something like 1 frame a second because you're sitting at ping so high. And I can play like that because they choice is play like that or don't play at all. That said, I don't often play ranked because I don't want to bring a team down by suddenly getting a lag spike and basically leaving them 4v5.
> [{quoted}](name=Zhugan,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=Ka5HG4bA,comment-id=0008000100000000,timestamp=2015-08-08T00:57:14.077+0000) > > I mean, the easiest context I can give is the comedy I find when I saw pros streaming from CA and they would talk about how they were getting a "lag spike" and their ping would still be sub 100. And I'm just sitting here amused because that isn't lag. Lag is when you can be at 30+ fps (my average) and essentially be getting something like 1 frame a second because you're sitting at ping so high. > > And I can play like that because they choice is play like that or don't play at all. That said, I don't often play ranked because I don't want to bring a team down by suddenly getting a lag spike and basically leaving them 4v5. By not playing ranked you lose the ability to improve. Most likely one lag spike wont lose you the game, it is the collective effort of the team. if you have decent internet ranked should not be a problem. I don't think people would be scared to play ranked due to occasional lag spikes. If you do have a lot of lag spikes. It is either a hardware or software problem. Go to your local computer specialist or Tom's hardware. If it is internet lag spikes, then talk to your ISP for stable ping. You would do better with stable ping than low ping with spikes.
Zhugan (NA)
: 1. If you are in another region and playing on NA that is your choice. Play on a server in your area and that won't be a problem anymore. Using that as a justification for a person on the east coast having ping that is anywhere from 60-100 ping higher than a west coast player is a lame excuse. 2. There is a ping difference of ~20 on average between people in bronze and people in Diamond+. That difference is consistent over time. A .02 second delay in a game that is about having as near instant a reflex is possible IS a handicap. Will it make bronzies on the east coast jump up to silver/gold? Not likely. But it will mean that people who were stifled by a higher ping might be able to move up a tier or two. 3. Yes, it is fair for their ping to go up. My ping sits around 110-120. With spikes as high as 2500. A person who average 20 ping going up to 60 or 50 going up to 90 is a small price to pay for people in my shoes going from 110-120 down to around 50-70. Because that means the difference between the coasts is an average of 20-30 instead of 70-80. That is a wildly more level playing field. Even if I was still on the high end of this change and not the low end, I would be in support of this choice because it is still a more level playing field. 4. Having more servers is OBVIOUSLY the better idea. But, if you're Riot and likely already invested money in this (otherwise it'd be foolish to make the announcement) they have NO incentive to place more servers when this change does something to create a more balanced playing field. It doesn't create the MOST balanced playing field, but it is still better than the current situation of having a server sit on one coast screwing the others into ping that means an average of a .1 second delay.
> [{quoted}](name=Zhugan,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=Ka5HG4bA,comment-id=00130000,timestamp=2015-08-08T00:45:33.063+0000) > > 1. If you are in another region and playing on NA that is your choice. Play on a server in your area and that won't be a problem anymore. Using that as a justification for a person on the east coast having ping that is anywhere from 60-100 ping higher than a west coast player is a lame excuse. > > 2. There is a ping difference of ~20 on average between people in bronze and people in Diamond+. That difference is consistent over time. A .02 second delay in a game that is about having as near instant a reflex is possible IS a handicap. Will it make bronzies on the east coast jump up to silver/gold? Not likely. But it will mean that people who were stifled by a higher ping might be able to move up a tier or two. > > 3. Yes, it is fair for their ping to go up. My ping sits around 110-120. With spikes as high as 2500. A person who average 20 ping going up to 60 or 50 going up to 90 is a small price to pay for people in my shoes going from 110-120 down to around 50-70. Because that means the difference between the coasts is an average of 20-30 instead of 70-80. That is a wildly more level playing field. Even if I was still on the high end of this change and not the low end, I would be in support of this choice because it is still a more level playing field. > > 4. Having more servers is OBVIOUSLY the better idea. But, if you're Riot and likely already invested money in this (otherwise it'd be foolish to make the announcement) they have NO incentive to place more servers when this change does something to create a more balanced playing field. It doesn't create the MOST balanced playing field, but it is still better than the current situation of having a server sit on one coast screwing the others into ping that means an average of a .1 second delay. 1. You have a LAN server. Go play LAN. Better ping, problem solve. My point is that dont make a huge deal out of it. I use my example in playing abother region, to show that people out of NA play NA, and that they feel your pain, but that does not make you East coasters have the greatest pain. 2. 20 ping average difference. I said if you are good it wont matter. Quas in like South America had like 100 ping above the average diamond person. He went to challenger. His game knowledge triumphs what every you call reaction speed. People in diamond naturally punish people to make plays. You know that if you are in diamond the likeliness of moving a tier or two is really hard. Diamond 1 0lp and Diamond 1 100 lp is a gigantic skill cap. It is like silver 5 to plat 1. You really think that people in diamond are just going to improve with that 20 ping. This requires experience not simple hardware or internet solutions. 3. I am not suggesting that people should not have higher ping. I am suggesting that by having east coast people being toxic, is not making you a superior player or person in the community. I said that by bashing west coast people is not a right thing. They will pay, but let them adjust to their new ping. Everything requires time for adjustment. After 3 months, then the level of play is evened. 4. What I am saying is merely a suggestion that will encompass the needs of the NA player base. I know that it is a far fetched solution, but I thought originally riot was talking with ISP's to make sure coverage is good all around the nation. Instead of just shooting it down, and saying that it is impossible, I think the ideas could be more constructive in a sense. You know that right now instead of the west coasters getting 0.2 ping adv. The central people would get that but you don't seem so hurt by that. In this game someone is always going to have an advantage. Are you going to blame like Rhode Island ( east coast state example), for having a 5 ping adv over you. * To me it sounds like you are just toxic member that wants to release all your rage to the community. I don't mind people expressing their ideas on the boards, but by adding passive aggressiveness in your ideas, you lose your ability to articulate in a rhetoric manner. * No need to go toxic, if you are really that good, you will rise in the ranks. Keep in mind that this is a video game, it is not a job market where you are being discriminated by race. You play for fun, you are most likely not a pro player that plays for a living.
Zhugan (NA)
: I hope you know that sort of grounded, reasonable logic hasn't really been well taken by west coast players.
> [{quoted}](name=Zhugan,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=Ka5HG4bA,comment-id=00120000,timestamp=2015-08-08T00:35:53.579+0000) > > I hope you know that sort of grounded, reasonable logic hasn't really been well taken by west coast players. are you replying to me?
Zhugan (NA)
: West Coast tears make me so happy right now.
As a person that has played in all different ping ranges. (up to 300 all the way down to 50 ping of west coast). I think the ping should be resolved by installing servers in all parts of NA. China for example, has like 8 servers within the whole country. Everyone is playing with decent ping like sub 60, and everyone is honestly happy. As for East Coast people, 150 ping is not bad at all. I played with 300 ping with a vpn in China once, because my parents wont buy me a pc, and they gave me a mac instead. The ping over there is 200-300 ping, and usually the ping spikes to 1k. I am not asking for your sympathy (people who are like *go play chinese server). I am just saying is that riot could do something better to accomodate players. Do you guys think it is fair for someone to go from 50 ping to 90 ping all of a sudden. Yes it feels good for you, but people need to adapt and etc. *Another point to add is that although ping does have an impact on the game, it wont make you a bronze player to a master one. I was bronze in China, and I am bronze in the west coast. I did get better with my mechanics, but my game knowledge is what lost me games. Remember Quas of Team liquid got to challenger in NA by playing with 200 ping. Better ping than any of you. I think that with the right amount of skill, ping is a minor factor of a person's performance. * I also reallly hate bjergsen say like 70 ping is lag. I think it is suitable ping TLDR: East Coast people should not be jerk's as it makes them as guilty as west coast people. Many people like me (in other regions) who want to play NA, are also suffering at a greater degree. Ping is not a accurate measurement of skill. West Coast people should not be too sad of this decision, as the ping is not a dramatic increase. Central people should not become jerks like the west coasters as of before. Riot should make more servers, and make a new agreement with ISP's so that servers can be placed in all 3 parts of USA.
: if tsm wants to go to worlds
That is why we need to stop the bjerg. Bjerg is playing horribly due to pressure. He needs a solid team to be good. He cant be shot caller carry and solo mid.
Rioter Comments
: As a Plat 1 Yasuo main with 400+ Yasuo games, Yasuo needs a damn rework.
I think a nice nerf to him to make him balanced is simply by making his knock up the only way to activate the ult. I don't think double crit is removed, because champs like trend have 35% crit base. Yi has a way to meditate, as well as remove cd from AA. Fiora has a literal zhonya when she ults. Double crit is just part of yasuo's identity. The wind wall could be used as a flow 100% to block everything, but when not 100% it only can proportionally block some targets (up to 3,6,8) depending on flow, and when it has no flow, it would only reduce damage, like splash damage like jinx rocket and such. Or for nami ult the slow is removed and knock up but damage is still there. With these nerf's in mind, i think he should get compensation on his early, with returned base health. His E shouldn't do escalating damage, but instead return flow for the champion. This is my idea of the rework, what do you guys think???? As for his ulti the armor pen can be there, because he is dedicating in to a team fight with little to no escapes. I don't think the armor pen is the main issue, considering in late game many people out damage him. His biggest power spike is mid-late game. This is a result of less crit damage compared to others, and due to how tanky it is people can get. Esp. in tank meta where hard cc is prevalent. without armor pen in late game it is really hard to kill tanks and forces a lw in the build. Yasuo is not your average assassin where you get in and get out. You are like a katarina that needs to get kills but does not have resets. His early is already bad. By removing double crit, you are essentially making him weak even with a shiv. He is a champion that thrives after core items. You don't remove something that is a key in his kit.
: Where are replays? As of pre season 1 "very soon". Honestly I hate that I agree with almost everything the OP said. "(PS: They have already recently talked about what they are doing with the Tribunal in a few News of Legends articles)" Yeah it's coming back the same time they implement replays. "Very soon" except this time that was a mere 4 months ago but there's no real indication that it wont actually be as long as the replays.
> [{quoted}](name=Aametherar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cqhTdXnM,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-07-15T06:17:54.779+0000) > > Where are replays? > > As of pre season 1 "very soon". > > Honestly I hate that I agree with almost everything the OP said. > > "(PS: They have already recently talked about what they are doing with the Tribunal in a few News of Legends articles)" > > Yeah it's coming back the same time they implement replays. "Very soon" except this time that was a mere 4 months ago but there's no real indication that it wont actually be as long as the replays. A rioter has previously responded that the replays are not available is mainly because of their servers. They cannot handle the load of millions of players of replays. The data server's simply are not large enough. For those who are complaining on how Riot is shitty and Blizzard is better. Please realize the Blizzard has much better infrastructure and much of their work is outsourced to other companies. A new building needs a good foundation. A old building who has a good foundation needs a renovation. Riot is the new building trying to build. About the fact on Kalista and etc. A ad is only as good as his or her support. A add is not going to be successful with a horrible support. Every champion has it's strengths. To me kalista is only good with engage supports. Her auto attacks depend on support….. About the people complaining about Zed or Riven. These champions are not invincible. I made a thread a couple days ago, and the boards down voted me a lot. many said i was not articulate on what I was trying to say, and I agree. In this matter I would like to remind everybody, that Zed is no longer a single target assassin that can reliably assassin anybody. (Zhonyas, Cleanse, Exhaust, QSS and etc.) Just because faker or febriven plays good zed, please remind your self that there are tons of counter play. Riven is feast or famine. If you feed her, it is like a fiora you deserve to be destroyed. People complain of Q cool down and etc, and stun…. You need to itemize against her and play smart. Don't join like the yasuo bandwagon, like just because he was OP in the past, it doesn't mean that he deserves like. WIND WALL OP or like Q OP or STATIK OP… notice everything was nerfed and that diamond players have similar remarks on the issue. There are also SLEEPER OP CHAMPIONS IN THE WORLD. JUST BECAUSE LIKE FEBRIVEN OR XPEKE DONT PLAY THEM, I DONT EVER SEE BOARDS SAY ANYTHING….. RIOT IS DOING FINE, LIVE WITH IT. IT IS A FREE GAME OF THE WORLD. YOU CHOOSE TO PLAY THE GAME FOR 4 YEARS. NO ONE FORCED YOU ANYTHING……. EKKO MAY BE OP AND SUCH BUT I AM SICK OF THE BOARDS COMMUNITY ALWAYS COMPLAINING THIS AND THAT. RIOT NEEDS TO WORK AS A COMPANY, AND WE SHOULDN'T EXPECT LEAGUE AS A PERFECT BALANCED GAME. IF ALL CHAMPIONS WERE NOT OP AND WERE "BALANCED" THEN THEIR WONT BE PLAYS AND THE GAME WOULD BE AT A RELATIVE LOW SKILLCAP. JUST BECAUSE YOU DONT KNOW HOW TO PLAY AGAINST A CHAMPION DONT COMPLAIN. JUST BECAUSE YOU AREN'T SATISFIED OF LIKE ONE GAME. PLEASE DO NOT DIRECT THE WHOLE WORLD'S BANDWAGON AT YOU. TY AND PEACE
: To Those Who Are Begging the "OP" Champions to be Disabled. Please realize that they are not OP.
: To Those Who Are Begging the "OP" Champions to be Disabled. Please realize that they are not OP.
Thank You Finally someone acknowledge's that there are sleeper op champions.
Trídent (NA)
: ADCs aren't supposed to 1v1. By your posts, it seems like you're being a hypocrite. Like Vulkrom said, you're basically saying: "Stop saying champs are op.... BTW X Y and Z need nerfs ASAP!"
> [{quoted}](name=TridentSPQR,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lIMKQ4eN,comment-id=0000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-16T04:29:46.958+0000) > > ADCs aren't supposed to 1v1. > > By your posts, it seems like you're being a hypocrite. > > Like Vulkrom said, you're basically saying: > > "Stop saying champs are op.... BTW X Y and Z need nerfs ASAP!" ADC's are suppose to have kiting abilities late game, and have the ability to shred tanks. Rammus in my example is like a unavoidable taunt. That is my example of a way, even if you had 2-3 people against a rammus you still lose.
: To Those Who Are Begging the "OP" Champions to be Disabled. Please realize that they are not OP.
Let me clarify what I was trying to say. Like Trident has said I might not have broadcasted them in a succinct manner. If there are OP champions in the league community, lets just say riven. There are equally enough champions that warrant the same statement, regardless of their popularity. It just frustrates me as a person, that just because a zed pulls a penta it is like normal, yet when like Evelyn or other champions that are not bashed by the community, it becomes like a glorious moment.
Trídent (NA)
: >the point is that they are not close to being invincible. I doubt the average league player thinks that of any champion. Your point isn't well-broadcasted in your posts D:
> [{quoted}](name=TridentSPQR,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lIMKQ4eN,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-16T04:27:46.059+0000) > > I doubt the average league player thinks that of any champion. > > Your point isn't well-broadcasted in your posts D: Yea but I hear like they compalining like katarina ult killed 5 people. Or like Riven got a penta OP... or something like that. Yet when someone gets
Lugg (NA)
: {{champion:33}} is probably the best balanced champion in the game. All champs should be as balanced as him.
> [{quoted}](name=Lugg,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lIMKQ4eN,comment-id=00000000000100000000,timestamp=2015-07-16T04:23:09.147+0000) > > {{champion:33}} is probably the best balanced champion in the game. All champs should be as balanced as him. A tank killing an adc, with an ulti. That is really balanced..
: To Those Who Are Begging the "OP" Champions to be Disabled. Please realize that they are not OP.
Can you guys please provide a elaborate explanation on all the downvotes. That would be appreciated.
Vulkrom (NA)
: The way you made this post makes you sound very hypocritical... you say this in the title: To Those Who Are Begging the "OP" Champions to be Disabled. Please realize that they are not OP. Yet you are saying this later: X and Y aren't OP or toxic, but A and B are.
> [{quoted}](name=Vulkrom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lIMKQ4eN,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-07-16T04:20:21.985+0000) > > The way you made this post makes you sound very hypocritical... you say this in the title: > > To Those Who Are Begging the "OP" Champions to be Disabled. Please realize that they are not OP. > > Yet you are saying this later: X and Y aren't OP or toxic, but A and B are. The point I was trying to make is that, just because the champions are like in the LCS, you need to broaden your vision, and see which are OP. Can I remind you that off meta picks are like really popular on LCS. Faker even played yi mid...
Trídent (NA)
: Just because you beat someone in lane doesn't mean their champion isn't toxic.
> [{quoted}](name=TridentSPQR,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lIMKQ4eN,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-16T04:18:41.660+0000) > > Just because you beat someone in lane doesn't mean their champion isn't toxic. the point is that they are not close to being invincible. There is a reason why pro's dont pick them anymore. Or at least the majority of them. You see once regarded off meta picks on the stage. (Urgot at Spring Split) They have tons of counterplay to their kits. If you think of it Lissandra's ult is a zhonyas, and a claw like a flash. Sivir has a spellshield, and a aoe baron buff..... Anivia has a passive for revive literally and it is hard to kill her in lane. Her EQ combo does insane amounts of damage.
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