: I think one of the biggest problems with old Aatrox is that his kit would punish him for building health/tanky. even if you got defensive items that didnt give health you wouldnt feel powerful enough to survive the onslaught of diving into the enemy team. This is the dilemma they faced. If you were able to snowball early and close out a game quick you really didnt have to worry about itemizing to much, you got a few damage items and it is all over by then. If the game dragged on though you would suddenly start hitting walls where what was once working just ends up getting you killed instantly. at those points however, while other champions like xin zhao, lee sin, rek sai and so on have items they can buy giving them crucial stats like heath and armor/mr, Aatrox was designed to hover in this critical danger zone and as such was meant to shy away from those more attractive build options because it ultimately worsened his play fantasy and play style. That is where I think this iteration has upset his fanbase. Aatrox players loved that danger zone dancer if you will that could survive where others would fail. This change unfortunately takes that fantasy away a bit in exchange for making him a more healthy and versatile fit in the current health and state of the game. This is the biggest dilemma that Riot faces whenever they make any sort of change to a champions state. While their intentions are to bring a champion into a healthier state so that it is more enjoyable to play to the general player base and newer players and see more play time and use. they are almost always going to end up stepping on the old fan bases toes and upset them because their fantasy and direction they want their champion to go, so it can be strong and OP and they can stomp faces is usually unhealthy for the game as a whole which they tend not to take into consideration fully. these changes no doubt take away some of the flare and fancy that Aatrox would strive for in exchange for a bit more mediocre, albeit healthy state. As a company trying to sell a product, in a manner of speaking, they need to make sure that almost every aspect and champion in the game is accessible to both new players and old veterans. Aatrox in his old state only appealed to the older veterans and frequently left newer players leaving games frustrated never to try the champ again. that is a point of failure in a game like this in a game such as this and was going to be addressed at some point. these changes might not be what everyone wants but ultimately it comes down to what the game needs in order to stay healthy for its players both past and future. I am sure that Riot wishes they could make everyone happy, but unfortunately if they did that the game would be very unhealthy and then none of us would be playing.
I see your point but I just want to see if they bring Aatrox to the health state of the game ,which I agree it definitely is especially with the tank reworks going on right now, that they find a way of making him find he's own niche role as one because if he legit is just aatrox but now able to build more health and not able to carry at all for that I'll play a traditional engage tank and even one of the ones that they've been nerfing recently (Maokai) cause they just provide more kit and build wise for a team and make it where no one is playing aatrox because old fans of him and the new ones that play find no point in playing him
Durragon (NA)
: Been an Aatrox main for more over a year now. These changes, in the numbers dont seem to impact MY particular play style, however play testing will be required. My big concern however is that no one is mentioning The mechanics of other champions abilities interacting with Aatrox's Q It seems to vary from champ to champ what the hit boxes are when he dives. Some skills, if they reach the starting point of the Q, will connect, like stuns, AOEs, CC. But then a thresh hook will just...zoom right by. Or a skill shot from Ez will hit the starting point of the Q and proc damage, but an AOE spell exploding in the same area will not. Aside from that, the arguement that hes too hard to comeback form when losing in lane... Is semi valid, in my opinion. Like you said, any melee champ can be hard to come back from when losing. The easiest remedy was sit under tower, Max E, farm and poke (because it dealt magic damage and people usually build armor against Aatrox) AND BUILD TIAMAT. Well, off to go play test!
#PREACH on that Q interactions man I never know how that shit is gonna interact with some of the newer champs abilities when they come out lol But please tell me how play testing goes from what I've heard the passive isn't the greatest takes too long to fill his well and the passive just really doesn't give much attack speed for what it should be doing and how long it takes to fill. And dude that is ALL you can do from behind sometimes lol just collecting what farm you can and poking them at the same time with your E lol I love that ability I forgot if they touched it but I hope not that ability was pretty well done maybe alittle longer ranger and slight damage reduction with a slight slow buff, to make it more of a set ability for him to get in range for autos and makes it less of a poking tool maybe but yeah. Go check my main account (LuigiTheBoss) on the match history when you can, I have some pretty decent {{champion:266}} games my best was the oldest match I played him rest are w.e. and I have a 0/5/0 match that was lag all game q.q, I had stopped playing for a while getting back into the groove of things so training through lvling a smurf account I have lol
: They make these smaller loadout changes because the states they were in before them were untunable. if they made any substantial buffs in an attempt to bring the old state up to par he would likely become to strong and end up being a problem, or the changes would do absolutely nothing, or even make him worse off in the end. by making this new iteration they make it possible to tune him in new ways that wont overpower him. will he be played differently because of these changes, absolutely. Will the new playstyles end up being worse off in the end, only time will tell. this is a new jumping off point they can use to ultimately reach an end goal. It would be great if the turnaround on stuff like this was short but unfortunately it just doesn't work that way. on a positive note, they have finally accepted that reversion to an older state, as seen with Kog Maw, is an option they are willing to take. In the past they had never done that before. so if this iteration tanks in a hard way they might scrap it and return the old iteration but again that only happens after enough time.
I pray they do return to the old iteration just because I feel that a melee engager should be the character that is built around life steal in their kit. They just gotta find the right way how to do it . I spoke in an earlier reply to a comment on how I understand they are trying just a different take on aatrox but why in such a way that the players have to either stop playing this character till they do fix him or play him in one of the weird states of any character in league of legends and that's of the role of a kinda assassin kinda engage tank that just beats people with a wet noodle.
Anth895 (NA)
: For Ryze specifically they did the first rework hoping it would be his last. They weren't planning to do another one so soon after the previous but it was just so bad that they felt they needed to. For Aatrox this change is supposed to make his kit a bit healthier so that they have room to adjust his numbers without making him broken until they can get around to completely reworking his kit to match his theme and make it healthy and fun in a full rework.
And I pray they do him justice because he deserves a good and interesting kit with his lore, title and character design the man is the epitome of awesome and I'm happy he is finally getting love, But I just don't feel this is the right way I believe they needed to do a temporary fix you balance his numbers and maybe changed a few interactions with his kit but you don't change the core value of his kit in a alright way then go back to him again and fix the now new problems of that kit that is found by hours of playing him in the dreadful state he's in. He is in one of the weirdest states right now he's kinda a assassin and a engage tank that beats people with a long wet noodle that is very item reliant to do anything real interesting tbh and I just don't see it.
: Actually no. Many mains including myself have always stated that Aatrox was in nearly an okay state, and quite OP in many ways. We mained him because we liked him and we were good with him. I wanted some changes, but very little. In fact I posted many time about this because I was scared they would do something like this.
W200 (NA)
: - Take the idea of Aatrox's lore and think of him as a buffing champion. Someone who could be played jungle or support with sustain for himself and buffs for his team. He cannot work in his current state because he has the problems of melee carries being too feast or famine. The reason he can be played right now in solo queue as a burst AD caster is because of his unhealthy passive and blood price, to the point where if you forgo buying attack speed in place of pure damage you get enough power to Q -> Blood Price W -> R and often assassinate targets with half or less health when done successfully. When ahead this combo applies to full health targets. This is because blood price scales heavily with attack damage enough so it is as potent as two auto attacks, (and with critical chance at least four.) As well as blood well granting 20-50% attack speed when full, allowing fervor of battle to stack granting more AD alongside your runes/items. Aatrox could be designed around winning by inspiring teammates. He has no identity as a split pushing duelist because that's what rivals him, Trydnamere. And Aatrox gets the short end of the stick when it comes to abilities. His E has no place in a team-fight because it's only useful in lane or a chase situation. Trydnamere's W can't be missed, it only matters if the enemy's backs are toward him. Aatrox's ultimate is very fun but lacks any utility outside of more attack range, meaning no team-fight prowess without being ahead. Unlike Trydnamere's five seconds of invulnerability granting a good push or retreat. You cannot win a team-fight because Aatrox is there. He could have dived in but would then be away from his team and subject to dying twice. If anything you can win a team-fight just because Aatrox isn't there, if he's behind or ahead it only matters that he gets an objective. Meaning he's better off splitpushing, or doing a dragon by himself. Stonewall008 may say he has a steep gold requirement like Master Yi or Trydnamere. But those champions get some of that gold back by getting an important pick or chaining kills. The only value Aatrox has is his attack speed in his passive and ultimate. The only times Aatrox is chaining kills is when he's already got tons of kills, which he can only easily get in a 1v1. Aatrox without blood price or blades of torment is still Aatrox. Fans of the champion just find him fun, more often than not take offense to what's meta and what's good. So how fun will the rework be? Probably loads. Every full-scale rework has it's problems, all this champion identity confusion. But what matters most in a redesigned character is how it feels to play the champion, and how it feels to go against the champion. Whatever happens... happens. But right now I'd like to see a callback to support junglers done right. The idea of a melee carry class in inherently flawed with win hard or lose harder play. So if auto attack reliant champions have to change into more assassin like figures, why can't Aatrox (who casts more abilities than the likes of Trydnamere and Master Yi with passives) change into a buffing champion that rivals the debuffer Trundle? As much as one is defense the other can be offense, ironically the defensive champion has a debuff to the enemy and the offensive champion buffs an ally. - The re imagining here is a mistake, Aatrox players don't want a melee vladmir they want something unique.
this is a really good idea but the only problem is you explained it too wordy so a lot people prob scrolled by it lol but def a really cool idea that should be further looked into
: OMG! Atrox was fun to play cause of his revive, he is already incredibly weak....in a 30 min game I revived once...so ya fix it riot....ya fix it now cause ima be thinking Ill live in a 1v1...NOPE YOU DIE...his abilties took away all of my meter....why have a meter bro?
barbazu (NA)
: That's what I'm thinking why spend time making a temporary change for him when they are gonna change him again, I was also confused when they did a rework on Ryze to rework him again later. Maybe its because because I'm incompetent but I don't understand why they tend to make changes that will slightly change the champion to where they want him later instead of just putting it where they want his numbers to be.
yeah and the change made no sense dude instead of fixing what was wrong with the current kit oh here's lets take away how it originally worked and here's a whole new main mechanic of his kit with a set of problems to find and like i'm just like... bruuuuuuuh why????
: Awful changes. I understand this is essentially a band-aide to fixing the overall issues with Aatrox, but for the time being you have neutered this champion beyond belief. I used to absolutely love him, and would concede to the fact that what you described about getting out ahead and becoming a god through insane lifesteal could at times be broken. This was the solution though? Why throw a half-assed attempt at a temporary solution. You would have been better off deactivating him while you worked on his issues as compared to this... I believe that's exactly what was done with GP, but I could be remembering wrong. Just because its a stop gap doesn't mean you don't have to put any thought or attention into it.
YO I loved {{champion:266}} too that was my %%%%% on my main, and I love this comment its exactly what I was saying in my comment that I posted right after yours lol
: Patch 7.5 - Revisiting Aatrox
I was a {{champion:266}} main for a while on my main account and tbh he wasn't that bad the way he was it really showed the difference of players who played him a few times and who knew when to take trades and how to properly, it literally was a champ you just had to learn how to fight your opponent in top lane with. He takes a lot of games to be able to take him into anything in the top lane even in normals and do well consistently. That being said I see why the argument is when behind he is difficult to get back into the game with cause he builds straight damage and when behind anyone that you have to build damage with while trying to get back into the game with is difficult but that's with just about anyone who's a melee squishy champ tbh just cause its that easier to kill you when your losing. So finally,(lol) I believe taking his life stealing aspect of his abilities and changing his old passive was a very unnecessarily big change to change him again later, SMH RIOT.

TSM LuigiTheBoss

Level 13 (NA)
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