Tarlanor (NA)
: Can supports get more downtime between shields? Windows of vulnerability where Assassins can go in
I 100% agree, this allows Assassins to have windows of power where they are exceptionally powerful if done correctly.
Rioter Comments
: When has Karma ever been born in Noxus? She's always been Ionian
> [{quoted}](name= Król Wilk Sam,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=cXx0nG5A,comment-id=0005000000010000,timestamp=2018-04-13T03:31:55.308+0000) > > When has Karma ever been born in Noxus? > > She's always been Ionian A moderator who cant read LOL
: If you're not fixing Hexdrinker you're not fixing any burst mages in the game
I see nothing wrong here except you going in with no ult.
: Why does Mordekaiser have 325 MS then? Huh? HUH?!
> [{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=atb9iABv,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2018-04-04T16:44:55.460+0000) > > Why does Mordekaiser have 325 MS then? > Huh? > > HUH?! Why can mordekaiser make my ADC his? Why is his burst much higher? Why are his basestats better? Although he needs help too.
Sukishoo (NA)
: > and she's supposed to be a kite mage that dives into fights According to Riot https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/taking-another-look-subclasses She's a Burst Mage.... doesn't do much burst if you ask me lel.
> [{quoted}](name=Sukishoo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=atb9iABv,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2018-04-04T15:14:36.214+0000) > > According to Riot https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/taking-another-look-subclasses > She's a Burst Mage.... doesn't do much burst if you ask me lel. And if she did people would just complain about her point and click CC that can be cleansed and needs your squishy ass to be in gapcloser range using your E , melee range W and 85 mana cost Q all ranks. That's why they might as well just solidify her as a ap bruiser lol.
Vekkna (NA)
: Just take Relentless Hunter for the time being. Her MS feels like shit because she's such a strong roamer but takes forever to actually get anywhere. Relentless Hunter fixes that super well.
> [{quoted}](name=Vekkna,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=atb9iABv,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2018-04-04T16:00:38.350+0000) > > Just take Relentless Hunter for the time being. Her MS feels like shit because she's such a strong roamer but takes forever to actually get anywhere. Relentless Hunter fixes that super well. With the buffs to the insight mastery that speeds you up when you CC a target I've now found a way to play her that I enjoy. Celerity, that mastery and magic boots. Archangels, spellbinder, Ionian boots. 427 MS without the CC speedup or spellbinder active.
: MS is the last thing that's an issue with Liss.
> [{quoted}](name=Catastrop,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=atb9iABv,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2018-04-04T17:39:40.499+0000) > > MS is the last thing that's an issue with Liss. That's why we're taking baby steps. Lol.
: I would argue that it's Lissandra's Q that keeps her at such low MS. I don't know if it is the reason she has low base MS, but it does allow her, when she has the mana, to pretty much perma-slow someone.
> [{quoted}](name=TheHappyReaperz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=atb9iABv,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2018-04-04T19:28:18.301+0000) > > I would argue that it's Lissandra's Q that keeps her at such low MS. I don't know if it is the reason she has low base MS, but it does allow her, when she has the mana, to pretty much perma-slow someone. Which she never does in lane. 85 mana per Q. And her passive is on a 19 second cooldown early. Her range is also terrible.
: Because Lissandra has a 1.5s slow on a 6-3s cooldown. As a general rule, "You aren't allowed to interact with this champion" is something riot tries to avoid.
> [{quoted}](name=BobaFlautist,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=atb9iABv,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-04-04T15:05:46.348+0000) > > Because Lissandra has a 1.5s slow on a 6-3s cooldown. > > As a general rule, "You aren't allowed to interact with this champion" is something riot tries to avoid. Lmao her slow is 26% at max rank. You telling me she's healthier than Gnar or Quinn?
: > [{quoted}](name=Cynikul,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=atb9iABv,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-04-04T09:13:20.656+0000) > > Your comparison to Karmas shield is awful. They're two completely different tools and utilities. One is essentially a blink , which she has the OPTION of taking too, while one shields and increases speed- where whatever direction you're going - youre going. Also if youre disabled you cannot move, lissandra has such a long cast that she can take it at the end of a disable usually. > > That being said, I do agree her MS needs increased. IDK if you noticed this, but mages always have lower speeds than melee champions or auto attack reliant champions. Grounded effects completely destroy Lissandra and again Liss is someone who's meant to DIVE into the fight. So when Lissandra engages with her amazing escape, guess what she has to get out again? Nothing.
> Grounded effects completely destroy Lissandra and again Liss is someone who's meant to DIVE into the fight. So when Lissandra engages with her amazing escape, guess what she has to get out again? Nothing. Karma shield uptime is vastly superior and has the utility to speed up not only her but her ENTIRE team. Also if Lissandra needs to E out and is CC'ed she's more often than not dead! Can the same be said about Karma?
Cynikul (NA)
: Your comparison to Karmas shield is awful. They're two completely different tools and utilities. One is essentially a blink , which she has the OPTION of taking too, while one shields and increases speed- where whatever direction you're going - youre going. Also if youre disabled you cannot move, lissandra has such a long cast that she can take it at the end of a disable usually. That being said, I do agree her MS needs increased. IDK if you noticed this, but mages always have lower speeds than melee champions or auto attack reliant champions.
> [{quoted}](name=Cynikul,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=atb9iABv,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-04-04T09:13:20.656+0000) > > Your comparison to Karmas shield is awful. They're two completely different tools and utilities. One is essentially a blink , which she has the OPTION of taking too, while one shields and increases speed- where whatever direction you're going - youre going. Also if youre disabled you cannot move, lissandra has such a long cast that she can take it at the end of a disable usually. > > That being said, I do agree her MS needs increased. IDK if you noticed this, but mages always have lower speeds than melee champions or auto attack reliant champions. Grounded effects completely destroy Lissandra and again Liss is someone who's meant to DIVE into the fight. So when Lissandra engages with her amazing escape, guess what she has to get out again? Nothing.
Dysnomia (EUNE)
: I just noticed that in a game yesterday. Annoying for real. Shyvanna managed to simply run away with low hp.
> [{quoted}](name=Dysnomia,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=atb9iABv,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-04-04T08:27:52.933+0000) > > I just noticed that in a game yesterday. Annoying for real. Shyvanna managed to simply run away with low hp. I've updated my post and would like to hear further thoughts. Thanks.
: Lissandra is kind of all over the place (to me..), she's like a support for the JG when mid. Just farm farm farm until the JG decides to gank = free kills 80% of the time. Her kit is OVERLOADED with CC, Q is a slow, W is a root, E is a teleport (a type of mobility I'm guessing for the lack of movement speed?), and her ult is a stun.. her lockdown. I love the idea and concept of her kit but she just doesn't feel like she's there.. if you know what I mean. She needs more of something.
> [{quoted}](name=Epicly Infamous,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=atb9iABv,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-04-04T08:28:32.663+0000) > > Lissandra is kind of all over the place (to me..), she's like a support for the JG when mid. Just farm farm farm until the JG decides to gank = free kills 80% of the time. Her kit is OVERLOADED with CC, Q is a slow, W is a root, E is a teleport (a type of mobility I'm guessing for the lack of movement speed?), and her ult is a stun.. her lockdown. I love the idea and concept of her kit but she just doesn't feel like she's there.. if you know what I mean. She needs more of something. I mean when you have maokai, ornn, sejuani running around with more sticking power reliability than a mage, you realize why liss isn't picked.
InTheory (EUW)
: It's due to her constant slows, roots and stuns - even her E that has no CC on it grants her mobility instead. Lissandra needs to have a low Movement Speed for opponents to actually engage and stick on her.
> [{quoted}](name=InTheory,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=atb9iABv,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-04-04T08:28:22.525+0000) > > It's due to her constant slows, roots and stuns - even her E that has no CC on it grants her mobility instead. Lissandra needs to have a low Movement Speed for opponents to actually engage and stick on her. While that was true in the past the game has evolved to where mobility is rampant. Items like rightous glory, shurelyas, mallet , black cleaver and even zeal items MS make it so kiting with is harder, that's why zeal items give so much mobility. You're telling me Camille , Kai'sa , Gnar, Renekton, Olaf, Yi, Pantheon can't stick to Lissandra? Even Urgot can chase me down! Truth is the only people lissandra can actually kite anymore are Darius and Garen and if they catch her she's more than likely dead.
Rioter Comments
Onotori (NA)
: If Ashe is so weak, why is she very commonly picked / banned in LCS? They play for literally nothing but the win. They wouldn't play a weak champ in that kind of mindset.
> [{quoted}](name=Konotori,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vlmOFPLP,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2018-04-02T05:28:50.030+0000) > > If Ashe is so weak, why is she very commonly picked / banned in LCS? They play for literally nothing but the win. They wouldn't play a weak champ in that kind of mindset. She's team reliant, obviously. Should she be unviable at all levels of play?
Onotori (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=ReshiKillim,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vlmOFPLP,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-04-02T03:13:21.929+0000) > > Annoying as she can be, can we appreciate what's in her kit and what's not? > > * Does not abuse on hit effect items. Except hurricane literally breaks when she uses her Q, and it hits everything in range instead of just 2 targets. > * Can be built to excel at shredding tankier enemies, but at the cost of some of her damage to squishier targets, instead of just being better at killing both like many other marksmen. Ashe can delete squishies and tanks alike with a very standard build. Don't have to modify it much outside of opting into an LDR / MR. > * You can judge her damage output potential much more accurately than any other marksman in the game, regardless of which team you're on. Not really. Her damage multiplies by 5 times when she uses her Q, so you can't accurately gauge her damage until she turns it on -- at which point you're dead anyway. > * Generally not oppressive to play against. Yeah I'd argue against that with her W doing what, 100 damage at level 1, and only going up from there, having no CD and minimal mana costs. Plus it's a free hit unless you have a full minion wave. > * Does not burst assassins to death before they can get in range. Maybe not Zed. Any other assassin though... yeah they're not touching her. > * Her damage scales in a very straightforward and fair manner, which does not allow her to hypersnowball like some other marksmen do. It does, but it scales far too sharply, and leaves her one shotting after building a BF and a Zeal. > * She doesn't shred turrets. Without Q, sure. > She's the best example of a marksman who fits the "High sustained DPS" design paradigm, instead of burst per second, as is common with the current majority of marksmen. She's the best example of how even the "most balanced" or "weakest" ADC is still a god relative to any class that isn't an ADC. She can build lifesteal and drain tank anything (I had a fun forum post talking about a 6-tentacle ult with my fed Illaoi (building mostly damage) and Ashe facetanking it all thanks to lifesteal) while tripling the damage output of anything, even other ADCs, if given more than two seconds to attack you. Ashe is not balanced. Maybe among ADCs she is, but not in the grander scheme. She shouldn't delete squishies, melt tanks, have a global stun / vision control, unavoidable poke, absurd slows for free and her broken interaction with hurricane. Short of one shotting her... you don't win.
> [{quoted}](name=Konotori,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vlmOFPLP,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-04-02T05:14:35.607+0000) > > Except hurricane literally breaks when she uses her Q, and it hits everything in range instead of just 2 targets. > > Ashe can delete squishies and tanks alike with a very standard build. Don't have to modify it much outside of opting into an LDR / MR. > > Not really. Her damage multiplies by 5 times when she uses her Q, so you can't accurately gauge her damage until she turns it on -- at which point you're dead anyway. > > Yeah I'd argue against that with her W doing what, 100 damage at level 1, and only going up from there, having no CD and minimal mana costs. Plus it's a free hit unless you have a full minion wave. > > Maybe not Zed. Any other assassin though... yeah they're not touching her. > > It does, but it scales far too sharply, and leaves her one shotting after building a BF and a Zeal. > > Without Q, sure. > > She's the best example of how even the "most balanced" or "weakest" ADC is still a god relative to any class that isn't an ADC. She can build lifesteal and drain tank anything (I had a fun forum post talking about a 6-tentacle ult with my fed Illaoi (building mostly damage) and Ashe facetanking it all thanks to lifesteal) while tripling the damage output of anything, even other ADCs, if given more than two seconds to attack you. > > Ashe is not balanced. Maybe among ADCs she is, but not in the grander scheme. She shouldn't delete squishies, melt tanks, have a global stun / vision control, unavoidable poke, absurd slows for free and her broken interaction with hurricane. Short of one shotting her... you don't win. You are literally silver if you think ashe is busted. LOL. And before you say anything slick i'm posting from smurf where i play aftershock lissandra top and still have positive W/R.

Talentedco

Level 53 (NA)
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