What's sad is that I can see this.

Gangplank's personality was transplanted far better then old Swains: He's still a pirate captain, but older, crueler... He is a different person though Swain's rework is... fine in a gameplay sense, I miss his old kit and his old story. there was less focus on battle prowless and more on schemes, deception...

This sums it up well. I like Swain being a badass but well, I miss his old traits, makes him feel unquie

I mean he's not THAT handsome...

Sad but true... course, that's always been true, been saying that for a while. Heck, they removed the league of legends!

I mean they shared a similar head... and league was more cartoony back then....

Maybe, hopefully a legendary skin could do that for the ult?

Whoops...

oh, well that's good! And in character.

He Had nothing to lose... now that's more true then ever.

I mean that's subjective. Personally I think he's too Silver Foxy...

Oh that I love as well! DoT is always fun! Wonder what's with the design team on that... He also Had a relasionship (and implied romantic that was... further implied to be him manipulating her.) with Lebalc in the old lore.

> thats why they gave him the ability to look into peoples souls, so that he has access to a lot of information, allowing him to easily manipulate others I didn't know this... this seems a bit like... overkill? Or a way for a writer to make it easier to write swain reading a person. I mean it's understandable why they would give him that ability, but if that's in addation to what I figured would be complex information networks... well that's overkill. > It's just that new Swain didn't have a lot of time to show this off. Remember that old Swains grand scheme went on for several stories, starting with him capturing J4, after that Boram died, then he went on to bolster his position in the kalamanda conflict and after that he finally became the grand general by killing one of Borams sons(speaking of them, I'd actually like it if they introduced them back in the new lore). Meanwhile new Swain simply didn't have enough lore releases to pull of something like this. Fair point. > My biggest gripe with new swains lore is actually that it skipped over the way Swain was able to subdue Beatrice and that Swain seemingly killed Boram with a big revolution instead of the above scheme. Both of these decisions feel like they were only made to keep his bio short. I agree with this as well. I assume they're gonna make a few short stories about it. Now the Revolution would make sense, but I would basicly try to make sure Swain had some measure of controlling both sides? Like a Palpatine thing (Heck, this could be an event of somekind if riot wants, the potential in the revolution is rich.) Or at least maintain backup plans and malupulating the others so the revolution ends in his favor. A chance to show his social prowless I suppose. Also, the Darkwill Family would be interesting just for Internal Noxian politics and the implications and motives one of the family would have..

That's fair i suppose. Still, I like me a cane...

Well Swain may have been faking being crippled (His old dance emote... however canon that was) So i don't mind it too much but... well, the Demonic Hand isn't that much of a crippling... being crippled was.

You know, i like Ashe having some religion, but it's so... melodramatic. Like I get it she's a leader and the like but it's basicly hammering it in like a Sledgedriver. It's like she has no personality beyond her being the Unifier...

Icanthia, where he's from... no one cared who he was until he put on that mask so i don't think we'll be seeing his face under it (and we shouldn't... cooler that way.)

If not directly altered, she is likely being manipulated by the aspect; keep in mind that before hand her main reason for the climb was to kill Diana, now she doesn't have a reason to kill her, and would reason to be separate from any of her warriors (Read; other people) once Diana was found. The Fact in Diana's story she was the only one spared compounds that something is not quite right with either aspect. But thank you for being reasonable.

Last I checked they are basicly described as a PERFECT synchronicity; there is no telling where Zoe Ends and it begins... I see no Dichotomy; we'd see Zoe Struggle with it if there was.

Yes... in fact that's why I have this thread; I'm talking about old-pantheon by referring to the metaphysical parasite as a parasite. It's referring to the THING called an aspect.

Oh hello again! We've had this discussion before. My problem is that it seems far, far too easy; indoctrination is not changed by given evidence of a different position. The Aspect basicly showed her all the evidence, and given divine nature, likely irrefutable... This is why she's going to Diana, to confirm this information. Now if you ask me this, along with diana's story shows the aspects control; manipulating the two of them for their own ends. Diana and Leona are now separate form their institutions and depending on them... She may be in charge now... but Diana's already a puppet, and Leona... well, I've laid out my problems with her already.

> What do you want Taric to fight for, if not a flower And I told you ways I think would make it work to have him fight for a flower. Is that too hard?

I think having Flash is too much of a boon to give up.

I mean you have to admit being an edy boi gives him a bit of charm. I think the writing could be better of course, but I love him and Rhaast…

No in fact that's the worse thing to have in an inquisitor; You need someone who is able to command both Fear and loyalty. Someone who radiates authority. Someone with the skills to investigate carefully, someone who could make you sell your own mother into slavery with a stern glare. You need someone so faithful, so deciated to Demacia that no one can make them turn. Unfortunately New! Leona is no where near Demacia, but you'd need someone like her.

Oh wow I didn't know that... Have to check on them. I'm surprised they didn't pull a Janie and make them... well, celestial sprits? They're already angels... But i'll have to read their lore before forming an opinion. It IS weird they aren't talked about, perhaps they weren't initially planned to b Aspects until later?

> I think you're characterizing Zoe improperly. As an ancient being, she thinks on a different timescale than a typical person and has seen things people aren't usually witness to. Your right... and considering she still acts like a child it's disconcerting... > I think you're characterizing Zoe improperly. As an ancient being, she thinks on a different timescale than a typical person and has seen things people aren't usually witness to. Yes and that makes her typical attitude more alien... and she's not really strongly presenting as this alien, faeish being despite that probably being more consistent with her duites and lore. > A little village of people? She's seen the fall of civilizations. In the end, these things and these people are of little cosmic significance, and so that's how she regards them. So we agree on this? That's she's an alien little thing and a danger to the innocents of Runeterra? Okay. > And as far as not having wisdom befitting a being of her age, she has plenty of lines that explore the nature of the cosmos and her duties as an Aspect I mean kinda? She could be more interesting as a... Fae like, alien figure but she's played mostly as a quirky character instead of this incredibly dangerous and powerful girl. (Heck I argued with someone who worked on her on it when she came out; she's insanely dangerous and her quirkiness and cuteness hurts that part of her character) > But then again, she's had a thousand years to ponder things like that. Here on Runeterra, after being gone for so long, she's more interested in all of things she's experiencing as new for her and everything's that changed. You also just said she's seen things we wouldn't believe… why is she interested in it? She's seen so much Runeterra is just another stop. She shows no concerns... well, no human concerns anyways; her family? Her culture? GONE. Humans/ So CuTE! Opps I broke them... Like I want them to maintain a focus on her; either she's a quirky child or she's no longer human. You can't have both without making her seem unsympathic or inhuman. There's a reason I Like Star Guardian Zoe; she's barely any different then canon Zoe.

look, let me put it this way; a flower is nice and all, but life is more beautiful. Taric's protector thing is to protect the beauty of the world. Now the FLower is the only one of it's kind, but that's nature, it's gonna die and it's likely already spread it's pollen and passed on it's genes... the battle that he goes to is one where people WILL die. He cares more about the flower. There are ways to change it; I suggested a field of flowers that will one day be a cure to their ills, but basicly, he needs a better reason to beat people up other then "They might step on this flower while killing eachother!" Which makes him seem petty and... well stupid as well. At least give him more of a reason.

I mean this is lore-wise. Gameplay wise... maybe?

> Also she did many thing that a straight up "zealot" wouldn't do, she helped the golden skin demon boy up the mountain when she wasn't supposed to which is what got her in trouble in the first place and she's actively seeking out Diana, a heretic btw, not to kill her, but seemingly just to talk and make sense of what she now knows. The Golden boy was before being indoctrinated by her little cult. and then there's this when Diana is Speechifying; _"Leona felt her anger build with every word Diana spoke, and when the elders rejected her words and named her a blasphemer, Leona knew it would be her blade that ended the heretic’s life." " Leona knew there was only one path open to her. She would hunt down and destroy the heretic Diana for the murder of the Solari elders." "The heretic’s footsteps were like shimmering mercury to Leona’s eyes, leading ever higher up the slopes of Mount Targon. Leona did not falter, climbing through a landscape that seemed strange and unfamiliar, as though she followed paths that had never existed until this moment. The sun and moon passed overhead in a blur, as if many days and nights passed with her every breath. She neither stopped to eat nor drink, letting fury sustain her beyond what should have been humanly possible."_ This only goes away after her aspect shows her the city and after the merger is when the Leona changes.. now the weird thing is up until this point her rage at Diana and her desire to kill her was her driving force. With Old Pantheon that make it seem like... well, the Aspect affected her mind. I don't mind her killing; that's just survival, but the Solari don't have any depth, being the Evil religious people, and making Leona their attack dog only makes them look worse. > Diana is in control of her own actions. Only old Pantheon was a complete slave to his Aspect. Nothing in Diana's life was in her control. _" They had travelled from a distant land, drawn by dreams of a mountain they had never seen and the promise of revelation. Exhaustion and blinding stormwinds overwhelmed them on the eastern slopes of the mountain, and there, beneath cold, pitiless moonlight, Diana came into the world as her mother breathed her last." " Yet Diana found moonlight entrancing and beautiful in a way the harsh sun glaring down the mountain could never match. Every night the young girl would wake from dreams of climbing the mountain to sneak from the initiates’ dormitories to pick night-blooming flowers and watch freshwater springs turn silver in the moonlight." "At night, watching the silver moon rise over the impossibly distant summit, she felt more and more like an outcast. The urge to climb the mountain’s flanks was like an itch that could never be scratched, but everything she had been taught since birth told her the mountain would claim more than just her life should she ever try. Only the most worthy and heroic dared make such an ascent. With every passing day, Diana felt more alone and more certain that some vital aspect of her life remained unfulfilled." " A glint of light behind a sagging bookcase drew Diana’s eyes, and upon investigation, she discovered the partially burned pages of an ancient manuscript. Diana took the pages and read them beneath the full moon that very night, and what she read unlocked a door into her soul." " This was a revelation to the girl with the sable hair, and as she looked beyond the moonlit temple walls, she saw an elderly woman wrapped in a bearskin cloak trudging up the far path that eventually led to the mountain’s summit. The woman’s steps were faltering and she leaned on a carved staff of willow to remain upright. She saw Diana and called for help, saying that she had to reach the top of the mountain before morning — an ambition Diana knew was utterly impossible." "Diana’s desire to help the woman and climb the mountain warred with everything the Solari taught. The mountain was for the worthy, and Diana had never felt worthy of anything. Again the woman asked for her help, and this time Diana did not hesitate. She scrambled over the walls and took the woman’s arm, leading her up the mountain, amazed someone so aged had even made it this far. They climbed for hours, above the clouds and into the chill air where the moon and stars glittered like diamonds. Despite her age, the woman kept climbing, urging Diana onwards when she stumbled or when the air grew thin and cold."_ At this point i'm just quoting the story but i'm gonna continue with the major ones. _"Diana stumbled down the mountain in a fugue state, oblivious to her surroundings, until she found herself before a cleft in the mountainside; a cave mouth that would have been invisible but for the moonlight shadows. Cold and needing shelter for the night, Diana sought refuge within the cave" "Diana reached out, and as her fingers touched the cold steel of the armor, her mind exploded with images of lives she had never lived, memories she had never experienced and sensations she had never known. Scraps of ancient history raged like a blizzard in her mind; secret knowledge she but dimly grasped and innumerable futures scattered like wind-blown dust." "When the visions faded, Diana saw she was now fully clad in the silver warplate, armor that fitted her as though wrought especially for her. Her mind was still afire with newly-acquired knowledge, but much of it remained frustratingly out of reach, like a picture half in shadow, half in light." "Diana was appalled. How could the elders reject what was so patently true? How could they turn their back on revelations brought from the very summit of the holy mountain? Her fury built at their willful blindness, and blazing orbs of silver fire spun in the air around her. With a scream of rage-fueled frustration, Diana’s sword swept out, and where it struck, silver fire burned with killing light. Again and again, Diana lashed out and when her fury ebbed, she saw the carnage she had unleashed."_ She kills them all (Aside from Leona SURELY a coincidence… surely...) _"Appalled at what she had done, Diana fled the site of the massacre, escaping into the wilds of Mount Targon as the Solari reeled from the savagery of her attack." And she's even surprised she did it in the first place..._ It may not have been their intention, but... yeah it fits well.

I feel it's too... petty. It's one flower, the last of it's kind, but it's genetics are already spread and the conflict between the Noxians and Demacians would cost more lives then just the flower. Basicly give him more of a reason to protect it is what i'm saying.

I always thought of their relationship as both of them making power plays with each other. Both of them are using each other for their own goals, but they do genuinely love each other. Still, each and every action they do is to further there goals and Swain and LeBlac try to use their relationship to sway events in their favor.

> And that will be? New Diana and her amazing super-special-choclate-coated-Aspect. > Man the hate you have towards New Targon is of the charts Fixed for you. > Why do you hate my champion so much? I hate new Diana because i liked Old Diana, She was more complex, interesting, and just plain better than her replacement.

> Dude why cant you just apprieciate something you have in front of you? Because this comic reminds me of a better time for Targon's lore, back before the immoral space parasites, Leona being a murderer, Diana actually having an interesting character, Pantheon not being a parasite, Zoe not existing, ect. > I dont see Riot making a comic so i'll take it concidering it was created 5 years ago and when they do make that comic, it won't be about Diana, it will be about her replacement.

> It isn't implied that the Aspect made her killed the elders in her story. Read this again > Diana was appalled. How could the elders reject what was so patently true? How could they turn their back on revelations brought from the very summit of the holy mountain? Her fury built at their willful blindness, and blazing orbs of silver fire spun in the air around her. With a scream of rage-fueled frustration, Diana’s sword swept out, and where it struck, silver fire burned with killing light. Again and again, Diana lashed out and when her fury ebbed, she saw the carnage she had unleashed. The elders were dead and Leona lay on her back, her armor smoking as though fresh from the forge. Appalled at what she had done, Diana fled the site of the massacre, escaping into the wilds of Mount Targon as the Solari reeled from the savagery of her attack. However, when she was finished, she was horrified at what she did. There are to possibilities, One is that she was genuinely angry enough to kill them, but the text implies she didn't want to do it. The ASpect influencing her emotions makes a better cases, especially so as this Helped Leona climb the mountain. > Based on Aurelion's Lore it is possible for the Aspects to know their next host before they are even born, so showing her parents visions to get them to come to Mount Targon was a form of insurance for the Aspect. True, but why did it need for those two to die? What gives it the right to drive to people to insanity and cause them to die on the mountain? Hell, Taric's lore shows that there hosts don't need to be Targonian, only fit their approval. > It makes sense that the Aspect had to help her discover the Lunari, how else would a girl without any of knowledge of its existence, discover a religion quashed by the Solari elders. Aside from a mere coincidence the Aspect revealing the manuscript to her, is the next best option. Well, old Diana actually searched for it herself, being a bookish person back then. She found old manuscripts about the Lunari and found it herself. New Diana showed no active searching and the book she found happened to be handed to her by her aspect. It makes new Diana come off as an idiot who doesn't know what she's talking about (Why didn't the Solari let her 'shine like the sun' if she was already arguing with them?) and needs her hand held like a child. > Where does Leona kill someone for disagreeing with her? Read Leona's lore, she wanted to murder Diana or daring to question the Solari elders (actually, how is she more indoctrinated then the woman who was raised by the Solari?) and was eagerly awaiting to murder her. And when Diana escaped, she used that raw, undying fury to climb the equivalent of Mount Everest.

Oh yeah, I like the comic too, but you really need to see Diana's knew lore and compare and contrast with this. It's sadly not canon, as much as we want it to be.

Sorry, this isn't canon anymore.

> So to summarize you are saying that Diana is a mindless Minion who has no control over her life and choices and actions and everything that happened so far it was ment to happen because the Moon wanted so and that her Entire life was preplanned from the very begining? Yep, that's very clear if you read the lore. She has a personality yes, but the Original Diana earned everything. The Moon aspect in this version gave her everything. Nothing Diana has is truly her own. Please, feel free to quote her lore and prove me wrong, but i read it. Show me how it isn't. > If thats what you are saying about Diana then it must be the same for the rest of the aspects like i said right? Yes, tell that to Atreus.... Oh wait, you can't because Pantheon posses his body and kicked him out. New Leona gave up her murderous hatred of Diana when her aspect got inside her (despite that hate being the thing that let her climb the mountain.). Zoe is separated from her parents and friends, is essentially a child solider , but doesn't have any sort of trauma for it and displayes sociopathic tendencies, and didn't even have a 'choice' in the matter in the same way the others did. Taric, while the nicer among the aspects, is willing to beat people p over a flower. > My only question is Why are you Spreading all this hate and lies for what? Welcome to the boards, you posted something and i posted something back. I loved Old Targon, and i hate new Targon. I don't see how this is hatefull, nor can i see how they are lies. Your free to disagree with me, so long as you understand I am free to disagree with you. You wanted to talk about Diana, because we both love playing her, but we have separate opinions on her new lore. This Board is for people to discuss their opinions. > I think you must be a Leona main I play Adcs, Supports occasionally. Leona was my favorite support, true, but I liked ALL of Targons Champions. Pantheon helped me get to level 30, Diana was amazing with her burst damage, and Leona fit my aggressiveness and also my protectiveness of my teammates. I haven't played with them since the new lore, and probably never will again. > Sorry to say but you DONT know the first thing about the champions personality let alone her lore Old Diana was a studious, socially awkward girl who was raised by the Solari for reason not known. As she felt more comfortable with the moon then in the sun, she thought there had to be something more to the moon. She hit the books and discovered evidence of a once great civilivation, the Lunari. She put on the Armor and Sword that she found, Eager to show her evidence to the Solari, only to be tortured and proclaimed a heretic. Before she was murdered, she called out for the moon, and the moon answered. She killed her captors, but in vengeance swore to bring the SOlari down and bring back the Lunari. Her In-game lines, combined with the above, give me this picture of Old Diana; She was an avid learner, bad with people (and her issues with the sun doesn't help in the slightest.) but an honest person. Her transformation showed me that she is also a serious, spiteful person now. However, the change in her personality makes sense, because people who practically raised her almost murdered her over an objective truth. Old Diana was a great character, New Diana got into fights with her peers over Solari theology about the moon (and given that the Solari didn't let her 'shine like the sun' they must have been pathetic arguments at that). However, the scene where she accepts the aspect reveals a lot about new DIana; she wants to be accepted. I never got much of a feel about her personality besides that other then she was someone bad at arguments and still socially awkward. She didn't seem like the murdering type, but the aspect seems to have taken care of that for her. (To be entirely fair, they were going to kill her). It's an interesting turn for someone who still advocates for peace between the sun and moon... and yet, this incident is what made Leona go up the mountain... In any case, throughout her bio, Diana never really had a choice. Her parents brought her their and the moon aspect gave everything else to her, even her most impressive accomplishment is at it's hands. please, feel free to disagree with me on any of this, I want to understand the other side. > So am not gonna sit here and argue with someome who just has an idea of how things are And you are free to do so. as well.

> You misjudged the entire lore if you read any of course I read the whole thing once the red faded from my eyes after reading Leona's and Pantheon's new lore. Diana didn't do anything. Everything in her life was controlled by an alien. Her parents got to targon because the aspect wanted them to. Diana discovered the lunari, not by studying old texts, but because the aspect made it appear for her. She killed the elders because (as it's implied) the aspect influenced her emotions. She is a puppet on the aspects strings. A far cry from a woman who was almost killed because she found the truth, and then turned the tables and became a monster like the ones that almost killed her. > By IT you mean what exactly The Lore. I hate New Targon almost as much as new Leona hates people who disagree with her. Look , I liked Diana, she was one of my best junglers and mid-laners, but after her lore was released I got her off my collection. Same with the rest of the targonians. I'm glad you find some joy in it, i just want to know why.

> but for Diana i can tell you there is nowhere that Directly Says that she is "possessed" by anyone you make it sound like those old Exorcism movies The Aspects of Targon show that they have the power to control their hosts, Diana's lore shows that it made her parents go to targon; > Diana was born as her mother and father sheltered from a storm on the unforgiving slopes of Mount Targon. They had travelled from a distant land, drawn by dreams of a mountain they had never seen and the promise of revelation. Exhaustion and blinding stormwinds overwhelmed them on the eastern slopes of the mountain, and there, beneath cold, pitiless moonlight, Diana came into the world as her mother breathed her last. can take control of her body > Diana reached out, and as her fingers touched the cold steel of the armor, her mind exploded with images of lives she had never lived, memories she had never experienced and sensations she had never known. Scraps of ancient history raged like a blizzard in her mind; secret knowledge she but dimly grasped and innumerable futures scattered like wind-blown dust. > When the visions faded, Diana saw she was now fully clad in the silver warplate, armor that fitted her as though wrought especially for her. Her mind was still afire with newly-acquired knowledge, but much of it remained frustratingly out of reach, like a picture half in shadow, half in light. She was still Diana, but she was also something more, something eternal. Feeling vindicated with this new knowledge, Diana left the mountain cave and made her way unerringly towards the Solari Temple, knowing she had to tell the elders what she had learned. (Clearly the aspect didn't rust her to know how to put the armor on) and is implied to have given this Diana, who hasn't really shown the mentality to kill people, the peak of empotion to kill all the elders. > If that was the case Zoe Leona Taric and Panth would be the same Pantheon is an entity that kicked out Atreus and know lives in his body. He IS possessed. Leona, Zoe, And Taric are debatable, but Leona stopped chasing Diana (her undying, murderous hatred being the thing that let Leona climb up that mountain in the first place.) after the Aspect got inside her head. Zoe, for someone who is a child solider and is separated from her family and friends doesn't seem to have any trauma and killed guardsmen and didn't even go 'opps' Taric is thee only one of the new Targonites I like, and even then i still think he's an asshole. He fought his own countrymen and possibly killed them over a flower. You can make a strong case for them being possessed.

Diana went from a woman driven by hate and becoming no better than the people who did that to her, to a woman who regurlaly has her body stolen and is barely in control of her own actions.... Why did you like it? i get we have a difference of opinions on this, but what about it is that you like?

Skraal would make a better darkin then Vaarus, she has a much better character.

> Murderous Zealot Leona, read her lore > Woman who gets possessed? Diana, read her lore too

So a Murderous Zealot and a Woman who gets possessed regurally by an eldritch entity raise a sociopathic child? I would watch the hell out of this!

RIP Executor

Jhin has four skins, he's perfect now.

Very Carefully? {{sticker:sg-lulu}}