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His arcane sight was likely more useful to the Mageseekers than the Illuminators (or Radiant Ones, as talked about later), and then when he "left" the Mageseekers he was a wanted man.
Also, the Mageseekers might actually be a part of the Illuminators, as we know that Lux is a member of the Radiant Ones, the warrior order *within* the Illuminators.
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https://universe-meeps.leagueoflegends.com/v1/assets/images/ornn-colortext-bg.jpg
"The sky darkened with ash. Columns of smoke rose to clash with the menacing thunderclouds, and bolts of lightning lanced through the haze. The world grew eerily still as the Thousand-Pierced Bear itself took to the battlefield. We could see its telltale shape: spears, swords, tusks, all were stuck in its hide. Lightning followed in its wake.
And it laughed."
-[The Voice From the Hearth](https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/story/ornn-color-story/)
I'm already hyped my dudes
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The Targonian hosts are indeed extremely powerful, but Pantheon and Zoe are the only ones who potentially outclass Jax's experience. Zoe however doesn't care about experience and probably wouldn't even recognize a fight for what it was. Anyway, remember that even when Jax *wasn't* 3,500 years old, he was still fighting the Ascended, which means he's used to fighting beings in the "cosmic magic" weight class. He knows the matchup and he knows what to prepare for.
Furthermore, the excerpt about Diana was most likely a fluke on her part. Jax could take her in a fight, and I think he could give Leona a run for her money as well.
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First of all, thanks for not mentioning Jax's old lore at all. I hate when people do that.
Yeah, I don't think your claim is too difficult to swallow. I can imagine Jax being outclassed in a couple areas, but in a fight with another "mortal type," he'd more than make up for it with his experience. He'd probably lose to Darkin and Ascended, and probably Pantheon too, but he might be a match for the other Targonians.
I wonder if [*None Shall Pass*](https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/story/jax-color-story/) is still technically canon. It's still on the site, but with Jax's skills shown in [*Where Icathia Once Stood*](https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/story/where-icathia-once-stood/), I somehow doubt that Fiora would be that much of a match for him. Then again, we technically don't know if Saijax is Jax. Like, we don't *know*. But he probably is.
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Yeah, this is the position that makes my argument null. But not everyone sees it like this, which is why I posted my comment.
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I'm not exactly sure, and I also wouldn't be surprised if the relationship to Aurelion has been completely thrown out the window tbh
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Kindred is the best champion lore-wise imo
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It's been suggested that the egg thing he took away in his video was some sort of device that could summon Aurelion Sol. Aurelion Sol, if free from Targon, could easily destroy the planet, so there's that.
The World Runes could probably destroy the planet too, but I agree with GreenLore. It's totally possible, and dare I say likely, that Bard did intervene in the Rune Wars, just in a way that we can't see.
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I feel like it's worth mentioning that Zoe is an aspect of change. Her personality is about being a trickster, but her powers are not. This argument is built off the lore and can be accepted or denied how you seem fit.
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At this point let's just agree that we have different opinions on this. We both tried hard to sway each other, but we're both standing firm. I salute you.
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I still think you're underestimating Clan Ferros's technology. Camille is kinda like Iron Man in my mind in terms of durability. We see in the comic that she canonically has her passive shield as well. Urgot is durable too, but like I said he has obvious weak points.
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I thought, and after skimming her bio still think, that Camille is mostly technology, enough so to survive shotgun blasts.
You say that it would be hard for Camille to get to Urgot's weak points, but you seem to forget that she can use her grappling hooks to attack from above.
However fast Urgot can move his legs, I think it's safe to assume that Camille can move faster.
Also, may I direct everyone's attention to [this comic](http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/featured/camille-comic)?
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I think all y'all are underestimating Camillie's durability. She's basically all machine now, and I feel like her tech is probably strong enough to take a shotgun blast, especially with her speed. Maybe even a couple shotgun blasts. Camille's agility and environment maneuverability would let her get into close combat with Urgot easily, and after that Urgot has obvious weak points in his head and chest, and I think Camille could easily play around that.
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I read it as the Frozen Watchers were the first Void dudes to come over, but they failed (for now) and because of that the rest of the Void dudes are just kind of avoiding the Freljord.
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Oh crap, that's a good point.
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To support imgrabe's point, it is canon that, in part due to his extra arms, Willump is [the best hugger in Runeterra. This is indisputable fact.](https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2018/08/9-fun-facts-from-nunus-development/) Even then, it's not hard to say that, in the Freljord's history, there might've been mammals that had six limbs. Maybe six-finned fish evolved, and once they got to land the secondary fins were developed instead of opposable thumbs. I can think of a few ways six limbs could've happened. But that's not the point.
I was going to go on, but I realized that everything I was going to say has probably been said already. The rest is for you to agree or disagree with. That's your choice.
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> [{quoted}](name=WAAARGHbobo,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=icewate2,comment-id=00000000000100030002,timestamp=2017-03-28T20:32:52.646+0000)
>
> Hard to say how [Galio's] magic would interact with [Illaoi]. I tend to think of divine magic and arcane magic different focuses.
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It's been said by Riot that divine magic (Illaoi) doesn't work the same way as arcane magic, so petricite may have a different or even no effect on it. Maybe demon magic is the same?
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If you think being a spirit takes away from one's character, I suggest you read Janna's color story, [Deep Breath](http://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/story/janna-color-story). Heck, I suggest you read it anyway. It's very good.
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I'm going to use the word "theory," but this isn't really a theory, just speculation. A path I think Riot *might* be taking, not necessarily something that I *want* or *don't want* to happen.
We know that Syndra's magic affects her environment. In Ionia we've seen that it corrupts the spiritual energy of the landscape, often times "destroying" or seemingly killing it. The thing is, Ionia is really the only place where magic is ingrained so deep into the environment that it has a noticeable effect on the land, so we don't know how this corruption would affect non-Ionian soil. My theory is that Syndra has the potential ability to create petricite by corrupting her environment in a such a way that it leaves the environment unable to hold magic in any way, thereby creating a nullifying effect. If she *does* have this ability, I doubt she knows how do it currently and I don't know if she'd be able to do it in Ionia.
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I agree with a lot of people her saying that in some cases it's random and in some cases it's genetic. The other thing is that many people can learn how to access magic in a seemingly non-magic way, like Katarina's techniques. The best examples of these instances come from Ionia with Jhin, Yi, and in an extreme case, Irelia. See, Irelia's not exactly magical, but she somehow (even she doesn't know how) gained the ability to access magic via dancing. It may be more abstract, like her spiritual and intimate connection to dancing allows her to, I dunno, talk to the Spirit of Ionia? Anyway, Yi is something similar. He learned how to access magic "non-magically" through physical, mental, and spiritual mastery of the blade. Jhin I'm not sure about. As you've probably guessed it's much easier to do this stuff in Ionia.
Tbh with Katarina it might not actually be magic, it might just be that she's *that good,* but if not all of this might apply.
Also let's talk about Ashe. Ashe isn't magical, but because she had a specific ancestor she has the ability to wield her magic bow.
Finally, hextech. Hextech is becoming more available in the world. A dude figured out that using magical crystals as a medium basically anyone can gain the ability to use magic when it is put into tools. Jhin's gun is like hextech, but more hex and less tech because it's Ionian.
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I thought Mount Targon was just home to a lot of weird gravitational anomalies due to the presence of, well, Targon. The point is, it's not a natural mountain.
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Yeah, I guess you're right. I'm just not sure how Riot is going about the rules surrounding magic in their world, and I'm trying to play it safe. I guess I can say, if petricite isn't as OP as I had assumed then it doesn't need a backstory. If it is, it does.
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I didn't think it really needed a backstory until we found out it can contain World Runes. That's like a naturally occurring nuke shelter that can survive the Tsar Bomba from 30 feet.
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We don't know what magic even is though. Syndra's magic has a weird effect on spiritual energy, but it's possible that *all* magic is spiritual, but it only makes sense to call it that in Ionia because of the properties of the environment. If this is the case, it could be possible that one day Syndra might learn to control *how* she distorts spiritual energy in order to create null-magic properties.
It's also possible that outside-Ionia magic is non-spiritual and Ionia magic is, in which case we could theorize that if Syndra's magic affects spiritual energy in certain ways, it may affect non-spiritual magic in similar, but different, ways. And so we come back to the possibility of petricite creation.
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I'm not saying it was Syndra who made Demacia, I'm saying someone like her might've. I'm wondering if Syndra *would be able to* create petricite if she learned more about her powers.
Also Syndra doesn't drain magic from the land, she just alters it in possibly permanent ways.
Basically I'm just trying to theorize where petricite originally came from. It's such a powerful material that I feel like it didn't just come from nowhere. Well, I guess the World Runes kind of came from nowhere, but you get what I'm saying. Petricite has to have *some* kind of backstory, even if it's just "it was around since the World Runes."
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My thoughts exactly, my dude.
{{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
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It was magical fallout, but not the same kind. Thinking about it, they're very similar tho.
The Shadow Isles were a place of potent magic, much like Ionia is. A person attempted to use this natural magic to bring someone back to life and succeeded, but the now undead person was an abomination that just wanted to die again. The dude who brought her back to life decided to magically commit suicide and bind her soul to his for eternity so that they'd be together in death, but his spell was amplified by the Isles' magical properties and it backfired, creating a zone of un-death.
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Right now it's just my theory, but I'm not sure Ornn, Volibear, and Anivia can even leave the Freljord.
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I feel like it really depends on who is invading whom. Home territory would easily define the outcome of the war. So much so that I think neither region would willingly invade the other.
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Tbh I don't know if he's Kiilash, but I imagined him as Rengar-like and he jumped out of the shadows once in the story, so…
Anyway, I'm also not sure if Vastaya are uniform. Like, even with the horns and three tails I think they might still be the same race. I just chalked it up to Vastayans being weird.
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Oh, sorry. I thought you said something like "Also Zoe seems to be more powerful, she's one of the actual gods of the game."
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Zoe is not a god, she is a mortal holding the power of a mortal who is powerful enough to pretend to be a god. Targonians are not gods. Right now it seems that Bard and Kindred are the most powerful champions, while Nagakabouros is the most powerful mentioned being in lore.
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I know about the Brackern. OG hextech was made specifically from Brackern crystals, yes, but the Piltovans didn't even know what it was they had. They were just like
"Crystals made of magic, neato"
Piltovans *did* end up figuring out how to synthetically make "magic crystals," albeit a *much* weaker version than the genuine artifact. Remember, Piltovan's aren't fully aware of the significance of the crystals they harvested. Modern Piltovan "hextech crystals" are just magical energy in crystal form, because that's what they thought the *original* stuff was.
At some point we're just going to be arguing about the definition of "hextech." If your definition (which may very well be the correct one) says that hextech is specifically made with Brackern crystals, than no, Jhin's gun is not hextech. If your definition says that hextech is at least made from crystals that were made with Brackern crystals in mind, than no, Jhin's gun is not hextech. If your definition says that hextech is any infusion of technology with magic, than yes, Jhin's gun is hextech.
To be clear, my understanding is that Jhin's gun is not powered by a crystal of any kind, but it *was* made with Piltovan hextech in mind. Don't know if I personally think it's hextech or not.
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Okay, you talking about the teleport reminded me of something in-lore that I think is funny. Anyone reading this who doesn't know much about the lore, this is for you.
In [Burning Tides](https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/story/bilgewater-story/), a major Bilgewater story, TF is hired to steal a thing from one of Gangplank's treasure warehouses. I find it hilarious how he does it.
Basically, he ults into the warehouse, grabs the thing he's supposed to steal, and then he just sits down to wait for his ult cooldown to be over so he can ult out of the warehouse.
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Hextech is just the infusion of machines with magic. Piltovan hextech is the go-to, and they're the people who originally had the idea. Piltovan hextech works by having a magical crystal (which can now be synthetically made) and stickng it into a machine.
While Piltovan hextech is definitely more machine than magic, Ionian "hextech" definitely isn't. The land itself in Ionia imbued with magic in a way that the rest of the world simply isn't. Jhin's gun can be considered hextech simply because it's a magically-enhanced machine, but I doubt that's that answer you're looking for. Jhin's gun was likely built with Piltovan hextech in mind, but because it's Ionian it's a much different beast, as shown in that quote you got.
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I don't think she *needs* contact born of desire, it's just that at this point she wants that high-grade suffering enough that there's no point in suffering a little to get it.
Remember, at the beginning of her "life,"
> At first, catching prey was a challenge for the demon. It could move undetected in its shadow form, but to touch a human, the creature needed to manifest as something tangible. It made several attempts to fashion a physical body from its shadow-flesh, but each result was more monstrous than the last, scaring off her prey.
> The demon realized it needed a shape that was pleasing to humans, one that would not only lure them right into its claws, but would offer them ecstasy born of their own desires, so that their pain would be that much sweeter.
Though now that I think of it, it's possible that as a demon grows in power, the *limitations* on their powers *also* increase. Tahm Kench is likely more powerful than Evelynn, and the rules that he must follow to complete a contract are much less cut-and-dry than Evelynn's.
So I guess in conclusion, Evelynn didn't *always* need skin contact born from desire, but I don't know if that's still the case.
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Okay, I'm doing some extra research here at it seems that when people touch her out of desire (not necessarily sexual desire, but yeah) the pleasure she receives from their pain is more satisfying because it was in part self-inflicted. Like how Tahm plays the long con in order to make his prey's misery the strongest.
> The demon realized it needed a shape that was pleasing to humans, one that would not only lure them right into its claws, but would offer them ecstasy born of their own desires, so that their pain would be that much sweeter.
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We don't know how Swain was able to conquer a demon, but it is almost certain that the mechanics of said demon's contract are different than Evelynn's.
If a person physically touched Evelynn for any reason, they'd be signing her contract and she'd have power over them. Evelynn doesn't *need* to lure people in via seduction, it's just that lookin' hot is the most efficient way she's found to get people to touch her.
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Tahm Kench, another demon, has made it clear that time means nothing to him.
To Ekko:
> "Time is but another river - and I care not what water I swim in."
If Tahm can transcend time, it's likely that Eve can too. However, Tahm's powers are likely more mature than Eve's, so whether or not she can transcend time *now* is another question, but her abilities would allow it.
I doubt Braum would ever make a contract with a demon, and if you don't let them in they're powerless (unless they work through a different contract.
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Adding on to Kassadin, she also doesn't know if this dude, if real, is actually still her dad or some Void corrupted monster by now.
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Evelynn's powers aren't based on seduction, they're based on physical contact. In touching her willingly, a victim effectively signs a contract, which I assume makes Evelynn nearly all-powerful when it comes to tracking them down, catching them, or otherwise ending them in the most painful way possible.
The key here is that *they* have to sign the contract, Evelynn can't just force someone into it.
There probably is some mystical way to break a demon's contract, but we don't know what it is right now. Swain himself *did* conquer a demon, but we actually don't know if the demon is still playing him somehow. If the demon is playing him I think it's safe to say that Swain acknowledges this and considers the potential price worth it.
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I agree with Bishop, though I also say that Riot's not going for a whole lot of continuity on this topic. Time stuff is always hard to write, especially in a video game setting where the character can't *actually* turn back time in-game.
About Mundo: Pretty sure Mundo remembering things from previous timelines is something pretty unique to him. We aren't sure *what* Mundo is, and how time travel affects him is another thing entirely.
I think the flashbinder is it's own thang. Just other timey-wimey shenanigans, not necessarily connected to the Z-drive.
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Last we knew Jhin was leaving Ionia. Going to Piltover, if I remember correctly.
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Okay, I don't know much about large cats. I was thinking of those videos of lions torturing gazelle and stuff. Thanks for the clarification, I'll put Nid behind Cho'Gath then. But wait, feeding Cho would speed up the coming of the Void…
Eh, what's one more grave?
*Yorick intensifies*
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Fiora would not want to dance with me due to the political image it would leave on her house. Specifically, it would give the impression that she's open to suitors, so it's possible that she'd maim me in some way to prevent this.
Katarina is an assassin who's given everything to her work. I would not feel safe.
Evelynn is literally a demon of agony who can only touch you with consent, which means if I touch her I die one of the most painful deaths possible. No.
Jayce would be an awkward dancer and would *not* want to dance with me. He gets second place.
Irelia is master dancer who has complete control over her magical abilities, and she also seems like a genuinely nice person. I choose Irelia.
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Tattersall

Level 49 (NA)
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