Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: 14 day ban first offense for 2 games of toxic chat?
Riot are thieves who want to ban people to steal their stuff. Or that is sure how it seems when I go through the 15 or so threads on this exact topic today. So many people who sit on their high horses and act like they've never made a poor decision and done something they regret. In this case what the cat did was say a bad word a few times...a bad word...its a word...it's air. Now words have power, but only when people allow them power. He knows what he said was wrong, he just would like you to understand that it's his first offense and therefore maybe you should use some actual human judgement and not a bot on the situation before banning the cat from something he clearly enjoys for two weeks.
: Uh huh. Could you please point out to me which screenshot you think was edited, and where it purportedly was edited? Because that simply isn't the case. But I'd like to see your reasoning and then correc you.
> [{quoted}](name=Sovereign84,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OgJEEeE1,comment-id=00100000,timestamp=2017-12-29T06:32:43.513+0000) > > Uh huh. Could you please point out to me which screenshot you think was edited, and where it purportedly was edited? > > Because that simply isn't the case. But I'd like to see your reasoning and then correc you. Wow man, I'm with you....It amazes me how people think a 2 week ban for a first time offense makes any sense at all. You know what you said was wrong, you know you should be punished, you just don't agree with the punishment, and rationally, you shouldn't. It was your first offense. Sorry you had to deal with this I can only assure you that in the past year the company has not gotten any better, I have dealt with several moderators and support people today and while one of them actually took the time to listen to what I had to say, the majority of them trolled the way the Cream Reaper Guy did. It's a sad state of affairs and they need some new blood on their support staff...some people who aren't robots and who have the ability to use context and make judgement calls with regards to first time offenders.
: Please no. * I'd like to be able to flex pick for an ally if needed. * I started playing *long* before Mastery was a thing, and don't want to have to grind all the champions I know well enough to play but usually *don't* play (as they're niche picks for me) just to be able to niche pick them. * I've played *League* for long enough that I can pick up pretty much any champion that isn't *highly* complex well enough to perform well on them within 5-10 games, tops -- far before I'd hit most suggested Mastery breakpoints. * I bought the damn champion, so let me play it.
The Djinn, I am quite simply here to tell you that of all the moderators and support staff I've dealt with with my issue in the last few days, you are the one I wish I had gotten because you get it....you are actually trying to make the community better and you aren't a jerk to people like so many of your well meaning but very angry and obnoxious co-workers who seem to troll people with their answers as much as they help. You actually listen to what people have to say before responding and you do so in a way that isn't totally jerk like,even when someone says something like "you must be at this level to play a character in ranked". Seriously friend, as someone who is about to quit this game after playing since season 2 because all of my contact with RIOT support this week has been atrocious, ranging from them clearly just not reading what I'm writing to them and sending me canned messages to actual people who are supposed to help trolling people on these boards, I just gotta say had I come into contact with someone like you first, I probably would feel differently because even when you can't change the outcome of the situation you listen to what the person is saying. This is a rare skill and I feel like someone should give you props for that. This wasn't meant to go on this specific thread but I couldn't find any other thread to get in touch with you to let you know you are doing a great job and that I hope your fellow moderators and support staff or whatever start behaving like an actual human who has empathy the way you do. Kudos and thanks.
: Two Week Ban For First Offense
Please don't let these bandwagon people riot pays to downvote you influence any rational people out there who read this. The fact is the person has been playing for 6 years, has a pristine record, which essentially means they have played hundreds if not thousands of games and not once have they had a warning issued. Look at the sample size here. Now, they are having a bad day....someone trolls them in champ select and proceeds to be a jerk towards them and their friend. In anger they snap back and say a word that riot has restricted. We aren't arguing if what they said was right, they know it wasn't...they've admitted that. What they are wondering, and what I am wondering.... because THIS EXACT THING HAPPENED TO ME UNDER VIRTUALLY THE EXACT SAME CIRCUMSTANCES yesterday is ..... why a two week ban for a LONG TIME player (this matters because they've shown through sample size they are not a problem) player who had a small lapse in judgment. How are you showing any loyalty to this player for jumping them straight to tier three after they have shown your game good behavior for the past 6 years. I do not understand the rationale you downvoters use. I understand you are sticking up for people, the OP ADMITTED they were wrong, they understand what they did and why they shouldn't do it again.... Why do you feel the need to keep this person from playing a game they are clearly passionate about when they haven't been a problem for years and you know they aren't gonna do it again and if they do then just ban them. But a first time 14 penalty for something said in chat is beyond ridiculous and shows absolutely no loyalty towards long standing well behaved players.
JM6219 (NA)
: 14 day ban, first offense
14 day bans for first time offenders is stupid if the offense is just a word. Give them a chat restriction and follow your own policy with that. Moving people straight to tier 3 for having a single lapse in judgement from thousands of games sample size is not only stupid, it's really stupid.
Lumpf (NA)
: 14 - Day Ban: First Offense
I absolutely feel the need to bump this because I was banned yesterday, and while trying to get clarification about why a 6 year old account with 0 infractions was banned before ever getting a warning or a chat ban, virtually every moderator or support staff I had the displeasure of dealing with acted like the exact trolls that they claim others to be. Uncalled for sarcasm, out of line analogies that are so far fetched the only purpose they serve is to fit the narrative. I actually do slightly disagree with some of your core beliefs to the extent that I don't think people should say things that make other people uncomfortable just for the fun of it. I'm just not that type of cat. I prefer harmony. I do however agree with you that ultimately words are just words and that people are the ones who choose to give them power or ignore them all together. That being said I have just dealt with so many jerks on the moderation and support staff to let you know you aren't alone in your beliefs that they are quite sanctimonious assholes by and large, and that when you bring to them a very rational logic based argument that contradicts their stance they act like 5 year olds and say "because I said so" rather than taking the time to have an intelligent conversation.
: > [{quoted}](name=TesticlePrime,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqo2i9l8,comment-id=000600000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-05-26T00:32:54.808+0000) > >I just don't understand the punishment given the context of the situation, the length and clean record of the account, and the acknowledgement of the reporting players that they weren't offended in chat. I don't feel like hate speech or threats should be met with the same punishment as much tamer methods of harassing and insults. This is meant to convey strongly that Riot does not want this in their game, regardless of age, level, money spent, or status. I'd fully expect the same punishment if I opted to start using that language in game as well. I could have left it at just that. That's frankly the most important thing to know regarding the punishment as mentioned in your comment. However, if no one was offended in chat, then you'd have to wonder how you got reported.
> [{quoted}](name=Periscope,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqo2i9l8,comment-id=0006000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-05-26T00:47:57.865+0000) > > I don't feel like hate speech or threats should be met with the same punishment as much tamer methods of harassing and insults. This is meant to convey strongly that Riot does not want this in their game, regardless of age, level, money spent, or status. I'd fully expect the same punishment if I opted to start using that language in game as well. > > I could have left it at just that. That's frankly the most important thing to know regarding the punishment as mentioned in your comment. However, if no one was offended in chat, then you'd have to wonder how you got reported. Yo, you say that as I don't have thousands of games played and one singular one word infraction. And don't go all comparing it to murder cause it's not.... it was one word in a game among thousands, nothing about that isolated incident *should lead a *rational minded person to believe that this would be a regular thing. It's literally happened one time in many thousand....does it make it right? No, but it does make your statement about how I "opted to start using that language in game" horseshit because clearly I don't speak like that in game. It was one time among many thousand. I guess where we have a failure to communicate is once again, like the rest of your staff, you continue to chastise me on something I know is wrong, rather than look at it from a more objective spot and see that this was one instance in THOUSANDS and doesn't warrant a ban ESPECIALLY given that the two people who reported me said in chat they ACKNOWLEDGED I was talking about a cigarette. So if the two "offended" parties who reported me acknowledged in chat that they knew what I was talking about, clearly they weren't offended and were simply trolling. I get y'all policies and to a lesser degree I understand why you have to be so jerk-like about getting your message across sometimes, but it just feels like once again you're still commenting on the initial action, which was wrong, and not the severely too harsh punishment on a FIRST TIME OFFENDER. I'm not the only person who feels this way and you know it because you're a moderator, there is another post literally about how RIOT shouldn't ban first time offenders who have accounts that are several years old because those people have shown they are not a problem to the community. Why should one isolated incident of ONE WORD, We're not talking assault or murder or drunk driving no matter how much your zealots want to compare it to that, it's not that...its a word, a wrong hateful hurtful word, but it was one word over an otherwise spotless 6 years, and rather than take the 5 years 11 months and 29-30 days that great behavior was shown, you choose to harp on the .000000000000000000000001 of the time when one word was said in chat. As a rational person can you honestly tell me you don't see a problem with that?
: > [{quoted}](name=TesticlePrime,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqo2i9l8,comment-id=000600000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-05-26T00:32:54.808+0000) > >I just don't understand the punishment given the context of the situation, the length and clean record of the account, and the acknowledgement of the reporting players that they weren't offended in chat. I don't feel like hate speech or threats should be met with the same punishment as much tamer methods of harassing and insults. This is meant to convey strongly that Riot does not want this in their game, regardless of age, level, money spent, or status. I'd fully expect the same punishment if I opted to start using that language in game as well. I could have left it at just that. That's frankly the most important thing to know regarding the punishment as mentioned in your comment. However, if no one was offended in chat, then you'd have to wonder how you got reported.
> [{quoted}](name=Periscope,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqo2i9l8,comment-id=0006000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-05-26T00:47:57.865+0000) > > I don't feel like hate speech or threats should be met with the same punishment as much tamer methods of harassing and insults. This is meant to convey strongly that Riot does not want this in their game, regardless of age, level, money spent, or status. I'd fully expect the same punishment if I opted to start using that language in game as well. > > I could have left it at just that. That's frankly the most important thing to know regarding the punishment as mentioned in your comment. However, if no one was offended in chat, then you'd have to wonder how you got reported. Because the duo who trolled the game reported me? Do you not think they have a report button too?
: > [{quoted}](name=TesticlePrime,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqo2i9l8,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-26T00:07:30.561+0000) > > Yeah this is true.... I figured I'd update you. They finally responded a few hours ago with a very canned response that I was expecting. I then gave them a very long response that was very insightful, respectful, and acknowledging my wrongdoing while asking them not to ROB me for my first infraction in 6 years. > > [removed by moderation] We do not allow content asking for Rioters to be fired, nor insulting others on the boards. If you have any questions about this moderation action, don't hesitate to reach out to the Boards Moderation Team via: * The [**NA Boards Discord**](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/7rtKBZLi-boards-moderation-discord-verification) * The [**Discuss the Boards**](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation) sub-board Regarding your issue; hate speech isn't allowed in League. There's simply no place for it. There are extremely rare cases where such punishments were reverted, and not in the instances you've mentioned. A long explanation isn't going to change the fact that it will net a 2-week penalty. I'm glad you understand it's a serious infraction and inappropriate in League, but that's not going to change Support's response about this.
> [{quoted}](name=Periscope,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqo2i9l8,comment-id=00060000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-26T00:15:42.949+0000) > > We do not allow content asking for Rioters to be fired, nor insulting others on the boards. > > If you have any questions about this moderation action, don't hesitate to reach out to the Boards Moderation Team via: > > * The [**NA Boards Discord**](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/7rtKBZLi-boards-moderation-discord-verification) > * The [**Discuss the Boards**](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation) sub-board > > Regarding your issue; hate speech isn't allowed in League. There's simply no place for it. There are extremely rare cases where such punishments were reverted, and not in the instances you've mentioned. A long explanation isn't going to change the fact that it will net a 2-week penalty. I'm glad you understand it's a serious infraction and inappropriate in League, but that's not going to change Support's response about this. And friend, I don't necessarily want it to change their "stance" but to get a non canned response when I took the time to simply ask why a ban and not a chat ban for a long term account on first offense. They completely ignored the question and simply went on about how it was wrong to say that which, had they actually taken the time to read what I wrote, they would see clear as crystal much as you did, because you do read (THANK YOU!!!) that I do understand it is wrong, I just don't understand the punishment given the context of the situation, the length and clean record of the account, and the acknowledgement of the reporting players that they weren't offended in chat. None of these things were even mentioned by this person who is actually getting paid to help people with issues. Instead they skip over everything, including the part where I apologize and admit wrongdoing, to tell me that it's wrong. I mean, would you not be frustrated with this level of customer service? I feel like Karen right now this person was so bad.
: > [{quoted}](name=TesticlePrime,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqo2i9l8,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-26T00:07:30.561+0000) > > Yeah this is true.... I figured I'd update you. They finally responded a few hours ago with a very canned response that I was expecting. I then gave them a very long response that was very insightful, respectful, and acknowledging my wrongdoing while asking them not to ROB me for my first infraction in 6 years. > > [removed by moderation] We do not allow content asking for Rioters to be fired, nor insulting others on the boards. If you have any questions about this moderation action, don't hesitate to reach out to the Boards Moderation Team via: * The [**NA Boards Discord**](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/7rtKBZLi-boards-moderation-discord-verification) * The [**Discuss the Boards**](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation) sub-board Regarding your issue; hate speech isn't allowed in League. There's simply no place for it. There are extremely rare cases where such punishments were reverted, and not in the instances you've mentioned. A long explanation isn't going to change the fact that it will net a 2-week penalty. I'm glad you understand it's a serious infraction and inappropriate in League, but that's not going to change Support's response about this.
> [{quoted}](name=Periscope,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqo2i9l8,comment-id=00060000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-26T00:15:42.949+0000) > > We do not allow content asking for Rioters to be fired, nor insulting others on the boards. > > If you have any questions about this moderation action, don't hesitate to reach out to the Boards Moderation Team via: > > * The [**NA Boards Discord**](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/7rtKBZLi-boards-moderation-discord-verification) > * The [**Discuss the Boards**](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation) sub-board > > Regarding your issue; hate speech isn't allowed in League. There's simply no place for it. There are extremely rare cases where such punishments were reverted, and not in the instances you've mentioned. A long explanation isn't going to change the fact that it will net a 2-week penalty. I'm glad you understand it's a serious infraction and inappropriate in League, but that's not going to change Support's response about this. Does it change the fact you have people you're actually paying to be support staff who aren't even reading the things sent to them, and this can be verified by their responses? I figured if anything you would like it to be pointed out that your support staff aren't doing their job. I will refrain from mentioning them by name again, but they aren't doing their job so let your boss know lol. I just, like other people, want to be heard sometimes. It's frustrating to have a valid opinion like, Chat restriction instead of ban for first time offenders, which I think isn't a completely unreasonable thing. I'm not asking you guys to change your rules, but to simply when you have people who are your connection to the community, at least make it people who aren't blatantly disregarding their own jobs by sending canned responses to people with legitimate questions. Thank you.
: If you actually read their message, then you would have seen that they did not say it was acceptable. They said that it should be a 2 week chat ban instead of game ban. This is not a warning, it is targetting what the specific issue was in the first place. If they do it again then it is not just a chat issue, but attitude issue that needs fixed, so 14 day ban would be fine. Then if they do it again perma ban because they are purposefully not wanting to learn. Its actually not THAT bad of an idea especially if paired with something like low priority queue that says "hateful and derogitory and extremely offencive chat is not tolerated." Can be a 5 or 10 min wait time each game with that message popping up for 2 weeks.
> [{quoted}](name=Silly Neeko,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=MeHmEMqp,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-03T01:22:35.150+0000) > > If you actually read their message, then you would have seen that they did not say it was acceptable. They said that it should be a 2 week chat ban instead of game ban. > > This is not a warning, it is targetting what the specific issue was in the first place. If they do it again then it is not just a chat issue, but attitude issue that needs fixed, so 14 day ban would be fine. Then if they do it again perma ban because they are purposefully not wanting to learn. > > Its actually not THAT bad of an idea especially if paired with something like low priority queue that says "hateful and derogitory and extremely offencive chat is not tolerated." Can be a 5 or 10 min wait time each game with that message popping up for 2 weeks. Thank you I have been trying to get this message across to RIOT today and all I get are canned responses and support staff who much like Chermorg, don't actually read what people are writing before throwing their two cents in.
: Hey "example for the community". Did you not just tell someone in a different thread off about their abusive chat here? If that chat with a Riot support person is real they said it was only a few instances of hate speech. You im sure have had your moments of being quite rude in game as well, just avoided saying anything that is considered "hate speech". Riot does not WANT to lose a player that could have been playing for years and did 1 slip up, which is why its only a 14 day ban not perma ban. Im all for being blunt but this message of yours seems a bit too much like you are wanting to be a jerk to them. I agree hate speech has no place in the chat, but obviously this was a first time offence, and they were nice about explaining it to the Riot person as well as on here.
> [{quoted}](name=Silly Neeko,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=MeHmEMqp,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-07-03T00:54:04.007+0000) > > Hey "example for the community". Did you not just tell someone in a different thread off about their abusive chat here? > > If that chat with a Riot support person is real they said it was only a few instances of hate speech. You im sure have had your moments of being quite rude in game as well, just avoided saying anything that is considered "hate speech". > > Riot does not WANT to lose a player that could have been playing for years and did 1 slip up, which is why its only a 14 day ban not perma ban. > > Im all for being blunt but this message of yours seems a bit too much like you are wanting to be a jerk to them. I agree hate speech has no place in the chat, but obviously this was a first time offence, and they were nice about explaining it to the Riot person as well as on here. I love you for saying this. This Cher person is all over these forums being the biggest piece of sh** out of anyone. Even moreso than the people they are trying to sit on their high horse above. They are stooping to the level of the people they are trying to "educate" or whatever but they aren't witty or charming or charismatic, they are just a plain ol fashioned dick. And I'm sure it's cause they are jaded or whatever from having to read a lot of dumb sh** every day, but that is absolutely no reason to be an asshole to everyone you come in contact with who doesn't agree with your opinion. They are a hypocrite too, because they are guilty of the attitude and generalized negative behavior they think they are trying to point out in other people. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR POINTING THIS OUT.... MORE PEOPLE NEED TO. Riot's support staff are canned response zombies or trolls themselves who try to be smartasses to anyone who THEY PERCEIVE doesn't have a valid argument.
zPOOPz (NA)
: You have to consider 2 things. Right now is weekend so it is understandable for support to be a little slower on weekends (same as most other company) and this is Memorial weekend with most people are off on Monday and tend to take vacation days to combo with the holiday. It's annoying to have to wait on support ticket, but you need to be patience. That or try live chat.
> [{quoted}](name=zPOOPz,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqo2i9l8,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2019-05-25T23:16:50.388+0000) > > You have to consider 2 things. Right now is weekend so it is understandable for support to be a little slower on weekends (same as most other company) and this is Memorial weekend with most people are off on Monday and tend to take vacation days to combo with the holiday. It's annoying to have to wait on support ticket, but you need to be patience. That or try live chat. Yeah this is true.... I figured I'd update you. They finally responded a few hours ago with a very canned response that I was expecting. I then gave them a very long response that was very insightful, respectful, and acknowledging my wrongdoing while asking them not to ROB me for my first infraction in 6 years. [removed by moderation] Here's the thing, if you punish a troll what are they gonna do?? They are gonna start a new account and make new players have to deal with their BS....this isn't good for RIOT, you don't want your new playerbase, that is already having to overcome a huge learning curve and generally somewhat toxic community to have to deal with smurf trolls who literally had to create a new account to play the game. This puts RIOT in a precarious spot that I don't envy and quite frankly there isn't a super solid way of getting rid of trolls because like Tyler1 they will just make accounts and cost RIOT infinitely more resources on weeding them out constantly, and because they are a troll they are enjoying this entire process anyway. So I get it, it's tricky. But when you give a harsh penalty and ROB a player that - minus small lapses in judgement that we all, as humans suffer from - is a decent person and someone who wants to make the community better and this is indicative by their clean past for 6 years. When you give an unfair penalty to someone like this, a person to whom intent, context, and principles matter.... They will quit your game and you will lose that revenue and those are not the people who you want to quit. So I wish they would take a little more time to put people into those support positions who actually took their jobs seriously and took what players were saying seriously if it were posed in a respectful, polite, and remorseful manner. But this person just, canned response after canned response, I will actually post the e-mail conversation if they don't get back in touch with me soon just to show everyone what horsesh*t this particular support person was, and how very little they actually payed attention to what I was saying.
: Riot needs a new (not fully automated) ban/behavior system.
I guess I'm still sort of lost as to why so many are turning it into a debate that I've already acknowledged doesn't need to happen because I agree that the word is unacceptable. People would rather deflect and make it about the word than actually look at RIOTS extremely flawed and crappy player behavior system. Someone earlier in this post said they'd need 10000 people, that is ludacris.... give me a team of 15-20 dedicated people....pay them right and they will clean up the community. The thing is, RIOT does not want the community cleaned up, not of trolls at least, because they are aware of just how many trolls make up the playerbase and their game would be ruined without them. So it does put RIOT in a tricky spot and as a business I can't help but understand why they don't give a damn about trolls, but as a long time player who just received his first ban after being trolled repeatedly and verbally abused IN GAME when I chose to say something post game to the no doubt 15 year old little sh**s who literally are sadists and get off hurting other people.... but I'm the bad guy for calling these little psychopaths psychopaths and saying the community would be better without them?? Why not get rid of the psychopaths then you get rid of all the rage they induce, seems like a much easier option than getting rid of all the people who hate trolls. I imagine there are far more people who hate trolls than there are trolls, maybe not in these forums a lot of you people have this GOD COMPLEX going on. So if the majority of your playerbase hates trolls, and the majority of "flamers" say they are flaming because of trolls. Why not just get rid of the trolls I do not understand it. People say "its too hard" to differentiate real trolling from just having a bad game, but it's not...if it's close or in question you don't penalize it. But when a jackass admits in chat that he and his duo banned 2 champs that your team had selected to pick in champ select and says "what's the matter you guys are one tricks".... I mean you can't see how that person is the real problem and not the person who claps back telling them they are an idiot for sabotaging their own team in a team game? I guess I will never get some of your blind loyalty to riot when the system is so obviously flawed, and almost nobody even denies that the system is flawed they just say "its too hard to fix".... riot made like over 600 million dollars last year if you don't think they have the money to hire a 10-20 person team dedicated to actually getting rid of the problems you are sadly mistaken. Now I'm getting off topic, but it's hard not to rage or get annoyed with people who show such a low level of teamwork in a team based game. Why ban 2 champs that our team selected in champ select and then proceed spending the game telling our mid (not me) how bad he is because they banned his main champ intentionally. I stick up for my friend and I get a ban for trying to tell these two what they can do with it. I can't help but believe people reading this understand the frustration, if you don't...you are probably like the 2 guys I'm referring to, and you are a sadist who enjoys hurting others and a psychopath who has no remorse for their actions, studies have been done that link psychopathy and sadism to the way these people act. So to clarify, Riot says it's ok to be a general asshole, troll your team in every phase of the game, tell your team how shitty they are when they play poorly, act like a fucking 7 year old child throughout the game, make the game a generally unpleasant experience for all involved....but God forbid someone try to put these trolls in their place (which I know doesn't work....they feed off it....my mistake). I guess I just feel like we are penalizing the righteous who want the community to be rid of all these trolls, but we aren't actually getting rid of the trolls. And nobody sees a problem with that?
: If you want to say a zero-tolerance phrase to your friend, you can easily just do that in PMs, discord, voice chat, or even skype (do people still use skype? idk). I feel like this is just an argument in bad faith. Zero tolerance is zero tolerance, if you want to say a zt phrase that badly just don't type it ingame.
> [{quoted}](name=Jhins Girlfriend,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqo2i9l8,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-05-25T18:13:01.671+0000) > > If you want to say a zero-tolerance phrase to your friend, you can easily just do that in PMs, discord, voice chat, or even skype (do people still use skype? idk). I feel like this is just an argument in bad faith. Zero tolerance is zero tolerance, if you want to say a zt phrase that badly just don't type it ingame. Why are you still trying to debate whether the word is ok. I have acknowledged that it isn't. I've also said that it will not be said again, by me at least. That should be good enough for riot. Permaban the account if the word is said again...by all means I'd be fine with that. The point of this post which seems to be getting lost is that context is not being taken into consideration before handing out 2 week punishments to accounts on their first infraction and then not responding to the support ticket in a reasonable timeframe, I put the ticket in last night and have still yet to hear even a "fuck you" reply from riot. So if they are gonna hand out bans using an automated system, that they do have the power to overturn if they deem nothing wrong was done, and yet they still haven't taken the time to review my case. THAT...is what pisses me off and what the point of this post was. Not to debate whether or not what was said was right, it was wrong plain and simple.
: > [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqo2i9l8,comment-id=0003000100000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-05-25T08:14:01.630+0000) > > I'm sorry, but this comment amounts to "I want Riot to fail because they punished me", which I don't think is what you're trying to say. > > You admit you were wrong, you admit there was no reason to do it, and you're **still** trying to diminish it and say that it's "not that bad". And no, you don't hear the "f word" on TV. It's actually **illegal** for network TV to utter that word outside minimal middle-of-night hours - and results in a fine if it happens. Cable TV is different, but still most networks self-censor that word. > > You may feel that one bad word shouldn't undo 5 good years of behavior. Riot classifies this as a transgression that no matter how much good behavior, it doesn't override. You are free to disagree with this classification. But that is merely your opinion - it is not fact, and it does not mean Riot must change their policy. If you run a business, video game, or something, you can choose to offer leniency for someone using offensive language based on their past. That is your choice. You are also free to choose to stop supporting Riot if you think leniency should be offered for this. > > I doubt it will affect Riot's bottom line because the vast majority of society thinks it's utterly unacceptable. Again. Button that has a 1% chance of killing 100 people. Society doesn't think anyone should ever push that button. You can disagree. Maybe someone didn't push the button for 50 years then only pushed it once. Society doesn't care. Society doesn't think it should've ever been pushed. that button example is still so far fetched and extreme...I'm not diminishing the effects of a word, I've stated clearly not only my credentials with regards to that but my actual humane understanding that I shouldn't say the word, but yes I am saying that it is still just a word. I would say that about any word because like any word, it does no actual harm unless someone CHOOSES to let it harm them. So yes, I do think context matters and in this case of someone who knows it was wrong, said they are sorry, and clearly won't do it again....what is the need for the ban other than to potentially piss the player off. It does not seem like a good business decision if they actually looked at it CASE BY CASE, which is the premise of this entire post, not whether the F word is acceptable...its not, we've established that. What isn't acceptable is them having a policy that doesn't take context into account.
> [{quoted}](name=TesticlePrime,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqo2i9l8,comment-id=00030001000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-25T08:30:24.662+0000) > > that button example is still so far fetched and extreme...I'm not diminishing the effects of a word, I've stated clearly not only my credentials with regards to that but my actual humane understanding that I shouldn't say the word, but yes I am saying that it is still just a word. I would say that about any word because like any word, it does no actual harm unless someone CHOOSES to let it harm them. So yes, I do think context matters and in this case of someone who knows it was wrong, said they are sorry, and clearly won't do it again....what is the need for the ban other than to potentially piss the player off. It does not seem like a good business decision if they actually looked at it CASE BY CASE, which is the premise of this entire post, not whether the F word is acceptable...its not, we've established that. What isn't acceptable is them having a policy that doesn't take context into account. sorry I went all shrink on you right there but it's true, words have no power in the real world, we have the power to let words affect us or not.... this is truth, most people (myself included) are just not strong enough to not let words bother them
rujitra (NA)
: I'm sorry, but this comment amounts to "I want Riot to fail because they punished me", which I don't think is what you're trying to say. You admit you were wrong, you admit there was no reason to do it, and you're **still** trying to diminish it and say that it's "not that bad". And no, you don't hear the "f word" on TV. It's actually **illegal** for network TV to utter that word outside minimal middle-of-night hours - and results in a fine if it happens. Cable TV is different, but still most networks self-censor that word. You may feel that one bad word shouldn't undo 5 good years of behavior. Riot classifies this as a transgression that no matter how much good behavior, it doesn't override. You are free to disagree with this classification. But that is merely your opinion - it is not fact, and it does not mean Riot must change their policy. If you run a business, video game, or something, you can choose to offer leniency for someone using offensive language based on their past. That is your choice. You are also free to choose to stop supporting Riot if you think leniency should be offered for this. I doubt it will affect Riot's bottom line because the vast majority of society thinks it's utterly unacceptable. Again. Button that has a 1% chance of killing 100 people. Society doesn't think anyone should ever push that button. You can disagree. Maybe someone didn't push the button for 50 years then only pushed it once. Society doesn't care. Society doesn't think it should've ever been pushed.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqo2i9l8,comment-id=0003000100000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-05-25T08:14:01.630+0000) > > I'm sorry, but this comment amounts to "I want Riot to fail because they punished me", which I don't think is what you're trying to say. > > You admit you were wrong, you admit there was no reason to do it, and you're **still** trying to diminish it and say that it's "not that bad". And no, you don't hear the "f word" on TV. It's actually **illegal** for network TV to utter that word outside minimal middle-of-night hours - and results in a fine if it happens. Cable TV is different, but still most networks self-censor that word. > > You may feel that one bad word shouldn't undo 5 good years of behavior. Riot classifies this as a transgression that no matter how much good behavior, it doesn't override. You are free to disagree with this classification. But that is merely your opinion - it is not fact, and it does not mean Riot must change their policy. If you run a business, video game, or something, you can choose to offer leniency for someone using offensive language based on their past. That is your choice. You are also free to choose to stop supporting Riot if you think leniency should be offered for this. > > I doubt it will affect Riot's bottom line because the vast majority of society thinks it's utterly unacceptable. Again. Button that has a 1% chance of killing 100 people. Society doesn't think anyone should ever push that button. You can disagree. Maybe someone didn't push the button for 50 years then only pushed it once. Society doesn't care. Society doesn't think it should've ever been pushed. that button example is still so far fetched and extreme...I'm not diminishing the effects of a word, I've stated clearly not only my credentials with regards to that but my actual humane understanding that I shouldn't say the word, but yes I am saying that it is still just a word. I would say that about any word because like any word, it does no actual harm unless someone CHOOSES to let it harm them. So yes, I do think context matters and in this case of someone who knows it was wrong, said they are sorry, and clearly won't do it again....what is the need for the ban other than to potentially piss the player off. It does not seem like a good business decision if they actually looked at it CASE BY CASE, which is the premise of this entire post, not whether the F word is acceptable...its not, we've established that. What isn't acceptable is them having a policy that doesn't take context into account.
: > [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqo2i9l8,comment-id=0003000100000000000100010000,timestamp=2019-05-25T08:10:01.683+0000) > > That extremely rarely happens, and "mandatory minimum" sentencing exists in many places for many crimes. I'm just saying your examples were a bit extreme though I get the "no tolerance" sort of thing you're implying, though again, my opinion, it just seems fundamentally wrong to have a ZERO tolerance mandatory punishment thing when context isn't taken into account. I guess we just agree to disagree. I don't see how anyone can get behind punishing someone for saying a single word and context doesn't count. You're using other real life good examples like drunk driving but friend... it was a word, a hurtful word that RIOT should not allow. On this we agree, but it's still just a word. It isn't a "crime"....you seem to think people are fragile enough that it could cause someone to hurt themselves even if the word is used in a completely different context, and if that is genuinely the case and people are THAT fragile, where a word used in a context that doesn't refer to you causes you to hurt yourself... I mean this person in question should seek some help long before a single word in a non hurtful context from a stranger on the internet actually causes them to harm themselves. I get what you're saying and I think you know I do.... The possibility exists. But much like your analogies where you're comparing saying a single word to drunk driving and killing someone, I think it's a bit extreme and very far fetched. I don't think riot should take that word off their filter or anything I'm all for it never showing up in league again and people who say it hatefully or have a history of hate speech should get in trouble when they say it. But a dude who admits lapse in judgement and mutters it post game directly talking about a cigarette and says he won't say it again or ban him.... I mean it just doesn't seem like it would be that big a deal for RITO to say, ok dude, we checked chat and you all said it was about a cig, no malice, don't do it again or we'll ban you. That's how a human would handle the situation where a bot wouldn't. Context....intent....while you seem to go on like they don't matter, they do.... they do matter in the real world because intent is what makes a person a person. Some people are hateful bad people, that is their intent and they should be judged on that, some people have no bad intent and do stupid things....while it doesn't excuse what they did, it absolutely should be taken into consideration, and you seem like a highly intelligent person I'm really sort of surprised that you think so little of the intent behind actions but only look to the actions themselves. Intent SHOULD mean something my friend.
> [{quoted}](name=TesticlePrime,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqo2i9l8,comment-id=00030001000000000001000100000000,timestamp=2019-05-25T08:25:26.186+0000) > > I'm just saying your examples were a bit extreme though I get the "no tolerance" sort of thing you're implying, though again, my opinion, it just seems fundamentally wrong to have a ZERO tolerance mandatory punishment thing when context isn't taken into account. I guess we just agree to disagree. I don't see how anyone can get behind punishing someone for saying a single word and context doesn't count. You're using other real life good examples like drunk driving but friend... it was a word, a hurtful word that RIOT should not allow. On this we agree, but it's still just a word. It isn't a "crime"....you seem to think people are fragile enough that it could cause someone to hurt themselves even if the word is used in a completely different context, and if that is genuinely the case and people are THAT fragile, where a word used in a context that doesn't refer to you causes you to hurt yourself... I mean this person in question should seek some help long before a single word in a non hurtful context from a stranger on the internet actually causes them to harm themselves. I get what you're saying and I think you know I do.... The possibility exists. But much like your analogies where you're comparing saying a single word to drunk driving and killing someone, I think it's a bit extreme and very far fetched. I don't think riot should take that word off their filter or anything I'm all for it never showing up in league again and people who say it hatefully or have a history of hate speech should get in trouble when they say it. But a dude who admits lapse in judgement and mutters it post game directly talking about a cigarette and says he won't say it again or ban him.... I mean it just doesn't seem like it would be that big a deal for RITO to say, ok dude, we checked chat and you all said it was about a cig, no malice, don't do it again or we'll ban you. That's how a human would handle the situation where a bot wouldn't. Context....intent....while you seem to go on like they don't matter, they do.... they do matter in the real world because intent is what makes a person a person. Some people are hateful bad people, that is their intent and they should be judged on that, some people have no bad intent and do stupid things....while it doesn't excuse what they did, it absolutely should be taken into consideration, and you seem like a highly intelligent person I'm really sort of surprised that you think so little of the intent behind actions but only look to the actions themselves. Intent SHOULD mean something my friend. and reduced sentences for good behavior or lesser plea deals for people who have clean pasts are VERY common, they are not UNCOMMON at all.
rujitra (NA)
: That extremely rarely happens, and "mandatory minimum" sentencing exists in many places for many crimes.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqo2i9l8,comment-id=0003000100000000000100010000,timestamp=2019-05-25T08:10:01.683+0000) > > That extremely rarely happens, and "mandatory minimum" sentencing exists in many places for many crimes. I'm just saying your examples were a bit extreme though I get the "no tolerance" sort of thing you're implying, though again, my opinion, it just seems fundamentally wrong to have a ZERO tolerance mandatory punishment thing when context isn't taken into account. I guess we just agree to disagree. I don't see how anyone can get behind punishing someone for saying a single word and context doesn't count. You're using other real life good examples like drunk driving but friend... it was a word, a hurtful word that RIOT should not allow. On this we agree, but it's still just a word. It isn't a "crime"....you seem to think people are fragile enough that it could cause someone to hurt themselves even if the word is used in a completely different context, and if that is genuinely the case and people are THAT fragile, where a word used in a context that doesn't refer to you causes you to hurt yourself... I mean this person in question should seek some help long before a single word in a non hurtful context from a stranger on the internet actually causes them to harm themselves. I get what you're saying and I think you know I do.... The possibility exists. But much like your analogies where you're comparing saying a single word to drunk driving and killing someone, I think it's a bit extreme and very far fetched. I don't think riot should take that word off their filter or anything I'm all for it never showing up in league again and people who say it hatefully or have a history of hate speech should get in trouble when they say it. But a dude who admits lapse in judgement and mutters it post game directly talking about a cigarette and says he won't say it again or ban him.... I mean it just doesn't seem like it would be that big a deal for RITO to say, ok dude, we checked chat and you all said it was about a cig, no malice, don't do it again or we'll ban you. That's how a human would handle the situation where a bot wouldn't. Context....intent....while you seem to go on like they don't matter, they do.... they do matter in the real world because intent is what makes a person a person. Some people are hateful bad people, that is their intent and they should be judged on that, some people have no bad intent and do stupid things....while it doesn't excuse what they did, it absolutely should be taken into consideration, and you seem like a highly intelligent person I'm really sort of surprised that you think so little of the intent behind actions but only look to the actions themselves. Intent SHOULD mean something my friend.
Kei143 (NA)
: You know, if you aren't using the text in a form of harassment/insult, chances are people won't report you. No report = no review = no punishment
> [{quoted}](name=Kei143,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqo2i9l8,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-05-25T08:06:00.233+0000) > > You know, if you aren't using the text in a form of harassment/insult, chances are people won't report you. > > No report = no review = no punishment Unless they are the duo bot trolls who literally just trolled the game in question, which would be EASY to see if they had a real person looking at it. Thank you for your comment that is exactly my point. Get some real eyes on the situation.
rujitra (NA)
: When it is touched by a real person, they will not remove it. The real people at Riot have determined, for the reasons I've stated, that there is no acceptable use of that word in League of Legends, in any context, whatsoever, in a matchmade game with random teammates. You are still claiming "they were okay with it and knew it wasn't intended to be hurtful". But you didn't know they'd be okay with it before you did it. You chose to do it before knowing that. Riot is of the opinion that, knowing there is a chance it is not taken the way you intend, you should not ever have chosen to use the word. Likewise, the opinion of society is that knowing there's a chance 100 people die means you don't push that button - no matter how small the chance, or how great the "reward". I think you're focusing too much on it being automated - did you know that all rocket launches are completely automated for the last seconds to even more than a minute of launch? For the last 59 seconds of any SpaceX Falcon launch, the controllers have two options - let the rocket launch itself, or terminate the launch sequence. When in the air, rockets are controlled all by computers. Yet we trust them to carry millions, and billions of dollars of equipment to space instead of having a "real human" at the wheel. Something being automated does not mean it is bad. Automated systems are programmed by real humans who determine what the system will be based on. In this case, the exact rule was determined by a group of real humans who determined that the button should not be pushed. Just as society throws in jail people who didn't *intend* to hurt anyone, but still drove while intoxicated. They didn't intend to harm anyone, and maybe they didn't. But the chance (albeit low, someone driving at a 0.08% BAC and who is driving a couple hundred feet likely isn't getting in a wreck in that timeframe) of the harm, as well as the severity of the harm that would occur should harm occur, has led society to determine that it is unacceptable, no matter the intent. You may have intended to get your drunk friend home so he can throw up and pass out. You may have only intended to drive a couple hundred yards down the road to prove to your friends you "weren't too drunk to drive". You didn't intend to harm anyone, and you didn't, but the chances of harm and severity of harm mean you shouldn't have done it - period.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqo2i9l8,comment-id=00030001000000000001,timestamp=2019-05-25T07:39:41.733+0000) > > When it is touched by a real person, they will not remove it. The real people at Riot have determined, for the reasons I've stated, that there is no acceptable use of that word in League of Legends, in any context, whatsoever, in a matchmade game with random teammates. > > You are still claiming "they were okay with it and knew it wasn't intended to be hurtful". But you didn't know they'd be okay with it before you did it. You chose to do it before knowing that. Riot is of the opinion that, knowing there is a chance it is not taken the way you intend, you should not ever have chosen to use the word. Likewise, the opinion of society is that knowing there's a chance 100 people die means you don't push that button - no matter how small the chance, or how great the "reward". > > I think you're focusing too much on it being automated - did you know that all rocket launches are completely automated for the last seconds to even more than a minute of launch? For the last 59 seconds of any SpaceX Falcon launch, the controllers have two options - let the rocket launch itself, or terminate the launch sequence. When in the air, rockets are controlled all by computers. Yet we trust them to carry millions, and billions of dollars of equipment to space instead of having a "real human" at the wheel. Something being automated does not mean it is bad. Automated systems are programmed by real humans who determine what the system will be based on. In this case, the exact rule was determined by a group of real humans who determined that the button should not be pushed. > > Just as society throws in jail people who didn't *intend* to hurt anyone, but still drove while intoxicated. They didn't intend to harm anyone, and maybe they didn't. But the chance (albeit low, someone driving at a 0.08% BAC and who is driving a couple hundred feet likely isn't getting in a wreck in that timeframe) of the harm, as well as the severity of the harm that would occur should harm occur, has led society to determine that it is unacceptable, no matter the intent. You may have intended to get your drunk friend home so he can throw up and pass out. You may have only intended to drive a couple hundred yards down the road to prove to your friends you "weren't too drunk to drive". You didn't intend to harm anyone, and you didn't, but the chances of harm and severity of harm mean you shouldn't have done it - period. I guess what really bothers me about your "arguments" is that you keep using these real world examples, but what about the real world example where the judge says, oh wow you have a really clean record....here's probation instead of jailtime because you have such a good past....that is also how the world works while we are on the subject of how the criminal law enforcement system works.
rujitra (NA)
: When it is touched by a real person, they will not remove it. The real people at Riot have determined, for the reasons I've stated, that there is no acceptable use of that word in League of Legends, in any context, whatsoever, in a matchmade game with random teammates. You are still claiming "they were okay with it and knew it wasn't intended to be hurtful". But you didn't know they'd be okay with it before you did it. You chose to do it before knowing that. Riot is of the opinion that, knowing there is a chance it is not taken the way you intend, you should not ever have chosen to use the word. Likewise, the opinion of society is that knowing there's a chance 100 people die means you don't push that button - no matter how small the chance, or how great the "reward". I think you're focusing too much on it being automated - did you know that all rocket launches are completely automated for the last seconds to even more than a minute of launch? For the last 59 seconds of any SpaceX Falcon launch, the controllers have two options - let the rocket launch itself, or terminate the launch sequence. When in the air, rockets are controlled all by computers. Yet we trust them to carry millions, and billions of dollars of equipment to space instead of having a "real human" at the wheel. Something being automated does not mean it is bad. Automated systems are programmed by real humans who determine what the system will be based on. In this case, the exact rule was determined by a group of real humans who determined that the button should not be pushed. Just as society throws in jail people who didn't *intend* to hurt anyone, but still drove while intoxicated. They didn't intend to harm anyone, and maybe they didn't. But the chance (albeit low, someone driving at a 0.08% BAC and who is driving a couple hundred feet likely isn't getting in a wreck in that timeframe) of the harm, as well as the severity of the harm that would occur should harm occur, has led society to determine that it is unacceptable, no matter the intent. You may have intended to get your drunk friend home so he can throw up and pass out. You may have only intended to drive a couple hundred yards down the road to prove to your friends you "weren't too drunk to drive". You didn't intend to harm anyone, and you didn't, but the chances of harm and severity of harm mean you shouldn't have done it - period.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqo2i9l8,comment-id=00030001000000000001,timestamp=2019-05-25T07:39:41.733+0000) > > When it is touched by a real person, they will not remove it. The real people at Riot have determined, for the reasons I've stated, that there is no acceptable use of that word in League of Legends, in any context, whatsoever, in a matchmade game with random teammates. > > You are still claiming "they were okay with it and knew it wasn't intended to be hurtful". But you didn't know they'd be okay with it before you did it. You chose to do it before knowing that. Riot is of the opinion that, knowing there is a chance it is not taken the way you intend, you should not ever have chosen to use the word. Likewise, the opinion of society is that knowing there's a chance 100 people die means you don't push that button - no matter how small the chance, or how great the "reward". > > I think you're focusing too much on it being automated - did you know that all rocket launches are completely automated for the last seconds to even more than a minute of launch? For the last 59 seconds of any SpaceX Falcon launch, the controllers have two options - let the rocket launch itself, or terminate the launch sequence. When in the air, rockets are controlled all by computers. Yet we trust them to carry millions, and billions of dollars of equipment to space instead of having a "real human" at the wheel. Something being automated does not mean it is bad. Automated systems are programmed by real humans who determine what the system will be based on. In this case, the exact rule was determined by a group of real humans who determined that the button should not be pushed. > > Just as society throws in jail people who didn't *intend* to hurt anyone, but still drove while intoxicated. They didn't intend to harm anyone, and maybe they didn't. But the chance (albeit low, someone driving at a 0.08% BAC and who is driving a couple hundred feet likely isn't getting in a wreck in that timeframe) of the harm, as well as the severity of the harm that would occur should harm occur, has led society to determine that it is unacceptable, no matter the intent. You may have intended to get your drunk friend home so he can throw up and pass out. You may have only intended to drive a couple hundred yards down the road to prove to your friends you "weren't too drunk to drive". You didn't intend to harm anyone, and you didn't, but the chances of harm and severity of harm mean you shouldn't have done it - period. I agree, I don't think one time I've said I should've said it, quite the opposite. But if you think saying the "f" word actually using context that isn't hateful is akin to homicide, I mean my friend I think that is a bit of a stretch. If a real person looks at the chat it will be easy to determine who the trolls of the game were, and that the post game comment made, while completely unacceptable, does not warrant the punishment given. Even in our judicial system, prior behavior IS taken into account because it is relevant. Does it take away what was done or make it ok? No it doesn't. But the things you're comparing it to are all far more severe than simply saying a word - again - I know words hurt - I'm not trying to say what I said was right by any means, but you are stretching it a little by comparing it to drunk driving. It was one word....a word you can hear on TV when you turn it on virtually any channel. Just as you said 5 years of good behavior doesn't make it right, I'll use the flip side.... one bad word shouldn't undo 5 years of good behavior. I get it man you work for the man you gotta enforce their rules, but a 14 day penalty to someone who is showing remorse and understands what they did and has no previous warnings just seems a bit harsh in my opinion it is what it is, I hope they do it to more people and it does hurt their bottom line because that's the only way they will learn.
rujitra (NA)
: I think we should continue this in one thread (I'll reply to whichever comment I get from you first) so as to not have two simultaneous discussions, and I think I covered most of this in my other reply. I will only add that a lot of good history does not mitigate some bad actions. While it can for minor offenses (ex: good history and defensive driving class getting a speeding ticket completely removed from your record), it does not for other offenses (such as DUI, assault, etc). You may never have assaulted someone your whole life. You may never have driven drunk your whole life. You may not have intended to hurt them. You may not have intended to get in a car accident (and maybe you didn't, you were just pulled over). But the possible outcome of the actions is so bad that your good history does not matter. Now, it's possible that having *bad* history may *escalate* the punishment you get - but that is a different story.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqo2i9l8,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-25T07:32:49.023+0000) > > I think we should continue this in one thread (I'll reply to whichever comment I get from you first) so as to not have two simultaneous discussions, and I think I covered most of this in my other reply. > > I will only add that a lot of good history does not mitigate some bad actions. While it can for minor offenses (ex: good history and defensive driving class getting a speeding ticket completely removed from your record), it does not for other offenses (such as DUI, assault, etc). You may never have assaulted someone your whole life. You may never have driven drunk your whole life. You may not have intended to hurt them. You may not have intended to get in a car accident (and maybe you didn't, you were just pulled over). But the possible outcome of the actions is so bad that your good history does not matter. > > Now, it's possible that having *bad* history may *escalate* the punishment you get - but that is a different story. Also everything in question was said post game.
rujitra (NA)
: I am not intending to be an asshole. I again will state I don't think you had any ill will. I do not think you are a bad person. But if me being an asshole is what it takes to get you (or especially anyone else who comes and reads this thread trying to justify to themselves their own use of the word) to rethink your mindset, then so be it. It is nothing personal towards you. Crass, and blunt, sure. But not personal. I'd also like to point out you don't know who reported you. It may very well have been that *multiple* people did report you for using the word - even if they played it off as if they were okay with it in chat (to try to maintain team integrity and teamwork). Lastly, the escalation to a 2 week ban is because of a couple reasons: * Riot does not believe that the ignorance of the gravity of the word is an acceptable part of society * Riot does not believe that a chat restriction is a severe enough punishment for the potential severity of outcomes that you ignored in using the word * Riot does not believe that a chat restriction is a severe enough punishment to get the point across * Riot believes that an instantaneous 2 week ban will cause more people to rethink their actions And probably a few others. The first one is arguable - you could argue Riot is attempting to be a "social justice warrior" by attempting to say what is or is not an appropriate attitude to have in society. I will go back to the button - would you press that button? Society thinks it's incompatible with society for someone to press such a button - and this is a similar situation.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqo2i9l8,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2019-05-25T07:26:43.229+0000) > > I am not intending to be an asshole. I again will state I don't think you had any ill will. I do not think you are a bad person. > > But if me being an asshole is what it takes to get you (or especially anyone else who comes and reads this thread trying to justify to themselves their own use of the word) to rethink your mindset, then so be it. It is nothing personal towards you. Crass, and blunt, sure. But not personal. > > I'd also like to point out you don't know who reported you. It may very well have been that *multiple* people did report you for using the word - even if they played it off as if they were okay with it in chat (to try to maintain team integrity and teamwork). > > Lastly, the escalation to a 2 week ban is because of a couple reasons: > > * Riot does not believe that the ignorance of the gravity of the word is an acceptable part of society > * Riot does not believe that a chat restriction is a severe enough punishment for the potential severity of outcomes that you ignored in using the word > * Riot does not believe that a chat restriction is a severe enough punishment to get the point across > * Riot believes that an instantaneous 2 week ban will cause more people to rethink their actions > > And probably a few others. The first one is arguable - you could argue Riot is attempting to be a "social justice warrior" by attempting to say what is or is not an appropriate attitude to have in society. I will go back to the button - would you press that button? Society thinks it's incompatible with society for someone to press such a button - and this is a similar situation. I am 100% I know who reported me it was two kids who were a duo and both their names started with Darth _____ ....they were the trolls who would be banned if RIOT actually had a real person watching player behavior. These two banned the person who was playing mids champ in champ select, same with top (they were duo bot) ....they flame everyone all game and are generally the trolls everyone in this community hopes to avoid. They acknowledged in chat IMMEDATELY below where I said it that they knew I was talking about a cig....does it justify me saying it, absolutely not, you're right, I'm wrong, there's nothing I can do to take it back. I assure you that despite me saying it I do understand the gravity, which makes it worse, yes I know I already feel guilty. But STILL...0 infractions 6 year old account and first offense is a 14 day ban when context was clearly not bad... I get it, I'm in the wrong, but that doesn't change the fact that it's not an entirely invalid opinion for RIOT to get some real actual people dedicated to this cause. And to your last point, how can RIOT feel that way if it was a chat bot that handed out the punishment? it hasn't been touched by a real person yet....and that is my issue.
rujitra (NA)
: I feel truly grateful that your friends have never experienced the hate of that word. Seriously, I do. It'd be great if **nobody** had to. Unfortunately, thousands of people per year, even in America, experience physical, verbal, and emotional abuse surrounding their sexuality. Your friends being lucky doesn't change the reality of thousands of others who have every right to be able to enjoy League as you do. The point I'm trying to get across is that it is not your **intent** that matters - context is certainly important in determining that (ex: "I'm going to go smoke a %%%" is not *intended* to directly cause harm to someone) - but your **actions** that matter. As an example, if you are wildly firing a gun off, inside your house, and a bullet leaves through a window and hits a jogger passing by, you'll be arrested (and likely thrown in jail for a while). You didn't **intend** to hurt anyone, and you were really doing something harmless (you didn't *know* that it would hurt them). But wait - you're going to say that "firing a gun" is not a harmless action. Likewise, using the "f word" is not a harmless action. The concept of intent is great and all. But it doesn't mean jack shit when you have a dead body sitting in front of you that you "intended" to fake shooting the gun. Sometimes, the result of an action is **so horribly bad** that such action is (almost) universally prohibited, no matter what the intent is. There is no reason you must "shoot a gun" - and if you happen to do it and not cause harm, great. But the potential for harm is so great, and the harm that may be caused is so severe that it is illogical for one to be able to determine in a situation whether it is acceptable or not. The **sole** exception to this is when you are with and talking to a group of people you know **well enough** to be able to determine that they are not negatively affected by the word. In fact, you will not be punished for using the word in a premade (unless one of them decides to report you, but even then, they can usually rescind their report and Riot reverse the punishment). However, in a game where you are not with a full premade, you do not know the people you are playing with anywhere near well enough to determine that word is not okay. Did you cause someone injury? Possibly, possibly not. Should the **chance** of doing so been enough to stop you from saying the word? **Yes**. As an analogy, let's say you had a button that you could push. There's a 1% chance you win 1,000,000 dollars, a 98% chance you win $1, and a 1% chance that 100 people die. No person in their right mind would push that button and be responsible for the death of 100 people. Yes, it's an extreme example. But in this case, let's just say for the sake of argument that there's a 10% chance you don't negatively affect anyone and it's accepted well (let's say no other player in the game has personally or had a loved one or close friend experience abuse with the word amnd they all use it themselves and joke around), an 85% chance that you don't negatively affect anyone, but it was unnecessary and doesn't cause any *good* benefits, and a 5% chance that you cause emotional harm to someone. That 10% chance that you using it causes a good reaction is worth more than the 5% chance that you cause harm to someone? Especially when you don't *have* to use the word ("cig" is just as short to type)? Just to get across the gravity of the situation, you don't know what others in League are dealing with in their lives. Someone may have gotten home from school/work/etc. and their parents yelled at them for something completely arbitrary (ex: a bad grade, staying up too late, going out late, eating the wrong food, fuck knows what parents yell about). The parent ended that scolding by making an offhanded comment about the teenager's/young adult's sexuality. The person retreated to their room and opens up League, already feeling depressed (how the fuck does their sexuality have anything to do with their grades). Hell, even parents who are accepting may mistakenly make a comment that negatively affect someone ("maybe if you weren't [sexual act] all the time you would've gotten better grades") - doesn't use the "f word", but still brings up the topic. They get into your League match. You use that word. That sends them over the edge - the place people should be able to come to enjoy, and they **still* can't escape it. Many teenagers and young adults are driven to do harmful things because they feel they cannot escape the torture otherwise. They resort to self-harm, either medicinal or physical. There are people who have permanent scars on their body from cuts/injuries they gave themselves because they couldn't escape the torture. That may not be a direct result of your action, and sure, that wouldn't have been your intent (I hope), but it is the **result**. All from one unnecessary word. As one final example unrelated to this word, let's say you're in a business meeting and you *intend* to present facts/statistics that show the business is well and the people you're presenting to should invest. But, they leave that meeting thinking your company is shit and they don't want to invest. Is it their fault because they didn't understand your figures, or is it your fault for either not using the right figures or not explaining them well? Your intent does not matter - it's how the message is received and the result of it. **** Look, I don't think you're a bad person. I think that you are a very fortunate soul that neither yourself or someone you know well has been affected in these ways by their loved ones, friends, classmates, or others to have to get to the point of self-harm, suicide, or other extremely dangerous things. I think that it is amazing that you are willing to support people who are not straight, and I think it's great that your friends have been able to "reclaim" that word for themselves. I think you likely grew up in an environment where you did not *have* to deal with this sort of thing, and in an environment where "being edgy" is okay. And let's be honest - who didn't go through middle school where everyone was trying to be "edgy" and break rules? However, I think you still fail to realize that sometimes, it's not your intent that matters, it's the outcome. And in this case, the risk of a bad outcome, however small, is so severe in intensity that it completely outweighs any "benefit" of using the unnecessary word.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqo2i9l8,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-05-25T07:14:57.440+0000) > > I feel truly grateful that your friends have never experienced the hate of that word. Seriously, I do. It'd be great if **nobody** had to. > > Unfortunately, thousands of people per year, even in America, experience physical, verbal, and emotional abuse surrounding their sexuality. Your friends being lucky doesn't change the reality of thousands of others who have every right to be able to enjoy League as you do. > > The point I'm trying to get across is that it is not your **intent** that matters - context is certainly important in determining that (ex: "I'm going to go smoke a %%%" is not *intended* to directly cause harm to someone) - but your **actions** that matter. As an example, if you are wildly firing a gun off, inside your house, and a bullet leaves through a window and hits a jogger passing by, you'll be arrested (and likely thrown in jail for a while). You didn't **intend** to hurt anyone, and you were really doing something harmless (you didn't *know* that it would hurt them). > > But wait - you're going to say that "firing a gun" is not a harmless action. Likewise, using the "f word" is not a harmless action. > > The concept of intent is great and all. But it doesn't mean jack shit when you have a dead body sitting in front of you that you "intended" to fake shooting the gun. Sometimes, the result of an action is **so horribly bad** that such action is (almost) universally prohibited, no matter what the intent is. There is no reason you must "shoot a gun" - and if you happen to do it and not cause harm, great. But the potential for harm is so great, and the harm that may be caused is so severe that it is illogical for one to be able to determine in a situation whether it is acceptable or not. > > The **sole** exception to this is when you are with and talking to a group of people you know **well enough** to be able to determine that they are not negatively affected by the word. In fact, you will not be punished for using the word in a premade (unless one of them decides to report you, but even then, they can usually rescind their report and Riot reverse the punishment). However, in a game where you are not with a full premade, you do not know the people you are playing with anywhere near well enough to determine that word is not okay. Did you cause someone injury? Possibly, possibly not. Should the **chance** of doing so been enough to stop you from saying the word? **Yes**. > > As an analogy, let's say you had a button that you could push. There's a 1% chance you win 1,000,000 dollars, a 98% chance you win $1, and a 1% chance that 100 people die. No person in their right mind would push that button and be responsible for the death of 100 people. Yes, it's an extreme example. But in this case, let's just say for the sake of argument that there's a 10% chance you don't negatively affect anyone and it's accepted well (let's say no other player in the game has personally or had a loved one or close friend experience abuse with the word amnd they all use it themselves and joke around), an 85% chance that you don't negatively affect anyone, but it was unnecessary and doesn't cause any *good* benefits, and a 5% chance that you cause emotional harm to someone. That 10% chance that you using it causes a good reaction is worth more than the 5% chance that you cause harm to someone? Especially when you don't *have* to use the word ("cig" is just as short to type)? > > Just to get across the gravity of the situation, you don't know what others in League are dealing with in their lives. Someone may have gotten home from school/work/etc. and their parents yelled at them for something completely arbitrary (ex: a bad grade, staying up too late, going out late, eating the wrong food, fuck knows what parents yell about). The parent ended that scolding by making an offhanded comment about the teenager's/young adult's sexuality. The person retreated to their room and opens up League, already feeling depressed (how the fuck does their sexuality have anything to do with their grades). Hell, even parents who are accepting may mistakenly make a comment that negatively affect someone ("maybe if you weren't [sexual act] all the time you would've gotten better grades") - doesn't use the "f word", but still brings up the topic. > > They get into your League match. You use that word. That sends them over the edge - the place people should be able to come to enjoy, and they **still* can't escape it. Many teenagers and young adults are driven to do harmful things because they feel they cannot escape the torture otherwise. They resort to self-harm, either medicinal or physical. There are people who have permanent scars on their body from cuts/injuries they gave themselves because they couldn't escape the torture. That may not be a direct result of your action, and sure, that wouldn't have been your intent (I hope), but it is the **result**. All from one unnecessary word. > > As one final example unrelated to this word, let's say you're in a business meeting and you *intend* to present facts/statistics that show the business is well and the people you're presenting to should invest. But, they leave that meeting thinking your company is shit and they don't want to invest. Is it their fault because they didn't understand your figures, or is it your fault for either not using the right figures or not explaining them well? Your intent does not matter - it's how the message is received and the result of it. > > **** > Look, I don't think you're a bad person. I think that you are a very fortunate soul that neither yourself or someone you know well has been affected in these ways by their loved ones, friends, classmates, or others to have to get to the point of self-harm, suicide, or other extremely dangerous things. I think that it is amazing that you are willing to support people who are not straight, and I think it's great that your friends have been able to "reclaim" that word for themselves. I think you likely grew up in an environment where you did not *have* to deal with this sort of thing, and in an environment where "being edgy" is okay. And let's be honest - who didn't go through middle school where everyone was trying to be "edgy" and break rules? > > However, I think you still fail to realize that sometimes, it's not your intent that matters, it's the outcome. And in this case, the risk of a bad outcome, however small, is so severe in intensity that it completely outweighs any "benefit" of using the unnecessary word. Well said I could not agree more which I why I've said I regret my word choice, and I think you're absolutely right I don't think it's that my friends haven't been harassed and had to deal with things, they have... some of them have had to deal with quite a bit, I think they wear that word like armor so nobody can use it to hurt them, and in that way they've done exactly what you say when you say they've taken it back. But you're right there is no reason to say the word ever... it was a complete and stupid lapse in judgement. I've literally never had so much as a warning on this account and I guess I just wish they would take that into account, along with the context....which goes to my initial point that they need real people at least helping with this. Thank you for being an ally!
rujitra (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=TesticlePrime,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqo2i9l8,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-05-25T05:46:04.524+0000) > > It seems as if Riot does not take context into account at all when issuing bans This is correct and intentional. >and I have a hard time thinking any truly rational minded person who enjoys this game doesn't have a problem with this. You having a hard time "thinking" it does not make you correct. >Should someone get banned for saying they are "stepping outside to smoke a %%%"? Yes, because there's no reason to say that in game at all, and that word is not used in North American English to mean cigarette anymore. > I mean this is completely normal language in much of the world No, it's not. >and doesn't have a single bit of rage, homophobic intent or anything negative at all associated with it other than giving oneself lung cancer possibly??? The sole meaning of the word in its modern use is a homophobic word. Just as the "n word" arose from the term "negro", which was a non-racist term to describe someone of African descent in official documents (similarly, whites were called white in official documents). However, the word became racist over time due to it only being used in that manner. > So if someone goes in chat and types, "I'm gonna step outside after this game to smoke a %%%, I hope I don't get cancer" They are gonna get a 14 day ban because RIOT doesn't take context into account at all with regards to "%%%" or "cancer"? Likely, yes. Because again, that word is not used in North America to mean cigarette **at all**, and is only very infrequently used in the rest of the world. The only people who utilize that word regularly are those that do so because they **know** it will cause offense/discomfort to others and/or turn heads - they're trying to be "edgelords". The word "cig" is much more common as a short word for cigarette and carries no negative connotation. >There's just something fundamentally wrong about this.... You are entitled to that opinion. The majority of the world disagrees with your opinion. >I mean, shouldn't they at least have an actual human review these things rather than just banning people for keywords without a lick of context, or even worse, when context is given and it isn't bad context. Any player can ask for human review of their or any other player's behavior, either with/without a ban, by submitting a support ticket. They will not discuss other player's behavior but will take appropriate **human reviewed** action - including removing punishments if deemed in error. The vast majority of the world (and League's playerbase) disagrees with your opinion that that word should be tolerated when used as shorthand for cigarette. > It's the same as if someone's friend showed up to the game and they said "what's up %%%%%?" ....you know, the way people talk in much of the world to THEIR FRIENDS. Again, the only people that talk this way to their friends are those that grew up doing so as "edgelords" - because they knew the term was controversial and took pride in "breaking the rules". It is not Riot's problem to fix people who are knowingly and willingly attempting to be "edgelords". > Now, before all the social justice warriors pop up out of the woodwork If you consider it being a "social justice warrior" to like, be respectful and not take an easy step (replace three letters with three other letters) that requires literally no effort on your part to avoid offense to someone else, fine. Most of the world would call the "social justice warrior" a decent person, and call you a selfish jerk. >I'm not advocating people say the "f" word or the "n" word You are literally advocating for people to be allowed to say that in game. >I understand both have hateful connotations when used in a certain context and I don't think anyone should ever use them in a context that demeans someone's race or sexual orientation. The word itself demeans someone's race or sexual orientation. That is the sole meaning of the word in common lexicon nowadays. >Those bans, I understand. But when someone says one of RIOTS "no no" words, and they say it using context that clearly shows no malice hate or ill will.... why does that constitute a ban? Thoughts?? Thanks. Because, as I've explained above, there is no reason to use the word, the word can be easily replaced with other words that are just as short, and Riot is not going to cater to "edgelords" at the expense of those players who may be suffering from depression, anxiety, or feel abused when they see that word. Please keep in mind that many people in this world are beaten while being called the "f word" or even still the "n word" - especially teenagers by their parents who fail to accept that homosexuality exists, is not a choice, and is not abnormal. People **die** because of their sexuality, and when they are being beaten to death (or having other hate crimes committed against them), the word is commonly uttered. You are suggesting that people who wish to play League should be forced to remember the time their dad beat them with a belt until they were bruised, just because you should have some "right" to say that word (when there's no reason to). League is a game of enjoyment, and you're saying that multiple percent of the population should not be permitted to enjoy it, just so you can use a word that there is no reason to use. I am not sure if you truly understand the gravity of this. There are those who commit suicide because they are bullied in school or even by their own family for their sexuality (using this word, quite frequently). Those that live many times will have lifelong PTSD from such a situation - and PTSD treatment tends to be based mainly on removal of the trauma first, then treating memories. You cannot remove the trauma of that word with those people unless you remove them from society - which is not possible. It is incredibly selfish, insensitive, and rude of someone to say "my right to use an unnecessary word is more important than your right to be a member of society". I know this may be hard to imagine for you, or other players. If you have not experienced the immense trauma an unsupportive or abusive family, friend group, school, etc. can cause to a young person who is not purely "straight", then you are very lucky, and you need to remember that. Homosexuality (or abuse that is led to from "coming out" or being "out") is one of the highest causes of teenage suicide in the world. The use of that word in League does not help that, and in fact, may contribute to suicide in vulnerable people. And again, **there's literally no fucking reason you have to use that word**. So, Riot's decided to not permit that word to be used. You want to be an edgelord? Go do so in your room please, not on the internet, and not where other people may be negatively affected by you.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqo2i9l8,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-05-25T06:38:33.171+0000) > > This is correct and intentional. > > You having a hard time "thinking" it does not make you correct. > > Yes, because there's no reason to say that in game at all, and that word is not used in North American English to mean cigarette anymore. > > No, it's not. > > The sole meaning of the word in its modern use is a homophobic word. Just as the "n word" arose from the term "negro", which was a non-racist term to describe someone of African descent in official documents (similarly, whites were called white in official documents). However, the word became racist over time due to it only being used in that manner. > > Likely, yes. Because again, that word is not used in North America to mean cigarette **at all**, and is only very infrequently used in the rest of the world. The only people who utilize that word regularly are those that do so because they **know** it will cause offense/discomfort to others and/or turn heads - they're trying to be "edgelords". The word "cig" is much more common as a short word for cigarette and carries no negative connotation. > > You are entitled to that opinion. The majority of the world disagrees with your opinion. > > Any player can ask for human review of their or any other player's behavior, either with/without a ban, by submitting a support ticket. They will not discuss other player's behavior but will take appropriate **human reviewed** action - including removing punishments if deemed in error. The vast majority of the world (and League's playerbase) disagrees with your opinion that that word should be tolerated when used as shorthand for cigarette. > > Again, the only people that talk this way to their friends are those that grew up doing so as "edgelords" - because they knew the term was controversial and took pride in "breaking the rules". It is not Riot's problem to fix people who are knowingly and willingly attempting to be "edgelords". > > If you consider it being a "social justice warrior" to like, be respectful and not take an easy step (replace three letters with three other letters) that requires literally no effort on your part to avoid offense to someone else, fine. Most of the world would call the "social justice warrior" a decent person, and call you a selfish jerk. > > You are literally advocating for people to be allowed to say that in game. > > The word itself demeans someone's race or sexual orientation. That is the sole meaning of the word in common lexicon nowadays. > > Because, as I've explained above, there is no reason to use the word, the word can be easily replaced with other words that are just as short, and Riot is not going to cater to "edgelords" at the expense of those players who may be suffering from depression, anxiety, or feel abused when they see that word. > > Please keep in mind that many people in this world are beaten while being called the "f word" or even still the "n word" - especially teenagers by their parents who fail to accept that homosexuality exists, is not a choice, and is not abnormal. People **die** because of their sexuality, and when they are being beaten to death (or having other hate crimes committed against them), the word is commonly uttered. You are suggesting that people who wish to play League should be forced to remember the time their dad beat them with a belt until they were bruised, just because you should have some "right" to say that word (when there's no reason to). League is a game of enjoyment, and you're saying that multiple percent of the population should not be permitted to enjoy it, just so you can use a word that there is no reason to use. > > I am not sure if you truly understand the gravity of this. There are those who commit suicide because they are bullied in school or even by their own family for their sexuality (using this word, quite frequently). Those that live many times will have lifelong PTSD from such a situation - and PTSD treatment tends to be based mainly on removal of the trauma first, then treating memories. You cannot remove the trauma of that word with those people unless you remove them from society - which is not possible. It is incredibly selfish, insensitive, and rude of someone to say "my right to use an unnecessary word is more important than your right to be a member of society". > > I know this may be hard to imagine for you, or other players. If you have not experienced the immense trauma an unsupportive or abusive family, friend group, school, etc. can cause to a young person who is not purely "straight", then you are very lucky, and you need to remember that. Homosexuality (or abuse that is led to from "coming out" or being "out") is one of the highest causes of teenage suicide in the world. The use of that word in League does not help that, and in fact, may contribute to suicide in vulnerable people. > > And again, **there's literally no fucking reason you have to use that word**. So, Riot's decided to not permit that word to be used. You want to be an edgelord? Go do so in your room please, not on the internet, and not where other people may be negatively affected by you. Like...rereading this I know you're coming from such a good place, I can truly tell that, so I just don't understand why you have to be such an asshole about it considering I haven't shown the least bit of hostility, I've shown remorse and regret for my word choice, so I guess I just don't understand your rudeness. I have a degree in behavioral sciences thank you, I'm perfectly aware of the words and the gravity of them, I've admitted multiple times it was a poor choice in words but that there was clearly no malice or ill will towards the LGBT community or really anyone in particular. Should I have chosen another word, absolutely, you are right about that I am completely in the wrong. I just don't think a 14 day ban for a first time infraction on a 5-6 year old account is warranted when the word, though chosen in terribly poor taste, was used in a completely non threatening non hateful manner AS ACKNOWLEDGED in chat by the reporting player.
zPOOPz (NA)
: Yes, I know f-- also can be use to refer to cigarette as a sort of slang. And I do acknowledge that usage in other part of the world (much like the word c--- (female thing) can technically not be as offensive to many people in certain part of the world and you know, no report = no problem). However, that word does not find very common usage in the NA regions to mean cig and to be honest, "smoke a f--" can be misinterpreted very badly over here what with "smoke" can be slang for kill/murder ("going to smoke someone") and you know what f-- is. THAT misinterpretation or misunderstanding can be extremely offensive to someone.
> [{quoted}](name=zPOOPz,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqo2i9l8,comment-id=000200010001,timestamp=2019-05-25T06:59:37.579+0000) > > Yes, I know f-- also can be use to refer to cigarette as a sort of slang. And I do acknowledge that usage in other part of the world (much like the word c--- (female thing) can technically not be as offensive to many people in certain part of the world and you know, no report = no problem). > > However, that word does not find very common usage in the NA regions to mean cig and to be honest, "smoke a f--" can be misinterpreted very badly over here what with "smoke" can be slang for kill/murder ("going to smoke someone") and you know what f-- is. I understand what the word means for sure, and judging from what has been said in this post I think it's more hurtful towards some members of the LGBT community than the LGBT people I spend a fair bit of time with who say that word semi-frequently when talking about themselves or their friends. Now I always know it's like the N word, where I'm not gay so I can't say it...so like I get that. That's why I don't really say either word in my normal day to day it was just a stupid moment and I wish they would look at the context before having their bot hand out a ban.
zPOOPz (NA)
: There are many reasons for people to report you. You may had said some other things in chat other than the cig bit that people find offensive (just giving examples...). You may had make a lot of game play mistakes people do not like so they reported you. You may had poke or bm the enemies in allchat so they reported you. The enemies may have reported you out of spite because they lost. Any one of the 9 players that game could have reported you just because they felt like it for no reason at all. Now, it is unfortunate that 1) you got reported for clearly using f-- to mean cigarette and 2) the IFS picked it up as ZT (i'm going to assume you did not have any other kind of toxicity in that chat log for the sake of this discussion). However, as I've said, it is not a normal part of the language in the NA regions so the cases where you genuinely say f-- to mean cig (and not trying to use cig as an excuse to use the ZT f--) are quite rare enough to not be a problem that Rito needs to change the IFS for. For these rare cases, you're just have to deal with support ticket or live chat (might be the better option if you do not wish to wait on the support ticket). The problem with not fully automated system is the sheer amount of reports per day to handle. Even with a semi-automated system to say handle ZT cases, that is still A LOT of reports a lot of personnel will have to go through that may not even be that much better than the 2 safe guards I mentioned above. I did mentioned old Tribunal. Before you suggest giving players the ability to judge cases so Rito doesn't have to hire too many more employees, old Tribunal failed miserably due to low participants and high amount of reported cases. Between the time of the old Tribunal and now, there has not been much of any change to give us (or rather RIto) faith that resurrecting Tribunal would be any different than the old failed Tribunal system. That on top of the fact that the IFS is much more efficient and faster than any semi-automatic or full human review would have. For outlier cases such as yours, you'll have to rely on the 2 safeguards to help you. Now since you sort of make your chat log a point of discussion, if you want, you can post your full, unedited chat log (yes, I understand the other people chats are not included) and we can discuss any other part beside that f--/cig thing that may had trip the IFS to understand the automated system better. Since the primary purpose of your thread is to discuss the system itself, feel free to not post your chat log.
> [{quoted}](name=zPOOPz,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqo2i9l8,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-05-25T06:48:40.153+0000) > > There are many reasons for people to report you. You may had said some other things in chat other than the cig bit that people find offensive (just giving examples...). You may had make a lot of game play mistakes people do not like so they reported you. You may had poke or bm the enemies in allchat so they reported you. The enemies may have reported you out of spite because they lost. Any one of the 9 players that game could have reported you just because they felt like it for no reason at all. > > Now, it is unfortunate that 1) you got reported for clearly using f-- to mean cigarette and 2) the IFS picked it up as ZT (i'm going to assume you did not have any other kind of toxicity in that chat log for the sake of this discussion). However, as I've said, it is not a normal part of the language in the NA regions so the cases where you genuinely say f-- to mean cig (and not trying to use cig as an excuse to use the ZT f--) are quite rare enough to not be a problem that Rito needs to change the IFS for. For these rare cases, you're just have to deal with support ticket or live chat (might be the better option if you do not wish to wait on the support ticket). > > The problem with not fully automated system is the sheer amount of reports per day to handle. Even with a semi-automated system to say handle ZT cases, that is still A LOT of reports a lot of personnel will have to go through that may not even be that much better than the 2 safe guards I mentioned above. I did mentioned old Tribunal. Before you suggest giving players the ability to judge cases so Rito doesn't have to hire too many more employees, old Tribunal failed miserably due to low participants and high amount of reported cases. Between the time of the old Tribunal and now, there has not been much of any change to give us (or rather RIto) faith that resurrecting Tribunal would be any different than the old failed Tribunal system. That on top of the fact that the IFS is much more efficient and faster than any semi-automatic or full human review would have. For outlier cases such as yours, you'll have to rely on the 2 safeguards to help you. > > Now since you sort of make your chat log a point of discussion, if you want, you can post your full, unedited chat log (yes, I understand the other people chats are not included) and we can discuss any other part beside that f--/cig thing that may had trip the IFS to understand the automated system better. Since the primary purpose of your thread is to discuss the system itself, feel free to not post your chat log. Thank you for this response. Don't you think RIOT makes enough money to where they should have a small staff of people dedicated to something so important as improving community behavior. I would think with the popularity of this game they are making enough money to hire a few people to go through game logs and footage to get rid of trolls and flamers and differentiate hate speech from just, a stupid lapse in judgement when choosing a word. I guess I just feel like with all the money I've spent on skins over the years and how many complaints I know they get all the time, that they would make player behavior a slightly larger priority. I have sent my ticket in I am confident it will be resolved I just don't like the time I have to wait because their automated system flagged me, not to mention I've read cases where RIOT just says "we don't give af enjoy your ban" to feel overly optimistic.
: Once again, there is no expression on my end of the statement. Take it as you will in those terms, not my concern. I have no personal opinion of you as a person in general. That should be clear. As for the contexts, you don't need a reason, you just need to understand that the basic language for humans is that it's arbitrary and productive when it comes to the basic communication between us people. Especially when it comes to entertainment. People come to this game to escape and enjoy some competitive play. But when it comes to communication, people expect the basic communication of the game with the intent to make the game productive, creative, systematic to the game. Not the ignorance of other players using slang to be "edgy" or "cool" or thinking people will simply fold to their standards or knowledge of the words. People get called different things every day with ill intent, ignorance, or simply out of hate. We need to understand that slang for a cigarette isn't a common tongue for all people of all culture. It's about respecting it. I don't use it because most people would take that slang inappropriately, I understand that slang isn't common for all people. Which is why context should not be needed, just because you feel like you need to express your variation of slangs that little to no people may or may not understand. So when you say something for an example as your slang used for cigarettes that are known to most people for offense, because NOT everyone calls it that. Especially in this generation. So use basic words when it comes to entertainment. Words that CANNOT be taken out of context where context does not apply to anything but for a productive, creative, systematic, and enjoyable game. Not expressing your knowledge of different words that could be taken out of context.
> [{quoted}](name=Zombie Gerbil,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqo2i9l8,comment-id=00010000000000000001,timestamp=2019-05-25T06:49:22.792+0000) > > Once again, there is no expression on my end of the statement. > Take it as you will in those terms, not my concern. I have no personal opinion of you as a person in general. That should be clear. > > As for the contexts, you don't need a reason, you just need to understand that the basic language for humans is that it's arbitrary and productive when it comes to the basic communication between us people. Especially when it comes to entertainment. People come to this game to escape and enjoy some competitive play. But when it comes to communication, people expect the basic communication of the game with the intent to make the game productive, creative, systematic to the game. Not the ignorance of other players using slang to be "edgy" or "cool" or thinking people will simply fold to their standards or knowledge of the words. People get called different things every day with ill intent, ignorance, or simply out of hate. We need to understand that slang for a cigarette isn't a common tongue for all people of all culture. > > Which is why context should not be needed, just because you feel like you need to express your variation of slangs that little to no people may or may not understand. So when you say something for an example as your slang used for cigarettes that are known to most people for offense, because NOT everyone calls it that. Especially in this generation. So use basic words when it comes to entertainment. Words that CANNOT be taken out of context where context does not apply to anything but for a productive, creative, systematic, and enjoyable game. Not expressing your knowledge of different words that could be taken out of context. Thank you, I really appreciate that answer I didn't feel any malice in it maybe I'm too sensitive :) I'm not a hateful person. I guess I just feel with an account that has been around since season 2 and has 0 infractions that the first offense wouldn't be a 14 day ban over a poor choice in words that was clearly not hatefully directed towards anyone.
rujitra (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=TesticlePrime,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqo2i9l8,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-05-25T05:46:04.524+0000) > > It seems as if Riot does not take context into account at all when issuing bans This is correct and intentional. >and I have a hard time thinking any truly rational minded person who enjoys this game doesn't have a problem with this. You having a hard time "thinking" it does not make you correct. >Should someone get banned for saying they are "stepping outside to smoke a %%%"? Yes, because there's no reason to say that in game at all, and that word is not used in North American English to mean cigarette anymore. > I mean this is completely normal language in much of the world No, it's not. >and doesn't have a single bit of rage, homophobic intent or anything negative at all associated with it other than giving oneself lung cancer possibly??? The sole meaning of the word in its modern use is a homophobic word. Just as the "n word" arose from the term "negro", which was a non-racist term to describe someone of African descent in official documents (similarly, whites were called white in official documents). However, the word became racist over time due to it only being used in that manner. > So if someone goes in chat and types, "I'm gonna step outside after this game to smoke a %%%, I hope I don't get cancer" They are gonna get a 14 day ban because RIOT doesn't take context into account at all with regards to "%%%" or "cancer"? Likely, yes. Because again, that word is not used in North America to mean cigarette **at all**, and is only very infrequently used in the rest of the world. The only people who utilize that word regularly are those that do so because they **know** it will cause offense/discomfort to others and/or turn heads - they're trying to be "edgelords". The word "cig" is much more common as a short word for cigarette and carries no negative connotation. >There's just something fundamentally wrong about this.... You are entitled to that opinion. The majority of the world disagrees with your opinion. >I mean, shouldn't they at least have an actual human review these things rather than just banning people for keywords without a lick of context, or even worse, when context is given and it isn't bad context. Any player can ask for human review of their or any other player's behavior, either with/without a ban, by submitting a support ticket. They will not discuss other player's behavior but will take appropriate **human reviewed** action - including removing punishments if deemed in error. The vast majority of the world (and League's playerbase) disagrees with your opinion that that word should be tolerated when used as shorthand for cigarette. > It's the same as if someone's friend showed up to the game and they said "what's up %%%%%?" ....you know, the way people talk in much of the world to THEIR FRIENDS. Again, the only people that talk this way to their friends are those that grew up doing so as "edgelords" - because they knew the term was controversial and took pride in "breaking the rules". It is not Riot's problem to fix people who are knowingly and willingly attempting to be "edgelords". > Now, before all the social justice warriors pop up out of the woodwork If you consider it being a "social justice warrior" to like, be respectful and not take an easy step (replace three letters with three other letters) that requires literally no effort on your part to avoid offense to someone else, fine. Most of the world would call the "social justice warrior" a decent person, and call you a selfish jerk. >I'm not advocating people say the "f" word or the "n" word You are literally advocating for people to be allowed to say that in game. >I understand both have hateful connotations when used in a certain context and I don't think anyone should ever use them in a context that demeans someone's race or sexual orientation. The word itself demeans someone's race or sexual orientation. That is the sole meaning of the word in common lexicon nowadays. >Those bans, I understand. But when someone says one of RIOTS "no no" words, and they say it using context that clearly shows no malice hate or ill will.... why does that constitute a ban? Thoughts?? Thanks. Because, as I've explained above, there is no reason to use the word, the word can be easily replaced with other words that are just as short, and Riot is not going to cater to "edgelords" at the expense of those players who may be suffering from depression, anxiety, or feel abused when they see that word. Please keep in mind that many people in this world are beaten while being called the "f word" or even still the "n word" - especially teenagers by their parents who fail to accept that homosexuality exists, is not a choice, and is not abnormal. People **die** because of their sexuality, and when they are being beaten to death (or having other hate crimes committed against them), the word is commonly uttered. You are suggesting that people who wish to play League should be forced to remember the time their dad beat them with a belt until they were bruised, just because you should have some "right" to say that word (when there's no reason to). League is a game of enjoyment, and you're saying that multiple percent of the population should not be permitted to enjoy it, just so you can use a word that there is no reason to use. I am not sure if you truly understand the gravity of this. There are those who commit suicide because they are bullied in school or even by their own family for their sexuality (using this word, quite frequently). Those that live many times will have lifelong PTSD from such a situation - and PTSD treatment tends to be based mainly on removal of the trauma first, then treating memories. You cannot remove the trauma of that word with those people unless you remove them from society - which is not possible. It is incredibly selfish, insensitive, and rude of someone to say "my right to use an unnecessary word is more important than your right to be a member of society". I know this may be hard to imagine for you, or other players. If you have not experienced the immense trauma an unsupportive or abusive family, friend group, school, etc. can cause to a young person who is not purely "straight", then you are very lucky, and you need to remember that. Homosexuality (or abuse that is led to from "coming out" or being "out") is one of the highest causes of teenage suicide in the world. The use of that word in League does not help that, and in fact, may contribute to suicide in vulnerable people. And again, **there's literally no fucking reason you have to use that word**. So, Riot's decided to not permit that word to be used. You want to be an edgelord? Go do so in your room please, not on the internet, and not where other people may be negatively affected by you.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqo2i9l8,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-05-25T06:38:33.171+0000) > > This is correct and intentional. > > You having a hard time "thinking" it does not make you correct. > > Yes, because there's no reason to say that in game at all, and that word is not used in North American English to mean cigarette anymore. > > No, it's not. > > The sole meaning of the word in its modern use is a homophobic word. Just as the "n word" arose from the term "negro", which was a non-racist term to describe someone of African descent in official documents (similarly, whites were called white in official documents). However, the word became racist over time due to it only being used in that manner. > > Likely, yes. Because again, that word is not used in North America to mean cigarette **at all**, and is only very infrequently used in the rest of the world. The only people who utilize that word regularly are those that do so because they **know** it will cause offense/discomfort to others and/or turn heads - they're trying to be "edgelords". The word "cig" is much more common as a short word for cigarette and carries no negative connotation. > > You are entitled to that opinion. The majority of the world disagrees with your opinion. > > Any player can ask for human review of their or any other player's behavior, either with/without a ban, by submitting a support ticket. They will not discuss other player's behavior but will take appropriate **human reviewed** action - including removing punishments if deemed in error. The vast majority of the world (and League's playerbase) disagrees with your opinion that that word should be tolerated when used as shorthand for cigarette. > > Again, the only people that talk this way to their friends are those that grew up doing so as "edgelords" - because they knew the term was controversial and took pride in "breaking the rules". It is not Riot's problem to fix people who are knowingly and willingly attempting to be "edgelords". > > If you consider it being a "social justice warrior" to like, be respectful and not take an easy step (replace three letters with three other letters) that requires literally no effort on your part to avoid offense to someone else, fine. Most of the world would call the "social justice warrior" a decent person, and call you a selfish jerk. > > You are literally advocating for people to be allowed to say that in game. > > The word itself demeans someone's race or sexual orientation. That is the sole meaning of the word in common lexicon nowadays. > > Because, as I've explained above, there is no reason to use the word, the word can be easily replaced with other words that are just as short, and Riot is not going to cater to "edgelords" at the expense of those players who may be suffering from depression, anxiety, or feel abused when they see that word. > > Please keep in mind that many people in this world are beaten while being called the "f word" or even still the "n word" - especially teenagers by their parents who fail to accept that homosexuality exists, is not a choice, and is not abnormal. People **die** because of their sexuality, and when they are being beaten to death (or having other hate crimes committed against them), the word is commonly uttered. You are suggesting that people who wish to play League should be forced to remember the time their dad beat them with a belt until they were bruised, just because you should have some "right" to say that word (when there's no reason to). League is a game of enjoyment, and you're saying that multiple percent of the population should not be permitted to enjoy it, just so you can use a word that there is no reason to use. > > I am not sure if you truly understand the gravity of this. There are those who commit suicide because they are bullied in school or even by their own family for their sexuality (using this word, quite frequently). Those that live many times will have lifelong PTSD from such a situation - and PTSD treatment tends to be based mainly on removal of the trauma first, then treating memories. You cannot remove the trauma of that word with those people unless you remove them from society - which is not possible. It is incredibly selfish, insensitive, and rude of someone to say "my right to use an unnecessary word is more important than your right to be a member of society". > > I know this may be hard to imagine for you, or other players. If you have not experienced the immense trauma an unsupportive or abusive family, friend group, school, etc. can cause to a young person who is not purely "straight", then you are very lucky, and you need to remember that. Homosexuality (or abuse that is led to from "coming out" or being "out") is one of the highest causes of teenage suicide in the world. The use of that word in League does not help that, and in fact, may contribute to suicide in vulnerable people. > > And again, **there's literally no fucking reason you have to use that word**. So, Riot's decided to not permit that word to be used. You want to be an edgelord? Go do so in your room please, not on the internet, and not where other people may be negatively affected by you. I SERIOUSLY APPRECIATE THE TIME YOU TOOK TO WRITE THIS....and I mean that. I also sincerely appreciate your dedication to the LGBT cause. I'm an ally. I think we just come from different worlds friend.... I have friends who are homosexual who call themselves the f word on the reg....my college roommate was/is a gay man who also used that term rather freely when speaking about himself. I completely understand that a lot of people don't use that word in such a carefree and friendly sort of manner in their normal parlance I guess I have just had sort of a different perspective when it comes to the LGBT community as a straight man being that I was introduced to this game in fact by one of the aforementioned people. So hey, I'm an ally, and I get that words hurt people. I guess I just feel like context matters way more than you do, but I'm nowhere near as articulate as to be able to explain why. I truly do understand what you mean though and should have thought about the ramifications that word might have on people who just view the word as hateful regardless of context. I'm not advocating people say that in the game, I literally said that I've said it 1 time in 5 years, and that one time it was referring legit to a cigarette and that context was not taken into account remotely when handing out the punishment. I'm not trying to make it any more complex than that. I get it, shouldn't say the word in game, lesson learned, but you seem pretty logical and I have a hard time understanding how you just throw the concept of intent and context out the window completely. Thanks again.
: > [{quoted}](name=Zombie Gerbil,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqo2i9l8,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-05-25T06:17:11.271+0000) > > Answer your first question, don't assume the expression of texts if you don't know the full intent behind it. > This is why most players lash out because they do not comprehend the full intent behind a bunch of letters. That's why the rules are made. Because people should be focusing on the game. Not expressing ignorance because you could care less about the meaning of the words. Words have meanings, and nothing about it is basic communication. Ignorance is a poor tool in the battle of the wits. This is why the world is so hateful because people don't understand the meaning behind the words they use and when they do understand, it's with ill intent. > > Nothing about hatred is basic. > > Secondly, what rule? The policy you agreed to before you downloaded the game or made the account you're currently one. Riot doesn't bend to your standards, the WORLD doesn't bend to your standards. What little understanding you may have with hate speech doesn't speak for the definition of it. You don't need a list. You simply need to understand NOT to do it and simply just follow the policy like any responsible human being would. Thanks for a slightly less hostile and asshole-ish answer. Superiority complex much??? I completely agree with everything you just said except one thing, you seem to find hate speech in the examples above and I do not find any hate speech whatsoever there. I'm not trying to be clever, I'm posing a very logical question. You seem to be of the opinion that there are certain words, that no matter the context, one should never say...and you are entitled to that, I just have a hard time agreeing with that stance considering the multitude of words, in my language at least, that take on so many meanings. Fuck for instance.... How many things can that one word mean. It can mean so many things ranging from positive to negative and everything in between. It's just a word though, the context behind it seems to be where the power should lie, and that seems to be what you're ignoring in some sense of social justice. What you're not understanding is I'm not a bigot or a hateful person, I'm just someone who doesn't understand why we don't take context into account with regards to handing out instant punishments, or in your case, getting out our jump to conclusions mat and assuming a lot about the person who said a statement that apparently offended you, despite it having absolutely no negative context whatsoever. I actually apologize if this initial post offended you, the smartassedness of your replies shows that you either think I'm trolling with this question, I'm a hateful person, or something to that affect but I assure none of those things are remotely true, I am asking a question about basic communication and how words take on multiple meanings and cant help but wonder why you seem to be so offended by a word that is used in a non offensive way. I understand words can be heavy and some words can hurt people, and I think that is your point, but first of all you really don't need to be a jackass to express that point, at no point did I really say anything out of line or imply that I don't understand that words hurt people. I do. That is why it is best to avoid those words altogether. But a word like the f word, it LITERALLY has multiple meanings.... so I just can't understand if someone is talking about a cigarette CLEARLY, and in the 5 years they've been playing this game that word has shown up on an otherwise spotless account 1 time, and that 1 time it shows up it is clearly in the context of a cigarette and not even directed at a person.... what is the offense?
> [{quoted}](name=TesticlePrime,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqo2i9l8,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-25T06:31:53.091+0000) > > Thanks for a slightly less hostile and asshole-ish answer. Superiority complex much??? I completely agree with everything you just said except one thing, you seem to find hate speech in the examples above and I do not find any hate speech whatsoever there. I'm not trying to be clever, I'm posing a very logical question. You seem to be of the opinion that there are certain words, that no matter the context, one should never say...and you are entitled to that, I just have a hard time agreeing with that stance considering the multitude of words, in my language at least, that take on so many meanings. Fuck for instance.... How many things can that one word mean. It can mean so many things ranging from positive to negative and everything in between. It's just a word though, the context behind it seems to be where the power should lie, and that seems to be what you're ignoring in some sense of social justice. What you're not understanding is I'm not a bigot or a hateful person, I'm just someone who doesn't understand why we don't take context into account with regards to handing out instant punishments, or in your case, getting out our jump to conclusions mat and assuming a lot about the person who said a statement that apparently offended you, despite it having absolutely no negative context whatsoever. I actually apologize if this initial post offended you, the smartassedness of your replies shows that you either think I'm trolling with this question, I'm a hateful person, or something to that affect but I assure none of those things are remotely true, I am asking a question about basic communication and how words take on multiple meanings and cant help but wonder why you seem to be so offended by a word that is used in a non offensive way. I understand words can be heavy and some words can hurt people, and I think that is your point, but first of all you really don't need to be a jackass to express that point, at no point did I really say anything out of line or imply that I don't understand that words hurt people. I do. That is why it is best to avoid those words altogether. But a word like the f word, it LITERALLY has multiple meanings.... so I just can't understand if someone is talking about a cigarette CLEARLY, and in the 5 years they've been playing this game that word has shown up on an otherwise spotless account 1 time, and that 1 time it shows up it is clearly in the context of a cigarette and not even directed at a person.... what is the offense? I guess my point is I feel like they should take the context not only of what was said, but of the account in question into account. I've never had a single warning, chat ban, ban or anything of the like in 5 years because I'm not a super toxic player or anything like that, I've had my moments for sure, but I've never gotten in trouble with this game because I have given them no reason to, given all the circumstances I think it's a bit harsh to rush to a 14 day ban and not immediately respond to my ticket.
: Answer your first question, don't assume the expression of texts if you don't know the full intent behind it. This is why most players lash out because they do not comprehend the full intent behind a bunch of letters. That's why the rules are made. Because people should be focusing on the game. Not expressing ignorance because you could care less about the meaning of the words. Words have meanings, and nothing about it is basic communication. Ignorance is a poor tool in the battle of the wits. This is why the world is so hateful because people don't understand the meaning behind the words they use and when they do understand, it's with ill intent. Nothing about hatred or ignorance is basic. Secondly, what rule? The policy you agreed to before you downloaded the game or made the account you're currently on. Riot doesn't bend to your standards, the WORLD doesn't bend to your standards. What little understanding you may have with hate speech doesn't speak for the definition of it. You don't need a list. You simply need to understand NOT to do it and simply just follow the policy as any responsible human being would. Riot just expect you to respect players and act responsible. So act responsible. Nothing about playing the game as intended is that complex.
> [{quoted}](name=Zombie Gerbil,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqo2i9l8,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-05-25T06:17:11.271+0000) > > Answer your first question, don't assume the expression of texts if you don't know the full intent behind it. > This is why most players lash out because they do not comprehend the full intent behind a bunch of letters. That's why the rules are made. Because people should be focusing on the game. Not expressing ignorance because you could care less about the meaning of the words. Words have meanings, and nothing about it is basic communication. Ignorance is a poor tool in the battle of the wits. This is why the world is so hateful because people don't understand the meaning behind the words they use and when they do understand, it's with ill intent. > > Nothing about hatred is basic. > > Secondly, what rule? The policy you agreed to before you downloaded the game or made the account you're currently one. Riot doesn't bend to your standards, the WORLD doesn't bend to your standards. What little understanding you may have with hate speech doesn't speak for the definition of it. You don't need a list. You simply need to understand NOT to do it and simply just follow the policy like any responsible human being would. Thanks for a slightly less hostile and asshole-ish answer. Superiority complex much??? I completely agree with everything you just said except one thing, you seem to find hate speech in the examples above and I do not find any hate speech whatsoever there. I'm not trying to be clever, I'm posing a very logical question. You seem to be of the opinion that there are certain words, that no matter the context, one should never say...and you are entitled to that, I just have a hard time agreeing with that stance considering the multitude of words, in my language at least, that take on so many meanings. Fuck for instance.... How many things can that one word mean. It can mean so many things ranging from positive to negative and everything in between. It's just a word though, the context behind it seems to be where the power should lie, and that seems to be what you're ignoring in some sense of social justice. What you're not understanding is I'm not a bigot or a hateful person, I'm just someone who doesn't understand why we don't take context into account with regards to handing out instant punishments, or in your case, getting out our jump to conclusions mat and assuming a lot about the person who said a statement that apparently offended you, despite it having absolutely no negative context whatsoever. I actually apologize if this initial post offended you, the smartassedness of your replies shows that you either think I'm trolling with this question, I'm a hateful person, or something to that affect but I assure none of those things are remotely true, I am asking a question about basic communication and how words take on multiple meanings and cant help but wonder why you seem to be so offended by a word that is used in a non offensive way. I understand words can be heavy and some words can hurt people, and I think that is your point, but first of all you really don't need to be a jackass to express that point, at no point did I really say anything out of line or imply that I don't understand that words hurt people. I do. That is why it is best to avoid those words altogether. But a word like the f word, it LITERALLY has multiple meanings.... so I just can't understand if someone is talking about a cigarette CLEARLY, and in the 5 years they've been playing this game that word has shown up on an otherwise spotless account 1 time, and that 1 time it shows up it is clearly in the context of a cigarette and not even directed at a person.... what is the offense?
zPOOPz (NA)
: > So if someone goes in chat and types, "I'm gonna step outside after this game to smoke a %%%, I hope I don't get cancer" They are gonna get a 14 day ban because RIOT doesn't take context into account at all with regards to "%%%" or "cancer"? There's just something fundamentally wrong about this.... I mean, shouldn't they at least have an actual human review these things rather than just banning people for keywords without a lick of context, or even worse, when context is given and it isn't bad context. So first and foremost, I don't believe this is a normal language in pretty much any part of the NA regions so the chance of someone saying it is pretty low (you have safety number 2) (also kind of curious why does your team needs to know you're going for a smoke after game...). Secondly, if it is a normal language in other part of the world, people would not find that phase strange or offensive at all and would unlikely to report you. So you have safeguard number 1: no report = no IFS = no review = no punishment. Now if somehow someone finds that offensive or reports you just because, you have safeguard number 2: support ticket. You can ask for a manual review via support ticket or live chat and you will get an actual human review that will be able to see your context and remove your punishment. With those 2 safeguards in place, they should alleviate any problems you may have with innocent phases that are not offensive in nature but falls under ZT. As far as other contexts for other reasons you may had been banned for flaming because someone instigated it or you defend yourself or you just want to flame trolls, etc., we've been down this road already. Back in the old Tribunal, we were given full chat logs of all teammates including game play statistics, reporting types, reason for reporting (the little comment box that you can manually type in on the report screen), and how many and which teammate reported you including how many enemy team reported you. Given all that context and extra information, the Old Tribunal would still overwhelmingly voted to punish majority of all cases. So, why does Rito needs a new not fully automated system? You can ask for human manual review via support ticket or live chat at anytime. You've never lost that option with the inception of the IFS or old Tribunal.
> [{quoted}](name=zPOOPz,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqo2i9l8,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-05-25T06:03:00.725+0000) > > So first and foremost, I don't believe this is a normal language in pretty much any part of the NA regions so the chance of someone saying it is pretty low (you have safety number 2) (also kind of curious why does your team needs to know you're going for a smoke after game...). Secondly, if it is a normal language in other part of the world, people would not find that phase strange or offensive at all and would unlikely to report you. So you have safeguard number 1: no report = no IFS = no review = no punishment. Now if somehow someone finds that offensive or reports you just because, you have safeguard number 2: support ticket. You can ask for a manual review via support ticket or live chat and you will get an actual human review that will be able to see your context and remove your punishment. > > With those 2 safeguards in place, they should alleviate any problems you may have with innocent phases that are not offensive in nature but falls under ZT. > > As far as other contexts for other reasons you may had been banned for flaming because someone instigated it or you defend yourself or you just want to flame trolls, etc., we've been down this road already. Back in the old Tribunal, we were given full chat logs of all teammates including game play statistics, reporting types, reason for reporting (the little comment box that you can manually type in on the report screen), and how many and which teammate reported you including how many enemy team reported you. Given all that context and extra information, the Old Tribunal would still overwhelmingly voted to punish majority of all cases. > > So, why does Rito needs a new not fully automated system? You can ask for human manual review via support ticket or live chat at anytime. You've never lost that option with the inception of the IFS or old Tribunal. Thank you for actually trying to communicate like a normal human being and not one of these other things that seem to live in these forums. People like you genuinely restore my faith in this community. I was let down by the first comment. I will never understand why some people just like to be jerks. I just put in a ticket....and I'm confident the reason for the report was the use of the "f" word, which upon review, if they actually do that which you say they will, they will see that even the people who reported me (who were the two trolls that banned our own champs in champ select and proceeded to flame everyone all game) acknowledged in chat, clear as crystal that what was being spoken about was in fact a cigarette. So if upon reading the chat it's about a cig, I say it's about a cig, and the two people who reported me say it's about a cig directly in chat, I guess my confusion is who was offended by the context of a cigarette. My issue is the time I have to wait for this to get cleared up and for my account to get unlocked because their automated system can't tell the difference between hate speech and a cigarette. But seriously thank you for the intelligent and non asshole like reply I have submitted a ticket. Thanks!
: Context isn't needed, because you're not here to express context of why you're breaking the rules. You're here to play a video game. Riot gave you the privilege of being able to communicate with other players in their game thinking that you're able to handle the game and having the responsibility of following a policy that you agreed to like any other average human being. But no, you want to be able to break these rules for your own standards. You want to be able to express any thoughts without any consequences. Sorry, but no, the system is fine. The only thing that needs to change is your attitude or simply find a new game.
> [{quoted}](name=Zombie Gerbil,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vqo2i9l8,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-05-25T05:59:45.188+0000) > > Context isn't needed, because you're not here to express context of why you're breaking the rules. > You're here to play a video game. Riot gave you the privilege of being able to communicate with other players in their game thinking that you're able to handle the game and having the responsibility of following a policy that you agreed to like any other average human being. But no, you want to be able to break these rules for your own standards. You want to be able to express any thoughts without any consequences. > > Sorry, but no, the system is fine. > The only thing that needs to change is your attitude or simply find a new game. Two questions for you friend.... First, why the hostility? The question wasn't anything out of line or disrespectful, in fact I think it was a completely logical question regarding the very basics of human communication. Your answer was snide and condescending for absolutely no reason at all. Secondly, What rule is being broken exactly? It would seem RIOT has a problem with hate speech, but I also have a problem with hate speech. No hate speech was listed in the above examples, which again can't help but make me wonder why you seem so agitated at post that is simply asking for clarification, but rather than give clarification you tell me I'm breaking a rule that I didn't know existed. I'm aware hate speech has a 0% tolerance, there was no hate speech, so I'm sort of confused as to your point as well as your hostility.
Rioter Comments
: So according to Riot some names are offensive!
I'm trying to figure out when "Nuts" became inappropriate. This is a word featured on many children's cartoons for forever.
GenoXx (NA)
: Client is asking me to choose summoner name when I already have an acount.
Bump...I'm having the same issue. Only been gone 4 months.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Why is the option to report unskilled players removed.
I really thought it wouldn't pair me with people I reported as unskilled... I never abused it...I only used it when it was borderline feeding... I don't like reporting people for intentional feeding if it's just a mild case of it... there are the true true massive feeders and then there are people who have no common sense and by proxy feed their butts off...there should be a middle ground report where you can let Riot know that you no longer want to play with a particular person
: Why did riot get rid of the unskilled report
I always only used it on the absolute worst players hoping to God that by doing so it wouldn't pair me with them again...I can confirm this didn't work lol.... still they should have a system where you can "report" or do something to keep yourself from being stuck on a team with certain people in the future.... there are some people who suck the joy out of the game by their ability to tank their entire team with their idiocy... there should be an option for players to have a say in who they play with in the future.

TesticlePrime

Level 142 (NA)
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