: Pyke change proposal that doesn't completely ruin solo pyke like the current proposed changes will.
I see both of these comments so far, I propose another change then, give Pyke a proximity buff (think old kalista w passive) where his abilities are stronger/have better range/something when he is near any ally (~1000 units or so) Weaken his current abilities, and make them a tad stronger when near allies (perhaps stacking per ally near like a school of fish theme) thinking 25% weaker solo 10% stronger than currently when with team.
: Damage Text Changes
10/10 any improvement is welcomed
Rioter Comments
Rylalei (EUNE)
: What makes a champion "hard to play"?
Fun fact, ahri's winrate and banrate are both higher than zed's above plat.
: zed:
I too love when the enemy has 7000 hp lategame and 0 mr so my passive can even do that much damage.
: > [{quoted}](name=The Chillin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w3cAAblj,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-06-14T18:58:22.775+0000) > > Cloth armor stops one entire lethality item, chainvest/ninja tabi stops 2. 300g stops 2900g worth of lethality, 800/1100g stops 5800g worth of lethality. Items with lethality on them have other stats and abilities.
use that extra 2600 to fit a ruby crystal in there, that blocks 180 damage from the 55AD from lethality items feeding into ability and auto ratios. and after you spend that 700 gold total on cloth and a ruby crystal, use the other 2200 to build something nice.
: So whats the point of building armor again?
Cloth armor stops one entire lethality item, chainvest/ninja tabi stops 2. 300g stops 2900g worth of lethality, 800/1100g stops 5800g worth of lethality. Try this, you're welcome. Also we have broken items like phantom dancer, deaths dance, steraks, zhonyas that just completely save you regardless of you behind/bad you are.
: You really want bruisers to be worse than they are ?
: Can we remove or nerf Black Cleaver?
I wonder if a gold tank main who hates classes meant to counter his should be asking for items to be removed so he doesn't have to play correctly into any matchup should be heeded.
: wukong new Q
He will be a Trinity user. That's the only way to make up for his damage loss.
Gildarzt (EUW)
: No. It would be OP as fuck to put shaco's R in a basic ability.
An immobile, 5 second, half damage clone is more than justified to mimic keystone's. Lb and neeko already maintain debuffs like slows/ignite. At least make the clone function with that and keystones. Or this "juking fantasy" just won't work against smart players.
Gildarzt (EUW)
: Are you trying to compare shaco's R (his ultimate) with wukong's W (basic ability)?
Yes, a clone with the purpose of mimicking a champion should behave like a champion.
RaQqa (EUNE)
: I appriciate wukong changes on pbe, but I have one suggestion to add.
He feels super clunky as is, after using abilities it interrupts/stops inputs from being made for about 0.1 sec. Ruins how fluid he feels on live servers
: > [{quoted}](name=The Chillin,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=NKop7U6K,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-17T22:25:21.190+0000) > > Riot hates the idea of giving champs armor shred currently. Q deals magic to make people want to build lethality less. Clones dealing magic doesnt make much sense. His Q does feel like shit tho, agreed. I just I like it as a way to fight full tanks at mid-late game, cause I believe that bruisers/fighters should have the advantage against tanks, tanks should deal well with assassins and mages. You're def right about the Q tho, but I feel like a magical decoy should be dealing magic damage instead of physical.
I was working with someone on Zed recently and the rioter involved was adamant that no armor shred be involved. At least they took my idea for the AD ratio on Q, now I think this champ is going places.
: My Thoughts and Critique of the NEW WUKONG.
Riot hates the idea of giving champs armor shred currently. Q deals magic to make people want to build lethality less. Clones dealing magic doesnt make much sense. His Q does feel like shit tho, agreed.
Rioter Comments
Veraska (NA)
: Some wukong feedback
As predicted he is just another trinity abuser now since they took out his AD ratios, best way to play him by far with phage passive for sticking, 20% cdr, health and attackspeed for clone damage. I personally think giving him an AD ratio on Q the same as the heal would be fine. Keeping the 'low base damage will keep people from building lethality' mentality but making it not feel bad to put points into. Cause right now other than the cdr I cant justify putting more than 2 points into it before 13 ( I like E Q W Q E E E E for level 9, then maxing W cause im only getting 20 damage and 20 heal if i put more points into it)
Rylalei (EUNE)
: Care to expand?
This rework would make him more unplayable than he currently is. 1 sec delay before using abilities after spawning a shadow? lol There is no reason to even put a cd on the auto attack bonus as currently proposed. W cd starting after the ability ends would mean you have to lower the base cd of the ability by 4 sec not inc by 2. The R is actually impossible to do, and feels skillless and unrewarding. To list a few things. This changelist clearly wasnt made in earnest.
: Why do you keep buffing ADCs while nerfing other roles??
This is so true tho, role has been overpowered and brainless for a long time
Rylalei (EUNE)
: Zed rework idea
Unimplementable and not rewarding
FelBeef (NA)
: Wukong 1 trick since season 2. 1million mastery over accounts. Mid diamond. My concern is with this kit still not making sense as far as scaling and a damage amplification passive being a bandaid. His q now does magic damage. Why? He has an attack speed steroid and an ult that scales with total AD. Does q scale with Ad but for some reason do magic damage to diversify his damage output? Does the clones auto attack speed scale with our current attack speed or when it is cast. For example if I dash into a jungle camp and then immediately w to avoid being destroyed by krugs will my clone recieve my boosted attack speed and stack my passive faster? If I w then dash with the clone attack with my current AS or when it was cast? Q not scaling with damage seems like you're gutting his q damage in the hope that his conditional damage source of someone being stupid enough to stand next to and auto attack his clone in an extended trade somehow compensates for his q not scaling. (But i guess it's better than the 10 damage it currently does) I would love to test these changes and see scaling numbers as well. What do I need to do to make a pbe account
I think they are trying to force the E max playstyle with this. Pbe account google league of legends pbe, you apply using your account, and hope they give you one. Also honor level 3 or higher I think
Meddler (NA)
: Prototype Wukong Changes on PBE Context
If removing damage I would suggest giving him more dps via cooldown, I love the champion but I have to say this does make him objectively weaker even with sustain added. Perhaps give his Q and/or E a lower cooldown? or tie it to having full stacks of 'Crushing Blows' (similar to Darius passive). Maybe slide some movespeed/rank into W during stealth. Also his R numbers are currently interesting. Lategame it isn't worth letting your R finish the full duration since doing damage via auto attacks and Q are more worthwhile damage wise. I wouldn't mind seeing him become a sticky dps champ with lower cds, riven right now does more damage with flat out more mobility, renekton just has more damage in every way. Give him lower cds and he could stand up and punish with frequent trade patterns with the new small sustain. Love the changes so far though.
Meddler (NA)
: Q is still an AA reset yes. Let me know how you're feeling about ability to access the heal once you've had a chance to try it in game? My thinking around not adding additional CC was that there was an opportunity here to keep Wukong more distinct from other melee damage dealers while still making him more effective in some circumstances. If this direction doesn't work out we'd be open to considering more standard CC approaches, worry that makes him more generic though and undercuts our ability to offer other tools. Revised Stoneskin on the passive is intended to give him better burst resistance in teamfights. Going with Armor and MR for now rather than DR because that gives better hooks into the item system for both Wukong and other players. He can itemize to strengthen the passive, with Stoneplate especially looking really strong in some circumstances, players really struggling against him can prioritize % shred. DR by contrast's a flatter mechanic that removes some depth from the game. It's got its place certainly, but think there's value in avoiding it where possible unless extreme consistency is really important (e.g. Braum E). Been seeing some meaningful trickster increase with a single clone. Again, lemme know how if feels post play though.
Since he is losing damage I suggest maybe lowering his Q CD early maybe late, possibly sliding movespeed to his stealth to give him better repositioning (maybe increase/rank) or making her R tick ratio higher since late game you cancel it immediately after knockup since it is less damage than using a spell (late game R damage > using rest of kit) Love the rework tho, I've been waiting for this for ages!
Rioter Comments
: Riot intentionally gives lower gains/higher losses in diamond.
I did the exact same thing you did, was so demoralized when I saw I was getting shit LP gains, hopefully S10 is less shitty.
: DIANA NERFED IN 9.8??? NEEDS A BUFF ASAP (100% UNVIABLE IN HIGH ELO)
Her shield literally lasts 10 seconds lmao, shorten the duration to 2 and 2 and you got a deal
: The player or the champ? The combo still did like 215 damage despite boneplating and cloth armor so i assume you mean the player........well yeah he could have gone all in i suppose? Feels like Akali would just pop W and Zed would be sitting dry though.
Point is the champ doesn't deal damage if you so much as attempt to build armor. If that were ahri instead of zed with full combo, you easily lose 60% of your hp
: The sad thing is that he's on top tier on some of all those pages like op.gg etc etc, he's Tier 1 as if he was really good, lol, people tend to guide a lot by win rates, when In reality the reason zed was "Op" or felt op and had such a decent win rate after the changes is because zed mains were spamming the shit out of him and winning a lot of games, its really sad that a champion who's been bad for 3 seasons received a change, not even a buff, a change and got instantly nerfed when he was finally playable, hell, go play zed now its depressing to play him, I don't even want to play the champion anymore, you are weaker than most mid champions even more after the nerfs, 22 cd W, less damage on Q, some spam bone plating, or theres the stupid seal and corruption pots thing, while theres way stronger champs than him and there were even after the buffs, after buffs you would still deal no damage after someone bought tabis because lethality is a shit stat too, deal a lot of damage to no armors and deal no damage to armors, the champion is not good nor early nor mid nor lategame anymore, he's just bad at all time during each match, its so fucking depressing to play the champion and to see that riot hasn't touched real OP champs like riven and vayne, riven who can have nonexistent cooldowns on her shield while also healing because of spear and DD, vayne who was permanent invisibility during teamfights with a support like Lulu or nami shielding her and giving her more damage, while also stacking her passive with 2 autos with rage blade. But hey, adc mains complain and riot listens to them cause they love to complain about anything that kills them when they know well they made a mistake by not looking at the map or backing off, they overstep onto a zed and they say he's op, when theres waaaay more champions that do that with less problems. Even mages do assassins work better its just ridiculous at this point. At the very least if they were going to nerf him by increasing the cool down, which was one of the biggest complaints we had since its our trading tools, they should've not tuned down the damage, it makes no sense that they made the champ worse than he was before. They haven't even reworked the useless passive he has.
I feel, I have 2.2 million mastery on the champ, but silver players on mages with no idea what they are doing are a higher threat than you in lane. Mage bias is super strong rn with riot.
: ......Nice enough clip but what do you wana accomplish by posting it*?
Laugh at how bad Zed is.
: i'm kinda sick of how hard this community hates on the champs that take passion to master and play
Don't do that here, the population of boards is low elo shitposters that jerk themselves off to adcs and mages. You are correct though, objectively speaking.
PDawg991 (NA)
: A newbie's take on the game
Focus on dying less. After landing phase ends don't do the same thing over and over. Every movement out of lane needs to be"how can I (safely) inflict damage to the enemy's wincon/put my team in a good position".
: Zed is only fair to play and objectively weak / bad in more situations than he is good in at a level of play where people are proficient with their champions and people know why he is so weak. The same people whining about zed I could smash with the aforementioned zed even though I am an adc main. I think if they are invested enough in the game to get emotional and salty then it's easier to blame zed then man up / learn things and grow and that would be required to understand why Zed needs a lot of love right now or to understand his problems.
> [{quoted}](name=Brony Gaymer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=P16d7tfw,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-04-26T14:55:22.558+0000) > > Zed is only fair to play and objectively weak / bad in more situations than he is good in at a level of play where people are proficient with their champions and people know why he is so weak. The same people whining about zed I could smash with the aforementioned zed even though I am an adc main. I think if they are invested enough in the game to get emotional and salty then it's easier to blame zed then man up / learn things and grow and that would be required to understand why Zed needs a lot of love right now or to understand his problems. This, low elo players need to want to learn the game rather than have riot nerf something that beat them.
Napoleon3 (EUNE)
: zed vs rammus full build.
https://plays.tv/video/5cc23ea77a603898ea/z-e-d-i-s-b-r-o-k-e-n-1-
: > [{quoted}](name=Death by Glamour,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jj8ci8J2,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-25T17:40:37.541+0000) > > 1100g for 20 armour and a passive which isn't that useful against zed. 1100g for negating one of zed's 2 lethality items (With your zhonyas doing the other), and good movement speed, plus extra damage reduction to his duskblade proc also helps against the inevitable AD bruiser in top lane and the ADC in bot lane, couple it with the morello that every mage builds and you'll be fairly tanky another good anti zed item is protobelt because if you can't cc him you can certainly dash away
It actually negates both. its 45 armor after 5 waves, zed wont even have his 2nd lethality item. Seekers alone Counters 5800G worth of Zed's build. that and it gives ap, AND is 170% gold efficient as a purchase. Item is I N S A N E.
: why do mages and adcs refuse to just build ninja tabi?
Cause they're bad but hate it when people point it out. Mages in dia+ just go seekers, and know how to manage mana. With all the mana resources currently in the game its pretty much IMPOSSIBLE to oom yourself before level 6 unless you spam all 3 abilities on cooldown. EVEN THEN you can regen that mistake completely with corrupting, twt&/buiscuts/manaflow/dring. AP champions as a whole regenerate 75% of the mana cost of their Q by the time it comes off cooldown anyways. Good players just take double armor shard and rush seekers to negate Zed's laning phase entirely. Bonus points if you are TF and take boneplating, making Zed's combo before backing deal 30 dmg or less including electrocute.
: > [{quoted}](name=theChibiTina,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=b0WApoV0,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-04-25T00:28:35.568+0000) > > You can't go {{item:3802}} and then {{item:3157}}. You have to buy {{item:3191}} first because he's gonna rush {{item:3134}} and if you don't you're just gonna get screwed as he consistently half healths you. Then you continue to have mana problems while he abuses the fact you couldn't rush a mana item and now have to wait until you have the 1300 gold to afford {{item:3802}}. Playing against a Zed as a mage is torture. Even worse so when he starts to roam and your teammates don't know how to listen to pings and fall back so he gets fed on top of things. Learn to manage mana. If you have trouble you can buy a second Doran's. You don't have to finish Armguard, the 15 armor of Cloth Armor for 300g is enough to negate the Lethality he gets from his full item. Lethality isn't that effective early in the game, so at the point he has a Duskblade it will negate around 15 armor, giving you enough time to get a Chapter and Stopwatch. Also learn to flash his ultimate properly. Helps deal with him a ton and avoid wasting Stopwatch. You flash the second he leaves ult so he can't shuriken you instantly. Abuse his W cooldown. Once he used it or jumped you have a window to punish. Sometimes you can bait them into using it by making them think you left to roam, but you stand behind the river wall. When he used it you just walk up to him and deal damage for free.
Low elo mage players HHHHATE when you ask them to learn how to manage Mana.
: Hi, thanks for your calculation post. I´m also a Zed main in Dia and i tell you the most problem about Zed. After Zed got the buff he was fine but not overpowered (In high elo). If you don´t rush anything like Ludens vs Zed (Kinda stupid anyway) and rush Zhonyas Zed is also balanced vs nearly every mage. Also ADC´s arent easy to kill with Zed in High elo like in low elo. And here is the Problem (in my opinion). Riot is watching where the highest number of players are. Unfortunately the most people are in SIlver, Bronce and Gold elo. What happens if you play in this elo Zed? Example 1: Zed is laning against any Mage. Mage does one mistake and gets killed by Zed. What does the Mage do in low elo? => It rushes Ludens to get more dmg and kill him next time. What does any Zed player thing: "Nice Shit. Free kill". What does any high elo Mage do? => Starts Building first item of Zhonyas and Health maybe. What happens. Zed have it way harder to kill him and its more skill needed to kill him. Example 2: Zed is getting killed by Mage in laning phase. Low Elo Zeds = Rushes his Built which he/she has found in any internet side. Mage got two options now: Rush Zhonyas/Armor so Zed got no chance in killing him early or rushes some dmg item to one shot him. Main Problem by second option = They dont know how to deal with Zeds W and R. Thats the reason they will get killed. Not the fact he is "OP". Its just what i can see. Im often playing with friends in silver and bronce. That caused many games where im challenging some Bronce or Silver player in Mid. And thats the main reasons why they lost the lane (If you keep in Mind their Skill isnt that high what explains my Example 2). Anyway Riot is just watching numbers. They are seeing that the most People of LoL (Silver, Bronce and Gold) are frustating by Zed. Riot is a company like any other Company too. So they need to nerf him duo to not loose more player. Pity for our Zed mains (including me) but comprehensibly. Only problem left is that they wil loose many High Elo player because the game starts to beeing easier for the low elo players. Additional to that: They main goal (like every company) is it to make profit. So they are meeting up with Stylish to "buff" zed. Afterwards they release their Zed Skin (Legendary) to sell them. Duo to the high complains about Zed, the nerf came earlier than expected. But regardless of the early nerf the nerf would have come anyway. Now Renekton and Fiora got buffed. Maybe some Legendary Skin coming for them. We will see. Anyway thats my opinion. You can like it or not :) Peace
Rylalei (EUNE)
: That depends on costs and how much base mana he gets. If he keeps spamming it on you, even if you buy a Seeker's, he won't be able to push you back nor help the jungler in a gank, because we all know how mindless spam finishes a laning phase. It will put some skill back in his kit, and he needs it. His Q CD early is 6s, the cost is 65. He can basically spam it indefinitely and he won't run out of energy.
You keep saying 65, his q cost is 75/70/65/60/55
iiRebs (NA)
: Please give him mana. After it is done, mains would incorporate shojin into their builds and then Zed would destroy everyone with W resets and extra Qs.
I would love that, right now Mana options are too overpowered and you literally can't oom yourself short of spamming all 3 abilities on cooldown before first back
: All could be adjusted with longer cooldowns..... Zed has one of the easiest energy sustain conditions in his kit of all assassins. And it's not like it gates him from a full Energy Execution ever 30-40 seconds as he roams from lane to lane.....
This is completely incorrect, of every energy user aside from Shen, zed has the worst energy restoration. You can get 50 energy for mimicd abilities with 5 points in w. Realistically you will land 1 or 2 mimics in the early to midgame at any given trade opportunity. Restoring 60 energy (30 x2). Lee sin gets 40l20 on first and second auto after each ability, Akali gets it from her passive and w, kennen gets energy from touching anything with E or stunning a target.
: > [{quoted}](name=The Chillin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oaPo2LMH,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-04-21T23:36:28.394+0000) > > Zed is still hot garbage, saying otherwise just means you don't know how to play correctly yet. Scarra put it perfectly, to paraphrase: "Zed wasn't broken last patch, people just don't understand how to play against him. I (scarra) never have any problems playing against the champ. People don't realize that if you dodge a shuriken and he doesn't get electrocute that he's pretty much useless. Most mages can trade into Zed 2 or 3 times before his w is back up." So does this also mean that people dont know how to play against Vayne or Riven?
Yes, 100%. I personally believe they are more overtuned though. Vayne especially. Riven, more so a product of conqueror, shojin, deathsdance being incredibly overpowered. I actually think the game could be fixed if shojin got its passive changed to 15%, deaths dance damage redux went to 20%, and guinsoos rageblade was removed (this could put more pure power into adcs and not break the game) or at least change phantom hit to ever other OTHER auto (every 3 autos get an onhit bonus)
: Nerf Zed
Zed is still hot garbage, saying otherwise just means you don't know how to play correctly yet. Scarra put it perfectly, to paraphrase: "Zed wasn't broken last patch, people just don't understand how to play against him. I (scarra) never have any problems playing against the champ. People don't realize that if you dodge a shuriken and he doesn't get electrocute that he's pretty much useless. Most mages can trade into Zed 2 or 3 times before his w is back up."
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: he has 0 ranked game played as leblanc :thinkinging:
go find his smurfs, most high elo players (streamers especially) have an account that they are serious on, and a lower elo account (or more) that they play other stuff on for lower queue times and more interesting games.
JuiceBoxP (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Antenora,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KFyeGEqa,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-04-19T18:44:08.042+0000) > > I don't play Zed but since when is 50% a high win rate? > > > https://u.gg/lol/champions/zed/build/ Don't know what is this site you are using. https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/tierlist/ Top 54% winrate Mid 52.7% Low as fuck
I too love scuffed websites
Antenora (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=JuiceBoxP,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KFyeGEqa,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-19T18:28:11.436+0000) > > High win rate, high pick rate, high ban rate. > > Yeah zed is in the gutter. > Dead champ. I don't play Zed but since when is 50% a high win rate? https://u.gg/lol/champions/zed/build/
One guy found a website that had zed listed as a 53% wr and boards members circle jerked '53%' without finding reliable sources. Zed had sub 50% wr that 'op' patch in plat and below, had a 51% in diamond for players with 50 games or more.
: Might be time to change Zed
The bad players that give up free kills live on boards, don't expect them to ignore you either, they swarm like bugs. Look for a zed discord if you want real feedback. Riot gameplay captain thinks these boards are a joke because of people like zed haters on boards that run around downvoting anything that has 'Zed' in the title.
: What is your favorite champ to counter Zed with?
Akali, Kassadin, Fizz, any bruiser, Ahri, Ryze, Irelia, Talon, Orianna, TF, Vlad, I missed a bunch, but these are some easy wins vs Zed
: You're still keeping the range recast and the AS Buff
This isn't what made him playable the past month. Zed pre change was UTTER garbage, he is currently PLAYABLE garbage. But low elo frustrations have reached riot's ears, so they have taken up the nerf bat.
: Riot you might want to change your wording
Cause bad players complain on boards about a bad champion that killed them (Zed/shaco/riven/insertMeleeCarryPickHere)
: I don't even give a shit about the 10damage on Q, I care way more that they are nerfing the W cooldown lategame by 2 sec. That shit fucks my teamfight combos because it means u can't reset anymore unless you hit 4+ people with your e.... So fucking dumb just undo everything back to 9.3
3 people downvoted the best Zed NA dismissing it as "someone else's opinion, Zed killed me, he is therefore OVERPOWERED"
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The Chillin

Level 298 (NA)
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