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Well that explains a lot. Your information is horribly outdated.
Tahm Kench was heavily nerfed to take him out of top, specifically, they took power away from his non-ally moves.
Fiddlesticks has been a "support" mage since they screwed him over with the jungle changes, because while they helped Kha'zix out a bunch they did the exact opposite for Fiddle.
And, like I said, it isn't _good_ AoE dps. It's mediocre at best, especially in the jungle since it doesn't apply red buff. If Raptors actually did enough damage to warrant the trade-off, I'd be fine with it. But they don't.
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I'll make it clearer for you, then.
What you're saying is like trying to say it'd be fair for Pantheon's ult to do no damage upon landing because other map-wide mobility does nothing else on arrival. It's simply _not true_.
You're saying that a trend that doesn't exist, exists.
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Man, that's a big oof on your part, since literally none of the statistics match up with what you're trying to say.
Maybe you should spend some time actually looking at the stats instead of pretending you know what they mean when you don't even know what they _are_.
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Not in the context of League of Legends, it's not. Kayle's ultimate didn't have that drawback originally, and counter to your point it does damage at the end now. Though there's also the fact Tryndamere's has no drawback, Yasuo's wind wall, which is much more powerful than Pantheon's E, doesn't prevent you from using Q for its even longer duration, Malphite's passive doesn't make you deal less damage, etc. etc.
Maybe in a different game, you'd have a point. But the vast majority of abilities in _this_ game don't follow the reasoning you're pretending exists.
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He's mainly a top-laner, so that usually doesn't apply. But even in the jungle, 7 out of the 10 neutral mob camps aren't groups.
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7.9 was the worst patch in the game's entire history.
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That's still its primary focus. I'm only asking that it not be beat for damage by his level 1 attack speed, at all points in the game.
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Feel free to actually substantiate that. Because it doesn't counter the point I made at all.
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Over the course of a game, she does. You've specified the only time Trist beats her-- level 2-3.
And you're completely wrong about Kai'sa vs. Vayne. Nevermind the fact that would require them meating somewhere with no minions, like the middle of the river for no reason.
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> [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=mcEHH6mp,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-08-19T07:36:12.519+0000)
>
> Just BTW here, but there's also a line of syrups, dips, dressings, and jams that all have zero calories, sold under a brand called "Walden Farms." I don't think any actual farms are involved in the production process (marketing is funny). I add the syrups to diet shakes for extra flavor (vanilla shakes just taste like milk so they really benefit), the jams go great on rice cakes, and the dressings are a no-brainer replacement for the full-fat stuff most restaurants/delis try to give you. I haven't found much use for the dips yet. Most fruit already has a bunch of calories due to being a pile of sugar, but there are a few that aren't so bad, like watermelon.
>
> Good luck with your diet! :)
I've actually got some Walden Farms syrup in my fridge right now.
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See, that just proved my point. You're talking about playing around their CC. That means neither of them were using their dodges correctly.
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I think you've missed the mark. You grouped 4 champions into one group that they don't all belong in.
{{champion:145}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:236}} are high mobility, high damage
{{champion:18}} {{champion:81}} are frustrating because they're high mobility, high _range_. Very different issue.
As for who would win between Vayne and Kai'sa, in the game Vayne since she has better base damage on her %HP ability and can become untargetable for longer, waiting out Kai'sa's E while her own ultimate is much longer. In the lore, definitely Kai'sa. She isn't a monster, so the silver wouldn't do anything. And she's coming to the fight with actual plasma.
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If it dumpstered Jax and Shen, then you fought a terrible Jax and Shen. That's the explanation for those two. As for Aatrox, well, yeah. Should work against juggernauts.
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> [{quoted}](name=General Esdeath ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=mcEHH6mp,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-19T07:21:15.632+0000)
>
> but does it have high fructose corn syrup?
The Ahri skin or the orange vanilla coke zero? Both answers are no. Corn syrup is very high in calories. And while the research on aspartame is spotty at best, it's fine just like any other "artificial" sweetener.
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Lux got a voice update not too long ago.
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It reduces his crits, which are already reduced by 20% - 40%, by 20% again. On top of 40 additional armor.
Let's say you're a level 13 Caitlin. Base armor makes you take 40% less physical damage. Randuin's would bring that resistance up to 52%, not even counting the crit passive. And the crit passive, because he's gonna have 100%, will reduce the damage of _all_ of his attacks by 20%.
That's a hell of a lot of damage reduction.
Even when he ults, you still have 46% resistance and it doesn't reduce the Randuin's passive at all. Nevermind the 400 extra health.
AND, if you drag the fight out longer by having more defense, you can wait out the wind wall.
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Yeah, unfortunately how the game is balanced-- around professionals who change their champs based on patch notes-- isn't how people actually climb. It's far too easy to just pick a strong champion and master them.
If you don't wanna get bored playing your mains, don't pick boring mains. Jarvan, Sej, and Amumu are extremely one-note. And extremely similar in play style. Dash in, ult. Use W and E, but they don't ever change how they function and aren't essential.
Or, that said, at least pick mains that aren't _as similar_ as those three specifically. Zac and Vi are similar enough for you to like, but different enough to fit, I think.
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> [{quoted}](name=Laughing Fish,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=mcEHH6mp,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-19T06:34:27.393+0000)
>
> Sometimes coke nails it. Their new Orange Vanilla Coca-Cola is surprising good.
And the new Ahri skin is good, too. Exactly.
That said, the orange vanilla is fucking amazing. You gotta try the zero calorie one, too. I've been on a diet and it is the best of any drink I've tried.
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Buff means to strengthen.
Nerf means to weaken.
Hope that cleared it up for you.
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> [{quoted}](name=Teh Song,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=cjHebjgb,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2019-08-19T04:24:36.631+0000)
>
> All champions should thrive equally at high skill level, simple or not.
> Skill floors can be all over the place, but every champion has to have the same skill ceiling.
No, that's not even remotely fair.
Then again, I'm used to uninformed opinions from you.
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> [{quoted}](name=ThisName1sDumb,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=cjHebjgb,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-08-19T04:23:27.631+0000)
>
> Well, not really. It's below Volibear, Udyr, Jax, Darius, Garen, Warwick, Mordekaiser, and Veigar who are all relatively simple champs, at least in my reckoning. Even if you only count half of them as simple champs, that still makes Yi not necessarily high for a simple champ.
Well, no, not really. That simply means Riot's been over-nerfing more difficult champs and over-buffing the less difficult ones. Which really fucks over people who put in the work to learn.
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I understand getting mad about people flaming you, despite the fact you can just mute them.
But griefing people because you didn't get your desired role-- or worse, queueing up for a role you know the champion doesn't belong in-- is not cool.
And I'm not sure why there are still players who don't know what APC means. An ADC is a physical-damage character that provides sustained range damage, _not_ the name of the position. You're not an APC just because you took them bot, same as how Darius wasn't an ADC just because he went bot in pros last year. An APC would be a champion who does the same job as an ADC, but with magic damage. Kayle's the main example, but Ziggs can also fill that role. A mage, though, is still a mage. Not an APC. You are playing a fundamentally different role.
Which is fine as long as it doesn't completely screw over your team comp. If you've got a Kindred jungle, or Quinn/Vayne/Kayle top lane, then you're probably fine.
But you, especially if it's your first time on the boards, need to learn that claiming "off-meta" doesn't justify griefing.
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> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=cjHebjgb,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-08-19T04:08:38.566+0000)
>
> Yes. Technically true.
>
> But 50.8% (Plat+, global) is hardly much above 50%...
For a simple champion, that's pretty high. High elo/skill level is where the more difficult champions are supposed to thrive the most. But when a simpler champion simply has the stats to ignore the versatility of those opponents, that's a problem.
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Oh, and you're just gonna not finish the Mercurial? Hell, compared to Yasuo-- who you can play around-- Malz and Mord don't have other important CC. You never have to waste QSS on anything but their ults. But the vast majority of ADC's don't have single projectiles that matter as much as Malz's and Mord's ults do to them.
That said, Randuin's, like most purely defensive items, is lower cost than a damage item. The reason it has weaker components is because the finished item's passive is so powerful against its specified type. Adaptive Helm has similar drawbacks.
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Well, when it comes to the champs coming your way you need to either be the luckiest one trying to do the most OP comp, or be smart about it and pick a lower tier so no one is taking them.
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Yeah, pretty much.
If they're gonna make the full Blademaster take 9 because they added Camille, there's no reason there shouldn't be a bonus for having 4 pirates now that TF's in the game.
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Well you're wrong. And that's the problem with newer players. They're under the misguided assumption that the only defenses they can build are the ones that also come with offensive stats.
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Gee, if only I'd specified that in the fucking post, huh?
And his _shield_ isn't physical-only.
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So...
You don't have proof for your obviously unreasonable claim.
As usual with you.
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1.) Yes. The passive on Randuin's specifically means it does not require stacking armor to get use out of it.
2.) If and only if Yasuo is the only physical damage champion on the enemy team, then you've got an argument.
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> [{quoted}](name=WoonStruck,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=AZJnvBHm,comment-id=00010006,timestamp=2019-08-18T06:59:44.545+0000)
>
> There is such a thing as expanding a department that is lacking, or replacing staff entirely.
>
> Riot does not do this.
That's such a stupid thing to claim, actually.
Got proof they don't do this? Or are you just blindly, senselessly assuming a huge company doesn't do a basic thing like that?
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> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=36rxuilv,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-18T06:44:02.533+0000)
>
> The gap is through one of two things:
>
> 1) They play with their good allies in Flex, and their friends carry them.
>
> 2) They only play a little bit of one queue, and none of the other.
But you didn't explain the trend he's saying. You explained the reverse; bronze solo, plat flex.
Plat solo bronze flex would be that they play with their bad allies in flex because they don't care about it.
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The _only_ time it's griefing is when you are First Pick. Otherwise, it's totally fine. They're fine if they don't want to risk the enemies getting the champion.
Or more often, if you're hovering a clear troll pick, they're also fine.
It isn't griefing.
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If you're complaining about having to read the patch notes, you don't really have the knowledge to be discussing the state of things.
But then you go on to prove that with every single thing you say.
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That's the point though.
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Um. Yes.
It's kind of sad the newer players don't know that damage champs used to fit a defense item into their build. And some older players seem to have forgotten that that's even an option.
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> [{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=AeXRlyO3,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-18T03:24:18.345+0000)
>
> Meanwhile, you don't even deny that it's unhealthy. In league such counters are usually avoided, even when it comes to champion specific counters (like how Old Pantheon hard countered Old Fiora).
>
> It's clear that you don't want good design because you're justifying bad design. There is nothing more to say on this matter because you won't budge from "this is good" despite massive objective evidence against it.
That doesn't follow reasoning. I'm merely _explaining_ the situation. I have said nothing about my opinion.
As you said, I didn't deny that it's unhealthy. Nor did I make the claim that it's healthy. It just exists.
I didn't say it was good, I said that is as it should be. Because it follows how they've always done design.
However, the more complex they make characters, the less we'll see strict hard counters. It's only when an ability is so one-dimensional and powerful that we get strict hard counters. If anything, yes, Yasuo's wind wall should be changed. But no, someone should not get their advantage totally removed because their ally literally inted.
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Well, yes. That's how hard counters work.
And once again, you're ignoring the fact that he is no longer played bot enough to register on sites. And anyone who actually knows how to play ADC doesn't have trouble with him.
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Not really.
Irelia maybe. Katarina sometimes. Yasuo, now? Have you even heard of Randuin's?
Do you just have a bunch of games where you and 4 level 12 players bring no CC at all into a team with any kind of carry?
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They reduced the size of her E...
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Anyone can reduce the projectile damage of the pass-through abilities. Blowing your 24s cooldown ability to do so is silly. And without damage, no, his presence isn't major.
You keep calling it a support CDR build, but you're building a full 3000 cost damage item first, dragging your team far behind by doing so.
You're essentially removing all the early advantage of a good dueler with the excuse that he can peal a quarter as well as an actual guardian. You might as well try to defend picking Lissandra support just because she has a root and a stun, ignoring the fact she is the worst possible mage to take bot lane because that root is a self-target AoE and requires you use your escape to get in range to do it, along with a bunch of other reasons.
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> [{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=AeXRlyO3,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-08-17T16:26:51.192+0000)
>
> I'd explain how that isn't counter play. But nobody likes being told how they're wrong.
It's the only available counterplay against a counter. Similarly, Yasuo himself has _much more limited_ options against Annie, who only has one extremely short cooldown, targeted projectile. He can only even attempt to fight when he knows her stun is down.
And Leona has a very hard time engaging against Poppy because Poppy can W when she tries to E. And unlike Yasuo, who the ADC can bait, Poppy can wait the entire time for Leona to attempt to E.
I never said there was a lot of counterplay. That's what a counter _means. _ I merely pointed out what is available. Though he isn't even played bot often enough any more to show up on any of the analytic sites. Specifically because his wall is good against people with projectiles on a cooldown. Against enemies who rely on autos, it doesn't really do much if they know what they're doing.
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His E doesn't negate projectiles. It only prevents _him_ from taking the _damage_. So it won't stop Zyra, Caitlin, or Varus. And it doesn't make him immune to CC, so he'll still be in danger trying to block Morgana.
More importantly, his E only deals 100% AD from the stabby bit. If you actually want to use it for damage before the enemy can get away, you want to pop it right away. Otherwise they can just leave. And the cooldown will still be too much longer than Q to matter that you focused it.
Even if you want to troll by taking him support, you're much better off maxing Q since it can poke from much further, can slow, and can secure kills.
Yeah, technically you're right that he's a better support than he used to be, because he's a better _champion_ than he used to be. But it's still troll.
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And you can't see why Trinity shouldn't be allowed on champions who had Cleaver changed specifically for them?
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So... would you say that just because a champ with a lot of CC, say Ornn, was fed, Olaf should be useless against him?
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The Ecdysiast

Level 225 (NA)
Lifetime Upvotes