: Hmm. Well, I've not had many problems with autofill. And I don't think it's a priority for Riot to make featured game modes all that balanced. If that's your goal, I can understand why you are frustrated. All I can tell you is, I don't really care if featured game modes are balanced. I haven't even played the blood moon thingy, and I don't intend to (I think I've missed my opportunity by now anyway). I care much more about ranked; this game caters hard to competitive players who want a balanced experience in SR. That's what this game is about. Featured game modes are just icing on the cake, basically.
If you don't even play a mode, it's unsurprising you don't care about it. As someone who plays them, I do. As noted, I don't play Ranked because I view position select as broken - and as such, unless and until Autofill's removed, I don't care about any other aspect of Ranked.
: I am lobbying for a _real _"matchmaking algorithm". Riots autofill system mainly orders 2 roles. The algorithm I am suggesting, orders all 5 roles. I don't know if I explained that correctly, so here is an example: Search 1st choice. X amount of time. Search 1st + 2nd choice. X amount of time. (I think Riot stops here) Search 1st + 2nd + 3rd choice. X amount of time. Etc. until all 5 roles are qued. I think this algorithm is a better middle ground. It leans more towards "old Riot" ideas though. The pessimist in me says neither of us are correct. We are stuck with autofill forever. Thanks for sharing though. You gave me some interesting ideas.
Ah, a serious theorycrafter. Actually I've been tinkering with some ideas of my own on topics like these, and this seems like a cue to post what I have so far on one of them: the support/autofill problems. Perhaps you might critique it. It's a bit rough since it's just from my notes file, but you'll probably get the idea. It starts with the UI grid that lets users specify how much they want to play which role (the abbreviations for positions represent the "default" position users customize from,) and then starts explaining how it all works in theory. Disclaimer: I'm a programmer, so this comes strongly from that perspective, and this is holistic, encompassing position selection, small but productive rewards to promote queue health, and theories on how queue health works or can work: Grid 6 high, 3-5 wide (4 columns on row 1, 5 columns on row 6, 3 on rows 2-5) 1- - - - 1st pick, strongly prefered, system will first try to create balanced teams using this row only 2- - - 2nd pick, only used if adequately balanced teams couldn't be formed with everyone using roles from 1st pick 3- - - 4- - - 5Fi - - 5th pick, least desired, system tries these only if all previous rows failed to produce balanced teams -To Jg Mi Su Ca Not willing to play or implied not to matter if Autofill isn't in this row, since Autofill enables all roles Each position is an icon that opens a dropdown box when clicked, with the 6 possible icons; selecting one also removes that icon from its previous position on the grid If one or more of the topmost rows is empty (as in the default) the system automatically treats the first occupied row as if it were the first row (e.g. the default is to fill with all explicit roles in the unused row to be moved up based on player preference, possibly putting fill in the place of the prefered role; if fill is left in row 5 as default, they will usually get their prefered role(s) but will fill if absolutely necessary to make a team, which is an excellent default for queue health) Letting people clearly express their willingness to play roles should improve queue times due to greatly reducing dodges compared to just forcing people to autofill even if they're sure to dodge all autofilled games Dodges increase queue times both by failing game creations and by taking dodgers out of the queue for potentially long periods, further reducing the material the matchmaker has to try to create balanced teams with; thus, involuntary autofill is inherently a bad thing and not useful as a solution; it must be voluntary to work Number of matchmaking passes (how many rows had to be enabled to form balanced teams) will be a very useful figure for this system, both average and % of made games with each number of passes; separating made games by dodged vs. not dodged may also be useful data Reward queueing with Support allowed (regardless of whether it's assigned) with a slightly higher IP scale; this will automatically reward Autofill in kind; the higher Support is on the list, the higher the scale reward should be, possibly only rewarding for Support in row 1 Because of Support's position relative to queue health it probably isn't necessary to reward having many positions allowed high in the position list, but a smaller, almost unnoticeable additional reward might improve queue health Possibly reward playing when actually assigned Support with higher LP gains/lower LP loss, but only if no one reports you that game, possibly even only if someone not in your premade honors you (Supports in 5 man premades do not really need the benefit) IP scale rewards should probably also be conditional on not being reported in that game and possibly further scaled by the number of non-premade players who honor you, such that being honored by all 9 other players while queueing solo gives the greatest bonus IP scale bonuses (and possibly role-related LP adjustments) should probably not be shown in the endgame screen and possibly aggregated to a daily award to avoid people knowing too much about their being reported/honored; the number shown in the endgame screen and immediately awarded should be the base Support IP bonuses could potentially be applied to even Normal Blind Pick with positive effects on queue health, even though Support is less clear there; Autofill obviously doesn't meaningfully apply Why does Autofill still need to be an explicit option in this system? To make it easier to move it around, encourage selecting it, and remind everyone on a fairly frequent basis that Autofilling is encouraged, helps boost queue health, and cuts their personal queue times; it's psychological While the system is first and foremost for Summoner's Rift Ranked and Normal Draft Pick, once it's proven in those roles I think partially expanding it to SR Blind Pick and maybe even SR bot games with appropriate modifications could improve the game. Especially for bot games, adding "Off-Meta" and/or "Roamer" options, perhaps more, while giving the matchmaker much more flexibility in assigning teams compared to Ranked, could help reduce dodges and make people happier; perhaps even just keeping the normal role selections and adding flags for whether you intend to play substantial off-meta and/or want to play with other people who are playing off-meta; the queue times on these queues are already very low with huge player bases (which affords much greater flexibility in adjusting who joins who without significantly increasing them,) but minimizing dodges and teaming compatible players are still useful goals to improve player quality-of-life Adapting the system to Twisted Treeline should perhaps be eventually looked at as well; it's also possible some modified form of it could be applied to modes like ARAM in ways that boost queue health; all likely areas for expansion should be kept in mind where practical when implementing the system
: > and the system needs to be revamped to allow players to express exactly which roles they're willing to play at any given time. Old Riot wanted players to play every role. Autofill seems like middle ground. Between, old Riot and players such as yourself. The momentum is towards you!
Hopefully. The ideal as I see it is for people who want to play whichever role gets them the fastest queue... OR PLAYERS WHO WANT TO PLAY ANY OF FOUR OR THREE SPECIFIC ROLES TO GET A FASTER QUEUE... should be able to do so. Those who will play a lot of positions get fast queue times, those who want to wait... wait. If someone can play everything but jungle well (e.g. they're a veteran laner but don't get rotating mobs,) they should be able to do that. Everybody will win if they're allowed to. If someone can only play top well, hey, let them do that at the price of the queue time it gets them. I'd rather have a teammate who knows their position or is at least well-prepared to play the positions they signed up for because they signed up for them.
: Well, I don't disagree with your attitude or your points. However, being bad isn't punishable. Being stupid isn't punishable. I, too, prefer to have teammates that both a) know the best way to win and b) work to employ that strategy to the best of their ability. Unfortunately, that just isn't how the world works. Some people are tough to deal with. Frankly, that's what separates the good players from the bad ones. You can't punish bronzies for not knowing how to play around the baron pit. If they knew that, they probably wouldn't be in bronze. You can advise them, kindly, and hope that your comments help lead your team to victory. But you can't get mad if they don't have the skills to win the game. My experience has been that there are two key ideas that help me have fun in League: 1) Remember that it is just a game. It's fine to tryhard, it's fine to practice, and it's fine to want to win. But at the end of the day, you have to remember that it's just a game, and it doesn't kill you to lose one now and again. Just try to learn something every game and keep improving. 2) The better you get, the more fun it is. Once you get to a skill level that actually suits you, you have more fun because every game is an engaging challenge. I got promoted to my record high of gold 2 last week, and I've never had more fun with the game. I know I'm getting close to my "true elo," as people call it, because my games are a tug of war. I tend to suck pretty bad in lane, but my late game decision making is really good, and that's starting to bear out very consistently in my games. I win a lot from behind lately, which is fun. But I'm rambling. The point is, you still have to focus on your own game. It isn't reportable for someone to be bad; you just have to keep your MMR high enough to avoid those people. It's a drawback of social gaming. This isn't unique to LoL, and it won't go away with policy or new ideas. It's just the price of social gaming. EDIT: Part of the problem is that "trying" looks really different to lots of different people. I'm sure that to diamond players, I look like I'm playing one-handed. I can't help that. This is as good as it gets for me.
While I can imagine league ranks working in Ranked, they don't seem to in featured modes, probably either because the MMR there is seeding from or directly your normal MMR (which doesn't really apply with substantial different rules that punish KDA focus far more,) or because it's not kept or doesn't have enough samples. I'm pretty sure it's impossible to get to a point where you're consistently matched with similar teammates in them. And high MMR probably actually works against you in them, due to the player base and it balancing high MMR players against low ones to try to create "even" teams "quickly." I see really wide player skill swings in my teammates from one game to the next, and sometimes even among different players within a single team - from gold to bronze 5 and back. Another point is that virtually every BM loss I have is pretty clearly traceable to someone *repeatedly* refusing to help take Heralds. When it's that decisive... it gets old fast. Also, for reference, I don't play draft modes with position select because I think position select is not constructive with mandatory autofill. I won't play those modes until autofill is made strictly voluntary because I don't want to deal with the environment it creates re: autofill and dodging; I consider autofill to create bigger problems than it solves, and will wait as long as I need to to play a decent game, or not play at all. Blind is (currently) far preferable to ranked or draft pick IMO.
Rioter Comments
: > Today I was auto filled twice. This is the first time I've been auto filled more than once in one day. It's riduculous. How about Riot gets rid of auto fill? How about you suck it up and play the other 3/5 roles for 2 games a day? No way man. People who dodge que need to be taught a lesson. How dare they dodge a game I was in.
Agreed. I won't play modes with position select because of autofill. Either Riot removes it, or queues will be that much longer, because some people will dodge, and others like me will just play other game modes entirely, leaving less people in the queue at all. I see no point in position select if it's largely meaningless. Mandatory autofill does not work. It causes more problems than it solves. It needs to be removed, and the system needs to be revamped to allow players to express exactly which roles they're willing to play at any given time.
: Just letting you know, if you fill or support then it'll turn off autofill for your next game. They have announced a month or so ago that they will not do away with autofill until support is played enough to make the queue times reasonable for non supports, and the option of excluding a particular role has already been tested and failed so it will not be implemented. The best you could probably hope for as far as autofill changes go is maybe an increase to the amount of time a queue has to go over to trigger the autofill. Might as well just learn to live with the current system; and besides, having to play the occasional fill or support game to turn off autofill really is not that bad, but I am a support main so I am a bit biased.
I have heard multiple people claiming the "turn off autofill" thing sometimes doesn't work, e.g. they literally got autofilled 2 games in a row.
: New free champion rotation: Braum, Diana, Jhin and more!
Just gonna point out they did finally address the Support thing in the State of the Game post, albeit rather poorly and very very very very very very VERY slowly. They still have their heads buried deep in the sand on Autofill, though... and I ain't playing Draft Pick modes until it goes away because it destroys the point of having position selects. Overall, still very disappointed.
: just saying can you stop commenting this on every free champ rotation post
Can Riot actually address the multiple points raised so I don't need to? I didn't write it for fun. I wrote it to try to get some problems solved in a constructive way.
: I agree with the bs autofill thingie, I usually do draft picks just to get the lane I wanted. I mean whats the point of doing draft, when you can't get the lane you wanted, and because of that, I have been accidently feeding since I get autofilled in to support. Blitz has almost always been banned and thats the support I have the most experiance with so if I get support and no blitz, its like we've lost the game. I usualy got top/jg and knowing that i can't get the lanes I am asking for just fkes me up real hard. And when you add the auto-fill thing they gotta make sure that the supports are all aready banned. As you said, we can't buy champs for a role we dont want to play, so they have to have the extra supports if they want to keep this autofill ish running. Its kinda bullshit and real gamers such as rossboomsocks and others are having bad games because of this auto-fill ish. this is really annoying. well said btw
Naymliss (NA)
: My point still stands. "At least some of the Supports should also be made available in Ranked " No. The whole point of ranked is to play to win and to play to the best of your ability. If you play a champion you are new to in ranked, it essentially would be a throw on your end. "Remember, the rotation applies to Normal Draft Pick, where people practice and learn for Ranked" People play blind pick to practice and learn for ranked. The only difference is the ban/ pick phase, which isn't really something that needs practicing, as a bunch of randoms don't really have much synergy as is. The issue, if you could call it one, isn't the free rotation, it's the role in general. Right now the role only appeals to certain people, and it is a smaller group than other positions appeal to. We need to change this if we want more people to play the role. However, I believe it is fine as it is. If people really hate the fact they got autofilled, they can dodge. No big deal.
And if you get filled to Support or some other role and have no champions suited to it? What then? And someone doesn't have to own a champ to have played it a fair bit when it was on rot before. Why would you practice in Blind when Draft is closer to real Ranked in gameplay and still doesn't affect your rank? Seriously, your point makes no sense. And dodges raise queue times.
Naymliss (NA)
: How the hell would that help people who play ranked?
Read the post before commenting and you'd know. It's literally just a few lines above your comment at the moment.
: New free champion rotation: Akali, Lucian, Viktor and more!
**So how many weeks has it been since we've seen much of anything on the Support-being-underplayed and poorly-played issue?** {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}} I remain **very disappointed** we're back to no additional Supports; only 2 just **isn't enough** for good team compositions with the playerbase League of Legends has, _**ESPECIALLY WITH AUTOFILL ENABLED**_. While Brand and Blitzcrank were bad picks for the list, the rest of the list was pretty solid and made for better games IMO, especially {{champion:37}}Sona and {{champion:44}}Taric which are relatively new-player-friendly and _don't lend themselves to stealing CS_. While a full extra 10 isn't necessary, I think _**at least** 2-6 extra slots_ to provide a better variety of Supports and account for the **ever-increasing number of champions** is a really good idea that should be implemented **permanently**. I think simply fixing the # of champions in the free rotation at **10% rounding up** of the number of **total champions** would strike a good balance going forward. 14 for now with 6 of the slots dedicated to serious Supports, rising to 15 sometime in 2017-2018 when champion 141 comes out. Probably keeping the % of Support slots roughly proportional... around 3/8ths perhaps? Attention should probably be given to ensuring there's always a **tank** Support, a **heal**-ally Support, a strong **shield**-ally Support, and a **Crowd Control**-heavy Support (it usually won't take 4 champions to fill all these slots since there's a fair bit of overlap, such as with Morgana being strong in both CC and shielding,) and that at least 2 of the 6 Support champions are highly **new-player-friendly**. I believe this will strike a fair balance between consistently giving users _**enough options**_ to _play_ Support when they get **Autofilled** while _still selling Support champions_ to people who grow attached to them. That's the main reason I'm not suggesting keeping the rotation at 10 Supports long-term (though I'd be OK with that) - there aren't really enough Support champions to fulfill quite so many without severely devaluing buying any of them. That is something however that needs addressing itself - there need to be **more good Support champions** in the **next few** new champions released! I do definitely want to see the rotation **permanently raised** _at least_ a **little** from the previous 10 total to fit a **greater variety** of Support champions in and improve the average team comp. Either that or Autofill absolutely **needs to be turned off**, permanently, because attempting to force people to play Support when they'll just dodge because they have no good options handy and have no desire to spend IP/RP on buying any when they don't want to play Support in the first place is **CLEARLY NOT WORKING** and only further increases queue times due to dodges. The bottom-line is Riot needs to **encourage people to want to play Support**, not try to force them to. Autofill **does not work**, especially not without a lot of free Supports. Either the number of free Supports must be raised again or Autofill has **GOT** to go. At least some of the Supports should also be made available in Ranked unless Autofill is removed, too. **Sooner or later Riot's going to have to address these issues,** even though they decided to largely ignore it through the end of 2016. Remember, the rotation applies to Normal Draft Pick, where people practice and learn for Ranked, and which has assigned positions and Autofill.
: why do we get {{champion:44}} almost every rotation? he's not easy for begginers to play and nobody actually wants to play {{champion:44}} or have {{champion:44}} on their team. so why is he on rotation every single goddam time???
I didn't know "_This side toward enemy_" made a champion hard to play. His kit is fairly obvious and easy to play. The only hard parts are actually milking his ult and his teamfight potential. In 2v2s you can pretty much flail wildly in the general direction of the enemy and do alright.
: Actually, Sion is (statistically speaking) a very strong support champion. According to champion.gg he has had the highest support winrate for several patches now :)
He's also one of the most unpopular support champions, probably because very few people can actually play him well as Support, and most of those are in Master+ (which in turn leads to the few who do play him Support having much higher winrates doing it than the average player would.) The rotation should be oriented towards the bot and unranked normals games it can be used in, not how a champ plays in Ranked where the rotation cannot be used.
: Upvote every chance I get
: New free champion rotation: Corki, Kindred, Lissandra and more!
{{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}} I remain **very disappointed** we're back to no additional Supports; only 2 just **isn't enough** for good team compositions with the playerbase League of Legends has, _**ESPECIALLY WITH AUTOFILL ENABLED**_. While Brand and Blitzcrank were bad picks for the list, the rest of the list was pretty solid and made for better games IMO, especially {{champion:37}}Sona and {{champion:44}}Taric which are relatively new-player-friendly and _don't lend themselves to stealing CS_. While a full extra 10 isn't necessary, I think _**at least** 2-6 extra slots_ to provide a better variety of Supports and account for the **ever-increasing number of champions** is a really good idea that should be implemented **permanently**. I think simply fixing the # of champions in the free rotation at **10% rounding up** of the number of **total champions** would strike a good balance going forward. 14 for now with 6 of the slots dedicated to serious Supports, rising to 15 sometime in 2017-2018 when champion 141 comes out. Probably keeping the % of Support slots roughly proportional... around 3/8ths perhaps? Attention should probably be given to ensuring there's always a **tank** Support, a **heal**-ally Support, a strong **shield**-ally Support, and a **Crowd Control**-heavy Support (it usually won't take 4 champions to fill all these slots since there's a fair bit of overlap, such as with Morgana being strong in both CC and shielding,) and that at least 2 of the 6 Support champions are highly **new-player-friendly**. I believe this will strike a fair balance between consistently giving users _**enough options**_ to _play_ Support when they get **Autofilled** while _still selling Support champions_ to people who grow attached to them. That's the main reason I'm not suggesting keeping the rotation at 10 Supports long-term (though I'd be OK with that) - there aren't really enough Support champions to fulfill quite so many without severely devaluing buying any of them. That is something however that needs addressing itself - there need to be **more good Support champions** in the **next few** new champions released! I do definitely want to see the rotation **permanently raised** _at least_ a **little** from the previous 10 total to fit a **greater variety** of Support champions in and improve the average team comp. Either that or Autofill absolutely **needs to be turned off**, permanently, because attempting to force people to play Support when they'll just dodge because they have no good options handy and have no desire to spend IP/RP on buying any when they don't want to play Support in the first place is **CLEARLY NOT WORKING** and only further increases queue times due to dodges. The bottom-line is Riot needs to **encourage people to want to play Support**, not try to force them to. Autofill **does not work**, especially not without a lot of free Supports. Either the number of free Supports must be raised again or Autofill has **GOT** to go. At least some of the Supports should also be made available in Ranked unless Autofill is removed, too. **Sooner or later Riot's going to have to address these issues,** even though they decided to largely ignore it through the end of 2016. Side note: While Janna and Taric are good picks, and Zilean is Support-tagged, Zil is still mostly a midlaner in practice; he was used exclusively as such at Worlds. Shen's presence is also a good thing in this particular rotation, making it better than the last several. However, the underlying issues, especially autofill and lack of communication on Support in general, remain unaddressed.
: Have you ever heard of support MF and support Sion? If so that adds more supports.{{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
I brought up MF in the post. She's extremely situational and more often misused, so she doesn't count as a Support, especially since Zyra isn't in this one. And Sion is designed to stack off kills... it's likely easier to make a case for TF Support.
grarrrg (NA)
: Poppy is partially my bad, but not entirely my fault. Load up the game. Go to the Store>Champs. Click the "Assassin" box. See who appears. (this -might- be an inside joke and not just a bug) As for Fiddlesticks, he's still tagged it, primary or not. Syndra is also tagged Support, while Brand is not, despite the fact that Syndra is not considered a support while Brand routinely is.
That just suggests another area for improvement for Riot, doesn't it? Getting the tags to make more sense? If they're choosing who is Support in contradiction to their own tags, perhaps it's time to update those tags at the same time they include them in a rot as something they're not tagged as...
: Blitz is only a support because of the hook, remove that and he would be played top or jungle
Actually Blitz's qualification as a Support has nothing to do with why I say he was a bad choice. That was purely based on the fact that people get tired of him real fast _because_ his hook is so binary and play-breaking. That's not really the kind of Support you want on rot for 4 weeks, so he was a poor choice for a 4 week list, and he'd be a poor choice for frequent inclusion in general. I think it would be best if he were included in the Support part of the rotation, but considerably less often than champions like Sona and Taric. I do consider him a legit Support - just a very special kind shared mostly just with Thresh, and even Thresh is... not so easy to become tired of facing. Blitz has reasons he gets banned so much.
: Are you just going to post the same thing every week? Also, if blitz isn't great as a support. I'm not sure what role you think he is.
It's actually not the same thing. I update it as appropriate. And until the issue it's addressing is in turn addressed by Riot... yes, I fully think it NEEDS to be posted in reply to every rotation that continues to fail without Riot so much as acknowledging how they feel the test went. I want, at a minimum, an "OK, that failed, here's what we're going to try next." I'd be happier with a "OK, that accomplished something good, so here's some more of it modified by what we learned, and we're also going to continue to improve peoples' average desire to play Support in other ways as well." The silence is not cool.
: Almost no one wants {{champion:157}} free, those that hate him will ban him every game, those that play him will have him banned every game, And blind pick, LOL
Actually, I don't mind it at all, and I almost never ban him outside One for All. Why? Because most Yasuos are terrible and thus make for easy wins. There are far more kids who don't know how to play him maining him anyways than the few actually good Yas mains. I'm much more concerned about Teemo and Lux, who can do a lot more damage in the hands of an unskilled player, and were on rot at the same time last week. Generally speaking, Yas and Riven are only much of a problem if they're A. on your team (because bad ones feed hard) or B. you don't mute them when they start flaming. Now, Teemo? Teemo is Satan. Teemo has well-earned his reputation as Satan. Yasuo is mostly just an ill-mannered punk. You dunk him and move on.
: New free champion rotation: Blitzcrank, Gnar, Lee Sin and more!
{{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}} I remain **very disappointed** we're back to no additional Supports; only 2 just **isn't enough** for good team compositions with the playerbase League of Legends has, _**ESPECIALLY WITH AUTOFILL ENABLED**_. While Brand and Blitzcrank were bad picks for the list, the rest of the list was pretty solid and made for better games IMO, especially {{champion:37}}Sona and {{champion:44}}Taric which are relatively new-player-friendly and _don't lend themselves to stealing CS_. While a full extra 10 isn't necessary, I think _**at least** 2-6 extra slots_ to provide a better variety of Supports and account for the **ever-increasing number of champions** is a really good idea that should be implemented **permanently**. I think simply fixing the # of champions in the free rotation at **10% rounding up** of the number of **total champions** would strike a good balance going forward. 14 for now with 6 of the slots dedicated to serious Supports, rising to 15 sometime in 2017-2018 when champion 141 comes out. Probably keeping the % of Support slots roughly proportional... around 3/8ths perhaps? Attention should probably be given to ensuring there's always a **tank** Support, a **heal**-ally Support, a strong **shield**-ally Support, and a **Crowd Control**-heavy Support (it usually won't take 4 champions to fill all these slots since there's a fair bit of overlap, such as with Morgana being strong in both CC and shielding,) and that at least 2 of the 6 Support champions are highly **new-player-friendly**. I believe this will strike a fair balance between consistently giving users _**enough options**_ to _play_ Support when they get **Autofilled** while _still selling Support champions_ to people who grow attached to them. That's the main reason I'm not suggesting keeping the rotation at 10 Supports long-term (though I'd be OK with that) - there aren't really enough Support champions to fulfill quite so many without severely devaluing buying any of them. That is something however that needs addressing itself - there need to be **more good Support champions** in the **next few** new champions released! I do definitely want to see the rotation **permanently raised** _at least_ a **little** from the previous 10 total to fit a **greater variety** of Support champions in and improve the average team comp. Either that or Autofill absolutely **needs to be turned off**, permanently, because attempting to force people to play Support when they'll just dodge because they have no good options handy and have no desire to spend IP/RP on buying any when they don't want to play Support in the first place is **CLEARLY NOT WORKING** and only further increases queue times due to dodges. The bottom-line is Riot needs to **encourage people to want to play Support**, not try to force them to. Autofill **does not work**, especially not without a lot of free Supports. Either the number of free Supports must be raised again or Autofill has **GOT** to go. At least some of the Supports should also be made available in Ranked unless Autofill is removed, too. **Sooner or later Riot's going to have to address these issues,** even though they decided to largely ignore it through the end of 2016. I will also note **there is only a single Support-tagged champ in this rotation!** Granted, it's one of the best - Sona, but regardless of which of Blitz, Gnar or Sej they're trying to count as the 2nd, they're not all that great as a Support in the hands of new players. Or are we calling MF an official all-around Support now, even with Zyra not in? Seriously? This is a particularly poorly-composed rotation and I encourage everyone to downvote the [rotation thread, visible for voting here](http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/riot-official?sort_type=recent) and upvote this reply so we can get some improvement in the future.
: Only one support this week?
{{champion:99}} Lux and {{champion:223}} Tahm Kench. Check the role tags. He's more of a Support than Brand ever will be. Still needs more Supports though.
: Are you high? First the free rotation champions aren't in ranked to be auto filled and who even play normal draft(if you want to wait longer to have a slight chance of getting your role, sure go for it...) and riot can't encourage people to play support BECAUSE IT IS ONE OF THE MOST BORING THINGs TO DO IN THE GAME... yeah sure some need skill e.g. thresh, and supports are crucial but the thing is we don't want to play supports... and the 10 champions is pretty fine and Riot really doesn't want to change that either because its for a taste for a chamotion and considering they make their money of these champions if people happen to buy them, giving a different 10 free is pretty generous... there aren't many free things in this world because if your give free stuff, people ask for more... no there doesn't need to be more supports, no free champs don't need to rise, and autofill... yeah auto fill screw that... but you can't encourage people to play support by making 60% of it supports... I see at least 3 supports here and wasn't there that month thing for supports... yeah... I mean if you can make supportsm be crucial to the game, maybe but you know how middle used to be meta and people played mid and now jg is meta and people play jg... probs the only way to raise support players is to make it meta... (btw you are talking about player friendly like they down even know how the game works... new players probs don't even know what supp is until lvl 20 and bronze players can chuck out abilties...) although autofill is annoying, Riot is probably doing what they think will help us the most... because you know what you'll do when they remove autofill... you'll either complain about longer queue times or whatever the pros/youtubers complaint about...
No, are you? Normal Draft is a thing, and you don't seem to have much constructive to say. You also seem to have a very narrow view of what is a very large and diverse playerbase.
: New free champion rotation: Camille, Draven, Kha'Zix and more!
{{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}} I remain **very disappointed** we're back to no additional Supports; only 2 just **isn't enough** for good team compositions with the playerbase League of Legends has, _**ESPECIALLY WITH AUTOFILL ENABLED**_. While Brand and Blitzcrank were bad picks for the list, the rest of the list was pretty solid and made for better games IMO, especially {{champion:37}}Sona and {{champion:44}}Taric which are relatively new-player-friendly and _don't lend themselves to stealing CS_. While a full extra 10 isn't necessary, I think _**at least** 2-6 extra slots_ to provide a better variety of Supports and account for the **ever-increasing number of champions** is a really good idea that should be implemented **permanently**. I think simply fixing the # of champions in the free rotation at **10% rounding up** of the number of **total champions** would strike a good balance going forward. 14 for now with 6 of the slots dedicated to serious Supports, rising to 15 sometime in 2017-2018 when champion 141 comes out. Probably keeping the % of Support slots roughly proportional... around 3/8ths perhaps? Attention should probably be given to ensuring there's always a **tank** Support, a **heal**-ally Support, a strong **shield**-ally Support, and a **Crowd Control**-heavy Support (it usually won't take 4 champions to fill all these slots since there's a fair bit of overlap, such as with Morgana being strong in both CC and shielding,) and that at least 2 of the 6 Support champions are highly **new-player-friendly**. I believe this will strike a fair balance between consistently giving users _**enough options**_ to _play_ Support when they get **Autofilled** while _still selling Support champions_ to people who grow attached to them. That's the main reason I'm not suggesting keeping the rotation at 10 Supports long-term (though I'd be OK with that) - there aren't really enough Support champions to fulfill quite so many without severely devaluing buying any of them. That is something however that needs addressing itself - there need to be **more good Support champions** in the **next few** new champions released! I do definitely want to see the rotation **permanently raised** _at least_ a **little** from the previous 10 total to fit a **greater variety** of Support champions in and improve the average team comp. Either that or Autofill absolutely **needs to be turned off**, permanently, because attempting to force people to play Support when they'll just dodge because they have no good options handy and have no desire to spend IP/RP on buying any when they don't want to play Support in the first place is **CLEARLY NOT WORKING** and only further increases queue times due to dodges. The bottom-line is Riot needs to **encourage people to want to play Support**, not try to force them to. Autofill **does not work**, especially not without a lot of free Supports. Either the number of free Supports must be raised again or Autofill has **GOT** to go. At least some of the Supports should also be made available in Ranked unless Autofill is removed, too. **Sooner or later Riot's going to have to address these issues.** _Will it be this year?_ At least to just start _talking_ openly about the details of the next step?
: I just..... I don't..... It's...... ..... ..What? ...Why? ...
{{champion:136}} Because I'm a Star Dragon, that's _why_.
: ENOUGH WITH POROS.....
{{champion:201}} You need some time in the Poro Love Re-education Camp, comrade. Don't worry, you will soon love them as much as we do.
Keywee (NA)
: I'm not official but I'm going to be trying to come up with recipes for all the other 4.
Excellent, and thank you!
: Ah, what? Bluzzard customer service is widely known to be one of the best in the industry, and is easily one of the best qualities of the company
Are you joking? That's the line the fanboys on their own forums/etc put out, but in the real world, you find things more like these: http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=7773/blizzard-customer-service-is-horrible http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=172952/blizzard-customer-service-is-more-of-a-joke-than-a-tauren-marine Not to mention my own personal experiences with their customer service and general treatment of consumers which have been so bad I actively and completely boycott the company. Their handling of Diablo 2 in the past decade, particularly for a game still sold at a fairly high price, has been nothing short of horrible and inexcusable given how cheap it would be to provide decent service. I have various issues with Warcraft III and the directions they've taken with their modern products as well. Talk to any community rep completely off-the-record and I doubt you'll get any sort of positive view on them either. It's a very thankless, frustrating job that substantially amounts to acting as a spin doctor. I don't know if they're paying you for that post, but if they aren't, they should be. I have extensive experience on which my previous post is based, and I don't have a single person I know offline who thinks Blizzard is a good company. Not even one. _Not even one._
Kadera (NA)
: will you do recipes for the other kinds of porosnax as well? i'd love to make all of them!{{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
We gotta catch 'em all.
: Do I have to use a poro in the recipe as well? (Was that joke to dark?)
Yes. Ones with the Dragonslayer Braum moustache produce the best flavor. Star Guardian poros are an acceptable substitute. Whatever you do, don't use Battlecast poros or Shadow Isle poros... they have quite foul tastes. And yes.
Aeszarck (NA)
: Looks good! Thanks Kantayams! Those cookies in the top picture look delicious too; will we get a recipe for them? :D EDIT: I misspelled delicious, sorry :<
They seriously NEED to provide more recipes for the various snax. The king might get bored with just one flavor! Official recipes for all 4 in-game special snax would be wonderful.
: They might also be calling {{champion:34}} the second support, which is more supportish than {{champion:143}} , but it's still the point. Get it together Rito.{{item:3070}}
For anyone who has not had the pleasure of dealing with an Anivia troll, or even just an Anivia that doesn't have a good grasp of how to use walls properly, [I have a really good link for you that you should click right now and watch in full.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdv2FY2NMfE) Seriously, this is not going to be a good week unless you have a Support player in your premade. It's dangerous to go alone, find one and stick to him/her for the sake of your sanity. {{champion:34}}[WALL!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdv2FY2NMfE) {{champion:34}}[WALL!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdv2FY2NMfE) {{champion:34}}[WALL!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdv2FY2NMfE)
jåv (NA)
: Hi Riot employees, I'm an NA Summoner and the rotation hasn't changed for me. I live in Maui, Hawaii. Please fix, Thank you
How is it we suddenly have multiple people thinking the post doesn't go up until the rotation does?
: What's a Warwick?
It's a dog who's up for a rework. Wait, why are they putting him in the rotation shortly BEFORE his rework? That does not make sense and they could have put a better Support in to make up for Autofill instead. Wasted opportunity.
: PLZ HAVE LUCIAN 1. IM ABOUT TO GET OVERWATCH AND I WANNA PLAY HIM ATLEAST ONCE************{{champion:236}} {{item:3070}}
I have a great idea for you. How about you stick with the better game and don't support a company that treats its customers and over half of its employees like they're something you'd find signs about cleaning up in parks? Seriously, Blizzard is horrible. They abuse their employees and cheat their customers. Look no further than how far Diablo II's support has deteriorated and how most of their community reps are treated for an example, but there are plenty of others. You're better off with Riot and League of Legends. Also, Lucian is mediocre currently anyways. They're going to buff him soon, you should wait for that to try him. It'll be worth it. Trust me. Riot's a company that actually cares about trying to balance things, whereas Blizzard has a proven track record of not being able to balance anything without 5 years of patches after the featureset is completely finalized.
: These aren't live yet?
They go live around midnight or in the early morning. They let people know what's going up around 6-18 hours early so it doesn't catch people completely off-guard as they're queueing for a game.
: whys garen even f2p hes nearly always free
{{champion:86}} **Dreadknight Garen** has a [free Twitter promotion](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/202083184-Promotional-Content-Free-Swag-) and should be _**removed from the free rotation**_ permanently, or _at least_ **as long as that promotion exists**. He is also **in the level 1-6 rotation**, which further makes it _unreasonable_ to have him in the _main_ one. He was _selected **twice**_ in 2016 so far - that's too much for a champion that's already **overly available**, _even to new players_, anyways. He's rated 5 of 10 Difficulty, too - why should a champion Riot rates as **NOT** low Difficulty be so _over-represented_? Shouldn't that be saved for **Difficulty 1-3 champions**? {{champion:12}} **Unchained Alistar**'s YouTube promotion is **broken** and **unadvertised** and he should be **added back into the free rotation**, or his promotion should be **fixed** and **put back** on the promotions page. New players should not have to [ticket Blitzcrank Bot](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/requests/new) for a promotion many who've seen the promotions page still don't even know they can get. {{champion:18}} **Riot Girl Tristana**'s Facebook promotion works and she's not in the rotation, as it should be. _**The other 2 need to be fixed to match.**_ {{champion:86}} _**DEMACIA!**_
: {{champion:86}} on the free champion rotation? Really {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}
{{champion:86}} **Dreadknight Garen** has a [free Twitter promotion](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/202083184-Promotional-Content-Free-Swag-) and should be _**removed from the free rotation**_ permanently, or _at least_ **as long as that promotion exists**. He is also **in the level 1-6 rotation**, which further makes it _unreasonable_ to have him in the _main_ one. He was _selected **twice**_ in 2016 so far - that's too much for a champion that's already **overly available**, _even to new players_, anyways. {{champion:12}} **Unchained Alistar**'s YouTube promotion is **broken** and **unadvertised** and he should be **added back into the free rotation**, or his promotion should be **fixed** and **put back** on the promotions page. New players should not have to [ticket Blitzcrank Bot](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/requests/new) for a promotion many who've seen the promotions page still don't even know they can get. {{champion:18}} **Riot Girl Tristana**'s Facebook promotion works and she's not in the rotation, as it should be. _**The other 2 need to be fixed to match.**_
: They might also be calling {{champion:34}} the second support, which is more supportish than {{champion:143}} , but it's still the point. Get it together Rito.{{item:3070}}
While Aniv is support-tagged and does at least have a stun, the wall tends to make her more of a troll than anything else, so horrible to spend a "Support" slot in the rotation on, since not many people will be able to play her as a proper Support. So yes, agreed, Rito really dropped the ball this rotation. Doubly so with autofill on since now autofills with no support champs can either go Nami, who can be unpleasant to play, or full damage support and probably cripple the ADC stealing CS, or troll support and probably screw their team over with badly placed walls. Oh, or they can dodge and make queue times longer, defeating the point of autofill. Which is probably the best option under the circumstances. Involuntary autofill has got to go.
: wheres the 2nd support? all i see is nami
They're probably calling Zyra the 2nd support despite her total lack of heals/shields or tankyness. Which is exactly why there need to be more than 2 Supports in the rotation... anyone can damage/zone-support, those slots need to either need to be reserved for more Support-specific champs or there need to be more Support slots.
: New free champion rotation: Anivia, Garen, Jinx and more!
{{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}} I remain **very disappointed** we're back to no additional Supports; only 2 just **isn't enough** for good team compositions with the playerbase League of Legends has, _**ESPECIALLY WITH AUTOFILL ENABLED**_. While Brand and Blitzcrank were bad picks for the list, the rest of the list was pretty solid and made for better games IMO, especially {{champion:37}}Sona and {{champion:44}}Taric which are relatively new-player-friendly and _don't lend themselves to stealing CS_. While a full extra 10 isn't necessary, I think _**at least** 2-6 extra slots_ to provide a better variety of Supports and account for the **ever-increasing number of champions** is a really good idea that should be implemented **permanently**. I think simply fixing the # of champions in the free rotation at **10% rounding up** of the number of **total champions** would strike a good balance going forward. 14 for now with 6 of the slots dedicated to serious Supports, rising to 15 sometime in 2017-2018 when champion 141 comes out. Probably keeping the % of Support slots roughly proportional... around 3/8ths perhaps? Attention should probably be given to ensuring there's always a **tank** Support, a **heal**-ally Support, a strong **shield**-ally Support, and a **Crowd Control**-heavy Support (it usually won't take 4 champions to fill all these slots since there's a fair bit of overlap, such as with Morgana being strong in both CC and shielding,) and that at least 2 of the 6 Support champions are highly **new-player-friendly**. I believe this will strike a fair balance between consistently giving users _**enough options**_ to _play_ Support when they get **Autofilled** while _still selling Support champions_ to people who grow attached to them. That's the main reason I'm not suggesting keeping the rotation at 10 Supports long-term (though I'd be OK with that) - there aren't really enough Support champions to fulfill quite so many without severely devaluing buying any of them. That is something however that needs addressing itself - there need to be **more good Support champions** in the **next few** new champions released! I do definitely want to see the rotation **permanently raised** _at least_ a **little** from the previous 10 total to fit a **greater variety** of Support champions in and improve the average team comp. Either that or Autofill absolutely **needs to be turned off**, permanently, because attempting to force people to play Support when they'll just dodge because they have no good options handy and have no desire to spend IP/RP on buying any when they don't want to play Support in the first place is **CLEARLY NOT WORKING** and only further increases queue times due to dodges. The bottom-line is Riot needs to **encourage people to want to play Support**, not try to force them to. Autofill **does not work**, especially not without a lot of free Supports. Either the number of free Supports must be raised again or Autofill has **GOT** to go.
Rioter Comments
: Why do you say it failed? Did riot make a post saying it failed?
They failed to continue it. That's kind of like an implicit declaration of failure. If it was considered a success by the people who make the rotation, or even worth continuing to test, shouldn't we see more than 2 supports in this rotation? Or at least a declaration that more supports will be added back in soon? Personally, I don't think the extra supports failed, and I think it needs to be continued in a modified form to get good results going forward. But not seeing it in this week's rotation is definitely a bad thing either way. Either it "failed", or they're not capitalizing on something that can help. In either case, we should continue to prod them until we get some kind of answer on what the future is going to be. At the very least an explicit claim as to whether they think the experiment was a success or not, if so, when we'll see more supports again, and if not, what they're going to try next, when.
: New free champion rotation: Caitlyn, Elise, Fizz and more!
{{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}} I am very disappointed we're back to no additional supports; only 2 just isn't enough for good team comps with the playerbase League of Legends has. While Brand and Blitzcrank were bad picks for the list, the rest of the list was pretty solid and made for better games IMO, especially {{champion:37}}Sona and {{champion:44}}Taric which are relatively new-player-friendly and don't lend themselves to stealing CS. While a full extra 10 isn't necessary, I think at least 2-6 extra slots to provide a better variety of supports and account for the ever-increasing number of champions is a really good idea that should be implemented permanently. I think simply fixing the # of champions in the free rotation at 10% rounding up of the number of total champions would strike a good balance going forward. 14 for now with 6 of the slots dedicated to serious supports, rising to 15 sometime in 2017-2018 when champion 141 comes out. Probably keeping the % of support slots roughly proportional... around 3/8ths perhaps? Attention should probably be given to ensuring there's always a tank support, a heal-ally support, a strong shield-ally support, and a cc-heavy support (it usually won't take 4 champions to fill all these slots since there's a fair bit of overlap, such as with Morgana being strong in both cc and shielding,) and that at least 2 of the 6 support champions are highly newbie-friendly. I believe this will strike a fair balance between consistently giving users enough options to play support when they get autofilled while still selling support champions to people who grow attached to them. That's the main reason I'm not suggesting keeping the rotation at 10 supports long-term (though I'd be OK with that) - there aren't really enough support champions to fulfill quite so many without severely devaluing buying any of them. I do definitely want to see the rotation permanently raised at least a little from the previous 10 total to fit a greater variety of support champions in.
: Her second dash has increased range when directed toward an enemy.. and it sends her over walls too..
Talon can hop walls every literal 2 seconds (at any ability rank, without CDR) until he runs out of terrain he hasn't hopped recently. Camille gets one of each use of her dash every 10 seconds at best rank (45% faster with CDR at best.) If she doesn't hit with the second dash, or the stun isn't enough (and it's only a 1s stun,) Talon will still get away. Talon just isn't someone you pin down easily anymore, or for the most part, at all, short of maintaining a stun/root lock. If he sees you coming, not even being Camille is likely to let you catch up.
: trying to bait us into to playing flex with an ip boost, smooth move Riot
If they really want to encourage solos to play flex, they should bother to fix the display issue, and make the IP bonus BIGGER for flex solos, don't you think? And probably just make some degree of IP boost for solos in flex permanent. That way maybe they could actually turn on 4s.
: Why are the champion bundles only 25% off? (there's no incentive to buy them in bulk)
This ten times over. Why would I bulkbuy 5 champs some of whom I might not want at only 25% off when I could just wait and buy them individually at 50% off on their individual sales? Why even offer these sales? They are pointless, increase the reduction on champ packs to 60-75% or drop them entirely. They're pretty much just newbie clickbait any savvy buyer will know to avoid, and that doesn't say anything good about Riot's marketing.
: 2017 Season Kickoff Sale!
WHY would you put {{champion:12}}Alistar on sale, without so much as a skin? Or even just without a skin that isn't free? He's not in the free champ rotation because he's supposed to be free, with his Unchained skin, through that broken facebook promo, please go fix that promotion and stop putting him in non-premium-skin sales. It gives me very bad vibes about Riot's sales policies to see him in this sale this way.
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The Last Zica

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