Suh Shi (NA)
: Shaco in desperate need of some changes/buffs/rework
I mean. . . everyone knows exactly why shaco is in this garbage (read: good for cheese and nothing else) state. They loaded half his power budget into the longest/best invisibility (not camo) in the game for ganking. Consequently, his boxes are mediocre later in the game. His dagger is actual garbage. His ult is good, but it's also only good due to its synergy with the invis. Solutions? Scrap the Q. Scrap the E. Scrap the passive that is just meant to give his Q bonus damage. Keep the boxes and clone and stay true to his theme + the most fun part of his gameplay. Change him from an assassin to a unique playstyle, similar to fiddle. His q could easily be changed to something like: "Shaco may target any box within 500/650/800/950/1100 range and instantly blink to its location while leaving the box in his original position. This automatically sets off the box and gives it 1/2/3/4/5 extra health and .1/.1/.2/.2/.3 extra duration to its fear." This would reward being set up well, as well as functioning as an escape that isn't as aids as invisibility. There was a suggestion for boxes to work off of charges in this thread. That would be needed with this. Change his e. Blatant garbage. Potentially least satisfying and least useful ability in all of league. The thing which would actually make it decent would be to take the slow off and add damage + grounding effect. His e could be changed to something like: "Shaco lets out a ring of blades from his body (exactly like his clone's explosion) that deals damage based on missing health. If no targets are damaged, Shaco may reactivate this ability within X seconds to reset his q cooldown." This would give him at least a little bit better clear. Of course, his passive would need to be changed. New passive: "Shaco's pets' attacks nearsight enemies for .5/.75/1 seconds." To make this meaningful, add something to his W: **reduce the box's arm time to 1/.8/.6/.4/.2 seconds, scaling down with rank.** This way, enemies can't see where you placed another box (if any) if they're under the effect of another box or being harassed by his clone. Ult idea: when controlling his clone, if you make the clone target a box, it uses Shaco's q on it. Finally, adjust the scalings so that his boxes scale with AD **OR** improve the ap scaling on it. I'd love for shaco to be a good assassin, but relying on trickery (his theme) does not translate well into the game for assassins; It's too slow to set up later in the game and they flop/get killed, or it's too reliable and becomes massively annoying if not oppressive. Or we could just keep him as the assassin that relies on autoattacks for 95% of his damage and either sucks or demolishes, depending on how good the items are that he synergizes with.
: Why are dodging penalties and autofill bad for matchmaking?!
You have some good points and have created a thoughtful discussion. However, I believe you are wrong, and in the following paragraphs I will outline why. ___ > We can speculate that the nunu and rammus had their champions banned so they tried to force their team to dodge instead of incurring a penalty, and their team didn't think it was worth it to dodge. Absolute and total conjecture which you claim as a support column for your thought points. We have no way of knowing why they trolled and inted as we have no access to champ select chat logs. > The issue with this is that when we take 10 COMPLEX PEOPLE and put them into a lobby, it's simply based off of MMR rankings. Winrate, K/D/A, past games played on that day, don't factor into the system, only MMR does. You're using complex as a buzzword to artificially increase how complicated this issue seems to readers. The character of the people in the game does not matter. MMR is essentially a rating of how good someone is at winning their games; all other stats are irrelevant when matching people. If you focus purely on mechanics, the variance in plat 4 is insane. The mechanically gifted scoff at their lesser teammates and think themselves superior; however, they also clearly lack something the other has, or they wouldn't be in the same game. That person with garbage mechanics probably has FAR superior lane control/vision control/rotation to be able to win the same amount of games against the same enemies. MMR is the correct way to balance things. > So what purpose does dodging have in a league of legends? IT IS A TOOL THAT PLAYERS HAVE TO CORRECT ANY FAILURES OF THE SYSTEM TO CREATE EVEN ODDS!!!!!!!!!! > > If you get an all ad team into rammus, leona, garen. or a one-trick that gets autofilled (has a 10% wr in off-role), or an all ap team into galio, kassadin, etc. > > In matches where players have a fair understanding of the game, champion select has a huge impact on the flow of matches. > > When the MMR system matches 10 players together, the game is supposed to be even. IMMEDIATELY AFTER THEY GET INTO CHAMPION SELECT, THIS CHANGES FOR BETTER OF FOR WORSE. Players are able to calculate their odds based on the game knowing they possess. > > SOMETIMES, players can tell when matchmaking fucked them.. For that reason, we have the ability to dodge. > Dodging in this scenario is an acknowledgement of being outdrafted, which is **part of the strategic element of this game.** You outlined the whole reason here that there IS a dodge penalty: the draft phase is an expression of skill. It is the first stage of the game. By removing a penalty, you are removing an expression of skill and strategy from the game. It's like turning a skillshot into a point -> click. > In the most simple terms, we get 1.) players who decide to play matches where the odds are stacked against them, we get 2.) players who accept the penalty, and we get 3.) players who troll champion select to force the dodge penalties on someone else. Don't let someone extort a dodge out of you. It's that simple. Take the L if you must; it is their LP on the line as well. No matter what someone tells you, leveling an account to 30 or buying one is worth more than ~18 LP. They will be banned after a few games of trolling and have to spend time or money to do it again. Would you rather lose 18 LP or $10? You're also creating a false di(tri?)chotomy here. There's at least one more option: people who learn how to draft well and not alienate their teammates. I don't have evidence for this outside anecdotes, but how many trolls inted without being provoked? I can think of 2-3 times in my 6 years of playing league that I witnessed this. It's all one big learning curve. You are supposed to work with your team. Selfish decisions to ban someone else's champ or refuse to play an autofilled role are not conducive to winning. It's a skill you must hone, or your trolling behavior will get you banned. The antagonist and the troll both punish each other by ruining the game. There are unfortunate victims as well, but that problem is neither realistically solvable nor within the scope of this reply. > Where does my data come from? ---Intuition and statistical analysis--- I can't tell if this is a satirical quote or not and I'm not trying to offend you by taking it seriously or questioning its seriousness. That being said, flawed intuition and analysis of nonexistent statistics are not valid support to your argument. We have no facts or data to analyze and this is all conjecture alongside anecdote. > Because of dodging penalties, you get a guaranteed loss by dodging, you need to wait 6-30 min to queue up again, and you lose 3-10 LP. This is part of the solution, actually. You **_theoretically_** will not encounter more than one troll-y scenario a day, so 3 LP is a next-to-nonexistent penalty. What about the 6 minutes, you ask? That should be used to untilt yourself from whatever you witnessed in champ select that caused you to dodge. This is highly beneficial to you. Use it. They (Riot) up the penalties because they are trying to preserve the integrity of matchmaking. They do not want 5-8 dodges before every single game, so they throw on 10 LP as the next penalty. It is not a perfect solution. It is also not a bad one, in my opinion. > 1.) If you get autofilled, play, then feed, you'll probably lose a full 20 lp because there is only one rank. 2.) if you dodge, you lose 3-10 LP in your main rank and wait 6-30 min to play another game BUT 3.) if you troll your teammates and force them to dodge, you dont lose, and you dont get penalized. There is only one role, and everyone loses full LP+MMR, so the best way for everyone to win is for someone to dodge (Trolling champ select encourages someone to dodge because people are too smart to bet on winning) This is only relevant if you're incapable of playing more than 2 roles, which is absurd if you've been playing long enough to play ranked. An autofill should not be a guaranteed loss, and if it is, you can remedy that by learning the roles to a capable level. Dodging to avoid autofill is counter-intuitive; you're just as likely to get autofilled in your next lobby after the dodge. You can try and troll your teammates and attempt to force their dodge, but through doing this you are * Creating the scenario where you most assuredly lose LP * Asking to be banned * Wasting your own time There are no winners here. The only reasonable solutions are to be able to play at least 1 champ in all 5 roles (wow imagine that), or ask your teammates to take your autofilled role when it happens. Most of the time, in my experience, someone would rather take on that burden than let someone completely unprepared ruin their game. ___ I can appreciate the frustration and where your argument comes from; we've all been trolled in champ select before. I just simply don't believe the system has a better solution than the one in place. Try thinking of a solution that completely inhibits trolls while preserving ranked integrity. If you have one, I'd love to discuss and dissect it. I personally cannot think of one in the time it took me to type this all out. _**TL;DR:**_ Your argument lacks support in some areas and there doesn't seem to be a purely winning solution available, so we are stuck with what we have.
GigglesO (NA)
: Revert penetration formula...
I think you're overestimating what the effect of this would be. Who actually builds both % and flat armor pen? Maybe assassins and {{champion:104}}? ADC's don't even bother building any pen basically. So if we reasonably assume the targets of the champs building both kinds of pen are squishy, this has barely any effect. 30% armor pen 30 lethality for example. Let's say a squishy has 80 armor. It goes from reducing it to 26 armor | (80(.7)) - 30 to reducing it to 35 armor | (80-30).7 By the time you have this much % and flat pen, 9 armor is not going to make much of a difference. **Not only that, this would just encourage people to build % shred and flat pen together to circumvent this change's effect. This would bring back the {{item:3071}} meta of season 3. ** I mean this is just going to completely ruin mid laners' balance more than anything and either gut voidstaff or sorc boots.
AntiSJW (NA)
: I think no tumble no slow on E but if slow on E there'd better be a tumble no invis either so no letting people stand on you or walk over you
I think that sounds pretty fair. I would like to point out that, even though it's just camo, it's theoretically indefinite through standing still or being in bushes.
: funny thing about this game that is shown in the clip. {{champion:517}} ddint have the most damage healed in the game. Damage Healed 3.7k Lux 4.9k EZ 6.0k Kat 34.5k Hec 13.2k Yorick 9.0k Sylas 6.7k Jhin 24.9k Nami 11.9k Tryn 8.6k Shaco so in this game hec, yorick, nami and tryn all out healed sylas with shaco very even to sylas the only person on the OP team that build healing reduction was Kat with {{item:3165}} the LUX (OP ) went with a {{item:3100}} over either a {{item:3165}} or a {{item:3151}} so with a {{champion:23}} who has a heal on his Q out healed the broken heal of sylas hec who has a heal on his W that scales with AP (who dont build ap) out healed the broken heal of sylas by 25.5k so please if you want to cry over something lets not be bias
You realize Hecarim, Yorick, Nami, Tryn, and Shaco **ALL HAVE HEALING THAT DOES NOT REQUIRE YOU TO BE 100 UNITS FROM AN ENEMY CHAMPION** Had to bold that entire sentence because that's a very important distinction. Hecarim and shaco both are healing off jg creeps since level 1 thanks to their jg items. Hec has healing in his kit as well that is constantly being proc'd in the jg. I don't know why I even have to talk about Nami, who spams heal from level 2. Yorick has a heal on his q, which he is using to spam push waves all game. Tryn builds lifesteal AND has a heal on his q. So Sylas healed A LOT, because that's all from one ability that is being used solely against champions.
: Riot, We need to talk.
I hate Tryndamere and his afk split gameplay. I hate his RNG passive that makes me fear for my life because MAYBE at level 2 he gets a crit on me for 1/3rd my health. I hate his damned ult that never goes off when I press R at <200 health but always goes off for enemy trynds. More than that, I hate how hard he scales. With all that being said, they kneecapped him and he needs compensation. The stupid new Conq was a massive buff to certain champs and a horrible nerf to others. Tryndamere now sits with draven in the boat of having no optimal, extremely synergistic runes. What he needs most though is a rework to give him room for more interactive gameplay, which will in turn give his kit more room for extra power to be padded in. His kit is simply getting too old; he's the definition of a statsticker.
hoganftw (NA)
: It's ok when an ADC deletes a champion.
You only got downvoted because you used logic. Try using tears and anecdotes next time to farm upvotes.
Lapis (OCE)
: What's a good support to one-trick this season?
AntiSJW (NA)
: Someone suggested teemo w be a "roll then ms buff"
As amazing as this sounds, it is very dangerous to implement instant mobility in a ranged lane bully's kit. Are we talking tumble range? longer? He could be the most oppressive top laner ever created with more mobility. This is coming from an avid teemo player.
JuiceBoxP (EUNE)
: Sylas heal is still total bullshit
I hate to agree with a rant post. . . But damn do I agree. It wouldn't feel so bad if it weren't point-click. I hate how much power they loaded into his defensive tools. I don't even know if he's necessarily overpowered, but I hate his W with all my heart.
Lapis (OCE)
: It's not bad that women tend to favour support... right?
This is a dangerous (extremely controversial) topic that I will not touch for fear of being downvoted to oblivion. All I can say is that nothing is objectively bad or good; life is what you make of it. Hell, I'll probably get downvoted for not helping stir up controversey.
: ***
High WR junglers will have less rants about them than high WR laners because no one is forced to interact with them all lane phase. That doesn't mean Rek shouldn't be nerfed, but it's why the boards hasn't caught on.
PB4UAME (NA)
: Jesus christ, I wasn't even going to bother responding to your drivel, but seeing you double down after getting called out, and you're still spouting utter nonsense atop an imaginary high horse. This shit is great, if not a tad sad. The poor bloke above you tries to help you understand there's more than just damage in a vacuum, and that you actually have to consider damage to targets, as literally everything you're going to hit in League has non zero armor-- and then his point whooshes so hard over your head that you respond by talking about the one armor value he specifically mentioned it doesn't hold for. Why, it's almost as if you didn't even read or understand what they wrote. . . You may wish to re-read this portion of the above comment: >"In that context there is a clear fifth scaling vector, which is %penetration, which, against literally any target with positive amounts of reistances will increase the effective damage dealt by a percentage, which increases the value of each other stat or point of damage, and also has another variable to scale off of, namely your opponents resistances (as the damage increase is larger against larger amounts of resistances)."
No, dps calculation has no room for variables such as damage mitigation. You could have even claimed there was a 4th vector coming from rune % damage increases, but you're too dumb to do such a thing, clearly. If the enemy sejuani has 1000 armor, does that affect my dps to anyone but her? No. The ashe with 30 armor does not either. You do not calculate that in just to throw around the buzzword "quartic scaling." A Caitlyn with 200 ad, 2.00 AS, and 100% crit chance is always going to have a dps of 800 (from just right clicks). This does not change for any reason. There can be an opponent with 8,000,000 armor; this will not change the fact that Caitlyn does 800 damage per second. The amount of damage post-mitigation will vary from target to target; you might even call this **effective dps** against X. This is not the same thing as a champions' dps. **This is what you could have tried to argue** if you had just rubbed your two braincells together a little harder. You're genuinely too dumb for me to teach algebra 1 to. You should hop on your other account and respond on there too. After all, it couldn't be possible that I'm arguing with two braindead morons in the same thread who both misunderstand dps calculation in the same way. **IT IS CALCULATED IN A VACUUM** Yes, it is, want to know why? If there were no other champions on the rift but the caitlyn with 200 ad 2.00 as and 100% non-IE crit? She would have 800 damage per second because that is HER damage per second. If you want to talk about post-mitigation damage, you have to calculate in, **AS I SAID,** flat damage reduction, % damage reduction, armor/mr values, and even other offensive stats. Shiv procs, on-hit effects, and armor shred. You don't count all these factors together and say "Oh adcs have X scaling vectors." That's not how math works and I'm dumber for having read you say it multiple times. How many more times should I say it?
PB4UAME (NA)
: They cost less gold, ADCs have had the cheapest core items of the sub classes since the ADC rework, and they just got changed twice recently to be even cheaper than ever before. For reference, Phantom Dancer once cost 3345 gold, now it costs 2600g. An ADC's three item spike isn't some crazy amount, its only 8,600g. A tank building {{item:3143}} {{item:3075}} as their first two items, then their choice of boots is already paying 7,000g Their three item spike is between 9,900g and 10,200g. Tank items actually tend to simultaneously be both more expensive, and less efficient: slot-wise, gold efficiency-wise, and several stats exists solely to negate their function.
I actually replied to the other guy about this, but no, adc builds are not cheaper thank tanks' builds. You also included tanks' boots in their three item spike, but then didn't include it in the marksman's. Attack speed/crit items are cheaper by about 300g. Their first 3 items will usually have: one lifesteal item {{item:3153}} 3200 {{item:3080}} 3500 {{item:3812}} 3500 one as/crit item {{item:3085}} {{item:3046}} {{item:3087}} {{item:3094}} (2600g for any) {{item:3031}} 3400g Now even if they're an adc that forsakes a lifesteal item within their first 3 items, 2600 + 2600 + 3400 is comparable to a tank's first 3 items. A tank will have, for example, {{item:3800}} 2650g {{item:3143}}2900g {{item:3194}} 2800g + boots as their 3 items. Adding both up you get Marksman: 8600g Tank: 8350g It's a myth that marksman have the cheapest item paths; tanks do.
Yets4240 (NA)
: You're mostly wrong on the entirety of your post, but a few lines stood out: >"DPS has 3 scaling vectors: attack speed, attack damage, and crit. There is no 4th or 5th; you have no concept of what those are. Attack speed is multiplied by attack damage is multiplied by crit damage (assuming 100% crit chance). Penetrating armor does not multiply this by another number, though armor shred past 0 could be considered if that were still possible. Liandry's and abyssal can be considered magic damage's crit vector and CDR its attack speed vector." It has 4 scaling vectors: 1. Attack Damage 2. Attack Speed 3. Critical Strike Chance 4. Critical Strike Damage It has a 5th psuedo vector which (s)he already mentioned, in the form of %true damage conversion on Conqueror, (or old IE) Furthermore, in previous years damage was discussed much more often in terms of EHP or Effective Health Pools. In that context there is a clear fifth scaling vector, which is %penetration, which, against literally any target with positive amounts of reistances will increase the effective damage dealt by a percentage, which increases the value of each other stat or point of damage, and also has another variable to scale off of, namely your opponents resistances (as the damage increase is larger against larger amounts of resistances). Secondly, those items you mentioned actually scale multiplicatively with eachother and with other effects. Ninja Tabi and Randuin's offer less than their stated damage reductions against a critical auto attack for example, as instead of 12% + 20% or 32% less damage taken, you instead get 29.6% damage reduction, where Tabi's passive is only functionally worth 80% of the stated value. As a result, it is quite clear to see that there are less than linear (that is, 1:1 scaling) scalings present here. . . I'm sure you can see how this is literally what PB4UAME claimed above and the opposite of your flawed notion. The only misunderstandings which have needed to be cleared up here are your own. The last part is so worng I won't even touch it in full. First off, re-familiarize yourself with item costs. ADCs have the cheapest core build of any class, cheaper than tanks. A 15k gold build is an ADC beyond full items with elixirs. If at that point the tank only has two armor items and ninja tabi, yeah, they should be blown up by a beyond full build carry. that's a fucking terrible comparison though. Instead, you'll see tanks with {{item:3047}} {{item:3143}} {{item:3083}} {{item:3800}} {{item:3076}} get blown up by {{item:3094}} {{item:3087}} {{item:3031}} {{item:3006}} despite the fact that the tank's build is tailored exactly to the ADC's damage type, the ADC's is suited to pop squishies like a cherry, and the carry's build is cheaper too.
I'm going to explain to you why you're wrong as simply as I can, since my other post seemed to go over your head. 3 vectors: attack speed, attack damage, and crit (it is one vector) if you have 50% crit chance and no IE, the way you calculate this is simply as 50% effective increase in dps since you do x2 damage half the time and x1 damage the other half (theoretically). Do you want to know why you don't split crit chance and damage into two vectors? 100% crit chance 225% crit damage (with IE) is the same as just dealing 225% damage each attack. That is one simple 2.25x boost. so 125% (the damage a crit strike will add with IE) at 50% would be 1.25*.5 = .625 which would translate to your crits increasing your dps by 62.5%. This is the vector. Otherwise, with 0% crit chance, you'd still be multiplying your dps by the crit damage vector. Next, I'll explain why armor penetration is not a vector, since apparently I have nothing better to do than educate the idiots on gameplay on basic math. What does 100% armor penetration (true damage) do to your damage? let's see: nothing. you mutliply it by 1. This goes for any level of armor penetration. Do you want to know why? Because that's part of damage mitigation step and not the damage per second calculation. Your dps is not calculated based on anyone's stats but your own. Damage mitigation takes into account armor/mr, flat damage reduction effects (rare, but they're there), and % damage reduction effects. Armor pen cuts through one of these things; true damage cuts through all 3. Now, consistent armor shred to values below 0 would add a % increase on damage which would be a vector, which I mentioned in my original reply. That is also impossible in league, which is why I did not count it in the list of DPS factors. What else to educate you on. Right, ADC full build price: {{champion:236}} average full build consists of {{item:3153}} {{item:3071}} {{item:3006}} {{item:3094}} {{item:3031}} {{item:3026}} 3200 + 3000 + 1100 + 2600 + 3400 + 2800 = 16,100. Congratulations, genius, it was more than the estimate I gave. How about you refamiliarize yourself with item costs? And no, it's not just unique to {{champion:236}}: {{item:3072}} 3500g {{item:3508}} 3200g {{item:3095}} 3100g {{item:3036}} 2800g {{item:3139}} 3400g {{item:3812}} 3500g Only the crit/as items are cheap, and those are {{item:3087}} 2600g {{item:3046}} 2600g {{item:3094}} 2600g {{item:3085}} 2600g Tanks have notoriously cheap items. Let's take a look, shall we? {{item:3800}} 2650g {{item:3068}} 2750g {{item:3143}} 2900g {{item:3075}} 2900g {{item:3065}} 2800 {{item:3001}} 3000g {{item:3742}} 2900g {{item:3194}} 2800g {{item:3083}} 2850g {{item:3512}} 2700g I did you a favor and didn't count the tank support items that are all several hundred gold cheaper. Damn, looks like you were wrong. Again. What a surprise. As for your tabi+randuin complaint: that is how multiplication works. That's how tenacity works too. ((damage*reduction)reduction) etc. If you want more algebra 1 lessons, I can help, but with math much further than that you'll have to go to your parents :/
Scrai (EUW)
: reaching gold should be the way point of not playing with lower rank than you
Yets4240 (NA)
: But they don't. I have literally not once in the last three years seen a single ADC build two dedicated anti tank items in the same build, unless you count Lucian abusing {{item:3071}} +{{item:3153}}. What I see instead, is them building shit like {{item:3094}} + {{item:3087}} + {{item:3031}} with no pen, no BotRK, two items designed to provide extra wave clear, utility, range, and burst to squishies, and generic damage increases 3-4 shotting just about anyone, even if they have 2-3 armor items and some additional HP purchased, despite the fact that there was literally zero investment in anti-tank or anti-defensive stats, and all of the gold was spent on anti-squishy burst. When was the last time the ADC on your team actually bought a fucking {{item:3033}} or {{item:3036}}? They have an average of between 1-2% purchase rates for all ADCs, despite the fact that for the first 7 years of League's existence, they were core, 2nd - 3rd item choices that used to be necessary. You used to have to get an early LW + BotRK + attack speed + lifesteal + an AD item to be an actual threat to tanks and juggernauts, and to be able to slowly grind through them with sustained damage. Not this fucking bullshit instant burst, melting through tanks like butter we've seen since S7. If you want to kill tanks who are specifically investing in anti AD, anti auto attack, anti crit, anti AS, physical damage return, etc without even having to go a single atom out of your way of purchasing burst, objective taking power, wave clear, etc, with the audacity to also never even fucking bother with defensive item purchases (which used to also require at least 1-2 slots from META ADCs for 7 fucking years) and literally running the same items every single game over and over, you should need to purchase quite a few fucking items before you completely and utterly invalidate all of theirs.
Are those crit items not increasing their ad? Their attack speed? Their crit chance? That's all creating a high dps build that costs more gold than the armor items of a tank. They don't have to be anti-tank items to increase your damage against a tank. I'm also going to need a source on your 1-2% purchase rate claim, as I see it in many games that go on beyond 40 minutes. Penetration is usually prioritized as a last item now. I also see it on assassins as last items occasionally. You may also consider that much fewer tanks are played nowadays, so specific tank-busting items are needed less often.
PB4UAME (NA)
: But tanks should get statcheked at basically all points in the game by carries and any damage dealer ever, apparently (sustained AP damage, bruiserers, skirmishers, ADCs, and even assassins whine and bitch when they can't 100-0 a tank in one combo-- not that that's a problem currently as there is so much true damage and pen that defense is already worthless and they already can assassinate tanks without issue, and with overkill damage to boot) on top of damage already scaling far harder (quintic scaling, quartic if you don't count true damage/pen as a scaling vector, compared to linear returns to scale for all defensive stats). Yes, this is total fair, and balanced, and clearly the way it should be, and not biased as fuck bullshit.
> But tanks should get statcheked at basically all points in the game by carries and any damage dealer ever, apparently They get statchecked by marksman because that's the only reliable way to kill them lategame, yes. That's such a lame buzzword. > (sustained AP damage, bruiserers, skirmishers, ADCs, and even assassins whine and bitch when they can't 100-0 a tank in one combo-- not that that's a problem currently as there is so much true damage and pen that defense is already worthless and they already can assassinate tanks without issue, and with overkill damage to boot) Beautiful strawman. The construction of this was lazy, but it came out marvelously anyway. The players of this class- who number in the millions, by the way- have never complained they can't kill a tank in a single rotation of abilities. That's just blatantly false. Have they complained when they can't duel a tank? Certainly. Besides assassins though, they **SHOULD** be able to duel tanks after 20 minutes (25 for ranged hypercarries) with even gold. I'll get into why after I refute your next point. > on top of damage already scaling far harder (quintic scaling, quartic if you don't count true damage/pen as a scaling vector, compared to linear returns to scale for all defensive stats). Yes, this is total fair, and balanced, and clearly the way it should be, and not biased as fuck bullshit. DPS has 3 scaling vectors: attack speed, attack damage, and crit. There is no 4th or 5th; you have no concept of what those are. Attack speed is multiplied by attack damage is multiplied by crit damage (assuming 100% crit chance). Penetrating armor does not multiply this by another number, though armor shred past 0 could be considered if that were still possible. Liandry's and abyssal can be considered magic damage's crit vector and CDR its attack speed vector. Defense also has: % damage reduction, such as {{item:3143}} and {{item:3047}} which make the scaling much less linear against ad. Now that I've cleared up some of those misunderstandings, let's get into the balance philosophy behind it. There has only been one time in the game where defense was able to match damage scaling until 6 items: season 5 cinderhulk meta. Do you remember what happened? People began taking smite on juggernaut/tank top laners. People were only allowed to play tanks in the jungle and support, or else you were trolling (or playing janna). All assassins, save fizz, were troll picks. The games became extremely drawn out and teamfights were wet noodle fights. This is all because they gave a strong % health increase on an item. It led to only a full build marksman being able to kill them because of the amount of defense they could stack. Tank items were also less garbage back then in general. We are not in those times anymore. Do you want to know why a tank can never solo a bruiser past 20 minutes? Generally speaking, champions build to deal one damage type. Tanks build to defend against two. You can have 3 armor/health items and have 8000 gold invested in protecting yourself from physical sources. This means nothing against an adc with 15000 gold dedicated to dealing physical damage. Rightfully so, too. If you built 100% full magic resist against a full ap team, you could probably duel their magic damage carries, as any tank. Does this make sense to you?
: A Critique on Scathlocke/Lore Team's view on Good and Evil
I don't like flat characters. I personally like moving away from the whole "good guys" vs. "bad guys" thing, because they tend to be flat; One good act does not make you a good person. Of course, one bad deed does not make you a bad one either. Almost every single "bad guy" has a motive which they feel justifies their actions. The ones who do certainly do not feel that they are evil. These characters are, generally, more interesting than caricatures. WITH THAT BEING SAID, I think there are certain beings in league that still fill the static evil niche: the watchers and their void constructs. I appreciate these characters because they are evil to everyone, but they probably view good and evil as beneath them; they simply do what they do. If there's ever a benevolent watcher, I'll be disappointed. You could also argue Shaco is evil since he's a demented doll that goes around killing people. There's not really a way for him to be anything other than one dimensional evil. I have not been keeping up with the lore, so bear with me here, but don't lux and braum qualify as "good guys"? They still have hearts of gold, yeah? To an extent, bard is a being of ultimate good (he likes saving the universe and stuff). Ryze is a being I'd call a "hero" as well. He's on a quest to save people from their own desires of power. I'd have to dig deeper into the lore to give more/better examples, but you get the point. I think preserving the few good/bad characters we have is crucial, but I don't think much (if any) more should be created.
: > [{quoted}](name=ABarduousJourney,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FbXXfc3i,comment-id=000f000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-21T00:00:41.430+0000) > > So defense ONLY works against one person? Really? > > Fine, think about it like this: you dedicated 4-5 slots against one person. They dedicated all 6 to being able to kill you. Who should win? So what you are saying is damage shouldn’t have any counters? Got it. Biased opinion found.
No, I'm saying it should outscale defense. You should try and stop grossly misquoting me; strawmen devalue your argument.
: > [{quoted}](name=ABarduousJourney,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FbXXfc3i,comment-id=000f0000,timestamp=2019-02-20T20:38:20.497+0000) > > OP says tanks shouldn't have the potential to solokill hypercarries late game through stat stacking* That’s the point. If I’ve devoted 4-5 of my item slots to dealing with just you, I should have a big advantage over you. I devoted 8-10k gold into dealing with 1 champion out of 4.
So defense ONLY works against one person? Really? Fine, think about it like this: you dedicated 4-5 slots against one person. They dedicated all 6 to being able to kill you. Who should win?
: all of them are bothersome, even master yi now has a pick rate of above 5% in diamond and above. His win rate has gone down to more acceptable levels, but the fact that he can now be used in such high divisions is concerning
Here's the thing: he's not doing very well in diamond+. I get that it's odd that such a pubstomper would be used at all in higher divisions, but seeing as he is a strong duelist (which is the jg meta at the moment), he's perfectly fine. His pickrate is just shy of 5% and his winrate is just shy of 50% in diamond+ according to https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/diamond/plus/champion/MasterYi/Jungle/ Nothing about that is unhealthy.
: > [{quoted}](name=ABarduousJourney,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FbXXfc3i,comment-id=00100000,timestamp=2019-02-20T20:38:51.855+0000) > > The only one who is bothersome out of those 4 is vayne, and that's due to constant stealth, not true damage. Nah, it’s due to right click true damage. Much like Yi. Fiora is actually the best of those since it requires actual hitting vitals.
Before the Ult buffs, Vayne was mediocre. Few people cared about her guinsoo + w interaction because her winrate and playrate were, again, mediocre. It was the ult buffs that brought her to the current state. Maybe to you, yes, the true damage on autos is annoying. To the community as a whole, however, Vayne was not a problem until those buffs. This points to stealth every 1s being the more frustrating part.
: Yeah man I agree, I can think of all the fun champions to go against that have built in true damage like Master y-..... Fio-.... Va-.....Zo-..... Hmm...
The only one who is bothersome out of those 4 is vayne, and that's due to constant stealth, not true damage.
: TLDR. Op says tanks should remain useless because they are tanks and they should have to dodge things.
OP says tanks shouldn't have the potential to solokill hypercarries late game through stat stacking*
: Why does a champ with range aoe AAs, with mixed damage AND mixed shred already need true damage? Its just tacked on for no reason to make her completely overpowered at lvl 16, this is not good design. I dont know why her ult has a random AOE nuke at it too, its just more stuff tacked on into the game for literally no reason.
While I agree with her ult not needing a random AOE nuke tacked on, I think the true damage is appropriate. She has a short ranged, short duration shred that is barely AOE. At later parts of the game, that simply doesn't cut it against tanks that can keep her CC'd for the shred's duration. If they didn't want to add the true damage and make her extra strong late game, there would be no need for a weak early game. That part of her power budget would need to be compensated for in another area of her kit. That's a whole other discussion, but I don't think it would be a "good design" either; it would just be a different one. Still agree about the ult though.
: she already has resistance shred on her q. they could also have just kept her current passive and make her shred or pierce stacking 3% armor/mr per attack at lvl 16. not to mention shes going to build {{item:3124}} anyways, which additionally pierces armor/mr. the true damage is entirely uneccessary. all it does is further devalue champions with % damage reduction in their kits, aswell as the champions with inbuilt true damage. the more true damage you add into champion kits the less reason there is to pick the champions who have it inbuilt. what is the point of giving fighters and tanks short lived % damage reduction steroids that are supposed to be powerful defensive tools, if you add easily available true damage to more and more champions who then proceed to ignore this mechanic?
Riot has moved away from % damage reduction steroids. I can think of {{champion:12}} {{champion:86}} and {{champion:19}} who have it. {{champion:54}} and {{champion:113}} have armor/mr steroids, so you can count them too if you want. Who else? {{champion:61}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:85}} {{champion:27}} {{champion:3}} Give armor/mr. {{champion:39}} kind of So in the end, it invalidates **AT MOST** 10% of the champ pool, and that's considering that I missed some (Which I'm sure I did). So yes, she has increased value against these champs after level 16. I don't think it devalues their champion since no kit revolves around not facing true damage. I also think that it's okay for certain mechanics to counter others. It can lead to rock-paper-scissors, but we're far from there. I mean, does {{champion:41}} existing devalue every champion in the game with CC?
Kazekiba (NA)
: She DOES get ranged attacks at level 6, but this is gated by stacking her passive thankfully. And it's not like Riot's ever made a champion attack fast and have an invulnerability button that also does a lot of AoE damage who does true damage on every auto.... {{champion:11}} As long as it's somewhere in the range of Twitch/Yi and not, say, 40% of all of Kayle's damage turns into True Damage. I still think she can get by without it, since it's not like anyone ever argued {{champion:18}}/{{champion:29}} needed True damage (more, in Twitch's case. His DoT is somewhat negligible) and yet they're top of the line Hypercarries. Not sure how strong Trist is right now, but when she IS strong she's a nightmare. She does have a good chunk of Magic damage, though, so you can't just build armor and completely negate her especially when she has Shiv + Stormrazor.
Actually I believe she just gets cones on her attacks at full stack level 6. They still have to be against someone within 150 or whatever units if I'm not mistaken.
: I’m now wondering if those waves are dodge-able. I do want to counter on your comment fir her armor/mr shred, and that’s that it is percent based, which does make it naturally better against higher resist values than against squishies who don’t build as much. I’m hesitant to call true damage the “healthiest form of tank killing” when % penetration items exist and that’s what their purpose is. Part is because tanks have lower total health than in the past, and part because we already have a lot of it in ways that’s hard to counterplay. Vayne’s is either CC/kill or force her to swap targets, Yi’s is CC/kill. Most Fighters can get it by running Conquerer. Fiora has the most counterplay on hers since it requires the vital procs. This makes me hope Kayle’s AoE waves have a chance to miss, as it could add an extra layer of counterplay. Cc/kill isn’t always counterplay in the sense that most people mean and just hoping you burst them faster than they burst you. My personal stance is that % pen/shred is the healthiest form of tank killing. The other issue with flat true damage as a form of tank killing is it’s equally, if not more effective against squishies, since they don’t have as much health. Given this, I am getting more ok with Kayle’s, since it’s only after level 16.
While I understand that it can be large chunks against a squishies health bar, there are more health + ad/ap items available to builds than armor/mr + ad/ap. Because it is a flat amount of true damage, they can still build defense against it in this way. Items such as {{item:3078}} {{item:3071}} {{item:3151}} {{item:3916}} {{item:3161}} can all help. There are many more, but you get the idea. I know those aren't taken on (most) marksman. However, {{item:3046}} just got a pretty decent shield passive that can help. {{item:3814}} for assassins (or marksmen if they ever feel like changing build). Flat true damage also means you can still use Stoneplate against it effectively.
Rioter Comments
Asud (EUNE)
: 9.4 on the door and Syndra is still garbage
I want her to be good, but I also don't want to watch her in every single pro game for the next season. Apparently, neither does riot.
hoganftw (NA)
: Yasuo is balanced
I'm not sure what the purpose of farming downvotes is, but god damn you've mastered the art.
: Let's talk about "Forced 50% Winrate"
It doesn't matter. Everyone is going to find any reason other than themselves to blame a game loss on- they'll cite their kda, their cs, etc. This could be (and has been?) confirmed by riot and they would still deny it.
: Life From Nothing: Entities from the Void
Just a small detail I didn't see in your post: Vel'koz is one of, if not **the**, oldest voidborn. It's speculated to be the reason he was modeled more similarly to the watchers than other voidborn. I don't remember exactly where I read this, but I'm sure you'll find it somewhere in the lore. Great post overall, 10/10.
: > Attacks or spells that deal damage to an enemy champion grant 3-15 Adaptive Force (based on level) for 3s (8s for melee). Stacks up to 5 times. When fully stacked, 10% of your damage is converted to True Damage and you heal for that amount. https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xfNQZ8m1xak/XGHtiVDCb6I/AAAAAAABOxU/FKAO5Yf_6qkyJeBr0uEGzaO-l_PW4uYTgCLcBGAs/s1600/conqueror.png Incorrect. It's true damage first, heal based off of that.
Do (either of) you not realize that it's the same effect either way? The only instance where the order of effects matters is against targets who have **negative** resists.
: New Conqueror bother me a bit...
It's going to be a primarily marksman keystone, calling it now. Welcome to the adc class being indirectly buffed. Again. It was only inevitable as it hadn't happened this season yet.
JuiceBoxP (EUNE)
: What would happen if we take a flat 25% damage out of the game?
It's times like these that I thank god that rito doesn't listen to the boards.
: Fizz 100-0 me at lvl 3. How in the hell ...
It's frustrating, but he has a lot of all-in potential early. you have to remember a few things when facing fizz though. 1. His all-in range is poor: 550 q range. On top of this, if you move out of his q range while he casts it, **You can dodge its damage**. If your champ has any mobility, do this whenever he engages. 2. His first two levels are **garbage** against ranged champions, so you have to really try and harass him down before he hits 3 to make it too risky for him to all-in. 3. He has no instantaneous wave clear and no way to hit minions from a distance. Utilize this; you always know where he has to be to kill your low health minions. Place your skillshots there and bait out his E. 720g for 40 MR will save your lane every time{{item:1057}} Plus, the classic {{summoner:3}} will shut down 100% of level 3 all-ins. Always take this against fizz. Good luck.
KazKaz (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=ABarduousJourney,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NIkMUEGv,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-02-14T09:56:18.653+0000) > > Ah you're doing what he's doing now. > > says who? I will say she's strong due to the unnecessary buff a few patches ago, but what part of her is bad for game health? > > Sounds like an opinion to me. > > That was DUE to a rework that failed to bring her from unhealthy to healthy. This actually proves my point quite nicely. She WAS unhealthy, so they reworked her. Now they have dumpstered her until they can find a way to make her healthy. > > See where I'm going with this? A champ being strong =/= a champ being unhealthy > says who? I will say she's strong due to the unnecessary buff a few patches ago, but what part of her is bad for game health? True damage with effectively no cooldown (and Guinsoo's exists), an extremely low cooldown repositioning tool that also functions as an auto reset, one of the best situational CC abilities in the game and an ult that allows for what I like to call the "outplay factor" where if you make one mistake against her you die, whereas she can make multiple mistakes and have it considered to be an outplay since she'll kill you anyways. The buff to her ult->Q just made this worse..... > Sounds like an opinion to me. Doubt it. True damage, he abuses items to such an extent he breaks them; thanks to his passive (similar to Vayne only he did it before Vayne did), untargetability that he can easily get back up just by doing his job (autoing). > That was DUE to a rework that failed to bring her from unhealthy to healthy. This actually proves my point quite nicely. She WAS unhealthy, so they reworked her. Now they have dumpstered her until they can find a way to make her healthy. Akali was unhealthy due to shroud upon rework. Riot did not target shroud when initially nerfing her, so now we're stuck with this gutted champ until Riot decides to buff her. Although I will say kit wise only her shroud was really "broken" per say.
> True damage with effectively no cooldown (and Guinsoo's exists), an extremely low cooldown repositioning tool that also functions as an auto reset, one of the best situational CC abilities in the game and an ult that allows for what I like to call the "outplay factor" where if you make one mistake against her you die, whereas she can make multiple mistakes and have it considered to be an outplay since she'll kill you anyways. The buff to her ult->Q just made this worse..... It has no cooldown because it requires her to hit one target consecutively. Her "auto reset" actually slows her auto attacks down after something like 1.4-1.5 attack speed unless she's standing on a wall and resets towards the wall. Her condemn is not "one of the best situational cc abilities in the game" at all. That is salty hyperbole. It's decent at best and can only be used defensively 95% of the time. It also has a long cooldown, little damage, and short range. Her ult is her window of power, as I mentioned to the other person that replied to me. It is annoying and overbearing, yes. I also agree that the buff to her ult -> Q was ridiculous and unneeded. We are on the same page there. > Doubt it. True damage, he abuses items to such an extent he breaks them; thanks to his passive (similar to Vayne only he did it before Vayne did), untargetability that he can easily get back up just by doing his job (autoing). For the record, it was an opinion; that is undeniable. True damage does not make things inherently unhealthy. Calling yi unhealthy is going to make anyone above silver laugh at you. He has almost an exactly 50% winrate according to multiple sites (Champion.gg and League of Graphs) and 7% playrate. Those statistics are saying he's a good champion that is balanced. > Akali was unhealthy due to shroud upon rework. Riot did not target shroud when initially nerfing her, so now we're stuck with this gutted champ until Riot decides to buff her. Although I will say kit wise only her shroud was really "broken" per say. No argument here, unless we're talking about master+ where the shroud was only part of the problem.
Sucction (OCE)
: Her compete disregard for all melee champions' existence post two items is a pretty big one. Otherwise it'd be her permastealth that they just added for no reason despite it being terrible for the game and completely lacking counterplay. You can't counter every fact you don't like with "Bruh that's just like your opinion". That's not how facts work. Kha'Zix is unhealthy due to his inherent lack of counterplay beyond "always share xp and never use any trinket except blue"
It is though. It's your opinion that she makes the game unhealthy. Facts are as follows: Vayne invalidates melees. Correct. Your opinion about that is: It's unhealthy. It's not necessarily incorrect, but it is not factual. You can try phrasing it like, "The fact that vayne invalidates melees hurts game health" and argue that point. Beyond that, Kha'zix's counterplay is identical to every other assassin: don't be alone unless you can kill them 1v1. There's nothing special about him other than the fact that it usually happens from stealth when you're walking somewhere you shouldn't be. I don't like or dislike facts; I dislike when opinions are stated as facts. Anyway, I think vayne is overpowered, but not unhealthy. It takes some time for her to ramp up and her ult is her window of extreme power. It's obnoxious and hard to play against, but she's defenseless while it's on cooldown. If I thought she was unhealthy, I'd have to argue the same thing for every ult reliant champ in the game, and I don't want to do that. Thus, I just call her overtuned, ban her, and move on with my life.
Aionius (NA)
: Riven or Fiora?
if you're mechanically gifted, play {{champion:114}} ; if you're mechanically a god, play {{champion:92}} Or, if you're open to a 3rd option, play {{champion:240}}
: No, Seriously, Outside of getting lucky, how do you even get rank up?
: {{champion:266}} Has had his mobility sliced in half and now struggles to land combos. {{champion:84}} She isn't that safe or strong. She's at 38% winrate for a reason. Also has one of the slowest burst patterns out of all assassins. {{champion:105}} As much as I hate going against Fizz, he's fine and only really deals absurd damage when fed {{champion:28}} Gonna be honest here, I'll be a bit biased since I have over 200k on Eve. She's extremely weak pre-6 so is very vulnerable to invades, even after hitting six she needs a couple of items to really come online. {{champion:120}} He has 2 mobility spells and 2 hard CCs, which may sound like a lot but to effectively use any of them you have to go into the enemy which can be very risky. {{champion:39}} She has CD resets but she is balanced around that. She's been nerfed over and over and she's now in a decent state. {{champion:24}} Annoying but not too hard to play aroound. {{item:3075}} exists and basically counters everything Jax can do. {{champion:104}} This guy has 1 (2 at a push) dash. As ADCs go he's absolutely fine. He is okay early game, good mid game and scales well into late game. His damage isn't that absurd {{champion:75}} Again, there's a lot of ways to counter him. GW is always good into him if he starts to snowball, denying him cs in the early game isn't hard either since he loses to most lane bullies. {{champion:555}} Literally has the lowest damage output of any assassin. He needs his carry to deal the damage with the CC he provides to be able to execute enemies. {{champion:92}} Shield =/= tankiness. It's a bit of extra sustain that Riven needs. While I think she needs nerfs right now due to {{item:3812}} + {{item:3161}} being a thing, the issue you raise isn't really relevant. {{champion:107}} I agree he deals too much damage, but he isn't all that safe. Can be melted easily if caught out. {{champion:517}} Considering he's been weak since release, I highly doubt that. My only problem with Sylas is his healing on W but that's getting nerfed next patch. {{champion:254}} This is where you're just wrong. Vi's shield scales with max HP and hasn't scaled with AD for as long as I've been playing LoL. {{champion:23}} My only problem with him is his ability to R through CC. Past that, he's pretty weak rn. {{champion:238}} Again, pretty weak, only deals damage when fed, needing buffs which he is getting. {{champion:157}} That shield is how he gets through laning. While he is strong right now, he is getting nerfs next patch so I'm absolutely fine with Basuo
Sucction (OCE)
: Vayne is terribly unhealthy, no rework Yi is equally unhealthy (As much as I love him), yet no rework for him either They just made Akali, and look how wonderful that champion was for the game? Riot aren't above mistakes, lol.
Ah you're doing what he's doing now. > Vayne is terribly unhealthy, no rework says who? I will say she's strong due to the unnecessary buff a few patches ago, but what part of her is bad for game health? > Yi is equally unhealthy (As much as I love him), yet no rework for him either Sounds like an opinion to me. > They just made Akali, and look how wonderful that champion was for the game? That was DUE to a rework that failed to bring her from unhealthy to healthy. This actually proves my point quite nicely. She WAS unhealthy, so they reworked her. Now they have dumpstered her until they can find a way to make her healthy. See where I'm going with this? A champ being strong =/= a champ being unhealthy
: >You're telling me that the champ who can get a conqueror stack every .75s with a point click ability ISN'T going to use it? Are you delusional? Conq cass will be 100% P/B top lane. When the entirety of the Sorcery tree exists and is overall, much more useful than one single Keystone in Precision she can potentially use? No, she won´t use it. She has better options of keystone and minor runes, as does Ryze. >New conqueror is a general use rune that's lackluster. People wanted Fervor back, they got Fervor back, but better. And somehow they still find a reason to complain because a few champions they don´t like very much have a very, VERY far from guaranteed chance of being able to use the rune. And even if they do, their overall efficiency will be much, much worse, as Precision/Sorcery leaves them with less options in Sorcery to pick from. >You know who will actually like it? Marksman. Unless I'm mistaken, you no longer have to be melee to refresh it No, but by comparison, it's 3 seconds of duration, versus 8 seconds for melee. It's a fair enough limitation. >Some of them still did! Literally just Draven, unless you´re counting the 50 or so games, amongst millions, with the MFs, Caitlyns, whatever ADCs where they mistakenly took Conqueror.
Late response here, but you brought up some fair points so I feel like I'm obligated to refute them. > When the entirety of the Sorcery tree exists and is overall, much more useful than one single Keystone in Precision she can potentially use? No, she won´t use it. She has better options of keystone and minor runes, as does Ryze. She can still take sorcery secondary, my friend. The precision tree is not bad either; You've got % damage increases and tenacity coming out of it, so it's still attractive to most damage-centered champions. > People wanted Fervor back, they got Fervor back, but better. And somehow they still find a reason to complain because a few champions they don´t like very much have a very, VERY far from guaranteed chance of being able to use the rune. And even if they do, their overall efficiency will be much, much worse, as Precision/Sorcery leaves them with less options in Sorcery to pick from. It's fervor, yes, but for all champs. It's no longer just the fighter rune. It is potentially better, but I believe it takes longer to stack. Also: One less rune in sorcery won't be the end of the world. It's a tradeoff people are willing to make to shred through tanks top lane. > No, but by comparison, it's 3 seconds of duration, versus 8 seconds for melee. It's a fair enough limitation. This is true, but think about how much easier it is to access someone to attack as a ranged champion. A melee can't always hit something to refresh his stacks, but a caitlyn (or other marksman) can probably keep tapping a tank throughout a fight if no better target presents itself. > Literally just Draven, unless you´re counting the 50 or so games, amongst millions, with the MFs, Caitlyns, whatever ADCs where they mistakenly took Conqueror. I've seen some MFs intentionally take it, but fair enough. It is fairly specific to Draven. Jayce too if you want to count him as a marksman half the time.
: God forbid mages/specialists have another rune to use. One that´s in a tree they barely choose, if at all, even as a secondary tree. Cass and Ryze are unlikely to forgo Phase Rush for Conqueror. Comet Cass only functioned because of DOT poke. And new Conqueror can´t be stacked efficiently on her as DOTs maintain stacks, but doesn´t stack. Ryze needs Phase Rush to kite people after using his root, so he´ll likely be crippling that just to get more AP. Azir is mostly using Lethal Tempo nowadays, so him having more than just one rune in Precision to use is nice. 3 potential users, with only 2 being mages hardly qualify as Riot making it a mage rune, especially when most mages will still have better options. The only mage that´s really very likely to use it to a rather decent degree of efficiency is one i saw no one mention: Orianna. Nevertheless, new Conqueror is still a fighter rune, except now it's more like Fervor, actually requiring 1v1s and extended trades to occur, something Fighters excel at. All you´ll see in regards to tanks are more viable choices rather than Sion. And Sion. And Sion. Oh, and Sion. Conqueror should have been an adaptive rune from day 0. It's idiotic that in a system designed around adaptive stats there is only ONE rune not following that design. The ranged/DOT/mage limitations imposed by the "rework" are abundant and fair. Live Conqueror is an abomination of game design. New Conqueror not only opens up its use by more champions, but also doesn´t make an entire class irrelevant from champ select onwards. There's a reason why Sion is the only actually, 100% viable tank with live Conqueror existing.
You're telling me that the champ who can get a conqueror stack every .75s with a point click ability ISN'T going to use it? Are you delusional? Conq cass will be 100% P/B top lane. Ryze will take it top lane as well. He has a built in speed boost in his kit as well as a shield. They may be weak, but with conq he'll have enough damage that you can't afford to all-in him anyway. Azir doesn't need it; you're correct. Hash was just being salty here. New conqueror is a general use rune that's lackluster. It'll probably be decent on the skirmisher class. You know who will actually like it? Marksman. Unless I'm mistaken, you no longer have to be melee to refresh it, which is the only reason they didn't take it before. Some of them still did! It will give them extra pen against tanks, extra healing, and extra ad to multiply with crit. Hurray.
: I actually agree with hash here
Careful what you post, friend. You must remember that you're on the boards; tanks and mages are weak and can do no wrong, and their mains are valiant players who one trick them purely for enjoyment.
KazKaz (OCE)
: Why is Kha'zix the only assassin besides Zed that hasn't been reworked?
All of this is just your opinion. What objectively points to him being unhealthy? The answer is simple: He has not been reworked because he's not unhealthy. That's the only logical reason. You're looking for a conspiracy to fit your claim instead of reevaluating your claim. Work smarter, not harder. Edit: I see the denizens of gameplay smelled me defending an assassin and had to intervene, how unexpected.
: > [{quoted}](name=C9 Entropy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bEZELuJ7,comment-id=0017,timestamp=2019-02-05T20:32:48.362+0000) > > Yeah I'm going to need you to link your plat account my friend. > > I can climb through bronze-silver with one hand and a toaster, and I'm consistently plat 4-3 elo. If you were really plat elo you'd know that it's much more toxic than silver ever could be. > its all about what champs you pick. the core to take away, is that you HAVE to play a hardcarry champ and be super good enough to carry 1v9. maybe you are good at those types of champs. most people who are stuck in bronze and silver, arent. they may be good at random, "non-meta" champs. REALLY good. But.. they're still stuck because of their champs.
This is a commonly perpetuated myth that is not true. I can create a new account and play support and climb to gold easily. Plat as well if I'm allowed to play bard and veigar as supports. I can play any adc and get to gold at least. Same with jg, same with mid. This is because, at the end of the day, no matter what position you're playing, it's still league of legends. It's the same map, the same objectives, and the same rotations. Understanding how not to feed and when to go where is almost the entire trick of gaining LP. TL;DR: Macro play and cs is basically 80% of what determines climbing.
: Favourite Sylas Keystone?
Klepto is by far the best against melees and electrocute is best against ranged. I like aftershock in certain matchups, but if they avoid your skillshot E2 you're basically fighting without a keystone.
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The Legend XXVII

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