Terozu
(NA)
The Yetii Rider
(NA)
Japan probably just bans him to own the weebs, tbh.
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Riot Jag
(NA)
:
Teemo changes temporarily on PBE for early feedback, part 2
Are you seeing any potential problems or bugs with giving the Teemo player increased vision range while stealthed?
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RiotRepertoir
(NA)
:
Again, it's possible we should nerf Riven.
It's also possible we incorrectly nerfed Singed and should still not nerf Riven.
Repetoir I have a serious question for you and if you don't have the time or energy to answer it, that's fine, but I do hope you give it some thought.
If you all constantly have to play whack a mole with kits or items every time an unexpected synergy emerges with a new rune or keystone, and in so doing you make the player experience worse for the players who have to deal with the power at its onset, then make the player experience worse for the players who feel punished when it's nerfed when all they were doing was using a new keystone in a clever way...is all of that really worth whatever masteries and runes actually offer to the game?
Itemization is fun. I like switching up builds occasionally. But I don't think keystones really have that kind of flexibility, at least not in their current form. I don't think that champions can just switch off keystones. Like, if I wanted to play some kind of ultra sustain MF and decided to gamble a little bit and pick Kleptomancy instead of Harvest or Electrocute or whatever she's using right now, then I go into games and I poke some guys and I get some extra pots and a bit of gold...that's just me gimping my build. I am losing aggression, losing kill pressure, for what? Some fun? I would have more fun getting to an item spike faster and getting an early kill and XP lead with a damage keystone.
Not to mention the bugs that this system introduces. We all remember Jhin and Hail of Blades. If you just removed runes and masteries from the game altogether and gave a small chunk of health and AP and AD to all champs to compensate, would that really hurt the player base all that much?
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RiotRepertoir
(NA)
:
I do think it could be. That's why I asked that final question. If we should strike a ban rate line of some sort, I'm open to hearing what that line is and what other conditionals should be considered around it.
I don't necessarily think that the specific line should be public information to the players, because if it is we could just gather on Reddit or something and say "if we all play enough games and keep banning this champ, they'll get nerfed!" But I do think that it's something worth discussing among Rioters in private.
Kassadin, Warwick, Skarner and Darius have all had _disgusting_ ban rates, to the point where you were seeing them in way fewer games than they should have been played in. Riven is a champion who deserves to be picked in the situations where she should be good. I also think this particular situation, where it really does seem clear what the problem is, calls for a nerf. It's obvious that Riven's ability to sustain in lane better after receiving the changes to Conqueror is what has led to this strange shift in her overall power level, and honestly lane sustain is something that doesn't necessarily belong in the game anyway. Fleet has been a problem since it was released, and now Conqueror as well. I think if there is some sustain that needs to be injected into lane, it definitely should not be on a keystone (and thus both take up a significant power budget **and** crowd out other options because lane sustain is more impactful as the early game is more impactful).
I think that Second Wind is a good example of what sustain should look like, and Bloodline or whatever the life steal rune is from Precision is good too. Maybe there just needs to be one of those in each tree, with a ban on taking two at once?
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RiotRepertoir
(NA)
:
> Rioters should not willfully lie to the playerbase and should be held accountable.
Agree.
> lie on Twitter that it is a "western phenomenon"
I said that her frustration is a western phenomenon. She is banned 60% more often in NA than her global average. Ban rate is a readily available statistic that we believe can be correlated to frustration. I also said on Twitter that Riven is a strong champion right now. Somehow that didn't make this post.
There are good justifications to be made for nerfing Riven. I personally think some are pretty compelling. Good arguments can be constructed to nerf many things, however, and we want to be sure we're applying consistent measures in our approach to balance. I think we've not been great at this over the years, really.
Some champion will always be the strongest one that does not get nerfed in a patch. This patch Riven's pretty darn close to that. If she picks up any more, she's probably due, but we don't think she's crossing that line right now.
For those that are actually seeking a discussion, what is the criteria we should be using to justify a nerf to Riven this patch that we'd be 100% happy with applying to champions in the future (NOT the past, as I've already stated we haven't been consistent)?
You don't think a giant ban rate is enough of a reason to nerf a champion? Don't you think high level Riven players want to play their champion safely?
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Jennifer420
(EUW)
The Yetii Rider
(NA)
They mentioned in the last patch notes that ARAM is sticking around for 2 more patches, probably because they want it here for April 1st.
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SweedishGunner
(EUW)
That's true with Blitz and Morgana too.
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Seenan
(NA)
The Yetii Rider
(NA)
Sure, take it from being abuse case only to no one building it. That's going to help the item.
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Z3Sleeper
(NA)
If a top lane tank builds Iceborn Gauntlet they are going to get wrecked by Conqueror. You need health, you need armor, you need survivability. You need Sunfire Cape.
Jungle tanks have better options like Spirit Visage, Warmogs and Adaptive Helm.
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LordGeovanni
(NA)
Revert what nerfs? Making the Spellblade proc 125% instead of 100%? That's not going to make tanks suddenly buy the item again.
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Ragnaveil
(NA)
How does making the item melee only help anything? It's not like making it melee only will suddenly open it up for more stats. The problem with Iceborn is the same as the problem with Frozen Heart, there's too much true damage for a melee champion to buy a pure armor item. Even Thornmail was changed to give a little bit of health. You can't make IBG an item that any melee will buy without fundamentally changing its build path, and if you do that you're going to create brand new users that you weren't expecting.
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Critmaster Garen
(NA)
The Yetii Rider
(NA)
The reason you don't do that is because you're trying to fulfill a hyper carry fantasy. And honestly, the hyper carry fantasy is a problem generally, not because the champion is too strong in the late game, but because they can too reliably reach it.
Kayle basically being totally useless until level 11 creates a genuine niche for her. She is not right in every matchup, there are some games where if you first pick her and she faces off against a certain team comp, you might as well be down a player. That's different from Riot's current philosophy, but I think it's a change for the better. We need more defined niche picks and less generally good champions.
Now just take away Nasus's life steal and you will have a truly diverse and interesting top lane meta.
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Critmaster Garen
(NA)
The Yetii Rider
(NA)
Why are you complaining about her early game?
You know who else has terrible early games? Master Yi, Amumu, Sejuani...
The solution to terrible early games is to take the champion into the jungle. It's not something Riot needs to step in and do.
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Ragnaveil
(NA)
Because ranged champions have an inherent advantage when kiting compared to melee champions. Melee champions can use Iceborn to chase. Ranged champions can use Iceborn to chase OR run away. There's nothing you can do to change that.
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Rathar Dashing
(NA)
It IS weaker on ranged champs, the AOE size scales with armor and ranged champs have less base armor.
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Lildudefood
(NA)
Double Tear is a fun build on Ryze, it's not something they want to cut themselves off from entirely. They just need to make it weaker on Ez.
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Strawberrycocoa
(NA)
The Yetii Rider
(NA)
If you compare the damage output of a champion like Ahri with a champion like Veigar, you will see a drastic difference. The thing that frustrates people is that the mobile character still needs "enough" damage to function, and there's no benefit for the immobile champion "overkilling" someone.
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GigglesO
(NA)
The Yetii Rider
(NA)
Glad to see someone else playing Orrn jungle. It's so weird that no one wants to play him in the jungle when his passive is amazing for keeping your clear going.
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Paroe
(NA)
The Yetii Rider
(NA)
Yeah, that's Riot's fault for backing off on the Sunfire Cape nerf during the preseason. Riot just needs to take away Sunfire Cape, period, and leave tanks with no options in top lane. Then the team will have no choice but to pick tanks in the jungle spot, and once everyone's clear speed and mobility sucks, it's not a problem. You can either have a good early game jungler, or you can have a tank. And if you have a good early game but your team is squishy, you will lose later.
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The Ecdysiast
(NA)
The Yetii Rider
(NA)
Tanks shouldn't be in top lane regardless. As long as {{item:1401}} exists, tanks should be reliant on the 20% bonus health from that item. If they do not have that item, they should be too squishy to function, because if they can function without it, then they would be broken with it. With this in mind, every tank should be a jungler.
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Risk of Fate
(NA)
Easy to explain: An ADC's power level is harder to understand because the bot lane dynamic involves a lot of things. Matchup between ADC A and Support B, matchup between ADC A and ADC B, matchup between Support A and Support B, matchup between Support A and ADC B, synergy between Support A and ADC A, synergy between Support B and ADC B....
In top lane or mid lane, generally the only things that are relevant are Player A's skill with Champion A, Champion A's matchup against Champion B, and Player B's skill with Champion B. And as you get into the higher levels of the game, Player's Skill becomes almost even most of the time. So the only factor really is the matchup (and the numerical power level of each champion at the time).
So, Lucian could be overtuned, or his synergy with certain supports (mages) could be too good, or the supports who counter him could be pushed out by something, or the ADCs who beat him are still adjusting to the new item builds...all of these things are factors for why Lucian could be strong.
With Riven, it's pretty clear that the thing that changed for her was the change to Conqueror.
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LightIsMyPath
(EUW)
> It was the KIND of flame
Yeah, that just shows that it was effective. You realize the purpose of the insult is to upset people, right? Insulting women for being women offends most of them, and the point is to offend them. You aren't making any sort of point here, you think people who want to upset you should choose insults that are less effective? Why would they ever do that?
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Quepha
(NA)
I have not said it was not BM. I think punishing players for BM is stupid. It's definitely BM.
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Quepha
(NA)
> If you're playing in a pro game then you are required to treat it seriously.
Why should the players take a game seriously when Riot is not? If Riot is going to insult ROX by putting them against a team of low Diamonds, then why should ROX give a single fuck about the game?
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Saianna
(EUNE)
Yes, but assholes can be pro players too. Why should the assholes have to hide their disrespect? If that's their personality who is Riot to tell them they can't do it? Enforcing politeness or sportsmanship is A) stupid and B) never works. And it's not representative of the LoL community at all. Every single player on ROX has been flamed at least a thousand times each, guaranteed. That's just part of climbing to challenger.
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LightIsMyPath
(EUW)
Uh...you realize people can be dicks to each other in online games? Even in professional play. There are all sorts of people who are dicks to each other in public sporting matches. Tennis, basketball, football. Insulting a girl for being a girl is no different than insulting a short guy for being short. You can pick on whatever aspect of their physical appearance or personality you want, everything is fair game.
Also, you can mute people if you're getting flamed. Seriously, complaining about getting flamed is ridiculous, literally all of us get flamed in at least a quarter of our matches.
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Meddler
(NA)
:
Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 22
Meddler, what are your thoughts on the game after the Teleport nerf?
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Meddler
(NA)
:
Morg - we did try some other changes including on the passive. Conclusion was overall Morg's kit was in a fine spot though, including with good balance and counterplay across a really wide range of skill levels. Decided not to change too much as a result.
Kayle - Her late game is intended to be really strong (hypercarry). Intent is that she should pay for that with a pretty weak early game. If she does look out of line first thing we'd assess therefore is whether her laning's actually soft enough. Second thing would be whether, even if she struggles to get there, her late game's just too hard to deal with. Feeling pretty good at this point about her balance off internal testing, real test's always once a champ goes live though.
If Kayle's laning phase is weak, what's to stop her from just going into the jungle and power farming until 11?
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Scathlocke
(NA)
:
Darth Vader is unquestionably the villain for much of the story, but he's not the evil mastermind he was originally shown as. He did some utterly abhorrent things, for selfish and spiteful reasons... and yet, he is considered redeemed "in the eyes of the Force" or whatever, by the end.
It's far safer to assign the terms "hero/villain" or "protagonist/antagonist" to stories. We are building stories here, not moral judgements designed to tell people how to live their lives, in the real world.
Basically, if ANY character wakes up in the morning and thinks "What's the most evil thing I can do today?" then that's a hard pass from me, friends.
Considered redeemed "in the eyes of the Force" is the issue here.
That's the way the writers have presented it to the audience. The audience doesn't have to agree with it. And your players' opinion of your characters should matter more to you than the opinions you have written us to have for them.
Like Silas. I personally think Silas is utterly unlikable and the sad part is that his storyline has ruined Lux's character for me even more than her rework did. Lux used to be a character who was a renowned military genius and tactician. Then you just ripped that out of her, and now she's so gullible that she approached a man who was jailed for being **unable to control his power** and she agreed to do favors for him in exchange for **lessons about magic**? It's a butchering of the original personality. Silas is a man who **justifies** Demacia's treatment of mages in my eyes, he literally couldn't control his own power and a man died because of that. If that's how magic functions in the world then yes, mages who fail to control themselves should be locked up for life for the safety of everyone else, that's why prisons and exile exist in the first place. And yet somehow everyone is supposed to think this is "unfair" because some rich mages get away with it? No. That just means the rich mage kids should be in jail as well, it certainly doesn't mean Silas should be free.
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Scathlocke
(NA)
:
Was Darth Vader good or evil?
Discuss.
Darth Vader is unquestionably evil. The prequels show that he was misguided and misled, but that doesn't matter. Murder is evil, the act of killing someone without justification, without hesitation, without remorse. That is an evil in EVERY culture, which is why it is illegal in EVERY culture. And we can see Vader kill people for failing him or just general incompetence throughout the original trilogy.
Even if you somehow pretend that European culture should not be the center of a game created by Americans of European descent (in which case, the final circle of Inferno is reserved for traitors, which Vader was in every stage of his life. He betrayed the Jedi Order, he betrayed his best friend, he betrayed his suboordinates in the Empire, and he also had Starkiller create the Resistance as treachery against Sidious), then you must accept that murder is evil. If you do not accept that murder is evil, then you are simply amoral and I have no interest reading the lore of characters written by an amoral person. That's totally unrelatable to a person like me who has a clear and concise set of moral values that don't give a shit what other cultures think.
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| Rioter Comments | new Comments | Views | |||
WAZZZUP500
(NA)
Dragon is ridiculously easy to solo and thanks to sweep plant, you barely have to worry about being spotted with a ward.
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Marshbouy
(NA)
Lol who ganks for bot lane?
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Marshbouy
(NA)
Assists give you 150 gold. That's more than you were getting before.
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Slythrin Umbreon
(NA)
Phantom Dancer has the Lifeline passive, so it doesn't stack with Hexdrinker/Maw/Sterak's.
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Meddler
(NA)
:
Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 25
Meddler, Irelia is a diver, and you've just taken away some key aspects of her kit that were helping her kill marksmen. If divers aren't meant to jump on, tank against, and ultimately kill marksmen, what **are** they supposed to do? Disarm (hurts auto attackers) and breaking shields (anti-BT, now anti-PD, and anti-Locket) aren't enough of a niche for a champion who is supposed to kill marksmen? Why not?
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Z3Sleeper
(NA)
Yes, fighting over baron is the point. That's something that should happen, it's an important part of late game. Split pushing is neither fun nor interesting, 5v5 team fights and zoning are fun.
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GayFluffyUnicorn
(EUW)
Uh, no. As a jungler, I know full well how frustrating it is for a top laner to practically IGNORE all objectives JUST because they have TP up. Then you ping and beg for them to start their TP, they don't, and you get killed by a 5v4.
Top laners should actually fucking group for dragon and baron from the beginning instead of sitting there farming while the rest of the team tries to set up vision and zone off.
Those champions who are unable to effectively team fight by design currently do not pay enough of a price for their lane dominance with late game team fighting weakness. They should be forced to team fight, and suck, to make up for their excellent lanes. That will drop their win rates as is appropriate.
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aezens
(EUW)
This encourages top laners to fight with the team instead of sitting in top lane waiting for a good chance to TP in.
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Trollmanship
(NA)
That **is** the point of this change. TP just makes top lane into a farm fest with split pushing.
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Meddler
(NA)
:
Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 9
What is the point of Sejuani living longer if her CC is weaker? Tanks are there to give their team CC, that's all genuine tank players care about. Tanks don't need more damage.
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Squad5
(NA)
:
For now I'd like to test out sharpening his identity as a higher damage and CC but lower durability tank. It's definitely possible that something might need to be added back onto the kit - and it could just be placed somewhere else that gives more play for the enemy.
The Yetii Rider
(NA)
Thing is, if the CC and damage are enough, then the durability isn't a factor.
He's a tank. Actual tank players don't want or need damage to kill champions, we control the board and never die. If you're trying to appeal to top lane players who don't like tanks, fine, but then don't keep his CC. If he has high damage, then his CC being too high as well is just going to make him a toxic juggernaut style character rather than a tank.
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Squad5
(NA)
:
Trying to maintain his ability to scrap in lane by allowing him to cast more spells and get stronger trades with brittle. At the end of the day he needs to be a bit more vulnerable to taking damage back during those trades though.
The Yetii Rider
(NA)
...Why? If you just nerf all his damage, but make him scale well like you are and give him good defenses, he can be a strong jungler. Why are you so worried about preserving his ability to go into top lane?
Tanks shouldn't function properly in top lane. Cinderhulk is a must buy on tanks with the lower health that every tank item gives, so if a tank can function in a lane without Cinderhulk, then they're overtuned and too powerful with it.
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PoorLittleHammer
(EUW)
AP champions are hurt more by MR than AD champions are hurt by armor. This is true. However, that doesn't matter. Because you aren't competing with your teammates to see who can deal more damage or get more kills, it's all about working together.
Mages being powerful PREVENTS full AD teams from existing most of the time. Yes, you can see Zed or Yasuo mid occasionally but usually the midlaner is going to be AP and the support will be primarily magic damage as well. This simple fact is enough to force tanks and bruisers to buy one MR item which is not an armor item. In other words, by simply having a mage in the game, all AD champions' damage increases because the enemy team cannot stack as much armor against them as they otherwise would.
So mages actually inflict plenty of damage onto the enemy team beyond just their abilities. They amplify the damage the carry does by forcing MR builds and the carry amplifies the damage the mage does by forcing armor builds. This is healthy, and teams that are full AD or full AP are uncommon because they are not as good as a balanced team is.
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Zerenza
(NA)
This is the thing, when you say items "aren't good" on Burst Mages, what you actually mean is that they aren't AS good as other items.
AP and Health work just fine on a champion like Zoe, it's just that if we assume Zoe will always get her full combo off and will hit people with it, Luden's Echo and Void Staff will ensure she gets more mileage out of her abilities than Rylai's or Rod of Ages.
But that's a stupid assumption to make to begin with. People are bad. You are bad. I am bad. We make mistakes. Health is a way to compensate for mistakes. Having a little extra breathing room to tap your Zhonya's or to Flash away can make all the difference between getting a weaker but still full rotation or not using an ability at all.
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VanaQuish
(EUNE)
Lethality is designed to kill mages. Why should mages be able to fight assassins, assassins are their counter.
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Zerenza
(NA)
Zhonya's Hourglass has a myriad of uses. It allows you to predict when the majority of a team's burst will be coming at you and avoid it. It gives mages 2.5 additional seconds of "cooldown reduction" because they get their cooldowns back by the time they get out of stasis. ADCs do too, but mages' abilities are vastly more powerful than ADCs so that is clearly a win for the mage in this case.
Also armor as a stat is better for mages than it is for ADCs, as mages have solo lane stats. They have more health and access to more health items like Rod of Ages and Morellonomicon which give them more effective HP with the armor from Zhonya's than ADCs get from Guardian Angel.
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Meddler
(NA)
:
Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 31
> Nunu - Has never quite performed as well as we expected him to post update, even with optimal builds. Looks like we were a bit off in terms of how much power he'd get from learning curve. Giving him a bit more mid combat durability in particular as a result, with a stronger heal when he uses his Q on champions
Tanks don't have in-combat sustain, Meddler. {{item:3083}}
A tank is not supposed to take damage and come back with a surprise burst of healing. That's what juggernauts do. {{champion:36}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:83}} .
A tank is supposed to absorb and mitigate large amounts of burst damage. They do this by having high stats in the first place.
Nunu has low power because his role demands high stats and you carved his stats into nothing. Nunu's base health and health per level are TERRIBLE and the compensation he gets for that is a high scaling shield on his ultimate, which is something he can only use AFTER he's charged through a bunch of skill shots to get to the enemy team. That's not tanking. That's some kind of weird initiating juggernaut.
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CaptainMårvelous
(NA)
The Yetii Rider
(NA)
Boards are just a negative place in general. You don't see people talking about fun new ideas, asking questions, or having a good time playing League. People don't have any reason to post anything that isn't negative.
I don't think this is any different than people who don't show appreciation for pro diversity when it exists, or for mage players continuously requesting new itemization when the other players don't outwardly express appreciation for their itemization. When things are good, there's no reason to talk at all.
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Riot MapleNectar
(NA)
:
Preseason Dev Update Number 3!
With all the extra cannon minions coming into the game, is the gold reward for cannons going to be adjusted? Seems like this is going to heavily frontload laning income while seemingly not affecting the jungler or support income that much.
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