D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: Because you need to remember what rupture does? Idk what you can't understand when I say that reading a spell = / = remembering the spell the burden on the enemies is to remember that rupture does damage when they move, it doesn't matter if it has clarity or not since the spell has clarity (you bleed when you move) Invoker in dota2 is the same, which is why Morello said that in an old post asking invoker to be designed in league. Invoker requires the enemies to learn all his spells and REMEMBER them. now what people say is "you need to do that on any champion", but the difference is that it takes more effort and time to learn and remember 15 spells than 4 which is the point of Morello, and Xypherous in an other post I didn't show.
You have to remember what EVERY spell does. What makes Rupture in specific worth calling out?
: > [{quoted}](name=Ashe mage AD,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7PKW8u1o,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-25T12:41:09.218+0000) > > Talk about crippling lmao. You're crippling yourself by loosing the vision game. What you're saying shouldn't work consistently not even in Silver lol, much less any higher. > {{sticker:sg-ahri-3}} Vision doesn't matter Bellow a certain skill level. Even Riot admits that.
Ooo, that's a self-burn, very rare!
: Support items are crippling.
It's telling that most of the people complaining about the support item changes are just going "I just saw a support do X!" instead of actually, you know... playing support.
Noraver (NA)
: Honestly I've just been building Frozen Heart on every Support now because I lack mana to do anything. It sucks, but hey, it's a temporary fix. Just need to chill when people start spam-clicking your Warden's Mail.
Have you tried building, you know, Forbidden Idols instead? Or even like a Tear, so that you can transition into Seraph Staff, which grants you about as much survivability in addition to stronger heals and utility effects, considering most supports have some flavor of AP utility scaling?
: Playing supp feels like ass
I've yet to share your experience, apparently. Been supporting quite a bit and I usually get to about 2-3 items in a 20-30 minute game, not counting boots and support item which only eat up, what, 1,500g of the 7,000g-10,000g I've been making per game?
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: No, it's not about clarity, it's about knowledge reading a spell and remembering what it does is two different things, remembering the 5 different weapon passives and their Q and ult is putting a burden on the enemies. As Morello stated when he talked about invoker, it's a clear and classic case of burden of knowledge that ANY designer should know about.
So why was their go-to example an ability that, again, requires a single sentence to describe?
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: What happened to Zileas's design philosophy?
I'm gonna be honest, I don't understand how he's hard to read from an outside perspective. Yeah, he's got a lot of words, but they're all words describing a lot of very simple things. "This rifle has long range." "This flamethrower has an AoE." "This gravity ball slows." Really, excruciatingly simple concepts, and the only complex thing is the sheer number of them. But even that's not a problem for a player facing him, because you don't NEED to keep an article up on the second monitor to know what he's doing because he can only do a third of that at any given time! Y'all are blatantly misunderstanding the concept of "Burden of Knowledge." It's not about word count, it's about clarity. "Rupture damages you if you move" is the thing they bring up, and that's a six word, nine syllable sentence.
: How to fix support items
I mean... there isn't any reason to rework them, they're fine as-is. You don't NEED the gold generation passive late game (Well, Tribute at least, Spoils of War gives tanks the ability to actually wave clear which I do actually miss), especially since the 1100g you aren't spending on upgrading your item is straight cash flow back into whatever else you could need. By the time having your gold gen passive in the late game would exceed that, all six slots of yours would be filled anyways.
Rioter Comments
: After playing supp around D1 elo, I think the new items are ok except for one thing:
I've played a shitload of support since the preseason drop, and I can safely say I've NEVER noticed the loss of gold from CSing late game. Not the once. More importantly, if what you need is to clear waves, the gold is probably a secondary concern when compared to getting minions off of your tower or out of the way of your own minions.
: Honestly, if you were always making 1,100 gold or less per match with gold income items before this update, your matches likely either didn't last very long for whatever reason or you didn't know how to use the items to begin with. As someone who plays way too much support, I consistently earned over 1,100 gold with whatever gold income item I chose regardless of winning or losing.
You seem to have some sort of severe reading comprehension problem. I'm not talking about the total gold earned from across the entire match, Tiers, 1, 2, and 3. Just the Tier 3 item. How much gold did THAT ever generate for you, not counting the cold generated from your Tier 1 or Tier 2 item? Is that a simple enough concept for you to grasp? Because news flash, the new Tier 1 and 2 support items still generate plenty of cash.
: This is going to end pretty badly, much worse than Kalista (RIP), unless his numbers are perfectly balanced, he'll be absolutely busted. From what I can see, Aphelios will be an extremely safe champ in the right hands due to his Jack-of-all-trades kit (Self-Peel, In-built sustain, poke+ seemingly powerful follow ups to it, Waveclear and sustained damage. The only thing that seems to be missing is burst damage, unless his ultimate's numbers are overturned. Until we see how his kit will work on PBE, there isn't any 100% certainty on whether his kit will have to be nerfed or, in an unlikely situation, buffed. He seems like an adc that requires you to know how to play every type of adc Poke (Ezreal, Cait), All in (Lucian, Kalista), Hardcarry (Kai'sa, Kog'maw) Self-Peeling (Ashe, Xayah). Needless to say, this new champion's release and lifespan is going to be one hell of a show. BTW, he's probably going to be primarily built as an on-hit/hybrid champion, cause that ALWAYS ends well. Good day everyone!
You'd have some semblance of a point if he had any control over his guns, but as is you need to be putting a big fat "Or" inbetween all of the things he's got. He's got sustain OR waveclear OR self peel OR poke. Not AND.
: Another overloaded kit
Remember kids, if a champion's above your reading level, call it overloaded.
: A new champion without insane mobility? Wack.
I feel like the "Wow new champ so mobile very surprise" meme is officially dead. Of the champions released in the last year, Senna, Neeko, and Yuumi all have minor-to-medium speed buffs at most, and Quyana is an assassin who SHOULD be highly mobile. The only real offender is Sylas who... yeah. E could probably JUST be the chain grab and he'd still have all the mobility he needs.
Kazekiba (NA)
: Yeah cuz Neekos entire kit is copy pasted. Galio/LeBlanc/Zyra/Nunu
"I want abilities to be simple but never have been used before." You're like that Courage the Cowardly Dog bit with the baby Muriel.
: To a cap though, right? So it benefits whoever wants to get their first item fastest, really. I don't feel like {{item:3174}} is like a super hard spike or anything.
No, but the 500g you aren't spending can be spent on the missing stats you're complaining about, which is kind of the point. If Frostfang losing 50% mana regen is so impactful that you just can't live without it... Faerie Charm exists.
: I'm not excited for this. While rare, the idea that you can get an additional 40% cdr from cloud drakes is downright insane. And 20% execution thresh hold from elder drake makes outplays at low health even less tangible. I hate how the game is being streamlined to win or lose faster. And with treeline's removal I'm basically forced to deal with this terrible RNG that I don't have power over and won't know in select. It seems like more and more skill is being traded for coin flip. Lowering botlane's individual agency by nerfs to supports AND their ability to level up through waves AND making the dragons decide the fate of the entire game? In what world will that not mean " four bot, gank until they can't stand". Please, reassess these numbers at the very least. Let me play strategically.
You literally can't get that 40% Ult CDR without letting your opponent take the first two dragons, getting Cloud drake for the Soul, and then not missing a single dragon past that point. Over the course of about 25 minutes. In a game that's already gone on for about 20 at that time. So you simultaneously have to be losing hard enough to lose first two drakes, but gain enough map control to take 4 in a row... And even then the 40% Ult CDR isn't additive so at most you're looking at a 64% total CDR without factoring in things like Ultimate Hunter or Cosmic Insight. So... yeah. I'm not thinking it's going to be as big of an impact as you might think.
: Its not, you get 1 item MAYBE from the gold you now don't have to spend, And you lose all the gold gen you have the second you hit tier 3. This is awful.
Someone's never actually played support. How much gold did the Tier 3 support items actually generate in the games you played? And, more importantly, was it more than 1100g? Because if it wasn't (And it wasn't), you're still coming out ahead, because you didn't have to SPEND 1100g upgrading your support item to tier 3.
: So nothing for supports that want to start mana or cdr? Another screw you to enchanters?
Speaking as a support main, what are you smoking? Getting a free 500g extra to work with in the early game should give you all you need to pick up any mana regen or CDR you're missing from the Tier 2 item you would've bought.
Sherogarth (EUNE)
: Lets face it: Mordekaiser's ult will become a balancing nightmare.
If you're doing so poorly as Morde that taking yourself out of the fight for 5 seconds just to bully the support is a good use of your time, things have already gone horribly wrong.
: What to do when a duelist splitpushes, and you are a support or tank(anyone who doesn't deal damage)
Here's what you do whenever a teammate isn't doing their job: Ask them for help. Be respectful. Guide them to doing things correctly without being a jerk. If that doens't work? Well that's life. Sometimes the matchmaker will just fuck you.
: Poppy 2.0: return of the low counterplay.
The problem with Poppy's ult was that she could just ignore her target and bludgeon every other person on your team to death. At least Morde is locked into an actual 1v1.
Kurø ˉ (NA)
: Yuumi Invisibility "Exploit"
Given she has a single damaging basic ability, I feel like the actual potential is minimal. This isn't like Zoe's stars from across the map, we're talking about a dedicated two-man team throwing out a single guided missile ever six seconds. It's a meme build. Obnoxious but not dominant.
: Iverns passive means he will walk to your buff, while you're starting the opposite side, he'll mark yours both of his and then probably another camp of your as well. Let's say you start blue side, by the time you've cleared gromp blue wolves, if you clear like that. He has already taken your red raptors, his blue, his red, and is taking the scuttles. If your team does the bronze tactic of "guard tower level 1" He will take your entire jungle and you'll never touch him. Also he can escape you the same way thresh does, he throws a Q over a wall to a camp, and then flies to it. He's pretty tanky with shields as well and can break your vision. Sure we won't win the duel but you can't just get a free kill on him.
Unless of course you and a teammate, knowing Ivern is going to try this, wait to ambush him. Like smart players do to counter him. Which, again, in no way, shape, or form relates to my suggested change.
: Devourer?
It's been a while, forgot the name changed to Bloodrazer.
: I have tested Kai Sa on the PBE and I‘m aware that she has several AP scalings in her kit. I wonder though if it’s ever possible to go full ap caster on her since her W is slow, doesn’t deal aoe damage (wave clear) and has a nasty delay before the projectile gets launched. There is also no way to animation cancel her W. So isn’t she supposed to be able to go full AP caster? I‘ve also tried some builds which enable all of her abilities: Berserkers, Nashors, Rageblade, Wits End, Liandries and Lord Dominiks. I wonder if that build would deal more physical or magic damage to her enemies. Lastly, I would like to add that I‘ve tested her in practise tool for two hours on the PBE and I desperately tried to find good combos and animation cancels on her. The only things I found were Q->any ability, E->R, Q->flash, E->flash, R->flash. This seems like a lot, but most of these combos are very situational. If you could make her W or E more susceptible to animation canceling it would be much more to learn and master this champion I imagine. Animation cancels are in my eyes not about balance in the first place, but more about fun, learning curve and exploration of playing a champion. That’s all from me. Thanks for making such an interesting champion!
Q scales on AP and clears waves, and she has on-hit AP scaling damage. Playing her as a straight AP and CDR only caster... seems like a waste, but AP is very, very good on her.
: Pretty sure she won't. They already preemptively gave her as he said the worst level scaling in the game because riot is all about diversity. I mean she even has her own support interactions when getting shielded or healed, do you really think riot wants her to be viable anywhere but botlane? The only other role they might want to see her is jungle and even then it is questionable. I imagine her being played everywhere first, people notice her short range makes her shit botlane. So riot nerfs everything that makes her good in other roles, give her more range and force her botlane as they did the last two years with every champ. Riot doesnt want diversity at all. Ekko, camille, kayn. Just off the top of my head. Graves and kindred anyone?
"Riot doesn't want diversity!" As they release a champ that's viable for three of the five in-game roles (Bot, Jungle, and Mid, with potential Top) and has quite literally the largest build diversity in the game.
: {{item:1412}} {{item:3006}} {{item:3124}} {{item:3115}} {{item:3153}} {{item:3812}} Thoughts?
Curious as to why Warrior over Devourer. Especially given her poor base AD and high amounts of magic damage, Lifesteal seems a waste on her. Gunblade and Devourer basically cover everything you'd need Warrior + BotRK + Death's Dance for outside of CDR, which given you've freed up an entire item slot for that, shouldn't be too hard.
: Wait, so is it that the first hit counts as a normal, single target spell and additional are DoTs, or are all hits DoTs?
First hit is a normal single-target spell, all the ones with reduced damage count as DoT.
: Interesting idea - I think the alive callout has very specific use cases (when youre pushing base and tracking death timers), but a "in fow" or "missing" seems really slick. That being said, other people may like it saying "alive", would need to do more digging first but I like the suggestion as a simple tweak.
Maybe "Alive, Missing" "Alive, Visible" and 'Very much not Alive"
: List of champs that have a spin move
> [{quoted}](name=Clockwork Mouse,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=q9dW5gRa,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-02-26T16:09:19.973+0000) > > {{champion:161}} His Void Rift, can't open a rift into another dimension without spinning. How true that is...
: Is it bad that the support manages to kill the enemy ADC?
You didn't bow and scrape to appease the ADCs every want and desire? YOU FAILURE!
: > [{quoted}](name=The5lacker,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3XiHHbEM,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-02-26T05:40:07.421+0000) > > Because he was designed ages ago and his passive is a mini Mundo Ult? Mini doesn't mean op. We have tahm, garen, and warwick that have passive abilities that do more.
Because apparently all passive abilities that relate to healing must all be measured on the same scale. Volibear's Passive allows him to win trades he otherwise wouldn't be able to, on top of the strengths of the rest of his kit. Abilities cannot ever be considered in isolation. Rather than just going "BUT THE END OF GAME HEALING NUMBERS!" consider what Voli's passive actually _allows him to do._ It's a hefty self-heal on a bruiser with a number of tools that allow him to get into the middle of fights and stay there, and his passive is a part of that. This is an entirely different ability from Garen's or Tahm's, which are more about patching up after skirmishes as opposed to sustaining within, and it's very different from Warwick's sustain which is dependent on him dealing damage, which can be stopped. It's, again, a mini Mundo Ult, granting Volibear unconditional high sustain whether he's in the middle of a fight or leaving it, allowing him to survive in places he should otherwise die. It's not an ability that should have any higher of an uptime than it currently does, and it's probably the most frustrating part of his kit, especially given the lack of communication to opponents about its status.
Rewt (NA)
: Due to BE gain being so much lower than IP gain for someone who plays in binges. Its shit for me to buy a champ outright instead of waiting for the shard. Also since BE costs for getting mastery upgrades on champs costs My life savings and half my liver i have to save BE where i can.
A champ shard for a champ you already have grants you BE equal to roughly 25% of the base cost of the champion, and you can't get shards for champs under 4800 BE. You're getting around 1000-1500 BE per-shard, on top of the BE from First Win of the Day and all of the events they run nowadays. Mastery BE costs are half a new champion. And they're going down in the next patch. Cool your jets.
: No, If he shields camps he becomes even more annoying that he is. Just cockblocking the enemy jungler, which he can already counterjungle harder than nunu he is completely uneccesary and works fine as a support jungler cockblocker.
Except that his primary counterjungling strategy involve him wandering in unnoticed, smiting a whole camp, and then wandering out unnoticed. If Ivern is ever actually interacting with the enemy jungler he's screwed. No escape or dueling potential whatsoever. Trolling the enemy jungle with the intent on shielding an enemy monster, without even being able to then cause them to miss smite and steal it out from under them given, you know, Ivern can't actually _do that_, means this change wouldn't actually change his counterjungling at all. It'd more be useful for Ivern to communicate to teammates that, no really, stop stealing his jungle and murdering his friends.
: shielding monsters is actually really strong. If done correctly, could cause a failed smite from the enemy jungler then you or your team could steal the now low health camp. If this applied to epic monsters, dragon for example, it drops to 700 enemy jungler has a 780 smite, lets say ivern shields for 300 (idk his ratios or actual shield at all). so now the dragon has 1,000 "health" the jungle smites right as you shield, bringing it down to 220. he autos lowering it even further and now you or your team can get an easy steal off of that. or you can just smite after he did for the steal.
It clearly wouldn't apply to Epic monsters, Ivern can't befriend them.
Rewt (NA)
: A change i would actually like to see to the box system
You can convert them into Blue Essence or higher tier Masteries. There's plenty of use for them even if you pull duplicates.
: Why I hate Zoe
Yeah but she doesn't also have strong healing, traps, and close-range execution potential, so I'd still rather fight her over Nid any day of the week.
darkdill (NA)
: Why does Volibear's passive have to have a 2-minute cooldown all game long?
Because he was designed ages ago and his passive is a mini Mundo Ult?
Hibeki (NA)
: "something simple like increasing stats on every champion potentially causing problems instead of putting it on an item" You realize how backwards that sounds?
Terozu (NA)
: You only really need recent knowledge.
What constitutes "Recent Knowledge"? If you booted up the game for the first time in a year in January, would the 5 bonus damage added in November of last year count as "Recent Knowledge"?
Rioter Comments
: Personal note. Making Morello's deal Grievous Wounds at all levels of health is certainly welcome, but the rest of the stat changes make it unappealing for Supports. An anti-healing item with stats aimed more for supports would be extremely appreciated for games where I need to spec into that.
Your anti-healing tech as a support is hard CC. Can't heal if they're stunned.
: Don't you need {{champion:420}} for that?
Don't you need a time machine for that?
Zeanix (OCE)
: [Gameplay] Range champions can proc relic shield passive
The only thing that doesn't triggered on ranged champs is the extra death threshold. Ranged champions have always been able to trigger Relic Shield so long as they got the kill. They just made it easier to get the kill on melee champions.
Aenaeus (NA)
: Why did Riot remove Zephyr?
Zephyr was a boring ball-o-stats item whose stats were incredibly niche. Not saying I don't think it shouldn't be in the game, just saying that comparing it to other underpicked items that are doing something actually interesting isn't exactly fair. Zephyr was useless _and boring._
: With how much work went into the new Star Guardian Game mode...
It's like Riot forgot Custom Games are a thing that's already in their Client, and has been since the damn game launched
: Baron should receive a gameplay update
Baron isn't supposed to be this high-end RPG-esque five-hour fight. The goal of the game is to end at some point. None of these suggestions actually improve the gameplay of the game as a whole. They just sacrifice clarity in favor of spectacle.
Rioter Comments
Yuyiyo (NA)
: Can we talk about life steal?
That's a whole lot of under-the-hood calculations. Easier solution? Have Lifesteal just be 33% effective against Minions. Every ADC gains ludicrous sustain mid-game once they realize buying Lifesteal means they'll start out-healing their support just from clearing a single wave.
Show more


Level 50 (NA)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion