: We live in a world where it's a legitimate possibility there is NO ADC for the World's Skins
: im talking late game its 4 people left, and you beat 2 out of 3 of the teams left and its just the guy running yordle dragons you cant beat and you need a immediate fix to your problem.. i know there are teams that can scale into countering it, but i mean more the "its a problem now, and its to late to restart a comp" kind of situation
> [{quoted}](name=I Like Teemo,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=KsnzkAI2,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-10-11T00:45:55.804+0000) > > im talking late game its 4 people left, and you beat 2 out of 3 of the teams left and its just the guy running yordle dragons you cant beat and you need a immediate fix to your problem.. i know there are teams that can scale into countering it, but i mean more the "its a problem now, and its to late to restart a comp" kind of situation Are you saying that it's too difficult to pick one out of six comps to pick into them? Even splashing in some key units works wonders in disrupting their team. Or if you prefer you can always try to deny them units by holding them if you can spare some gold also devastates their later game and I'd say it's worth it if they're literally the only player you can't deal with. I'd say it's far less fair for an item to literally remove your entire trait bonus, especially one that requires as heavy of an investment as yordles does, when there are plenty of methods to work around it. Like I get the frustration, I hate it when they dodge all my shit too but things need to be fair for both ends.
: thankfully Shaco is only getting his starting clear nerfed
> [{quoted}](name=SnackerMore,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=EjAE8MFc,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-10-14T14:07:09.291+0000) > > thankfully Shaco is only getting his starting clear nerfed That's good to hear, he's not that much of a problem outside of the scary fast level 3.
: tft rapidfire replacement
Well since yordles for the most part have fairly poor health compared to their peers on each tier you could always brute force them down. A reasonable yordles comp is generally only 60% dodge chance. Stacking up against slingers or blademasters they're usually will still get pounded from the sheer volume of attacks. If you're unwilling to go either of those you could always try to add the Wild bonus into your comp somewhere, assassins generally fit it in quite nicely, as do shapeshifters and some brawler variants. And of course you could just use sorcerers or elementalists seeing as they can't dodge spells at all. Honestly there's plenty of counterplay options against yordles and they're hardly much of an issue atm, especially with the recent nerfs to poppy.
Lapis (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=TheCheekySneak,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0pyFdzHl,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2019-10-04T03:35:54.485+0000) > > I'd honestly just suggest grabbing a pal and doing a 1 v 1. Good way to pick up on how to cs under poke pressure. If you'd like you can add me and I'd be more than happy to help out. Thanks for the offer but I don't have an NA account, and if I did I don't think i'd be able to cs properly under the lag lol
> [{quoted}](name=Lapis,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0pyFdzHl,comment-id=00140000,timestamp=2019-10-04T03:36:42.417+0000) > > Thanks for the offer but I don't have an NA account, and if I did I don't think i'd be able to cs properly under the lag lol No worries, best of wishes anywho.
Lapis (OCE)
: What's the easiest role to learn how to farm on?
I'd honestly just suggest grabbing a pal and doing a 1 v 1. Good way to pick up on how to cs under poke pressure since no lane is going to just let you farm for free. If you'd like you can add me and I'd be more than happy to help out.
: Theres this one item thats really good against yordles called firecannon, try it out
Not anymore, they removed the part about it ignoring dodge now.
: Blitzcrank is going to need hotfix nerfs at this rate
It should be noted however that they either are or have since done a stealth hotfix of sorts. The range is still increased but their fixing the "lollipop" that the pull used to have. Putting it simply the hook will now absolutely only reach as far as it shows in the animation and not any further like how Naut and Thresh grabs tend to. All in all the buff is much more minor now, the pulls that showcase how blitz can grab those buffs in that one video for instance are no longer possible. He may still need some more tweaks but I'm thinking that with some adjustment time he'll even out.
: Let's Discuss Morde
I can see that you're having some trouble with the guy, we all have that one champ who stomps on us all hard too so I can empathize with you. Anywho I think I can at least help you out a bit. For the most part Morde is heavily countered by mobility, which I'm sure you're already aware of since you pointed it out. Still it can't be understated that mobility hurts him quite a bit as it negates his primary method of lining up reliable q's and passive procs with his e/q/auto combo. Furthermore keeping minions between you and him is a good method of reducing his damage as his q does far more when you're isolated and doesn't chunk until he gets some items. The real troublemaker when you're fighting him is his passive, if you're playing a melee character it lets him slap your cheeks pretty early on. In general Morde is something like a slightly more forgiving Zed in that unless you can kite him out (not too difficult for heavy cc or fairly mobile champs) he forces you to counter build him to a degree. {{item:3194}} is your best friend here. Most of his damage comes in the form of his low cd q and his passive ticks, which the helm effectively counters well. The ult on the other hand is much more of a sticking point, the counter play for that is vastly different depending on the type of champ you play. If you're a duelist you can always just straight up try to fight him in there, however to do so it is imperative to dodge the e and as many q's as possible to delay the passive from activating quickly. If you're a mage your best bet is to either burst him if possible or chain together your cc and always keep a distance, you're not trying to beat him in the ult so much as just last until it ends, {{item:3157}} or {{item:2420}} can help you out in the final few seconds you need. Adc's and anyone else you can use {{item:3139}} or {{item:3140}} can just bust out straight away since it lets them skip out of the ult entirely. Other than that he's a juggernaut, he's slow, melee and survivable as all hell. You win by making him come to you and not making it easy by initiating on him when he's still in fighting shape. I'd suggest not starting anything with him when his shield is near full as he's itching to use it for a shield, it's best to wait until he uses it for the heal and then go to town.
Meep Man (NA)
: Champion With More Than One Dash, A Short Hard CC, And an Ult That Gives Them a Stat/Passive Boost
Jamaree (NA)
: You are a level down, had no health or magic resistance, on a naturally squishy champion, of course the single target burst caster is going to one shot. Also, how is someone playing Kayn gonna complain about bullshit burst potential, you are fucking Kayn, you can do the same thing while your AoE hard cc does damage, unlike Veigars, on a shorter cd while also having survability?
Not even just that, but the Veigar was clearly using Electrocute for even more damage and likely had cheap shot as well to further reduce Kayn's already meager defenses. But I doubt op is gonna take a moment to think about things. He's clearly just salty/venting and isn't likely to be receptive to dissenting opinions.
: Tahms W did put a Mark on enemies if he spat a minion at them. The problem was when they made Tahms QW combo cost literally no mana.
Huh, I forgot about that. I haven't seen a Tahm do that in one of my games for so long that it must have slipped my mind. Anywho he definitely needed some nerfs/power rebalancing but taking out the passive stack on his q is a pretty serious impact. Nobody likes having things shaved off of their champ's kits.
: How does Braums W and E place Stacks on a person exactly? Or Kaisa R and E?
They don't, but neither did Tahm's. He meant the q's and I'm fairly sure you already knew that.
Sh1prek (NA)
: Unerf Pyke
Why bother making two posts? The opinions you'll receive are only going to be the same.
Warlogue (EUW)
: Hecarim's E.
His E is an auto attack enhancer, you can't flash an auto attack therefor you can't flash/dodge/mobility spell away from his E once its animation starts.
Lovelle (NA)
: SR bot lane ruining everything as always, I wasn't aware that lane even could be balanced. If that's the case, why not make the item melee only? Even if it wasn't, as long as the damage scaled with levels, like {{item:3091}}, it wouldn't be ideal to rush, even for the champions it scaled best with.
If it was melee only it might work out, however we still should likely think about how such an item would shift the game in general. Tanks are fairly frail at the moment and introducing another item that empowers the more damage focused characters while leaving the tanks in the dust will only further drop their relevance. Truthfully I'm not against the idea itself as more items make for more diversity but I think that we still have some bigger priorities to handle first.
Lovelle (NA)
: Armor + Attack Speed Item
It's unlikely to happen simply because it would ruin bot lane's balance. The first person who can afford it will buy it and be able to both tank the opponent and output more damage. It's the same reason why there aren't many ad/armor items.
rujitra (NA)
: The issue with meta balance is it’s even harder than champion balance. Because there’s 10-20 champions that are reliably in each class in the meta (i.e. tank, assassin, etc), to balance the meta requires that there be an *enforced* meta - which is something Riot is trying to avoid. As an example, Overwatch is trying something new where they’re forcing each team to run a 2-2-2 comp - and in doing so, they can more easily make sure each individual class isn’t too OP, because each team is limited to (and must have) 2 of that class. On the other hand, in League, you can run 5 tanks if your team wants, you can run 5 assassins, 5 AD carries, 5 whatever you want - or you can run 1/0 of each class. Given that, Riot has to balance making sure that a team of 5 tanks/whatever isn’t going to be too OP, but also making sure that a comp with 0/1 of the class is powerful enough to make them want to be played. Just as an example with tanks, Riot has to balance the desire to ensure certain tanks are OP, while also making sure that the itemization doesn’t cause non-tank champs to become more viable played as tanks. Right now, there are quite a few non-tank champions who are “too OP” when played with tank items - one I can think of (and have actually had a lot of success with) is playing tank Karma support - build ardent censer, then rush full tank with randuins/rylais/etc depending on the enemy composition. Karma isn’t intended to be played as a tank, but she’s so OP because the itemization for her as a support/APC doesn’t lend well to her kit. I’ve seen some good changes this season but I agree that I wish there was more done - but it’s very very hard, and so I can understand why it’s hard for Riot to balance.
I'm pretty sure that Riot has long since started enforcing the meta, between lane specific buffs and nerfs and the whole debacle with bot lane diversity. Honestly I agree with you that it must be hard to balance the game well but I can't say that Riot are honestly attempting to do so. They're not balancing with actual balance in mind, my impression of the changes this season have been that they're trying to push for the more mechanically intensive champs to be played and sidelining the more slow paced and strategic ones. It may be a meme to say but Riot is prioritizing watching league much more than playing it, only really addressing champs if there is either too much complaining by the masses (Eg. that one Riven 'nerf', Tahm's gutting ect.) or they are actively allowing super passive play styles to compete with more aggressive approaches.
: TFT Rooster change [who is added/ who needs to be removed]
Rockman (NA)
: Tim Hortons is overrated
Not much to say other than it gets real cold and they have decent coffee, they're our version of starbucks.
RéktSai (NA)
: Yordles. Seriously.
They also can't dodge spells so sorcerers work well against them
: Who do you think will be TFT's 52nd champ
I'm not too sure that Riven would be a blademaster brawler. Personally I can see her as an Brawler exile.
spasaddy (NA)
: so you think that mirrors playing each other is a bad idea? why? the point of ranked is to beat your opponent and the "better" player gain points and advance up the ranked system, what better way to see who is the better player than 2 people having an equal oppertunity at playing the same champ...how many times have you seen people go 1v1 in lane and one of them loses and they challenege them to a 1v1 where they both play the same champ to see who is better.. happens 1/5 games for me
I think that having to only deal with the same op champs every game is indeed a bad idea. Like I said earlier certain champs are just going to be better than others, usually by a significant amount. Players who either need a crutch or are simply trying to take every advantage for the win are going to pick said champions. This will of course result in a great increase in mirror matches and that will lead to a lack of diversity in games and for those who try to break the mold they will inevitably get slapped by the offending out-of-line champs. More diversity is always preferable over a stagnant state, it's why Riot makes changes so often, why they introduce more champions into the game, and why they do random game modes at all. I understand that you likely feel that if you could just choose your champ you could probably win all your games at a 75% rate or some other silly number, but let me elucidate something for you because you seem rather stuck on this point. This is a 5 v 5 game, even if you happen to do well and beat your opponent there is no guarantee you win the game. Other lanes can win as well and shut you out, or maybe the jungler comes and stomps on you in order to prevent his laner from losing. What would you have Riot do then? Stop other players from leaving their lanes until the game is over? Erase jungling in it's entirety? Beyond that being "better" isn't just about one's mechanical skill. I'm sure you already know this but skill in this game is measured in numerous ways, including champion knowledge, wave management, teamfighting, target priority ect. But what you may not realize is that being proficient at many champs is also a skill, and one that is rewarded in this system. If you want to crow on about two players pitting their skills against each other then I'm afraid to say that they already are, just not in a way you'd prefer. As for that whole 1 v 1 me thing, I haven't heard anybody say that in a game in literal years, so I can't really say that it's all that common personally, not that it matters since 1 v 1ing is a terrible metric for skill in LoL.
spasaddy (NA)
: remove bans and the ability to not have dup champs in games...
It isn't a rare event for champs to be wildly overpowered. Between the different items, runes and the sheer amount of champs in the game there will always be a clear outlier in performance, usually more than one in fact. Bans are the simplest solution to this problem, they also serve as a metric for further balancing. In your scenario we would commonly see mirror matches of the most op champs of the patch, and I'm sorry but that is just not very likely to ever happen. For ranked that is, like others have said blind pick exists and it's basically exactly what you want.
: Riot, will you ever nerf OP tahm kench in top lane?
He's being gutted in the PBE, I'd suggest you'd take a look.
NY64 (NA)
: What do you think is the champ tier list in TFT?
Pyke and Lulu warp the game pretty rough too
: If he goes attack speed doesn't that mean he can stun more often now? Since his Q will clear the passive, that means he can restack it while the target is stunned right? I don't play tahm kench though so I don't know.
Rushing attack speed on the nerfed tahm is going to be practically inting since his shield is getting gutted. At the moment people could already stun lock folks because the stacks wouldn't fall off unless they were devoured so the plan is to usually spam the q at them and stun them on cd. But right now he won't be getting his passive damage on any of his spells and compound that with his q slow being destroyed and by how it seems to be worded his q wont even add a stack on hit anymore, all in all he's going to plummet in winrate. He's only at around 49% as is so with this he's likely going to drop to the low 40's or even high 30's
: His passive still gives him damage. Except, it's all in the Max % HP now. 2.5% instead of 1.5%. Which covers what he lost in the OTHER part of his passive (they basically simplified it). Q isn't losing much except its cooldown. In fact the duration of both the stun and slow is getting a substantial buff. The strength of the slow's going down, but 3 sec duration = more time to catch up and hit the next one.
Ah, I read it as he was just getting 2.5% more health as his passive rather than a damage thingy. It's good to hear they aren't just tossing him away. However he still won't be getting that damage on his spells anymore, nor will he be able to chase people down with the q slow nerf since even if it lasts longer it's actual slow is so much worse, I still think that this is a gutting all in all, and he's probably going to plummet back to the low 40's again.
: PBE 7/1 Opinions.
Tahm is getting a nice buff to his healing sure, but they are also nerfing his q in most ways, his passive doesnt give him damage anymore at all and when he stuns someone with q it consumes the stacks. After this the poor guy is going to the gutter, likely were Riot wants him at this point.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: 9.14 changes according to Riot Repertoir (Blitzcrank, Leona, Akali, Lux, Tahm kench)
Tahm may as well not exist after these changes in all honesty
finecuts (NA)
: Team Fight Tatics
Phantoms only consist of three units: Mordekaiser, Kindred and Karthus. Morde is already horrible as he is with his pathetic stats and relatively useless spell, so if Kindred were to jump up and not be available until the late game there may as well not even be a phantom origin.
: Mord ult should be dodgable,
Any champ with a move that lets them become untargetable for a period of time can actually dodge the ult. That list includes:{{champion:164}} {{champion:60}} {{champion:28}} {{champion:245}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:141}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:498}} Then there are champs which temporarily blink out of the game altogether with specific moves like:{{champion:35}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:238}} {{champion:421}} Champs with with on demand spellshields:{{champion:25}} {{champion:56}} {{champion:15}} And of course {{champion:41}} who can eat an orange and escape as well as {{champion:114}} who can riposte it. Other than that zhonyas can buy you some time, qss lets you escape, and even without either there are options to evade him in the zone. CCing him is still effective, as is mobility. He's a bit overtuned atm but there are plenty of options to handle him if you really want to put in the effort to do so.
nelogis (EUW)
: I present you, the most anti synergy bot lane to ever exist in League History
This is bad sure, but I bet Kalista and Yuumi would be horrid as well
: For me the worst is when your support use relic shield when you are full life in lane. Lots of people have no ideia how to use properly during lane phase
True but a lot of them use one charge right away so that they can get some money and keep the other one/ones for the heal. That way there's a steady stream of income for the support while also trying to keep both themselves and their adc alive.
: > [{quoted}](name=Quinn Is Bae,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R4ZFhZn6,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-02T19:40:57.486+0000) > > garen require you to be low damage and if you ain't the villain it does magic damage so hexdrinker counter it.. Garen’s Ult does not require you to be low health. And if you are marked as a villain it does true damage, So hexdrinker does not work. Not to mention how shit an item hex drinker is into garen. 525 + 40% missing hp damage. Let’s say you are gangplank, with about 2000 hp. You get hit with garens q with triforce. 700 damage 1300 left He presses r. 40% missing is roughly 300 1000 left 525 ult damage 425 You were hit by 2 undodgeabke Abilities.
Garen is a melee character with no dashes, no means of stunning/slowing you down and a single move speed boost. He can do true damage to someone only under specific conditions and his big ticket ability is an ultimate that scales primarily with missing health. Sure he can build tankier than a Vayne but let's be real here tank stats aren't exactly amazing right now. On the flip side we got a ranged character who's doing large chunks of damage via a basic passive ability who is only gated by attack speed. In addition she has a short dash and a knockback that can actually turn into a stun based on positioning. And if all else fails she has an invis to go along with it as her own ultimate. There's no contest between the two, one has a far better ease of access to the true damage than the other, along with better ability to dish out damage safely to begin with. Trying to compare the two is silly, but honestly this topic isn't just about Vayne or Garen. It's about the issues that arise from Guinsoo's abilities and how it warps balanced/balanceable abilities and passives into something way more problematic. And really I'd much rather an item take a slap than a portion of a character's kit, because one is more self sufficient than the other.
Dr Dog (NA)
: can we all just be greatful for a second
It's is an upgrade for sure, especially with the increase in bans. However I'm still pretty unimpressed with the normals matchmaking in general so I'm still hoping for a few more changes.
: For pre season changes there is a big change that is gonna make many of us really mad
This would put a big hamper on champs who need the start up time to function well or who have pieces of their kit time locked. Champs like Shaco or Heimerdinger now have far less time to actually set up their nests and certain playstyles of Maokai will suffer much the same. Of course I'm biased in this as well since my main is Bard, and his chimes are locked to spawning only at certain times and now he will no longer be able to pick up his third chime, or maybe even any at all depending on his luck or the leash at hand. I can't say I'm for this.
: With the amount of bitching people do, what champs DO YOU GUYS PLAY?
I used to play a lot of {{champion:82}} until his rework, then {{champion:35}} before his rework top and jungle respectively. I generally try to play {{champion:45}} mid but all the assassins make that a chore. I generally don't play adc but when I do I prefer going {{champion:15}} but my main man is {{champion:432}}
: shaco #1 jungler. 58% winrate late game
Shaco has always been kinda like the Ezreal of assassins. By that I mean he's rarely a problem by himself but he's prone to breaking/abusing items since he has a very reliable means of shuttling himself to his target. With the way the game is atm it should be little surprise he's doing well, it is an assassin meta and duskblade is busted, that and of course the little bastard feeds on uncoordinated teams and that is basically what solo-q is.
: It's a FULL item. The components do not have a hybrid stat. 2800g vs 1100 Also, as a finished item Zhonya's is FAR more useful than GA. 45 Armor vs 40. 75 AP vs 40 AD. 10% CDR vs No CDR.
> [{quoted}](name=Illabethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Enw7djV7,comment-id=000200000000000100000000000100010001,timestamp=2018-07-05T22:05:21.057+0000) > > It's a FULL item. The components do not have a hybrid stat. > > 2800g vs 1100 > > Also, as a finished item Zhonya's is FAR more useful than GA. 45 Armor vs 40. 75 AP vs 40 AD. 10% CDR vs No CDR. Oooooh, that's what you meant. Sorry, figured you only meant that there wasn't one at all. Well then you're absolutely correct.
Amoc (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=TheCheekySneak,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Enw7djV7,comment-id=00020000000000010000000000010001,timestamp=2018-07-05T17:59:14.421+0000) > > I mean, GA is an AD/Armor item now. It even gives you a revive. The revive is grossly overrated. Sometimes it's useful, sometimes it's useless (worse actually). Given that nobody (even the tanks) survive long these days, by the time your GA goes through its 4s revive, most of your team might be dead already.
> [{quoted}](name=Amoc,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Enw7djV7,comment-id=000200000000000100000000000100010000,timestamp=2018-07-05T18:53:41.248+0000) > > The revive is grossly overrated. Sometimes it's useful, sometimes it's useless (worse actually). Given that nobody (even the tanks) survive long these days, by the time your GA goes through its 4s revive, most of your team might be dead already. Oh absolutely, I agree with the sentiment that armor is practically worthless. I'm just saying that there is indeed an AD/Armor item out there.
: I'm not apt to agree with Zed..... but.... There's no non AP equivalent item, that gives armor + AD, and the armor items don't relatively stop assassin builds, because they still do their normal AP damage in a Lethality item vs Armor world (after armor cancellations) reliably enough and early enough to get {{item:3071}} {{item:3033}} which DOES make armor useless.
I mean, GA is an AD/Armor item now. It even gives you a revive.
Tomoe Gozen (EUNE)
: Except that DQ was arguably the worst experience as a whole, there were also good changes that came out of it. Riot committed hard to fine tune position pick algorithms and autofill and they've made several passes in that regard. Whether or not they've taken the feedback to heart and should've not even released it in the first place, is irrelevant in this argument. > if the community in their game is mad at something then it's expected of them to fix it. The very fact that people can literally get mad over anything without any good reason, is not a reason why Riot should start listening to us when we come here to vent. It's the opposite in fact. If you have a point that something is a bad change to the game, then it is also easy for you to lay out your points in a constructive argument that people can always partake in. If you're always here spewing crap about how whoever made these changes should be fired, then Riot doesn't have to even acknowledge your post or you, even exist. This isn't true of course, Riot does read a lot of shit we say even if they don't respond to everything but such posts, even if right, are often not graced by a Rioter answering the question at hand because the poster is never looking for an answer. The moment RIoter comes and explains it, that's the moment they've made themselves a target for all the hate and downvotes for merely answering the question because angsty and edgy players were looking just that. A person to burn at the stake as the villain. This isn't justice. This isn't a discussion at that point. It's a witch hunt. And don't get me started about the argument "there have been a few concise posts detailing why these changes are bad and Riot still didn't do anything". The very fact that someone has a good point, it doesn't even mean that post now dictates what kind of changes RIot can and can't make. Again, giving feedback in the form of a forum post isn't like setting demands. Take for example, EXP and BE changes in this entire system. Riot said you get on average more than you ever did under the old system and then people basically came out angry based on their FEELINGS on how these changes are worse, instead of actual evidence. So then Riot came out with definitive math and proof (with graphs) detailing how progression works and what are the BE gains we should expect to see and THEY WERE DOWNVOTED to hell for just for providing evidence. People felt like the changes were worse than before and wanted proof. Riot says they aren't worse and give proof. People then still downvote said proof, calling it fabricated or choosing not to believe in facts BECAUSE it didn't fit their narrative. This is no way to have any discussions on the boards if this is how people act when they are proven wrong. --- Riot isn't right 100% of the time. They aren't above criticism and i'm not here whiteknighting on their behalf. Feel free to voice your concerns and opinions and direct those towards them but at least have the decency not to start a discussion as an open letter to Riot to go f themselves and by example, invite others to do the same. That's never a good path to take. Riot can at any point just say "fuck off" and close their doors, leaving the crybabies to cry all they want and genuinely not contribute to a single change from that point any more.
This is refreshing, both you and the OP have made this experience much more wholesome than I would have originally expected. It's nice to have a proper argument with someone who challenges your views rather than a shouting match, but my gratitude aside allow me to return to my point. I can agree on the fact that Riot has every right to ignore us as a whole and make any decision they want to. Some ideas haven't worked out the best and I can say that personally I feel this game has started to erode away, but that doesn't mean that every solution people come up with _needs_ to be taken into account, or any of them for that matter, nor do I expect it to. As I've already told the OP, I don't believe that we posters in general have any sway over Riot at all, not usually at least. We don't make up even close to the majority of players and we aren't the big spenders either. For the most part we can't effect anything to an appreciable degree. However I would like to clarify something, when I say community, I'm not referring to us, I mean the **whole** community. The DQ thing was displeasing to the **majority**, not just to us (although you are right in saying certain improvements came from this, but as a whole it was messy). Same with the Yas example, his ban rate wasn't the way it was from posters alone but rather the community as an entity. As for Riot answering posts of not I honestly don't care either way. All I care about is whether or not they're aware of the issues at hand and that people aren't pleased with what they're doing/did. Although I would like to say that Riot answering questions isn't 100% going to end with them being downvoted, I've personally only seen them get downvoted when they handle to situation poorly. Usually if they come in with a solution they can get by just fine, it only when they come in with something similar to what happened with Clash that they get reamed. An apology that feels forced or inadequate will obviously incite more irritation than it will calm. However I can't be absolutely sure on that since I tend to play more than post (my low post count may have given that away though.)
: > [{quoted}](name=TheCheekySneak,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=KdpMXXgy,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2018-05-26T04:58:14.273+0000) > A bug so game breaking not being discovered before this point is already a black spot on the white dress, but not letting everyone know until this late is a wine stain. Dang that's some heavy duty wine if it left a black spot O.O; (your responses have been most enjoyable and well spoken, well done good sir.)
Thank you, I find that points are generally easier to digest if they are enjoyable to read to some extent.
Tomoe Gozen (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=TheCheekySneak,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=KdpMXXgy,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-26T05:18:21.556+0000) > >We had confirmation from Riot that Yasuo was going to receive some form of kit rework due to the distaste the community held for Yasuo and how infuriating he can be to play against. This ended up quieting the crowd a bit but once everything calmed down they went back on their word and nothing went down. That's not how it went at all and you know it. The very fact that you're insinuating that Riot announced Yasuo's rework in order to "quiet down" a riled up crowd and then just dropped it without even committing to doing it is absurd. Projects like mini-reworks get iceboxed all the time, if there's not a good idea about how they'll go or if they don't get pass by the playtesting phase. Here are some examples: Lissandra's changes (her new passive) was announced but i don't think we ever saw a PBE release because Meddler didn't feel good about Liss viability. So he didn't want to introduce it as a change for the sake of a change, without actually fixing any of her problems. Likewise, Riven's edge mechanic and Lee's rework i believe was on PBE and nothing came out of those in the end, given the negative feedback and Riot's uncertainty in the good of those changes. Riot doesn't have to announce when they icebox a project or any change regarding any champion, if they don't really get past the testing phase where they feel the need to tell us about it. Otherwise, this information unintentionally ends up hyping up people and then get disappointed when nothing comes out of it. I remember them saying something about Yasuo's rework but i don't think this was a confirmation that it was in the works. I think he was mentioned as a "likely candidate" but there were other changes for crit users like him (and rune changes) that pegged him down a notch or two so he wasn't a priority at that time.
I am not insinuating it, I'm stating it. Yasuo at the time had an absurd ban rate, people were voicing their dissatisfaction at how irritating he was to play against and Riot released a statement saying that he was going to be receiving kit changes in the near future not due to his power but because of how frustrating he is. This had the effect of letting everyone know that Riot was looking into Yas and of course calmed down a good portion of the rage around him. Of course given the fact that Yasuo has remained the same it's clear that no changes have been made yet. Now people are starting to get up in arms about the guy again since Riot has assured us that the current boogeyman of overbearing ADC's is being taken care of so we'll see if the hate will return to the same levels as in the past soon. I'm not going to argue whether or not Riot has the right to icebox changes if they so choose to, of course they can, it's their game. All I'm trying to assert here is that they have a history of only attempting to go through with community inspired changes if there is enough vitriol behind it to melt away a cement block. The whole Dynamic Que/Solo Que controversy is of course the more prolific example of this and admittedly the one I should have used instead. Most here know what I'm referring to but I'll elaborate regardless since that's sort of what nerds like me do. When they introduced Dynamic Que in lieu of Solo Que they assured everyone that it would be returning in due time. Months passed and when Riot finally fessed up that they had no plans to actually reinstate Solo Que there was a shit storm so immense that I'm surprised they didn't have the minions hold umbrellas. Thanks to the tsunami of hate that came crashing into their shores Riot eventually scrapped Dynamic Que (which while innovative was a failure in practice) and brought back the same old tried and true Solo Que. I'm not saying I blame Riot for doing these things, most companies should/do, if the community in their game is mad at something then it's expected of them to fix it. I'm merely trying to say that posts only really tend to bring about change when they're mailed in huge heaps and with a rage stamp on each.
: Mmm, you're right about that. I've seen things change because of boards posts but more often than not they are trivial things that affect individual people regarding their accounts. Though regarding the Red Tracker, I don't blame Riot or any Rioters for not wanting to provide any further comment on this issue for the time being. It's a PR disaster, and the slightest misstep could turn the situation from bad to downright hideous. It's probably wise for them to wait for a bit of the rage to blow over and then elaborate on the issue. It's possible they won't respond on the boards at all about the issue, and that wouldn't surprise me either, but I'm not surprised they aren't doing it immediately if they do in fact have any plans of doing so. You're probably right about the quantity over quality thing as unfortunate as that is. I'd like to believe that encouraging well thought out discussion and criticism would yield better results as a whole, but perhaps not. Either way I'm just sick of seeing so many poorly written posts begging for free loot chests, ahhh. Thank you for this perspective on the situation, I really hadn't thought about it like that. And the other people responding to my posts aren't really elaborating on anything, just violently disagreeing with me and down-voting, the latter of which I don't blame them for.
Honestly thought out discussion would certainly lead to a better solution to the various poxes that infest the game in it's current iteration, however the problem arises in that Riot has shown a certain stubbornness in their approach to their inclusions. As far as what's been proven they aren't willing to take the advice of calm minded people on the forums, we simply don't draw that much attention to ourselves and even then our disposition makes us easy to ignore. The only times that any community driven change has occurred have been due to unmitigated outrage, and the movement has never been behind the flagship of a well outlined and reasoned post, only ever an erratic, nebulous rage post (or more often a conglomerate of them). And even then that only lasts for as long as the rage persists, and I believe the best case to showcase this was the supposed Yasuo mini-rework. We had confirmation from Riot that Yasuo was going to receive some form of kit rework due to the distaste the community held for Yasuo and how infuriating he can be to play against. This ended up quieting the crowd a bit but once everything calmed down they went back on their word and nothing went down. Anywho I hold the same belief that all the compensation posts are a bit cloggy and they don't really cut to the heart of the issue but really it's just something we're all going to have to weather through with until the ADC item changes ship out and we're privy to whatever comes of that.
: Isn't it a good idea to cancel an event if they think the players won't have as much fun because it's broken?
Absolutely, however it is also a good idea to give them sufficient warning so that they aren't surprised by the event suddenly being cancelled. Riot knew at least 6 hours before launch something was wrong but they didn't let NA know before 2 hours, and OCE got screwed even harder with only 25-30 minutes. A bug so game breaking not being discovered before this point is already a black spot on the white dress, but not letting everyone know until this late is a wine stain.
: I don't know, I think people are really REALLY overreacting about this... so yeah I agree with you. Sure Riot made a blooper, but these things happen, and people should accept it and move on. I'm also seeing comments like "I missed my daughter's softball game for this" or "I missed a concert for this"... of course not those examples exactly but complaints like this, some more personal. My thoughts on these? It's the playerbase's fault for blowing off such important events to play video games. Clash was going to happen multiple times throughout the year, so who cares if you miss one. Hanging with family, friends, and going to fun/personal events outside of the house come before video games, in my opinion.
Of course some personal accountability must be had for people cancelling big events for Clash, my axe to grind is mostly with the folks who used their vacation days for this. I can't really consider what they did to be a mistake since there are no big stakes for the decision but they did end up losing a day due to a screw up on Riot's part. The situation just sucks in general.
: Let me lead with the fact that I believe your response was well thought out and I appreciate your point of view on this. Also thank you for responding in a civil manner; I appreciate that greatly as well. I just think there is a better way to go about discussing the nightmare of Riot's way of handling the Clash situation. When people sit around chanting, screaming, and demanding compensation, there isn't a lot of room for actual criticisms and changes to be heard. I get people are upset over a lot of changes, and that this was probably the straw that broke the camel's back for a lot of people, but what good are hardly understandable knee-jerk-reaction posts going to do?
> Let me lead with the fact that I believe your response was well thought out and I appreciate your point of view on this. Also thank you for responding in a civil manner; I appreciate that greatly as well. > > I just think there is a better way to go about discussing the nightmare of Riot's way of handling the Clash situation. When people sit around chanting, screaming, and demanding compensation, there isn't a lot of room for actual criticisms and changes to be heard. > I get people are upset over a lot of changes, and that this was probably the straw that broke the camel's back for a lot of people, but what good are hardly understandable knee-jerk-reaction posts going to do? Civil discussion is a rarity in today's social climate in general, but you of course know my stance on that already so I'll just leave that be for the time being. More importantly I have to agree that hordes of people asking for compensation isn't going to change much. However it's not because some people don't deserve it but rather because Riot is not likely to hand out any. As for how we are going to get any changes out of Riot I hold the opinion that in general forum goers just don't hold much influence period. Doesn't matter if it's here or reddit (which I personally see as a tad censored) we are the minority in a vast sea of people. Granted we have a platform in which to voice our stances be they encouraging or not, but at the end of the day we aren't the lion's share of profits nor do we have access to the code of the game. All we have are our words. The way I see it the sheer volume of threads and posts about the topic at hand is our sole means of showing the game's officials our feelings on the state of the game. From my experience Riot just doesn't respond to posts written here as a rule. Hell, just going on the Red Tracker I can see that they aren't really responding to the issue here at all. Admittedly I'm rather pessimistic as a person but the way I see this going is that it isn't going to be the quality of the posts that will alert Riot at just how profoundly they screwed the pooch but rather the quantity.
: Unpopular Opinion
Have you ever heard the expression, carrot and stick? Well the garden ran out of carrots months ago, but there is still a whole forest of branches out there. With every screw up Riot makes the community gets just a little more fed up with the horseshit, unfortunately the timing of this particular colossal fuck up happened to coincide with the scuttle changes that are still ruffling feathers. This specific goof in particular crosses over from affecting just the game to messing with people's actual lives. The schedule changes that some people did to fit the release of Clash impacted them negatively and in a appreciable way. Most folks are simply out of patience with Riot, and no longer wish to be motherly about their disappointment. I can completely understand it if people just want to spit venom at them, more so with the repeated failures of Riot's updates. Now let me be crystal clear here, I don't think that Riot is some evil company staffed entirely by gremlins and that there are people who work there that will be catching some of this poison. But let's be frank here, if we only use half measures the rice doesn't cook all the way. Sometimes fuck ups need to be met with a vehement response and as it is a seriously negative experience stands out in our memories more than a mixed bag. I personally am not all that bent up over this and I hope that Riot learns from this and improves (not that I'm all that optimistic of this) but I can't fault anyone for going full rage ape on them either.
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TheCheekySneak

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