: I cant rememeber my password for that email :c wont let me msg
> [{quoted}](name=Queen Pebbles,realm=NA,application-id=qNbk5bu1,discussion-id=agEMZzrY,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-09-16T23:32:29.761+0000) > > I cant rememeber my password for that email :c wont let me msg what is your ingame name?
Rioter Comments
: I see what you're talking about and I also have to agree on the account of Rakan putting out more effort (into the relationship) that Xayah does. It's clearly seen in game when Rakan says, "I got you!" And Xayah replies with a, "Thanks!" But there isn't ever a time the gesture of saving one is returned to the other. I supposed that's in part of Xayah not having any inherent defensive or supportive abilities outside passives like Rakan's special case of having more E distance towards her and that they can recall together. And the opposite is true with Rakan lacking in frequent offensive skills. Although a rare occurrence, It would be nice to see if casting Summoner Heal on herself and Rakan would invoke some kind of interaction between them. Where Xayah actually takes care of her partner as a gesture to say that his actions don't go unnoticed.
> [{quoted}](name=l Ryden l,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=77swz54w,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-09-01T15:45:49.440+0000) > > I see what you're talking about and I also have to agree on the account of Rakan putting out more effort (into the relationship) that Xayah does. > > It's clearly seen in game when Rakan says, "I got you!" And Xayah replies with a, "Thanks!" > > But there isn't ever a time the gesture of saving one is returned to the other. I supposed that's in part of Xayah not having any inherent defensive or supportive abilities outside passives like Rakan's special case of having more E distance towards her and that they can recall together. And the opposite is true with Rakan lacking in frequent offensive skills. > > Although a rare occurrence, It would be nice to see if casting Summoner Heal on herself and Rakan would invoke some kind of interaction between them. Where Xayah actually takes care of her partner as a gesture to say that his actions don't go unnoticed. interactive summoner spells sounds like a great idea. As far as I recall, no champion yet reacts to a summoner being used near them. Imagine a taunt playing, everytime someone flashed and died anyway
: Yeah, he's too good for her! He should leave the woman he loves more than anything in the world so he can be unhappy and alone. {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}}
> [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=77swz54w,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-08-29T02:25:26.350+0000) > > Yeah, he's too good for her! He should leave the woman he loves more than anything in the world so he can be unhappy and alone. > > {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}} those are not my thoughts... but ok. whatever floats your boat XD
: I honestly feel the same way. I don't think Xayah isn't taking it seriously, but I think that Rakan is moreso invested in the relationship. Rakan is important to Xayah, too, but Rakan is the more loving and open of the two. Xayah is also far more close-minded, stubborn and kiiinda racist. So in canon, it seems like Rakan will be the more reasonable one, seeing that humans can be good and bad too, just like Vastaya. I'm honestly hoping tension arises in their relationship so that Xayah can grow and better herself because of Rakan, and Rakan can learn to think for himself more, even if it means disagreeing with the person closest to him. I won't say Rakan is too good for Xayah, but I will say that Rakan is a self-sacrificing, loving person, and Xayah is ambitious and spiteful (in canon AND SG). I think they could both learn from each other. And I think that Xayah has always been a bit of a bitch, ijs.
> [{quoted}](name=AbiwonKenabi,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=77swz54w,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-29T01:11:42.246+0000) > > I honestly feel the same way. > > I don't think Xayah isn't taking it seriously, but I think that Rakan is moreso invested in the relationship. Rakan is important to Xayah, too, but Rakan is the more loving and open of the two. Xayah is also far more close-minded, stubborn and kiiinda racist. So in canon, it seems like Rakan will be the more reasonable one, seeing that humans can be good and bad too, just like Vastaya. > > I'm honestly hoping tension arises in their relationship so that Xayah can grow and better herself because of Rakan, and Rakan can learn to think for himself more, even if it means disagreeing with the person closest to him. > > I won't say Rakan is too good for Xayah, but I will say that Rakan is a self-sacrificing, loving person, and Xayah is ambitious and spiteful (in canon AND SG). I think they could both learn from each other. And I think that Xayah has always been a bit of a bitch, ijs. yes, this exactly! you put it in far better words than I ever could, thank you. I am really bad at writing essay's XD
: {{sticker:sg-janna}}
> [{quoted}](name=Carnival Knights,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=TmUJVZru,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-08-29T00:01:19.966+0000) > > {{sticker:sg-janna}} you shall not escape this meme. Stargot will love on!
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Sinius (NA)
: Gold4 top/jungle
> [{quoted}](name=Sinius,realm=NA,application-id=W0aEVjIo,discussion-id=RAPyR3x7,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-08-20T20:09:05.968+0000) > > Gold4 top/jungle u have a discord?
Rioter Comments
Tele II (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=TheDangerousTaco,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=jPE8EEUY,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-08-19T23:37:47.989+0000) > > funniest comment. in flex sure. for the rest of the game modes, very unlikely I wish i had your sense of humor... just find random things, with no hint of humor in them, funny.
> [{quoted}](name=Tele II,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=jPE8EEUY,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-08-20T05:15:02.335+0000) > > I wish i had your sense of humor... just find random things, with no hint of humor in them, funny. It comes naturally when you remove the stick from your butt. :)
Phreak (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kei143,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=JRFyKia5,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-08-20T01:48:56.596+0000) > > Wait, phreak posts here? > > I thought he was an exclusive reedit user. > > Hi2u phreak!!! Love your casts and the phreak shows. Your pins are horrible, but it's so horrible that it makes me laugh. Thanks! I post on the Boards really rarely, TBH, but I look through once in a while.
> [{quoted}](name=Phreak,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=JRFyKia5,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-08-20T03:31:00.341+0000) > > Thanks! I post on the Boards really rarely, TBH, but I look through once in a while. so phreak, when are we gonna get your announcer voice pack for sale? :O
: Because it uses a different system than the rest of chat. Plus, you know, people might actually try to make strategic decisions with it. If anything, complain about post lobby.
> [{quoted}](name=Imperial Pandaa,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=jPE8EEUY,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-08-19T16:58:42.853+0000) > > Because it uses a different system than the rest of chat. Plus, you know, people might actually try to make strategic decisions with it. If anything, complain about post lobby. funniest comment. in flex sure. for the rest of the game modes, very unlikely
Rioter Comments
: I don't plan on watching the video, but in all, it just means Garen won't be locked to top lane anymore.
> [{quoted}](name=l Ryden l,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zp1oYqfH,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-08-16T17:11:33.925+0000) > > I don't plan on watching the video, but in all, it just means Garen won't be locked to top lane anymore. just a quick disclaimer, some people have been taken garen mid for a while. Similar to GP, it just has more favorable matchups. I personally think these changes will make him more of a top laner more than anything now, since he has a more reliable way of dealing with the tops
: > [{quoted}](name=Reaversal,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=cYI9imn7,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-08-16T05:13:01.854+0000) > > So do you rush Tiamat, ala Warwick, and instantly kill the raptor and krug camps by just pressing E? > > I'm assuming his E procs Tiamat since I'm pretty sure Cleave's an on-hit effect. I don't think so, but that would be ridiculous.
> [{quoted}](name=ChickenWrap,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=cYI9imn7,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-08-16T05:16:30.951+0000) > > I don't think so, but that would be ridiculous. it does. It procs all on hit effects, even tiamat
: I'm of the opinion riot should get rid of love tap and go back to the old on hit damage stacking. At best love tap is a tiny bit of up front damage, at worst it is a trap that discourages someone to focus a target. ADCs should focus targets and mechanically love tap would be better on another class, maybe an initiator. Let's be clear, Love Tap is a terrible idea for an ADC because they are supposed to position themselves such that they can only damage or be damaged by one enemy champ at a time: it goes against the grain and leads to bad habits for a champ not tanky enough to survive them and is penalized for taking damage.
> [{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p9nwUacx,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-15T21:33:55.420+0000) > > I'm of the opinion riot should get rid of love tap and go back to the old on hit damage stacking. At best love tap is a tiny bit of up front damage, at worst it is a trap that discourages someone to focus a target. ADCs should focus targets and mechanically love tap would be better on another class, maybe an initiator. > > Let's be clear, Love Tap is a terrible idea for an ADC because they are supposed to position themselves such that they can only damage or be damaged by one enemy champ at a time: it goes against the grain and leads to bad habits for a champ not tanky enough to survive them and is penalized for taking damage. somebody come and upvote this man
: Klepto Garen. Funny how they just increased his Damage and nerfing the Tank.
> [{quoted}](name=Neekophile,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zp1oYqfH,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-08-15T09:29:49.964+0000) > > Klepto Garen. > > Funny how they just increased his Damage and nerfing the Tank. it would be funny to see a 800 gold lead garen by level 3, just from spinning lol
: > [{quoted}](name=TheDangerousTaco,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zp1oYqfH,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-08-15T01:05:08.019+0000) > > I think most agree with you, but in riots defense. Just like riste said, its to open garen up more instead of having him being a niche executioner I'd probably feel alot better if I could play them myself and get an actual feel for them. Just HEARING about it from others (Even if it's someone like Riste) isn't enough. A first-hand experience is always better than a second-hand opinion.
> [{quoted}](name=EbonyBladeJ88,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zp1oYqfH,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2019-08-15T01:13:46.190+0000) > > I'd probably feel alot better if I could play them myself and get an actual feel for them. Just HEARING about it from others (Even if it's someone like Riste) isn't enough. A first-hand experience is always better than a second-hand opinion. don't worry, pbe should have it soon I believe, it should be the patch after worlds? if I am not mistaken
IMelchorI (EUW)
: if it works like i think then garens new rune will be hail of blades. +8 spins
> [{quoted}](name=IMelchorI,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zp1oYqfH,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-08-14T23:18:24.754+0000) > > if it works like i think then garens new rune will be hail of blades. > > +8 spins that is a very intersting idea. So many new ways to play this champ, im excited
: I watched the video whole way through but... I'm still hesitant to think these are for the better. Now, I know, what does a lowly Silver 2 Garen player like me know in comparison to Riste, the pretty-well Exemplar of Garen? If I could test them in person, on the PBE (But I don't have a PBE account) and see them in action, perhaps my viewpoint will change. But as it currently stands, I'm not a fan.
> [{quoted}](name=EbonyBladeJ88,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zp1oYqfH,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-14T17:06:53.507+0000) > > I watched the video whole way through but... I'm still hesitant to think these are for the better. > > Now, I know, what does a lowly Silver 2 Garen player like me know in comparison to Riste, the pretty-well Exemplar of Garen? > If I could test them in person, on the PBE (But I don't have a PBE account) and see them in action, perhaps my viewpoint will change. > But as it currently stands, I'm not a fan. I think most agree with you, but in riots defense. Just like riste said, its to open garen up more instead of having him being a niche executioner
: I'm going to call it now and say there is a 0% chance the change will go through at least as-is. Also, just to point it out, Phage, Cleaver, IE and Dance already work with his E.
> [{quoted}](name=Darkdemon653,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mbGL46uh,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-08-14T15:28:36.764+0000) > > I'm going to call it now and say there is a 0% chance the change will go through at least as-is. > > Also, just to point it out, Phage, Cleaver, IE and Dance already work with his E. there is already a nerf to compensate for this . all these on hit effects do 50% less damage / effect in general
: "NEW" Garen on hit effects
The most interesting thing about this change, is the effect of Both hydras on him. I am very interested to see how this would work.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Riot Doesn't know how to fix their Game. Admit it
with the removal of twisted treeline, I would like to say. called it
: So we ever gonna get an update to twisted treeline?
IttanMomen (EUNE)
: Can we *** nerf yasuo ? because it's so fking frustrating to play vs him !!!!
I welcome any nerf at this point honestly. I dont see why the favoritism is towards him, I cant find any person im friends with, high elo or not, that enjoys facing that champion
vimaid (NA)
: So people keep mentioning the singed support for some reason whats thiis all about? I honestlt have no idea.
> [{quoted}](name=vimaid,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=xiBEEUIi,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-06-15T18:18:29.965+0000) > > So people keep mentioning the singed support for some reason whats thiis all about? I honestlt have no idea. I think a while back there was a guy who played singed support who would leave his adc to go tilt the enemy jungler by stealing there buffs, and roam to help mid when he could. he tried his best to win, but riot banned him anyway due to the excessive reports he got form his teammates. you know, typical solo que stuff
Rioter Comments
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Relax I am noob,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=P06lP7Th,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-12T00:15:01.498+0000) > > Np fam, general discussion is for everything even trash posts xD https://imgur.com/UqqUaoX not an issue, but someone should really fix this Edit: They have a spot for teamfight tactics, but not rants? geez I wonder why
: their* game.
> [{quoted}](name=Dude Poppinov,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=P06lP7Th,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-06-12T00:12:22.793+0000) > > their* game. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Relax I am noob,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=P06lP7Th,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-06-12T00:10:05.024+0000) > > And this is not the place for your post if it is a rant. Lmfao there is a whole board section for rants fyi when I was selecting the boards, the rants boards didnt pop up. Only now do I realize that you have to GO to the rants boards itself, then select create new discussion. Someone should really fix that
Rioter Comments
: The second one. Remember how long double smite meta lasted?
> [{quoted}](name=A Girl Supp Main,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Jl9rfuVQ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-06-10T23:11:38.891+0000) > > The second one. Remember how long double smite meta lasted? wasnt that like a week?
Rockman (NA)
: Wasn’t the last update 1 person doing balance changes for two patches?
> [{quoted}](name=Rockman,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Jl9rfuVQ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-06-10T23:16:45.470+0000) > > Wasn’t the last update 1 person doing balance changes for two patches? if that is true I havent seen it happen yet. maybe for aram?
Rioter Comments
Àéry (NA)
: Why dosen't Aery have lore?
Fun fact: Aery is actually sona's lost voice . . its why it doesn't talk :D
: Let's establish something here. This is a competitive, live balanced, PVP game. It has an evolving meta, and thousands of moving parts. There will NEVER be 100% true balance to everything. It's unachievable. There is never going to be a moment in this game's life where Soraka = Zed = Darius = Lulu = Xerath = Urgot = Nasus. There will be champions who excel, there will be champions who do not. That's how this kind of game environment works. The definitions of their role in the game has little to nothing to do with how these champions are doing well. Mid is just as volatile and chaotic as top lane, as it has people who play Zed, and also people who play Cassiopeia. What determines a meta is kind of hard to pin point, but it mostly revolves around what certain balance changes occurred or new things or champions that were introduced that cause a shift in how people are playing, and then whether or not the developers will support or cut short those new developments. So naturally, if people are inclined to play assassins mid at the moment, squishies who have no defenses will do poorly, whereas other assassins or assassin killers will thrive. Overall, metas are cyclical, and ever changing. So on that note, Viktor was edged out of mid because of the meta shifting, and then people innovated and discovered that he worked well in top lane, and thus a new meta was born there. Same thing happens when new things happen to other lanes - it's not dependent on definitions laid forth by the lane role, but instead how people innovate and how they play things differently and then how others develop counters to those new innovations and play styles. It's how Irelia being played mid became a thing, or how Karthus being in the jungle became viable. It was the result of people creating new play styles for champions and forming a new meta that allowed for that to work as it caused others to react which in turn rippled out from there. So supports being poke mages isn't because there's no defined support role, it's because people have found fun ways to make it work. It doesn't mean the support role is broken at all, because unless those champions are actively NOT warding and actively stealing kills from the ADC, they can still do everything a traditional support does - provide map awareness for their team and push their ADC along to become the late game nightmare they need to be.
> [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h6XdbQI9,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2019-06-03T21:08:04.319+0000) > > Let's establish something here. This is a competitive, live balanced, PVP game. It has an evolving meta, and thousands of moving parts. There will NEVER be 100% true balance to everything. It's unachievable. There is never going to be a moment in this game's life where Soraka = Zed = Darius = Lulu = Xerath = Urgot = Nasus. There will be champions who excel, there will be champions who do not. That's how this kind of game environment works. The definitions of their role in the game has little to nothing to do with how these champions are doing well. Mid is just as volatile and chaotic as top lane, as it has people who play Zed, and also people who play Cassiopeia. What determines a meta is kind of hard to pin point, but it mostly revolves around what certain balance changes occurred or new things or champions that were introduced that cause a shift in how people are playing, and then whether or not the developers will support or cut short those new developments. So naturally, if people are inclined to play assassins mid at the moment, squishies who have no defenses will do poorly, whereas other assassins or assassin killers will thrive. Overall, metas are cyclical, and ever changing. > > So on that note, Viktor was edged out of mid because of the meta shifting, and then people innovated and discovered that he worked well in top lane, and thus a new meta was born there. Same thing happens when new things happen to other lanes - it's not dependent on definitions laid forth by the lane role, but instead how people innovate and how they play things differently and then how others develop counters to those new innovations and play styles. It's how Irelia being played mid became a thing, or how Karthus being in the jungle became viable. It was the result of people creating new play styles for champions and forming a new meta that allowed for that to work as it caused others to react which in turn rippled out from there. So supports being poke mages isn't because there's no defined support role, it's because people have found fun ways to make it work. It doesn't mean the support role is broken at all, because unless those champions are actively NOT warding and actively stealing kills from the ADC, they can still do everything a traditional support does - provide map awareness for their team and push their ADC along to become the late game nightmare they need to be. see, this statement only works if riot "Doesn't" force it. But as much as I agree with your statement, you and I know both know that riot does, thus creates the current problem. If the meta was player dependent , I wouldn't make this post, but riot forces things into balance just as much as the players do. And I would argue that riots involvement in forcing certain changes creates the current situation we are in. Again, not taking away from your argument, but I feel we are getting sidetracked. Victor finding success top isn't an issue, in fact I support it. It was him being _**"balanced"**_ out of top lane, its what creates a problem. You can see a similar trend support. If champions find new lanes sure. that Isnt an issue. but when riot goes and say " Hey , we see you play a lot of midlaners in support lane, let us tune down there damage a bit, so you can be less oppressive down there " is what creates a unhealthy solution. But again, I think we are getting sidetracked from the main issue
: Honestly Zyra's old passive really was garbage. I'm not a fan of "improved death" passives on a whole. But at least champs like Sion, Karthus, and Kog'maw can really make use of theirs and get some kills or do some damage. Zyra's was pitiful and easy to avoid.
> [{quoted}](name=Mr Dalloway,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zM1VeIWz,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2019-06-04T01:23:07.722+0000) > > Honestly Zyra's old passive really was garbage. I'm not a fan of "improved death" passives on a whole. But at least champs like Sion, Karthus, and Kog'maw can really make use of theirs and get some kills or do some damage. Zyra's was pitiful and easy to avoid. Ironically it was that way cause they nerfed it for being too unavoidable. XD people forget that the intial design of it was instant, meaning you could die and automatically snipe the enemy with it for a return kill. Was a nice lil vengeance mechanic. Honestly it just goes to show you, that no matter how hard riot tries, they always seem to miss the mark somehow ( no pun intended )
: Your argument is jaded and not at all factoring in specific strengths and weaknesses. Let's start with Lux. She IS a good support pick because of her shield and her slow and her snare. However, _why on earth_ would you want to limit her by building Ardent Censer on her? Lux's strength as a support IS NOT her shielding alone, mainly because of how temperamental her shield can be in some scenarios, and how it's awful in a pinch unless her ally is point blank and not moving. None of the pure support utility items are optimal on her, and if you build them on her, you're basically building her as a poor man's Lulu or Nami. You need to build to cater to her strengths, which is why you want to build pure AP items on her. Poke is one of her major strengths, which is why it's far, far better to run pure AP items on her instead of pure utility items. Don't make the common mistake of assuming that Supports _must_ buy utility support items. That is false. Other supports like Karma, Zyra, Morgana, and Sona are testaments to how false this is. As for what can qualify as a support - so what? Lots of things qualify as top laners. It's diverse. You have ranged units like Teemo, Jayce, Quinn, and even Vayne, then you have tanks like Nautilus, Tahm Kench, Sion, Shen, and Maokai. Then there's bruisers like Darius, Yorick, and Nasus, as well as divers like Camille, Fiora, and Jax. So why on earth is it wrong that Support be diverse, when other roles like Top lane can span almost the entire spectrum of champions? As for why you'd play someone like Sona, Soraka, or Janna - you'd play them because of the utility they bring to the team. A lot of mages have some utility, but there are severe limits to it, and the majority of the time their utility is limited to CC. CC won't save your allies when shit hits the fan. Sona's healing plus her speed boost will. Janna's ultimate plus her shield will. Soraka's full team heal combined with her silence field will. There are plenty of reasons to take enchanter mages or traditional supports over poke mage supports, so don't blanketly assume that poke mages are by default superior.
> [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h6XdbQI9,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-06-03T19:30:10.216+0000) > > As for what can qualify as a support - so what? Lots of things qualify as top laners. It's diverse. You have ranged units like Teemo, Jayce, Quinn, and even Vayne, then you have tanks like Nautilus, Tahm Kench, Sion, Shen, and Maokai. Then there's bruisers like Darius, Yorick, and Nasus, as well as divers like Camille, Fiora, and Jax. So why on earth is it wrong that Support be diverse, when other roles like Top lane can span almost the entire spectrum of champions? > I am not gonna pick apart your entire argument, but I do want to focus on one part right here. Top lane being diverse, is exactly why its a shit role to be honest. There is a number of issues with top lane meta atm, but the major being, is that it has no defined champ pool. It is literally where off meta things go to shine. In fact, mages in top lane has been a number one complaint for toplane mains for years now. No one liked the fact that ekko / vicktor went top. No one likes facing jayce as a melee champion, or having to deal with the random tham kench being unkillable, or nasus getting free wins lategame, just cause you didn't counter pick them. That's what I'm seeing support becoming, and that's why I say its broken. Your right, its not a flawless argument, but the entire point of the post, was the explain that support doesn't have a defined role in the meta for quite some time now. It has becoming an issue that is getting worse over the years, and frankly I don't see it changing. What is wrong with support being diverse? is that diversety in a game like this isn't really diversity. Certain champions are inherently better than the others, and without a place in the game, they will simply be overpicked by other things. Yes the mains of those champions will still play them, the niche that they bring isn't bad either. But overall, there are lots of reasons why I see pyke being better than sona soraka or janna. in certain teamcomps they shine, but you can easily justifiable play around another teamcomp and still beat them. what I'm trying to say is, that while it seems balanced, I fear that these champions are just being pushed out , cause there role isn't too defined. Going back to your toplane example. Victor only went top, cause he sucked in the midlane for the longest time. People realized that he was great at bullying people so they used him there. Once they nerfed that champion, you rarely see him mid anymore. Why? cause there are so many better picks. That is what I fear support is becoming, just a second midlane where the rejects go to carry, cause they couldn't find any other role
SanKakU (NA)
: What you describe as Zyra's problem is why as much as I like her I can't bring myself to stop using a certain Resolve keystone on her. Comet, Electrocute, and others are great. But nothing beats Undying Grasp for her in my book.
> [{quoted}](name=SanKakU,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zM1VeIWz,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-06-03T17:36:07.435+0000) > > What you describe as Zyra's problem is why as much as I like her I can't bring myself to stop using a certain Resolve keystone on her. Comet, Electrocute, and others are great. But nothing beats Undying Grasp for her in my book. that is very interesting. I must try that myself
Hotarµ (NA)
: >Lately I've been seeing a lot of lux supports , but I have long since believed that lux was a excellent support cause she has a shield and can build while peeling for her teammates. But what does lux build support? {{item:3285}} {{item:3089}} {{item:3165}} like what?? SHE doesn't even go support items. Lux can perform insanely well with full AP. In fact, her burst is so high that you _could_ lump her together with Zyra, Brand, and Xerath's damage outputs. >Like, legit, please tell me. What is even the purpose of playing these champions {{champion:16}}, {{champion:40}}, {{champion:37}} , when a mage {{champion:34}} {{champion:45}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:238}} {{champion:101}} can still win the game, or even do your job better? Well for starters: [Sona in particular is one of the highest winrate support champions in the game at the moment. ](https://champion.gg/champion/Sona/Support) From Bronze to Platinum+ she goes from 51% to as high as 55%. [Janna has a very respectable winrate as well](https://champion.gg/champion/jANNA/Support?league=bronze), going from 53.70% to 52.65% (scaling downwards from Bronze-Platinum.) Soraka isn't as strong as the others, [but she's still got a 51% winrate across all ELOs.](https://champion.gg/champion/Soraka/Support?league=bronze) Obligatory mention of Nami as well, [who's also one of the strongest supports at the moment and stays at a 53% winrate across all ELOs.](https://champion.gg/champion/Nami/Support?league=bronze) Xerath sits at a [53%](https://champion.gg/champion/Xerath/Support), Brand at a [51%,](https://champion.gg/champion/Brand/Support?&league=bronze) Zyra at a [52%](https://champion.gg/champion/Zyra/Support?&league=bronze), Veigar at a [48%.](https://champion.gg/champion/Veigar/Support?&league=bronze) Zed and Anivia have a [51%](https://champion.gg/champion/Anivia/Middle?) in mid because they don't have enough recorded results in support. [](https://.) **_*~~TL;DR: The conventional support champions (Soraka, Janna, Sona, etc.) perform just as good as or better than the non-conventional ones (Brand, Xerath, Zyra, etc.) ~~*_** __________ Side note: Yes, damage supports can be very strong when played in the right way, but conventional supports like Sona still bring a bunch to the table. Damage supports can't heal or shield their ADCs, they lack _reliable_ hard CC most of the time, and they're very squishy meaning they're susceptible to focusing or ganks. To add a personal note, when I play Pyke and people start focusing my ADC, there's almost nothing I can do if we aren't all-inning them. Damage supports _do_ have weaknesses. >Outside of LCS, I feel like there is no room for non tank supports in this meta/ game anymore. unless you play {{champion:53}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:201}} or a hardcore tank. A mage is arguable a better "support" than actual support. The champions you listed are pretty common and strong tank supports. Thresh is also great (as always) along with Taric (51% WR.) Arguably the only bad tank supports at the moment are Alistar, Tahm Kench, and Galio. That's not even that bad, there are almost 6-7 viable tank supports.
> [{quoted}](name=Hotarµ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h6XdbQI9,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-06-03T17:35:29.121+0000) > Everything you said is correct. And I don't want to make it seem like I'm disagreeing with you, so let me clarify my point a bit more, so it doesn't seem like our points are clashing. I acknowledge that traditional supports bring a lot more to the table than just damage dealers. But what I want to emphasize is that from a solo que perspective, unless you or the enemy has some bomb ass synergy / teamwork, damage dealer supports, can perform just as well. To me, I find this a problem. Not because sona isn't a great pick for her shields / ult, or cause soraka can't heal a team by herself, or cause lulu cant hard cuck a zed and carry a game from behind. But mainly because it feels like support is falling into the lines of toplane. Where the balance isn't solely based on counters or whats good for a team comp. But mainly who can bully the other into submission harder, to snowball. I agree that conventional support can preform just as well. But in a solo que environment, where teamwork isn't as guarantee, would you not ration that those supports are falling by the wayside far too often? A mage can go mid and support. But a support can only go mid. So if take that logic into account, me personally. I would rationalize that practicing mages is a better use of my time and experience, since they can dual role better. Sidenote: Pyke is a nightmare for me though {{champion:555}} I hate facing that thing, as a squishy support
: > [{quoted}](name=TheDangerousTaco,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zM1VeIWz,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-06-03T16:52:23.910+0000) > > I personally have to ask, how would you justify them over other champions? Well Zyra does bring both CC and zone control elements to a team fight. However since she's someone who can go mid, you don't have to try too hard to justify her: you just have to be good enough at playing her there. Furthermore, trying to bring back mid zyra is justification in itself and if you want riot to treat her as a mid laner, her players have to be taking her mid. Think of it like this: there's no point in riot trying to make Zyra more mid-friendly if her mains are happy with her as a support and won't take her mid afterward. She's so rare as a mid right now that none of the sites I'm looking at even identify her as a part of the role. **THAT HAS TO CHANGE FIRST.** People have to know mid zyra is a thing and that's not going to happen if no one does it. Zyra's other problem is she doesn't have that many people playing her right now. At 4.2% pick rate she's definitely in the bottom half of champions played. Riot's not going to dedicate assets to a champ with a lower play-rate so she can play in a role most people don't play her. That's just not a great business decision unless her numbers are out of line for the role she does play. Her numbers are fine.
> [{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zM1VeIWz,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2019-06-03T17:17:20.682+0000) > > Think of it like this: there's no point in riot trying to make Zyra more mid-friendly if her mains are happy with her as a support and won't take her mid afterward. She's so rare as a mid right now that none of the sites I'm looking at even identify her as a part of the role. **THAT HAS TO CHANGE FIRST.** People have to know mid zyra is a thing and that's not going to happen if no one does it. > > Zyra's other problem is she doesn't have that many people playing her right now. At 4.2% pick rate she's definitely in the bottom half of champions played. Riot's not going to dedicate assets to a champ with a lower play-rate so she can play in a role most people don't play her. That's just not a great business decision that's a fair point
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=TheDangerousTaco,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zM1VeIWz,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-06-03T02:07:30.494+0000) > > but if you have any better ideas on what can be added to make zyra a better midlaner, please share below. After all this is a dicussion I think she'd have to have a mid play rate high enough for riot to notice she's a mid again. That means her mains need to take her there when they get mid and queue up for mid more than support. If's she's not being played mid, I doubt she's even on riot's radar as one.
> [{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zM1VeIWz,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-06-03T15:42:25.958+0000) > > I think she'd have to have a mid play rate high enough for riot to notice she's a mid again. That means her mains need to take her there when they get mid and queue up for mid more than support. If's she's not being played mid, I doubt she's even on riot's radar as one. that on paper is fine, but picture this. Why pick zyra over lux mid ( even though lux is going support now). Or why pick those 2 over lets say, zoe, neeko, or veigar. Again he also goes support, like whats with these mages going support, I think its support that's broken imo, lmao. But I hear what your saying, but I personally have to ask, how would you justify them over other champions?
FkValeRly (EUW)
: the problem with zyra is that if she hits her shit, she will kill you, if she doesn't she wont do shit, now why would you want to give someone solo xp and gold when the end result will be the same? brand and zyra both have too much power in their passive making em both very combo oriented or "all or nothing" type champions, gut her plants and remove the ults effect on plants and give her actual scalings and she will start going mid again.
> [{quoted}](name=FkValeRly,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zM1VeIWz,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-06-03T15:02:30.732+0000) > > the problem with zyra is that if she hits her shit, she will kill you, if she doesn't she wont do shit, now why would you want to give someone solo xp and gold when the end result will be the same? brand and zyra both have too much power in their passive making em both very combo oriented or "all or nothing" type champions, gut her plants and remove the ults effect on plants and give her actual scalings and she will start going mid again. Not taking away from what your saying, but adding too it. The problem with brand and zyra, is that yes there damage is fine. but the meta in mid always favors safety mages, over teamfight ones. People figure why bother playing a mage that can teamfight, when support can do that just as well. I also think that actual supports need to make a comeback, cause a lot of the game is all about hyper mobility and offense. We need more control supports that can buff people up, rather than just nuke someone down
nm1010 (NA)
: Making her a mid laner with a small kit change is pretty easy and doesn't involve trying to mess with base damage vs scaling on her plants (which is a balancing nightmare). New passive -> Zyra gains 10%/25%/50% additional cooldown reduction on rampant growth at levels 6/11/16. In addition to this she can also store 1 more seed at level 6/11/16. W -> Seeds can only be placed within 200 units of an enemy (including jungle camps) or Zyra herself. Only up to 2 seeds can be placed within 200 units of each other. Plants that kill a unit refund 1/2/3/4/5 mana. She has much more control over trading and her waveclear post 6, which are both important mid lane. She is also a huge threat for neutral objectives (this might need to be nerfed). She scales well and has an added layer of skill needed with positioning seeds correctly. Edit: Forgot, no more limit to the amount of seeds on the ground. The only limiting factor is the spacing and the 60 second timer.
> [{quoted}](name=nm1010,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zM1VeIWz,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-06-03T12:10:20.374+0000) > > Making her a mid laner with a small kit change is pretty easy and doesn't involve trying to mess with base damage vs scaling on her plants (which is a balancing nightmare). > > New passive -> Zyra gains 10%/25%/50% additional cooldown reduction on rampant growth at levels 6/11/16. In addition to this she can also store 1 more seed at level 6/11/16. > > W -> Seeds can only be placed within 200 units of an enemy (including jungle camps) or Zyra herself. Only up to 2 seeds can be placed within 200 units of each other. Plants that kill a unit refund 1/2/3/4/5 mana. > > She has much more control over trading and her waveclear post 6, which are both important mid lane. She is also a huge threat for neutral objectives (this might need to be nerfed). She scales well and has an added layer of skill needed with positioning seeds correctly. > > Edit: Forgot, no more limit to the amount of seeds on the ground. The only limiting factor is the spacing and the 60 second timer. I like this change a lot. I support this 90%. Cause 10% of me is always bias. lol
Show more

TheDangerousTaco

Level 203 (NA)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion