Ąhri Bot (EUW)
: When you think she's beautiful, but it's C9 Sneaky
There would be a lot less toxicity if a third of the LoL community would just come out of the closet already XD
Rioter Comments
: if you were to remove any ability from any champion what would it be?
Eh. windwall is probably one of the best abilities in the game hands down. But I think its mostly because of its duration. I would instead reduce the duration to a point where it would end after reaching its range. Fizz' troll pole is also incredibly strong... but you could always just increase the cooldown by lots. It's still kinda broken though. For me I'd remove {{champion:31}} R. Its boring and always felt like a better Garen R. {{champion:24}} R. Boring. Just an uninteresting stat steroid. {{champion:3}} R. Is not bad.. its just clunky to me. An ult that requires a nearby ally just seems like a really unreliable ult. Plus its super easy to play around. Why not just play Panth? {{champion:10}} R. Just... ugh.
: Fortnite Rant: Stop asking if we have mics before game starts
I don't play fortenite but people do like communication. Thats just natural for many players. There's also lots of people who are mic shy, which may be the case for you idk. No need to assume people are noobs just because they want communication. And even if they aren't that great at the game, shouldn't it still help?
: > [{quoted}](name=Akaash,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=XUY9wscQ,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-04-03T01:55:11.529+0000) > > neo-pet??? > > What the fuck. It's neopet. Are you like 12 or something, where you only know about neopets because older people talked about it? 30, actually
> [{quoted}](name=HateDaddy,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=XUY9wscQ,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-04-03T03:58:37.556+0000) > > 30, actually Its funny when you get people who talk smack about age and then go out wearing some "retro" shirts with the original nintendo controller on it and they're like a teenager. Its like.. you probably were not born when that came out bud. Especially the atari shirts lol. IDK I guess Its like when I used to wear The Doors shirts when I was in highschool. WTF am I talking about rn
: XD Riot does not care about low elo win rates. Sion is literally top tier in the top and support roles. If you cannot see that you needa get with the program. EVERYONE KNOWS THIS! It is like saying the earth is flat.
> [{quoted}](name=webstar1995,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J0EtBz0a,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-04-02T15:58:26.328+0000) > > XD Riot does not care about low elo win rates. Sion is literally top tier in the top and support roles. If you cannot see that you needa get with the program. EVERYONE KNOWS THIS! > It is like saying the earth is flat. Are you just saying that because you like the way it sounds? Where are you getting that information from? Kayle has the highest win % in plat and up. Thats from champion.gg. Im not just making it up.
: > [{quoted}](name=TheDevice,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HkOi7TMk,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-04-02T01:15:16.835+0000) > > Choose any diamond player... pair them with bronze players... then have that team face off against an entire team of plat players. > Technically speaking, whenever a pro player grabs a low level account and does the whole "unranked to challenger" thing, they're doing exactly that.
> [{quoted}](name=Postal Badger,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HkOi7TMk,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-04-02T14:56:33.504+0000) > > Technically speaking, whenever a pro player grabs a low level account and does the whole "unranked to challenger" thing, they're doing exactly that. Only you're completely wrong. They'd ideally only get people from the _same_ rank. They wont have a team full of bronze players vs a full team of plat players.
ISmurfy420 (EUNE)
: Maybe Sion needs a bit of a buff?
As a matter of fact KAYLE has the highest win% top. Like, really high. Then Qinn, Singed, and Wukong after. Sion isn't even in the top 3 top lane champions by winrate. Give me a break. So before we nerf Sion, nerf all those others. Especially Kayle.
: Sion is very strong right now actually. His base damage is probably the highest in the tank category. He is also a lane bully.
> [{quoted}](name=webstar1995,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J0EtBz0a,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-04-02T15:41:04.481+0000) > > Sion is very strong right now actually. His base damage is probably the highest in the tank category. He is also a lane bully. Gnar is also a lane bully. And so is Yorick. And so is Darius. Whats your point. Sion has a 51% winrate. So also nerf Singed, Udyr, and Malphite.
Ralanr (NA)
: Nnnnnope. He honestly doesn’t need a buff. He’s probably getting a nerf soon.
> [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J0EtBz0a,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-04-02T15:36:19.035+0000) > > Nnnnnope. He honestly doesn’t need a buff. He’s probably getting a nerf soon. of course hes getting nerfed. He's actually in a good spot. So why not get nerfed? He's even seen pro play recently. We all know only Fiora, Rumble, Gnar, Gragas and the same champions we see every pro game are allowed to stay relevant.
: Because Irelia looks fun to play without being horrible to play against.
> [{quoted}](name=Get Ogre Here,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JbvZ7TjB,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-04-02T14:57:03.122+0000) > > Because Irelia looks fun to play without being horrible to play against. Yes! We need more hypermobile champions like this. I agree. I kinda hope Aatrox becomes a hypermobile champion as well.
: im talking about last season for my games which you could actually see if you took longer than 5 seconds to look and you are fucking bronze 2 and blaming it on matchmaking if your skill level is atleast gold then you have to try to be bronze with the conditions you are complaining about. and if you want to bring up certain games to try to prove your point then you have to actually look at when kills happened or the replay for the darius game the eve spent alot of wasted time top because sion couldnt fight me by himself which allowed our bot to actually get uncontested kills because they knew eve wasnt anywhere close
> [{quoted}](name=UnboundHades,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HkOi7TMk,comment-id=00010001000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-02T03:35:28.804+0000) > > im talking about last season for my games which you could actually see if you took longer than 5 seconds to look and you are fucking bronze 2 and blaming it on matchmaking if your skill level is atleast gold then you have to try to be bronze with the conditions you are complaining about. and if you want to bring up certain games to try to prove your point then you have to actually look at when kills happened or the replay for the darius game the eve spent alot of wasted time top because sion couldnt fight me by himself which allowed our bot to actually get uncontested kills because they knew eve wasnt anywhere close "Whut had happened was. I fed top but we won anyways but yeah. It all makes sense when I feed just when you feed its cuz you're bad skill level yo"
Rioter Comments
: i went from bronze 5 to plat 5 with mostly solo carrying to gold so dont try to say that im veiwing it from third person and how exactly do smurfs affect the game if they cant solo carry? you should be able to just beat the rest of their team and win based on what your complaining about so theirs no reason to complain about them unless its a personal skill problem
> [{quoted}](name=UnboundHades,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HkOi7TMk,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2018-04-02T02:43:27.631+0000) > > i went from bronze 5 to plat 5 with mostly solo carrying to gold so dont try to say that im veiwing it from third person and how exactly do smurfs affect the game if they cant solo carry? you should be able to just beat the rest of their team and win based on what your complaining about so theirs no reason to complain about them unless its a personal skill problem So you're saying you can win vs a team with one, maybe two challenger players on the other team. While your team is comprised of bronze players... maybe one of your team members afks. You gonna win? Oh riiiiiight. You dont get teamed with rage quitters or get smurfs on other teams. Trust me... you've got nothing on the number of leavers, feeders, afkers ive had in my match history. You cant. Its not even close lol. I'd laugh myself silly watching you play a game and how your team actually performs. I'd be plat now too if I never got any leavers, afkers, feeders and never played vs who knows how many smurfs on the opposite side. Puh-lease. BTW. do you know what would happen if I played darius and went 2/fucking7? I'd lose. I dont get carried like that. And why do all these dudes who come on here to defend this never come on an actual account with ranked games in their match history? lol Guy: "oh oh. Yeah my real account name is Blahblahblah. Check those stats out. Im not actually on it right now though for some reason. Could be my friends account. Who knows."
: most of the time the people you are playing with are around the same skill level as you so that comparison is actually garbage if you are stuck in low elo thats your fault especially in bronze since their team is also garbage its easier to solo carry
> [{quoted}](name=UnboundHades,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HkOi7TMk,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-04-02T02:00:52.650+0000) > > most of the time the people you are playing with are around the same skill level as you so that comparison is actually garbage if you are stuck in low elo thats your fault especially in bronze since their team is also garbage its easier to solo carry Only thats bullshit. There are a plethora of smurfs in bronze and the matchmaking is just simply bad. The reality is the reality of the situation. Your 3rd person view of my experience in the actual game is irrelevant. Like I said. Try that little scenario I posted above. The outcome will be that the diamond player will lose. Im sorry. Sorry thats reality. Sorry that breaks your perception of the game being fair. Its not fair. Its actually not fair at all. Do you know, that if I don't do well in the game.... my team doesn't win. Do you know that? Think about that for a second. I know that sounds almost like a given. But really think about that. Not one game where I play like dog shit do I ever win. I've seen these climbers actually play mediocre and get carried a game or two. I do not get carried. Not ever. I will always do the carrying. My team is always heavy.
: Why League Logic fails
I guess I just broke leagues right then... sry guys.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Is LoL still a strategy game?
I prefer a fighting game as a moba. The more you try to rely on strat, the more power you give to your soloq team to fail. {{sticker:sg-ahri-3}} no thanks
: This will probably be one of those debates that Riot can’t really win. If they start making female characters that don’t fit the standard supermodel figure they’ll get backlash for “catering to the sjw’s” or more importantly won’t get that horny teenage boy demographic to buy in. As it happens though, I agree with you. A lot of their female champions have really felt same-y in general appearance. It’s not even that this appearance is bad. It is actually pretty well designed, it’s only that we keep seeing it. I think someone at Riot needs to learn that slapping some vaguely triangular shape on a girl’s forehead doesn’t suddenly make her appearance distinct. What’s a little egregious is that old Irelia was actually a bit more distinct than the current one as her armor made her appearance feel more rigid and domineering just naturally (Though I will admit her new more fluid design definitely fits her more flashy flowing gameplay). That said I do think they’re making some progress. Illaoi being noticeably distinct as is Jinx and Camille to a lesser extent. Zoe too, I guess, if you want to count her. It’s really just Irelia and Kai’sa who got a bit of a backslide. And of those two, I think the amount of effort put into the blades as a medium of art rather than her own personal physical design makes Irelia only really half an example.
> [{quoted}](name=Warlord Dienekes,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=U9r0AhHE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-03-22T23:09:04.598+0000) > > This will probably be one of those debates that Riot can’t really win. If they start making female characters that don’t fit the standard supermodel figure they’ll get backlash for “catering to the sjw’s” or more importantly won’t get that horny teenage boy demographic to buy in. Its not caterint to SJW's if its their choice. Thats a double standard brought up by the gaming community. If they _want_ to make more dynamic females, why cant they? The community is just as bad as feminists when it comes to this stuff. The community doesn't make the game, Riot makes the game. They are just bullied by horny lil socially awkward teens to make their females the proportions of their fantasy waifu. The thing is... sjw's dont play games. The majority of people who play games are the ones I just mentioned. So they _CATER_ to them. They have become the SJW's of games. They cant just let content creatores make females the way they want. Do i have to bring up Fiora? Or even the new champ? Like first week there were posts altering the way she looked, giving her a shorter neck and and a bigger ass. *clap* > As it happens though, I agree with you. A lot of their female champions have really felt same-y in general appearance. > > It’s not even that this appearance is bad. It is actually pretty well designed, it’s only that we keep seeing it. I think someone at Riot needs to learn that slapping some vaguely triangular shape on a girl’s forehead doesn’t suddenly make her appearance distinct. I _completely_ agree. Completely. I dont mind pretty v-shaped dainty nosed chicks at all. Why not? I become annoyed at the repetition. Like.. okay.. we already have plenty of these chicks... can we get somebody different? I like staples or generic archetypal characteres. Don't need a plethora of them though. > What’s a little egregious is that old Irelia was actually a bit more distinct than the current one as her armor made her appearance feel more rigid and domineering just naturally (Though I will admit her new more fluid design definitely fits her more flashy flowing gameplay). > > That said I do think they’re making some progress. Illaoi being noticeably distinct as is Jinx and Camille to a lesser extent. Zoe too, I guess, if you want to count her. It’s really just Irelia and Kai’sa who got a bit of a backslide. And of those two, I think the amount of effort put into the blades as a medium of art rather than her own personal physical design makes Irelia only really half an example. Well I hope so. I just know there will be another post arguing for some new female champs appearance to be changed to the generic specifications.. And most likely Riot will obey.
Elfezen (NA)
: That's a good thing and this is what the majority wants anyway, they aren't the same at all theyre just similar silhouette
> [{quoted}](name=Elfezen,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=U9r0AhHE,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-03-23T03:34:51.168+0000) > > That's a good thing and this is what the majority wants anyway, they aren't the same at all theyre just similar silhouette Finally some honesty. This is what the truth is. Could also include that their faces also look incredibly similar besides makeup/flare.
: Maybe this is only me, but when I was a preteen and young teenager, I definitely did not go to LoL to get any of my sexual fixes. It seems like this whole "horny teenage boy" demographic you speak of is more of a myth than an actual reality. In reality, even horny teenage boys are looking for a game they can play to have fun with or without friends. Honestly, my factor for picking games when I was younger was literally never whether the characters are sexy or not, and I assume it to be similar for most others.
> [{quoted}](name=Elias1724,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=U9r0AhHE,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-03-23T02:31:32.555+0000) > > Maybe this is only me, but when I was a preteen and young teenager, I definitely did not go to LoL to get any of my sexual fixes. It seems like this whole "horny teenage boy" demographic you speak of is more of a myth than an actual reality. > > In reality, even horny teenage boys are looking for a game they can play to have fun with or without friends. Honestly, my factor for picking games when I was younger was literally never whether the characters are sexy or not, and I assume it to be similar for most others. this is bullshit. Sorry. If it wasn't true there would be no need for most of the females to look the same. The boards throw fits over how females look in this game. They need them to be pretty and have the same features they always do. If you make an illaoi, shes going to get a weaker playerbase. Which she does. The females have to have the same general look to them. If they don't, the boards will freak out. If they didn't NEED them to be pretty, they WOULD NOT CARE. Its a fact that boards will shit themselves if their fantasy waifu doesn't have the v shape face, pretty eyes, dainty nose, and full lips. Also, you cant tell me there isn't a relation. You can't There is _actual_ LoL porn. Your argument sucks. Its not true. Its _obvious_ why they all look similar.. Im speaking reality. Im showing the proof. The facts. You're using your personal "experiences". I'm not.
: Pretty sure Sejuani is easy to pick out from the others. She's the one riding the boar/poro/thing.
> [{quoted}](name=Praetor Notorias,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=U9r0AhHE,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-03-23T02:19:20.776+0000) > > Pretty sure Sejuani is easy to pick out from the others. She's the one riding the boar/poro/thing. And if you took her boar away... Generic.
: >Name more.. go on. I'll finish if you cant.. but I'll let you continue to name more female champions and how they're obviously the majority. From 80% to a basic majority, nice shift of the goal posts. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}} And frankly, you kinda shoot your own argument in the foot later. >Not sure anyone has yet said that all of lols females are generic. I certainly haven't. I said they have the most generic females. Read. In the OP you compared the game to League of Angels: >This is like that one game, League of Angels. All pretty much factory line females with slight variation that is barely even noticeable. Making a comparison such as this kinda implies that *you think the two situations are comparable* > Darius and Garen. Sure. Mundo? What? Morde? Ok stop. You're done. I notice you didn't actually address the point I was making; that it's very easy to find a specific "generic" body type among 130+ characters. Moreover, if Morde doesn't fit the same body type as the big guys a la Darius and Garen, then {{champion:28}} {{champion:60}} {{champion:145}} {{champion:498}} {{champion:21}} are all different body types. (I mean, you COULD be okay with that assertion, I've been wrong before, but these are the characters that usually come up when people talk about how League's female cast are all the same.)
> [{quoted}](name=HalfTangible,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=U9r0AhHE,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2018-03-23T05:58:50.736+0000) > > From 80% to a basic majority, nice shift of the goal posts. > > {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}} > > And frankly, you kinda shoot your own argument in the foot later. > > In the OP you compared the game to League of Angels: > > Making a comparison such as this kinda implies that *you think the two situations are comparable* > > I notice you didn't actually address the point I was making; that it's very easy to find a specific "generic" body type among 130+ characters. > > Moreover, if Morde doesn't fit the same body type as the big guys a la Darius and Garen, then {{champion:28}} {{champion:60}} {{champion:145}} {{champion:498}} {{champion:21}} are all different body types. (I mean, you COULD be okay with that assertion, I've been wrong before, but these are the characters that usually come up when people talk about how League's female cast are all the same.) locate where i said body type. Whos shifting the goal posts. I mean I suppose we can talk about body type as well... but I never spoke about body type once. Not once.
: > [{quoted}](name=TheDevice,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=U9r0AhHE,comment-id=0007000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-23T04:20:23.067+0000) > > How am I biased in a statistic? Explain. How am I biased by presenting a majority vs a minority? ................ > Im including the pool of unique female champions in this discussion. You're just not understanding the discussion. I cant be biased in a statistic. > Even if it was 50/50.... thats not good. Thats still a lot of generic champions. You keep saying things, and what you say and claim continues to have no meaning or basis. How can you possibly claim what you say to be a statistic? What you are claiming is nowhere near a statistic at all. For it to be a statistic, you need to literally counter every single champion who you thinks look the same and every champion who doesn't, then take a ratio of it. Instead, what you did was say that the majority of female champions look alike, then claimed that to be a statistic. I guess words are statistics now. Baseless claims too. > I kinda already did with the post above. I listed like 10 female champions that look alike. I could have gone a few more. No, you listed 6 champions all under the context of a single skin. That hardly covers a majority, like you seem to say. > Ok all of irelias skins. All of kats skins. All of sej's skins. All of diana's skins. All of vayns skins. Now place different weapons in their hands and you got a different champion. You're getting better, but you still don't seem to understand that simply saying things does not make it true or valid. I can point out tons of differences between the faces of someone like Vayne and someone like Diana. I can also do the same for someone like Garen or Darius. > I know _you_ personally will. Because you just want to. Because you enjoy the non-variety and will blatantly say they look different to keep it that way. > I'm not biased. _You are biased_. Why? Because you're saying its not true when it is because you just _like_ those kinds of female faces. You are allowing your argument to be altered by what you like, not whats true. You're actually fox news right now. You're saying "look at these 15 contrived females here with v shaped faces, dainty noses and full lips. They're are all super different... because... we have other female champions that are not like them". Your argument doesn't make sense. You're damn right I will, but you're wrong about the fact being because I want to. I'm doing it because you are speaking senselessly. You are speaking as if your opinion is fact, which it is not. If you want to make a claim at least be prepared to defend and analyze possibilities, without simply restating your claim with more and more emphasis each time. It's one thing to say that Irelia looks like Diana, but it's another thing to compare much more in depth to why. The thing is, you didn't do the latter, or even attempt to do it. I, and apparently others, judging by the downvotes of your post, seem to disagree with your statement. I don't think Irelia looks like Diana, and it's sure as hell going to take more than simply repeating phrases akin to "Irelia looks like Diana...because I said so!" to sway people. Just because you say something doesn't make it true. That's the problem I have with your argument. It's not because I'm biased against you, it's not because I'm actually Fox News (hint: I'm not), and it's not because I enjoy non-variety. It's funny, because now you are making claims about me that you cannot back up. Looks like you just need some brushing up on how to properly make a claim and present an argument. I can help you with that. https://www.wikihow.com/Argue
> [{quoted}](name=Elias1724,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=U9r0AhHE,comment-id=00070000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-23T04:40:16.932+0000) > > You keep saying things, and what you say and claim continues to have no meaning or basis. > > How can you possibly claim what you say to be a statistic? What you are claiming is nowhere near a statistic at all. For it to be a statistic, you need to literally counter every single champion who you thinks look the same and every champion who doesn't, then take a ratio of it. > > Instead, what you did was say that the majority of female champions look alike, then claimed that to be a statistic. I guess words are statistics now. Baseless claims too. > > No, you listed 6 champions all under the context of a single skin. That hardly covers a majority, like you seem to say. > > You're getting better, but you still don't seem to understand that simply saying things does not make it true or valid. I can point out tons of differences between the faces of someone like Vayne and someone like Diana. I can also do the same for someone like Garen or Darius. > > You're damn right I will, but you're wrong about the fact being because I want to. I'm doing it because you are speaking senselessly. You are speaking as if your opinion is fact, which it is not. If you want to make a claim at least be prepared to defend and analyze possibilities, without simply restating your claim with more and more emphasis each time. It's one thing to say that Irelia looks like Diana, but it's another thing to compare much more in depth to why. The thing is, you didn't do the latter, or even attempt to do it. > > I, and apparently others, judging by the downvotes of your post, seem to disagree with your statement. I don't think Irelia looks like Diana, and it's sure as hell going to take more than simply repeating phrases akin to "Irelia looks like Diana...because I said so!" to sway people. > > Just because you say something doesn't make it true. That's the problem I have with your argument. It's not because I'm biased against you, it's not because I'm actually Fox News (hint: I'm not), and it's not because I enjoy non-variety. > > It's funny, because now you are making claims about me that you cannot back up. Looks like you just need some brushing up on how to properly make a claim and present an argument. I can help you with that. You dont have to. I've taken plenty of Rhetoric classes in college. You're becoming more and more tight because you're on the ropes. You want to get into _real_ detail now because of how much of your argument has fallen apart. 1. I was not baised. You seem to have left that word alone. Thats good. Sadly you didn't acknowledge you were using it wrong but whatever. I'll take the lack of revisiting that point as a concede on your part. 2. I have listed a fair amount of female champions already. All you have to do is fill in the rest... in your mind. I cant hold your hand the entire way. {{champion:103}} {{champion:22}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:51}} {{champion:60}} {{champion:28}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:145}} {{champion:7}} {{champion:55}}{{champion:113}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:134}} {{champion:133}} {{champion:37}} {{champion:15}} {{champion:113}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:143}} about 21 champions I think look the same besides some weak skin tone variation, makeup and flare. 3. I'm the only one who's brought up any specific parameters to analyze.. not you. I've already said V shaped face, dainty nose, full lips. Im not just saying things without any aid to analyze... you're just not reading correctly. _You_ are making claims that are false. You're saying im not not bringing up any details to analyze... wrong. Absolutely not true.
: You are biased because you are only focusing on the ones that seem to fit your preconceived notion that LoL female champions are the same. I do know what the word means, so nice try at a comeback there to make me seem dumb. This is where I think my point should stand out to you: "If they're not generic...why would I include them?" You kinda pinned yourself by saying that. That statement just shows your bias. Bias: prejudice in favor of or against one thing. You stated that you wouldn't include champions that don't fit your generic mold. How is that not biased? Do you not believe it important to address any sort of counterexample in an argument or claim. Do you not believe it important to be open minded and at least consider any opposing statement? Your statement right there is akin to saying "if it doesn't support my view, why would I include it." In this case, your view is that LoL has generic females. You won't get very far arguing if you cannot address or even include any sort of counter to the view that you support. You should damn well include champions that show that LoL doesn't have the most generic female champions. Not only does it give you a little bit more credibility, but it will give you the opportunity to shut that point down (whether you do it in a logical way is another argument altogether). You also, again, provided no examples as to why all the females are generic. You never stated which champions to you seem generic. You gave one example, being Irelia. How does Irelia represent the majority of female league champions? "No. The bulk of lols females are generic. Sorry." Yet another example of a bias. You refuse to accept any form of criticism. You refuse to accept any notion of the slightest possibility that you may be wrong. You are so dead set on your opinion that you cannot possibly see it any other way. That's definitely bias right there. Now I ask you this: Where is your evidence? Give me something to work with, or I and the majority of people, will continue to take your argument as nothing more than nonsense. You keep using these words that have no backing whatsoever. "no its the rate. lolwut?" Okay. Its the rate. Now show me this rate you speak of. "I mean look at the skins..." Okay. Show me that most skins are generic. You gave one example in one skin. "You can't tell me that those skins couldn't be also for 80% of the female champions in this game." Oh, yes I can, and I definitely will.
> [{quoted}](name=Elias1724,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=U9r0AhHE,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2018-03-23T04:07:23.097+0000) > > You are biased because you are only focusing on the ones that seem to fit your preconceived notion that LoL female champions are the same. I do know what the word means, so nice try at a comeback there to make me seem dumb. How am I biased in a statistic? Explain. How am I biased by presenting a majority vs a minority? ................ Im including the pool of unique female champions in this discussion. You're just not understanding the discussion. I cant be biased in a statistic. Even if it was 50/50.... thats not good. Thats still a lot of generic champions. I'm still pretty sure you don't know why you're using that word > > This is where I think my point should stand out to you: "If they're not generic...why would I include them?" > > You kinda pinned yourself by saying that. That statement just shows your bias. > > Bias: prejudice in favor of or against one thing. You stated that you wouldn't include champions that don't fit your generic mold. How is that not biased? Do you not believe it important to address any sort of counterexample in an argument or claim. Do you not believe it important to be open minded and at least consider any opposing statement? Your statement right there is akin to saying "if it doesn't support my view, why would I include it." In this case, your view is that LoL has generic females. You won't get very far arguing if you cannot address or even include any sort of counter to the view that you support. > > You should damn well include champions that show that LoL doesn't have the most generic female champions. Not only does it give you a little bit more credibility, but it will give you the opportunity to shut that point down (whether you do it in a logical way is another argument altogether). > > You also, again, provided no examples as to why all the females are generic. You never stated which champions to you seem generic. You gave one example, being Irelia. How does Irelia represent the majority of female league champions? > > "No. The bulk of lols females are generic. Sorry." > > Yet another example of a bias. You refuse to accept any form of criticism. You refuse to accept any notion of the slightest possibility that you may be wrong. You are so dead set on your opinion that you cannot possibly see it any other way. That's definitely bias right there. > > Now I ask you this: Where is your evidence? Give me something to work with, or I and the majority of people, will continue to take your argument as nothing more than nonsense. You keep using these words that have no backing whatsoever. > > "no its the rate. lolwut?" Okay. Its the rate. Now show me this rate you speak of. I kinda already did with the post above. I listed like 10 female champions that look alike. I could have gone a few more. > "I mean look at the skins..." Okay. Show me that most skins are generic. You gave one example in one skin. Ok all of irelias skins. All of kats skins. All of sej's skins. All of diana's skins. All of vayns skins. Now place different weapons in their hands and you got a different champion. > "You can't tell me that those skins couldn't be also for 80% of the female champions in this game." Oh, yes I can, and I definitely will. I know _you_ personally will. Because you just want to. Because you enjoy the non-variety and will blatantly say they look different to keep it that way. I'm not biased. _You are biased_. Why? Because you're saying its not true when it is because you just _like_ those kinds of female faces. You are allowing your argument to be altered by what you like and not basing it on whats true. You're actually fox news right now. You're saying "look at these 15 contrived females here with v shaped faces, dainty noses and full lips. They're are all super different... because... we have other female champions that are not like them". Your argument doesn't make sense.
: {{champion:34}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:222}} {{champion:421}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:163}} {{champion:1}} , to name only a few. To say that the entire League cast is the same generic woman is frankly ludicrous. "You just cherry picked, what about champs like Mf, Elise and Eve that have the same general body type?" {{champion:77}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:83}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:104}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:98}} {{champion:44}} are all overly muscled strong bois. Clearly we don't have enough scrawny bois. If you want to find "generic" designs amongst 130+ characters you're gonna find 'em.
> [{quoted}](name=HalfTangible,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=U9r0AhHE,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-03-23T02:25:43.656+0000) > > {{champion:34}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:222}} {{champion:421}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:163}} {{champion:1}} , to name only a few. Name more.. go on. I'll finish if you cant.. but I'll let you continue to name more female champions and how they're obviously the majority. > To say that the entire League cast is the same generic woman is frankly ludicrous. Not sure anyone has _yet_ said that _all_ of lols females are generic. I certainly haven't. I said they have the most generic females. Read. > "You just cherry picked, what about champs like Mf, Elise and Eve that have the same general body type?" > > {{champion:77}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:83}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:104}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:98}} {{champion:44}} are all overly muscled strong bois. Clearly we don't have enough scrawny bois. > > If you want to find "generic" designs amongst 130+ characters you're gonna find 'em. Darius and Garen. Sure. Mundo? What? Morde? Ok stop. You're done.
: LoL has the most generic females
Nobody will actually be able to give a real argument. We already know this. Just downvote and move on.
: You're right i always confuse illaoi with jinx or poppy with sivir. But sure, when you nitpick 2 agile female champs on the same skin catagory you'll see similarities. I mean lucian is just ekko with guns am i rite? Darius is garen with an Axe and talon is zed with a cape.
> [{quoted}](name=JackMcSnipeyz,realm=EUNE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=U9r0AhHE,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-03-23T03:21:00.238+0000) > > You're right i always confuse illaoi with jinx or poppy with sivir. > But sure, when you nitpick 2 agile female champs on the same skin catagory you'll see similarities. > I mean lucian is just ekko with guns am i rite? > Darius is garen with an Axe and talon is zed with a cape. {{champion:51}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:22}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:145}} {{champion:7}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:133}} {{champion:15}} {{champion:37}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:76}} {{champion:131}}{{champion:60}} Besides a slight shift in skintone, makup and some flare... they're interchangeable. V shaped faced, dainty nose, full lips. I'm not nitpicking. You are. Why would I say lucian is just an ekko? Because they're black? Are... _you_ saying you cant tell a difference? Nobody would confuse a _child_ with a grown ass man. And their faces are different. {{champion:236}} {{champion:245}} They actually have different faces. Ekko's is softer while Lucians is edgier and longer. Eyes completely diffrent. Noses are different. Chins. You fail. You just compared talon with zed.... What are you even trying right now? Just stop. Stop trying.
: Yet another perfect example of a clear bias going around here. Like someone else stated previously, there are enough distinctions and uniqueness between female champions in the cast of LoL. **_You just choose to focus on the ones who happen to look similar, and think it's okay to apply it to all female champions._** There's not really much more to be discussed here. It seems all these threads that pop up about female champion diversity are so obviously biased and already stuck into a certain mindset that no matter what Riot produces, someone will always claim it looks similar to another female champion. Nobody can really help you, and Riot sure as hell cannot help the situation, if you only focus on the few champions that prove your point, while ignoring ones that don't.
> [{quoted}](name=Elias1724,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=U9r0AhHE,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-03-23T02:36:47.585+0000) > > Yet another perfect example of a clear bias going around here. Like someone else stated previously, there are enough distinctions and uniqueness between female champions in the cast of LoL. > > **_You just choose to focus on the ones who happen to look similar, and think it's okay to apply it to all female champions._** > > There's not really much more to be discussed here. It seems all these threads that pop up about female champion diversity are so obviously biased and already stuck into a certain mindset that no matter what Riot produces, someone will always claim it looks similar to another female champion. Nobody can really help you, and Riot sure as hell cannot help the situation, if you only focus on the few champions that prove your point, while ignoring ones that don't. no its the rate. lolwut? the amount of generic champions outweigh the non generic. Your point is like saying "look there is so much variation between these 100 red balls because 5 of them are not red" If they're not generic.. why would i include them? You're not making much sense. No. The bulk of lols females are generic. Sorry. BTW... What am I **_biased _**about? Explain that word to me pls. https://i2.wp.com/nopants.me/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/inigo.jpg?fit=625%2C351&ssl=1
Dehitay (NA)
: Wow, if this upsets you, try to never go outside. Women in the real world have even less variation than in this game.
> [{quoted}](name=Dehitay,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=U9r0AhHE,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-03-22T23:19:38.829+0000) > > Wow, if this upsets you, try to never go outside. Women in the real world have even less variation than in this game. you have something backwards happening thought-wise
Rioter Comments
Kivolan (NA)
: At This Point, Only 20 Champions Have No Mobility.
I think mobility has always been helpful to the game. It adds the "action-style" combat that drew my attention in the first place. I also have to aggree that ms isn't exactly the kind of mobility people talk about when discussing it. Dashes and blinks are the main concern for most people but thats because there are a lot of people who don't like fast moving things. Its true. Its not like an insult or anything, some people are juts not good at reflex timing or fast-paced action stuffs. I know this because I have a friend who is like that. He just cant deal. But the enjoyment factor is really in the "plays". People trash talk LC$BIGPLAY$ all the time but dont like to admit that its one of the things that has made lol so damn popular. Not saying for everyone, but I would say definitely the majority. They like the feeling of outplaying opponents. Getting those timed jukes or predictions. It makes the game fun for a lot of people, myself included.
: 1: There were no threads about Kayn being generic... 2: We've already had threads about Kai'Sa being generic...
> [{quoted}](name=ZenithEevee,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nIrAprXE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-03-11T23:28:40.416+0000) > > 1: There were no threads about Kayn being generic... > > 2: We've already had threads about Kai'Sa being generic... https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/G0gNyoAo-kayn-is-the-ultimate-edgelord Your bullet point "facts" ... no gud
: 1: There were no threads about Kayn being generic... 2: We've already had threads about Kai'Sa being generic...
> [{quoted}](name=ZenithEevee,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nIrAprXE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-03-11T23:28:40.416+0000) > > 1: There were no threads about Kayn being generic... > > 2: We've already had threads about Kai'Sa being generic... https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/t9qZkJUb-kayn-has-darius-face-and-tryndameres-body I didn't even have to look far. Out of the first 5 search results lol. I question your "facts".
Kythers (NA)
: I don't remember this at all, don't strawman the entire board
> [{quoted}](name=Kythers,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nIrAprXE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-03-11T23:21:37.189+0000) > > I don't remember this at all, don't strawman the entire board "I personally don't remember so its not true" - True Logic
: The splash looks like {{champion:103}} and {{champion:67}} had a baby
> [{quoted}](name=Hexs Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=1KbyO0RN,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-02-23T04:58:22.449+0000) > > The splash looks like {{champion:103}} and {{champion:67}} had a baby looks like {{champion:103}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:51}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:7}} {{champion:15}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:254}} had a baby or a sister. Or a clone.
Rioter Comments
Luralin (NA)
: oh ffs
> [{quoted}](name=Luralin,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=KPc7ljuu,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2018-03-11T22:16:55.471+0000) > > oh ffs The real question is should Twitch allow them _knowing_ their channel is less about gaming and more about t&a. They don't have to do anything really since those channels bring in a bunch of viewers obviously but if they wanted to promote themselves as having a backbone and sticking to their actual purpose then yeah. At this point, soft porn has become aligned with the gaming industry. The only way that can change is if the community itself actually changed. There will be indie games appealing more to the less generic gamer but they'll simply attract less players. It is what it is.
Luralin (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=TheDevice,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=KPc7ljuu,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2018-03-11T21:47:10.665+0000) > > I think shes great at what she does. The fact is that most people who view her don't even care. They just want to see jiggle. Thats actually it and why shes so popular. If a fat ugly chick did body paint and was even better than her, she'd get a fraction of the popularity because of the shallowness. > > The issue I've always found in games and content featuring continuous sexual inuendo is that its actaully an insult to gamers. I've kinda realised that for years and at first was kinda upset until I understood that gamers will defend this stuff with their last breath. They dont even care how insulting it is to them they just put up a wall of denial. The truth is obvious. > > The insulting factor is that game developers and many content creators (not even saying her specifically), fully understand that these nerdy gamers are not getting that type of woman and probably never will. So they just stick that carrot on a string and ride the shallow minded nerdy donkey to the bank. > > So, I just find Twitch amusing now and these pseudo camgirl "gamers" who are just exploiting the hell out of these guys. > > Really its tough to decide if i feel sorry for my so-called peers or just get a kick out of knowing they're getting insulted at a deep level. What do you think of the women who have no issues exploiting them tho
> [{quoted}](name=Luralin,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=KPc7ljuu,comment-id=00100000,timestamp=2018-03-11T21:53:42.170+0000) > > What do you think of the women who have no issues exploiting them tho I've no issues with them since they're responding to a very real market. Not all of them are, granted. Some may truly just want to play games. Kay may just like body painting and be completely oblivious to the fact that jiggles attract money (doubtful). The majority im sure are fully aware and just wanna make dat skrilla. Can't really place much blame on them for being smart enough to cash in. It's hardly their responsibility to promote anything less. Its like most political stuff. Is it the fault of games or food manufacturers that many people are overweight? No. People need to take responsibility of their own wellbeing. Although, take Riot games for instance. Many of their playerbase came for the game and dynamic characters. When Riot starts leaning towards becoming some generic jiggle fest, outweighing more visually dynamic female characters, there can be legitimate backlash. However, if Riot stared out as just some generic booby game then why complain? This also doesn't mean that Riot is at any actual fault or that they should change in any way (especially if its working). It just means that some people will either be okay with their new direction and stay, or not be and leave or play less.
Drammma (NA)
: Titty Streaming.
I think shes great at what she does. The fact is that most people who view her don't even care. They just want to see jiggle. Thats actually it and why shes so popular. If a fat ugly chick did body paint and was even better than her, she'd get a fraction of the popularity because of the shallowness. The issue I've always found in games and content featuring continuous sexual inuendo is that its actaully an insult to gamers. I've kinda realised that for years and at first was kinda upset until I understood that gamers will defend this stuff with their last breath. They dont even care how insulting it is to them they just put up a wall of denial. The truth is obvious. The insulting factor is that game developers and many content creators (not even saying her specifically), fully understand that these nerdy gamers are not getting that type of woman and probably never will. So they just stick that carrot on a string and ride the shallow minded nerdy donkey to the bank. So, I just find Twitch amusing now and these pseudo camgirl "gamers" who are just exploiting the hell out of these guys. Really its tough to decide if i feel sorry for my so-called peers or just get a kick out of knowing they're getting insulted at a deep level.
: > Nocturne needed a buff Am I the only one who thinks he was fine?
> [{quoted}](name=superfire444,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=e801Ftoa,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-03-10T14:10:38.017+0000) > > Am I the only one who thinks he was fine? Im sure you consider any champ you never see in any of your games "fine".
Rioter Comments
Elfezen (NA)
: Have you never seen many works by the same artists before? That's the art style of League of Legends artists so they will look similar. Just like in One Piece 90% of the females look like Nami and 90% of the males like Zoro or in Tokyo Ghoul manga everyone has same face design, its a normal thing to happen. Check all the characters of Dragon Quest or Chrono Trigger, they look exactly the same with Dragon Ball because they had the same artists (Akira Toriyama etc), also many Dynasty Warriors/Yakuza characters look like Tekken characters, the examples are unending. There isn't any issue with that at all.
> [{quoted}](name=Elfezen,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=beUqzWyE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-03-03T08:20:28.332+0000) > > Have you never seen many works by the same artists before? That's the art style of League of Legends artists so they will look similar. Just like in One Piece 90% of the females look like Nami and 90% of the males like Zoro or in Tokyo Ghoul manga everyone has same face design, its a normal thing to happen. Check all the characters of Dragon Quest or Chrono Trigger, they look exactly the same with Dragon Ball because they had the same artists (Akira Toriyama etc), also many Dynasty Warriors/Yakuza characters look like Tekken characters, the examples are unending. There isn't any issue with that at all. So, again, im right. Most the females look the same and the males do not. How is that arguing with me? You're agreeing with me and people agree with you. The _fact_ is most of them look the same. The lol community is just as bad as the feminist community XD You're contradicting yourself, agreeing with me, and.. arguing with me? I don't understand. There are only _two_ possible reasons 1. Riot _tells_ their artists to draw the females a certain way -or- 2. Riot _chooses_ people who draw females exactly to their specifications. That's the _"style"_ portion you're describing And, _again_ , for like the 4th time in this thread, the artists on the splashes _do_ have their own style. They will draw a female champ a certain way and end up with a torrent of _BACKLASH_ because the community cant stand their females looking too unique or what they might deem "ugly". They dont fit the parameters of a dainty nose, v-shaped head, etc. The 15-year old kpopstar. This new champ is just another clone. Zero personality. Sona clone ver #014. Boring. Thank you for agreeing with me. Yet we have had _so_ many theads complaining about riot making male champs "prettier". Where are those same threads for females?
SEKAI (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=TheDevice,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=beUqzWyE,comment-id=00000001000000000002000000000001,timestamp=2018-03-02T03:39:11.559+0000) > > You're conflating the argument. Especially while, again, no comics, and they don't seem to be stopping any depth of details in mens splash arts. > > Non equivalent to what im saying. > > why not throw this image in the mix to shake up the argument? > > https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/bettyboop/images/d/d9/Betty_boop-1-.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/270?cb=20110513143652 > > I mean that can actually be used to describe a difference in facial shape while also just completely being off-point in saying it is a different art style. Or that why cant we just use that style since its the most simplistic? > > If my art style was to make all the guys look nearly exactly the same (maybe like Varus) with only the smallest of changes, we'd just throw that up to art style huh? And not to mention the argument is moot a second time because different artists are doing the splashes. You do realise most males in league who look human enough already have the same design principles, just belonging to either 1 of the 2 templates? The only issues you're having is because arguably the most prominent and distinguishing factors that artists can play with such as facial hair, is not accessible to females by default because women do not have facial hair. Which is why I said this issue is mostly a fundamental problem. And if there is any problem in this, it's that Riot is not willing to portray female characters as monsters or faceless, which makes female cast more "boring" than the male's, and this is the REAL root of the problem. I've said this again and again, you're not even paying the slightest attention.
> [{quoted}](name=SEKAI,realm=OCE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=beUqzWyE,comment-id=000000010000000000020000000000010000,timestamp=2018-03-02T04:00:24.875+0000) > > You do realise most males in league who look human enough already have the same design principles, just belonging to either 1 of the 2 templates? > > The only issues you're having is because arguably the most prominent and distinguishing factors that artists can play with such as facial hair, is not accessible to females by default because women do not have facial hair. Which is why I said this issue is mostly a fundamental problem. > > And if there is any problem in this, it's that Riot is not willing to portray female characters as monsters or faceless, which makes female cast more "boring" than the male's, and this is the REAL root of the problem. > > I've said this again and again, you're not even paying the slightest attention. No, I've read every singe time you'e written it and I've said every time its wrong. Its wrong because there are no templates. There are none. That is imaginary. You don't need templates to make splash art. You don't. Never have. Stop saying templates please. Its wrong because females have more to their features than masks or facial hair. You're wrong man. You're actually wrong. EDIT: How many times do _I_ have to keep saying this?
SEKAI (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=TheDevice,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=beUqzWyE,comment-id=00000001000000000002000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-02T03:27:28.438+0000) > > There but this isn't a comic. The models are not done from templates, they couldn't be. So then why the splash art? Those are not comics. > > Sej vi and lux and actually nearly all of them have subtle differences. The key word though; _subtle_. The faces become simplified for marketing reasons. This is easily proven by me previous statement that they _had_ been done differently and were changed. I'm not talking templates btw and I can't understand why you keep bringing them up. A v-shape face, and and oval are both technically templates. A wide oval, an elongated triangle etc would not harm a comic's workload. Its not as valid a reason as they'd have you believe. The V shape is simply the most marketable female face. It just is. Its even talked about quite widely in china/japan. And, again, splashes are not comics. > > And again, no. No no to all the female stuff you keep describing. I've spent weeks drawing womens (and mens) faces. They are not as subtle as you keep describing them as. Its just _not true_. You just have to go walk around. Im not going to suspend reality for the sake of your technical description between males and females. That's an unnatural, overly simplistic description to justify the state of it. > > The subtlety described in these faces is between kin. If all these characters were _sisters_ then it would make sense. You might have heard that LoL started out as a mod called DotA, which was based in Warcraft3, the game that has cartoonish graphics both in-game and in the actual universe of its lore/setting. Yes, LoL is using comics graphics, in case it hasn't occurred to you just yet. Over the years the art just get more detailed, but doesn't mean it's less comic-y. .... It's also really weird why it's so hard for you to grasp the idea of having a template. A template is your elementary understanding of something. What does a male human look like IN GENERAL, what does a female human look like IN GENERAL? Everybody and their mother has that sort of thing, Riot just as a company has decided theirs which they base their characters out of; males have 2 templates for the slim and buff, females have 1 which is default at slim. Hell, if you really want to, ask Riot to include buff females as the secondary template or something. Still it doesn't mean there is anything wrong with templates. I mean, I really don't get it, why is it that you believe every single female characters need to be designed from the ground up and from scratch and forbidden from using any use of generalisation? Ain't nobody has got time for that, man. Again, the more pressing matter is not how much cheek bone height difference these 2 human female characters need to have differently. The real issue is how Riot has not been very willing to make female human characters faceless or monstrous. You're missing the real problem to chew on this what I perceive to be either a secondary problem or symptoms of the real issue.
> [{quoted}](name=SEKAI,realm=OCE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=beUqzWyE,comment-id=000000010000000000020000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-02T03:41:42.014+0000) > > You might have heard that LoL started out as a mod called DotA, which was based in Warcraft3, the game that has cartoonish graphics both in-game and in the actual universe of its lore/setting. > > Yes, LoL is using comics graphics, in case it hasn't occurred to you just yet. Over the years the art just get more detailed, but doesn't mean it's less comic-y. > > .... > > It's also really weird why it's so hard for you to grasp the idea of having a template. > > A template is your elementary understanding of something. What does a male human look like IN GENERAL, what does a female human look like IN GENERAL? Everybody and their mother has that sort of thing, Riot just as a company has decided theirs which they base their characters out of; males have 2 templates for the slim and buff, females have 1 which is default at slim. > > Hell, if you really want to, ask Riot to include buff females as the secondary template or something. Still it doesn't mean there is anything wrong with templates. > > I mean, I really don't get it, why is it that you believe every single female characters need to be designed from the ground up and from scratch and forbidden from using any use of generalisation? Ain't nobody has got time for that, man. > > Again, the more pressing matter is not how much cheek bone height difference these 2 human female characters need to have differently. The real issue is how Riot has not been very willing to make female human characters faceless or monstrous. > > You're missing the real problem to chew on this what I perceive to be either a secondary problem or symptoms of the real issue. There is no such thing as comics graphics when you're talking interprating in-game models or visa versa. It doesn't require you to have comic templates. What you're saying isn't making any actual sense now. "wow made comics graphics", I don't know what you mean here. Please explain. You keep bringing up secondary templates as if that is the issue. Its not. While varus, rakaan, darius, etc may all be running off the similar "template" that doesn't stop them from being distinguishable without facial hair or whatever. You keep bringing up muscles. Welp, females _can_ form larger muscles. Thats a real life fact. They can form many different nose variations (Which are described in the _men's "TEMPLATES"_). You're conflating the argument constantly. You're also not being consistent with your argument. You're saying there inst much variation between females features and its easier to simplify them further, and, while keeping with a single template, you get a similar look. Thats what you're saying. Yet you completely ignore the facts that the lesser muscular "template" used by men _still convey detail and depth_. You're not being consistent. Your saying its easier to draw simplified, but Riot Artists _do not simplify male features_. They use detail. They only overly-simplify female features.
SEKAI (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=TheDevice,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=beUqzWyE,comment-id=000000010000000000020000,timestamp=2018-03-02T02:57:05.323+0000) > > Im going to butt-in here and say.. templates are should not be involved in this discussion. Template are not conveying eye size, nose size, jaw size to the extent you're making it seem it does. Templates are like what comic books is how comic book would generally describe how they are making their heroes. > > None of that _has_ to apply. If some creator told anyone that its a PR fail safe. The female face has drastically become simplified in comics and games due to the target audience. Thats it. Simple. There's no need to go to that level of apologist rhetoric. I've witnessed on these boards females faces get changed in their splash art. I haven't _once_ seen a male have their face changed due to community backlash/feedback. Never. Only on female splashes. Faces get simplied in comics because it's far too much effort to try and draw detailed faces without having it look creepy or off; welcome to the uncanny valley discussion. Also, ofc, for time-saving reasons, because comics have a lot of pages to go through so often "good enough" is good enough. It's not that often for artists to go through the hoops and draw like this https://i.stack.imgur.com/BDeSim.jpg when this https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kI6_EPx8Qo0/VyIm-NHDzDI/AAAAAAAAA7I/XqNO6RhkabUeBIXge6YezwW0YYQgw_WDACKgB/s1600/otoyomegatari_2.jpg or less is clearly good enough. ...... You are also confusing artstyles with design principles. Different people draw the same character differently if they are not actively imitating the source material's art, this is no news; ofc the same character drawn by different people are going to look different. But that doesn't mean artists do not use templates, the default model in which they add onto, because they do; everybody has their "typical male" and "typical female" character templates, and ofc, Riot as a company has formed their own design principle around a unified set of character template to start a character from. ...... The PR in all of this, and the center of this problem, is once again NOT whether different female characters have slightly different chin width and whatnot that most people are never going to notice. I mean, this thread exists today when female characters already have slightly different chin width (Sejuani, Vi, and Lux have different chins) or stuff like that, which you just didn't really notice because females do not go through as much facial development as males do so there is not that many reasons to jack-up extreme facial differences between female characters. Whether you like it or not, most girls within the same ethnic tend to have less facial distinction than males, especially when the most noticeable and iconic factors on faces outside of things like tattoo, like the more prominent growths on facial hair, eyebrows, noses, and face sizes, are dictated by male hormones. And once again, there isn't even that much among male human characters' facial differences outside of the factors with more visually impression like facial hair, too, because they are almost all started from the same 2 templates. The real issues however, are the fact there is barely any intimating monster girl champs (barely any semi-monster female champs too, and none of which are designed to be visibly intimating at first glance) and almost no faceless female champs.
> It's not that often for artists to go through the hoops and draw like this > https://i.stack.imgur.com/BDeSim.jpg > > when this > https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kI6_EPx8Qo0/VyIm-NHDzDI/AAAAAAAAA7I/XqNO6RhkabUeBIXge6YezwW0YYQgw_WDACKgB/s1600/otoyomegatari_2.jpg or less > > is clearly good enough. > > ...... You're conflating the argument. Especially while, again, no comics, and they don't seem to be stopping any depth of details in mens splash arts. Non equivalent to what im saying. why not throw this image in the mix to shake up the argument? https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/bettyboop/images/d/d9/Betty_boop-1-.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/270?cb=20110513143652 I mean that can actually be used to describe a difference in facial shape while also just completely being off-point in saying it is a different art style. Or that why cant we just use that style since its the most simplistic? If my art style was to make all the guys look nearly exactly the same (maybe like Varus) with only the smallest of changes, we'd just throw that up to art style huh? And not to mention the argument is moot a second time because different artists are doing the splashes.
SEKAI (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=TheDevice,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=beUqzWyE,comment-id=000000010000000000020000,timestamp=2018-03-02T02:57:05.323+0000) > > Im going to butt-in here and say.. templates are should not be involved in this discussion. Template are not conveying eye size, nose size, jaw size to the extent you're making it seem it does. Templates are like what comic books is how comic book would generally describe how they are making their heroes. > > None of that _has_ to apply. If some creator told anyone that its a PR fail safe. The female face has drastically become simplified in comics and games due to the target audience. Thats it. Simple. There's no need to go to that level of apologist rhetoric. I've witnessed on these boards females faces get changed in their splash art. I haven't _once_ seen a male have their face changed due to community backlash/feedback. Never. Only on female splashes. Faces get simplied in comics because it's far too much effort to try and draw detailed faces without having it look creepy or off; welcome to the uncanny valley discussion. Also, ofc, for time-saving reasons, because comics have a lot of pages to go through so often "good enough" is good enough. It's not that often for artists to go through the hoops and draw like this https://i.stack.imgur.com/BDeSim.jpg when this https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kI6_EPx8Qo0/VyIm-NHDzDI/AAAAAAAAA7I/XqNO6RhkabUeBIXge6YezwW0YYQgw_WDACKgB/s1600/otoyomegatari_2.jpg or less is clearly good enough. ...... You are also confusing artstyles with design principles. Different people draw the same character differently if they are not actively imitating the source material's art, this is no news; ofc the same character drawn by different people are going to look different. But that doesn't mean artists do not use templates, the default model in which they add onto, because they do; everybody has their "typical male" and "typical female" character templates, and ofc, Riot as a company has formed their own design principle around a unified set of character template to start a character from. ...... The PR in all of this, and the center of this problem, is once again NOT whether different female characters have slightly different chin width and whatnot that most people are never going to notice. I mean, this thread exists today when female characters already have slightly different chin width (Sejuani, Vi, and Lux have different chins) or stuff like that, which you just didn't really notice because females do not go through as much facial development as males do so there is not that many reasons to jack-up extreme facial differences between female characters. Whether you like it or not, most girls within the same ethnic tend to have less facial distinction than males, especially when the most noticeable and iconic factors on faces outside of things like tattoo, like the more prominent growths on facial hair, eyebrows, noses, and face sizes, are dictated by male hormones. And once again, there isn't even that much among male human characters' facial differences outside of the factors with more visually impression like facial hair, too, because they are almost all started from the same 2 templates. The real issues however, are the fact there is barely any intimating monster girl champs (barely any semi-monster female champs too, and none of which are designed to be visibly intimating at first glance) and almost no faceless female champs.
> [{quoted}](name=SEKAI,realm=OCE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=beUqzWyE,comment-id=0000000100000000000200000000,timestamp=2018-03-02T03:14:30.040+0000) > > Faces get simplied in comics because it's far too much effort to try and draw detailed faces without having it look creepy or off; welcome to the uncanny valley discussion. Also, ofc, for time-saving reasons, because comics have a lot of pages to go through so often "good enough" is good enough. > > You are also confusing artstyles with design principles. Different people draw the same character differently if they are not actively imitating the source material's art, this is no news; ofc the same character drawn by different people are going to look different. But that doesn't mean artists do not use templates, the default model in which they add onto, because they do; everybody has their "typical male" and "typical female" character templates, and ofc, Riot as a company has formed their own design principle around a unified set of character template to start a character from. > > The PR in all of this, and the center of this problem, is once again NOT whether different female characters have slightly different chin width and whatnot that most people are never going to notice. I mean, this thread exists today when female characters already have slightly different chin width (Sejuani, Vi, and Lux have different chins) or stuff like that, which you just didn't really notice because females do not go through as much facial development as males do so there is not that many reasons to jack-up extreme facial differences between female characters. Whether you like it or not, most girls within the same ethnic tend to have less facial distinction than males, especially when the most noticeable and iconic factors on faces outside of things like tattoo, like the facial hair, eyebrows, noses, and face sizes, are dictated by male hormones. The real issues however, are the fact there is barely any intimating monster girl champs (barely any semi-monster female champs too, and none of which are designed to be visibly intimating at first glance) and almost no faceless female champs. There but this isn't a comic. The models are not done from templates, they couldn't be. So then why the splash art? Those are not comics. Sej vi and lux and actually nearly all of them have subtle differences. The key word though; _subtle_. The faces become simplified for marketing reasons. This is easily proven by me previous statement that they _had_ been done differently and were changed. I'm not talking templates btw and I can't understand why you keep bringing them up. A v-shape face, and and oval are both technically templates. A wide oval, an elongated triangle etc would not harm a comic's workload. Its not as valid a reason as they'd have you believe. The V shape is simply the most marketable female face. It just is. Its even talked about quite openly in china/japan. And, again, splashes are not comics. And again, no. No no to all the female stuff you keep describing. I've spent weeks drawing womens (and mens) faces. They are not as subtle as you keep describing them as. Its just _not true_. You just have to go walk around. Im not going to suspend reality for the sake of your technical description between males and females. That's an unnatural, overly simplistic description to justify the state of it. The subtlety described in these faces is between kin. If all these characters were _sisters_ then it would make sense.
SEKAI (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=TheDangerousTaco,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=beUqzWyE,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2018-03-02T02:18:58.966+0000) > > You can try to nitpick all you want too, but your point is disproven. You can make unique faces without facial hair. XD what more do you want > > Edit: Your basically passing off opinions as facts. When as an artist, you have a lot of potential for different faces. > Males : jaw shape, nose shape, lip shape, eye height, eye width, eyebrow thickness > > Females: Eyelashes, lipstick, jaw curvauture, philtrum depth, nose rings, facial marks, beauty marks, makeup, tattoos even ( this applies to both ) the list goes on. With both faces, you can make things look unique Did you even notice just how 'secondary' most of the female facial difference factor you've listed are? Why, you might ask, that you're only using such minor differential factors when you can easily list off a bunch of big factors for male characters? The reason is simple, because it is a fact that males "grow" their face more than female, because outside of the general notions of ethnicity, many of the facial feature development is intrinsically tied to testosterone which women have a lack of unless they actively dope themselves with it for one reason or the other; from the thickness of eyebrows, facial hair like mustache and beard, to the prounce-ness of your chin and jawbone, to the size of your ears and nose, etc. All people have different face, sure, but it is also true that males typically have larger facial distinction due to going through more facial development. ....... But all of that doesn't matter shit. Because all of the male human characters' faces are made with variations of 2 templates, and all of the female human characters's faces are made with variation of 1 template, with some exceptions, anyway. And it also doesn't help female facial design diversity when girls do not grow facial hair, so 1 less primary parameter to play around. And as I was saying again and again, the seemingly lack of female character variation is MOSTLY a fundamental problem and the real issue is contributed by the fact there is little to no crossover between female human character design with faceless character design and monster character design, and those should be the major and immediate concern, than trying to make different female faces different by slighting adding chin width nobody is ever going to really notice/care or putting on slightly different rings and little tattoo on slightly different parts of the face. I mean, for all its worth, it's not like you guys even noticed that Vi has both facial piercings and tattoos on her face, so why should it be considered a part of the major differentiating factors between female characters?
> [{quoted}](name=SEKAI,realm=OCE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=beUqzWyE,comment-id=00000001000000000002,timestamp=2018-03-02T02:43:22.134+0000) > > Did you even notice just how 'secondary' most of the female facial difference factor you've listed are? > > Why, you might ask, that you're only using such minor differential factors when you can easily list off a bunch of big factors for male characters? The reason is simple, because it is a fact that males "grow" their face more than female, because outside of the general notions of ethnicity, many of the facial feature development is intrinsically tied to testosterone which women have a lack of unless they actively dope themselves with it for one reason or the other; from the thickness of eyebrows, facial hair like mustache and beard, to the prounce-ness of your chin and jawbone, to the size of your ears and nose, etc. All people have different face, but it is also true that males typically have larger facial variance. > > ....... > > But all of that doesn't matter shit. Because all of the male human characters' faces are made with variations of 2 templates, and all of the female human characters's faces are made with variation of 1 template, with some exceptions, anyway. And it also doesn't help female facial design diversity when girls do not grow facial hair, so 1 less primary parameter to play around. > > And as I was saying again and again, the seemingly lack of female character variation is MOSTLY a fundamental problem and the real issue is contributed by the fact there is little to no crossover between female human character design with faceless character design and monster character design, and should be the major concern. Im going to butt-in here and say.. templates are should not be involved in this discussion. Template are not conveying eye size, nose size, jaw size to the extent you're making it seem it does. Templates are like what comic books is how comic book would generally describe how they are making their heroes. None of that _has_ to apply. If some creator told anyone that its a PR fail safe. The female face has drastically become simplified in comics and games due to the target audience. Thats it. Simple. There's no need to go to that level of apologist rhetoric. I've witnessed on these boards females faces get changed in their splash art. I haven't _once_ seen a male have their face changed due to community backlash/feedback. Never. Only on female splashes.
SEKAI (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=TheDevice,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=beUqzWyE,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-02T02:14:45.523+0000) > > Wow you really sound like you're trying to know what you're talking about. Saying "variance" doesn't make what you're saying sound any less bs. Its pretty damn obvious to most people and even more so to anyone who's had to do portrait art or has studied figures. The male faces in this game have a far broader range of "variance" than females. Nose. Eyes. Chin. Jaw. Forehead. Females _also_ have these features with a broad range of variance.. yet are not conveyed hardly at all in lol. > > The fact you're trying to defend it by saying "yeah females all generally look like that... but males have muscles sometimes... and beards" is a little scary to me. Females can also have wide noses, big chins, wide jaws, round cheeks and so on. To actually sit there and say that females generally all look like that... I would suggest going outside more. Yes, outside of children characters which has its own set of standards for children, most male champs follow one of the 2 design tropes in this game just like female champs having like 1 major trope: Either they're slim with a sharper face, or they are buff with visibly more pronounced chin and jaw line. Again, as I had edited into the post within the first minute of posting it but you somehow missed it, buff male archetype only has a larger variance because it has a crossover with monster male champ; that is where champs like Sion and Mundo sit in this. Which is exactly why, and with other factors considered, I said the problem is the lack of tendency to push female champs to be monsters or faceless that's the root of the problem. if Riot is more willing to have more faceless and monster female characters, there will be more female versions of Shen, Zed, and Pantheon, more Rek'Sai, and more female Nasus or Azir, and more female Malzahar, Kassadin, or Jax. The lack of them is where the problem lies, not characters with similar builds are made using a base template to design them.
> [{quoted}](name=SEKAI,realm=OCE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=beUqzWyE,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-02T02:29:05.395+0000) > > Yes, outside of children characters which has its own set of standards for children, most male champs follow one of the 2 design tropes in this game just like female champs having like 1 major trope: Either they're slim with a sharper face, or they are buff with visibly more pronounced chin and jaw line. > > Again, as I had edited into the post within the first minute of posting it but you somehow missed it, buff male archetype only has a larger variance because it has a crossover with monster male champ; that is where champs like Sion and Mundo sit in this. > > Which is exactly why, and with other factors considered, I said the problem is the lack of tendency to push female champs to be monsters or faceless that's the root of the problem. > > if Riot is more willing to have more faceless and monster female characters, there will be more female versions of Shen, Zed, and Pantheon, more Rek'Sai, and more female Nasus or Azir, and more female Malzahar, Kassadin, or Jax. The lack of them is where the problem lies, not characters with similar builds are made using a base template to design them. I just disagree with all of that. Female faces have a wide range of shapes and characteristics. The _real_ issue is whenever riot has _actually_ represented that range with females the lol community gets upset. Its because they're not marketable. They can't risk making too many illaoi's or non v-shaped, dainty nosed females because they wont make them as much money. Thats the actual reason. I wont agree with you when you say womens faces don't have much variance. Thats _ridiculous_. Its false. Its not real life. Its okay though the downvotes will pour in cuz truth hurts. My point remains absolutely unequivocally true.
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TheDevice

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