Voldymort (EUNE)
: >Make it so that you need even more games under your belt to enter ranked. What if you needed 200 games in normals before you could enter ranked? i haven't made a new account in 3 years but i'd assume that 200 normals isn't much of a difference from however many you need now... >Or that plus at least five champions you have rank 5 masteries in. you realise that being mastery 7 with a champion doesn't mean that you've mastered said champion, right? for example, the {{champion:74}} with [the most mastery points in the world](http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=getcontrolled) ,almost 7 million, is currently in **bronze 4** >There are ways. keep em coming then...!
for one, that was a number off the top of my head. whatever amount that made it look less attractive will do. as for the heimer main, so what? Just because you can cherry pick one guy who's skill doesn't reflect his mastery doesn't do much. The idea is that, the majority of people who put time into a champ will have a better idea of it than people with little to no experience. "keep em coming then..." I'd rather not. Judging by your previous responses you're just going to let your own bias in favor or smurfs fuel any kind of counter argument you can scrap together.
Voldymort (EUNE)
: i'd like to know how you think they could stop people from making new accounts if they at some point decided to do so hm?
Make it more unattractive to do so. Make it so that you need even more games under your belt to enter ranked. What if you needed 200 games in normals before you could enter ranked? Or that plus at least five champions you have rank 5 masteries in. There are ways.
Voldymort (EUNE)
: my bad. i read the first paragraph and assumed it was the same "riot bans people because money" rant that i keep seeing on these boards. Regardless,... smurfing is not illegal, nor should it be.
Of course not. Riot has to keep its figures up right? Cant show those impressive account growth figures to their investors if people stop making new accounts now can they? So what if it fucks with the ranking system.
Voldymort (EUNE)
: when riot bans an account, it's their way of saying "we don't want you playing our game anymore! gtfo!" they can't prevent you from making a new account or using your wallet on it because you just had to have that skin and couldn't be bothered to wait for it to popup in the hextech chests. i like how this "they're doing it for the money" rethoric ignores the fact that the majority of people who play the game abide by the rules and don't get banned. you'd think that their "let's make money" scheme would work better if more than 0.0006% of the population had that happen to them...
who's talking about banning? I never said anything about banning. Im talking about smurfing and making new accounts and how that fucks the game up. Why are you talking about banning? Good, ban people idc. Actually, thats another reason for them to ban actually. IF they ban, the player has to make a new account... thus boosting their "new accounts" figures thanks
Rioter Comments
: I just did in my other post tho lol
Where? Thats just a link to another link. Post the quote and the direct link to the quote.
: 1.- No I didn't, you are putting words in my mouth. Lazy/bad/overcomplicated game desing =/=busted. If you look at most certainly T champs they are frequent visitors to the patch notes, precisely because of crap like that. 2.-https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/6x0n10/riot_we_have_a_task_to_figure_out_how_to_best/ I mean, did you even know what mid season and the bot lane rework was about? lol smh 3.- What? just what? Riven E works of AD because she is a skirmisher and that way she is encouraged to build AD and have some durability while being aggresive and not tanky. All skirmishers (ekko, yi, trynda, fiora, camille) have some sort of similar durability built into them. The diffenence between all those characters and yasuo (also a skirmisher) is that they intertwine those abilities during their combos. Yasuo only has his durability so that he can lane mid... You are mixing oranges and apples 4.- Zoe's bubble reset was removed after like 2 patches because it was bad game design LOL
> [{quoted}](name=DeadUnborn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h4FfuneQ,comment-id=000800000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-18T02:15:36.693+0000) > > 1.- No I didn't, you are putting words in my mouth. Lazy/bad/overcomplicated game desing =/=busted. If you look at most certainly T champs they are frequent visitors to the patch notes, precisely because of crap like that. > > 2.-https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/6x0n10/riot_we_have_a_task_to_figure_out_how_to_best/ > > I mean, did you even know what mid season and the bot lane rework was about? lol smh I'm pretty sure it was about people complaining all day about lack of diversity and how the game revolved too heavily around ADC's. IDK. Why don't you tell me. Then tell me how it relates to CT designs. > 3.- What? just what? Riven E works of AD because she is a skirmisher and that way she is encouraged to build AD and have some durability while being aggresive and not tanky. Congrats thats called synergy. You just described a champion whos kit compliments itself and diminishes its own weak points. >All skirmishers (ekko, yi, trynda, fiora, camille) have some sort of similar durability built into them. And? It synergzes with their kits. Here's one: Mages weakness is their lack of mobility. I guess whoever made Ahri should also be held under questioning. Right? Its not that her mobility is just a defining factor in her design, its something that goes against the grain of what I think mages should be and what their weaknesses should be thus is a flawed design. Vlad also. > The diffenence between all those characters and yasuo (also a skirmisher) is that they intertwine those abilities during their combos. Yasuo only has his durability so that he can lane mid... Great, you just discovered his _real_ weakness instead of making up your own. his only durability is in laning phase, in teamfights, if he gets focused, he blows up. > You are mixing oranges and apples Just a blanked statement that has no real value. > 4.- Zoe's bubble reset was removed after like 2 patches because it was bad game design LOL And? Lots of champions have had their kits changed becuase of bad design. Yi actually had more AP in his kit. Some champions are completely reworked. Whats your point? Also, that change has nothing to do with her design. That was just an overbearing mechanic that was removed which has happened to _loads_ of champions.
: never said he was busted, just that CT covered his weaknesses... oh and range counter melee early, doesn't aren't my expectations but fact. My point is that CT especifically introduces champ mecanics so that his champs arent weak against something they should be weak against otherwise. Said mechanics dont flow with the kit otherwise Yasuo passive shield and W don't flow with Q, E and R Zoe bubble resets don't flow with her burst pattern Kalista dashes don't flow with her theme of depending on supports obscured on akali doesn't make sense as invis is literally the same thing but has a counter
> snip Give me a quote of any Rioter who's said Yasuo is _supposed_ to be weak vs ranged. Any Rioter.
: never said he was busted, just that CT covered his weaknesses... oh and range counter melee early, doesn't aren't my expectations but fact. My point is that CT especifically introduces champ mecanics so that his champs arent weak against something they should be weak against otherwise. Said mechanics dont flow with the kit otherwise Yasuo passive shield and W don't flow with Q, E and R Zoe bubble resets don't flow with her burst pattern Kalista dashes don't flow with her theme of depending on supports obscured on akali doesn't make sense as invis is literally the same thing but has a counter
> [{quoted}](name=DeadUnborn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h4FfuneQ,comment-id=0008000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-18T01:57:18.126+0000) > > never said he was busted, You don't have to say it, you're clearly implying that he is a broken champion (not saying he's overpowered but that he's fundamentally flawed) because he doesn't do things the way you think he should be doing them. >just that CT covered his weaknesses... oh and range counter melee early, doesn't aren't my expectations but fact. My point is that CT especifically introduces champ mecanics so that his champs arent weak against something they should be weak against otherwise. Said mechanics dont flow with the kit otherwise You are saying he should be weak against it, not CT, and not riot. You are. He is, in fact, designed to _counter_ ranged champions. You're not understanding that. > Yasuo passive shield and W don't flow with Q, E and R Rivens E works off of AD. And? Why doesn't it work off of AP or health like every other champion? Why do her skills lower the cooldown of other skills? You mentioned "flow".. yes. Yasuo is supposed to flow. > Zoe bubble resets don't flow with her burst pattern Sounds like good design to me. A champion who's skills compliment each other. Wow. Revolutionary. Darius can pull people and then dunk them. I suppose he's broken now too? Taliyah has lots of cc to compliment her stiff directional Q. Wow. we can go all day describing how champions skills synergize with the rest of their kit for days.
: LOL I agree CT designed the champ to not be weak against ranged, that is my whole point xd
You're saying he's meant to be vulnerable to ranged simply because he's melee, which are all your own expectations, so now he's busted because he's not. You've created your own _expectations_ which do not reflect the actual game and argue that riot is not meeting these contrived parameters. {{champion:103}} is a ranged mage who is far less susceptible to melee champions than {{champion:101}} because of her mobility. In fact, I could make the same argument in saying that mages weakness is their mobility. Completely an idea of my own making and not at all reflective of Riots design philosophy. You also countered your own logic by saying "Mages are somebody who's weak to people getting on their face" .... oh.. like a _melee champion_? You also have champions like {{champion:266}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:150}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:105}} who are far less susceptible to being bullied by ranged champions than others. Thats not an accident. It's intentional. Again, melee isn't a design. It's just a single part of a whole design. The design is the fantasy, the theme, and the purpose of that champion. Your r/p/s expectations are irrelevant.
: Mmm, whut? My original statement is melee champs are supposed to be weak against ranged but yasuo was designed to counter range so he wudn't be weak against it.... people here do not know how to read
Just like Kassadin is supposed to be weak against ranged champions? You don't understand the point. The _intention_ of Yasuo's design was to be strong against ranged champions. Melee isn't a champion design. Melee is an aspect of a champion design.
: Just played Akali - Here are my thoughts:
I find it funny how so many people will upvote Doublelifts video about a rapidly evolving game and its shortcoming while at the same time, jumping on a bandwagon to a call a champion OP _before its even released_. If you really agreed with what DL said in that video, you shouldn't want Riot to make sudden changes to the kit based on the limited playtesting done. Why not let it hit live, give it time, let people play with and against it to truly determine if it is as strong as people say. It might take _time_ for players to develop a counter. Isn't that what DL's entire point was about premature balance changes?
: yeah, since you bring champ class weaknesses up: Mages counter is someone getting on their face so Zoe at launch had E refund so she could CC them and then get to use her whole combo a little while later Melees counter is ranged early game, so Yasuo gets a shield and windwall to nulify that ADCs weakness is someone getting on their face, so kalista gets perma dashes to deny that Divers weakness is being kited, so WW gets a lock on ability to stop that. Stealth Assassin's weakness is true sight, so Akali gets to not bother about it ------------------------------------------------ You see the pattern there? It is pretty obvious IMO. And again I am not discussing whether each champ is broken or not, just that CT likes to cover his champs weaknesses ----------------------------------------------- Yasuo for example, was built to counter ranged just so he could sit mid lane because that is where certainly T wanted him. He was built to cover his weaknesses and counter two whole champion classes by sheer BS design (pasisve shield and W lasting so long). Also your whole argument falls apart because he was also "designed" to be weak early game and farm up to scale by mid game. We all know how that turned out...
>Also your whole argument falls apart because he was also "designed" to be weak early game and farm up to scale by mid game. only that wasn't my argument. My argument is that he was meant to counter ranged champs mid. You just admitted that but at the same time defend your original statement. You're not doing a good job at being consistent, man lol. You've already decided that there is only one side to this so further conversations are pointless.
: hmmm I was gonna refute your examples but they are really silly and not comparable. You are not even identifying each of the champs weaknesses (Only GP is valid but he is still weak against burts and tankiness) Vayne, Twitch Graves and Riven doesn't make sense really. You just cite base stats as counter weaknesses
For one, as it's been stated, yasuo was designed to be _strong_ against ranged opponents, not weak. I'm sure its difficult to see my point when you're obviously confused about the intentions and even weaknesses of the kits themselves. When describing what you think is their weak point, also consider what is their strong point. Also consider how those weaknesses may be overcome, usually only briefly, through their kit. Again, twitch is very vulnerable, he has no hard cc and only a little bit of ms. If he didn't have his stealth, not only would he not fit the theme of an assassin mutant rat, but he'd be would not succeed in that area because his weaknesses would be too easily exploited. Why do assassins who have low health (a weakness) also have high mobility and escapes, sometimes full on stealth? Its because you have to be able to give them some _wiggle room_ to be successful at their job and as a champion in general.
: Lissandra has a new passive
Wow thats awesome lol
: Her new Smokescreen is more of a weakness than a strength. No Dash on it, and it's MUCH easier to hit skill shots in, since the center is hollow, and the outer walls are about the width of most skill shots.
its actually a really clever design. It forces the akali to make somewhat predictable movements.
Ralanr (NA)
: Yasuo was built to be good into ranged.
WW was built to stick to people Kalista was built to be a skirmisher glad some people understand lol
: Certainly T loves to cover his champs weaknesses
- **Twitch **has invisibility and ranged attacks that offset his **_low health_** (weakness) - **Graves **has lots of built-in defensive stats to offset his **_short range_** (weakness) - **Vayne **has a short dash, stealth and hard cc to offset her **_short range and low health_** (weakness) - **Gangplank **has a built-in cleanse and aoe-slows to offset his **_low mobility_** (weakness) - **Riven **has a low-cooldown shield that works off her AD which offsets her **_would-be low durability and low base defensive stats_** (weakness) I can go on for days showing how so many champions have built-in mechanics to band-aid their glaring weaknesses.
DaCurtis (OCE)
: This system wouldn't add more damage to the game, it would shift the damage (already in the rune pages btw) to whatever combination the player wants. In fact, this would reduce the damage in the game, because I'm proposing the option to take resistance runes again.
DaCurtis (OCE)
: Create a Third Rune Slot for Base Stats!
I dont get it.. people have been complaining about the damage in the game but are upvoting more potential damage in the game. And for why? Like why would you do this? Its more more balancing hassle.
: Nothing you said refutes the points I made. Good job, please go away now.
The first thing i said refutes your point that its "not free". You literally don't have to spend money on it............ thus its free. Maybe you don't understand the concept of free. Sorry if you're upset that some people are not taking your nonsensical drivel seriously.
: I hate her new model/art completely. I miss the double kama. I don't get that weird junk she's wearing on her butt. I hate the tattoos. I'm seriously starting not to like riot's art team.
> [{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=WvX1E8Xv,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-07-16T17:03:19.515+0000) > > I hate her new model/art completely. > > I miss the double kama. I don't get that weird junk she's wearing on her butt. I hate the tattoos. I'm seriously starting not to like riot's art team. only thing i agree with is the big thing on her butt. Not sure what that is but it sorta throws off the whole sleek ninja feel.
: > [{quoted}](name=Rexxiee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bYGJww2E,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-07-15T20:16:20.531+0000) > > No counterplay, except for : > > Dodging his Q and/or interrupting its cast > Dodging his E > Waiting his ult out and kiting him > Passive that is visible that you can play around (you know exactly when he can or not revive, while the new one just presses R for a free one) > W that can only be damaging tool OR sustain, never both at the same time. > > Basically nothing right? Literally his whole kit except his W/autos had counterplay, he did not need to be removed from the game. > > The new aatrox kit is fine, but it should have been a new champ as old aatrox was a well designed champ. Not to mention if the enemy bought a Grievous Wounds item you were literally useless for the rest of the game.
so... why have a champion in the game if his entire kit can be countered by one item?
: First of all, its not free. Players collective pay. Some pay little, some pay none, some pay more. Riot makes money because players play the game. Free, it is not. So lets not use that tired old excuse. Second, what they should do is let us know what their goal is. I mean really, what are they trying to achieve, as a whole, with metrics, when they talk about balancing the game. I think they actually are basically doing it randomly. They play whack-a-mole. They hit one, knowing that they are going to make more pop up which they will have to hit, and so on. And lets not kid ourselves. There have been many times when Riot makes a change, and the community IMMEDIATELY points out, based on a casual observation, that this change will be broken on x champion. And then it take them 5 months to finally fix it. So don't pretend that they are smarter or do more analysis. Because, the results show otherwise far too often
> [{quoted}](name=DarkRaynger,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OceEzpIl,comment-id=0024000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-15T15:52:20.801+0000) > First of all, its not free. Players collective pay. Some pay little, some pay none, some pay more. Riot makes money because players play the game. Free, it is not. So lets not use that tired old excuse. WOW. Its not free. You are delusional, im sorry. Nobody has to buy skins. Its not required. This is getting pathetic. > Second, what they should do is let us know what their goal is. I mean really, what are they trying to achieve, as a whole, with metrics, when they talk about balancing the game. I think they actually are basically doing it randomly. They play whack-a-mole. They hit one, knowing that they are going to make more pop up which they will have to hit, and so on. If you honestly and wholeheartedly believe a multi million dollar company is doing shit randomly, you're quite difficult to take seriously. > And lets not kid ourselves. There have been many times when Riot makes a change, and the community IMMEDIATELY points out, based on a casual observation, that this change will be broken on x champion. And then it take them 5 months to finally fix it. So don't pretend that they are smarter or do more analysis. Because, the results show otherwise far too often because its not always true. Sometimes it is, sometimes its not. Riot prefers live play and allow extensive testing with the entirety of their playerbase to be sure.
Iamgeyer (NA)
: Getting one shot against assassins versus getting one shot against mages
The mage circlejerk on these forums is actually impressive.
Ahpe (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Subject 5,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kUA6mBxI,comment-id=000000000002,timestamp=2018-07-14T22:00:26.010+0000) > > More than 3/4 of those picks aren't even tanks what Who? Supports can be tanks. Singed is tank. Volibear is technically a freight train but he's only ever built like a tank. All these champions are extremely effective at being Vanguards and/or Wardens.
All those champions are tanks for sure. Voli might be considered a juggernaut to some people.
: >No, it makes bruisers relevant throughout. Except bruisers were already relevant in SoloQ even pre-Conqueror. >No he isn't. Nope. Sorry. Mundo is a tank. If Mundo is a bruiser then Graves is a bruiser, Malzahar is a bruiser, Annie is a bruiser, actually anyone I feel like calling a bruiser for the sake an argument is a bruiser. But Graves is a Bruiser. Bruisers=Fighters=Divers and Juggernauts. Mundo and Graves are Juggernauts and thus, are Bruisers, although Graves leans more towards the Specialist class due to being part-Marksman. Just because a champion builds a shit-ton of defense doesn´t mean they´re a tank. A Cassiopeia with this build {{item:3001}} {{item:3075}} {{item:3742}} {{item:3065}} {{item:3193}} {{item:3083}} is still a Battle Mage, not a tank.
Graves isn't a juggernaut nor a bruiser. He's just a specialist. If he's a bruiser, than anyone who's midly tanky who also does damage is also a bruiser. Again, you just call whatever you want a bruiser to make a point. I never said anything about builds. The only way Mundo can ever be a bruiser is if he was half as damage absorbant as he is. The way his kit is, he's just a better olaf. He has early game, mid game, and late game presence. He can carry, tank, dive and do anything he wants. Thats doesn't make him a bruiser, that makes him outdated.
: This is a man who has on stream... jumped into 3 people as jax, killed one of them, but then couldn't kill the adc after the first person and dies 1v3 so he goes on a 15 minute rant about how broken adc's are. Listening to hashinshin is dangerous, he has an agenda, the stronger bruisers are the better for him. He gives no shits about the overall state of the game, he only wants his playstyle to be strong.
The same goes for any ADC streamer like Tyler1 then. Ive seen tyler make poor decisions. Hell, I've even seen qtie and dlift make bad decisions. I've seen every streaming adc in the game bitch hard about getting caught out of position and dying to assassins. I suppose that means assassins are always fine and should never be nerfed due to ADC's (streamers or otherwise) complaining about getting 100-0.
: Gratitude? For attracting players to a great game only to pull the rug out from under us later on?
For having a free game. For providing players endless hours of entertainment in-game and out. For having one of the most community-interactive development teams in online game history. For that team, on multiple occasions, directly changing the game due to player feedback. For consistent content updates. Any of these ring a bell or are you so spoiled rotten you can't even acknowledge any of it? Maybe you just expect everyone to be happy about the state of the game always. Its a big playerbase, so its not even realistic to believe that. >Literally so many examples show how Riot doesn't know what to do and just does it randomly and regrets it later. Tell them, oh wise one, what should they do? They only have a team full of people working around the clock trying to please everyone. What is your solution? Because Riot isn't doing it randomly. You say that out of exasperation due to the game not fitting your exact needs at this time. Do you just not like assassins? Well no shit, nobody likes assassins. People like the fantasy of assassins, not the functionality of them. Assassins are bitched about when they are able to delete adc's in later stages of the game. ADC's are just pampered for the most part. Also lots of people dont like ADCs so they bitch about adc's being "all over the place". Then Riot tones them down and then ADC's jump on boards and bitch about not being able to run rampant like they used to. Then tanks get demolished by assassins and point their fingers at bruisers who've up until now have been actual dog shit. Mages want to ALWAYS WIN MID and never run into any counters ever despite riot having buffed them in many areas such as damage to towers and stats across the board. People bitch because of SYNDRA, thats it. If not EVERY Single mage is viable, none of them are apparently.
: > [{quoted}](name=TheDevice,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kUA6mBxI,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-07-14T03:57:30.069+0000) > > Yeah. Sometimes Hashinshin makes sense. This really makes sense. I mean he reaaalllly makes a lot of sense here. 8:49 holy cow that's accurate lol. Such little actual love for bruisers in this game. > > 15:20 LOL!!!!!! how is his statement in 8:49 bs? Tanks were the best picks since season 6 up until now.
I didn't say any of it was bs. ?? Did you think I was being sarcastic?
heroikc (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=TheDevice,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ldgl19LM,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-14T17:59:17.519+0000) > > That analogy is incompatible. "because they are overused or because they grant many victories". They were never used thus never won them victories. Conq _IS_ being used and we can track those victories and its not outstanding. It's not enough to warrant nerfs plain and simple. > > What does that have to do with Conquerers or Bruisers? Name a bruiser that uses those items. It was the threat of them that prevented WW3 and only restricted the superpowers to engaging in proxy wars. Conqueror stifles tanks and restricts them to blindpick, aram,etc. And true damage is the answer; it's always true damage that's the issue. Wukong uses Stormrazor, Garen can abuse IE, Quinn uses both, wouldn't surprise me if Kayle would use it too.
Quinn nor Kayle are bruisers. Nobody cares about WW3 in this conversation. All you've done is said conq is equivalent to nuclear weapons as if its true. Tanks are still being played, tanks don't even have bad winrates, people who use conq do not have high winrates, so the threat you think is coming from bruisers and conq is misplaced. Conq allows bruisers to be RELEVANT. They can actually hurt tanks now, in and outside of lane. It's far different from them demolishing tanks. If they removed conq all together, guess what would happen? Bruisers would go back to having ZERO relevance on the game, and tanks would feel as though they can win with impunity AGAIN (in lane). Again, outside of lane they are getting worked by mages, hypercarries and assassins. You just **think** its conq. You have no actual PROOF its conq if all your doing is looking at "true damage" and saying "too op vs tanks". Tank players just don't want RESISTANCE. They don't want to feel threatened by bruisers AT ALL. They want to farm in lane forever, win lane, then go and win teamfights and stay completely relevant throughout the entire game while bruisers are never picked because they don't bring the same utility as tanks do. This isn't even an argument. It's like most "omg so broken" threads. Now that bruisers are RELEVANT, tanks cant get away with playing like shit and still winning because of imbalance. Now that bruisers are relevant, tanks actually have to play smart in lane and can't free farm to victory like they used to. If you want a real analogy, think of bruisers having been weighed down by ankle weights vs tanks who've had no handicaps. Once Riot removed those weights from bruisers, the spoiled tanks now cry because they cant win those matchups as easy as they could before. So they want nerfs.
: >Tanks are not getting destroyed by bruisers. Except they are. In lane, out of it. Bruisers can just plow through all the resistances tanks build because of Conqueror's true damage. >First off, Mundo is the best top laner in the game; USES GRASP and laughs at bruisers with his EZ mode scaling. Mundo isn´t a tank though. He's a Bruiser. A Juggernaut, to be precise.
>Except they are. In lane, out of it. Bruisers can just plow through all the resistances tanks build because of Conqueror's true damage. No, it makes bruisers relevant throughout. >Mundo isn't a tank though. He's a Bruiser. No he isn't. Nope. Sorry. Mundo is a tank. If Mundo is a bruiser then Graves is a bruiser, Malzahar is a bruiser, Annie is a bruiser, actually anyone I feel like calling a bruiser for the sake an argument is a bruiser.
heroikc (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=TheDevice,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ldgl19LM,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-14T06:36:25.341+0000) > > Beautiful, now look at the WIN% for those > > Kled win% = **51%** > > Fiora win% = **49%** > > Aatrox win% = **46% (LOLOLO)** > > Riven win% = **49%** > > Darius win% = **48%** > > NONE OF THESE CHAMPIONS ARE IN THE TOP 5 FOR HIGHEST WIN%, KLED ONLY COMES CLOSE. > > These are the TOP 5 champions in top lane. **THEY DO NOT BUILD CONQUERERS**: > > QUINN > WUKONG > GAREN > YORICK > KAYLE > > What does this even mean? Like, the possibility!? Are we actually going to nerf based on _"maybe's"_ and _"what if's"_? Well we certainly didn't go for disarming nuclear arms in the SALT treaties with Russia because they are overused or because they grant many victories, but because of the threat of them. Same concept. It's not the fact they are in the top ranks that make them dangerous to tanks, but the fact they can grab conqueror in response to tanks. As for the top 5....I wonder how many build that new Infinity Edge and Stormrazor....you know the combo that doesn't rely on actual crit chance to do true damage?
That analogy is incompatible. "because they are overused or because they grant many victories". They were never used thus never won them victories. Conq _IS_ being used and we can track those victories and its not outstanding. It's not enough to warrant nerfs plain and simple. >I wonder how many build that new Infinity Edge and Stormrazor What does that have to do with Conquerers or Bruisers? Name a bruiser that uses those items.
: Aatrox: When is this going to be fixed? League of Top laners is getting old.
Aatrox has a 46% winrate https://champion.gg/champion/Aatrox/Top?league= He's already getting power shuffled in his kit, lowering it early and adding it late. https://www.surrenderat20.net/p/current-pbe-balance-changes.html
: Doesn't Mundo take Conqueror?
No, he takes Grasp of the Undying. https://champion.gg/champion/DrMundo/Top?league=platplus
heroikc (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=TheDevice,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ldgl19LM,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-07-14T06:06:33.131+0000) > > It's not because of conquerers though. Its actually not. > > Tell me: Which champions are using conquerers? Let me clarify; it's the _threat_ of Conqueror. Also, Kled, Fiora, Aatrox, Darius, Yasuo, Riven, Yi, Trynd, just to name a few candidates.
Beautiful, now look at the WIN% for those Kled win% = **51%** Fiora win% = **49%** Aatrox win% = **46% (LOLOLO)** Riven win% = **49%** Darius win% = **48%** NONE OF THESE CHAMPIONS ARE IN THE TOP 5 FOR HIGHEST WIN%, KLED ONLY COMES CLOSE. These are the TOP 5 champions in top lane. **THEY DO NOT BUILD CONQUERERS**: QUINN WUKONG GAREN YORICK KAYLE >it's the threat of Conqueror What does this even mean? Like, the possibility!? Are we actually going to nerf based on _"maybe's"_ and _"what if's"_?
heroikc (NA)
: Because Conqueror is keeping tanks benched. No tanks means greater prevalence of assassins.
It's not because of conquerers though. Its actually not. Tell me: Which champions are using conquerers? All of what you and everyone else has done is read "true damage" and have placed all the blame on it without doing any **real** research.
Rioter Comments
: Aatrox
Nah actually {{champion:266}} = {{champion:266}}
: DONT NERF CONQUERER!
Yeah. Sometimes Hashinshin makes sense. This really makes sense. I mean he reaaalllly makes a lot of sense here. 8:49 holy cow that's accurate lol. Such little actual love for bruisers in this game. 15:20 LOL!!!!!!
Rioter Comments
: Soulbringer Aatrox
Seems cool but definitely would need more. Looks more like a chroma rather than a fully developed skin. Still, I'm on board with a soulbringer Aatrox.
: What's the point of making an "order" side in VS events?
Few other points to mention: 1. Bad guys usually lose. People may vote for the underdog. 2. Good guy aesthetics usually involve the same colors while bad guys have a wider range. 3. Good guy attitudes can be a tad simplistic. Mr./Mrs. Goodie Two-shoes who display little depth in character (tbf, bad guys can also have this issue). 4. A lot of people dislike holier-than-thou attitudes.
: Runes are boring, viable champion pool is small, no counterplay, game sucks @RIOT
: If you only give rewards to the winning side, people will pick the side they think is going to win, not the side they want.
This is kinda true actually. The funny part is, it might have been a more even outcome if people didn't already assume that the edgey character would win. It does kinda come down to aesthetic for most people, though.
: Why would you vote for endless war?
Probably because its a game and not real life dude
Acheron16 (EUW)
: Wait you telling me the guy's saying his favourite class is ok now that it is broken instead of complaining when his class was balanced?? Whadda ya know
Or, maybe people are claiming they're broken because now is not so easy to pay against them. While bruisers have been playing an underperforming class, they've had to play better and smarter than the people playing stronger classes. Now that the classes are a bit more even, non bruiser players still haven't adjusted and bruiser players, having been used to playing with a handicap, are now steamrolling the players who were used to playing with an edge.
: Why is Riot doing this?
Yeah I think the point is that ADC's can go everywhere (literally), but nobody is allowed to fill the bot role besides adc. Its been exclusive to only ADC for a very long time and everyone finds that a bit unfair/boring/static. Despite the boards, a lot of players embrace these changes like breaths of fresh air. (side rant) There are so many players on the boards making threads all like "Veteran player here and I dont like blah blah blah". There are a lot of people who just don't like change. They get used to something and they will play it the same way with the same everything over and over and over and over and over again. Change upsets these types of people. Really. The reality is that some change is always going to be good, even if its just shuffling power around (meta). The people who get angry and tell riot that they should have stopped making content or stopped making any changes from the point at which they felt most comfortable are, in my eyes, some of the most selfish people on the planet. Just because they've gotten used to it they are willing to promote halting all progress and future possibilities for the sake of their own comfort or nostalgia. No new idea or uncomfortable shifts in the game all just so they can selfishly cling on to what they know and would even be okay with the game collecting dust and falling out of popularity entirely, possibly sending it to an early grave. The best Riot can do is say "Sorry. I know this is going to feel uncomfortable but give it a try anyway". Im not saying all their changes or ideas were good/successful (i.e. deleting solo queue), but they've been doing a good job overall keeping it relevant and looking good.
Evalion (NA)
: BRUISERS ARENT BALANCED RIGHT NOW SOMEONE HAS TO SAY IT
How about you just talk about which champions you think are broken. Then compare them to the champs you think are not performing well. As far as I can tell, this is just a load of hyperbole. For somebody who apparently doesn't like Hashinshin, you sure do talk like him.
: Getting Hit By A Fully Charged Sion Q On the PBE Right Now Like
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/bokunoheroacademia/images/b/b7/United_States_Of_Smash.gif/revision/latest?cb=20180618050047 > **United States of** Smash (Q) Minimum damage increased from 30/48/65/83/100 to 30/50/70/90/110 minimum damage AD ratio increased from [45/50/55/60/65%] to [45/52.5/60/67.5/75%] Maximum damage increased from 90/143/195/248/300 to 90/150/210/270/330 maximum damage AD ratio increased from [135/150/165/180/195%] to [135/157.5/180/202.5/225%]
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TheDevice

Level 60 (NA)
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